Author Topic: A swing at infantry house rules and an invitation for suggestions on same  (Read 2888 times)

beachhead1985

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Before I begin; I'm not sure why I'm doing this. Clearing an old project off my backlog, I suppose?

True; I was vaugely-okay with how infantry were handled prior to the Total Warfare-series books, in that while they were incredibly abstract, they were sort-of the okayest option compared to not using infantry. I don't recall seeing any construction rules for infantry from before The TW books, either. You just kinda...got the occasional new platoon type...I dunno, maybe I'm wrong?

Anyways; sure, I'm doing this, so it goes without saying that I don't like the current system...it's overly complex, but offers nothing over the abstract platoons and it has that funny thing where the same weapon works differently on battle armour than it does for infantry. I haven't read Ghosts of Oberdee, either, but you can't help be aware of it if you crack the rules.

I think there is also something about multiplying base damage for crew? I have no idea. It's just a mess. So if it's already a mess, may as well make my own mess, I suppose.

But, I also never play anymore. Anything. I got tired of losing, really. Wargames, RPGs, anything. Dice hate me. So I don't think I'll ever actually *play* a game of battletech...or anything else again, ever. I'm just tired of it. So in terms of these rules mattering, even to me? Meh. I guess I just like some consistancy in how I enjoy the game in writing about my own little AU and doing other things. Maybe someday I'll advance my idea of Battletech, without die rolls, where you just compare numbers, but probably not. I don't think I'd enjoy that either.

Anyway; that's my intro done, here is what I've come up with.

***

“Infantry” units in battletech* are those formed of simple and not-so-simple people; soft, squishy human beings and their non-human (animal and robotic) allies.
 
Other units; Mechs, tanks, ect., might call them “Crunchies”, “Legs”, “PBIs” or any of a dozen other derisive names. But they have their uses.
 
“Infantry” units encompass many different types of soldiers, specialists and irregulars; not just real or “true” infantry.

The main advantages of Infantry units are:
-Low cost, relative to other unit types in most respects (but not food, housing or medical expenses)
-flexibility, and;
-“trickiness”, compared to the direct nature of most other unit types

The first thing to decide is what your infantry unit will be for; what their mission or purpose will be.

***

After that comes the size or the unit.
 
In BattleTech*, the basic unit size for infantry is called a “Platoon” at this stage for simplicity’s sake, but you can give yours whatever name you like. For our purposes; a platoon is made up of squads, sections or some other kind of sub-unit and the platoon itself forms a sub-unit of the company. The platoon is the rough equivalent in organization and military responsibility to a lance of tanks, mechs or aerofighters.
 
How big your “Platoon” is, is up to you, but above a certain size; you’ll probably find you may as well call it a “Company” instead and break it down into other platoons. In Canon, the Marians have the largest “Platoons” in their infantry centuries of up to 100 troops in ten squads of ten. But this plays in two “sub-platoons” of 50. You might also think of any group of 2 or more squads or sections (or “Contubernia”, in this case) as a platoon.
 
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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Your unit can be any size, but will be played as separate units of 50 or less. These sub-platoons should be as close to the same size as possible for ease of play, but need not be if you so insist.
 
   Once you have this basic number, determine how many, if any “sub-platoons” you will need. This determines your “frontage”, or the number of hexes your platoon occupies or controls when arrayed in battle. An infantry platoon or sub-platoon may choose or not choose to allow another unit to share the same hex with them, so long as they are at least 20 in number. They can even attempt to over-run other units, including other infantry units in close-quarter combat and force them out of a given hex, if they are capable of movement.

***

This is all for right now, but if you have any feedback, let me know.

I'm experimenting with the visual aids and perhaps some others will get something out of the layouts of the various infantry units common to the game.

Additionally...yeah...I use or used to use, or rather; "headcanon" a 100m hex. I found that it really fixed a lot of my personal agony over ranges in BT. I used the same thing with my big artillery article for Der Tag, but I find that it also really shines with the infantry stuff.

My turns don't have a value in second attached to them either, but 30m was already too far to move an infantry unit every 6-10 seconds anyways, so no biggee there for me.

More next time and bye for now.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Failure16

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If you are going to redo the infantry rules, make the squad the basic element, with the ability to stack four in a hex as desired.

Give them the standard +2THM and keep the movement rules as-is with the original Foot, Jump, Motorized modes (eradicating Mechanized, natch). Give infantry a threshold mechanic like the new Battlefield Support rules, with preference given to AP weapons as they presently exist. Allow them to Take Cover vice movement for a turn for an additional +1 or 2 THM. And Dig-in for an additional+1THM/6 Turns. Keep the infantry-in-the-open damage penalty with allowances for the new thresholding paradigm.

Boil down the basic weaponry to a set number with slight modifiers departing from the baseline Ballistic Rifle:  SMG (which now will encompass your short-ranged weaponry), Laser Rifle, Gyrojet, etc. Add in a Support Weapon (limited to a light machine gun or squad automatic weapon here) which will have an anti-armor and anti-personnel value, with an additional modifier for underbarrel-grenade launchers, etc. These are your Rifle Squads. The range of a pure Rifle Team will be the range of the Rifle; the inclusion of a SW will give the RT a range of the Rifle and SW divided by two.

Heavy Weapons Teams will get the heavier, crew-served weapons that have a BattleTech stat-line, as they did in the original TRO 3026 (and still do, I imagine, in TW or wherever infantry is covered in its basic form). If desired, give them a +3THM because they are only 2-3 personnel. They move as a Rifle Team for game purposes, and function as a mobile BT weapon. If you want to keep extra rules to a minimum, just treat them like a Called Shot.

Special Teams will be medics, platoon headquarters, FOs, etc. You want your infantry to do things like call for fire, they need a ST/HQ. You want them to spot for SG LRMs or Arrow IV, bring an ST/FO. Want to have a chance to resurrect a "destroyed" team, get a ST/Medic to them and roll a 10+ on 2D6--or double their chances in a campaign of returning to duty post-game. Want to pick your way through a minefield, bring an ST/CE.

Use boarding rules for CQB. Maybe keep the Anti-'Mech rules as-is without the penalty since we have shifted the numbers-paradigm (i.e. keep the as-is platoon numbers for the now-squad) but leave it there since we are no longer tracking individual infantrymen.

As an optional rule, have an infantry-element that has taken fire (sustained even a non-damaging attack) in the previous turn be unable to move without a roll from a ST/HQ.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth,                                And through villages of ether
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.                   Oh, my crucifixion comes
When I needed something good.                                         One day we'll reveal the truth,                    Will you sing my hallelujah?
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.      That one will die before he gets there.       Will you tell me when it's done?
But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra                                                      --C. Love
--A. Duritz

AlphaMirage

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My proposal would be similar to failures' with slight differences. I'm going to use TacOps to the fullest

Always Option
A 'Hustle' or double move option will be available to all 'un-encumbered' (that is without Heavy Armor or a pair of heavy weapons) foot/motorized troops at the cost of their attack for the turn.

Main Focus
Heavy Weapon Teams are the name of the game on the battlefield. Standard and TacOps rules apply for squad deployment (from 5-10 Troopers) with appropriate modifiers for digging in, heavy armor (which halves damage but eliminates the 'hustle' double move option and imposes penalties on climbing/swarm attacks), and being a small target.

For the Support Weapons. If you have 1 your squad (Medium Infantry) can move and shoot. If you have 2 (Heavy Infantry) you must choose one and maintain enough crew for those heavy weapons or be dropped down to Medium Infantry. Infantry Missile Launchers may select ANY LRM, Mech Mortar (yes I am boosting the Heavy Mortar to a MM/1 equivalent), or SRM ammo type but need to mark it (like Bombs).

