Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II  (Read 61107 times)

grimlock1

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #150 on: 05 June 2020, 10:37:10 »
True, but the RAC-2 is for the command variant, so the shields could give more protection. Regarding the HAG... I could understand the notion of "lacking a heavy/knockdown gun" if this was a class 20 HAG, but it's a class 30 and linked to a TC to boot!
Compared to a Clan LB 20X AC, you get a massive range advantage, better accuracy across the board except for 1 hex distance, and become the nightmare of anything with tracks, wheels, hover propulsion and especially anything that dares to fly in your presence. Everything that's not a Mech will drop bricks from it's exhaust ports at the sight of that gun. For Mech targets at and under 8 hex distance, it's also a guaranteed knockdown roll just like a class 20 AC slug(and unlike the LB 20X cluster round). The HAG 30 does more damage on average than the class 20 slug, and MUCH more than the cluster round... sure we don't use a class 20 AC cluster round for the damage, but you still get on average 5/4 clusters with the HAG 30 up to 8/24 hexes. As additional bonus, it synergizes with the Streak 20 by virtue of throwing so many 5 pointers out to long range that most Mech's without Ferro-Lamellor armor will have one or multiple open locations before they even have the time to close the range.

Okay sorry, I started rambling a bit there. Point is, there are veeery few people that would complain about a HAG 30 not being a "heavy" enough gun.  :))
All good points.  I hadn't realized that a HAG 30 guaranteed a PSR if it connects under 8 hexes. Good to know.  My issue is  that if I'm spraying another assault mech with Streak 20 and HAG 30, I'm sanding a lot of armor off. But if he's shooting back with a pair of PPCs and a Streak 20, I'm not liking my odds.  My attacks are going to wear down all of his armor, fairly evenly. His attacks are going to take bigger chunks out of fewer locations. Then the sanding action of his LRMS, and eventually medium lasers and SRMs are more likely to breach.  I can use the shields to mitigate some of that but if my right torso starts looking thin, I can guard it with the right shield, but then I give up my long range weapons.  I now I have to stop thinking of Atlas III as a beatstick I can throw at the other team and treat it like a strategic asset. But it's and Atlas!!!  It was born to wade in and jack stuff up!

I've always thought Atlas II, and the AS7-RS, was something of a beast.  Yeah, I know it doesn't have the one big gun I was just complaining about but the LB-10 and paired ER larges all take decent size bites out of a target and nibbling starts happening 19 hexes out.  Salvo the ER larges and LRM 20, bringing LB 10 slugs in turns where you are holding back one laser. Keep this up until the enemy closes to short range, by which point, there is like to be if not a breach, a couple spots closer to breach than the other fellow is really comfortable with.  Drop the LRM and one laser, and go to town with the medium pulses, SRM 6, LB 10 in clusters and the remaining laser. 

I played a bunch games in MM using a modified Turkina E.  2 PPCs, TC and 7 Streak 6s.  2-3 rounds of softening up with the PPCs and I rarely needed more than 2 salvos  to start scoring critical hits.  Assuming of course that I didn't kill the target with floating crits and head hits.  But if I didn't use the PPCs, it would be 6-8 turns of close range slugging before I wore through enough armor to start hitting the soft bits. Again, assuming no floating crits or head hits.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #151 on: 05 June 2020, 11:07:27 »
All good points.  I hadn't realized that a HAG 30 guaranteed a PSR if it connects under 8 hexes. Good to know. 

Huh?  If it misses with half the clusters, it still cannot cause a PSR.  And it is just as likely to hit or miss with the clusters at less than 8 hexes as it is 20+ hexes afaik.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #152 on: 05 June 2020, 11:34:58 »
HAGs get a +2 to cluster rolls at short range.

Regardless, if you're running an Atlas II or III by itself, that's your first mistake.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #153 on: 05 June 2020, 15:13:56 »
What do people think of the Nicky K variant? Would all of the Atlas IIs in the clan toumans have been upgraded to that standard like the Orion’s were into the Orion IIC in honor of the founder? Or do you think they would have been left alone and shuffled into Brian Caches? It is obviously a very powerful and well rounded machine, even more so than the standard Star League version. Also a mass conversion program would require a lot less work and materials than an Orion to IIC as it only swaps DHS and FF armor between tech types, rather than adding a whole new internal structure (and obviously the weapons).

