Author Topic: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread  (Read 44248 times)

GhostBear

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"Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« on: 02 December 2015, 08:33:43 »
And picking up where we left off....
Eh.

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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #1 on: 02 December 2015, 08:48:46 »
*shoots GhostBear in the throat, since that's how SHIELD opens up nowadays.*
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #2 on: 02 December 2015, 08:51:48 »
*Breaks down the door with a death squad before the opening credits - while making a very earnest phone call. *
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #3 on: 02 December 2015, 09:17:04 »
*shoots GhostBear in the throat, since that's how SHIELD opens up nowadays.*

Very unexpected turn of events there. I didn't see that coming.
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #4 on: 02 December 2015, 09:19:16 »
OK, so last night...

(Obviously, spoilers abound, so either catch up on your DVR or skip this post... come on, most people skip my posts anyway, it isn't hard.)

+Phil, come on bruh. I mean, I sympathize, the lady you were seeing and kinda-working with (ish?) got shot in the throat while you were trying to enjoy a perfectly good burger. It happens to the best of us, really man. It goes without saying that you handled that VERY badly. You're throwing agents against walls, you're handing the keys to the whole organization to your mechanic (granted, I like Mack, but... really, THAT'S your pick?), you're leaping out of airplanes and diving headlong into a portal that isn't five feet wide (should have joined the circus with that trick!)... did you consider maybe behaving like a sane agent for a few instead of losing your everlasting shit like that? Now you're unconscious on some alien rock with no idea (when you wake up) where Ward's team went to begin with. Hope you took good notes from Simmons, dumbass- you're just as lost as she was now. (Worst of all, did you even finish your burger? Blind rage works up a pretty hefty appetite, and believe me, I'd know!)

+Bobbi's call to Phil that Hydra has SAMs locked on to the bird just before he jumped had me chuckling. If Hydra is firing SAMs with that kind of accuracy, you're making Stormtroopers look like snipers. For shame, Hydra. ;)

+Malik (sp?) is up to a lot more here than he's letting on, and Ward is uncharacteristically swallowing the bait he's put out. If I want Ward out of the way- wither as a threat to siphoning off my power base in Hydra, or just to keep him from stabbing all my organs in alphabetical order sometime if he's bored- I couldn't think of a better way than this. Make Ward think he's going to be a giant freaking hero to Hydra by going through the portal- if he comes back, he brings your 'messiah' figure with him and that's awesome. And if he doesn't... well, then he failed, and Malik now has control of Hydra again as well as anyone loyal previous to Ward (which Malik might not have been able to count on if he'd just had Ward killed). Win-win for Malik- and puts Ward in a very tough spot, literally. Then again, we've seen Ward put himself in bad places intentionally before, only to show he's playing a bigger game than anyone realizes (see: the entire first half of Season 1).

+Speaking of Ward, let's take a minute to appreciate the shot he took. That kind of distance? Even with the kind of technological treats a sniper rifle can probably gain from access to SHIELD/Hydra engineering, that's a heck of a shot. Bravo! (Of course, we'll also accept that network rules mean that the real effects of a shot hitting someone in the throat like that were watered down considerably. ;) )

+I get it, Fitz. We all do stupid things sometimes for someone we care about (see: Coulson, above), and hearing Gemma getting tortured in the next room had to be just awful for him, but... man, I'm not sure this was such a hot idea for him. We'll see how it goes. I guess if nothing else, if he wants to really get Ward back for that whole 'dumping you in the ocean' thing from season 1 (what, you're STILL mad about that? Move on, Fitz!), now's a pretty good opportunity.

+Lastly, while she was hardly in the episode, May had a very interesting line- her reading asset assessments and noting that she's not sure whether to take this as her husband's words, or Lash's. That right there explains at least why she didn't get the controls from Coulson when he abdicated the throne to Mack- Melinda is seriously questioning just about everything going on in her world right now, and getting handed SHIELD at a time when she's scared of her own shadow would have been a recipe for disaster.

