BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: Istal_Devalis on 16 July 2014, 06:25:33
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That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And in strange aeons, even death may die.
New Clan Nova Cat discussion thread since the old one reached the magic Lock Me number.
Remember, Clan Nova Cat is not dead, it's just pining for the fjords.
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Still not dead - running from the Zombies!!
Hey we could get the October XTRO with this thread :D
Istal, it was the magic number +1 cause we yap a lot
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Ya know? There were actually more Nova Cats in the Republic than there ever were in the Combine. Of course not in the sort of numbers that made the Wolf Empire possible, but significant none the less.
So, I'm thinking the huge numbers of canister kids grown in vats will eventually become a thing of the past, and the emphasis will be on quality over quantity. So, the Cats can revert to biological reproduction without mechanical intervention and have greater variety in the (already stagnant) gene pool.
The next generation will still be Clan Warriors, but instead of Trueborn, they'll be Newborn, and even the epithet of Freebirth will lose its power as an insult.
The Spirit Cats can Dance, let's show the other Clans how it's done.
GC
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Remember, the Nova Cat's spines can still kill you long after the Nova Cat has passed away. Watch out DC, you have been poisoned and you will soon see the toxins infest your nation.
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Bah, they did a fine job poisoning themselves with the Black Dragon Society.
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Ya know? There were actually more Nova Cats in the Republic than there ever were in the Combine.
How do you figure? I mean, considering that only a fraction of the Clan emigrated and it's not as if they experienced some massive boom in population in the Republic.
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I'll not be surprised when the DC gets stomped. It's bears I'm wanting to kill. >:D
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How do you figure? I mean, considering that only a fraction of the Clan emigrated and it's not as if they experienced some massive boom in population in the Republic.
Well I'm sure you might say three Galaxies and a fleet of warships doesn't sound like much at the end of the Jihad when Stone called support to protect the new Republic. But, unlike the Combine and the 2nd SOL, ties were not cut and personell was not abandoned. Perhaps some did emigrate and resettle, but many more may have seen it as a Tour of Duty, and returned to the reservations in the Combine as new sibkos and new support units patrol larger areas in the Republic.
It might not be expressly written as 'Canon' but it follows the same logic as the real world. "There are more XX-people in the 'New Lands' than there ever were in the 'Old Country'."
I may have missed it somewhere, but I'm still hoping to find a reference of even one Canon Personage that died of old age peacefully in his sleep without the help of an assassin or extreme destruction event. Dieing in your cockpit after crushing your last enemy under the mech's foot doesn't count.
GC
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I'll not be surprised when the DC gets stomped. It's bears I'm wanting to kill. >:D
Both make juicy targets
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Dragon brains. Bear brains.
Both delicious.
Braaaaains.
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Dragon brains. Bear brains.
Both delicious.
Braaaaains.
We're going to get a lot of that in this thread Quiaff?
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As a side note, the Zombie Catgirl Preservation Society is planting Hydrangeas on all the occupied worlds. Rumor has it that nibbling on the leaf helps to delay the rotting of the zombie flesh.
GC
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What is dead may never die. O:-)
It is too bad the Cats didn't have more warships. My cats and I are huge supporters of Bloodhouse Morris, but we love our warships too much.
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg559/isaacnewtonuoex/spaceship-cat-776610.jpg)
Good luck, Cats, in your next seven lives.
Meow Liao
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Dragon brains. Bear brains.
Both delicious.
Braaaaains.
You don't have to be dead to be okay with that. O0
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Hey, my parents grew up in a sizable Indiana town that apparently had a couple of diners than specialized in fried brain sandwiches. No undead-ness required.
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What is dead may never die. O:-)
It is too bad the Cats didn't have more warships. My cats and I are huge supporters of Bloodhouse Morris, but we love our warships too much.
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg559/isaacnewtonuoex/spaceship-cat-776610.jpg)
Good luck, Cats, in your next seven lives.
Meow Liao
Technically we do now. Very nice ArcShips. :D
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It is too bad the Cats didn't have more warships. My cats and I are huge supporters of Bloodhouse Morris, but we love our warships too much.
We had plenty. They just had a bad habit of getting blown up.
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We had plenty. They just had a bad habit of getting blown up.
Or gifted to factions of wanna be greatness
That said overall the Nova Cat navy did quite well. If it weren't for the naval forces more of our civvies would have been captures or killed in homeworlds. Our navy was one reason the SLDF and DC (before they turned stupid) liked. During the Jihad they protected Irece from nuclear hell, helped get ground forces onto Luthien, Buckminster and throughout Word of Blake territory. And they made up the lions share of WarShips deployed at Terra.
All pretty impressive for a "minor" clan faction.
PS see that not once in all that did I mention that we trashed the Ghost Bear fleet... :-\ :P
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PS see that not once in all that did I mention that we trashed the Ghost Bear fleet... :-\ :P
Sorry we were too busy slaughtering the DC fleet
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The Nova Cat Navy didn't survive the Jihad well.
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The Nova Cat Navy didn't survive the Jihad well.
Even so, we sent them all to Stone's Republic, and the Combine wasn't happy about that.
GC
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Even so, we sent them all to Stone's Republic, and the Combine wasn't happy about that.
GC
Really tempted to throw in a snarky "boo hoo, poor snakes" comment, but I'm better than that.
Yup, I'm better than that. :P
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Even so, we sent them all to Stone's Republic, and the Combine wasn't happy about that.
GC
Maybe because the Cats were supposed to be watching the Ghost Bear border in exchange for the continued cooperation/territory the Combine gave them The loss of the Nova Cat navy left a hefty gap in the Combine's naval defense. Just look at the second war with the Dominion. It would have been a very different fight had the Nova Cat navy been operating in tandem with the DCA.
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Maybe because the Cats were supposed to be watching the Ghost Bear border in exchange for the continued cooperation/territory the Combine gave them The loss of the Nova Cat navy left a hefty gap in the Combine's naval defense. Just look at the second war with the Dominion. It would have been a very different fight had the Nova Cat navy been operating in tandem with the DCA.
At the same time if the Black Dragons had not started striking Nova Cat shipping during the Jihad things may have gone differently
The biggest problem the Combine had was they had NO agreement over the disposition of the Nova Cat navy. When Stone fought to send the Nova Cats back during the Jihad that victory won the ground forces but the navy were under no such agreement.
Now the Jihad was not the Nova Cats greatest hour to begin with. Recalling all their forces to Irece abandoning the Combine probably did not make the host nation very happy but for the DCA Black Dragon aligned naval units to start attacking the Cat shipping was a step too far which I believe is why none returned. At least in the Republic they could be repaired in the Combine I'm not sure if that would have been a guarantee
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At the same time if the Black Dragons had not started striking Nova Cat shipping during the Jihad things may have gone differently
The biggest problem the Combine had was they had NO agreement over the disposition of the Nova Cat navy. When Stone fought to send the Nova Cats back during the Jihad that victory won the ground forces but the navy were under no such agreement.
Now the Jihad was not the Nova Cats greatest hour to begin with. Recalling all their forces to Irece abandoning the Combine probably did not make the host nation very happy but for the DCA Black Dragon aligned naval units to start attacking the Cat shipping was a step too far which I believe is why none returned. At least in the Republic they could be repaired in the Combine I'm not sure if that would have been a guarantee
Even without West's vision, a fight between the DC and CNC was inevitable. Could we have ever won?
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Even without West's vision, a fight between the DC and CNC was inevitable. Could we have ever won?
Depends upon your definition of "winning". Could the CNC regained their independence? Yes. Could they have defeated the DCMS and established themselves as a separate state within the DC borders? No. Could they have established themselves elsewhere? Yes.
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Depends upon your definition of "winning". Could the CNC regained their independence? Yes. Could they have defeated the DCMS and established themselves as a separate state within the DC borders? No. Could they have established themselves elsewhere? Yes.
This
Pre-jihad they'd have had a better chance but then they'd have had to go up against the SLDF to do it which wouldn't have been pretty (all the Succession States)
After the Jhad pre blackout would have been possible but where would they go?
Post Blackout pre actual bid more possible - when they should have gone taking territory from the Republic or on behalf of them vega-esque could have worked
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This
Pre-jihad they'd have had a better chance but then they'd have had to go up against the SLDF to do it which wouldn't have been pretty (all the Succession States)
After the Jhad pre blackout would have been possible but where would they go?
Post Blackout pre actual bid more possible - when they should have gone taking territory from the Republic or on behalf of them vega-esque could have worked
I wonder though, given the fact that the Cats committed themselves to the Star League fully, and occupied snake worlds due to an agreement with Teddy K., if the Cats could have migrated themselves to a different, more "permanent" home under the auspices of being SLDF elite forces? I have no idea where they could have gone (maybe the Davion/Liao or St. Ives/Liao (before Xin Sheng gets going) border), but it would definitely have been more of a possibility while Teddy K. was still alive. As much as I despise the snakes, Teddy was... alright.
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Yup Wonc I always did too strange how families and perceptions change
In a very early draft of my AU I had the Nova Cats stipulate they got to move away from the Clans if they helped defeat the Jags although they didn't out and out betray the other Clans the three options were
Lyon's Thumb which they rejected because the Lyrans wanted the worlds back and it was beside the Combine
St Ives the lower half it basically turned St Ives into an SLDF protectorate eventually I rejected that as well too much hassle.
The third was the Chaos March I had the Nova Cats move in then absorb the highlanders and Dragoons the Capellans and Combine attacked then so Liao and Dieron became occupied then came the big WoB fight eventually the Nova Cats ceased to be the Nova Cats so I dropped the AU completely and went back to the drawing board
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Even without West's vision, a fight between the DC and CNC was inevitable. Could we have ever won?
Well, I think the CNC fleet helped the DC stay 'honest'. A fleet of warships that outnumbers your host tends to do that. When we still had that, we had one heck of a deterrent.
Losing all of it means our ground forces are all that keeps the DC from getting greedy. In the long run, I still think the DC would have 'won' via company store, but we'd be more like the Azami.
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Yup I'd agree Istal which is why I wish they had let us die during the Jihad a proper statement a Clan willing to die for the Inner Sphere surats a proper ending
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Yup I'd agree Istal which is why I wish they had let us die during the Jihad a proper statement a Clan willing to die for the Inner Sphere surats a proper ending
I don't want a 'proper ending', why does Clan Nova Cat have to end? One of the things I like about CNC is how it somehow survives every effort to destroy it.
What else is there? Well, it doesn't try to overwhelm its opponents by over populating its occupation zone. Clan Nova Cat tries to follow its own path even when it doesn't conform or agree with other Clans that have no tolerance for independent thinking. I like stories about Heroes that fight because they are right, and they don't always win. But they win just often enough to be remembered by the next bunch that has to struggle just to live another day.
Well, fighting against impossible odds all the time might seem stupid to most of us, but the entire Clan Nova Cat has been pretty much Solahma since they were Abjured, surviving countless Trials of Annihilation, Grievance, and Refusal.
So, forgive me when I laugh after hearing the Draconis Combine declare that it has Exterminated Clan Nova Cat.
GC
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Well, the Spirit Cats continue on. It may not be in the same form as their old Nova Cat days, but you have to admit, even cultural survival is a better fate than some of their clan brethren. You could be the Fire Mandrils, killed off unceromoniously and without a final act of spite. The Irece Nova Cats at least died fighting while their Spirit Cat cousins were doing their part to aid in their society's survival. Loyalty has been the ultimate underpinning of Nova Cat prosperity. With the 2nd Star League they chose wrong. With the Dragon they chose wrong. With the Republic they chose wrong. Let us hope this time with the League they chose right.
And yet, a spot of regret. The Nova Cat/Draconis Combine arrangement was given a chance, for sure. Poisoned by the Black Dragons and the hatred of the Ghost Bears, but given a chance. What a pity. Had Katana Tormark succeeded the Nova Cats would continue to be valued partners in the Draconis Combine. Instead, they are dead along with Emi, and Toragana rampaging over the remains of Stone's peace. One can only hope the truth about Bhatia and Toranaga eventually gets out so they will eventually have to face their shame.
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Well, the Spirit Cats continue on. It may not be in the same form as their old Nova Cat days, but you have to admit, even cultural survival is a better fate than some of their clan brethren. You could be the Fire Mandrils, killed off unceromoniously and without a final act of spite. The Irece Nova Cats at least died fighting while their Spirit Cat cousins were doing their part to aid in their society's survival. Loyalty has been the ultimate underpinning of Nova Cat prosperity. With the 2nd Star League they chose wrong. With the Dragon they chose wrong. With the Republic they chose wrong. Let us hope this time with the League they chose right.
And yet, a spot of regret. The Nova Cat/Draconis Combine arrangement was given a chance, for sure. Poisoned by the Black Dragons and the hatred of the Ghost Bears, but given a chance. What a pity. Had Katana Tormark succeeded the Nova Cats would continue to be valued partners in the Draconis Combine. Instead, they are dead along with Emi, and Toragana rampaging over the remains of Stone's peace. One can only hope the truth about Bhatia and Toranaga eventually gets out so they will eventually have to face their shame.
A lot of BT factions seem to die unceremoniously. If the writers don't like you, you will be wiped from the pages of history.
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A lot of BT factions seem to die unceremoniously. If the writers don't like you, you will be wiped from the pages of history.
The writers liking or disliking a faction has nothing to do with who lives or dies.
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The writers liking or disliking a faction has nothing to do with who lives or dies.
Can't disagree there if only factions that were liked were around it would be called PeaceTech as Boone would be willing to fight for risk of losing a favoured faction :D
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On the plus side, we can now use zombie mechs with an extra bit of irony.
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The writers liking or disliking a faction has nothing to do with who lives or dies.
While that may be true, I noticed through out MW:DA that CNC and CSC seemed to have a huge target painted on their back (along with many of the other Splinter Factions for that matter). WizKids gave the illusion that the tournament results would have an impact on the story of MW:DA, but the literature didn't back it up. CNC and CSC repeatedly won tournament after tournament, yet in the attached literature faced setback after setback. I always wonder the reason that CNC demise was not decided by a tournament because WizKids was worried that CNC would have likely won that tournament and as a result they would have had to do even more handwavium instead to kill them off.
Side rant:
While I don't expect sci-fi to be 100% accurate to real world physics, I do expect them to follow the in-universe narrative rules. Handwavium is any act by writers to force an outcome that can't emerge organically, and IMHO derails the narrative of the universe and breaks the feeling of consistency and flow of the story. The death of Clan Smoke Jaguar followed a consistent narrative flow till the Trial of Refusal, but the creation of Clan Jade Wolf didn't. Too much handwavium. This is why I think certain things get more backlash within the BT community than others (LAMs vs Protomechs).
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While that may be true, I noticed through out MW:DA that CNC and CSC seemed to have a huge target painted on their back (along with many of the other Splinter Factions for that matter). WizKids gave the illusion that the tournament results would have an impact on the story of MW:DA, but the literature didn't back it up.
While fan actions driving the story is a nice dream, it's not all that practical in the real world, as Catalyst has found out. Too many variables. Storylines are planned out years in advance and there's too great a risk of weird outcomes and blind luck derailing carefully laid plans and arcs.
I always wonder the reason that CNC demise was not decided by a tournament because WizKids was worried that CNC would have likely won that tournament and as a result they would have had to do even more handwavium instead to kill them off.
