Canon Clan BA?

[ColBosch]

So...how many of these items can be mounted on Canon Clan Battle Armor?

[Stormfury]

More explosive?  How's that?

1 ton of R-A/C-2 ammo exploding: 90 damage.
1 ton of R-A/C-5 ammo exploding: 100 damage.
1 ton of LRM ammunition (any launcher) exploding: 120 damage.

And you tend to chew through R-A/C ammunition much more swiftly than LRM ammo.

[Urban Kufahl]

Yes after 3070 the IS power have some juicy toys but how many could be fielded ?

CL-BA vs IS-BA :
For clans the BA is the "basic" trooper for 1st line units and a lot of 2nd lines. For the IS BA is a rare stuff reserved to front line elite and in limited numbers.

[Moonsword]

Yes after 3070 the IS power have some juicy toys but how many could be fielded ?

CL-BA vs IS-BA :
For clans the BA is the "basic" trooper for 1st line units and a lot of 2nd lines. For the IS BA is a rare stuff reserved to front line elite and in limited numbers.

That's changing.  Look at FR: AFFS, for example.  Battle armor is the most intact production left to the AFFS, so it's getting much more common.

[Stormfury]

And in terms of raw numbers, from ~3060 onwards most Regiments have around as much BA support as a Cluster does.

[Urban Kufahl]

And in terms of raw numbers, from ~3060 onwards most Regiments have around as much BA support as a Cluster does.

It's what they planned but plan vs reallity  #P

Source : Lyran Alliance FM (3062)

1st Coventry Jaeger : 1 BA Platoon

8th Donegal Guards RCT, 311th Donegal Jump Regiment : 2 Fenrir BA Platoon
11th Donegal Guards RCT, 217th donegal Commando Regiment : 1 BA Platoon
14th Donegal Guards RCT, 8th Donegal Armored Infantry : 2 BA Companies

3rd Lyran Guards RCT, 62nd Lyran Jump Infantry Regiment : 1 BA Company
6th Lyran Guards RCT, 8th Lyran BAB : 1 BA Battalion
10th Lyran Guards RCT, 974th Fed-Com BAB : 1 BA Battalion

1st Royal Guards RCT, 1st Royal Guards BAR : 1 BA Regiment (stated as 6 month production)


1 Basic cluster = 1 BA Trinary (75 BA)

Clans are not fielding full cluster of BA (exept the CGB Galaxy) it's just because they don't want it.
IS powers are not fielding full BA regiment (ok 1 Rgt) it's because they can't do it

So maybe you want to "relook" your opinion ;)

[Urban Kufahl]

2nd points :

Clans are producing BA since +/- 100-150 years, now it's just a really basic stuff for them like another weapon. On the other hand for the Is forces it's still a brand new tech, hard to produce, maintain and replace.

[Sid]

2nd points :

Clans are producing BA since +/- 100-150 years, now it's just a really basic stuff for them like another weapon. On the other hand for the Is forces it's still a brand new tech, hard to produce, maintain and replace.

I.S BA was "brand new tech" back around 3052.  So was ER Medium and Small lasers, SSRM2s and 4s, Small and medium pulse lasers, LBx 2, 10, and 20 calibers etc.

Not to mention the more recent stuff such as RACs, Stealth Armour, C3 networks, etc. etc.

I remember reading somewhere that the issue was that the Inner Sphere was having trouble finding bodies to fill the suits- the Clans turn out Elementals in batches, while the I.S has to recruit heavy set, big, people.

On the other hand- you only need a BOD of 5 (IIRC) to pilot them in the RPG, as well as the fact that each I.S House seems to have at least half a dozen different unique BA suits they've created so...
 

[Kit deSummersville]

18-hex range, 5-point clusters, 6 heat. It's not a U-A/C-20, nor is it meant to be.

15 hex range, same as a Clan ERML.

Though I hasten to point out:

                              RAC 5                       HAG 30
Weight                    10                                13
Heat                         6                                  6
Jam                    4 or less                          None
Unjam               Gunnery+3                       None
Damage      30 max, 5 pt clusters   30 max, 5 pt clusters
Max Range              15                                  24
Min Range              None                               2
Ammo/ton               3.33                               4
Crits                          6                                  8

[Fear Factory]

And double the heat. And the ammo is more explosive. And so on and so forth.

It was a quick example with old Clan tech.  Do you forget that CASE comes standard so there is really no reason to worry about something like that?  Check kit's post about the HAG 30 for something new.  Don't even tell me that it's inferior to the Inner Sphere RAC.