+OK, one more thing. I've been going back through the first two seasons when I have time on Netflix, and it's interesting to see something in season 3 that we didn't see as much previously. Daisy/Skye? She was the focal point of the show in the first two seasons. Everything going on seemed to either revolve around her directly, or was a sideshow to her story. This year? It's not that she's become unimportant, but really think about this season compared to the previous two and it really is interesting how much of a backseat she's taken to people like Gemma and Bobby this year. Take last night- while she had brief appearances, they could have cut those completely from the episode and it wouldn't have changed the show much at all. Try removing her scenes from almost any Season 1 or 2 episode and there's not much left. Very interesting- granted, they told her story through those two seasons and that arc is over, so it makes sense in that regard, but it makes for a very interesting change to the show's dynamic.
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GreenDragon

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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #5 on: 02 December 2015, 09:52:10 »
I'd questioned Mack as well - but Daisy, Coulson's new right hand, is compromised regarding Ward.

Why didn't Ward suggest Malick go himself?

As for his shot.  His marks were comparable to Romanov in one area, and he was in line to make Level 8 eventually - with a cool code name like Mockingbird or Hawkeye.  I mention this because Clint could have made the shot with a bow and arrow.  But yeah, by real world standards, nice shot.

I also wondered about Ward revealing Malik's involvement with the Obelisk.  When I heard that the TWO agents who could be useful to Malik were going w/o any other main characters, I knew it was a trap.
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #6 on: 02 December 2015, 13:21:14 »
It's the Big Shake Up episode.

And Coulson really grabbed the Idiot Ball.
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #7 on: 02 December 2015, 16:28:29 »
Does make me wonder exactly where they're going to take the show as they seem to be writing themselves into a bit of a corner.

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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #8 on: 02 December 2015, 23:29:51 »
Just realized:  "Gideon Malik" is hebrew for "destroyer king"
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #9 on: 03 December 2015, 00:23:51 »
Very unexpected turn of events there. I didn't see that coming.

Which part.   Ros dying, or Phil dropping THROUGH the portal?

+Phil, come on bruh. I mean, I sympathize, the lady you were seeing and kinda-working with (ish?) got shot in the throat while you were trying to enjoy a perfectly good burger. It happens to the best of us, really man. It goes without saying that you handled that VERY badly. You're throwing agents against walls, you're handing the keys to the whole organization to your mechanic (granted, I like Mack, but... really, THAT'S your pick?), you're leaping out of airplanes and diving headlong into a portal that isn't five feet wide (should have joined the circus with that trick!)... did you consider maybe behaving like a sane agent for a few instead of losing your everlasting shit like that? Now you're unconscious on some alien rock with no idea (when you wake up) where Ward's team went to begin with. Hope you took good notes from Simmons, dumbass- you're just as lost as she was now. (Worst of all, did you even finish your burger? Blind rage works up a pretty hefty appetite, and believe me, I'd know!)

Grief does a lot of strange stuff to people, but of all the crew, Phil is the one i thought would be the most level headed..

+Bobbi's call to Phil that Hydra has SAMs locked on to the bird just before he jumped had me chuckling. If Hydra is firing SAMs with that kind of accuracy, you're making Stormtroopers look like snipers. For shame, Hydra. ;)

Maybe cause they were TOO close, the missiles couldn't track??  That's all i got.

+Speaking of Ward, let's take a minute to appreciate the shot he took. That kind of distance? Even with the kind of technological treats a sniper rifle can probably gain from access to SHIELD/Hydra engineering, that's a heck of a shot. Bravo! (Of course, we'll also accept that network rules mean that the real effects of a shot hitting someone in the throat like that were watered down considerably. ;) )

Also, why DIDN'T he just shoot Phil?

+I get it, Fitz. We all do stupid things sometimes for someone we care about (see: Coulson, above), and hearing Gemma getting tortured in the next room had to be just awful for him, but... man, I'm not sure this was such a hot idea for him. We'll see how it goes. I guess if nothing else, if he wants to really get Ward back for that whole 'dumping you in the ocean' thing from season 1 (what, you're STILL mad about that? Move on, Fitz!), now's a pretty good opportunity.

As i said up above, we saw what lengths Fitz will go to, to help Gemma out before..  So its not surprising here.

+Lastly, while she was hardly in the episode, May had a very interesting line- her reading asset assessments and noting that she's not sure whether to take this as her husband's words, or Lash's. That right there explains at least why she didn't get the controls from Coulson when he abdicated the throne to Mack- Melinda is seriously questioning just about everything going on in her world right now, and getting handed SHIELD at a time when she's scared of her own shadow would have been a recipe for disaster.

