A swing at infantry house rules and an invitation for suggestions on same

[Charistoph]

To be fair, there is a limit of 120 ConvInf in a Hex per Level, 2 30-man groups per side, assuming none have taken damage prior to this point.  Still that is pretty crowded in 780 square meters.

With normal House/Merc ConvInf Squads, you're looking at 8 Squads of 7 (56).  With Clanners that's 10 Squads of 5 (50).  With Blakists that's 6 Squads of 6 (36).  So outside of some wacky conventions like the Marions, we're looking at even fewer people in a hex then that high end expectation. 

The number of 2 Blakist units running in to a hex with 2 Clan units would only number about 86 men in 16 sub-groups.  It's more likely to see 2 House/Merc units doing that so we're at 106 with 18 sub-groups, though.

I disagree with there being that 2 Squad limit for ConvInf like there is for Battle Armor.  It doesn't really allow them to bring a weight of fire to bear.  But with Squad sizes running from 5 to 25, it can hard to define it.

Maybe have Squads also defined as "Light" (5-9 men), "Medium" (10-17), and "Heavy" (18-30). 

"Light" Squads get a +2 To-Hit when they are the only Squad from their Platoon in a Hex. 

2 "Light" Squads from the same Platoon or 1 "Medium" Squad" have a +1 To-Hit. 

3+ "Light" Squads from the same Platoon in the same Hex, or 2 "Medium" Squads from the same Platoon in the same Hex, or a single "Heavy" Squad get no bonus at all.  I feel this penalizes Clan PBI squads a little, but it could also represent the Solahma "Kill me know" spirit.

[paladin2019]

I disagree with there being that 2 Squad limit for ConvInf like there is for Battle Armor.  It doesn't really allow them to bring a weight of fire to bear.  But with Squad sizes running from 5 to 25, it can hard to define it.

Modern infantry don't do this.

WWI taught the world not to do this, to the extent that mock graves with epitaphs like "THESE MEN BUNCHED" adorned training grounds.

Maybe have Squads also defined as "Light" (5-9 men), "Medium" (10-17), and "Heavy" (18-30). 

Is this scheme a modifier to hit the infantry or their modifier to attack?

I still don't agree with the latter. The loss of damage is more than enough penalty for smaller units that are harder to hit. And it's easier to coordinate the fire of a squad than a platoon, anyway.

[Charistoph]

Modern infantry don't do this.

WWI taught the world not to do this, to the extent that mock graves with epitaphs like "THESE MEN BUNCHED" adorned training grounds.
Is this scheme a modifier to hit the infantry or their modifier to attack?

We aren't dealing with "Modern Infantry".  We're dealing with Infantry who don't have to deal with the killing fields of WWI or even the early Age of War.  They deal with mechanical kaiju.

The modifier I mentioned was to hit them, like Battle Armor Squads get.  Just take the basic +1 they get and add an additional +1 for small PBI that don't have loud electronic and armor packages announcing their presence to the right sensors.

I still don't agree with the latter. The loss of damage is more than enough penalty for smaller units that are harder to hit. And it's easier to coordinate the fire of a squad than a platoon, anyway.

The latter what?  The "Heavy" Squad?  What you quoted doesn't seem to match what you're responding to...

So, which is the bad part here, bunching up as you stated first, or being unable to concentrate fire?

[Daryk]

The RAW allow squads to be down to two troopers... do they get an "Ultralight" designation? ???

[paladin2019]

We aren't dealing with "Modern Infantry".  We're dealing with Infantry who don't have to deal with the killing fields of WWI or even the early Age of War.  They deal with mechanical kaiju.

Right. So, the same thing, basically. "You bunch up like "laxidaisical" [sic] longhairs diddyboppin' down the street with yer <censored> hands in yer <censored> pockets, yer gonna gets yuhselfs deded by that robot kaiju."

The latter what?  The "Heavy" Squad?  What you quoted doesn't seem to match what you're responding to...

So, which is the bad part here, bunching up as you stated first, or being unable to concentrate fire?

The latter option of my question, that smaller infantry units have a penalty to their attacks. You obviously aren't endorsing that either.

[Charistoph]

The RAW allow squads to be down to two troopers... do they get an "Ultralight" designation? ???

Do single people have a huge To-Hit defense for them?

Right. So, the same thing, basically. "You bunch up like "laxidaisical" [sic] longhairs diddyboppin' down the street with yer <censored> hands in yer <censored> pockets, yer gonna gets yuhselfs deded by that robot kaiju."

There's a reason why they take double damage if they are out in the open.  Still, the standard is that a Platoon can be fielded in a hex the same as a Combat Vehicle, so rules for that have to be addressed.

Still, standardizing the rules that allow Squads to split and join in to Platoons as needed/desired is still the best answer.  Sure, they can mob up to provide a better concentration of firepower, but they have a better chance at being mowed down in mass.

It also allows for considerations like mobs or hordes of conscripts.

The latter option of my question, that smaller infantry units have a penalty to their attacks. You obviously aren't endorsing that either.

Ah, due to how the quote system works, the question was mushed in with statement before the Quote split, so I was confused by it.