There is also an option for a support weapon free ('Light Infantry') squad equipped with rifles. These Light Infantry can choose either a pair of grenades (choose types, similar effect to VGL), or an OS Weapon [Dragonsbane analog (DCL or Disposable Chemical Laser), MANPADS, and LAW-equivalent.] You get one (DCL/LAW/MANPADS), or two (Grenade) salvos (choose and roll on Clusters) then you're out. This keeps them pretty balanced with enough firepower to hurt a heavy adversary (or Mechanized Team) but not enough to probably overwhelm it.


Motorized Troops move slightly faster than foot troops, can go into and through buildings, cannot swarm (unless they dismount) but follow other foot trooper rules.


Mechanized Troops can move and shoot all the time (even with two support weapons), move faster than motorized. They do not gain a benefit from heavy armor because they take damage like vehicles and thus immune to AP fire but cannot swarm or go into buildings (unless they dismount).

Additionally Mech-Inf may sacrifice their support weaponry to instead represent Field Guns or MLRS. All of these types suffer a half-speed mobility penalty, are limited to 1 ton/squaddie and only have a half ton of ammo. Hovers max out at 5 squaddies so they are limited to 5 tons. Setting up these weapons requires a turn without a move during which and while in operation they are regarded as immobile targets, without infantry mods. Since squads top out at 10 this would limit them to the AC/5s variants or nothing larger than an MRM-30 (which would be terrifying) while Hovers can deploy LRM-10s.


Jump Infantry cannot use heavy armor and may only use AP grade weapons and disposables, but can jump, go through and into buildings, and get a bonus to swarm.


Everyone beside the Weapon Operator (Typically the Squad Leader) is also an ammo carrier/rifleman with basic weapons that have AP stat-lines and rules. Each trooper carries 2 reloads for the squad's support weapon type, or a disposable weapon/pair of grenades.

This would add a lot more options to the infantry squads as everything has some kind of trade-off which makes them dynamic enough to pose a threat but eliminates a lot of the weird fractional accounting and rounding in Tech Manual built troops. It also gives each infantry 'type' a distinct identity and role to perform on the battlefield.

Daryk

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One tweak (to start) F16: five squads, not four can be stacked in a hex.  You'd break some ComStar and all clanner units if you limited it to four.

AlphaMirage

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We could just abstract that away with <=10 man squads. 36 and 25 can be included in 4x10.

DevianID

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I am a huge fan of the battle droids infantry squad as the basic element.  This meshes with squads of battlearmor being the basic element.  For motorized, they have a jeep squad, which works very well as any number of barely armored vees infantry fight in at the expense of entering dense terrain.  They are squads with either a MGUN or SRM2, get a +2 bonus to avoid being hit (+1 for jeep), but any hit to the squad takes them out of the fight (5 damage needed for jeep).  No need for any record keeping or anything, you either hit the squad weapon, wounded enough of them, broke their morale, or killed them all.  Advanced rules for 'destroyed/injured versus dead', just like normal, would apply for campaign purposes. 

One big thing is that infantry use mech weapons, not odd abstract weapons.  ATOW does a terrible job converting damage from infantry scale to mech scale... the explosives and to a lesser extent burst fire are just ridiculously damaging in a BAR versus AP system, as raw damage trumps armor.  Like a rapid fire gun, 1 bullet is completely stopped, but 10 bullets hitting (MOS is high), and you can punch right through the most powerful armor in the game.

The other really good way to do infantry is to ignore all infantry combat/construction rules, and just build them exactly like battle armor.  Except each point of armor is a soldier.  This works really well, as you roll randomly to hit which squad, and damage doesnt carry over from 1 squad to another.  Infantry platoons used in this way also scale well, as you can more easily get 36 total bubble platoons (comstar) or 100 bubble platoons, all by emulating battle armor, all the way down to 5 man PA(L) equivalent troops.  This does mean infantry are 'just' battle armor with a very high body count/attrition, but isnt that supposed to be the case?  The battle armor rules are pretty solid and fair for most gameplay purposes too, so if you dont want the really stripped down Battledroids style abstract infantry, the battle armor rules are a good bet to make functional combat infantry that works in battletech scale.

Daryk

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The AToW Companion formula does a better job of abstracting burst fire, in my opinion.

beachhead1985

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This can be approached in one of two ways; you can lay out the number of troops and attachments first, or you can decide on the physical space and mass this unit will take up when transported and work backwards from there.
 
   Either way; you need to know the basic transport mass for moving this unit for short distances and periods of time (transporting over long distances, requiring living quarters will be handled later), and you need to know your infantry unit’s “frontage”, or how many hexes it will control.
 
Find this worked out here, with the fractions for single soldiers easy enough to work out.
 
Up to 10 Troops/Ton as foot infantry
7/Ton for Jump
3/Ton for generalized Motorized
1/ton for Mechanized

General Information
 
Infantry units may be formatted on the map “Concentrated” with up to 50 members in a single hex, or as few as seven troops “Dispersed” across multiple, adjoining hexes. Dispersed units gain an additional +1 to be hit by hostiles (increasing to +2, if fewer than 5 soldiers in a hex and +3 if a single soldier), but below 20 troops in a hex, cannot exercise control over it in terms of sharing it with hostile units; those units can simply move through the hex as per normal, or attempt to, if an infantry unit-type.
 
Members of a unit may additionally be detached and moved separately from the rest of the unit as a sub-unit, but when this is done; their effective infantry skill is one less than it should be. They are also more vulnerable and much weaker, because there are fewer of them. Detached units gain the same additional +1 to-hit penalty as if they were dispersed.
 
A detached sub-unit may be attached to another unit and when this is done, they adopt the infantry skill of the gaining unit and act as a part of that unit unless/until detached again.
 
Units, which, though casualties drop below seven soldiers in a hex, take a +1 penalty to their infantry skill, as if they had been detached, because they are too dispersed to support each other effectively. Just as if they had been detached. Staying above seven models spread across a 100m-wide hex prevents this.
 
Units detached or through casualties, which are below three troops in a hex lose half their infantry skill, unless they are a special type, like Snipers; who are trained to operate in small units or alone.
 
Infantry units use their normal movement profile to concentrate, disperse or attach, as needed. A unit gaining a detached sub-unit can only move so far in their movement as their attachment has left in movement points, without them becoming detached again.
 
Units of different movement types may join each other and act as one, but they move at the rate of their slowest members and do not spread any special abilities to the gaining unit. But the attachments may still act independently within the gaining unit as they could previously. A detachment jump troop unit can jump to the top of a building, while their gaining unit occupies it, or clears it from the bottom-up, for instance. Or a medic could treat casualties, or a Mechanized attachment would still benefit from the protection and firepower of their vehicle(s), ect.
 
The Infantry Skill of a unit is determined by averaging the unmodified skills of the two components by the number of total soldiers in the force and rounding as appropriate.
 
Infantry, including their heavy and support weapons have no “Facing” as other types of units do.
Infantry units may freely engage as many targets as they have without additional penalty for additional attacks, so long as they have 1-point groups of damage to potentially allocate, with support weapons allocated separately.
 
Damage from Infantry units is allocated separately for support weapons; by the weapon, in other words, but all other damage is allocated in 1, 2 or 5-pt groups as appropriate and agreed upon by the players. But hits are rolled for 1 point of damage at a time. The flexibility in allocation is an aide to speed of play, but a major advantage of infantry is their individual marksmanship, modeled by dispersed hit allocation. So, hits are rolled one point at a time, but locations allocated in groups of 1,2 or 5 points as agreed upon by the players to speed play.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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Basic Infantry Abilities:

May move and shoot or attempt an anti-mech attack/swarm every turn.
 