Very true.  May just seemed like all her rugs were pulled up from under her at once..
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #10 on: 03 December 2015, 03:10:52 »
Maybe cause they were TOO close, the missiles couldn't track??  That's all i got.
That would be my guess as well.  They were low enough, that a parachute was pointless.  What maybe 200'?
Quote
Also, why DIDN'T he just shoot Phil?
Probably didn't have the shot.  Plus, taunting before killing.  Its the Hydra way.  See John Garrett.  Only a bloodthirsty maniac like Pearce would kill all his potential enemies in one swift preemptive strike.  (I think Malik should have switched those two condemnations.)
« Last Edit: 03 December 2015, 03:12:36 by GreenDragon »
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #11 on: 03 December 2015, 03:26:41 »
Grant wants to prove that he's smarter than Phil.  He needs Phil alive in order to "win."
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #12 on: 03 December 2015, 04:15:59 »
Which part.   Ros dying, or Phil dropping THROUGH the portal?

Both, actually. But I meant Ros dying. Especially the way she did.
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #13 on: 03 December 2015, 09:16:39 »
Killing Ros vs. Phil is simple. Two things to remember:

1) Ward knows Coulson better than just about anyone else out there does, with the possible exception of May. He knows how to get in the guy's head. And Ward is still very, very upset about his squeeze from last season getting killed- so while shooting Coulson in the face would be satisfying, making Coulson go through the same pain Ward himself just went through probably seems a lot more poetic to Ward right now. Plus, where's the fun in just killing the guy anyway? This is Marvel- killing someone isn't as much fun as toying with them. Didn't we learn anything from Loki, Whiplash, Blomsky, etc.?

2) When Ward got home, Malik wasn't happy with him for Coulson almost getting killed by the hit squad after the sniper shot. Whatever Malik has planned long-term relies on Coulson being alive, it seems- which means Ward can't off Coulson just yet. Not until either Malik gives the okay to do so, or Malik is too dead to object to Ward going off-script anyway. (Of course, Malik also isn't on the alien world, so all bets are off now.)

Just realized:  "Gideon Malik" is hebrew for "destroyer king"

Well. THAT is rather ominous, isn't it? Good catch there!
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #14 on: 03 December 2015, 13:26:14 »
I thought the new director did his bit very well...

It's amazing all the stuff that guy has been through and he's still sticking with the team...
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #15 on: 03 December 2015, 13:52:12 »
Actually getting Phil to send the two scientists to get captured was Malick's plan and why Phil had to survive.

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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #16 on: 05 December 2015, 14:44:37 »
I guess Banks should have put down Hydra's telekinetic (Giyera?) last episode rather than just disabling him.  Oops.

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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #17 on: 05 December 2015, 16:20:54 »
So HYDRA is a long-term conspiracy from before Red Skull?

The whole Zola-getting-captured in Captain America: The First Avenger takes on an entirely new meaning now. He was the only Hydra agent to NOT use a cyanide pill when caught. (They made mention of this in the interrogation scene.)

Knowing that Zola ends up setting up Hydra inside SHIELD, one has to wonder if his capture was orchestrated by Red Skull, to ensure that one of the 'heads' survived in case his plan didn't...
Eh.

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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #18 on: 05 December 2015, 19:18:47 »
The Skull seemed a bit too arrogant to believe (and thus plan for) the possibility of his failure.  Most likely, Zola was working under the direction of a different Hydra head.
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #19 on: 05 December 2015, 19:26:08 »
Either way, it's very intriguing how it changes Zola's capture, whether Skull's machinations or someone elses.

I too had a thought about Hydra's long-term plans and existence... Zola's capture allowed him to set up Hydra as a cancer within SHIELD, utilizing its resources and undermining it from the inside. And it got me thinking... how often has that happened? We can safely assume that Hydra (via Skull) set up shop within the Nazi party much the same as they did with SHIELD. How far back does it go? What about Napoleon's France, for example? Hell, the Romans?