The reason CNC's demise wasn't decided by tournament is because WizKids didn't get that far in their storyline. ;)
Side rant:
While I don't expect sci-fi to be 100% accurate to real world physics, I do expect them to follow the in-universe narrative rules. Handwavium is any act by writers to force an outcome that can't emerge organically, and IMHO derails the narrative of the universe and breaks the feeling of consistency and flow of the story. The death of Clan Smoke Jaguar followed a consistent narrative flow till the Trial of Refusal, but the creation of Clan Jade Wolf didn't. Too much handwavium. This is why I think certain things get more backlash within the BT community than others (LAMs vs Protomechs).
Problem is, what one person considers "handwavium" another person considers a completely logical development. There is no objective and agreed-upon standard.
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And yet, a spot of regret. The Nova Cat/Draconis Combine arrangement was given a chance, for sure. Poisoned by the Black Dragons and the hatred of the Ghost Bears, but given a chance. What a pity. Had Katana Tormark succeeded the Nova Cats would continue to be valued partners in the Draconis Combine. Instead, they are dead along with Emi, and Toragana rampaging over the remains of Stone's peace. One can only hope the truth about Bhatia and Toranaga eventually gets out so they will eventually have to face their shame.
My only hope is that, if/when those revelations come to light, it is after a washed-out Nova Cat warrior-turned-civilian manages to brutally destroy both of them, and the truth comes out in the wash.
I'll just admit to feeling petty about the whole thing, but I want the snakes to bleed for this, which is still a sight better than what I want for the Bears, but yeah...
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My only hope is that, if/when those revelations come to light, it is after a washed-out Nova Cat warrior-turned-civilian manages to brutally destroy both of them, and the truth comes out in the wash.
I'll just admit to feeling petty about the whole thing, but I want the snakes to bleed for this, which is still a sight better than what I want for the Bears, but yeah...
Perhaps as a biased Combine fan, I give the Dracs a bit of slack this time around. The demise of the Nova Cats comes down to the actions of traitors. I can't say for sure that the Nova Cats believed in the Combine down to the last warrior fighting, but they did side with the legitimate heir to the Dragon Throne. Their deaths were a loss for the Combine, not a victory. The more I dwell on it, the less I am happy even about the DCMS's success against the AFFS, knowing a traitor is at the helm. Everyone is doing what they think is best for the Dragon, but genocide and murder of the legitimate Kurita line is squarely in ego territory rather than necessary evil. This is especially true once it is considered that Vincent Kurita had eventually consented to war for the Dieron region.
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Genocide, Extermination, Mass Sterilization, and you think the Nova Cats will return to the Combine because the Dragon says it's sorry? Don't hold your breath waiting for it.
The Ghost Bears and the Draconis Combine now have a common border with no buffer zone patrolled by a third party. Have Fun With That.
GC
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Genocide, Extermination, Mass Sterilization, and you think the Nova Cats will return to the Combine because the Dragon says it's sorry? Don't hold your breath waiting for it.
The Ghost Bears and the Draconis Combine now have a common border with no buffer zone patrolled by a third party. Have Fun With That.
GC
What's the old saying "Fool me once. shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"
If they want t start a third Dominion-Combine war it won't end well for either side. This late in the timeline it will give the Fed Suns a bit of breathing room, but it might smash a lot of units on both borders before someone says stop.
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If the DC and GB's want to smash heads again, I'll be happy to sit on the sideline for once while egging each side on to increased levels of violence. Feel free to let the WMD's fly. O:-)
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Genocide, Extermination, Mass Sterilization, and you think the Nova Cats will return to the Combine because the Dragon says it's sorry? Don't hold your breath waiting for it.
Oh, not at all. On the other hand, it was a pretty bad period for the Dragon. We all know the soldiers of the DCMS are loyal to a fault. It is a tragedy that murderous conspirators like Bhatia and Toranaga are running the show. My point is that the Dragon is likely headed for a fall, but I certainly don't wish genocide or the like on them. We've seen this kind of behavior before with the Dragoons dependants. Go after the guilty parties, because the rank and file DCMS soldier will defend his master, no matter how heinous to the bitter end. I personally hope the O5P can finally behead Bhatia and the ISF's stranglehold on the DCMS. Then Toranaga gets his from either Tormark or a Nova Cat survivor.
The Ghost Bears and the Draconis Combine now have a common border with no buffer zone patrolled by a third party. Have Fun With That.
GC
This is actually of some interest to me. We now know both parties are willing to resort to genocide. I can only wonder how well that could turn out. Unfortunately for the Ghost Bears, the Rasalhague population wasn't happy about genocide the last time it was tried, and that was against other clanners. Would the Ghost Bears find themselves isolated if they resorted to genocide? Or, is such a policy unrealistic against an enemy as numerous as a Successor State? The Dragon, meanwhile, seems to have no qualms. Not even a blip of guilt like the Kentares Massacre. Maybe clanners, even allied ones don't merit the same consideration as FedSuns civilians.
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Yea regrets and guilty feelings are rare for the Dragon regarding events like Kentares IV but there's another side to that coin. Revenge, and life long vendetta, which means Fear in great big letters if somehow they don't all die. The Honor of a Samurai should be respected, but small breaches of eticate or awkwardness should be forgiven, because the alternative is having to face the legend of the 47 Ronin.
Toranaga won't see them coming, won't know if they are under every rock or tree he can see. He won't know when they will strike or if they are waiting for just the right moment. What He will know is this, They are coming, just for Him, and no one else.
Can he exterminate all the Nova/Spirit Cats in Republic Space? I think it's more than he can manage.
GC
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That's assuming any surviving Nova Cats from the Republic would even be interested in revenge on the Combine. I'm not sure I see it. Fight harder against them and show no mercy should they ever meet on the battlefield? Sure. Go out of their way to take down Toranaga and/or the Combine? Nah.
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I would imagine any still in the Republic at this point, if anything, would be mostly geared toward the survival of the Republic.
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That's assuming any surviving Nova Cats from the Republic would even be interested in revenge on the Combine. I'm not sure I see it. Fight harder against them and show no mercy should they ever meet on the battlefield? Sure. Go out of their way to take down Toranaga and/or the Combine? Nah.
Stranger things have happened. Michi Noketsuna went out of his way. Although this kind of revenge also seems up the alley of a one Mr. Kappa -amended- because of what happened with Katana.
BTW Roosterboy, barely related, but is Wahib Fusili still active?
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Also:
Can he exterminate all the Nova/Spirit Cats in Republic Space? I think it's more than he can manage.
But why would he want to? Toranaga didn't go after the Cats in the Combine until they gave him a reason to do so. He was apparently perfectly willing to let them garrison Dieron and Irece prefectures while he went after the Feddies. It was the actions of the Cats themselves that brought down the fury upon their heads. Toranaga has no reason to go after any Nova Cats who aren't active traitors to the Combine.
And Clanners should totally understand the actions of the Combine in putting down the Nova Cats hard. For all intents and purposes, Toranaga conducted a Trial of Annihilation against the Cats for their own ill-advised actions, much as was done against the Wolverines and Widowmakers for their transgressions. If anyone should understand, it would be Clanners. I just don't see any Clan warriors, not even surviving Nova Cats in the Republic or Protectorate, being all torn up by thoughts of revenge for what happened to the Cats. Yeah, it sucks that their death came at the hands of Inner Sphere surats, but that's what happens when you debase yourself as the Cats did by shacking up with the Combine.
Stranger things have happened. Michi Noketsuna went out of his way.
Michi Noketsuna wasn't a Clanner or someone who had been separated from his ancestral culture for decades. And that ancestral culture is one that looks favorably upon and even valorizes such actions; Clan culture doesn't.
Although this kind of revenge also seems up the alley of a one Mr. Kappa -amended- because of what happened with Katana.
Now, him I could easily see being pissed as hell that he was denied whatever the hell it is he wanted to do with Katana. But that would likely manifest as infiltrating ISF headquarters on New Samarkand to try and find her, if she's still alive. Rescue her and weasel his way into her life even more. Maybe kill Bhatia along the way. But go after Toranaga for revenge? Eh, I just don't see it. After all, Tormark rebelled against the Coordinator; what was Toranaga to do, not go after her just because some psycho he didn't even know about had his own plans?
BTW Roosterboy, barely related, but is Wahib Fusili still active?
No idea. If it hasn't been written about, it's not known. I can't recall off the top of my head what his disposition was at the end of Dragon Rising. Was he in the throne room when Vincent went boom?
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Stranger things have happened. Michi Noketsuna went out of his way. Although this kind of revenge also seems up the alley of a one Mr. Kappa -amended- because of what happened with Katana.
Michi's quest for revenge was against individuals not against the Draconis Combine and the DCMS as a whole. The surviving Nova Cats are very well aware that they don't have the strength to take on even a fraction of the DCMS and hope to survive. Right now their focus is on ensuring their long-term survival. However, once they have grown stronger, that does not mean that if the opportunity arises to strike at the Combine that they would ignore it.
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The cats dont have to go against the entirety of the combine, just a limited profile of targets of those that wronged them directly. The ones whose orders the "loyal soldiers" of the combine followed. Those two who orchestrated the whole issue. As for how much how long they are willing to wait. The movie rushed the issue but the recorded legend (as I remember it) said they waited many years to extract their justice.
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But again, that doesn't fit their character. They aren't the 47 Ronin, they are Clan Nova Cat.
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But again, that doesn't fit their character. They aren't the 47 Ronin, they are Clan Nova Cat.
Right, I see what you mean, Clan Nova Cat has no sense of honor. They aren't supposed to survive a century of attrition after being Abjured and Punished by the Crusader Clans that breed like flies so they can defeat the Inner Sphere with overwhelming numbers. Nova Cats are mewling kittens with short term memory disorder that can't even remember who their true enemies are supposed to be. Nor do they have the fortitude to respond like the Wolf's Dragoons when noncombatant dependents are taken hostage and mutilated.
Nova Cats are perfect scapegoats for every act of malice because nobody likes them anyway and they are even afraid of using weapons of mass destruction so they can't intimidate anyone with their awesome power and ability.
Yup, that's why they deserve to be destroyed until there is nothing left to even remember their names.
GC
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Sometimes the best revenge is just surviving, then cracking open a cold one and laughing maniacally whilest those who would destroy you rend themselves asunder. Maybe also enjoying a nice turkey sandwich.
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The cats dont have to go against the entirety of the combine, just a limited profile of targets of those that wronged them directly. The ones whose orders the "loyal soldiers" of the combine followed. Those two who orchestrated the whole issue. As for how much how long they are willing to wait. The movie rushed the issue but the recorded legend (as I remember it) said they waited many years to extract their justice.
Right, I see what you mean, Clan Nova Cat has no sense of honor. They aren't supposed to survive a century of attrition after being Abjured and Punished by the Crusader Clans that breed like flies so they can defeat the Inner Sphere with overwhelming numbers. Nova Cats are mewling kittens with short term memory disorder that can't even remember who their true enemies are supposed to be. Nor do they have the fortitude to respond like the Wolf's Dragoons when noncombatant dependents are taken hostage and mutilated.
Nova Cats are perfect scapegoats for every act of malice because nobody likes them anyway and they are even afraid of using weapons of mass destruction so they can't intimidate anyone with their awesome power and ability.
Yup, that's why they deserve to be destroyed until there is nothing left to even remember their names.
GC
And how exactly are they to take revenge? Michi was a veteran DCMS officer who was dealing with a culture he had lived in for his entire life. The surviving Nova Cats number less than a cluster of which few, if any, are familiar with the DC culture and have no intelligence apparatus that can get the intelligence they need. Another consideration is the fact that while they took revenge against the Ghost Bears for their actions against the Nova Cats during the First Combine Dominion War, they did nothing to take revenge against either the Jade Falcons or the Wolves for their actions after the Nova Cat Abjuration?
The surviving Nova Cats are simply being realistic. They have no serious chance of avenging themselves at this point in time. They need time to rebuild and grow in strength. Once they have ensured their long-term survival and reestablished themselves as a power to be feared instead of the weakened kitten whose claws were clipped by Stone and the Combine, then they can indulge themselves in some good old-fashioned revenge.
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Right, I see what you mean, Clan Nova Cat has no sense of honor. They aren't supposed to survive a century of attrition after being Abjured and Punished by the Crusader Clans that breed like flies so they can defeat the Inner Sphere with overwhelming numbers. Nova Cats are mewling kittens with short term memory disorder that can't even remember who their true enemies are supposed to be. Nor do they have the fortitude to respond like the Wolf's Dragoons when noncombatant dependents are taken hostage and mutilated.
Nova Cats are perfect scapegoats for every act of malice because nobody likes them anyway and they are even afraid of using weapons of mass destruction so they can't intimidate anyone with their awesome power and ability.
Yup, that's why they deserve to be destroyed until there is nothing left to even remember their names.
That's weird. You'd think I'd remember saying something that even slightly resembled any of this.
But I don't.
Huh.
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But again, that doesn't fit their character. They aren't the 47 Ronin, they are Clan Nova Cat.
Indeed it is a stretch, and fairly easily written off as wish fulfillment of Nova Cat fans, but I draw upon the example of Minoru and his personal vendetta against his sister's murderer. Now Minoru was a Kurita first, which tempered his personality at its formation, but he was also one of the most enthusiastic Nova Cats the Clan ever saw. After decades of drawing on both his DNA and his example, I wouldn't put it past any surviving Mystic or Warrior washout survivor taking it upon themselves to have the last laugh for their dead Clan.
Also, grudges, be they revenged or not, are something of a Nova Cat thing. That's one of the reasons the Cats kept pissing off the Bears, for good or for ill. They're not the Smoke Jaguars level of angry, but they are still very much an aggressively minded Clan with a long memory for slights. A lot of that got lost over the years as they took on their own distinctive flavor (beyond being a partial clone of the Jags with a slightly different theme, which brings up an interesting line of thought about how they mirror the Steel Vipers in their inception, as well as their fate; I digress, though), but any Clan that could maintain a century-long feud with the Jaguars, and manage to stay toe to toe with those beloved psychos, definitely is more tenacious than they might initially appear.
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But again, that doesn't fit their character. They aren't the 47 Ronin, they are Clan Nova Cat.
And the centuries long feud with the Smoke Jaguars was born completely out of practicality and rationalism? They're still a Clan, and feuds are a thing. Not that I think they're going to whole heartedly make killing the DC off one of their goals beyond revenge fantasy, but making it difficult for the DC when they have the chance? Sure thing. And if the DC shogun does something that makes him an easy target, headhunter strikes are a thing too.
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Indeed it is a stretch, and fairly easily written off as wish fulfillment of Nova Cat fans, but I draw upon the example of Minoru and his personal vendetta against his sister's murderer. Now Minoru was a Kurita first, which tempered his personality at its formation, but he was also one of the most enthusiastic Nova Cats the Clan ever saw. After decades of drawing on both his DNA and his example, I wouldn't put it past any surviving Mystic or Warrior washout survivor taking it upon themselves to have the last laugh for their dead Clan.
Minoru was hunting the assassin in his home state with a sympathetic public and the ability to commandeer DCMS forces. Somehow I don't think that any Republic Nova Cat would be able to claim the same advantages.
Also, grudges, be they revenged or not, are something of a Nova Cat thing.
Not sure where you got this idea because they didn't hold onto their grudges any more than any other Clan. For most of its existence, while individual units held grudges against other Clans, the only feud they maintained was the one with the Smoke Jaguars (and there were plenty of other clans that shared their sentiments towards the Smoke Jaguars). Their tendency to ignore logic or emotions in favor of visions made them allies of questionable worth. After all, they may be allies for decades but could potentially turn on their allies if a vision instructs them to and vice versa enemies could potentially become allies.
