Author Topic: Alternative K-F Drive idea: what about fast charge model?  (Read 3166 times)

DevianID

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Re: Alternative K-F Drive idea: what about fast charge model?
« Reply #60 on: 22 November 2023, 00:51:23 »
In that ferry idea, couldnt a civilian scout jumpship already do that if it takes 7 days?  It doesnt seem to be 'quick charging' per the OPs idea.

So far, only a lithium fusion battery really cuts down on charge time, by charging 2 jumps worth at once with fuel/recharge station plus sail.  This would fairly substantially speed up the ferry service.  A charged lithium drive could jump to you, spend the time needed to calculate the perfect pirate point, and jump you to the planet.  So that puts the time at how long it takes to calculate a perfect pirate jump.  Anyone have that figure already crunched?  Cause those hours calculating the pirate point can be used to also get some extra charge time in.

Daryk

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Re: Alternative K-F Drive idea: what about fast charge model?
« Reply #61 on: 22 November 2023, 04:34:27 »
True, but with a full 30 LY range, the Scout could be doing a LOT more than just ferry duty... ;)

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Alternative K-F Drive idea: what about fast charge model?
« Reply #62 on: 22 November 2023, 05:00:29 »
apparently goods move between star systems on methods other than jumpships, since the following nations have no shipyards at all:

Taurian Concordat
Magistracy of Canopus
Capellan Confederation

shall we go on?  More don't, than do.

so obviously, they can't be that important or that useful.  maybe the jumpships are breeding somewhere in the background like Farscape's Leviathans...

There may actually be an answer to this hidden in Jihad Final Reckonin'

Terra.

It's mentioned very briefly that after the war the Belts were starting up jumpship production again, promising outputs that were described as fantastical in the modern era or fairly typical for the Star League era. It could be that the Houses failed to rebuild domestic production because it was just cheaper to buy jumpships from Terra.

It's short sighted and literally ties a huge sector of their economy to the whims of the republic, but, well, they'd already done that once when they decided to let Comstar run the HPG network... again... on Comstar's pinky promise that they would behave themselves this time.
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idea weenie

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Re: Alternative K-F Drive idea: what about fast charge model?
« Reply #63 on: 22 November 2023, 06:54:03 »
There may actually be an answer to this hidden in Jihad Final Reckonin'

Terra.

It's mentioned very briefly that after the war the Belts were starting up jumpship production again, promising outputs that were described as fantastical in the modern era or fairly typical for the Star League era. It could be that the Houses failed to rebuild domestic production because it was just cheaper to buy jumpships from Terra.

It's short sighted and literally ties a huge sector of their economy to the whims of the republic, but, well, they'd already done that once when they decided to let Comstar run the HPG network... again... on Comstar's pinky promise that they would behave themselves this time.

Or the Belters wee completely separate from Comstar, but then The Wall went up and the Belters were trapped?  If the Belters tried to jump from inside The Wall to another system protected by The Wall, their Jumpship would not be on the expected list and get 'returned to sender'.

Cannonshop

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Re: Alternative K-F Drive idea: what about fast charge model?
« Reply #64 on: 22 November 2023, 10:19:10 »
My issue with the in-system ferry is how it interacts with fuel/charging versus stock torchdrive.  Like, if the ferry is moving dropships insystem, a thing designed to move on its own, how efficient they are runs into how efficient torchships are.  Its like building a cargo ship to move slightly smaller cargo ships that would otherwise sail themselves just fine.

Like Sol/terra is a very well traveled system.  If a ferry would work anywhere it would be there.  The travel time is only 9-10 days from earth to zenith with a dropship.  The cost of a dropship moving itself is 10 burn days is the same as 10 burn days of fuel you dump with reactor charging an engine, but the dropship has a very low tonnage cost per day.  Now a tiny ferry drive rated to 1 LY presumably is so tiny it can affordably transport multiple dropships cheaper then they can move themselves.  Also, if the drive is too efficient, then 1ly warships, which would quickcharge their way across conventional 30ly leaps, would have massively more room for weapons and armor at a fraction of the cost, only spending a little longer making big jumps but having far too great an efficiency once in system.

If the ferry is more efficient in both speed (charging time) and fuel (transporting multiple big civilian droppers for less fuel then the droppers would spend) then we wouldnt see dropships with interplanetary drives in the same manner.  The ferry would be the defacto solution.  Already, we can use civvy jumpships to spend 183 hours charging with a solar sail to bypass the dropship transit time, so the ferry needs to also be more efficient then civilian jumpers with a sail.

