Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread IV - READ THE FIRST POST

[mitchberthelson]

Looks like I made another mistake in formatting my Tau Wraith request. Forgot the link. Sorry.

Tau Wraith: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3166/tau-wraith
Tau Wraith is missing the LPRB and RCN abilities it should have from the Multi-Modal Cybernetic Eyes (Sensory Implants) listed on pg.207 of TRO: 3085 that describe a 2 Hex active-probe ability. Multi-Modal Sensory Implants grant LPRB and RCN per pg. 147 of Alpha Strike Commander's Edition.

Fix:
Add LPRB and RCN to Tau Wraith. Recalculate PV if necessary. The MUL already has the C3I ability from the Boosted Communications Implant.

[Liam's Ghost]

Error in the alpha strike card for the Skimmer(http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5065/skimmer).

Movement should be 34" rather than 26"

[jasonf]

I think the Raider and Raider II 'Mechs should be Experimental rules rather than Standard, as per TO:AUE, p. 120 (non-fusion BMs).

The specific variants affected would be:
Raider JL-1
Raider JL-3A
Raider JL-3B
Raider II JL-2
Raider II JL-3C

I didn't come across any other non-IndustrialMechs with a non-fusion engine.

[DanghenWoolf]

Starting in 3060 FRR and Ghost Bear are Rasalhague Dominion. Civil War (start 3062) and Jihad eras still has factions split out but it looks correct after.

[Sartris]

The FRR continues to exist as a separate entity until around 3070. The Ghost Bear faction page instructs players to use it for both CGB and GBD until 3081.

[Hellraiser]

The Rattlesnake entry which was recently canonized is showing as year 3043.

But it includes C3-Slave.

C3 Tech is listed as being introduced in 3050.

So either the Intro Year of C3 is wrong or the Rattlesnake is a later variant post 3050 & not actually from 3043

Rattlesnake JR7-31P      35   1,323   43   Striker   Shrap09 ShrapRS   Standard      3043   

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9239/rattlesnake-jr7-31p

[GoldBishop]

LRM Carrier (WoB)

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1953/lrm-carrier-wob

Recent revision of the Conversion Rules saw the downgrading of the Indirect Fire value to follow the non-Artemis value, and this one looks like it slipped through the cracks.
3x LRM20s (with sufficient ammo) should be 3.6 net damage (1.2 per launcher), rounding normally to IF4 instead of IF5
This should only offset the OFV (and also PV) by 1, or from 35 to 34.  No other adjustments at this time.

OFV ~24.2
 Damage (3+[5+5]+5)
 +4 for IF4
 x1.1 subtotal (c3 connectivity)
DFV ~8.25
  6.6 (tracked vee)
  x1.1 for TMM+1
  MF +0.75
GFB +2 (MHQ)

manual estimate PV = 34.2 ~ 34

[Gribbly]

The LRM and SRM variants of the 'Goblin Medium Tank' are available to IS General, Periphery General and Mercenary in the Star League era. Should the base Goblin also have IS and Periphery availability in the SL period?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Is there a specific reason why the Jupiter and Jupiter 4 are available to Clan Jade Falcon in the IlClan Era but the Jupter 2 and Jupiter 3 are not?

[Sartris]

seems like they should be. will check for potential weirdness

[danilapal]

Unit: Annihilator C "Gausszilla"
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/44/annihilator-c-gausszilla

Issue : Wrong (?) Faction Availability (probably "unique")
 
Historical: Operation Klondike , p173
Notable MechWarriors
Star Colonel Bryan Kabrinski: Sharing the same name as
his biological grandfather, Star Colonel Kabrinski was a legend in
his time—outspoken and innovative, he led his Clan to victory
after victory during the Golden Century, winning for the Ghost Bears several OmniMech designs as well as more than a score of
genetic legacies. Even more legendary, however, was the ’Mech
he supposedly commanded in his most important trials—known
as “Gausszilla,” it was an Annihilator that somehow mounted an
astounding five Gauss rifles. The ’Mech itself was lost to history, but
his exploits at its controls continue to fuel tall tales throughout the
Clan homeworlds and the Ghost Bear Dominion.

Bump

[willydstyle]

I'm curious why the Hellfire 3 is a Hell's Horses-specific variant when it's not mentioned on the Sarna page at all.

[nckestrel]

I'm curious why the Hellfire 3 is a Hell's Horses-specific variant when it's not mentioned on the Sarna page at all.

Sarna is a fan website.  It follows what is published by CGL, not the other way around. 
The Hellfire 3 was given a writeup on BattleCorps in their MilSpecs articles and was mentioned there as belonging to the Hell's Horses.
There may be more in the homeworlds (likely there were at some point), but if so we don't know.

[willydstyle]

Than you that was just what I was looking for :)

[Church14]

In Dominions Divided, HBK-6P Hunchback shows up in RotS RATs as a 9 result.

MUL lists the -6P as only Lyran and mercenary



Should that be a different entry in the RAT, or should the RotS have it in the MUL

[Sartris]

RATs aren’t a guaranteed inclusion

[DanghenWoolf]

Disregard.

