"Doctor Who -- Series 6 Part 2" Discussion

[Lore]

I'm assuming the "Sixth Series" set includes the 2010 Christmas Special?

I only ask, because I'm usually inclined to watch all the previous Christmas Special before the next one airs, like the 2011 Special, for example. ;D

[Ruger]

I'm assuming the "Sixth Series" set includes the 2010 Christmas Special?

I only ask, because I'm usually inclined to watch all the previous Christmas Special before the next one airs, like the 2011 Special, for example. ;D

It does. According to the list on the back, it is the first show in the boxed set...

Other special features include 5 x "Night and the Doctor" additional scenes, 2 x "Comic Relief" sketches/commentaries, 4 x "The Monster Files", 5 x Prequels/Trailers, 14 x "Doctor Who Confidential", and "Doctor Who Confidential: A Night's Tale"...

Ruger

[Ruger]

It does. According to the list on the back, it is the first show in the boxed set...

Other special features include 5 x "Night and the Doctor" additional scenes, 2 x "Comic Relief" sketches/commentaries, 4 x "The Monster Files", 5 x Prequels/Trailers, 14 x "Doctor Who Confidential", and "Doctor Who Confidential: A Night's Tale"...

Ruger

BTW, the "Night and the Doctor" minis were great...I especially loved the one titled "The Last Night"...

I've watched a goodly portion of the DVD's so far...the 2010 Christmas Special is the only title (with an hour long Confidential on it) on the first disc...the second has the first three eps of the season with the "Time" and "Space" minis, and some other extras...the third has the next three episodes and the "Night and the Doctor" minis...the fourth disc has 4 episodes (IIRC), the fifth has the last three episodes (both with extras) and the sixth disc is all extras...

Ruger

[Lore]

I missed the "Night and the Doctor" minis, so I'm intrigued enough to catch up on them...

[Wombat]

Along the same token, I wonder with Season 6 is going to hit Netflix instant?

[Ruger]

Well, we have all day of Doctor Who today, it looks like...until it culminates at 8 PM with the "Best of the Christmas Specials" special...then tomorrow, we get all of season 6, followed by "The Doctor, the Witch and the Wardrobe" at 9PM...

Finally, more new Doctor Who...

Ruger

[Lorcan Nagle]

It's gonna be a long wait for the new series though, I believe they're moving back to airing in the autumn.

[GreenDragon]

I've read that as well.  And Amy and Rory are not only not supposed to be returning, but their final departure is supposed to be "heartbreaking."  >:(

[Lorcan Nagle]

I don't really mind the move to autumn airings - being a fan of the show since the 80s I remember watching it when it was dark out and extra-spooky.  If Amy and Rory have to go, I hope it's a good story and not one that gets watered down with extra bits (Like Rose and to a lesser degree Donna's exits)

[GreenDragon]

My thought is, why do they need a send-off?  After Ian and Barbara left the TARDIS, they were out of the TARDIS.  We didn't need to have an episode to know what happens to them after that.  (Which btw, proves that Amy and Rory may be the first ones to get married while traveling with the Doctor, but they aren't the first couple in the TARDIS by about ten regenerations.)

[Lorcan Nagle]

I thnk a lot of it is down to changes in audience expectations in TV - the same way the show itself is mostly self-contained 45-minutes episodes intead of serials now.  A lot of people want everything to be tied up in a neat little package when a character leaves.  And of course, it meight be how DAvies and Moffat prefer to write characters out.

[Belisarius]

Davies didn't have to write characters out in a special episode until the end of Tennant's tenure. Each arch was neatly self contained in its own right (in addition to the episodes being self-contained). The Doctor's farewell was just icing on the cake. Saying a special farewell to Rory and Amy strikes me as a way of saying "I know people feel like something's unfinished, so here I am finishing something". Which of course is poppycock because their storyline is as resolved as it can be without them dying horribly. Once again, I fear, I am not looking forward to a Moffat episode of the Doctor.

[GreenDragon]

I thnk a lot of it is down to changes in audience expectations in TV - the same way the show itself is mostly self-contained 45-minutes episodes intead of serials now.  A lot of people want everything to be tied up in a neat little package when a character leaves.  And of course, it meight be how DAvies and Moffat prefer to write characters out.

Moffatt said in an interview, that since the cost for a part 2 is the same as a separate episode, but separate episodes have more drawing power (explains all those sequels in Hollywood - not), next year will be entirely one shots.

[Jaim Magnus]

So finished watching 'The Doctor the Widow and the Wardrobe'   

Same problem I have with all Moffets stuff.  Story was meh.  Characterization of the Doctor was good.  I keep telling myself 'one day it will get better, yes, one day it will get better.'

[Belisarius]

Characterization of the Doctor was good.  I keep telling myself 'one day it will get better, yes, one day it will get better.'