I dont see a great design space for the ferry without it just completely taking over how all travel is done.

The efficiencies don't pile up if you only have one inhabited world in a system, or in systems without extensive deep-system economies.  (aka places with Belters or Belter equivalents).  The reason is time.

y'see, you can't go higher than one gee if you're carrying people any significant distance and want to deliver them alive and in good health.

that right there, limits your thrust duration, and if it takes a week under thrust (or two, or four)  a ferry system pays for itself, presuming you have two of them or more to swap out.

particularly if you're developing a full in system economy rather than boutique trips.

One way to consider this, is the difference in efficiencies between railways, and automobiles, when you start looking at continental length trips versus urban-core-to-the-suburbs.  Your Econoline van might seem more efficient-until you have to drive from Minneapolis to Los Angeles on a regular basis, rather than once in a year.

same thing here; for systems with very long distances between points and planets, being able to make that trip in under two weeks or less than a month really stacks up, but if your jump limit is only 7 days? well...why woudn't you just run torch ships to the planet and back?  It's the more sensible approach!

Kowloon's jump limit is four weeks.  That's a month between the primary planet, and the Zenith or Nadir.  The closer points include the planetary L1, (several days) Planet-Moon L1 (four to six hours) or the hot point between the two stars (better bring your sunscreen) which is still pretty close to a month at standard one-gee driving.

THAT system needs a Ferry, because your emergency supplies can expire before you arrive, see?  This ain't a system you'll need at somewhere like New Avalon, because the distance is reasonable from the Zenith/Nadir or the L1, and there isn't a lot of development out-system into places like the local Kuiper belt, gas giants with Moons, etc.

chalk it up to New Avalon being a nice place, with a simple geometry that is one of the main reasons it became an Administrative Capital for an interstellar empire.

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AlphaMirage

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Re: Alternative K-F Drive idea: what about fast charge model?
« Reply #65 on: 22 November 2023, 10:45:14 »
The thing with long transit times is that systems should have transshipment stations at the Z/N points and regular convoy of dropships (if possible unmanned drones or autonomous robots that can go faster than manned ships, or Mass Driver 'satellites') going to and from the planet's surface or other deep space settlements there so there is a continuous stream of incoming cargo. Jumping into the L-1 from the Z/N can be done during emergencies or with prior authorization from the planetary authority but Jumpships probably should be continuing on their regularly chartered voyage out of system as much as possible to ensure you get the best use out of their unique abilities.

Charistoph

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Re: Alternative K-F Drive idea: what about fast charge model?
« Reply #66 on: 22 November 2023, 13:03:24 »
So far, only a lithium fusion battery really cuts down on charge time...

Oh, not true.  Quick-Charging has been an option for a VERY long time (at least as early as BattleSpace).  This allows for the charging of the Core in as little as 16 hours, though that quick of a time requires a VERY good crew to just have a 1/36 of not having a MisJump.

For an average crew to Quick-Charge without an extreme chance of Mis-Jumping, you're looking at somewhere between 75 and 124 hours (for a 4-5 Piloting Skill Crew).  If they wanted to Quick-Charge with the smallest chance of not MisJumping you're looking at 18-19 hours of Quick-Charging.

This can be done with the fusion engine or even just getting closer to the star.
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Maingunnery

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Re: Alternative K-F Drive idea: what about fast charge model?
« Reply #67 on: 22 November 2023, 13:48:27 »
There may actually be an answer to this hidden in Jihad Final Reckonin'

Terra.

It's mentioned very briefly that after the war the Belts were starting up jumpship production again, promising outputs that were described as fantastical in the modern era or fairly typical for the Star League era. It could be that the Houses failed to rebuild domestic production because it was just cheaper to buy jumpships from Terra.

It's short sighted and literally ties a huge sector of their economy to the whims of the republic, but, well, they'd already done that once when they decided to let Comstar run the HPG network... again... on Comstar's pinky promise that they would behave themselves this time.
Nothing new really. Even in RL most nations do not build essential transport assets (such as cargo aircraft, trains, container-ships, etc) but just buy them on the existing market. But I do expect that all notable nations have maintenance slips for JumpShips that are only good enough for maintenance and basic repairs, and such facilities are not worth mentioning in an objectives document.
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