Basic foot movement is 1 hex/turn
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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Infantry are hard to hit:
 
An individual +2 roll is made to hit each soldier you then wound/kill (does not apply to anti-infantry weapons or area of effect weapons)
 
This increases to +3 if they are moving on foot (+1 w. anti-infantry weapon special ability). +4 if conducting an anti-mech attack/swarm on you, or +3 if swarming/making an anti-mech attack on another unit (no help from anti-infantry special ability here). In the latter case, missed attacks strike the other unit. Blast/burst attacks (AC, MG, Flamers, Missiles, ect) affect both if either target is hit.

Infantry are more difficult to detect:+2 to your basic sensor rolls for foot infantry or jump infantry moving on foot, increasing to +3 while stationary. +1 for Motorized troops while static.

Mechanized, Motorized, Jump and other special types of infantry have other special rules, discussed below.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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Infantry have their own “Infantry Skill” used for all rolls, unless otherwise stated.

Infantry are particularly vulnerable to “Splash Damage” weapons. These do not have to detect them to hit them, they skip the roll to-hit and go directly to rolling to hit individual soldiers.
 
Range and attacks are calculated based on the hex from which the attack comes. As a single infantry unit can occupy multiple contiguous or non-contiguous hexes, this provides various options, but does mean that only weapons located with their operators in a given hex can make an attack, forcing the user to recalculate attack values based on the soldiers in a given hex. You can place all your support weapons in a given hex or decide where a given weapon is located in the platoon, but these will then be uniquely vulnerable to attack and damage from where they are located.
 
Normally, it is assumed that support weapons are distributed appropriately with their squads through the hexes they occupy. When a detached squad, or all the troops in a given hex are wiped out, unless the rest of the unit moves into that hex, their weapons; particularly the support weapons are considered lost with their users.

***

Encumbrance
 
Infantry are considered encumbered, when their unit has weapons, equipment or conditions, which reduce their mobility or tactical options.
 
An Encumbered unit can either move or shoot if they are foot infantry and cannot perform Anti-Mech/Swarm attacks
 
Very Encumbered units can only move every-other turn, at most and cannot perform swarm or anti-mech attacks.
 
If one member of a unit is encumbered, then they all are, unless those members that are encumbered are detached, allowed to straggle behind, in other words and keep up as best they can.

***

Infantry Long Arms
 
The basic weapon of an infantry unit are it’s Long Arms: ranged, non-support weapons, for our purposes like rifles, sub-machineguns and shotguns.
 
Long Arm attacks are determined not by whether they hit or miss, but by whether the fire is effective or not.
 
If you want to, you can give each and every member of the unit a different type of Long Arm weapon.
 
They will be grouped for game purposes into attacks based on their range brackets and special abilities.
 
After we’ve determined all the effective/ineffective fire, then we add the damage up and round it. It is then distributed in 1pt groups on the target. Long Arm damage is often highly fractional until it is rounded. You cannot save rounded-off damage to apply on subsequent attacks or at a later time. This works for allocating damage in point-groups.
 
Long Arm attacks are broken down, for simplicity into range/damage groups of like-range and effects.
 
Long Arm ammunition is not normally tracked.

***

Sidearms
 
Infantry may likewise be equipped with sidearms.
 
These are shooting weapons, only able to engage adjacent targets or targets in the same hex. They may be employed twice a turn; in the shooting phase and the close-quarter battle phase.
 
Some soldiers might only have a sidearm, if you so wish. Sidearms can be fired on the move, in confined spaces and at close quarters.
 
Only effective and significant sidearms need to be mentioned. Given the chance, all soldiers will generally choose to pack some kind of backup pistol or similar weapon. Sidearm ammo is not tracked.
Sidearms are grouped for damage purposes much like Long Arms.
 
Troops with both a sidearm and another weapon may choose to attack with the sidearm in the close-quarter battle phase.

***

Support Weapons
 
Support weapons are those designed to support the efforts of the unit in battle. They often form the bulk of the unit’s firepower and may be fired in the same turn a unit moves.
 
There is no real limit besides cost for the number of support weapons a unit may have. However; members of the unit equipped with support weapons may not conduct anti-mech or swarm attacks.
 
Note that as a practical matter; some Long Arm weapons act as support weapons within the unit, in a tactical sense, while not meeting the standard for a support weapon in game-terms.
 
Many support weapons are “Crew-Served” meaning they require a primary operator and a given number of assistants assigned to function. The crew may have other weapons that are not crew-served. No member of an infantry unit may serve simultaneously on two or more weapon crews, but they may conduct anti-mech and swarm attacks, so long as they are not the primary weapons/equipment operator. Support weapons can be operated without enough crew, but when they are; they cannot be moved and fired every turn. This can be alleviated by simply assigning another crew-member from the same or an attached unit.

Some support weapons are encumbering; these cannot be fired on a turn the unit moved. Support weapons crews can employ their other weapons within limitations. They can all use their sidearms in CQB, but the gunner may not use a long arm on any turn they fire the support weapon. This does mean they can use their long arms on turns they move, but can’t fire the support weapon when that weapon is encumbering.
 
Support weapon ammo is not normally tracked and they may or may not be tracked for range and damage purposes like Long Arm weapons are, handled on a case-by-case basis.

***

Heavy Weapons
 
Heavy Weapons form the bulk of most professional infantry unit’s hitting power. Their static nature when firing makes them more difficult to employ, tactically than most other types of weapons.
Heavy weapons cannot be moved and fired in the same turn. Members of heavy weapons crews equipped with weapons other than side-arms automatically count as encumbered.
 
Members of heavy weapons crews (all of them), may conduct anti-mech and swarm attacks, but not in the same turn the weapon is used. Losing Heavy Weapons crew-members is rough. If additional crew cannot be found and re-assigned as with a support weapon, then the heavy weapon cannot be moved and will be lost or abandoned, if the unit needs to move.
 
As a static piece, heavy weapons can be operated by single crew, but at a penalty to the unit infantry skill equal to the number of crew-members they are short, or who have been lost in action.
 
Heavy weapons ammo may be tracked in some circumstances, but it is an exception.
 
The heavy weapons in a given unit are normally handled as separate attacks for each weapon.
 
The rules for long arms and sidearms in a heavy weapons crew are the same as for support weapons.

***

Auxiliary Weapons
 
Some weapons incorporate a secondary weapon, usually of a different kind. Members of the unit so equipped can use both in a turn, but heavy and support weapons so equipped do not gain the game-advantages of being able to conduct anti-mech or swarm attacks.
 
Auxiliary weapon ammunition is not normally tracked, but they are tracked for range and damage, otherwise as Long Arm.

***

Grenades
 
Units equipped with grenades may use them if they are adjacent or share space with an enemy unit or objective they wish to attack. They may do this offensively or defensively in addition to attacks which are not anti-mech or swarm attacks.
 
A grenade attack is either made or not made based on the idea of a significant number of a given unit so equipped being willing and able to use them. They are not normally broken up, per member, but instead handled like a single missile-type attack, with varied damage.
 
A unit may normally make only one effective grenade attack in a turn.
 
A Unit may only make a given number of grenade attacks. This is handed as grenades having limited ammunition. It may be assumed that grenades are being used for less-coordinated attacks when appropriate and that most infantry units intending to fight have them. Grenade attacks are for units making massed attacks and supplied amply with such tools.
 
Grenades are not handled in as detailed a fashion as other infantry weapons in BattleTech*.

***

Disposables
 
These are limited-use additional weapons or equipment carried by units. They constitute a special attack, tracked as a form of ammunition, which may or may not be encumbering at some level.
 
Using Disposables replaces the use of other weapons for a number of unit members so -equipped. A controlling player may normally choose to use some, all or none of his disposables at any given opportunity in the shooting or CQB phase, as laid out in the weapon’s description.
 
