Bonus Mech of the Week: Wolverine II

[Empyrus]

Don't know about that.  Unlike a lot of the other Royal variants (which this basically is), the Wolvie Too just feels like a mundane trooper.
It's, a Wolvie...too.  Like the original, just with a hint more of everything.  No real change in combat focus, unlike, say, the Royal Griffin.

Royal units need troopers too.

[JadeHellbringer]

I feel there was a missed opportunity to arm the II with an LB-10X.

Any Mech without one is a missed opportunity to arm it with an LB-10X.

Even Stingers and Wasps. 

[SteelRaven]

Any Mech without one is a missed opportunity to arm it with an LB-10X.

Even Stingers and Wasps. 

Urbanmech pilot detected

[Liam's Ghost]

Royal units need troopers too.

But do we know if it was actually intended to be a royal mech? The mech was still a prototype when the Amaris Coup started, and between the MUL and its TRO entry, it hadn't even reached full production until around three years into the conflict.

While prototypes might have been tested with Royal Divisions and new production might have gone to the Royal units during the coup due to priority on new equipment, I'm not sure we can guarantee that if the Coup hadn't intervened it wouldn't have been more widely deployed.

[Empyrus]

Well, the Star League standard way of doing things appears to have been to assign new units, particularly technologically advanced ones, first to Royals, then to standard units, then finally to House armies.
I figure this same would have applied with the Wolverine II, though i suppose it is reasonable its service as purely Royal mech could have been meant to be short.

[Hellraiser]

Exactly, pretty much everything starts out as Royal by the very nature of the TH tech distribution/dissemination pattern.

Now that said, since nothing on the Wolvie-II was actually NEW anymore, it could have been designed for Regular SLDF units.

However, since it is a "II" and a "variant" of an existing mech, I'm going to guess that it was intended for Royal units similar to the way almost every other "Variant" at that time was.   
  (Pixie-Special, Warhammers, Ostrocs, Locusts, Stingers, Hussars, Griffins, Shadowhawks, T-Bolts, Crusaders, Catapults, Marauders, Atlases, etc etc)

When it comes to Variants in the SL Era, you have some rare House Models, & some "early runs / Prototypes" before the "Mass Production" model, & lots of Royals, but you don't see many "2nd Version just as common" models for much of anything.   Off the top of my head, I actually can't think of any.
Actually, there is 1, w/ no stats yet, the "Recon-Crusader w/ Jumpjets" that the Liao model was based off of which is likely some variant of 1 of the early 1R/2R Crusader platforms.  Not that this one is "just as common" but at least I wouldn't call it an early prototype test run.

But outside of that I'm drawing a blank on most anything that would qualify as a true 2nd model that isn't House/Royal/TestRun specific.

[Intermittent_Coherence]

You're still going to need at least another couple of tons.

Not really. If you ditch the Artemis IV and pulse laser upgrade, you'd have your 2 tons.

[Firesprocket]

Not really. If you ditch the Artemis IV and pulse laser upgrade, you'd have your 2 tons.

That's exactly what I did.  I posted it in the custom section last night here:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=87133.0

[Hellraiser]

But like you, I've always liked the idea of an LB-10-toting Wolverine.  Let the SHD be the one afflicted with the collection of popgun weapons.

I'm the opposite, I feel like the Wolvie has had boatloads of great variants using Lasers.

The Shadowhawk really needed something for a good boost.

Or you can have the LB10X Wolvie & I'll take the ER-beamers for Shadowhawks, whatever works.

[gyedid]

The Wolverine II's original description was published a few years before the Royal Shadowhawk was.  TRO 3075 vs Historicals: Operation KLONDIKE.

Got the publications mixed, sorry.  The Shad still got the bigger bump.

With the original intro-tech versions, each of the classic 55-ton trio had a more-or-less defined role.  The Griffin was direct-fire support, the Shad was a flanker, and the Wolvie was a close-range mugger, especially the -K and -M variants.  With the Royal versions though, the Griff and Shad both seem to become the muggers (that can cover their own, or each other's [if working together], approach), while the Wolvie II is...what?  Seems to me that it kind of takes over the flanker role, with the longer range of the UAC/5.  It would still do well in the mugger role, though, since the UAC/5 also has a smaller minimum range.

(SIDE NOTE:  I am not a fan of the Royal Griffin as published.  Dual SRM-6s just don't say "Griffin" to me.)

cheers,

Gabe

[gyedid]

That's exactly what I did.  I posted it in the custom section last night here:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=87133.0

But then it's just kind of a regular Wolvie all over again, just with a better main gun.

cheers,

Gabe

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Got the publications mixed, sorry.  The Shad still got the bigger bump.

Absolutely.  The Royal Shadowhawk is a massive upgrade compared to the stock version.  The Wolverine II and Royal Griffin aren't even in the same room.

[SteelRaven]

That's in part because the original Shaddy was very unimpressive. It needed a upgrade and it didn't get the one it needed in TRO: 3050. By contrast, everyone loves the Wolverine in almost all flavors.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

That's true, but the Royal Shad is also objectively a great mech in its own right.

[ANS Kamas P81]

I'd say the 3050 Shadow Hawk was a pretty decent 'Mech in its own right, with that LRM20 and UAC5 aboard.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Didn't have enough ammo for either gun.

[gyedid]

That's true, but the Royal Shad is also objectively a great mech in its own right.

Well, it basically just doubles its short-range firepower.  The LB-10X is kind of like combining the AC/5 and LRM-5 (both damage and capability-wise) into a single gun, giving up some long range to gain increased close-range accuracy.