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And the centuries long feud with the Smoke Jaguars was born completely out of practicality and rationalism? They're still a Clan, and feuds are a thing.
feuding != actively seeking revenge
Not that I think they're going to whole heartedly make killing the DC off one of their goals beyond revenge fantasy, but making it difficult for the DC when they have the chance? Sure thing.
Which, if memory serves, is exactly what I said. Let me check... yup: "Fight harder against them and show no mercy should they ever meet on the battlefield? Sure."
And if the DC shogun does something that makes him an easy target, headhunter strikes are a thing too.
But that's an opportunistic attack, not a campaign of active revenge. So, not the same thing we're talking about.
Indeed it is a stretch, and fairly easily written off as wish fulfillment of Nova Cat fans
And this is exactly what it boils down to: an understandable real-world desire for revenge overriding the in-universe character of the faction.
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Michi Noketsuna wasn't a Clanner or someone who had been separated from his ancestral culture for decades. And that ancestral culture is one that looks favorably upon and even valorizes such actions; Clan culture doesn't.
Maybe i'm overestimating the impact of 70+ years of cohabitation. The reservations may have kept the stories of the 47 Ronin at the gates.
Now, him I could easily see being pissed as hell that he was denied whatever the hell it is he wanted to do with Katana. But that would likely manifest as infiltrating ISF headquarters on New Samarkand to try and find her, if she's still alive. Rescue her and weasel his way into her life even more. Maybe kill Bhatia along the way. But go after Toranaga for revenge? Eh, I just don't see it. After all, Tormark rebelled against the Coordinator; what was Toranaga to do, not go after her just because some psycho he didn't even know about had his own plans?[/quote]
He had previously worked beside her as the Bounty Hunter while she was not yet sanctioned by Vincent. I'm not sure what that says about his loyalty to the Dragon throne, or how concerned he is with who was in the right as so much as being fixated on Katana. He has also done things like strike out at Bhatia to send a message. I get the impression that going after either party is not entirely outside the realm of possibility. Not saying it would happen, but he is a capable and perhaps motivated agent of change.
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Do you think Clan Spirit Cat Watch has learned enough from the ISF and 5 Pillars to be able to penetrate the DC and maybe even exact revenge on House Kurita?
I always wanted the Mystic Caste to produce a Kurita heir that would take over the DC in the long run and use Clan Nova Cat as the Coordinator's Elite Guard. The greatest generals of the DC being Trueborn Nova Cat Warriors serving a thrown backed by a Eugenics program. I'm sure many DC citizens would have viewed this as an abomination akin to the Van Roors Dynasty.
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Do you think Clan Spirit Cat Watch has learned enough from the ISF and 5 Pillars to be able to penetrate the DC and maybe even exact revenge on House Kurita?
No. But, the ISF is so busy monitoring the loyalty of the DCMS, right down to embedding DEST trooprs in line units, there is a window of opportunity if ever there was one.
I always wanted the Mystic Caste to produce a Kurita heir that would take over the DC in the long run and use Clan Nova Cat as the Coordinator's Elite Guard.
Did they ever say whether or not Minoru Nova Cat had any children? Was his material ever entered into the mystic program? The line of how legit a Kurita trueborn would be in taking the throne seems kind of moot if Yuri qualifies.
At any rate, i'm curious to know what Nova Cat facilities survived the massacre. Are Rabids and Thunderbirds finding their way to the DCMS? Are the Spirit Cats using Rabids supplied by the Sea Foxes to prop up their identity? Who shot JR?
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The entire Mystic program is based off of Minoru's genes... but always as the maternal source. That's why no Mystic can ever win a Bloodname.
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And this is exactly what it boils down to: an understandable real-world desire for revenge overriding the in-universe character of the faction.
So then, respectfully, we must agree to disagree on this one.
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The entire Mystic program is based off of Minoru's genes... but always as the maternal source. That's why no Mystic can ever win a Bloodname.
IIRC that was part of the deal on letting Minoru join CNC. He would start up the Mystic Caste, and in return he would lose his right to call himself Kurita (thus officially killing off that line to the throne). So technically the blood legacy still exists (if part of the Mystic Caste survived the genocide), but in the DC legal system, the blood legacy lost it's right to become Coordinator.
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Minoru joined the Nova Cats some four decades before the Mystic program was founded. It was created in the wake of and as a response to the Second Dominion War.
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Minoru joined the Nova Cats some four decades before the Mystic program was founded. It was created in the wake of and as a response to the Second Dominion War.
Right, the terms of him becoming a bondsmen were that he drop his connection to the Kurita throne.
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Do you think Clan Spirit Cat Watch has learned enough from the ISF and 5 Pillars to be able to penetrate the DC and maybe even exact revenge on House Kurita?
I always wanted the Mystic Caste to produce a Kurita heir that would take over the DC in the long run and use Clan Nova Cat as the Coordinator's Elite Guard. The greatest generals of the DC being Trueborn Nova Cat Warriors serving a thrown backed by a Eugenics program. I'm sure many DC citizens would have viewed this as an abomination akin to the Van Roors Dynasty.
I think you just made the DC fans commit ritual suicide ;)
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Do you think Clan Spirit Cat Watch has learned enough from the ISF and 5 Pillars to be able to penetrate the DC and maybe even exact revenge on House Kurita?
A big assumption that the ISF or the O5P would have taught the Nova Cat Watch anything. From the start the Nova Cats were viewed as outsiders and never completely trusted by the DC. For most of Clan Nova Cat's early years in the Draconis Combine the ISF was heavily infiltrated by the Black Dragons who sought their destruction which would make it hard for the Nova Cat Watch to trust them. Not to mention that the Nova Cat Watch lost a lot of personnel when they were thrown out of the Clan Homeworlds and since then really haven't had the resources to rebuild. While they may have learned some tricks from the SLIC, the Jihad and the subsequent formation of the Republic of the Sphere probably gutted what was left with many dieing in the long conflict and many others being handed over to the Republic at the end of the war along with most of their touman.
While the Nova Cat probably rebuild at least a small Clan Watch to keep an eye on the Ghost Bears, that Watch was likely destroyed along with the rest of Clan Nova Cat when they supported Emi Kurita's claim to the throne. While a few individuals may have escaped the purges, they have few resources to fall back on and no means of regrouping other than physically contacting each other. All the while being hunted by ISF and O5P agents.
No. But, the ISF is so busy monitoring the loyalty of the DCMS, right down to embedding DEST trooprs in line units, there is a window of opportunity if ever there was one.
While overall ISF coverage is probably down, security around Coordinator Yori Kurita and Kanrei Toranage is probably especially high because there is a war going on and more because they are afraid of a FedSuns assassin getting through than fear of any Nova Cat retaliation. After the assassination of Vincent Kurita and his family, the Otomo and the Izanagi Warriors are likely extremely paranoid. I doubt any of them put much faith in their chances should another Coordinator be assassinated on their watch. If they are lucky they would be permitted to commit seppuku, but the ISF isn't likely to be merciful.
At any rate, i'm curious to know what Nova Cat facilities survived the massacre. Are Rabids and Thunderbirds finding their way to the DCMS? Are the Spirit Cats using Rabids supplied by the Sea Foxes to prop up their identity?
I believe most Nova Cat production facilities were handed over to LAW who may be selling some of their ClanTech production to the Sea Foxes in exchange for technology they cannot produce.
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A big assumption that the ISF or the O5P would have taught the Nova Cat Watch anything.
O5P, yes, probably. Or maybe not necessarily taught, but influenced and aided. They were long-standing allies of the Cats and collaborated with them on the Mystic project. And, of course, the whole reason Emi was in hiding with the Cats in the first place was because of the close ties between the Clan and the Order.
All the while being hunted by ISF and O5P agents.
Probably not O5P in anything more than the most cursory manner, likely just enough to keep Toranaga and his allies off their backs and not suspicious of the Order's loyalty.
In fact, I could easily see an O5P-run "underground railroad" to help individual Cats or even very small groups of Cat civilians escape the Combine.
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Who has the most effective Clan Watch? From my Guide to Covert Ops, Clan Watch were considered subpar to the different organizations of the Successor States and were more akin to Military Intelligence than a proper spy agency.
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Okay, so here's an old chestnut of a topic that I haven't seen for an age: when did you get into the Nova Cats? Also, what was it that drew you in?
For myself, it was Tukayyid that sold me on them. All of the sudden, here was this mysterious, ultra-religious (after their own fashion), hard fighting group that managed to gut the ComGuards, even in the face of defeat. I spent a while bouncing back and forth between who I rooted for within the universe, but the Cats always stuck in the back of my mind. Eventually, I gave in to the inevitable, and it was all down hill from there.
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Who has the most effective Clan Watch? From my Guide to Covert Ops, Clan Watch were considered subpar to the different organizations of the Successor States and were more akin to Military Intelligence than a proper spy agency.
It used to be the Wolves under Phelan.
Now? I'd guess the Sea Fox. They're the ones most likely to come across and track interesting tidbits, and the least scruple about using that to make a buck.
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No idea. If it hasn't been written about, it's not known. I can't recall off the top of my head what his disposition was at the end of Dragon Rising. Was he in the throne room when Vincent went boom?
He was already questioning his loyalty to Bhatia because of the whole Dasha thing. He was in the throne room, but so was Katana, Crawford, Bhatia and Kappa. Fusili was noted as trying to beat a path for Katana, but being too late to stop the bomb. Maybe he is still alive. Maybe he was cought up in the purges.
While overall ISF coverage is probably down, security around Coordinator Yori Kurita and Kanrei Toranage is probably especially high because there is a war going on and more because they are afraid of a FedSuns assassin getting through than fear of any Nova Cat retaliation. After the assassination of Vincent Kurita and his family, the Otomo and the Izanagi Warriors are likely extremely paranoid. I doubt any of them put much faith in their chances should another Coordinator be assassinated on their watch. If they are lucky they would be permitted to commit seppuku, but the ISF isn't likely to be merciful.
Yeah, agents in every DCMS regiment.
As for the Otomo, they are a bit touchy concerning the deaths of Vincent and family. They were thoroughly vetted after the attack to ensure loyalty. The Izanagi Warriors, however, were vetted by the O5P, not ISF, and didn't lose a single member between the attacks to present. That might leave an O5P opening to exact revenge. Although, to be fair, it doesn't take a cluster of clan troops to strike at the Coordinator. Kappa was a lone man that infiltrated the Imperial Palace and killed Chomie.
The more I think about it, the more I realize it was Bhatia that hated the Nova Cats. He was the one that killed the mystics and set up the camps. Here's to hoping he gets what's coming.
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Who has the most effective Clan Watch? From my Guide to Covert Ops, Clan Watch were considered subpar to the different organizations of the Successor States and were more akin to Military Intelligence than a proper spy agency.
Excluding Phelan's Wolves, who received IS assistance, I would have to go with the Diamond Sharks (later Sea Fox). Not only were they the primary administrators of the Chatterweb, but their Watch included a large number of the merchant caste (including many warrior-traders) which helped them establish better relations with lower castes than Watches dominated by members of the warrior caste and, unlike most other Watches, they paid attention to non-military intelligence as well. By the 3080s, the Diamond Shark Watch evolved into an intelligence agency that was just as capable as any Inner Sphere agencies and was considered by some to be just as dangerous as any intelligence/covert ops team in the Inner Sphere including the Manei Domini.
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Okay, so here's an old chestnut of a topic that I haven't seen for an age: when did you get into the Nova Cats? Also, what was it that drew you in?
For myself, it was Tukayyid that sold me on them.
I could say the same thing, but it was more like I was dissatisfied with every faction that had the Heavy Hand Of God pushing them around. So, there was a strong tendency to avoid mainstream factions that followed Canon Storyline and could do no wrong. Unless the Storyline was setting them up to just be the bad guys, of course.
Being Clan was not that important or interesting to me, But the Cats had a quality that other Invader Clans didn't. They weren't always trying to solve everything by trying to kill something.
Even so, it wasn't until the Dark Age and Wizkids invented the Spirit Cats that I went and took another look at Clan Nova Cat and I liked what I read about them. And the time line for the Jihad was still in development with only a few early events having been published, so the future had some good things (promised) coming soon.
You might say I am more Spirit Cat and retcon to be Nova Cat.
GC
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To be honest, I wasn't interested in the Nova Cats until they fled to the Combine.
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Okay, so here's an old chestnut of a topic that I haven't seen for an age: when did you get into the Nova Cats? Also, what was it that drew you in?
Mechwarrior RPG 3rd Edition. I had two players that insisted on playing clan characters and I told them they either had to play Clan Nova Cat, or Clan Wolf (in Exile) because everyone else was IS. They both chose Clan Nova Cat and they both really did their research on how to play their characters accurately. They won me over.
I've chosen Clan Nova Cat as my primary faction ever since the DC civil war. I really thought that CNC with DC working together to create the Draconis Dominion would have been the greatest faction in BT, but that was crapped on, fertilized, and then incinerated. I've lost all faith in DC and now I'm purely Clan Spirit Cat.
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For me it was the novel Path of Glory - right after being kicked out of Clan space. I pretty much devoured everything about them after that. Before it was Northwind Highlanders, Skye and the FedSuns
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Now? I'd guess the Sea Fox. They're the ones most likely to come across and track interesting tidbits, and the least scruple about using that to make a buck.
Yeah, that combined with their mystery assets in the Chainelane Isle is why the Foxes kind of scare me.
Okay, so here's an old chestnut of a topic that I haven't seen for an age: when did you get into the Nova Cats? Also, what was it that drew you in?
While I had been a fan of the video games in high school, I had no exposure to the table top game and the larger fictional universe until college. Specifically, I had two roommates who were long time players more than happy to walk me through my first few games, answer my questions, and let me borrow their books at any time. The first I really poured over was Invading Clans. The way the Cats were presented in IC just clicked with me on a weird personal level that was all she wrote. The spirituality combined with an emphasis on practical matters was perfect (being second best in a wide range of fields is admirable and pretty durn hard to pull off). Plus it the back of their section held the Huntsman, speaking of things I have irrational connections too. :D
Of course FASA ceased active operations less than two years later. One of those roommates was more than happy to sell me some of his books. I still have that copy of IC and flip though the Nova Cat section more often that is probably healthy.
While I was more than happy to tide myself over as a Spirit Cat player in MW:DA, there was much happy dancing when the Nova Cats were introduced as a proper faction. Unfortunately by that point our first munchkin had come along so I hadn't the time nor the cash to snag those pieces.
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Cats are a recent thing for me because I always invest in the smallest and weakest and then work to build them into a powerhouse. If I can get the Solomons recognized and cannonized its going to be part of the protectorate and be a power builder for them and the Cats.
If not then I will really throw in to the Nova/Spirit Cats.
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Cats are a recent thing for me because I always invest in the smallest and weakest and then work to build them into a powerhouse. If I can get the Solomons recognized and cannonized its going to be part of the protectorate and be a power builder for them and the Cats.
If not then I will really throw in to the Nova/Spirit Cats.
Solomons? what's that? If it's a new Solahma unit, the Cats don't need it. Compared to the Green Hornets and the Dire Puppies, we might be small in number, but hardly what you'd call weak. The best place a Clan Warrior can be is in a Target Rich Environment.
"Just One of Us and a Hundred of You, and try not to get in each others' way, that's just embarrassing."