Some disposables; such as demolition charges may be added to other attacks, but they are normally an either-or proposition.
 
Disposables are each handled as separate attacks or uses, like heavy and support weapons.
 
***

Hand to hand weapons/attacks
 
Hand to hand weapons provide an additional attack value which may be used in CQB, against and between units fighting in hand to hand with other infantry-type units. This includes battlearmour and all other infantry-types.
 
Hand to hand attacks are handled as one attack, but rolled as an opposed roll comparing infantry skill ratings and the damage determined on the missile-hits table. There is a table provided for the number of troops left in a platoon and the base hand to hand damage they can do. All Infantry have some degree of hand to hand damage they can deal.
 
Hand-to-hand attacks, however work both ways and depending on the opposed skill check, both units may or likely; *will* take damage.
 
There is a difference between hand-to-hand attacks and hand-to-hand defence. A given unit may only make one hand-to-hand attack per turn, but will make as many hand-to-hand defence checks as they receive in attacks. However, each check they fail results in a +1 penalty to their next opposed skill check unit the end of the turn.

Hand to hand weapons cannot normally be used against non-infantry units, but certain kinds of weapons or tools may have a textual or fluff application in anti-mech attacks, boarding actions, urban warfare, ect.
 
For these purposes; battlearmour and protomechs count as infantry and can attack and be attacked in this way.

***


 

Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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Field Guns and Field Artillery
 
These are vehicle-scale weapons in a form which can be manually-operated by infantry units to a greater or lesser extent.
 
Field Guns and Field Artillery differ mainly in how they are meant to be employed; field guns are direct-fired, while field-artillery may be direct-fired at nearby targets, but are mainly meant for “Indirect” employment against targets more than one map away.
 
Units equipped with these kinds of weapons are effectively immobile if they are not provided with transportation in some way. These may be from units equipped with mechanized or motorized capabilities, or larger vehicles capable of towing the weapons at-issue and transporting the crews.
 
At their simplest; Field Guns and artillery are larger ballistic and artillery weapons (Not things like machineguns, in other words) able to be operated and handled in the field by infantry soldiers. These soldiers may be equipped with other weapon types (and they should be!), but manning the big guns requires (at heart), one unit member, per ton of weapon. Field Gun and Field Artillery units are considered “Special Infantry” and thus have a normal infantry skill and their “Big Guns” skill.
 
So, an AC/5 Field Gun requires a basic crew of eight members. This crew receives a bonus ton of ammunition (20 shots in this case; special ammo bay limits do not apply, but caseless bonuses do).
 
A Thumper Field Artillery Piece needs a crew of 15 to function. Almost twice what the AC/5 does. They still get the basic ton-allotment of ammunition as well; another 20 shots in this case.
 
Artillery “Cannon” count as field guns for our purposes.
 
As-is, neither is mobile on the tabletop. Both have the ability for their crews to chose to man the gun or fight as infantry. They can even have extra crew members (if they have them), fight as infantry, simultaneously to firing the gun. Even if they are heavy or support weapons operators, and even if they do not have enough spare crew. An exception to the crew-served weapons rules above that applies only to field guns and field artillery. Field gun and field artillery crews may also engage in hand-to-hand defence, as normal infantry, but lose the ability to fire the gun on the turn they do, unless they have already fired.
 
Both can vary their ammo-load by the shot, whereas another unit like a mech or tank would need to do it by the ammo-lot. So, the Thumper might have ten-rounds of High Explosive (The standard artillery ammunition), five of smoke, four of incendiary and one copperhead round. The only difference between the two crews at this point is that the range for the Thumper is in Maps and the range for the AC/5 is in hexes. The normal rules for direct-fire of artillery still apply here.
 
Additional ammo may be dropped, or may have been dropped by supporting units on the gun position and this may be used and must be accounted for as well, but absent vehicles; it cannot be moved, in-game. Units that can move can take the basic single-ton-equivalent lot with them, so long as they have it, but can only load one additional ton per turn and only take as much as they have cargo space for. The rest must be abandoned when they move off the gun position.
 
In both cases, these weapons are dedicated field guns/field artillery. The AC/5 does not really weigh 8 tons, nor the Thumper fifteen. Capturing either gun, gets you a field gun or artillery, not a weapon you can slap in to replace a weapon on a vehicle. However, you can use them to repair damaged vehicle weapons. Instead; much of the mass and equipment is missing or modified to be replaced or operated by the gun crew.
 
Unlike other “Infantry” types, Field Guns and Field Artillery do have a “Facing” that need to be considered and can only change it by one hex-side a turn. In-action, the facing gives an arc of fire like a fixed (non-turreted) vehicle weapon. This does not apply to the unit’s infantry weaponry, however.
 
A single gun and crew may be a unit on their own. They are handled, otherwise as immobile infantry. They can and maybe should have extra members; if they lose a crew-member, they lose the ability to fire the gun every turn. At up to 50% casualties in the gun crew, this means firing the gun that is their purpose every-other turn. From 49-25%, it’s every 3rd turn and below 25%, the gun is effectively inoperative.  So extra crew-members in the unit can be very useful. They can do more than act as ablative armour, however; although no amount of extra crew-member can make the gun shoot faster than once a turn.
 
Field guns and artillery can be made “Auxiliary”-propelled, granting the unit a movement of 1, but this requires an extra crew-member for every 10 tons of mass of the weapon in question, increases cost by 30% and the tech base/complexity/availability by one step. Auxiliary-propelled Field Guns and Artillery can change facings by up to two hex-sides a turn, but weigh 20% more for every ten tons of the base weapon for towing purposes.
 
If it matters; the engines powering Aux-propelled guns and artillery are very small, just powerful enough to manage a modest hill or help drag the gun up a big one. They often require fuel and when they do; the tank is very small and they aren’t always meant to be run all the time. In-position, they usually run on batteries or act as generators themselves. The effective driving range is typically between 50 and 100km under normal conditions.
 
Auxiliary-propelled guns move as small wheeled vehicles up to 15 tons of mass of the original gun; allowing them to move through light woods and similar terrain. Above 15 tons, they are treated as wheeled vehicles for movement purposes.
 
Normally, Field Guns and Artillery are incapable of engaging airborne targets; they simply aren’t made for it, they are not as responsive as the weapons mounted on mechs and vehicles. But for the cost of an additional crew-member per five-tons (round) of what the gun would weigh if it were a mech or vehicle-weapon, a given field gun or artillery can be fielded as a “Dual-threat” gun, capable of engaging air and ground targets.
 
Such weapons count as heavier for towing purposes at the rate of 20%, but they also return to not needing set facings like more common infantry. Cost, however increases by 50% over the base weapon and complexity/tech-base by one and availability by two-steps. Field Guns and artillery can be had as auxiliary-propelled dual-threat guns as well, but this is rare as the additional cost (+75% total) makes their acquisition often uneconomical. They are also more complex at two steps, require higher technology (one step) and much less common (three steps). For towing purposes, they are 50% heavier than they would be as normal field guns.
 
A much more easily realized use for that extra crew member is additional ammunition. Additional crew members allocated for this purpose provide an extra 20% more ammunition, above the basic ton, each. However, they may not be assigned as Support Weapon or Heavy Weapon Gunners. These crew members bring this extra ammo with them when the gun moves (if it can), so long as the ammo lasts.
 
Individual guns and crews are normally grouped into gun-sections (for smaller weapons) and firing-platoons (for larger ones). These are in-turn grouped into batteries. Larger organizations for such weapons have names based on their traditions. Individual guns and crews may freely be detached without loss of their “infantry” skill, or their “Artillery” skill. What they cannot do is benefit from the dispersed deployment posture of normal infantry.
 