[jgodwin17]

Should the Marian Hegemony and the Taurian Concordat have access to the Orion ON1-VA? They both have access to the ON1-V and the ON1-VA seems like a really common refit (IS general and Mercenary access) to a mech that both factions have been using for 100+ years at the time of early Succession Wars.

[redlancer]

It looks like Banshee BNC-3S (https://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/245/banshee-bnc-3s) might be missing the AC1/1/- ability.

The rationale for that is that Banshee BNC-3S as well as Urbanmech URM-R60 (https://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3354/urbanmech-um-r60) and Koschei KSC-3I (https://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1820/koschei-ksc-3i) all use the Imperator-B AC/10 but only Urbanmech and Koschei have the AC1/1/- ability.

Confirmation in sources about the Imperator-B used:
Urbanmech R60 - Technical Readout: Succession Wars (p.30)
Koschei KSC-3I - Technical Readout: 3075 (p.244)
Banshee BNC-3S - Technical Readout: Succession Wars (p.176)

and on Sarna.net:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/UrbanMech
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Koschei
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Banshee_(BattleMech)

[nckestrel]

The BNC-3S does not have AC because of heat issues.

[redlancer]

The BNC-3S does not have AC because of heat issues.

Could you elaborate or point me to some explanation ? I'd like to understand the rule behind it.
I suppose it's not as simple as "if a mech can overheat it can't have AC", because there are mechs like that - eg. https://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1771/king-crab-kgc-0000

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Butcherbird (Ion Sparrow) is given an availability of Clan Jade Falcon in the ilClan Era.  This should probably be changed to Star League (Clan Jade Falcon) to match the availability of other mechs produced by the Alyina Mercantile League in the ilClan Era.

[Psyfox]

Hi. All Masakari (Warhawk) Variants are available to all Clan Factions and IS Mercenaries in the Jihad Era, yet they become unavailable for everyone except the Scorpion Empire in all post-Jihad eras. This seems unlikely and unintended.

[Scotty]

The Warhawk is specifically called out in multiple sources as having basically gone extinct in the Inner Sphere since the Jihad, but is currently in production in the Scorpion Empire in the Deep Periphery.

[Sartris]

The pre-republic availability of clan omnis represents the salvage from bulldog and serpent. Sources like 3050U note that by the time of in-universe publication, warhawks have all but disappeared.

[mitchberthelson]

Looks like I made another mistake in formatting my Tau Wraith request. Forgot the link. Sorry.

Tau Wraith: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3166/tau-wraith
Tau Wraith is missing the LPRB and RCN abilities it should have from the Multi-Modal Cybernetic Eyes (Sensory Implants) listed on pg.207 of TRO: 3085 that describe a 2 Hex active-probe ability. Multi-Modal Sensory Implants grant LPRB and RCN per pg. 147 of Alpha Strike Commander's Edition.

Fix:
Add LPRB and RCN to Tau Wraith. Recalculate PV if necessary. The MUL already has the C3I ability from the Boosted Communications Implant.

Bump

[Hellraiser]

Could you elaborate or point me to some explanation ? I'd like to understand the rule behind it.
I suppose it's not as simple as "if a mech can overheat it can't have AC", because there are mechs like that - eg. https://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1771/king-crab-kgc-0000

I'm no expert in the rules, but, I believe it has to do with how overheating reducing the damage of an item in the conversion rules.

So if you managed to overheat far enough, the AC might be down to less than the X-Damage it needs to score at least 1 point of Damage at the AS Scale.

This is why some designs have a 0* Special or something like that.  The damage is too low to even count.

The KingCrab is packing Twin AC20s so it would take a LOT of reduction to not count them.
Where as the Banshee-3S is only a Single AC10 on a mech stuffed fill of PPC/ML/SRM/SL Spam.
You'll notice it also doesn't have an SRM stat either.

Essentially the 3S can do 58? Damage at Medium Range but only has a Damage stat of 4 w/ 2 OV. 
The missing damage is enough to reduce the AC/SRM to not being their own separate stats.

I don't know the exact math but if you look into the conversion rules it should be there.

You'll also notice the KC you mentioned only has an AC Stat of 2, not 4 for the total of 40 damage it can do in ACs.
This is due to the Overheat reducing "average" damage.
Bracket Fire mechs tend to lose specials compared to Alpha Striking mechs with full HS capacity.

[Gribbly]

The LRM and SRM variants of the 'Goblin Medium Tank' are available to IS General, Periphery General and Mercenary in the Star League era. Should the base Goblin also have IS and Periphery availability in the SL period?

Goblin Medium Tank
Goblin Medium Tank (LRM)
Goblin Medium Tank (SRM)

[LeSchwa]

There seems to be a naming inconsistency on the Maxim Heavy Hover Transport.  "Maxim Heavy Hover Transport" and "Maxim (I) Heavy Hover Transport appear to be different units, even though Sarna (an unofficial/fan resource, I know) treats them as the same.  It's unclear whether the "(I)" is a Roman numeral or an abbreviation for "Infantry."

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2127/maxim-heavy-hover-transport

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2115/maxim-i-heavy-hover-transport
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2114/maxim-i-heavy-hover-transport-company-command

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Maxim#Variants (listed as "Infantry" and "Infantry Command")

Never mind, it makes sense now.

[nckestrel]

(an unofficial/fan resource, I know)

You've answered your own question.