This really changes how the whole Hydra thing looks. I'm very intrigued by it.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #20 on: 05 December 2015, 20:54:40 »
i'm not sure that Zola's capture was intentional. i do suspect though that once he was captured He, or "Hydra", saw potential and exploited it for all it's worth.

given that we now know Hydra was a big thing even before WW2 and the skull, the Strategic Scientific Reserve may well have been infiltrated by "proto-hydra" since before the SSR even existed. i suspect Red Skull's Hydra was just one arm of a larger organization. perhaps a rogue arm at that, since the Red Skull clearly had wildly different goals than the group we're learning about now.

Project paperclip, in the marvel cinematic universe, may well have been set up by the other Hydra arms to preserve useful Red-skull-branch assets.
« Last Edit: 05 December 2015, 20:57:48 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #21 on: 05 December 2015, 22:55:48 »
Either way, it's very intriguing how it changes Zola's capture, whether Skull's machinations or someone elses.

I too had a thought about Hydra's long-term plans and existence... Zola's capture allowed him to set up Hydra as a cancer within SHIELD, utilizing its resources and undermining it from the inside. And it got me thinking... how often has that happened? We can safely assume that Hydra (via Skull) set up shop within the Nazi party much the same as they did with SHIELD. How far back does it go? What about Napoleon's France, for example? Hell, the Romans?

The Illuminati, the Freemasons, the Girl Scouts, boy bands, Baskin Robins' 32nd flavor...  Wait, wrong comic book TV show.
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #22 on: 05 December 2015, 23:24:37 »
The Illuminati, the Freemasons, the Girl Scouts, boy bands, Baskin Robins' 32nd flavor...  Wait, wrong comic book TV show.
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #23 on: 05 December 2015, 23:58:21 »
i'm not sure that Zola's capture was intentional. i do suspect though that once he was captured He, or "Hydra", saw potential and exploited it for all it's worth.

given that we now know Hydra was a big thing even before WW2 and the skull, the Strategic Scientific Reserve may well have been infiltrated by "proto-hydra" since before the SSR even existed. i suspect Red Skull's Hydra was just one arm of a larger organization. perhaps a rogue arm at that, since the Red Skull clearly had wildly different goals than the group we're learning about now.

Project paperclip, in the marvel cinematic universe, may well have been set up by the other Hydra arms to preserve useful Red-skull-branch assets.

To me, it is being done as a retcon, not planned, but it does make sense in a way for Hydra to have existed for a lot longer than just with the Red Skull..  That way Hydra in the time of WW2 could have operated covertly with everone focused ON the skull.

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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #24 on: 06 December 2015, 01:13:23 »
To me, it is being done as a retcon, not planned...

It's not retroactive continuity, though. Just seeing something with a slightly different view.

(I doubt the writers planned this all out so far in advance; more like they're doing what we do here, in taking something established and putting a slightly different spin on it to make the scene have more meaning than before. That isn't a retcon. It's just taking advantage of story points to make the universe richer.)
Eh.

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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #25 on: 06 December 2015, 10:41:47 »
Unless it is an actual change of what was written to make it "the way it should be" in the eyes of those who are writing it now.  Then it is a retcon.

Of course sometimes there are divergent sources where one source said one thing and another said something else.  Where did the Last Star Lord of the Star League die for instance?  Then you have to either pick one and go with it, or perhaps come up with an idea why both might be right...or both wrong...or whatever.  A "Darth Vader killed your father" kind of thing.  It all depends on your point of view.

This in my opinion is an addition to the universe that adds an interesting twist to what we knew before without actually changing any of it.  The truth as we knew it was from Red Skull's point of view.  Now we know the truth from the point of view of someone who did not follow Red Skull...Maybe there are more points of view in Hydra...;)
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #26 on: 06 December 2015, 16:31:25 »
It would be interesting to hear from the designers to see if they DID plan this out...
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #27 on: 06 December 2015, 16:34:50 »
I don't see how they could have- Agents of SHIELD wasn't planned when the first Captain America movie was released.
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #28 on: 07 December 2015, 01:11:21 »
I don't see how they could have- Agents of SHIELD wasn't planned when the first Captain America movie was released.

How do you know?  Didn't they pencil in the plan for phase 1 through 3??
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Re: "Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread
« Reply #29 on: 07 December 2015, 01:21:00 »
For the movies, yes.  My understanding was that Agents of SHIELD was due to Coulson being an unexpectedly popular character.
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