The killer for me is that the Inner Sphere went from having no rapid-fire AutoCannon at all to having rapid-fire AutoCannon that could un jam in the space of a few centuries. The Clans still have not solved the jamming/circuit burn-out issue, after centuries of weapon refinement and beginning at a higher tech base.

It's a different gun.  They didn't fix anything.  No one fixed anything.  The Clans at least made it lighter and made it shoot much further.

With a few exceptions, 40-50 is the maximum practical damage any 'Mech can lay down in a single turn without heat issues. There are IS Mediums (Komodo, Centurion, etc) that can pull the same stunt. And for the sake of comparison, a Devastator is delivering twin 15-point and 10-point attacks rather than the 7s of the Nova... from ~50% greater range.

A 7 damage hit is nothing to shrug off.  Are you saying the Large Laser has no merit?

They pull the same stunts but have some significant flaws.  The Nova still out ranges the Komodo.  Plus, the Komodo is lighter and has an XL engine, so it has even worse armor on your standards.  And, with that armor you have the frail IS XL engine that is bad compared to the Nova's superior Clan XL.  Also, you're implying (IMO) that a 7 point hits lack power but you support a bunch of 5 point hits which are basically the same as an LRM hit?  Another example of a poor imitation of Clan tech is the Rakshasa.

Also, yeah the Devastator has more reach.  Again, the fact that you would have to resort to an Assault 'Mech to shoot down a Clan Medium OmniMech is the point here.  The inner sphere cannot match Clan technology nor create anything like it making their technology inferior.  The Clans can do what IS assaults can do with a Heavy chassis.  Heck, they can push it on the Medium with cheese...  like the Nova prime.

The Nova Prime is a good 'Mech, as long as you can get your opponent to play your game and they aren't using one of the (many) IS 'Mechs capable of playing that same game just as well, if not better.

Yeah, but come on.  It's not like you have to be within 5 hexes to get use out of a Nova prime.  Again, 15 is some good reach.

It is fifty tons and does not have maximum armour for the chassis in any case.

Really?  It's like 94% coverage.  That's a copout.

They can. Nightstar. Thunder Hawk. Devastator. Even the lowly Akuma can fight like a Clan assualt. The Inner Sphere had rough parity design-wise by 3060. By 3067, they were overtaking the Clans.

No.  Simply because nothing can fight like a Dire Wolf on the Inner Sphere side.  Ever.  The prime can match their firepower WITH ONE ARM.  Dire Wolf A is just scary.  Did you forget the Widowmaker?  And to make things worse, there are Clan Mediums and Heavies that can outclass the designs you proposed, AND one of them is the Nova prime.  Again, you are throwing out Assault 'Mechs but you are failing to throw out heavies or mediums that would make Clan pilots run the other direction.  It's not going to happen.

If Clan designs were employing old and new technologies as effectively as the Inner Sphere designs from that period, things would be different. Not everyone plays games where customs designs are allowed, though.

I'm not talking customs.

Omega Galaxy is also known for being ostracised by Clan Ghost Bear at large for their tactics since their inception, and for going rogue and essentially declaring independance from the Clan(s) in the Dark Age. Not the best example.

What does that have to do with anything?  They employ Clan Tech with Inner Sphere standards and it hurts.  A lot.  The dark age is a different story because everything basically levels out.

[Moonsword]

Really?  It's like 94% coverage.  That's a copout.

The context of that remark was in response to a claim by you that the 'Mech has maximum armor.  It doesn't.  Calling someone on an incorrect statement is not a cop out and terming it so verges on the disingenuous.  Further, the remark about chassis size is relevant when some of the proposed counters are much larger which means there's potentially significantly more armor in play.  It's an observation that the Clan machine's greater damage is going to get tied up burning through heavier armor.

Whether or not the point stands given the Nova's additional mobility over certain proposed counters is another issue but the remark is not a cop out.

[Fear Factory]

The context of that remark was in response to a claim by you that the 'Mech has maximum armor.  It doesn't.  Calling someone on an incorrect statement is not a cop out and terming it so verges on the disingenuous.  Further, the remark about chassis size is relevant when some of the proposed counters are much larger which means there's potentially significantly more armor in play.  It's an observation that the Clan machine's greater damage is going to get tied up burning through heavier armor.

Whether or not the point stands given the Nova's additional mobility over certain proposed counters is another issue but the remark is not a cop out.