Well, this is why we don't have Solahma in the Spirit Cats, and the Nova Cats have only Survivors and Refugees (according to official reports).
GC
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I realized that my RL last name was a blood name that I could only find among the 'Cats. I don't know if it's actually exclusive to them but it's the only clan I've ever found it in. So, I took it as a sign...
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To be honest, I wasn't interested in the Nova Cats until they fled to the Combine.
You do realize that there is no indication that any Nova Cats from the Combine made it to the Clan Protectorate, right?
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You do realize that there is no indication that any Nova Cats from the Combine made it to the Clan Protectorate, right?
Read it again, he said "TO the Combine". To be honest, I didn't think the Combine was all that interesting until the Nova Cats moved in. We knew it couldn't last long, but together, they both became a lot more fun to talk about.
Sure we're going to miss the banter about cosplay samurai and catgirl battlemaids, but there is hope that the Protectorate can reinvent the Cats with a new image. As for Combine Cats making it all the way to the Clan Protectorate, a few stragglers might turn up even after a ten year Odyssey through the Clan OZ. Though we might end up with a Starbuck that can't remember his/her own gender. (ooh that's sooo anime!!!)
GC
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You do realize that there is no indication that any Nova Cats from the Combine made it to the Clan Protectorate, right?
I didn't mention the Clan Protectorate. I was referring to when they were abjured and took up residence inside the Draconis Combine. On their own the Nova Cats hold no interest for me. Seeing them interact with non-clan groups while trying to maintain their clan traditions is what interests me. To that end, the Republic and Clan Protectorate Cats intrigue me, as well.
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I realized that my RL last name was a blood name that I could only find among the 'Cats. I don't know if it's actually exclusive to them but it's the only clan I've ever found it in. So, I took it as a sign...
I almost went a similar way, as my maternal grandmother's maiden name is a Coyote bloodname, and yes, I'm just that much of a nerd to think "Ooh, matrilineal link!" Unfortunately, the 'yotes never held my interest, which is sad because purely fluff-wise they're an okay fit for my personality. Their 'Mechs, however, left me feeling more "meh" than "yay," which I'm sure will have many people screaming blasphemy at me, but 'tis the truth.
Ironically enough, in keeping with that idea, Clan Mongoose has two bloodnamed warriors, side by side, that fit my mother and her favorite brother's names. One even has a surname that's close to their own. Good thing/unfortunately the Mongooses are already dead, so...
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Ok, so: something has been bugging me for a few months now.
What in the b'jeezus happened to Biccon Winters after she retired as our Clan's Loremaster? If there's no information, what is most likely to have occurred? Vision, maybe?
For some reason, I could imagine her going on some sort of sabbatical/pilgrimage thingy, visiting her Clan's worlds in the DC to observe her people and get a feel for them directly and observe the general morale of her Clan. I mean, they've been through near-literal hell; what looks good in reports and in the digital text on a screen isn't always entirely accurate....
Dunno where I'm going with that. ???
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I almost went a similar way, as my maternal grandmother's maiden name is a Coyote bloodname, and yes, I'm just that much of a nerd to think "Ooh, matrilineal link!" Unfortunately, the 'yotes never held my interest, which is sad because purely fluff-wise they're an okay fit for my personality. Their 'Mechs, however, left me feeling more "meh" than "yay," which I'm sure will have many people screaming blasphemy at me, but 'tis the truth.
Ironically enough, in keeping with that idea, Clan Mongoose has two bloodnamed warriors, side by side, that fit my mother and her favorite brother's names. One even has a surname that's close to their own. Good thing/unfortunately the Mongooses are already dead, so...
If I went with the maternal link thing I'd get Andrews... Was that one exclusive?
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It's entirely possible that she died of old age and natural causes after being incinerated by a WMD.
I say it's possible, but who really knows for sure? A lot of Nova Cats died suddenly during the last mass extermination attempt. But that's old news now and nobody ever got an accurate body count.
GC
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Pretty sure the Field Manual - ComStar had Biccon Winters joining the Second Star League's military planning staff. If that's the case, she probably bit the dust in the Jihad. When in doubt, blame the Jihad ;)
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Pretty sure the Field Manual - ComStar had Biccon Winters joining the Second Star League's military planning staff. If that's the case, she probably bit the dust in the Jihad. When in doubt, blame the Jihad ;)
Like I said, "Old Age and Natural Causes right after the detonation of the nearest relevant Weapon of Mass Destruction."
It is most convenient and plausible, and expedient without any further explanation. Is there any other way for a Storyline Character to bite the dust after forty years of strenuous inactivity?
GC
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It's entirely possible that she died of old age and natural causes after being incinerated by a WMD.
I actually DID post the question on Ask the Writers once. They didn't really know either. ;D I'd link the post but I cant find the thing now. I'm assuming it was pre-forum wipe.
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I like to think Biccon didn't die, so much as go off into the universe to find a way of purifying her, shall we say "spotty," record of vision interpretation. Honestly though, I'm okay with never knowing. Sometimes people just fade into the ether, leaving us to wonder what final adventure they sought before whatever fate had in store for them. She was always one of the most tortured and enigmatic characters in the BattleTech universe, and not in an annoying way, either.
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Only reason I was asking is because it may have some rather large bearing on a large event for the Clan in our timeline.
Also...who was Loremaster before Biccon?
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Also...who was Loremaster before Biccon?
Not a clue. Biccon was the first mentioned in Invading Clans, and the only one ever referenced up until they took the snake runt in as their own. Unless they decide to publish a Field Manual-style book about the pre-Invasion era of the Clans, I doubt we'll ever know.
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Not a clue. Biccon was the first mentioned in Invading Clans, and the only one ever referenced up until they took the snake runt in as their own. Unless they decide to publish a Field Manual-style book about the pre-Invasion era of the Clans, I doubt we'll ever know.
The Revival Trials may shed light on it although I think Winters was in the job a while
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Eh, I was needing to know who was Loremaster as early as 3029. I'll see if I can find Biccon's age and extrapolate from there. Then just make up some random dude/dudette if I need a Loremaster pre-Biccon for my fanfic.
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Friendly reminder... Biccon Winters was the Nova Cat's Oathmaster, not Loremaster.
Although for CNC purposes, it's much the same job.
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Blargh, there I go again.
Katwylder slapped me on the wrist on Skype a while back because I mistakenly thought that the common language in the IS was called Basic. Helloooooo wrong sci fi. *facedesk*
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Blargh, there I go again.
Katwylder slapped me on the wrist on Skype a while back because I mistakenly thought that the common language in the IS was called Basic. Helloooooo wrong sci fi. *facedesk*
Yup yup although Basic English is likely spoken throughout the IS as a trade language O0
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I was actually going to ask if the IS has a universal trade language...
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Probably German or French. Time to bring back the original Lingua Franca ;D
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I'd think English on account of it being the primary of the Free Worlds League and the secondary or unofficial of large batches of the Lyran Commonwealth and Federated Suns. Star League English being the clan standard, as well.
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I'd think English on account of it being the primary of the Free Worlds League and the secondary or unofficial of large batches of the Lyran Commonwealth and Federated Suns. Star League English being the clan standard, as well.
This. English was the language of the Star League (descended itself from Canadian English), and the great bulk of the worlds colonized in the Inner Sphere were done under the auspices of the Star League or one of its subcontractors. Probably include basic functionality in Japanese, French, German, Swedish, Russian, or Mandarin depending on what part of the Inner Sphere "compass" the traders were working in. Also, based on what I'm remembering, Portuguese is/was fairly common among spacers, and for some reason I want to say Dutch was also common as well. Don't quote me on the last two, but that's just what's coming to mind.
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A shame proper Canadian spelling didn't survive ;)
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I have this sudden urge to paint a Wolverine II in SLDF colors with "bub" and "eh" scrawled somewhere on it...
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DOO EET. :D
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I have this sudden urge to paint a Wolverine II in SLDF colors with "bub" and "eh" scrawled somewhere on it...
ARGH!! I'd need to destroy that Mech if I saw it the Not Named has no place here
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I have this sudden urge to paint a Wolverine II in SLDF colors with "bub" and "eh" scrawled somewhere on it...
Only if you promise to paint a Phoenix Hawk in yellow, red, and blue; an Atlas all in green with purple accents; and a Cyclops in blue and yellow.
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Only if you promise to paint a Phoenix Hawk in yellow, red, and blue; an Atlas all in green with purple accents; and a Cyclops in blue and yellow.
Am I a bad person for seriously considering doing this?
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I think someone already has, actually. I remember seeing some of those in the mini's section.
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I step away from the site for a few months, and you all go an open a new Cave. Took me a while to find my way here. }:)
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I step away from the site for a few months, and you all go an open a new Cave. Took me a while to find my way here. }:)
Welcome back now beware of the BRAAAAIIINS!!!! BRAAAAIIINS!!! Guys they are harmless really
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Brains. Cookies. They're all the same, right?
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Brains are sweeter and not as crunchy unless you deep fry them. ;)
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As long as we get to Dance, it's all good.
GC
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Brains. Cookies. They're all the same, right?
Only if you sprinkle the brains with raisins.
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Brains. Cookies. They're all the same, right?
Unless you subscribe to the theory that suggests the kinds of knowledge that a brain processes results in it having a particular "taste." ;D
[Not quite sure where I remember reading that.]
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As most of you could probably guessed from my previous points after reading the Twlight of the Clans novel shadows of war I wanted to punch the Nova Cat Khan
Now after reading the opening chapters of Prince of Havoc I want to congratulate the Nova Cat Khan making as valid points as Vlad Ward of the Wolves but in their own way. Argh I want more novels >:(
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Page two? Page two?! A month between posts?
Oh come now, trothkin. We may be dead, but darn it all, we (used to be) the noisiest deadies the forum's ever known. #P
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...Not much to discuss. News is a bit slow in general.
Not unless you wanna discuss me getting to League 4 in Awesomenauts. :D
"What do I feel when I shoot someone? Recoil"
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And I'm so hip and with it I had to look that game up. #P
...Not much to discuss. News is a bit slow in general.
Agreed, there's not too much to discuss for the time being.
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It's been generally quiet recently there's things to come I'm sure guess waiting is not a strong suit :P
Me personally I keep wishing to see a new releases update - don't know why I want to spend more cash
I'd actually like an Early Clans XTRO with the Early Clan Mechs - the Vision Quest included - one can dream
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You and me both
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There's always speculation about where Kisho and the gang ended up. I'm leaning toward someplace with actual catgirls. No one would seriously suspected such a final destination!
Bonus points if the planet has access to marshmallow fluff. Merely because I feel Kisho has a penchant for it.
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Early era clan mechs can be found in op: Klondike. Maybe also in Golden Century
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Early era clan mechs can be found in op: Klondike. Maybe also in Golden Century
Yeah there's a couple in Klondlike but the Nova Cats first official Mech is still waiting to reach the stage
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Yep, just not all the ones that are know, or at least named. For example we know that the first 'Mechs produced by Nova Cat, Ghost Bear and Sea Fox/Diamond Shark are the Vision Quest, Minsk, and Fox respectively. And the first ASF produced by the Cats and Sharks are the Quasit and Ogotai. And at some point during the Golden Century the Vipers cranked out the Storm Giant 'Mech.
Six designs do not quite an XTRO make unfortunately. :-\
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Factor in the early Clan WarShips you have the Jade Falcons Perigraine at the least (away from books)
I believe there was a prototype BA before the Elemental by the Goliath Scorpions which became the Undine
That's 8 designs at least O0
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I believe there was an early Wolf WarShip as well ....
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Clearly, it will need to include the first Mandrill Mech, the only Mech in history built with a gun aimed directly at its own cockpit.
(Also, if the Cat Mech isn't covered with Lasers, I will be disappointed.)
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Would you accept laser pointers?
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Would you accept laser pointers?
Only if they were ER models
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Sweet, I could freak out the neighbor's pets from the comfort of my (command) couch.
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ER Laser Pointer: No damage, but if it hits the head of the opposing Mech, the mech automatically falls over due to pilot blindness.
Also, +3 against cats.
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ER Laser Pointer: No damage, but if it hits the head of the opposing Mech, the mech automatically falls over due to pilot blindness.
Also, +3 against cats.
No wonder the Jags hated us
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No wonder the Jags hated us
It's even worse for the Jaguars; they didn't have much of an attention span to begin with! And now there are red dots going around! THE RED DOTS MOCK THE JAGUAR AND MUST BE STOPPED!
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And then they get distracted by the whirr of a can opener.
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And then they get distracted by the whirr of a can opener.
I feel like all Clan Can openers would be like the one I use to open #10 cans at work: it'll open pretty much any can, but be careful using mere mortal cans in that, or else you may make them explode.
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Just imagine the kinds of can openers the Society might have developed ...
Though I'm having issues determining how Streak capability would improve efficacy sufficiently to justify the increased opener BV.
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Just imagine the kinds of can openers the Society might have developed ...
Though I'm having issues determining how Streak capability would improve efficacy sufficiently to justify the increased opener BV.
A Streak Can Opener, which only operates in the presence of cans, is MUCH less likely to, say, end up being slammed into one's own hand. Or foot. Neither of which are cans, but will CERTAINLY be opened if the can opener is used improperly. So a Streak Can Opener kinda functions as a CASE for Can Openers as well; it is much LESS likely that the user will end up hurting themselves in hilarious fashion.
(Strangely, I haven't injured myself with the can opener at work.)
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That's better than the CASE II can opener system which just vents the contents out the back of the can. Especially whilst the can is rotating.
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That's better than the CASE II can opener system which just vents the contents out the back of the can. Especially whilst the can is rotating.
And given the speeds at which those cans rotate, that's even MORE dangerous! The contents tend to be hot just due to sheer friction!
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Factor in the early Clan WarShips you have the Jade Falcons Perigraine at the least (away from books)
I believe there was a prototype BA before the Elemental by the Goliath Scorpions which became the Undine
I think there were a couple mentions of other early battlearmor too, it's just the Elemental was so good all around no one developed them.
Probably toss in the first Omni prototype if you're hurting for choices, as well as the first Omni vehicle and Omnifighter.
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I think there were a couple mentions of other early battlearmor too, it's just the Elemental was so good all around no one developed them.
Probably toss in the first Omni prototype if you're hurting for choices, as well as the first Omni vehicle and Omnifighter.
First Omni is covered by the Golden Century the Coyotl
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I think there were a couple mentions of other early battlearmor too, it's just the Elemental was so good all around no one developed them.
The Rhino is mentioned in the Gnome's write up. While it also states the Gnome is the first heavy suit produced by the Clans, it also says the Rhino mounts more armor than the Elemental. That kinda forces into heavy territory.
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First Omni is covered by the Golden Century the Coyotl
Prototype, as in 'not final production version' :)
"Early prototypes of the Coyotl included an extended-range particle cannon with the rest of the armament being based around that..."
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And given the speeds at which those cans rotate, that's even MORE dangerous! The contents tend to be hot just due to sheer friction!
How have we forgotten the Streak LRM Treat Launcher? You add a ton of pouch ammo and the shaker attachment, and all hell breaks loose.
As for getting to see the first Cat 'Mech, I'm down. Throw in the ever-elusive Storm Giant, and I'd probably line up for the first copy of whatever the product was. Unless it was a detailed catalog of all Nova Cat losses and failures over the course of their existence.
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The fact that I'm going through Jeremy Brett's "Sherlock Holmes" and the fact that the Nova Cats have a certain proclivity towards long range and accuracy have given me a REALLY nerdy idea for a name to go with a Nova Cat Mech.