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #154 on: 05 June 2020, 15:33:00 »
I don't think the Atlas IIs were put in caches. I think they were kept in service for as long as possible because they represented the cutting edge of mech development until actual Clantech was deployed. As such, they saw the most combat, and also bore the brunt of the action when the first IICs and other Clan machines started stomping out.

Some might have been upgraded, I doubt it'd be the exact same config as Nikky the Nut. The ones that weren't (and many that were) didn't get cached - they died in battle.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #155 on: 05 June 2020, 16:03:17 »
I don't think the Atlas IIs were put in caches. I think they were kept in service for as long as possible because they represented the cutting edge of mech development until actual Clantech was deployed. As such, they saw the most combat, and also bore the brunt of the action when the first IICs and other Clan machines started stomping out.

Some might have been upgraded, I doubt it'd be the exact same config as Nikky the Nut. The ones that weren't (and many that were) didn't get cached - they died in battle.

Yeah, sort of the same answers about cutting edge stuff like Thunderhawks or Devastators . . . sure the Clans probably had them back in the beginning, but they were more likely to be kept in toumans like the Royal variants while regular line variants would be what got put in caches.  IE, you are more likely to find a Atlas 7-D with its AC/20 in a Brian Cache b/c it was out of date than a cutting edge mech like a Atlas II or Devastator.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #156 on: 05 June 2020, 19:47:30 »
Huh?  If it misses with half the clusters, it still cannot cause a PSR.  And it is just as likely to hit or miss with the clusters at less than 8 hexes as it is 20+ hexes afaik.

I don't have charts in front of me, so, I'm not sure its guaranteed or not.

But based off memory of the 10-15-20 LRM racks & the +2 at Close Range it gets... I'm thinking 3+ = 18?    7+ = 24

So I wouldn't call it guaranteed either, but I might be wrong in my #s.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #157 on: 05 June 2020, 20:41:08 »
I don't think the Atlas IIs were put in caches. I think they were kept in service for as long as possible because they represented the cutting edge of mech development until actual Clantech was deployed. As such, they saw the most combat, and also bore the brunt of the action when the first IICs and other Clan machines started stomping out.

Some might have been upgraded, I doubt it'd be the exact same config as Nikky the Nut. The ones that weren't (and many that were) didn't get cached - they died in battle.

I'll note, there is actually an amusing tidbit from the old Jade Falcon Phonebook [I know, I know]

One of the Falcons, I think a Star Captain or Star Colonel is listed as having an Atlas II as a mount. I think its one of the second line units.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #158 on: 05 June 2020, 22:16:39 »
I'll note, there is actually an amusing tidbit from the old Jade Falcon Phonebook [I know, I know]

One of the Falcons, I think a Star Captain or Star Colonel is listed as having an Atlas II as a mount. I think its one of the second line units.

I remember seeing something about an Atlas II being at Tukkayid for one of the clans but can’t remember and I don’t have whatever book it was.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #159 on: 05 June 2020, 22:45:30 »
Correct, that & the SLSB were the only references to it prior to TRO3075 finally giving us stats for it.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #160 on: 06 June 2020, 11:23:41 »
Huh?  If it misses with half the clusters, it still cannot cause a PSR.  And it is just as likely to hit or miss with the clusters at less than 8 hexes as it is 20+ hexes afaik.
Right, sorry that was misleading... I should have said "on average" instead of "guaranteed". :-[

UnLimiTeD

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #161 on: 06 June 2020, 18:43:56 »
You're gonna need a bigger HAG.  8)

Sadly, that couldn't be mounted.
One has to assume that, when Atlas IIs were built, there were plenty of AS-7s around. Why copy what is good if you can just get more of that thing?
« Last Edit: 06 June 2020, 18:47:36 by UnLimiTeD »
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #162 on: 06 June 2020, 19:06:57 »
The only Atlas that was around at the time the Atlas II was introduced was the AS-7D.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #163 on: 06 June 2020, 19:30:35 »
Sometimes now i have a hard time believing that AS7-D would be able handle battlefield with so many high tech Star League being fielded. I love the mech but pre-Succession Wars machine with basic weapons.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #164 on: 07 June 2020, 02:38:31 »
1.  It was fielded by the SLDF against people w/o access to most of that level of tech.

