Author Topic: Alacorn or Fury (Royal)?  (Read 9815 times)

Cannonshop

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Re: Alacorn or Fury (Royal)?
« Reply #30 on: 22 November 2019, 22:59:34 »
This is the internet... I wouldn't put any money on a bet on which one of you is younger...  ::)

Point.  Never bet money on the internet anyway, but especially don't bet on who's older.
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Kovax

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Re: Alacorn or Fury (Royal)?
« Reply #31 on: 26 November 2019, 09:24:08 »
Yeah, given the usual pseudo-random internet mix, you'll sometimes find that the "grizzled veteran" player is 14, and the seemingly "green" player asking questions is in his 80s, possibly because he doesn't remember those rules any more from "back in the day".

StoneRhino

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Re: Alacorn or Fury (Royal)?
« Reply #32 on: 27 November 2019, 03:58:42 »
The Alacorn is the tank that I would pick. Yes, it is a big target, but that's the fun thing about an otherwise boring unit. I have used it a lot, but it has never been something that I felt a want to run. It's a solid design and can easily mess things up. Most people have been afraid of it, which makes it worth running and having it sit in an area that you want to keep people out of. If it becomes a brick does not matter as it has the reach and turret to make sure that it's still a threat.

truetanker

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Re: Alacorn or Fury (Royal)?
« Reply #33 on: 05 December 2019, 02:23:47 »
Why not an Un of 2 Royal Puma-05b, 3 Royal Rhino and 2 Mars XL...

Gives a nice 3/5 speed bump, has 2 IS ERPPCs, crap full of LRM's w/Artemis, both IS and Clan, two each Gauss Rifles, ERLs and LB-10-X-ACs and some SSRM6's. Oh yeah, it also has 4 ECMs!

Indirect as much as possible, if found direct firepower and screw standard Honor system! Something is going to hurt if this unit hits the field!

As always Crow,
TT
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Cannonshop

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Re: Alacorn or Fury (Royal)?
« Reply #34 on: 05 December 2019, 05:09:06 »
The Alacorn is the tank that I would pick. Yes, it is a big target, but that's the fun thing about an otherwise boring unit. I have used it a lot, but it has never been something that I felt a want to run. It's a solid design and can easily mess things up. Most people have been afraid of it, which makes it worth running and having it sit in an area that you want to keep people out of. If it becomes a brick does not matter as it has the reach and turret to make sure that it's still a threat.

see, you're still thinking only about defense, which is where it excels.  On offense, it's dead weight and wasted BV, like just about every other non-indirect artillery unit sludging along at 3/5 that isn't a Battlemech or Armor point.  The ideal environment where the Alacorn is at it's very best, is parked with a good line of sight.  un-parking it is what you can call 'a very bad idea' quite accurately.  The problem being, when on the table, getting it to that ideal environment, which is parked, stationary, with good sight lines for that triple-gauss, to deny a spot of terrain, because unless you start the match parked on that good spot, there's a pretty decent likelihood that your Alacorn will wind up bunkered in the WRONG spot, a spot where those triple gauss are pretty nearly useless, pretty quickly, even if it's otherwise undamaged.  Why is this? because most opponents who've played the game more than once, and understand vehicles, will target it even with more threatening 'mechs nearby, because doing so will deny said more threatening 'mechs that support from those 'scary' triple gauss rifles.

think: "Mission Kill" versus the more usual pickup game of 'total annihilation'.

I don't have to outright kill the tank, if I can simply remove it from being a factor.  This is relatively easy compared to a 'mech, since a tank is relatively easily rendered non-mission capable, especially a slow tank, being used in support of a 'mech. (It also becomes infinitely easier to kill a 'mech if you can isolate it from support, even a very super-scary, super-tanky 'mech with hardened armor and big, scary weapons.)

Tank-on-offense is a playstyle that doesn't work if you're focused on controlling a specific point and being defensive.  it relies on being aggressive and mobile, shifting position and flexing on ground.  3/5 is very easily rendered incapable of offense, plus eating flanking penalties to gunnery makes the tank less effective as a supporting element. (three fifteen point shots are less damaging when they miss, than one two point hit, and flanking enhances your chance of missing.)

The rules make the base model Alacorn superb as a fixed defensive emplacement. it's a Gauss Turret that works best when parked, letting the enemy come at it. It falls apart in capability when the enemy can go around, flank, or render it unable to get to that good position.  a Stationary Alacorn with level 1 terrain on either side of it, can't engage enemies on the other side of that terrain. if the motive system is critted out (say, by a cheap LRM carrier that everyone, even the Clans, have and use dropping missiles on indirect fire), then it's great-for defending that one gap between two hills, but it's not going to be able to advance to support your 'mech.  get it?  unless you run right down the path in front of that triple gauss? you can bypass it, ignore it, whatever.

because it can't move to a firing position!  It really doesn't matter if the crew is alive or dead, it doesn't matter if the armor is otherwise pristine, or the turret has full traverse, because it's blind on two or more sides and can't influence the battle anymore.

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Kovax

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Re: Alacorn or Fury (Royal)?
« Reply #35 on: 05 December 2019, 10:03:40 »
To expand on Cannonshop's remarks, the 3/5 speed effectively slows the entire advance down to that same lethargic speed, otherwise you isolate the other units from their fire support, and can take them on piecemeal.

My response to semi-mobile gun platforms is to send a fast scout/harassment unit (like a Pegasus or Saracen) to immobilize the tank while it's still on the far end of the battlefield, or ideally in some spot with limited fields of fire.  Either the opponent has to fall back and allow me free reign of the rest of the field, or they're only operating at partial strength, because that big chunk of BV is now locked in place.  If the opponent does come out without the tank, my harassment unit can go back and hit it again at MUCH better odds (against an immobile target).  If the opponent decides to hunker down around the tank and play defense, I've got the initiative.

Colt Ward

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Re: Alacorn or Fury (Royal)?
« Reply #36 on: 05 December 2019, 10:27:50 »
And both of you are overlooking the OP's combined arms comments.

If he is running Prots and a Osteon in the same force, as I mentioned earlier, that Alacorn will be BAIT.  Its going to be pretty difficult to get a Osteon to run off and leave the Alacorn, and since the Society only faced the Clans you are going to be fighting a lot less formations that will field that speeding hover rather than a mech.  And good luck getting past the Osteon, especially if it is linked to something.  Two versions of that thing sport plenty of Large Pulse and iATMs are no slouch.  Further, with Society Protos screening a Alacorn you are not getting too many shots on the tank in the first place.

What he is proposing is bascially a Lyran Wall of Steel . . . hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle- a waddling we shall go.

Osteon D 3/5  linked
Ceph A    5/3  linked
Alacorn 4/5, maybe better depends on linked BV
Point of Hobgoblin
Point of Roc/Roc Z
Elemental Point

should all fit in under 7k and gives a very solid force that is going to be able to grind forward against most Clan and IS forces they would encounter . . . I can think of several ways to defeat but you are talking about either something built to hit the cracks in their synergy or using tech like RE Lasers, which fits the paper-rock-scissors nature of BT.
Colt Ward
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