The Moran.
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...I think you're going to need to expand on that one. I don't get it.
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...I think you're going to need to expand on that one. I don't get it.
Operating under the assumption that you're at least passingly familiar with the Sherlock Holmes mythos; Colonel Sebastian Moran was Prof. James Moriarty's number two. An ex-soldier, he basically was one of Moriarty's professional hit men, and operated as a sniper using a customized air rifle.
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OIC. I did better at spotting references when we stuck to a feline based naming system. :D
What would the Rum Tum Tugger be armed with?
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It would be an Omni mounting laser heat sinks and a fog machine. Easily equipped with whatever might be counter-intuitive to the optimal configuration for the pending Trial. All the better for showing off how much awesome(!) you are.
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...I would TOTALLY use a mech armed with a fog machine. I suppose we could just call that a smoke generator? Pity there are no rule for it. I suppose you could just use Smoke LRM batteries.
Thinking about it, "Memory" is a pretty good theme song for us.
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And of course, the Nova Cats would be the only producers of the Skimbleshanks Omnitrain. ;D
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...Wouldn't an Omnitrain just be attaching and removing railcars? :D
Thinking about it, there's a prototype experiment for you. A pseudo Omni-vehicle that uses a tow hitch and trailers to change mission layout. Main vehicle, nothing but engine and armor (which might actually make it a decent scout vehicle when 'empty').
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Funny you should mention that Istal, is anyone else here familiar with what Marine Corps aviation calls a budda, its one of our tow tractors. We use it to move C130s and V22 Ospreys, I've always felt it would be a marvelous point vehicle because you would need an anti-tank mine to get through the armor plating on it that it uses for extra weight.
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*blinks at the Coming Soon pages*
...When did THOSE get there? Or have I just been blind?
Operation Turning Point: REVIVAL Trials
Operation Turning Point: Widowmaker Absorption
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*blinks at the Coming Soon pages*
...When did THOSE get there? Or have I just been blind?
Operation Turning Point: REVIVAL Trials
Operation Turning Point: Widowmaker Absorption
I noticed them this morning too good news on both
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Question for my Nova Cat friends....
Re read part of Field Manual: 3067 last night when I got to the brief rundown of the 1st Ghost Bear War. Specifically, the part about Zeta Galaxy and two clusters of Nova Cat troops being driven off world and never being heard from again.
Has there been any mention of them in the Jihad or Dark Age? Two clusters of clan troops with dropships and jumpships just disappearing....well, something happened to them ;)
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There's no further mention of them that I know of.
Maybe the Bears decided to hunt them down and exterminate them to the very last man. It's what the Bears do because they're jerks like that.
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Green Ghosts????
No idea, but it's more fun than, "They died in the lonely emptiness of space. Another drifting derelict lost in black water."
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There's no further mention of them that I know of.
Maybe the Bears decided to hunt them down and exterminate them to the very last man. It's what the Bears do because they're jerks like that.
I was more positive when I first found the reference. Perhaps they are still out there and could possibly come back. Wouldn't be the first or even second time it has happened in the universe.
Could even be pirates who prey on Combine worlds? That would be an interesting story.
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My guess is either dead or turned pirate, yeah.
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Hey, then we could consider this a Zombie PIRATE Catgirl Extravaganza!
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Question for my Nova Cat friends....
Re read part of Field Manual: 3067 last night when I got to the brief rundown of the 1st Ghost Bear War. Specifically, the part about Zeta Galaxy and two clusters of Nova Cat troops being driven off world and never being heard from again.
Has there been any mention of them in the Jihad or Dark Age? Two clusters of clan troops with dropships and jumpships just disappearing....well, something happened to them ;)
I personally hope we either a.) never hear of them again so that the dimly warm core of my soul has something to cling to, or b.) get to see they somehow made it back to the Homeworlds post-Reavings, get reclaimed as Clan, and form the core of a new, vengeful Clan Nova Cat that gets to burn the Combine into oblivion.
Dream big or go home, I say. :-[
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I personally hope we either a.) never hear of them again so that the dimly warm core of my soul has something to cling to, or b.) get to see they somehow made it back to the Homeworlds post-Reavings, get reclaimed as Clan, and form the core of a new, vengeful Clan Nova Cat that gets to burn the Combine into oblivion.
Dream big or go home, I say. :-[
Would you settle for them joining up with the Imperio and then helping THEM become vengeful? Because I think that's a modicum more plausible.
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I can think of many things more plausible. Not every loose end gets neatly tied off.
Simplest is a malfunction in the jump drive, nobody really knows what happens because a miss-jump has too many unknown variables. In a tight formation, it might even influence several jumpships to arrive together at the same wrong destination. If they are lucky.
More likely and more plausible, they were spirited away by any number of secret factions that never reveal all their hidden assets. Choose your flavor of the month.
Again, they might have just refused to participate one more tine in the great insanity known as the Inner Sphere. After choosing a world marked as no longer viable on the Map, they absconded to establish a more cat friendly peacetech sort of place.
Well, it could happen ...
GC
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Would you settle for them joining up with the Imperio and then helping THEM become vengeful? Because I think that's a modicum more plausible.
Hey, I'm a long-time Nova Cat fan. Plausibility has nothing to do with it.
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Hey, I'm a long-time Nova Cat fan. Plausibility has nothing to do with it.
The Cluster saw a vision of a planet made entirely of pizza, and they decided to go for it. Godspeed, Intrepid Catguys!
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Samurai Pizza Cats if you will?
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...resisting the urge to paint up Clan battlearmor like the SPC, now.
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...resisting the urge to paint up Clan battlearmor like the SPC, now.
All in favor of Istal painting up Clan BA like the SPC, Meow now.
Meow!
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Meow.
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Yeah...no.
It HAS been a while since I changed my Avatar though. I'll see what I can do.
EDIT: And there we go
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Waddles approves.
Or he's saying "doorbell".
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Meow
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Revival trials is out!
No huge surprises. Some confirmation that marksmanship is one of our things, along with adaptability.
Also a Nova Cat RAT which will nicely do as an Invasion RAT considering we got lumped in with 'Secondary Invader' for Era Report 3052.
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Revival trials is out!
No huge surprises. Some confirmation that marksmanship is one of our things, along with adaptability.
Also a Nova Cat RAT which will nicely do as an Invasion RAT considering we got lumped in with 'Secondary Invader' for Era Report 3052.
More than the Mysticism (although that's a HUGE part of it), the Marksmanship thing is what I like about the Cats.
(Still haven't purchased this, but I will, I promise!)
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I'd buy it, but the last one I got came with such a wonderful... surprise, that I never finished reading it. Call me crazy, but I'm a bit trigger shy these days.
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I'd buy it, but the last one I got came with such a wonderful... surprise, that I never finished reading it. Call me crazy, but I'm a bit trigger shy these days.
It's pre-Operation Revival. Really, you can purchase it safely knowing that the worst hasn't happened yet. O0
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We even got to fight against the Smoke Jaguars! ;D
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We even got to fight against the Smoke Jaguars! ;D
...That is tempting. Kerensky knows the Cats haven't had an honorable, vicious opponent worthy of fighting, since the Jags went down.
I realize the potential irony of that statement, but if you think about it, it's true.
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Personally I was a little disappointed with it
Lots has been covered elsewhere which is maybe the reason but I just found it a little bland I don't really know what I was expecting really I know the history
One little surprise which I think has showed exactly the trauma the Nova Cats went through. Among the Clans our Touman pre invasion was one of the most traditional on par with the Falcons although we were more adaptable.
Considering the oppertunistic Nova Cats seeing them compared with the Falcons sheds new light on pre and post invasion Cats
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I always did prefer the Crusader Cats over what they became before the end. Anyone who can take on the Jags with regularity, get compared straight up to the Falcons, execute combat insertions like no one else, gut shoot an opponent from range with ease, and rip the ComGuards up like so many couch cushions is just someone worthy of a coolness award.
Damn, what happened? Did Leroux finally lose his last marble? Was it Winter's fault? Did they pass out special grape drink at the Clan Council right before the Great Refusal?
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I suspect that the massive casualties the Cats took on Luthien and then Twycross did a lot to hurt the Cats beyond just material ans manpower. They also lost a lot of their best and brightest and their most talented and experienced warriors. Plus it would have massively undercut the Crusader cause within the Clan
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We were only Crusaders for opportunistic reasons. We wanted that fat loot. And we were hardly traditional except in military organization. Most of the our changes were us trying to adapt to massive losses but never fully recovering before getting hit with another sledgehammer.
If there was one thing I'd pinpoint as our 'WHAT were they thinking??" time, it when the Khans declared we'd fight on the IS side during the Refusal of the invasion. Even that might have been fine if they had told someone before hand and/or didn't BOTH die in it. Doing things because the voices in our head say 'go for it' might be one of our things, but that doesn't mean we need to completely cut off common sense.
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So I bit the bullet and bought Revival Trials. Yeah, I know. So much for my resolve.
Anyway, I gotta say, I enjoy getting a peek into the Clans pre-Invasion. Hopefully we'll get some Political Century books or some such thing, to give me somewhere to play around with. Speaking of which, has anyone else... um, made their own "what if" Revival bracket? I've played around a bit, and so far the most interesting outcome (based on simple dice rolls for both placement and outcome) saw the Spirits taking first, the Jaguars second, and the Burrocks third. The Mandrills(?!) came out as the official Reserve Clan as well. A part of me would love to see how that plays out, to be perfectly honest.
I did another one that had the Cats place second, alongside the Coyotes and Hellions. Da Bears ended up in the support role. For some sick and strange reason though, the idea of the Spirits and Mandrills raising holy hell in the Inner Sphere together was more compelling, despite the idea of the Cats providing the main Crusader representation in the Invasion.
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Man, the Jaguars can't conquer the Sphere on their own... the burrocks would just make friends with the spheroids, the blood spirits would just get upset and hide out in the chainelanes and the mandrills would just kick themselves out of their own invasion corridor.
I don't even know if Focht would have to break the Comguards out of storage
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I kind of shudder when I think of what could have gone down if the Star Adders had been one of the original 4. That would've been interesting. I don't think either the Lyrans or the Dracs would've stood a chance. Twycross? Wolcott? Never would have happened.
The Blood Spirits would have been fun to read about too. They would have kicked a ton of ass, but I wonder how their chain of command problems would have hurt them when they ran into wily Davions or pro-Theodore Dracs. >:D
Oh, the possibilities!! Man, I love this game!
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Man, the Jaguars can't conquer the Sphere on their own... the burrocks would just make friends with the spheroids, the blood spirits would just get upset and hide out in the chainelanes and the mandrills would just kick themselves out of their own invasion corridor.
I don't even know if Focht would have to break the Comguards out of storage
"Sir, there are invaders coming from beyond the Periphery, and they're all incompetent!"
"...you woke me up for THIS?"
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"Sir, there are invaders coming from beyond the Periphery, and they're all incompetent!"
"...you woke me up for THIS?"
"The BattleROMs are hilarious, Precentor."
"Did you bring the popcorn and Orange Crush then?"
"And the snuggly blankets sir."
"Squee! Best ComStar slumber party ever!"
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"Dibs on the Raisinettes! "
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Oh, the possibilities!! Man, I love this game!
That is the most truthful statement I've read all day
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That is the most truthful statement I've read all day
Heh! :)) :))
I just had to say it. I've read a lot of bellyaching recently so I wanted to express some positivity about our wonderful game.
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Heh! :)) :))
I just had to say it. I've read a lot of bellyaching recently so I wanted to express some positivity about our wonderful game.
Hell yeah! Big, Stompy, Robots!
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Heh! :)) :))
I just had to say it. I've read a lot of bellyaching recently so I wanted to express some positivity about our wonderful game.
By a long way my favourite part of this game not the characters, factions or even the Mechs its the possibilities that BattleTech offers.
In canon the SLDF fell in an AU its still going strong
in every single game there are planets being used that are in the universe but have been given over to the fans to make their own (there's fracking rules for system construction!! Those don't come around a lot)
You want a new WarShip - here's the rules, a nuke? Yup. You don't like the placement of that gun... you know you can change that...
So many games lock players into playing a certain way, using units that only work in a certain niche BattleTech lets me do SO MUCH MORE!! It does unfortunately add to the complexity of our fair game and universe which can have drawbacks... :-\ but I love it!!
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There should be a 'like' button here on these forums. It's people like you two guys ( jklantern & Dragon Cat )that make it easier to get through all the whining that permeates these threads.
Cheers!
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There should be a 'like' button here on these forums. It's people like you two guys ( jklantern & Dragon Cat )that make it easier to get through all the whining that permeates these threads.
Cheers!
Did I mention they killed my Clan (appropriate since we're in a Zombie thread here), turned the Falcons into raving lunatics and the Wolves into I am ilClan.... :'( ..... that's right we're ignoring the whining for a minute ;D
It's very easy to see the negatives, glance over the surface of the published material and see the bad or take something at face value and that's fine I don't actually have a problem with people who like the "vanilla" canon game - never personally felt like I could like BattleTech if I played it that way mind you - even being told when attending games that I couldn't customize my Mechs annoyed me.
But you dig deeper and this game and universe is far more than what you see or even what the sourcebooks say that is what makes BattleTech great. Almost every book has at least one small paragraph that could lead to taking the universe in a complete different direction.
While reading that paragraph you could think yeah but this event had nothing to do with the universe... or you could take it and say this changes everything!! I want an AU with this event yesterday!! Bring Hanse Davion back to life, erase Devlin Stone from the timeline... NOVA CATS??? We've got tons of damned Nova Cats they are not dead who said they were??? I declare a Trial of Refusal!! See simples O0
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Considering the time of year, I want an AU where the Nova Cats rise from their grave (literally) and seek vengeance :D (see title)
"Hey Gunso! This barrel labeled Trioxin is leaking. Is that gonna be a problem?
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Hmm ... Nova Cat onyro rising from their mass graves.
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Hmm ... Nova Cat onyro rising from their mass graves.
And then start dancing to Michael Jackson's"Thriller" before going off to hunt their Draconis Combine murderers.
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Well that goes without saying.
Come to think of it, I do believe there's some Nova Cat specific lyrics for Thriller somewhere on this board. O:-)
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If we wanted to do an Undead star, what're good fits besides a Cauldron Born?
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Cave Lions and Dire Wolves are both extinct animals, it's a start. Wendigo is a bit of stretch but possibly applicable. Then there's the Ocelot-ofloveforbrains.
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Shadow Cat's a mythological being, and there's always the Phantom and Banshee, if you want to go that route. Huntsman also has a nice dark ring to it, now that I think about it.
NOVA CATS??? We've got tons of damned Nova Cats they are not dead who said they were??? I declare a Trial of Refusal!!
I'm in.
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Shadow Cat's a mythological being, and there's always the Phantom and Banshee, if you want to go that route. Huntsman also has a nice dark ring to it, now that I think about it.
I'm in.
Also in, and the Huntsman could be argued as the Erlking/Arlking/King of the Wild Hunt/whatever the Bloody Hell that Fae entity is called. Dresden Files fans know what I'm talking about.
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Well, I was mostly riffing off the Undead Lance from MWDA, which consisted of a group of prisoners piloting a Cadaver, Exhumer, Gravedigger, and Mortis. Of course, considering the target is the DC, we might be better off taking a set of JF mechs and painting them bright yellow.