2.  You put it into an area w/ limited vision & watch the carnage ensue.
   (Seriously, no one wants to be point blank w/ one, not even clanners)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #165 on: 07 June 2020, 03:07:27 »
Eh, Amaris had time to churn out his own Royals and upgrade his Rampages.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #166 on: 07 June 2020, 07:49:36 »
Amaris was pretty much the only enemy the SLDF didn't plan to fight. The expected enemies were pirates, Periphery rebels, and House units - reasonable worst-case scenario has them about as upgraded as a Regular Army unit, and said Regular Army would often be able to call on Royal forces for backup.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #167 on: 07 June 2020, 08:58:36 »
Amaris was pretty much the only enemy the SLDF didn't plan to fight. The expected enemies were pirates, Periphery rebels, and House units - reasonable worst-case scenario has them about as upgraded as a Regular Army unit, and said Regular Army would often be able to call on Royal forces for backup.

Or simply drown them in materiel. Having equal gear to your opposition doesn't help you much if you are fighting a BattleMech division with a single mech regiment.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #168 on: 07 June 2020, 09:24:00 »
APS I'm misremembering this. Field manual:SLDF gave the impression that there were more up graded tech mechs available.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #169 on: 07 June 2020, 13:59:00 »
Assuming I'm reading the above correctly...

Available to whom?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #170 on: 07 June 2020, 17:48:25 »
What was the rate of hand me downs again from SLSB.

First 50 Years of "New Tech" its only in Royal hands

Next 50 Years of "New Tech" its in Line SLDF hands.

3rd 50 Years of "New Tech" its finally passed out to "friends"


Insert 20 in for 50 in some of those cases IIRC,  I just can't remember exactly, but anything less than 40 years old probably isn't going to be in house hands.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #171 on: 07 June 2020, 19:33:55 »
What's the source on those numbers? I imagine a lot of folks would be very interested in some kind of codification of the rate of tech spread for this era.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #172 on: 07 June 2020, 19:43:06 »
APS I'm misremembering this. Field manual:SLDF gave the impression that there were more up graded tech mechs available.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #173 on: 07 June 2020, 21:26:21 »
Anti-personnel-system misremembering what?

The advanced mechs are supposed to be available to whom?

I'm thoroughly confused.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #174 on: 07 June 2020, 22:24:52 »
What's the source on those numbers? I imagine a lot of folks would be very interested in some kind of codification of the rate of tech spread for this era.


Its from the original SLSB I'm sure,  I just don't remember the exact rate.

When something new came out it went to the Royals first, then the line SLDF, then friendly houses, then finally general public.

And I'm pretty sure at least ONE of those points was 50 years.

Which was why I asked what it was?

My books are buried for now so I can't get to them easily to check & after my PC virus I haven't re-downloaded all my digital so I'm going purely from memory here.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #175 on: 08 June 2020, 06:54:36 »
Assuming I'm reading the above correctly...

Available to whom?
Sorry i was using my phone at the time. Great Houses (aka the Star League Member States), they had some Star League technology just about the time the Civil War broke out. Thus why i come back to would the base model Atlas, the AS7-D survive in such a battlefield.   The Atlas II is more technology up to snuff with the Royals.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #176 on: 08 June 2020, 08:09:26 »
Honestly, allot of rediscovered mechs exists to fill TROs or make up for flawed Fasa era designs. Where they end up is a question of convenients.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #177 on: 08 June 2020, 08:57:50 »
Sorry, I was using my phone at the time. The Great Houses(aka the Star League Member States) had some Star League technology just about the time the Civil War broke out. Thus why I come back to the question: Would the base model Atlas, the AS7-D survive in such a battlefield?   The Atlas II is more technologically up to snuff with the Royals.

You tell me. How well does a base Atlas fare in a fight against Inner Sphere forces from the late 3040s or very early 3050s? Reasonable base assumptions include allies with advanced tech (this is the Star League Regular Army, after all), and a pilot with enough brain cells to actually make use of cover and smoke when needed.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #178 on: 08 June 2020, 16:39:20 »
Sorry i was using my phone at the time. Great Houses (aka the Star League Member States), they had some Star League technology just about the time the Civil War broke out. Thus why i come back to would the base model Atlas, the AS7-D survive in such a battlefield.   The Atlas II is more technology up to snuff with the Royals.

Sure, when you realize the SLDF is going to throw a Company of AS7D's at a Lance of House Assaults.
For example.  Liao Assault Lance = Pillager,  Emperor,  Longbow,  Victor.
Certainly a nice lance, and going to get smashed.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #179 on: 08 June 2020, 16:51:43 »
Even in a BV-balanced game, intelligently-run Atlases are going to be a serious threat, even against a foe that has some advanced technology.

But we all seem to have lost sight of the most important point: This thread isn't about the Atlas at all, it's about the Atlas II.
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