I just had a conversation with my wife and father-in-law on this very subject. I think that the problem that we (my family) is having with respect to Moffat's Doctor is that he switched the characters of the companion and the Doctor from Tennant/Davies' tenure. During Tennant, the Doctor was outspoken and bouncy, energetic and fun and the companion was the 'straight girl' getting to experience this huge universe that the Doctor lives in. In Moffat's Doctor, the Doctor is quiet and brooding (with a few notable moments of hilarity) and Amy Pond is the one who's outspoken and hilarious (most of the time). This has led many of us to see Amy as outshining the Doctor (because she's more the kind of character we enjoy watching) and now we'll see the show as having lost something important when Amy leaves.

Hopefully, the Doctor becomes more vibrant once Amy leaves or they find a new companion with the same verve as Amy. Otherwise the show will seem lackluster.

[Jaim Magnus]

I actually think a broody Doctor makes more sense, given all he's seen and experienced.  For me it's the overall quality of the stories that is so bothersome.

[Ruger]

I just had a conversation with my wife and father-in-law on this very subject. I think that the problem that we (my family) is having with respect to Moffat's Doctor is that he switched the characters of the companion and the Doctor from Tennant/Davies' tenure. During Tennant, the Doctor was outspoken and bouncy, energetic and fun and the companion was the 'straight girl' getting to experience this huge universe that the Doctor lives in. In Moffat's Doctor, the Doctor is quiet and brooding (with a few notable moments of hilarity) and Amy Pond is the one who's outspoken and hilarious (most of the time). This has led many of us to see Amy as outshining the Doctor (because she's more the kind of character we enjoy watching) and now we'll see the show as having lost something important when Amy leaves.

Hopefully, the Doctor becomes more vibrant once Amy leaves or they find a new companion with the same verve as Amy. Otherwise the show will seem lackluster.

Not quite sure I can agree with Tennant's Doctor being "outspoken and bouncy" and not as "quiet and brooding" as Smith's Doctor...well, maybe not as quiet, perhaps, but brooding?

Tennant's Doctor starts out his life by killing the leader of an invading alien race, saying "No second chances...that's the kind of man I am.", and later causing the removal of Harriet Jones from the position of Prime Minister after she orders Torchwood to destroy the Sycorax ship. Rose brings out he best in him, and then, after he looses Rose to an alternate reality, he nearly sacrifices himself to take out the Racnoss, only relenting when Donna pulls him back from the edge of suicide.

Later, he refuses to see what is in front of him with Martha, until he drives her away.

Afterwards, he deplores the fact that he can't change a fixed point in time, and actually has to cause the eruption of Vesuvius, taking out Pompeii, until Donna does it with him, and refuses to save anyone in Pompeii until Donna persuades him to save the one family. Later, after he has to wipe Donna's mind to save her, he ultimately tries to break the laws of time (specifically, the concept of the fixed point in time), thinking he is above them, only to be shown that he is not...and then broods over his coming death with Wilfred, only to rage when it comes time to sacrifice himself to save him...

No, Tennant's Doctor did A LOT of brooding over how he had lived too long, especially after Rose was gone from his life...

Ruger

[Lore]

Tennant's Doctor starts out his life by killing the leader of an invading alien race, saying "No second chances...that's the kind of man I am.", and later causing the removal of Harriet Jones from the position of Prime Minister after she orders Torchwood to destroy the Sycorax ship. Rose brings out he best in him, and then, after he looses Rose to an alternate reality, he nearly sacrifices himself to take out the Racnoss, only relenting when Donna pulls him back from the edge of suicide.

Later, he refuses to see what is in front of him with Martha, until he drives her away.

Afterwards, he deplores the fact that he can't change a fixed point in time, and actually has to cause the eruption of Vesuvius, taking out Pompeii, until Donna does it with him, and refuses to save anyone in Pompeii until Donna persuades him to save the one family. Later, after he has to wipe Donna's mind to save her, he ultimately tries to break the laws of time (specifically, the concept of the fixed point in time), thinking he is above them, only to be shown that he is not...and then broods over his coming death with Wilfred, only to rage when it comes time to sacrifice himself to save him...

No, Tennant's Doctor did A LOT of brooding over how he had lived too long, especially after Rose was gone from his life...

Ruger

I think Ruger nails down the Tenth Doctor's ethical motivations rather soundly.

The End of Time suitably outlines just how wildly the Tenth Doctor's moral compass would sometimes sway -- between times of self-sacrifice and moral fortitude [The Doctor's Daughter] to moments of selfish concern over his own importance in the grand scheme of things [The Waters of Mars].

The Tenth Doctor was a moral contradiction. His ultimate self-sacrifice in The End of Time -- while a testament to the spirit of the entire lot of incarnations of the character -- was also partly undone by his expressed overall bitterness for the "reward" he was about to receive:- the end of his life when he still had so much more to experience and to accomplish. Which I think was beautifully captured in his brooding commentary about regeneration:- 'Even if I regenerate, it still feels like dying... another man goes sauntering off, replaced by another one...and I'm dead.'