Yeah, I did claim it.  I thought I was right.  I was wrong.  94% is just about there and it's armor is capable of taking a 15 point hit.  What's frustrating is when people complain about armor coverage like this, saying a medium with full armor is poor and frail simply because of the class restrictions it has to follow.  It can still take a beating and dish out more than what it can take.

(I'm not trying to insult or have an attitude)

[Fear Factory]

This is what basically started the whole argument before it became rock-paper-scissors:

I would in fact go so far as to say that, in general, the Inner Sphere has a technological advantage over the Clans in the current era.

What I'm really trying to say is that when it comes down to it, Inner Sphere technology is inferior to Clan Technology without a doubt.

There are maybe a handful of guns that the Inner Sphere have that can match the firepower of their Clan counterpart.  Gauss Rifle, LRM's, SRM's, Streak SRM's, Autocannons, Flamers and Machine Guns come to mind.  Everything but the Gauss Rifle has an increase in range (or loss of minimum range) which makes their weapons better if you play the range brackets.  The thing is, ALL of their weapons are much lighter allowing for much more.  Then you have Clan energy weapons which are just all-around better.

The Inner Sphere has tried to mimic Clan design concepts with the Rakshasa, Komodo, Penetrator, Black Hawk KU, and they all come up short (which is not me saying that the designs are not good) because of inferior weapons.  They are simply outclassed.  Fortunately, the Inner Sphere figured this out.  To take out Clan Tech, you have to use specialized machines filled with niche weapons and equipment, and this is where the Inner Sphere matches them if not outshines them.  They outnumber them and use weapons that fit their tactical doctrine (Different PPC's, Rotary AC's, C3, etc).  The technology is still inferior because any Clan weapon can replace it, however it is streamlined, which is something the Clans have failed to do for years.  Clan technology does not need to change it's their tactics and strategy that needs change.  This is where the Inner Sphere wins.

That's basically my opinion.  The Clans still have the technological advantage they just can't get their heads out of their butts.  #P

[Jaim Magnus]

This is starting to change however.  Strict adherence to zellbrigen is almost a thing of the past.  Once that goes out the window, all kinds of new tactics are possible for clan commanders. 

[Moonsword]

Yeah, I did claim it.  I thought I was right.  I was wrong.  94% is just about there and it's armor is capable of taking a 15 point hit.  What's frustrating is when people complain about armor coverage like this, saying a medium with full armor is poor and frail simply because of the class restrictions it has to follow.  It can still take a beating and dish out more than what it can take.

(I'm not trying to insult or have an attitude)

The armor is certainly fine for the size of the 'Mech, no arguing about that.  I'm just making the point that heavies are tougher, so if a Clan medium's dancing with them, the weapons advantage can be offset to a large degree.

[Stormfury]

So maybe you want to "relook" your opinion

The average Cluster has either an Elemental Trinary or a Supernova Binary and an Elemental Binary. 15-20 Points, for 75-100 Elementals.

In the 3060s, most Successor States are deploying two BA Companies (or the regional equivalent thereof) for 24 Squads apiece, leaving them with around 96 troopers per Regiment. Some have more, some have less. The Lyran Alliance were skimping on Battle Armour, but not everyone was.

I remember reading somewhere that the issue was that the Inner Sphere was having trouble finding bodies to fill the suits- the Clans turn out Elementals in batches, while the I.S has to recruit heavy set, big, people.

On the other hand, they have a population base hundreds, possibly even thousands of times larger than the Clans. As long as their recruitment protocols are allowing them to access those statistical outliers, filling the suits is not that much of a problem.

15 hex range, same as a Clan ERML.

I was talking about the Clan R-A/C-5, which I thought had a 6/12/18 profile. It has a 7/14/21 setup instead. My mistake.

Though I hasten to point out:

The HAG-30 requires at least 16 tons to be effective; the R-A/C-5 (Clan or IS) needs just 13. The HAG is, ultimately, another example of ATM-type technology; something new, but not better. The R-A/C, meanwhile, was both new and better than available weapons systems.

Do you forget that CASE comes standard so there is really no reason to worry about something like that?

You are more likely to have a location survive an R-A/C ammo explosion than to survive an LRM blowout due to the way ammo explosions work. This is a minor, but still significant point.

Don't even tell me that it's inferior to the Inner Sphere RAC.

It is an entirely different weapon system that does not add any new capacity to the existing Clan arsenal.

It's a different gun.  They didn't fix anything.  No one fixed anything.  The Clans at least made it lighter and made it shoot much further.