They also lose the infantry bonus penalties for detection and hiding and have only a +1 un-modified to-hit.
 
Gun-Crews who have shamefully abandoned their weapons or lost them in action, are treated in all ways as normal infantry, including dispersion, detachment and returning to their +2 to-hit penalty.
The gun, itself is handled through game-balance in a counter-intuitive manner. Normally in BattleTech, what feels right here is a chance to damage or destroy the gun, through luck or a targeted attack.
 
While you have that chance through a “Critical Hit”, in which case the gun is lost in one fell swoop, normally, the weapon is only removed from action when abandoned, out of ammunition or the crew is taken out. In the latter case, the weapon is always handled for salvage purposes as if it were damaged to 25% and in need of repair, as per a damaged mech of vehicle weapon of the same class.
 
So, your guns are harder to hit, but also more vulnerable in other ways. Can we do anything about this? Yes; build your guns as gun-trailers and remove the infantry-aspect altogether.
 
To close off here, we’ll cover an obvious question; can you have Gauss Field Guns?
 
Yes, you can. But they must be purchased as Auxiliary-Propelled guns. Since the Gauss technology requires a power source, it only makes sense to provide one that can also move this rather expensive asset. The range on the fuel tank would be better, if not a fusion or similar system; 250km. Stats are different though; +35% for cost, but same Tech, availability and complexity as for mech and vehicle-mounted gauss weapons. For towing purposes, Gauss Field guns are 30% heavier. Gauss rifles become unwieldy in the extreme as dual-threat guns (+60%) and their cost is uneconomic (double), they are two steps more complex and three steps less common.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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Special Equipment, skills and abilities
 
Various add-ons exist to enhance an infantry unit’s capabilities; training, equipment, skills, ect. These usually increase the cost and may have other effects/trade-offs in addition to their primary benefit.

***

Armour
 
Infantry units measure their health and capabilities in terms of operational, able-bodied members. Confirmed hits reduce these members to an inoperative state (killed or wounded).
 
You can think of it in terms of a 28-man/person/whatever platoon (unit) having 28 “Hit points”, each representing one functional (for certain uses of the term), healthy (ditto) soldier (or something).
 
So, one 1pt hit confirmed on the platoon, removes one member of the controlling player’s choice.
 
Armour can make this harder to do.
 
Armour comes in two forms for the vast array of protection available in the BTU.
 
These are “Soak” and “Class”
 
“Soak” protection increases the effective “Chewiness” of each individual soldier. So, instead of each soldier representing 1 “Hit Point”, it is more. Usually 1.5, 2 or maybe even 3 in extreme cases. This effectively multiplies the hit points of an infantry unit by the soak value. Now, when you take damage, you only remove a unit member for every 1.5, 2 or 3 points of damage. This does not reset.
 
For reset, you need armour “Class”. Class functions as a flat “NO” to weapons that just don’t do enough damage on a hit; allowing individual soldiers to shrug them off.
 
Armour “Class” values are lower, 2 or less and apply mainly to infantry scale damage; 0.05, 0.14, ect. So individual infantry weapons that don’t do enough damage cannot inflict casualties, even when you add up the whole. Needlers have special properties for dealing extra damage if they overcome a target’s armour class.
 
It’s important to remember that infantry do not take damage the same way mechs or tanks do; they are smaller targets, normally glimpsed and engaged only briefly. They are simply not affected by vehicle-scale weapons the same way.
 
A few weapons ignore armour class; these are mech-scale missiles, autocannon and artillery.
Better protection is usually encumbering.
 
The biggest advantage of powered-armour being that it lets you take that protection with you more easily, you can have more of it and carry better weapons too. “Legs” just have to make do.
 
 ***

Special Case Rules: Jump Infantry
 
Jump infantry have heavy and bulky “Jump Packs” that give them increased mobility in the form of an optional jump movement of 3.
 
Different jump packs may be encumbering or incorporate weapons of their own.
 
Under-water-capable “Frog” Packs and water-dedicated surface “Swimmer-packs” also exist. Basic Jump-packs can be used in space and different atmospheres.
 
Rarer kinds have limited uses or differing range.
 
Jump infantry cannot otherwise employ any crew-served weapons or equipment requiring a crew of more than two. And even that’s tricky.

***

Special Case Rules: Desant Infantry
 
Desant or “Armoured” infantry are those operating from larger, hopefully and normally *armoured* vehicles.
 
Most modern combat vehicles are simply too large for infantrymen and women to climb or ride on top of and then jump off without injury, especially while carrying a combat load, so instead; they de-bus the vehicle through doors and hatches designed for the purpose.
 
A vehicle and it’s infantry can mount or dismount once in a turn, but the vehicle needs to not move in that turn’s movement phase; spend a turn not moving in other words. Jump infantry are an exception to this rule and can deploy from moving aircraft.
 
The infantry can unload into any hex-facing around the vehicle, but a vehicle can only unload a number of separate infantry units equal to the hex-facings it has; so, a super-heavy unit can do more. Any vehicle designed to carry infantry is designed to unload them quickly and under fire. So, while they can be carried as cargo; infantry being moved in cargo bays can only unload one unit at a time. Units afflicted with the negative “Cramped” quirk are affected the same way, despite having dedicated infantry bays.
 
These infantry may dismount in a dispersed posture; they may dismount into close-combat or to attack. They cannot otherwise move the turn they dismount.
 
Field Gun/Artillery troops can also be carried this way, but if carried as cargo (as opposed to towed); a field gun or Field Artillery Piece takes (charitably) one turn to load or unload *each piece*.
 
Trailer hitches for these weapons, along with the bay fittings for different kinds of troops; motorized, mechanized, even battle armour are assumed to be available as needed. Although the standard rules for towing apply to field guns and artillery.

***

Transport Rates (or tons per troop)
 
   Compartment/Bay
 
Compartments are simple furnished cargo bays for transporting infantry; they have some form of seating, stowage space for personal field gear and some amount of food, perhaps medical supplies, extra ammo or water.
 
Infantry bays are what you find on space ships and are intended for semi-long-term habitation. They have more storage, essential life support facilities, sleeping arrangements, ect.
 
Both can be assigned fractionally to support larger or smaller units.
 
In a pinch; all kinds of infantry can use the basic foot infantry accommodations, with their heavier and larger equipment stored as cargo. This is less convenient and lacks real maintenance and training facilities for the equipment, but it your troops can make it work.
 
Infantry Bays can also serve for true cattle-car accommodations for paying (or non-paying) passengers.
 
Foot infantry Compartments come at the rate of a tenth of a ton or 0.1 tons, per trooper. Bays come out a bit heavier at 0.17 tons.
 
The standard foot platoon is 28 troops packed into a 3-ton compartment, with two spare seats, because those come in handy. Whereas a 7-man squad has three spare seats in a 1-ton compartment.
 
Jump Infantry require a heftier 0.13 per soldier in a jump infantry compartment due to the added space and weight of their equipment. Most vehicles designed to carry jump infantry, specifically are capable of using the compartment as a kind of launch-bay, or offer a suitable platform for the jump-troopers to launch or jump from (The latter om the case of VTOLs, for instance). A more long-term bay, requires 0.2 tons per trooper to accommodate their bulky packs.
 
Motorized infantry can generally make do with 0.2 tons per trooper in what ends up being a very clean and simplistic compartment and only 0.23 tons for long-term habitation.
 
Mechanized infantry are generally allocated by the “Car”, “Track”, “truck” or what-have you. These generally weigh five tons or less. Space allocation for Mech Inf units is one of those things that all come out in the wash. Not all mech infantry use a five-man squad. But if you allocate the commonly accepted 5 tons for 5 troops, it will all work out for your mechanized platoon. Long-term bays are handled the same way; per five troops, but are allocated eight tons at a time and not five.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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If you are going to redo the infantry rules, make the squad the basic element, with the ability to stack four in a hex as desired.