That single piece of dialogue really changed how I perceived the Doctor as a continually evolving character-type and how every new incarnation establishes itself from those prior to it. Each Doctor faces death in much the same way as non-Time Lords. It is the end of each and every life, despite the fact that the character itself will go on living in a new incarnation. What the previous Doctor was... what he loved, and how he lived, ends with his death. Sure, it all still remains as part of the new incarnation, but barring the bending of the laws of time or some strange temporal paradox that allows the current incarnation of the Doctor to interact with his past incarnations [Time Crash, for example]... those Doctors are gone. And with all of that mental baggage weighing on his mind, as well as the "He will knock four times" prophecy hanging over his head, the Tenth Doctor's brooding nature, I think, was well-defined toward the end.

[Belisarius]

All true. But Matt Smith's doctor is simply not as fun as David Tennant's. They both have 'dark' moments. But Tennant's 'dark' moments are wrathful and powerful, whereas Smith's appear petulant. Tennant's 'brooding' looks like a thousand-yard-stare of a combat veteran.

Now, I don't know if it's Moffat or Smith, but I simply feel less engaged by this Doctor than the last (or even Mr Eccleston's). There's no equivalent to Mr Tennant's 'allons-y' (or better 'allons-y Alonso'). There are three series with Mr Tennat, so there's plenty of material to choose dark and dangerous times for the Doctor, but there's also so many uplifting moments, where he adores humanity in all its glory. I've yet to be uplifted by Matt Smith.

[Lore]

I really liked this year's Christmas Special, though not as much as the 2010 story.

All in all, a solid episode which again played up the strengths of this quirky and irreverent Doctor. I thought the bit with Amy and Rory at the end was a little forced though, and thrown in simply because it was a holiday special. And I really didn't think the Doctor wiping away a tear was necessary. We've already seen how deeply touched he's been by family and friends reaching out to him. Again, this seemed forced as well.

I still find myself adoring most of the creature creations for this new incarnation of the Doctor. And I loved the Doctor's past reference [to the Ninth Doctor episode The End of the World] about one of the Trees of Cheem "once coming on to him."

And, finally, the 2011 Special did deliver one of the best lines of this year's series:- "It's a big universe. Everything happens somewhere."

[GreenDragon]

RE: Dark moments.  I was floored at Demon's Run.  After so many years of Tennant and Smith (and I see them very much alike - not greatly dissimilar - opposed to Hartnell to Troughton to Pertwee, or Davison to Colin Baker) we had gotten to used to "The Oncoming Storm" that we forgot who the Doctor is supposed to be.  I like that he is now trying to stop being an angel of vengeance.

RE: No second chances.  Funny that, since he would go on to continue offering second chances.  Which is one of the things that makes him the Doctor.  He always offers mercy.  He always tries to avoid death.  Which - from the plot perspectice - gives the monster of the week the opportunity to kill itself, and leave his hands clean.

Androzani - previously encountered by Davison.  Moffatt loves Davison.  Though not as much as Tennant.

[Belisarius]

He always offers one chance to avoid their fate. Very rarely (never?) do they take their chance.

[StCptMara]

He always offers one chance to avoid their fate. Very rarely (never?) do they take their chance.

That seems to be one of his rules...you know, the things that a good man doesn't need...

[Lore]

Androzani - previously encountered by Davison.  Moffatt loves Davison.  Though not as much as Tennant.

I was intrigued by this reference, given Moffat's love of the Fifth Doctor era. And it piqued my interest further because the tale involving the Androzani was also the Fifth Doctor's final story -- ultimately seeing him regenerate into his Sixth Incarnation. So I can't help but wonder whether Moffat might be unintentionally laying some hints for future developments involving further ties to old Fifth Doctor enemies -- and whether it will have anything to do with the whole "On the fields of Trensalor, at the fall of the Eleventh ... " prophecy.

[YingJanshi]

So finally saw the Christmas Special and I was . . . underwhelmed. It was ok but it was a bit boring honestly. I don't know. The living trees were cool. Maybe it was because there never really seem to be any real jeopardy. Never felt like anyone was in any real danger. And I found Madge a bit annoying for some reason. Though it was cool to see Bill Bailey.

I like Matt Smith as the Doctor. I think my problem with the last couple of series is that the writers seem to be trying too hard to put in the comedy. He's a bit of a clown. Ok that's cool. That just makes the moments when his inner darkness comes out all the more disturbing. But there is a point where it becomes a bit absurd. I think the Tom Baker stories toward the end of his run sometimes fall into the same trap. For example the "loggers" in the special. I didn't find them funny in the least. They just seemed absurd, more like caricatures than real characters. And a sad waste of Mr. Bailey's talents. Anyway my rant is over. Here's to looking forward to next year's season!