And in those 200 years, no-one thought to install backup circuits or a breach clearing mechanism, either or both of which are on the R-A/C?

A 7 damage hit is nothing to shrug off.  Are you saying the Large Laser has no merit?

No. That is what you are saying. Moonsword addressed the rest of this point, far more cordially than I am inclined to.

No.  Simply because nothing can fight like a Dire Wolf on the Inner Sphere side.  Ever.

Due to heat issues, the Akuma can deliver damage on par with the Dire Wolf Prime. The Devastator can tangle with the A and Widowmaker at range.

There are others (Pillager, Thunder Hawk, Emperor, etc) that also fit the bill, and which were manufactured within a decade of the Clans arriving.

What does that have to do with anything?  They employ Clan Tech with Inner Sphere standards and it hurts.  A lot.

The point is that it is one Galaxy, in a Clan that is supposed to have abandoned Zellbrigen against Inner Sphere forces any way. The simple fact that they have to be sequestered during battle and are ostracised any way is quite telling.

The Inner Sphere has tried to mimic Clan design concepts with the Rakshasa, Komodo, Penetrator, Black Hawk KU, and they all come up short (which is not me saying that the designs are not good) because of inferior weapons.

Of those examples, only the bolded two are correct. The Inner Sphere cannot copy the Timber Wolf's chassis or weapons load, but on the other hand only the Timber Wolf A is making full use of its capacities any way. The Komodo was designed specifically to wipe out Elementals, and its resemblance to the Nova is entirely coincidental. The Penetrator was intended to be a high-intensity fighter capable of extended operations, and an all-energy heavy is hardly a new concept (Marauder-3D, Lancelot, Flashman, etc). The Black Hawk KU is actually an improvement over the Nova chassis-wise, with better armour coverage and more pod space. While it does lose out on range and weapon mass efficiency, I would quite happily back the Black Hawk KU Prime against the Nova Prime.

What I'm really trying to say is that when it comes down to it, Inner Sphere technology is inferior to Clan Technology without a doubt.

On an item-by-item case, yes. In terms of design application or force-wide, the Inner Sphere is out in front by some distance.

This is starting to change however.  Strict adherence to zellbrigen is almost a thing of the past.  Once that goes out the window, all kinds of new tactics are possible for clan commanders. 

Even in the Dark Age, Zellbrigen (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) is the norm for the Clans, not the exception.

[Jaim Magnus]

Even in the Dark Age, Zellbrigen (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) is the norm for the Clans, not the exception.

Hence the use of 'almost.'

[Fear Factory]

The HAG-30 requires at least 16 tons to be effective; the R-A/C-5 (Clan or IS) needs just 13. The HAG is, ultimately, another example of ATM-type technology; something new, but not better. The R-A/C, meanwhile, was both new and better than available weapons systems.

Now that I think of it, the HAG-20 would probably be a better comparison.  While it can't cause the same max damage, if I remember correctly, it weighs the same and has decent ammo per ton and is probably up there with average damage.  HAG's can eat infantry too, I believe?

And in those 200 years, no-one thought to install backup circuits or a breach clearing mechanism, either or both of which are on the R-A/C?

Apparently not.   :D

No. That is what you are saying. Moonsword addressed the rest of this point, far more cordially than I am inclined to.

Ok.  (For the record, I'm not saying that 7 point hits are more effective than 15 and 10 point hits.  I am a fan of concentrated damage)

Due to heat issues, the Akuma can deliver damage on par with the Dire Wolf Prime. The Devastator can tangle with the A and Widowmaker at range.

There are others (Pillager, Thunder Hawk, Emperor, etc) that also fit the bill, and which were manufactured within a decade of the Clans arriving.

Of those examples, only the bolded two are correct. The Inner Sphere cannot copy the Timber Wolf's chassis or weapons load, but on the other hand only the Timber Wolf A is making full use of its capacities any way. The Komodo was designed specifically to wipe out Elementals, and its resemblance to the Nova is entirely coincidental. The Penetrator was intended to be a high-intensity fighter capable of extended operations, and an all-energy heavy is hardly a new concept (Marauder-3D, Lancelot, Flashman, etc). The Black Hawk KU is actually an improvement over the Nova chassis-wise, with better armour coverage and more pod space. While it does lose out on range and weapon mass efficiency, I would quite happily back the Black Hawk KU Prime against the Nova Prime.