Never considered this, but I did work in the ability for you to split a platoon. I figure that a platoon is the smallest unit of infantry a mech unit might have attached to them, so it made sense to seat the rules there for me.

Give them the standard +2THM and keep the movement rules as-is with the original Foot, Jump, Motorized modes (eradicating Mechanized, natch). Give infantry a threshold mechanic like the new Battlefield Support rules, with preference given to AP weapons as they presently exist. Allow them to Take Cover vice movement for a turn for an additional +1 or 2 THM. And Dig-in for an additional+1THM/6 Turns. Keep the infantry-in-the-open damage penalty with allowances for the new thresholding paradigm.

I've been struggling with the Moto/mech thing. I find them generally confusing, but I have a few ideas I'd like to float here in a few days when I have time to let them percolate a bit more. But yeah...I'm with you in that as-written, they don't make a lot of sense to have the two types. I am not tracking the battlefield support rules. What book are they in?

Cover is a good mechanic, but I think I'd have it add to their "armour" and capacity to hide and not be a to-hit. Heavy weapons have a way of turning cover into concealment when they're applied to them.

One thing I always hated was the idea of doing things like digging in, building a bridge or clearing mines or laying them by hand in a turn. I'm ditching that. Stuff like that you do between games, unless you have something like a vehicle-mounted item that makes it kinda work if you look sideways and chant "It's just a game!" three times.

Boil down the basic weaponry to a set number with slight modifiers departing from the baseline Ballistic Rifle:  SMG (which now will encompass your short-ranged weaponry), Laser Rifle, Gyrojet, etc. Add in a Support Weapon (limited to a light machine gun or squad automatic weapon here) which will have an anti-armor and anti-personnel value, with an additional modifier for underbarrel-grenade launchers, etc. These are your Rifle Squads. The range of a pure Rifle Team will be the range of the Rifle; the inclusion of a SW will give the RT a range of the Rifle and SW divided by two.

I liked the idea behind how TPB handled small arms, but not how it was executed. There seems to have been no real consistency behind how weapons were converted. Years ago, pre-Shrapnel, I spreadsheeted all the infantry weapons with their stats across multiple rulesets to compare them. I never did anything more with it, but always wanted to. This is part of me doing something with it.

Heavy Weapons Teams will get the heavier, crew-served weapons that have a BattleTech stat-line, as they did in the original TRO 3026 (and still do, I imagine, in TW or wherever infantry is covered in its basic form). If desired, give them a +3THM because they are only 2-3 personnel. They move as a Rifle Team for game purposes, and function as a mobile BT weapon. If you want to keep extra rules to a minimum, just treat them like a Called Shot.

My goal with heavy weapons is unified stats across infantry, BA and mechscale, with a few exceptions. Mortars need to change, for instance. They are a dumb joke atm.

Special Teams will be medics, platoon headquarters, FOs, etc. You want your infantry to do things like call for fire, they need a ST/HQ. You want them to spot for SG LRMs or Arrow IV, bring an ST/FO. Want to have a chance to resurrect a "destroyed" team, get a ST/Medic to them and roll a 10+ on 2D6--or double their chances in a campaign of returning to duty post-game. Want to pick your way through a minefield, bring an ST/CE.

This is a great suggestion. I had struggled with how to model medics and I love the idea of getting an ability for a small additional cost in unit value.

Use boarding rules for CQB. Maybe keep the Anti-'Mech rules as-is without the penalty since we have shifted the numbers-paradigm (i.e. keep the as-is platoon numbers for the now-squad) but leave it there since we are no longer tracking individual infantrymen.

This is great too. I was just going to model CQB as extra damage.

As an optional rule, have an infantry-element that has taken fire (sustained even a non-damaging attack) in the previous turn be unable to move without a roll from a ST/HQ.

This is cool too!
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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My proposal would be similar to failures' with slight differences. I'm going to use TacOps to the fullest

Always Option
A 'Hustle' or double move option will be available to all 'un-encumbered' (that is without Heavy Armor or a pair of heavy weapons) foot/motorized troops at the cost of their attack for the turn.

I gotta say 'no' for me on this one. My hexes are already 100m for other reasons, making it a stretch that you can get infantry to cross that even "non-tactically" every "turn". And figure on those troops moving with battlefield kit every turn too. It's wild already. 200m in a turn is motorized infantry territory for me.

Main Focus
Heavy Weapon Teams are the name of the game on the battlefield. Standard and TacOps rules apply for squad deployment (from 5-10 Troopers) with appropriate modifiers for digging in, heavy armor (which halves damage but eliminates the 'hustle' double move option and imposes penalties on climbing/swarm attacks), and being a small target.

*this* in some sense I agree with; I think that anti-mech and swarm attacks are the wild-hair crazy move of the entire setting. An infantry unit intended to fight is a life support system for it's heavy and support weapons and that should be a way better/wiser option than trying to catch and climb a set of mech-legs to jam explosives in the joints.

Leave that to the elite, plot-armoured commandos. I'd rather hang back and try again with my SRM launcher that works like an SRM launcher.

For the Support Weapons. If you have 1 your squad (Medium Infantry) can move and shoot. If you have 2 (Heavy Infantry) you must choose one and maintain enough crew for those heavy weapons or be dropped down to Medium Infantry. Infantry Missile Launchers may select ANY LRM, Mech Mortar (yes I am boosting the Heavy Mortar to a MM/1 equivalent), or SRM ammo type but need to mark it (like Bombs).

I mean...if you want to pay for a unit of heavy weapons crews, why not? You're no slower with three LMGs in a squad than one or two. For bigger stuff; I encumber them.

I'm straight-up making infantry mortars into artillery weapons. I already did a thread on it and it's some of my better work. I just head-canon BA mortars as hopped-up grenade launchers...mech mortars? Are really weird, really big auto-loading grenade launchers. I love em and hate em...but you can't pretend they aren't unique. I mean, who else does that?

There is also an option for a support weapon free ('Light Infantry') squad equipped with rifles. These Light Infantry can choose either a pair of grenades (choose types, similar effect to VGL), or an OS Weapon [Dragonsbane analog (DCL or Disposable Chemical Laser), MANPADS, and LAW-equivalent.] You get one (DCL/LAW/MANPADS), or two (Grenade) salvos (choose and roll on Clusters) then you're out. This keeps them pretty balanced with enough firepower to hurt a heavy adversary (or Mechanized Team) but not enough to probably overwhelm it.

I think you'll like how I handled disposables and grenades, below.

Motorized Troops move slightly faster than foot troops, can go into and through buildings, cannot swarm (unless they dismount) but follow other foot trooper rules.

What I'm toying with is that they can dismount to regain their infantry abilities, but they move faster mounted.

No extra protection, no field guns and their range gets cut if they move mounted and fire in the same turn.

Mechanized Troops can move and shoot all the time (even with two support weapons), move faster than motorized. They do not gain a benefit from heavy armor because they take damage like vehicles and thus immune to AP fire but cannot swarm or go into buildings (unless they dismount).

I like the immune to AP fire idea. I was going to give these guys extra protection, they keep their range and weapons but don't move as fast.

Still no field guns. Towing/cargo rules in BT are strict and to keep from being breaking they have to be bent gently, if at all.