But this thread is supposed to be about the Wolvie II.  Compared with the Royal Shad, the Wolvie's improvements are all very incremental.

cheers,

Gabe

[Hellraiser]

I'd say the 3050 Shadow Hawk was a pretty decent 'Mech in its own right, with that LRM20 and UAC5 aboard.

It wasn't "Bad" but the lack of LRM20 ammo, combined w/ still using 3 ammo types & only having 1 energy weapon gives it a sub-par "feel".

Little changes....... Any of them.....
Streak into ML or AMS.
Ultra for ERLL allows for Artemis & Ammo for the LRM?
Smaller LRM rack to add ammo/Artemis

Any/All could have kept a close feel to the Hawk while improving it greatly.

[SteelRaven]

This really is becoming a accidental Shadowhawk discussion.

How about we talk about other variants of Wolverine that you would consider competes with the Wolverine II instead.

I'm personally a fan of the Wolverine WVR-8K myself. With the exception of the Streak SRM 6, it uses much of the same technology as the WVR-7K. I can understand why someone would prefer the cooler running Ultra AC 5 but I'm a sucker for PPCs.

[Hellraiser]

How about we talk about other variants of Wolverine that you would consider competes with the Wolverine II instead.

For it's era, there is only Intro Tech, so it's the clear winner. 

In 3025 the 6M is hands down the best for dropping the AC AND keeping the JJs at the same time.

Come 3050, it's a toss up.
I favor the 7M myself for the range but the 7K isn't a bad mech if you want an Urban Brawler.

Civil War I'm a huge fan of the 8C for basically being a 7K w/ C3 added.
8K isn't bad as a stand alone mech for sure, but the 8C will always shine to me as a team player.

Jihad 7M2 is a clear winner with a simple 2ERLL to HPPC swap that takes it from being a Bracket fighter to being able to SMASH in close.
I actually prefer this refit to the similar/different production model 9M.   The CASE-II of the 11M is a later minor upgrade.

The only thing I can say about ANY of the Davion models (sadly) is that at least 1 of them has TAG on it, so there is that :(

The single shining example of post Jihad era that I can say I enjoy is the 9W2 with IJJ, C3S, & ECM.
I swear this thing is a set of TSM away from Greatness!

Which brings me to my real hate on, that we still don't have a good TSM "Wolverine" that I can punch things with.
I've made more than a few customs for a WYSIWYG visual feel using a 6-pack of lasers for the missile rack just to dial-a-heat them in.

[Ruger]

How about we talk about other variants of Wolverine that you would consider competes with the Wolverine II instead.

I’m personally a fan of one of two routes:

1) LB-10X ILO ultra-5

Or

2) An Inner Sphere version of the original Conjurer.

Personally, I prefer the latter. Make the Wolverine a fast, mobile, close-range combatant. This would pair with the Griffin going the route of long-range sniper (would give it a larger LRM rack, or maybe multiple smaller racks like the IIC, and ER PPC), and making the  Shadow Hawk a generalist design, capable both at range and up close.

But that’s me.

Ruger

[Intermittent_Coherence]

I’m personally a fan of one of two routes:

1) LB-10X ILO ultra-5

Or

2) An Inner Sphere version of the original Conjurer.

Personally, I prefer the latter. Make the Wolverine a fast, mobile, close-range combatant. This would pair with the Griffin going the route of long-range sniper (would give it a larger LRM rack, or maybe multiple smaller racks like the IIC, and ER PPC), and making the  Shadow Hawk a generalist design, capable both at range and up close.

But that’s me.

Ruger

Ermm... WVR-6M? That's pretty much the IS Conjurer minus the speed upgrade.

[SteelRaven]

or the WVR-7K, less range and more fragile but we are taking SLDF level IS vs Clan Standard. 

[Hellraiser]

2) An Inner Sphere version of the original Conjurer.

Personally, I prefer the latter. Make the Wolverine a fast, mobile, close-range combatant. This would pair with the Griffin going the route of long-range sniper (would give it a larger LRM rack, or maybe multiple smaller racks like the IIC, and ER PPC), and making the  Shadow Hawk a generalist design, capable both at range and up close.

Harder to do than you'd think thanks to the use of Endo & Ferro on the design.
I've created ERLL/ERPPC models w/ Streaks & electronics that both increase endurance/longevity that are close.

[Intermittent_Coherence]

Harder to do than you'd think thanks to the use of Endo & Ferro on the design.
I've created ERLL/ERPPC models w/ Streaks & electronics that both increase endurance/longevity that are close.

It's hard if you want to do 6/9/6 with an SFE. If you stick with 5/8/5 it's more feasible.

[Ruger]

It's hard if you want to do 6/9/6 with an SFE. If you stick with 5/8/5 it's more feasible.

Or just go XL as a Royal unit.

I have a version over on Mordel’s board.

Ruger

[Intermittent_Coherence]

Or just go XL as a Royal unit.

I have a version over on Mordel’s board.

Ruger

Yeah. No way to do it with just SFE. 330SFE is exactly 5 tons heavier than 300SFE meaning it eats up all the tonnage you got from moving up to a 55T chassis. And the gyro is now heavier.

[Starfury]

What I love about the Wolverine II is that the Capellans have it.  I find it hilarious that the Clans have to face yet another reminder that their so blessed Star Leauge has had its war machines spread out amongst the supposed "evil' House Lords they were going to overthrow. Otherwise, the 7H is a decent refit.