The Akuma comes close but I'm still willing to bet that the Dire Wolf will come out on top almost every time.  God forbid the Dire Wolf rides the heat scale...  it packs a lot of power.  The only way the Inner Sphere can bring their raw power is by getting in point blank range, using C3 or spamming gauss rifles (Pillager, Devastator, etc).  Now they have a plethora of niche weapons that are just efficient as hell.

Considering your other examples, Clan OmniMechs usually have some decent backup for the Gauss (ER PPC or ER Large) which do outclass any of the backup weapons on any Inner Sphere design.  I wouldn't waste my time sniping at them though.  It's why I would be crazy enough to risk a Nova Prime or other powerful infighter up close against a chunker like the Devastator.

Also, the Black Hawk KU could be an improvement.  Only to do it they had to make it 10 tons more, 5 million more, complete with a frail IS XL engine and around half of the total firepower.  I'll shun the price tag cop-out because the Clans really don't pay attention to that.  While it's heavier and has more armor, it's more frail, due to its XL.  The Clan Nova can lose a side location and function a little bit longer.  There are much better applications of an IS XL engine, the Wraith being one of them.

The only real improvement is with Battle Value.  You can probably field two of them to take on one Nova Prime with standard Clan skills.  That's where the Nova will have trouble and it's an abstraction of the kind of tactics Clans have to deal with.  Even against other Inner Sphere powerhouses you listed, I'll have to consider the other targets, more than likely outnumbering me, that are going to stop me in my tracks.

On an item-by-item case, yes. In terms of design application or force-wide, the Inner Sphere is out in front by some distance.

Which is what I'm trying to say.  Clan weapons are just better, the problem is they can't figure out how to use them correctly.  This isn't their fault, however.  They just have a different fighting style.

[Moonsword]

Calling the Gauss rifle a niche weapon is a trifle harsh.  The only things it doesn't do are slice bread and kill infantry efficiently.

[Fear Factory]

Calling the Gauss rifle a niche weapon is a trifle harsh.  The only things it doesn't do are slice bread and kill infantry efficiently.

I wasn't referring to the gauss rifle.  More like the Snub-nose PPC and other new weapons.

[Stormfury]

Now that I think of it, the HAG-20 would probably be a better comparison.  While it can't cause the same max damage, if I remember correctly, it weighs the same and has decent ammo per ton and is probably up there with average damage.

No. It has 6 shots per ton of ammunition, meaning you still need at least two (I would prefer three or four) tons of ammunition to be safe. The average damage per shot across the range brackets is 12.77, which the R-A/C-5 can match at triple rate.

HAG's can eat infantry too, I believe?

No. They are a DB weapon, which means that they kill one trooper per cluster that hits.

Apparently not.

Which just strikes me as stupid beyond belief. It was OK as a conceit of the setting or game balance mechanism prior to the introduction of the R-A/C... now it doesn't make sense at all for either tech base.

The Akuma comes close but I'm still willing to bet that the Dire Wolf will come out on top almost every time.  God forbid the Dire Wolf rides the heat scale...  it packs a lot of power.  The only way the Inner Sphere can bring their raw power is by getting in point blank range, using C3 or spamming gauss rifles (Pillager, Devastator, etc).

The Inner Sphere is still more than capable of delivering equivalent damage to existing Clan designs. Yes, their weapons are not as effective... but the designs they have been producing use them in a far more optimum fashion than those of the Clans. For every really good Clan machine, the Inner Sphere has a number to counter with. And that's per House, not total.

Also, the Black Hawk KU could be an improvement.  Only to do it they had to make it 10 tons more, 5 million more, complete with a frail IS XL engine and around half of the total firepower.

That "frail" engine is better protected than the Nova's thanks to being 10 tons heavier. The price is rather irrelevant, given the fact that the Clans don't trade that way and the Inner Sphere pays a mark-up of between 3 and 5 times the base cost of the chassis and have trouble maintaining it. Although the overall firepower is lower, the Black Hawk KU can safely and repeatedly drop up to 54 damage per turn on its opponent, without overheating. Slightly more than the Nova Prime.

There's also the question of access to the design. The Nova is a rare machine for the Clans, out of production for over a century and never terribly popular in-character despite the frequency you see the Prime, S, or H on the tabletop at. The Black Hawk KU is in production at multiple factories and is popular to boot.

The only real improvement is with Battle Value.  You can probably field two of them to take on one Nova Prime with standard Clan skills.

At standard skills, yes. However, as I said, I would back a Black Hawk KU Prime one-on-one against the Nova Prime regardless.

hich is what I'm trying to say.  Clan weapons are just better, the problem is they can't figure out how to use them correctly.  This isn't their fault, however.  They just have a different fighting style.