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Yes, the lord of the hunt, the goblin king. Just dont make its pilot look like David Bowie
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Durnit! Now I wish I had the skills to put the Goblin King on the sail of my unpainted Hunstman.
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Like my costume? ;D Thinking about going as a nova cat for halloween.
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Yes, the lord of the hunt, the goblin king. Just dont make its pilot look like David Bowie
But David Bowie is awesome.
(I did a half-assed Jareth costume one Halloween. At least one friend of mine is convinced I am secretly the Goblin King. This would be cool, EXCEPT I AM THE WORST DAVID BOWIE.)
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But David Bowie is awesome.
(I did a half-assed Jareth costume one Halloween. At least one friend of mine is convinced I am secretly the Goblin King. This would be cool, EXCEPT I AM THE WORST DAVID BOWIE.)
I give props to anyone willing to rock the codpiece outside of a Shakespearian play or Ren Fair.
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I give props to anyone willing to rock the codpiece outside of a Shakespearian play or Ren Fair.
I was hoping to get a codpiece for my Halloween costume, but it wasn't ready in time. :(
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I was hoping to get a codpiece for my Halloween costume, but it wasn't ready in time. :(
The codpiece or the costume? :o
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I give props to anyone willing to rock the codpiece outside of a Shakespearian play or Ren Fair.
Acting is one of my hobbies. There is very little I can't be talked into wearing, given an entertaining enough reason to do so.
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I was hoping to get a codpiece for my Halloween costume, but it wasn't ready in time. :(
How big was that codpiece?!?
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Well, I was going for generally creepy, and I figured 'Monster Huge codpiece' would have been that extra touch :)
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Well, I was going for generally creepy, and I figured 'Monster Huge codpiece' would have been that extra touch :)
I'm suddenly having flashbacks to Black Adder. ;D
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I gotta say, even with the death of the Nova Cats (which does make me sad), and even though I don't consider the Cats my primary faction (or even my primary Clan), you guys are some of my favorite guys to hang out with on the forums. O0
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The Nova Cats were an odd Clan to begin with. Combine that with 10+ years of crotch kicking, and you tend to develop a sense of humor about things.
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Crazy fans are oft the best fans
Deadly serious business fans are allways the worst.
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The Nova Cats were an odd Clan to begin with. Combine that with 10+ years of crotch kicking, and you tend to develop a sense of humor about things.
Agreed. It's a bit more Heath Ledger's Joker than Gallagher, but it's a sense of humor nonetheless.
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I now need to figure out how much free space is left on a Nova Cat after installing a giant wooden mallet.
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The smashomatic, it even does light and medium mechs. ;D O0
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The smashomatic, it even does light and medium mechs. ;D O0
Not a slicer, dicer, chopper, slopper, what in the HELL could it be?
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The Nova Cats were an odd Clan to begin with. Combine that with 10+ years of crotch kicking, and you tend to develop a sense of humor about things.
Or we just tend to hold onto the past a little more tightly than the fans of some other Clans, I think. O0
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I now need to figure out how much free space is left on a Nova Cat after installing a giant wooden mallet.
5 tons, 5 crits
Have fun!
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Fantastic. So much storage space for fruit and ponchos. There is no ritual feared more within the Clans than Trial by Prop Comedy.
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Well if a hammer has the same stats of a Mace...
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Nah, it's not as robust due to its primarily anti-food stuff nature. Most of the weight is taken up by the comically large spring-loaded boxing glove.
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Nah, it's not as robust due to its primarily anti-food stuff nature. Most of the weight is taken up by the comically large spring-loaded boxing glove.
Is this Mech piloted by Gallagher or Eddie Valiant? Either way, I'll take eight!
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Or we just tend to hold onto the past a little more tightly than the fans of some other Clans, I think. O0
Try being a Wolverine :D
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Try being a Wolverine :D
You're right there, as I've tried that a few times.
But when I turned up to gaming sessions with the few rulebooks containing pertinent Wolverine facts, I was often laughed at... so much to the point that it usually become too frustrating for me to even contemplate gaming with these kinds of folk. :-\
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It's simple: you bring your Wolverine (or in these cases Nova Cat) force to the board, whip out the banner, raise it high, and dare all challengers to best you. If you lose... meh you held on to your Clans honour to the very last. And if you won theirs a generous amount of waving it in their face for years to come (or the inevitable rematch).
Just because I despise the WoB as a faction I don't ridicule their players: their faction yes, players not a chance.
What the Nova Cats, the Wolverines, and all the other factions that have died off have, is loyal followers who embrace them beyond that death. And loyal members who can't wait until they come back... stupid Fidelis... couldn't be Wolverines... *grumble grumble* ;)
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Kinda curious if anyone's picked up the new 2765 Periphery book.
Considering our founders origins, I want to see if he got any sort of mention at all.
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I haven't had a chance to dig into it yet, but a CTRL-F for "Drummond" doesn't turn up anything.
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There is no reason he should have been mentioned. Per Invading Clans, he was a Major in the 832nd Amaris Dragoons at the time of the Amaris Coup.
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...Yes, and? ::) He's an important bit of Nova Cat history, and this is a Nova Cat thread. Is it REALLY that surprising that some of might hope he gets some sort of mention in the FM that details his nation of birth? Previous FM's have mentioned noteworthy officers and their actions before. I was hoping he might have gotten a line or so, although I wasn't really expecting it, either.
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So, again, we're approaching our one-month-with-no-posts anniversary, and I'm officially breaking the trend. Yay...
Anyway, with the new Widowmaker thingy coming out, do you expect any Nova Cat tidbits to show up? Okay, it's a stretch, but you try coming up with a topic involving the Nova Cats on the fly. :P
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I kinda doubt it; I think HB:HK is a better bet. I'm hoping it has a least a small section on Nova Cat culture and their integration into the Combine (or failure to do so, as the case may be).
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We might a couple mentions in the Widowmakers book, but I suspect it'll be limited to how we voted on the absorption. I'll be surprised if it's more then a paragraph or so.
Been rereading a few things (Operation Klondike) and I'm wondering if we'll ever get a product involving Clan Mongoose's 'absorption'. Kinda wondering if the friendly rivalry between Clan Mongoose and Clan Nova Cat lasted beyond Klondike, and if so for how long.
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ED: Golden Century had a narrative of the Mongoose absorption. I think the only mention of the Nova Cats was about them "crowing" over the development of the Clan-spec ER large laser.
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I've actually been thinking on the character development for my Nova Cats...I've got a pair of sibmates I'm looking to flesh out, along with a Supernova's worth of troops who got themselves stuck with our honky Merc unit. But details and idiosyncrasies of the Clan seem to elude me. I know about vineers and visions and, uhh the use of 'catnip' if you catch my drift. And I know we're a Warden Clan...but that's about it. Really the only Clans I've got a good feel for are the ones in the novels that I've read...the Wolves, Bears and Falcons...I read Path of Honor, but for some reason didn't glean much besides a review of the basics. :/
And the knowledge that Santin West is very short for an Elemental...and that the new Star League uniforms sound completely ridiculous.
Any input or suggestions on which books to read through would be a huge help.
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First off, I must defend the Cat's honor in that only those trippy, Indiana Jones-type Goliath Scorpions actual use any mind altering substances while seeking visions. Nova Cat vision quests often involve more of a deprivation and meditation (plus zoning out while looking into a fire) style. The catnip jokes are there because catnip jokes are fun and necessary.
Invading Clans and Field Manual: ComStar are both good sources for Nova Cat info for both pre and post Adjurement. I think both are available as PDFs . ER 3052 and 3062 also give some nice summaries.
Pre everything going very badly, the Cats were basically second best in a several categories: marksmanship, naval prowess (in both size and capability), powerful merchant caste to name some. In fact there were comparatively liberal toward lower castes as a whole. It was almost a "as long as you can justify how it's for the betterment of the Clan (and the warriors) bully for you" attitude. Mind you that didn't prevent Khan West from aggressively demoting the initial head of the Thunderbird development. They are still Clan after all. Lower castes were even permitted to participate in aspects of Nova Cat mysticism/The Way in time.
On the battlefield Cats were known for their adaptability, though some units had preferences toward certain unit types and tactics as with most Clans. The stereotypical love of energy weapons is actually an example of this. One of the big lessons of Tukayyid - besides hot-drops are awesome till they're not - is the issues of ammo-dependent weapons during prolonged engagements.
Just a few quick thoughts during lunch. I'm sure other folks will have plenty more to add. ;)
And the knowledge that Santin West is very short for an Elemental...
Nope, his trademark cigar is just that big.
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Keeping in mind that some of what follows is my interpretation of 15+ years of stuff percolating in my head...
Dreams mean things. Your instinct is important. Follow your gut and hunches, it's your mind finding patterns. It wont always work, but that just means you weren't properly paying attention to things.
When in doubt, use an ERLL. We invented the things after all. If you can tie it to a mobile platform and play range tricks, that's even better. When choosing a ride, pick one that's adaptable to a fluid situation, or that tends to focus on long range combat.
"If it works, use it." We're pretty adaptable, and have a tendency to use stuff that works, no matter the origin. We've even used Smoke Jaguar tactics against the Smoke Jaguars. Which is probably hilarious for any Nova Cat watching the fight.
Study your opponent as much as possible. Patience is not a four letter word. Know your battlefield as much as possible before engaging.
HATE the Smoke Jaguars. Hate them as only a Clan Player can hate someone. Feuds are marvelous things.
We are an economic Clan. People tend to forget that as the Diamond Sharks/Sea Fox embraced it, but it's how we got powerful. Trust the Merchants to do their job. The other castes may need a bit more guidance.
Aerospace rocks. Don't bid away your fighters unless you have to. Don't be afraid to use your dropships for fire support, either. If you lose it, that'll suck, but not as badly as losing the battle.
Age brings wisdom, something the other Clans have forgotten. Then again, age also brings senility and slower reflexes, so don't let up on the old fogeys either. You cant advance unless you clear out the chaff.
If you have to go down, make sure they feel it. Your totem animal is a venomous cross between a porcupine and cat. If anything does eat you, you want to stick in their throat, poison their bloodstream, and claw claw claw all the way down.
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Keeping in mind that some of what follows is my interpretation of 15+ years of stuff percolating in my head...
Dreams mean things. Your instinct is important. Follow your gut and hunches, it's your mind finding patterns. It wont always work, but that just means you weren't properly paying attention to things.
When in doubt, use an ERLL. We invented the things after all. If you can tie it to a mobile platform and play range tricks, that's even better. When choosing a ride, pick one that's adaptable to a fluid situation, or that tends to focus on long range combat.
"If it works, use it." We're pretty adaptable, and have a tendency to use stuff that works, no matter the origin. We've even used Smoke Jaguar tactics against the Smoke Jaguars. Which is probably hilarious for any Nova Cat watching the fight.
Study your opponent as much as possible. Patience is not a four letter word. Know your battlefield as much as possible before engaging.
HATE the Smoke Jaguars. Hate them as only a Clan Player can hate someone. Feuds are marvelous things.
We are an economic Clan. People tend to forget that as the Diamond Sharks/Sea Fox embraced it, but it's how we got powerful. Trust the Merchants to do their job. The other castes may need a bit more guidance.
Aerospace rocks. Don't bid away your fighters unless you have to. Don't be afraid to use your dropships for fire support, either. If you lose it, that'll suck, but not as badly as losing the battle.
Age brings wisdom, something the other Clans have forgotten. Then again, age also brings senility and slower reflexes, so don't let up on the old fogeys either. You cant advance unless you clear out the chaff.
If you have to go down, make sure they feel it. Your totem animal is a venomous cross between a porcupine and cat. If anything does eat you, you want to stick in their throat, poison their bloodstream, and claw claw claw all the way down.
Yeah, one of the two sees visions in her dreams, seeing as she's...in a very interesting spot, without easy access to all her Clan has to offer.
That whole bit about the Jags...I forgot how much we hate them, haw haw!! Might have to work that into her character in the form of colorful insults at the Jags' expense.
And...um...ERLL? *is a bit of a n00b*
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Oddly Timed Tangent:
One of my favorite things in Operation Klondike is the entire Circe operation. Because, on one hand, you've got the Ravens and the Wolverines HATING each other, pretty much to the point that they are sabotaging each other's efforts. This is arguably the most vitriolic Clan Relationship during Klondike.
On the other hand, you've got the Cats and the Mongooses watching this happen.
"So, uh, those Ravens and Wolverines are beating the crap outta each other."
"Yeah. They really are."
"Um...do you want to do that?"
"Not really. Seems counterproductive."
"Okay."
"Race you to the next town?"
"You're on!"
This friendly-ish competition between the Nova Cats and Mongooses for the purposes of a greater goal is, to me, what iner-clan rivalry would be in an ideal world. And it makes me wonder if one of the reasons the Jaguars took out the Mongooses was SIMPLY to spite the Cats. (Keeping in mind I haven't READ Golden Century).
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ERLL = ER large laser
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This friendly-ish competition between the Nova Cats and Mongooses for the purposes of a greater goal is, to me, what iner-clan rivalry would be in an ideal world. And it makes me wonder if one of the reasons the Jaguars took out the Mongooses was SIMPLY to spite the Cats. (Keeping in mind I haven't READ Golden Century).
As Weasley said, we didn't get much foot space in Golden Century. A sentence scattered here and there. Mongoose's entry did mention us, but that was mostly a rehash of how we cooperated during Revival.
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I personally found it entertaining that the Mongooses and Cats were on the short list of Clans to troubleshoot at the end of Klondike for the Founder, right behind the Wolves. Gives me a warm fuzzy that I haven't had in a while.
Ah, for the good old days when Clan deaths were rare and shocking things.
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So there's this ...
http://bg.battletech.com/news/battleblog/handbook-house-kurita-developers-blog-3/
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So there's this ...
http://bg.battletech.com/news/battleblog/handbook-house-kurita-developers-blog-3/
After reading that I'm amazed any of the 'Cats stayed in the Draconis Combine after the formation of the Republic. I'm even more surprised more didn't follow the Spirit Cats.
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After reading that I'm amazed any of the 'Cats stayed in the Draconis Combine after the formation of the Republic. I'm even more surprised more didn't follow the Spirit Cats.
Ditto
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i think that Minobu Tetsuhara would have understood. he'd have been familiar with the idea of Honor, and examples like The tale of the Loyal Samurai
There was a loyal samurai whose lord was cruel and mistreated him. Another lord was impressed by the Samurai's loyalty and offered him a position in his house, bu the Samurai refused. "if i go with you" the samurai said "who will take care of my masters? who would protect him and tend to his house" and so the loyal samurai returned to the lord who mistreated him.
the moral of the tale is that loyalty is the core of Bushido.. regardless of conditions. and that it is easy to serve a good master, but the true test of loyalty is in serving a bad one. even if it means your own discomfort.
the Nova Cats, for good or ill, made promises to the Combine after Op Bulldog. and until near the very end they stuck to those promises. when the Republic formed up, their relationship with the Combine had not gotten to the point where they needed to start questioning those promises. and it is worth noting that the republic cat's still saw themselves as part of the Nova Cat's.. its was the Combine Nova Cat's that ultimately decided otherwise. (and a good argument could be made that the Republic Cat's had remained truer to the honor and spirit of Clan Nova Cat than the combine branch did..)
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After reading that, I feel like I need to go stare at a wall for a while. Just...damn. Wow. Ben Rome painted a beautiful (if bleak) picture right there.