Additionally Mech-Inf may sacrifice their support weaponry to instead represent Field Guns or MLRS. All of these types suffer a half-speed mobility penalty, are limited to 1 ton/squaddie and only have a half ton of ammo. Hovers max out at 5 squaddies so they are limited to 5 tons. Setting up these weapons requires a turn without a move during which and while in operation they are regarded as immobile targets, without infantry mods. Since squads top out at 10 this would limit them to the AC/5s variants or nothing larger than an MRM-30 (which would be terrifying) while Hovers can deploy LRM-10s.

No dice, it's too silly for me. Max vehicle weight for mech inf in canon is what? 4,999kg? I buy that. It's a good mechanic. But almost all field gun weapons weight much more than that and the towing rules being what they are, it's just too much for me. Respect though, you're very engaging.

Jump Infantry cannot use heavy armor and may only use AP grade weapons and disposables, but can jump, go through and into buildings, and get a bonus to swarm.

The swarm-thing here never occured to me and it makes sense. Thank you.

Everyone beside the Weapon Operator (Typically the Squad Leader) is also an ammo carrier/rifleman with basic weapons that have AP stat-lines and rules. Each trooper carries 2 reloads for the squad's support weapon type, or a disposable weapon/pair of grenades.

I really want to minimize tracking ammo for when i absolutely have to and I am not sure where that benchmark should be.

This would add a lot more options to the infantry squads as everything has some kind of trade-off which makes them dynamic enough to pose a threat but eliminates a lot of the weird fractional accounting and rounding in Tech Manual built troops. It also gives each infantry 'type' a distinct identity and role to perform on the battlefield.

I feel like that system (TW) started well, but went off the rails. I want to rework the weapon stats before I pass judgement.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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I am a huge fan of the battle droids infantry squad as the basic element.  This meshes with squads of battlearmor being the basic element.  For motorized, they have a jeep squad, which works very well as any number of barely armored vees infantry fight in at the expense of entering dense terrain.  They are squads with either a MGUN or SRM2, get a +2 bonus to avoid being hit (+1 for jeep), but any hit to the squad takes them out of the fight (5 damage needed for jeep).  No need for any record keeping or anything, you either hit the squad weapon, wounded enough of them, broke their morale, or killed them all.  Advanced rules for 'destroyed/injured versus dead', just like normal, would apply for campaign purposes. 


I really like something like this idea for my Mech Inf, with the armour of the vehicle averaged over front, right/left and rear giving you a stat like the BD jeep needing a 5pt hit to kill it (and the crew?), but the BAR rating giving you a chance to bypass and go right to eliminating the crew.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

AlphaMirage

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My thoughts on MechInf are basically to remove the basic 10 ton APCs (preferably with all vehicles under 10 becoming support vehicles) with MechInf equivalent units scaled appropriately for that mass. At 1 ton per MechTrooper there is plenty of mass to add AP proof armor and some engine (4/6/8 speeds) For the superheavy weapons you're basically carrying external cargo on board that needs to be readied and stabilized before firing. I do like the ammo choice thing, much like Protomechs.

The ammo carrying thing is basically to limit an infantry units ability to affect the battlefield in an organic way. I think its not more complicated than Elementals keeping tracking of their 2 shot SRMs and Protomechs their ATM Fusillades (which would be good for foot infantry missile launchers, kinda Javelin like).

Daryk

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That's a LOT of rules (and some very helpful illustrations)... ;)

idea weenie

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Very interesting rules there.

I'd want to make it where squads can be of any size, but there would be advantages and disadvantages for both small and large sizes.  (i.e. large squad allows more meat shields per special weapon, but small squads allow more special weapons per platoon)

If you have an oversize platoon in a single hex (or the total amount of infantry in that hex is over the limit), then an AI weapon does more AI damage (+1 pt per 10 extra, FRU?).  So if the limit is 30 and there are a total of 61 infantry in that hex, (1 platoon at 25, and two platoons totaling 36 engaging the single platoon) then the hex is 31 over the limit and a basic 1-pt AI weapon will do a total of 5 pts of AI damage.  Not sure how to make it divide up the damage nicely.  (If a Mech tries to help the melee by firing AI weapons, chances are both platoons will turn on the Mech no matter whose side it is on)

Is there a way to allow the Canopian squads that have a medic in each?

AlphaMirage

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I feel like the presence of medics is a tricky thing to model in game rules. Their operation is more of a RP or Campaign level inclusion, best modeled after the battle has been conducted, just like S&R and Salvage.

Like S&R, CASEVAC and Combat Medicine should have an effect, but most BT scenarios last less than 10 minutes in 'real time' so there isn't much a medic can do to 'heal' a trooper hit in that time. Their presence can ensure that more 'injured but combat ineffective' troops survive to fight again. Now LSSU (Life Support Sustaining Units, the Clan's super medipak) or equivalent SLDF units, those might be worth modeling and make those Infantry extra tough to kill.

beachhead1985

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That's a LOT of rules (and some very helpful illustrations)... ;)

Are they? I really wondered. I've been exposed to this idea of having a picture on every page, even if you can't make it a value-added explanatory diagram, make it something interesting to look at, with a caption and that helps people get into what you're writing.

I was raised on DENSE tomes for everything from mythology to history, so I'm not so sure myself. But I wanted to try a swing at it.

And yeah...the basics are easy...and I tried to make it flow, but field guns are complex and I fear moto/mech will be moreso.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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Very interesting rules there.

I'd want to make it where squads can be of any size, but there would be advantages and disadvantages for both small and large sizes.  (i.e. large squad allows more meat shields per special weapon, but small squads allow more special weapons per platoon)

If you have an oversize platoon in a single hex (or the total amount of infantry in that hex is over the limit), then an AI weapon does more AI damage (+1 pt per 10 extra, FRU?).  So if the limit is 30 and there are a total of 61 infantry in that hex, (1 platoon at 25, and two platoons totaling 36 engaging the single platoon) then the hex is 31 over the limit and a basic 1-pt AI weapon will do a total of 5 pts of AI damage.  Not sure how to make it divide up the damage nicely.  (If a Mech tries to help the melee by firing AI weapons, chances are both platoons will turn on the Mech no matter whose side it is on)

Is there a way to allow the Canopian squads that have a medic in each?

I was trying to figure out a way to actualize the law of sole ninja primacy as a rule...

In the law of sole ninja primacy when there is an army of ninjas: they die like flies, despite decades of training from birth, they are just mooks. But a small team of ninjas is a major threat and the sole survivor of a ninja clan or a lone assassin is practically invincible.

I wanted to try and figure out a rule for where the more troops you had in the hex, they harder they were to hit, but also harder to just *over-run*. As far as I got was the idea where at the point you had more than 50 dudesmen in one hex, you practically couldn't miss. All that survived of that was the split rate.

But if I was using the canon 30m hexes and not my 100m ones, I would have kept to the canon limit of 30.

As for the medics, in my mind, it's just one person with a special job. They don't even *have* to forgo a weapon. You just need to may more per platoon for it and source the skills if you are playing a really detailed merc game.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

beachhead1985

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I feel like the presence of medics is a tricky thing to model in game rules. Their operation is more of a RP or Campaign level inclusion, best modeled after the battle has been conducted, just like S&R and Salvage.

Like S&R, CASEVAC and Combat Medicine should have an effect, but most BT scenarios last less than 10 minutes in 'real time' so there isn't much a medic can do to 'heal' a trooper hit in that time. Their presence can ensure that more 'injured but combat ineffective' troops survive to fight again. Now LSSU (Life Support Sustaining Units, the Clan's super medipak) or equivalent SLDF units, those might be worth modeling and make those Infantry extra tough to kill.

I agree, but I also place a lot of value on those kind of between-fights, campaign rules. For me the sweet spot of BT is either in the major-level fluff of massive armies where things like having medics could help in the long run and the small, plucky band of mercs, for whom having a medic could literally be a matter of life and death.