It's not a tactical issue. It's a design issue. The Clans have gone three or four TRs without getting designs that make the kind of use of their technology the IS has been squeezing out of theirs.

There's a reason machines like the Nova Prime and S, Rifleman IIC and Dire Wolf A are being seen with increasing frequency in-game; those are the kinds of designs that need to be employed in order to attain parity with what the Inner Sphere is fielding, never mind superiority.

[Moonsword]

We're not seeing 'Mechs necessarily (although the Spheroid willing to tackle a Hellstar lightly is a complete idiot), but their tanks are getting significantly tougher in general (the Chalchiuhtotolin is an exception) and one (the Carnivore) is the kind of solid heavy MBT they've never had before.

As I said before, what the Clans can do if they choose to makes my inner Spheroid hide under the bed and weep in terror.

[Istal_Devalis]

Oh, we're definitely seeing mechs made to exploit Clan tech these days.

The Sphinx?: "Hey, let's exploit ERML spam while actually giving it enough heat sinks to fire all of them"

The Hellstar: "How many ERPPC's can we get a mech to safely fire in a turn?"

Getting some REALLY solid vehicles too.
The Balac is going to be FUN to use with a decent crew.  ER missiles on a speedy VTOL?  Most AA fire isnt going to be able to get it in range.

[Moonsword]

I suggest being very careful about positioning if you're doing that.  Several weapons - including ones commonly used for returning fire at sniper VTOLs - either can or can get close.  Most of them can get flak bonuses one way or another, which goes a long way to cutting your speed bonus back to size.  Since the usual offender right there is cluster ammo, which skips merrily past the rotor hit damage nerf (as does an SB Gauss), errors in positioning have a way of going wrong fast.

You're absolutely right that it's not going to be fun to deal with and a Balac (either the ATM 6 or the LRM 15 model) has an impressive throw weight.  I'm just advising due consideration be given to the weaknesses as well as the strengths of the type.

[Urban Kufahl]

The average Cluster has either an Elemental Trinary or a Supernova Binary and an Elemental Binary. 15-20 Points, for 75-100 Elementals.

In the 3060s, most Successor States are deploying two BA Companies (or the regional equivalent thereof) for 24 Squads apiece, leaving them with around 96 troopers per Regiment. Some have more, some have less. The Lyran Alliance were skimping on Battle Armour, but not everyone was.

What state ? Its not the LCAF, not the DCMS, not AFFC........FWLM ? they start production in 3059  :D

[Stormfury]

The Free Worlds League had standard-type Battle Armour by 3054 at the latest. In '55 they had the Achileus, and by '57 the Longinus. They are one of the largest producers of Battle Armour. It appears they were planning on 20 squad Companies (80 suits) to be attached to each front-line unit.

The Draconis Combine was attaching battalion-sized units of Battle Armour (36 Platoons, 144 suits) to front-line forces by '59, and units like the Izanagi Warriors were supported by full regiments (108 Platoons, 432 suits)) of Battle Armour.

The Federated Suns was attaching a Company (16 Squads, 64 suits) at minimum to their many RCTs, with other units receiving a Battalion (64 Squads, 256 suits).

Only the Lyrans and CapCon were deploying less, and even they were attaching double-digit troopers to most, if not all, Regiments.

[Carbon Elasmobranch]

On the subject of Clan Tech and its use in Battle Armor... was there a reason that Bearhunter Superheavy ACs were used in battlesuits when HMGs seem to be just as effective, if not a bit more so?

[Fear Factory]

On the subject of Clan Tech and its use in Battle Armor... was there a reason that Bearhunter Superheavy ACs were used in battlesuits when HMGs seem to be just as effective, if not a bit more so?

It's a weapon that shines in the RPG, not the board game, from what I understand.  However, I think it does 3d6 damage to infantry where the HMG does 2d6 because it is treated as a flamer.  Gives it some merit.

[Moonsword]

It's a weapon that shines in the RPG, not the board game, from what I understand.  However, I think it does 3d6 damage to infantry where the HMG does 2d6 because it is treated as a flamer.  Gives it some merit.

A bit, yes, but not a whole lot given the accuracy issue.

[Stormfury]

The Flamer and HMG both deliver 3D6 damage.

However good it may be in the RPG, BT-wise you are substantially better off with a Heavy Machine Gun instead of a Bearhunter, and if you can spare the 50kgs, the APGR puts both to shame.