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After reading that, I feel like I need to go stare at a wall for a while. Just...damn. Wow. Ben Rome painted a beautiful (if bleak) picture right there.
Ben Rome & the Clans = Perfection/Death (whichever way you look at it)
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After reading that, I feel like I need to go stare at a wall for a while. Just...damn. Wow. Ben Rome painted a beautiful (if bleak) picture right there.
beautiful little passage. I remember reading it the first time. I hope it helps explain some of the more difficult parts of recent books relating to the Nova Cats. The poor guys never had a chance in the face of a 600 year old culture.
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*thinks happy thoughts*
Kittens romping in snow, Bears on fire, Luthien a smoking hunk of char...
Memories...all alone in the moonlight.
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beautiful little passage. I remember reading it the first time. I hope it helps explain some of the more difficult parts of recent books relating to the Nova Cats. The poor guys never had a chance in the face of a 600 year old culture.
A culture that also ruthlessly undermines cultures outside of their accepted paradigm. Xenophobia was a major theme of the Draconis Combine in the original housebook. Non-Japanese cultures were at best tolerated. The Rasalhague population even after independence continue to speak a language that is forever altered by the Combine's relentless attempts to assimilate them. It is "good" to see the old hostilities within the Combine have not been forgotten. The era of good feelings left over from the Clan Invasion could be seen as a turnaround in the Combine's attitudes.
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After reading that I'm amazed any of the 'Cats stayed in the Draconis Combine after the formation of the Republic. I'm even more surprised more didn't follow the Spirit Cats.
Keep in mind, that vignette is from 10 years after their initial 'absorption.' By the time we get to the Dark Age proper, it's been 60 years(?) and several generations. Stockholm Syndrome sets in, or one of long-term generational despair. It's a problem that's very acute on some reservations in the U.S. today.
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The Draconis Combine also made a stink about the number of Nova Cats that wanted to join the Republic.
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The Draconis Combine also made a stink about the number of Nova Cats that wanted to join the Republic.
Yeah, just a tad. That whole, "We'll join the coalition but only if you send half the Cats back to Irece," bit the Combine did with Stone. And they weren't just talking about the touman. Remember there were reports in late 3071 and early 3072 that they were packing up civilians and mobile manufacturing facilities essentially prepping for another exodus.
*thinks happy thoughts*
Kittens romping in snow, Bears on fire, Luthien a smoking hunk of char...
Memories...all alone in the moonlight.
Crud, Ben broke Istal.
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Yeah, just a tad. That whole, "We'll join the coalition but only if you send half the Cats back to Irece," bit the Combine did with Stone. And they weren't just talking about the touman. Remember there were reports in late 3071 and early 3072 that they were packing up civilians and mobile manufacturing facilities essentially prepping for another exodus.
It would have been so much more "Nova Cat" if they had gone all out ignored the Combine and settled fully in the Republic maybe in the Prefectures that faced the Combine.
The DA comes and the Nova Cats/Combine have a big ass brawl - probably have still killed us but would have stopped splitting the Clan - silly WizKids Story
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It would have been so much more "Nova Cat" if they had gone all out ignored the Combine and settled fully in the Republic maybe in the Prefectures that faced the Combine.
They didn't have a choice. If the Combine was making a fuss they could have elevated to full scale hostilities. From the perspective of the Combine the Nova Cats had promised to hold the border against the Bears. If they reneged on that deal it would be open season on all things Nova and Catlike. And, let's not forget that thanks to their own bungling the Nova Cats had been pushed to the brink by the Ghost Bears in the Second Combine Dominion War. The number of times the Combine has had to come to the Nova Cats' aid...
The DA comes and the Nova Cats/Combine have a big ass brawl - probably have still killed us but would have stopped splitting the Clan - silly WizKids Story
So it is better to have died as one clan than to have split and survived? The Spirit Cats are making it work. That is a fairly good alternative to extermination.
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Also the Cats declared a Trial of Refusal in 3073 against Stone to prevent sending half their people back to Irece and lost.
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*thinks happy thoughts*
Kittens romping in snow, Bears on fire, Luthien a smoking hunk of char...
Memories...all alone in the moonlight.
Tears in the rain, Istal. Tears in the rain.
So there's this ...
http://bg.battletech.com/news/battleblog/handbook-house-kurita-developers-blog-3/
It kind of takes the concept of "kicking them when they're down" to a new philosophical perspective. Can you kick them when they're down, if they're already dead? Even if they aren't dead yet but have already died? If dying in the future is a prerequisite to a cessation of pain, does pain retroactively applied to the past violate the finality of the death as it was previously/will be later endured? Does the natural flow of time to the human perspective become rendered moot within the literary context, and thusly nullify the pain of the already witnessed death by replacing it with the pain that has there to for not yet but is currently being felt?
I... I've got to go. My nose and ears are bleeding.
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The Draconis Combine is a bad place for sure. However, after having dwelt on Mr. Rome's piece for a day i'm becoming less and less sympathetic towards the plight of the Nova Cats. Bear in mind, this is directed toward the Warrior caste. The civies as always are along for the ride. The Nova Cats as history would prove were terrible guests in someone else's house. Autonomy or not, the majority population of the Irece Prefecture was Combine. If the Cats had taken the those planets by force the cultural associations of population wouldn't matter because they would be Isorla. As it so happens the warriors negotiated a deal in which they couldn't demolish the native Combine culture as the other clans have done. They had to continue good relations with the Draconis Combine.
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We forget that the game is about nobles. For the first decade or two it was a good deal for the Nova Cat warriors. Plenty of resources. No one is going to hit your homeland cause it means hitting a Great House. Autonomy to go and play white hat in the Star League or later with Stone.
Ironically the best result may have been for the Warriors to let the civilians wither on the vine. Survive as the museum piece noble savages on the reservations using Combine equipment.
If the Cats had taken the those planets by force the cultural associations of population wouldn't matter because they would be Isorla. As it so happens the warriors negotiated a deal in which they couldn't demolish the native Combine culture as the other clans have done. They had to continue good relations with the Draconis Combine.
Population is always going to get you in the end. There aren't enough Clan civilians in any OZ. The Bears aren't Clan any more beyond the nobles while the rest of the Clans live on reservations with the Falcons and Wolves hoping like heck education and repression kick in eventually.
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Population is always going to get you in the end. There aren't enough Clan civilians in any OZ. The Bears aren't Clan any more beyond the nobles while the rest of the Clans live on reservations with the Falcons and Wolves hoping like heck education and repression kick in eventually.
The Falcons have resorted to violence more than once. It may not be the most effective tool, but it is one they have to use and the Nova Cats do not. The Exiles stayed in their own enclaves. I believe that was largely their own choice, though.
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Merry Christmas, fellow Nova Cats!
I hope Santa brought plenty of anger and revenge on our enemies, next year! And catgirls. Cant forget the catgirls.
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Merry Christmas, fellow Nova Cats!
I hope Santa brought plenty of anger and revenge on our enemies, next year! And catgirls. Cant forget the catgirls.
Never forget those girls
Hope you and the other Cats had a good one Istal
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Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night of simmering anger!
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Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night of simmering anger!
That's a good greeting for anyone, really.
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To begin a new year with a new look for my Nova Cats, I've added a few new figures that might fit in with the post-jihad era. So, two new mechs acquired this holiday were a Kodiak and a Nova Cat, filling out a heavy Star with a Linebacker, Sunder and a Flashman. So, it's a little more than just heavy, and battle value is out the window, mostly because it's just window dressing for the Spirit Cats in the Republic.
Yep, there are full trinaries of big heavy mechs standing around waiting for the little guys to call for help after being bid away by an overachieving Star Commander. "What? You Captured another one?"
The light star has four Koshis and a Hankyu, and it does have the full aura of Invincible, Invulnerable, Immortal, and Incredible.
It'll be interesting to see what else survives from the Invasion Era to the New Century.
GC
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Shoot all the things!
And then we can have pizza and marguerite shooters.
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So, now comes a question. Let's call it a Provisional Cluster, the remains of several Galaxies reformed under a single command. Many Nova Cat and Spirit Cat units using (by now) mostly captured and salvaged Inner Sphere equipment of all types.
With the Clan fondness of counting things in groups of five, the average Cluster can have up to five Trinaries of mechs, with a possible number of random support groups that perhaps replace some of the mech formations.
1.. Should there be Foot infantry in addition to Battle Armor?
2.. Ten tanks make a Star, how many of those should be incorporated in Nova Binaries?
3.. Four Trinaries of mechs with a separate Keshik that can add more to the pile?
GC
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Well the average Cluster has 3 Trinaries, the biggest and best have 5...
In the DA era you'd be looking at near full combined arms down to star level
I'd say for a trinary maybe
2 Mechs, 4 vehicles and a BA point
3 Mechs, 2 BA points
1 Mech, 4 vehicles and 2 BA points
You could use non armoured infantry but only if you were really scraping the barrel they are still Clanners
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Three trinaries seems small for 'average'. I think most units would aim for 5 units still, but replace trinaries with binaries.
In any case, going back to the original idea for cluster make up might not be a bad idea for something like this. That, and if the earlier DA stuff was any indication, mixed units due to the ad hoc nature of things. I'd continue to use 2-vehicle points for vehicles. A lot of them work best in pairs.
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At first, my interest was in establishing how many units of Clan origin had remained after being Abjured and rebuilding on Irece, then fighting heroically for the Combine in the Jihad, and so on.
What became clear is that after so much destruction, most of the remaining forces would be filled with old Star League designs, and late model Inner Sphere designs taken as Isorla.
As this is a "Provisional" Cluster of Clan Nova Cat, it may seem "over strength" but it is one being formed in the Clan Protectorate and might be forced to admit that this is all that's left of them. Sure there might be a large part that can claim to be Spirit Cats, and perhaps only a dozen or so mechs remain from the original Clan Invasion era.
Dragon Cat's example might be loosely described as a Binary Nova and adding a second AFV/CBA Nova would still be within the limits of a Trinary Supernova. Yeah, putting all your baskets in one egg is what we do best. Of course that does mean that half the tanks are tasked with transporting Foot Infantry Platoons or Points of Battle Armor, but a Maxim still packs respectable firepower even at that level. My goal was to have four Stars of armored infantry and this gets me half way there with a lot more tanks than I expected.
So, still begging the question, how big can a Cluster be without converting into a Galaxy and having several clusters and a separate keshik within it?
GC
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I think the biggest I saw was an Adder unit 5 or 6 Supernova Trinaries
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Well, it seems like I was trying to stuff all my baskets into one Easter Egg. Part of the problem was trying to include as many mechs as possible that never get used in any other factioned battle group I've used. After a more thorough inventory search on my collection, it seems that I've acquired over fifty mechs that are both unique in number and nature.
Mostly these are Star League and Jihad era (one Nexus, one Hellhound, one Imp, etc.) units that proved to be little more than trophy mechs decorating cargo bays and parade grounds.
So four trinaries might not seem so much if each one had only ten mechs. Adding a Star of AFVs and a Star of CBAs in a Nova to the ten mechs makes a nice strike team. One more binary of mechs can be added as a Command Star and Assault Fire Support Star. An Aerospace Fighter Star might be enough to any need for Air support. Drop Ships will be added as needed, two modified Overlord class ships might be enough to fit two battle groups each and a Union "C" for the extra Binary Strike team.
It's still a Work In Progress, but the numbers and strength seem more reasonable with auxiliary units forming a second cluster as a new Galaxy begins to grow. This does seem to be what the Nova Cats do best. Periodically reinventing themselves with stuff nobody else wants or needs and proving they can still do amazing things with it.
GC
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Chipping in with a quick question for you hardcore Nova Cat types.
The Sarna wiki page for Zeta Galaxy says this
In 3062, The 1st Dragoncat Cluster was decimated in action against the 11th Alshain Avengers on Yamarovka while trying to prevent the Combine-Ghost Bear War. The last of Zeta's units -- nearly two clusters -- lifted off-planet and were never heard from again. By 3067, the Galaxy had been removed from the Nova Cats' TO&E.
I have not gone and read the source material yet but I also suspect that there is a lot more information to be had, so I am wondering what books to get out.
First do we know what two units it was who vanished off into the great blue yonder?
Second the Shoden page in TRO 3067 talks about a reformed Zeta being a little unhappy about the Shoden. Are there any other / later sources to support the units reformation?
Cheers.
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The novel Path of Glory deals with Zeta Galaxy's formation they were mostly survivors from the Homeworlds Galaxies
No clue where they ended up
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The novel Path of Glory deals with Zeta Galaxy's formation they were mostly survivors from the Homeworlds Galaxies
No clue where they ended up
Exactly my issue, I want to know :-p
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Exactly my issue, I want to know :-p
My guess would be WoB in Blake Documents they stated there was former Clansmen mainly Abjured Nova Cats and survivor Jags in their number
I'd bet that the Blakists would draw them in with the promise of reaching and defending Terra or getting revenge on the Succession States and Clans under the auspice of the new Star League once the Blake army had been revealed
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The Line Developers intentionally leave certain matters unresolved in order to provide GMs with potential campaign material.
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And it helps to keep the ground fertile for stories that feel new, and are not complete "by the book" regurgitation of existing canon. At least a little new ground should be broken in some small way with every story. Those are the ones we as fans tend to like best. Line developer has final say, no doubt, and it would have to fit. But authors are notoriously bad artists if restricted like crazy.
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The novel Path of Glory deals with Zeta Galaxy's formation they were mostly survivors from the Homeworlds Galaxies
No clue where they ended up
Come now, we all know that they followed their visions to find a new home for the true Nova Cats. Free from the impotent rage of the Bears, removed from the den of the snakes, and divorced from the walking corpse of their fallen brethren. They have been patiently rebuilding in the void, awaiting the flame's portent that signals the purification of all that they left behind. In the passing of that holy fire shall the true Nova Cat clan ascend to their rightful place as guardians of the sacred jewel of Terra. Their wisdom will be the light of humanity, their strength its sword, and their OmniMechs its shield. Seyla.
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New "Nova Cat" unit in XTRO Republic I the Strix Stealth VTOL built on Shitara
Overall I like it, reminds me of the Orca from Command and Conqueror.
My problem is the location where its built a former Combine world which apparently was a centre for the Nova Cats within the Republic which is great... until you notice Shitara ends up back in the Combine after the fall of the Republic :'(
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What worlds did the Nova Cats hold in 3065-3067 or so? Was it everything in the Irece prefecture? Anything outside of it?
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What worlds did the Nova Cats hold in 3065-3067 or so? Was it everything in the Irece prefecture? Anything outside of it?
Nope, just all of the prefecture, except for Itabiana, which goes to the Sharks at some point in the timeframe. IIRC, of course.
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Nope, just all of the prefecture, except for Itabiana, which goes to the Sharks at some point in the timeframe. IIRC, of course.
Yes and other than our secret Homeworlds which we have built our legions on and will return to strike fear to our enemies... Zeta Galaxy did not go AWOL it returned to us... :-\ I'm not dreaming honest... :'(
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Yes and other than our secret Homeworlds which we have built our legions on and will return to strike fear to our enemies... Zeta Galaxy did not go AWOL it returned to us... :-\ I'm not dreaming honest... :'(
If the writers don't disprove it, it can totally be legit.
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If the writers don't disprove it, it can totally be legit.
Hey now, let's not go invoking "writers" or "line directors" or "timeline influencers" around here. We've had enough trouble with that sort of thing, thank you very much. #P
That said, I agree with you completely.