Yeah, there's no sense in having a unit get easier to hit as it gets smaller.  It's usually the other way around.

[idea weenie]

No; I definitely meant the opposite; fewer troops: harder to hit.

I think we're talking past each other. 

Your original post had it where you said "the more troops you had in the hex, they harder they were to hit".
Here you are saying: "fewer troops: harder to hit".

My assumption is that your original post was wrong and you meant to write: "the more troops you had in the hex, they easier they were to hit".

I get where you're coming from, but I'm happier with the harder/easier to hit thing.

A mix?  More troops = easier to hit, and AI weapons do more damage?

For every 20 troops over 20 (FRN but .5 rounds down) you get +1 to be hit, so if you have 31-40 troops you get +1 to be hit, at 41-60 you get +2 to be hit, 61-80 you get +3 to be hit, aso.
For every 20 troops over 30 (FRU) you get +1 AI damage (so 31-50, 51-70, 71-90, aso get +1, +2, +3, aso AI damage)

A combination of the above means that for every 10 extra troopers over 30 in a hex the people shooting at it will find it easier to hit and do more damage, and instead of breakpoints every 20 troopers the breakpoints will occur every 10 troopers.

Mobs of different sizes:
30 troopers = (no extra AI damage) & 10/20 = .5, but round .5 down = +0 to be hit
31 troopers = 30 + 1 = +1 AI damage (1/20 = .05, FRU -> 1) & +1 to be hit (11/20 = .55, FRN = +1 to be hit)
355 people = 30+325 = +17 AI damage (325/20 = 16.25, FRU -> 17) & +16 to be hit (325/20 = 16.25, FRN -> 16)

Relatively simple calculations:
Bonus to-hit: Take the excess number of troopers, add 10 to that, divide by 20, and round up
Bonus AI damage: Take the excess number of troopers, divide that by 20, and round up

Right there with you. I HATE that rule. I figure range and special capabilities should be enough to divide weapons. I want to do up a Kurita security platoon based on the mooks you encounter in Crescent Hawk's inception as an example. Random bullies, basically with whatever weapons they feel like hauling around to terrorize the locals with, so a real hodge-podge broken down into a few discrete attacks.

I'd just grab the AToW 'club' and use that as the average damage.  For armor, I'd use Flak Armor and just say it represents the hodge-podge armor they found and strapped into place (i.e. tire pieces).  If I am needing to identify who has what weapon in a platoon, then that should be RPG scale rather than Battlemech scale.

Depends on so many factors. The Imperial Army of Japan used to have guys go literally unarmed as part of MG crews. I think it was like the gunner, who fired the gun and had nothing else: two assistant gunners with nothing, two more guys with rifles and an officer/NCO with a pistol and a sword.

Then there's the clag I used to run with who, if you had a GPMG, made SURE you---the GUNNER---were also carrying your assault rifle and possibly also an underbarrel grenade launcher.

A saner medium would be most modern armies, who give everyone in a weapons team an assault rifle or carbine.

Unarmed = more ammo for the support weapons and less gear carried by the troops, allows having smaller/weaker troops
fully-armed = less ammo for the support weapons per trooper, or just requires hiring troops that serve as splatters rather than bouncers.

Then you get the fun of accepting weaker troops to increase your potential manpower but they can't carry as much.  Or only wanting near-Elementals for your troops so they can carry a lot but your infantry costs are higher.  You select the average STR and BOD for the squad (or platoon) and that is your available mass budget.  Armor for each trooper, base loadout for each trooper, all sorts of things can make that available mass drop really quickly.

As an example, using the Battletech AToW Core Book, pages 339-340, you have two loadout options for troops.  One requires a Strength of 3 to carry, the other requires a Strength of 6 to carry (and the Special Forces Operative needs a STR of 7).  If all you need is the Strength of 3, then you have a much wider pool for potential recruits than if you select the loadout that needs a Strength of 6.  This would be reflected in either a lower cost per platoon (not just less equipment per trooper, but less work to find those troopers) or a higher cost per platoon (far fewer potential recruits, more PR needed, and more gear).

I'm impressed you have a mechanic figured out for that, but I'd rather not be tracking basic loads for the guys along with everything else.

I'd prefer using the various mechanics during the design phase, and keep it simple during the combat phase:
* You don't recalculate armor after the platoon has been designed, it is a fixed number.
* You don't try to change shots during combat, you just have X shots per Special Weapon.
* You don't keep track of regular bullets, you just require that each trooper has at least X number of shots for their regular infantry weapon (pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc).  If they don't have a weapon, then they don't have to carry ammo for it.
* Special Weapons are tracked, not regular weapons

I.e. if you are required to have 20 shots per trooper then one squad might have single-shot rifles and carry 20 bullets, another squad might have assault rifles firing 3-round bursts and need 60 rounds, and another squad might go with long bursts of 10 rounds and need to carry 200 rounds.  All you care is that you are carrying at least 20 turns of ammo, you then plug in the adjusted weapon damages to the platoon damage row, and put it in place.  You might have the single-shot rifle platoon lose 2/3 of their troopers on the first turn meaning they could fire 3* per turn now, but changing that during a game gets far too complex for me.