The LSSU and the SL Med pack are both good ideas that I had forgotten about. I might model that as extra armour soak.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Daryk

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In RAW, medics are covered on pages 152-153 of TO:AUE, in case you want to compare. :)

Failure16

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One tweak (to start) F16: five squads, not four can be stacked in a hex.  You'd break some ComStar and all clanner units if you limited it to four.

Not if the "squad elements" can be up to eleven (or even thirteen! for you dirty jarheads) troopers. Then I could have my cake and eat it too.

Beachhead, all of those rules I mentioned have been play-tested heavily as part of my internal rule-set. Though there are BattleTech-specific aspects insofar as the game engine is concerned, they should work since they simply leverage or repurpose existing rules. The key is minimizing the extra rules for players to reference or memorize.

The morale-adjacent "movement under fire" or "pinning" rules are a straight-addition...but they could just as easily work for every other unit-type, maybe with a less-stringent target.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth,                                And through villages of ether
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.                   Oh, my crucifixion comes
When I needed something good.                                         One day we'll reveal the truth,                    Will you sing my hallelujah?
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.      That one will die before he gets there.       Will you tell me when it's done?
But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra                                                      --C. Love
--A. Duritz

Daryk

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You can have bigger squads if you also have a limit on maximum number of troopers... ;)

paladin2019

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A couple of things I've seen skimming. (Sorry, it's late, I don't have the bandwidth to grok more at the moment.)

Squad Composition. If you have access to it, BattleTroops has some good info about what each trooper in a given platoon type might carry. Note it is written for FASA versions of Mechwarrior, specifically 1e, where lasers are better weapons than slugthrowers in all areas. (Until I understood this, current BT rifle damage frustrated me to no end. Now I know what to blame. :angry: )

Mechanized Infantry. If the squad is to be the basis of infantry units. remove mechanized infantry from the game. The troop type exists to simulate infantry squads with APCs/IFVs mounting the 1 ton transport bays that CityTech's new platoons couldn't use after they got cargo tonnage equivalents in Battletech Companion (and possibly Battletech Manual). They are no longer needed as a separate unit type when foot infantry can mount APCs.

Infantry Rating. Automatically giving all infantry the same Gunnery and Anti-Mech skill ratings breaks a narrative tenet of the setting. Only some troops are crazy enough to get skilled at this tactic. But otherwise, other tasks are perfectly valid to cluster under a Gunnery/Infantry skill.

Reduced hit chances with casualties. If the infantry are losing damage due to fewer shooters, it's really unnecessary to make shooting harder, too.

100m hexes. No infantry is going to cover 100m in a 10 second BT turn. If you go to 100m hexes, all infantry will become move or fire and encumbered infantry (I didn't get what defines this) should have to declare movement then test to make it to the next hex.

Detachments. Too fiddly in the 10 second turn paradigm of BT, even before a shift to 100m hexes. Squads stay together.

100m hexes. These make things extremely fast unless you also propose increasing the duration of a turn.
<-- first 'mech I drove as a Robotech destroid pilot way back when

maxcarrion

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My 2 cents - I would make the basic infantry unit a person.  Equip every soldier and split them however you see fit, soldiers may move from unit to unit in the same hex on their activation.  Infantry initiative will be a big balance factor, so lets try Infantry receive a number of Initiative activations equal to soldiers/50 rounded up, each initiative activation the player may activate up to 50 soldiers activating them unit by unit.  If soldiers move between units both units must be activated during the same activation with restrictions on movement and actions (e.g. the soldiers changing unit still must adhere to their MP and actions), any unit that fails to do this loses their activation.  If you have used all your infantry activations, any un-activated infantry units lose their activation.

Every soldier has a carry rate of 3 combat equipment- maybe they could carry more with encumbrance rules.
Example Gear - obviously subject to play testing and just made up off the top of my head.
Auto Rifle - allows an attack at range 1,2,3  doing cluster damage at 0.5xauto rifles fired (e.g. cluster 5 firing 10 rifles) - always round down for infantry weapons, for cluster 1 attacks roll on the cluster 2 table and minus 1 from result
Laser rifle - allows an attack at range 2,4,6 doing cluster damage at 0.3xlaser rifles (e.g. cluster 3 firing 10 laser rifles)
SRM Launcher - 2 slots - fires SRMs - no ammo - crew 2 (loader/firer) (2 soldiers must spend their action to fire this weapon)
SRM - 1 ammo for SRM launcher
LMG - 2 slots, attack at range 1,2,3 doing cluster 1xweapons fired, cannot fire if the unit moved this turn. - weapons in the same range bracket can add fire together, e.g. LMG and Auto Rifle
FO Kit - (range finders etc. to act effectively as forward observer)
Entrenching Gear - allows up to 10 soldiers to "improve" their cover
Comms  - allows tactical coordination - e.g. spotting units in double blind
Medic Kit - substantially improves the chance to recover lost soldiers at the end of battle.
Jump Pack - grants the soldier 3 jump MP but increases bulk for bays/compartments by 20%
Assault Infantry Armour - when receiving anti infantry (burst) or AOE damage soldiers with body armour count as 1.5 casualties (round down)

Example 10 man SRM squad

Soldier 1 - Auto Rifle, SRM Launcher
Soldier 2 - Auto Rifle, SRM Launcher
Soldier 3-8 - Auto Rifle, 2 SRMs
Soldier 9 - Auto Rifle, FO kit, Entrenching Gear
Soldier 10 - Auto Rifle, Medic Kit, Comms

When a unit receives casualties roll 2d6, if you roll over the number of friendly infantry in the Hex the unit disperses and exits the battle
When a unit is only 1 soldier it may only move and hustle until it joins another unit, it may take no other actions
Up to 50 infantry may share a hex
Burst/AOE Casualties are removed from the hex rather than the unit, TN is against the easiest unit to hit
The infantry owner chooses which soldiers are lost.
Each soldier may move and take 1 action each turn (Hustle, Dig in, Fire weapon, Swarm attack, embark on vehicle, call in fire,  etc.)
Vehicles are purchased separately, for example a motorized platoon might consist of 30 soldiers and 30 wheeled transport seats which the infantry can embark/disembark from. 
Embarking on vehicles is an action - embarked infantry have numerous rules adjustments such as movement speed, receiving damage, firing, entering buildings and digging in.  This will vary based on what they embark on.

There'd be loads more details to cover but that's a bit of it.

Failure16

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I won't lie: We are talking about BattleTech, which is "A Game of Armored Combat", right? So far, most of the rules have simply made things more difficult to use infantry on the gameboard, not easier. And they are not adding anything to the experience. There are now thousands of pages of rules for the BTU and I am willing to bet that the most common ones in use can be found in the box rules going back to Second Edition and CityTech (spiritually, at least).

I understand that this thread will not result in official rules, but as a design exercise, one should at least be realistic in their approach. And there needs to be a focus on what level of combat the game is replicating. In this case, we are playing a platoon-to-company-scale game. The playable sub-elements should be at most squads or teams given the "two-steps down" paradigm of game design. This means about a quarter of platoon-element with special elements being smaller. It also means that the playable elements should be uniform across element-types: one 'Mech, one AFV, one infantry squad/team...

Suffice it to say that the doughty infantry holds a very special place in my heart. But this game is not about them; they are a supportive element for the stars. Keep the rules simple and effective. Leverage and describe the rules using existing main-line rules for other units. Keep the exception to that to a minimum, and only to really reinforce the difference that infantry exhibit.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth,                                And through villages of ether
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.                   Oh, my crucifixion comes
When I needed something good.                                         One day we'll reveal the truth,                    Will you sing my hallelujah?
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.      That one will die before he gets there.       Will you tell me when it's done?
But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra                                                      --C. Love
--A. Duritz