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Hey now, let's not go invoking "writers" or "line directors" or "timeline influencers" around here. We've had enough trouble with that sort of thing, thank you very much. #P
Then I should stop my plans for tonight of saying "timeline influencer" in front of a mirror three times?
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Then I should stop my plans for tonight of saying "timeline influencer" in front of a mirror three times?
Just remember to click your heels three times at the same time
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Just remember to click your heels three times at the same time
"There is no Place like Home. There is no Place like Home. There is no Place like Home."
GC
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Well Barcella's not much like how the Nova Cats left it so you're quite right.
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Well Barcella's not much like how the Nova Cats left it so you're quite right.
The new owners failed to look after it ;)
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So HBHK is out. Just thought that... well, that's something to talk about. I guess.
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I have to buy it first, but that'll take a bit.
I suspect it's just gonna end up making me depressed
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I have to buy it first, but that'll take a bit.
I suspect it's just gonna end up making me depressed
Yeah, ditto. I'm thinking of skipping it altogether. Why rub more salt into an old wound, after all?
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The new owners failed to look after it ;)
Whuff? I was under the impression that Barcella is doing quite fine right now, TYVM.....although for some reason, the Coyotes currently think that Hellbringers are better than Novacats. ><
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Why rub more salt into an old wound, after all?
Because it happened.
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Because it happened.
How lovely.
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Whuff? I was under the impression that Barcella is doing quite fine right now, TYVM.....although for some reason, the Coyotes currently think that Hellbringers are better than Novacats. ><
More to their shame giving up on Protos using hellbringers (at all) terrible ;D that said the Coyotes must be doing something right they betray the Clans but get to stay after casting out the bad pups why oh why couldn't we have done that...
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I won't say its not depressing, but as it is pre 3067 it still has hope.
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More to their shame giving up on Protos using hellbringers (at all) terrible ;D that said the Coyotes must be doing something right they betray the Clans but get to stay after casting out the bad pups why oh why couldn't we have done that...
Because the Wolf Clan had already done that very publicly with the Wolf's Dragoons and Wolf in Exile. I'd rather the Nova Cats be known as Stray Cats than Copy Cats. And even with what remains in the Protectorate, you know that no matter how many times tey get kicked to pieces, they don't go down without a fight.
GC
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I won't say its not depressing, but as it is pre 3067 it still has hope.
HOPE LIVES!! O0 until the next nuke
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When you wish upon a star...
I just realized how appropriate that song is.
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It helps you to understand the Nova Cat enthusiasm for migrating to the Republic. Adorable, considering the Combine-Republic Nova Cat schism. Ah, diaspora cultural ownership contests. We're such a petty species.
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Lookie what I spotted in coming publications...
Technical Readout: Golden Century (E-Publication)
Maybe we'll FINALLY get stats on several long awaited units?
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Lookie what I spotted in coming publications...
Technical Readout: Golden Century (E-Publication)
Maybe we'll FINALLY get stats on several long awaited units?
Let's hope so looking forward to early Clanner units
Hopefully lift the lid on each clans first Mechs and in some cases first WarShips unfortunately I believe our first was a Carrack so there no traction there for the Clan but Mechs I'm sure we'll get a couple
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Let's hope so looking forward to early Clanner units
Hopefully lift the lid on each clans first Mechs and in some cases first WarShips unfortunately I believe our first was a Carrack so there no traction there for the Clan but Mechs I'm sure we'll get a couple
CLEARLY, there is one Clan that needs more units. One that hasn't gotten any love in any TRO ever. They have been marginalized since their inception, despite being an invading Clan.
And that would be the Steel Vipers. ;)
(Seriously though, I am pro-more Cat units, and am looking forward to this one. And hey, I like the Carrack. Sharkfox/Cat team efforts are awesome.)
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Anyone still have that list of 'First Produced' units? I remember the Cats have an unstatted out Mech and Fighter.
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The Vision Quest and Qasar you mean?
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The Vision Quest and Qasar you mean?
Among others. I wasn't talking about JUST the Nova Cat ones. :)
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But those are the important ones. ;D
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Well, interestingly the Qasar is an OmniFighter and apparently the third in service. Naming conventions are great O0
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But those are the important ones. ;D
Among others. I wasn't talking about JUST the Nova Cat ones. :)
Seconded on both
Well, interestingly the Qasar is an OmniFighter and apparently the third in service. Naming conventions are great O0
Interesting indeed
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But those are the important ones. ;D
Important because they are Nova Cat designs or because you are writing them?
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Sadly, I can't claim any writing credit on this one.
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Sadly, I can't claim any writing credit on this one.
Sure you can! It would be vicious lies, but you can claim anything you like! This is the INTERNET! I am actually a collection of no fewer than six cats and a potato!
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Sure you can! It would be vicious lies, but you can claim anything you like! This is the INTERNET! I am actually a collection of no fewer than six cats and a potato!
Its true!! I'v seen it!!
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Mmm. Catgirls bearing potatoes....
Where was I? Kinda lost focus there for a second.
Anyways, I see we have a TRO3150 coming out too. Maybe we'll get some info on remaining Nova Cat Republic enclaves and/or he Protectorate?
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I didn't realize your love of starchy root vegetables.
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I didn't realize your love of starchy root vegetables.
Potatoes are pretty awesome, but we haven't ruled out him being Rincewind the Wizzard yet.
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Potatoes are awesome! Best starchy vegetable! Boil em, bake em, mash em...yummy.
Potatoes and catgirls. Two great tastes that taste great together!
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So what you're saying is that you're hoping to see a prototype of Catgirl au gratin battle armor?
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You will discover my Catgirls are delicious 'al fresco' and my potatoes are best french fried.
GC
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The first test of catgirl potato armor proved disastrous. It was later discovered that the armor was mashed potatoes pressed into shape over the catgirl. The designer was praised for his innovation in using lesser used materials, and then shot for a really stupid idea. He was then fed to the catgirls because why waste the protein?
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Served with a side of twice-baked potato armor with roasted garlic because why waste good potatoes, quiaff?
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Served with a side of twice-baked potato armor with roasted garlic because why waste good potatoes, quiaff?
How do they feel about Loaded Baked Potato Pizza? Because that is a thing I end up making not infrequently in real life.
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Here's a tidbit (as opposed to a Tim Bit) from Ben Rome's twitter this morning.
Ben H. Rome @bhrome 2m2 minutes ago
Panic set in when the 'Mech was identified as belonging to Mystic Kisho Nova Cat, who had vanished #TRO3150 #battletech
Oh, and here's one from yesterday....
Ben H. Rome @bhrome 21h21 hours ago
The Irece Alpha factory pumped out Cave Lions as fast as possible and the new 'Mechs spread throughout the touman. #TRO3150 #battletech
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Here's a tidbit (as opposed to a Tim Bit) from Ben Rome's twitter this morning.
...Why does that fill me with dread? Of course, multiple things fill me with dread, these days.
The bit with the Cave Lion, I think we already knew from ER:DA
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At the very least we know that Kisho and his merry gang didn't completely vanish into the cosmos. They many not be alive, but they're at least accounted for.
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I'm hoping to see how far the Cave Lion spread. I'd like to have them available to the RAF and/or Clan Protectorate.
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Oooohhh. Fresh, hot mug o' teaser to start off the day.
Nebula remains on Almunge, where the ISF continues to pull it apart for clues to Kisho's fate.#TRO3150 #battletech
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I'm hoping to see how far the Cave Lion spread. I'd like to have them available to the RAF and/or Clan Protectorate.
Don't hold out to much hope according to the latest update it is disappearing from the battlefield which sucks.
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Admittedly, it's kind of selfish of me, but I'd rather it disappear. It's a Nova Cat mech, meant for Nova Cat forces, and is essentially a Nova Cat totem mech. I don't want it in anyone elses hands, and prefer for it to go bye bye.
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Can we do the same thing with the Clan ER large laser?
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Admittedly, it's kind of selfish of me, but I'd rather it disappear. It's a Nova Cat mech, meant for Nova Cat forces, and is essentially a Nova Cat totem mech. I don't want it in anyone elses hands, and prefer for it to go bye bye.
Spirit Cats are Nova Cats. You can't tell them they are not!
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Spirit Cats are Nova Cats. You can't tell them they are not!
They are more the Nova Cats in Spirit than actual Nova Cats, at this point.
Eh? Eh?...
I'll see myself out :-X
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I imagine there's a rather lot of spirit Nova Cats at the moment. Mostly of the onryō varienty. :-\
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The best part about not being part of the Disenfranchised Costumed Mendicant Samurai, is that the Nova Cats can once more reinvent themselves in a manner more to their liking.
While the writers seem to be trending toward having the Cats resemble Native American Indians, I can still hope that references to 'Ghost Shirt" and 'Ghost Dance' can be avoided.
'Mystic Warriors of the Cats' is a great theme to keep handy and it works on many levels.
GC
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While the writers seem to be trending toward having the Cats resemble Native American Indians, I can still hope that references to 'Ghost Shirt" and 'Ghost Dance' can be avoided.
There's a fine line with the Nova Cats. On one hand their mysticism is what defines them. On the other, when has that mysticism actually worked out for them? The Spirit Cats are a study in fanaticism that has, for now, rewarded their zealotry. But, I wouldn't count on old NA tropes like those making it to paper.
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Speaking of Spirit-y Nova Cats ....
en H. Rome @bhrome 10m10 minutes ago
As part of Star Colonel Rikkard’s task force when it invaded Marik in 3136, Bavros and his Lamprey were called into the fighting
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...I have Bavros' figure. :D
Looks like a few more DA pilots are getting a mention.
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Same here, though I don't think I ever used him. Played the crap out of the MHI Crane-The Scorchers drop though. >:D
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But, I wouldn't count on old NA tropes like those making it to paper.
Not while I'm around, certainly.
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Not while I'm around, certainly.
I wanted to avoid saying that on your behalf.
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I thought they were better then the Nova Cat's old 'Furries in Black Leather' ceremonial garb. :D
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I wanted to avoid saying that on your behalf.
Ditto
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Spirit cats are so sick.
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I know we are going on about the Spirit Cats, but there's something I want to share. And what I want to share, is Santin West.
I'm actually somewhat sad there does not seem to be that much about this Khan. Which is odd, because given his appearance, he looks like he should be one of the most badass characters in Nova Cat history. Indeed, he did some awesome things-and was a Khan-But the amount of stuff he stars in is disappointingly sparse.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Santin_West (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Santin_West)
Also, look at how gorram awesome that mustache is.
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I always loved the cigar, personally.
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Yeah, that just makes him even more awesome.
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Having finally gotten around to Republic XTROs, it looks like I made a good choice in making the RotS my 'official' IS faction back in the day. :D
Would like to see how the Nova Cat enclaves do post Fortress, though.
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The Dark Age fiction has insinuated that there are enclaves scattered throughout the Republic but Shitara is the only one specifically mentioned. It's noted to be a major one to boot. Thanks to Rep II we at least "know" how well Shitara and it's enclave is doing at least up to the moment the Combine sets its sights on it. The Dragon might not play well with a population of "traitors".
Who knows, there may be a sizable enclave tucked behind the Wall waiting to get all vision-y on people's behinds. ;D
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Here's what's going to happen in ilClan: The Fortress comes down as the Home Clans are set to invade...only to be met...BY 97 GALAXIES OF CAT FORCES.
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"Devlin, the Nova Cats forces are deployed by Fortress exits and are acting like they want out."
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"Devlin, the Nova Cats forces are deployed by Fortress exits and are acting like they want out."
"What, again? We just let them back in!"
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Here's what's going to happen in ilClan: The Fortress comes down as the Home Clans are set to invade...only to be met...BY 97 GALAXIES OF CAT FORCES.
Yes please
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"Devlin, the Nova Cats forces are deployed by Fortress exits and are acting like they want out."
With any luck, they get to target the DC units once the walls come down.
With OUR luck, we find out Stone has them put down in order to keep order as they decide they cant wait. :/
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With OUR luck, we find out Stone has them put down in order to keep order as they decide they cant wait. :/
To be fair, the cost of continually replacing the screens was getting ridiculous.
Silliness aside, I'm just happy someone's enjoyed the XTR: Rep series so far. O0
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To be fair, the cost of continually replacing the screens was getting ridiculous.
Silliness aside, I'm just happy someone's enjoyed the XTR: Rep series so far. O0
The first more than the second the Nova Cat bits always
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It occurred to me while talking to my brother recently that, of the Tukayyid Seven, my favorite Clans are the Reserve Clans. While their positions switch depending on my mood, I like the Sharks, Vipers, and Cats WAY better than the other original invading Clans. It's weird how that works out.
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Anyone get TRO 3150 we get much notice or slipping into history? 1st TRO I'll likely pass on due to having PDFs
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Anyone get TRO 3150 we get much notice or slipping into history? 1st TRO I'll likely pass on due to having PDFs
A Nova Cat made it to the protectorate; she won't say how.
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Much of NC staff in book
Cave lion , Avalanche, Wendigo etc
News:
-Kisho mech found , but neither he or his group
-One survived Nova Cat warrior from last battle of rebellion arrive in protectorate
-Spirit Cats have a lot of Cave Lions (trade whith SF)
-Jesicca Marik is killed
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Leafing through IO, what do you think our faction quirks will be for ISaW play?
I'm guessing Merchant Kings and Fantatical Defense ATM for Golden Age era.
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Maybe innovators or builders since we seem to come up with a lot of new designs with very little
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New Clan Nova Cat member.
Favorite mech : Sphinx.
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Good choice.
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Indeed not sure about Mech 😜
But welcome to touman
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I loves me some Sphinx. Welcome aboard!
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Anyone that likes a fist full of ER medium lasers in each hand is going to like the Sphinx. It's halfway between the Omni Nova and the Amazing Kodiak, and runs just as hot if you let it.
It will keep you warm on those long winter nights.
GC
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Ah the Sphinx. Especially love the 10 ERML DA variant with TC+MASC
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It will keep you warm on those long winter nights.
You mean those long old nights traversing the void with Kisho finding the true Promised Land? ;D
Welcome aboard Orrin!
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Just in case anyone missed it, the latest Camo Specs update features a trio of 'Mechs for Xi Galaxy in all its "fresh pack of highlighters" glory!
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I like it. Although, why is Xi Galaxy's emblem that of a Cloud Cobra, anyways?
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Long story Cliff's Note-ed, many of its original warriors had previously been members of Cloud Cobra's Rossei Cluster which practices Nova Cat mysticism.
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Much of NC staff in book
Cave lion , Avalanche, Wendigo etc
News:
-Kisho mech found , but neither he or his group
-One survived Nova Cat warrior from last battle of rebellion arrive in protectorate
-Spirit Cats have a lot of Cave Lions (trade whith SF)
-Jesicca Marik is killed
Also, on Shitara the local Nova Cat militia clusters actually rebelled against the Nova Cat galaxies there as they did not want to be dragged into the Civil War. When the Combine forces arrive, they regard the Cluster with suspicion while murdering the civilian populations. The Militia Cluster then tries to defend the civvies, and gets whacked. :(
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Because I should know this, what Cat galaxies were active at the time of the Rebellion?
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I know Alpha was one, and I wanna say the other was Delta. But that's off the top of my head.
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Because I should know this, what Cat galaxies were active at the time of the Rebellion?
Alpha Galaxy, Tau Galaxy, and Xi Provisional Galaxy, according to the Wizkids sneak peek designing document. With that said, by the time of the rebellion ,they had at least 4 galaxies, since there is mention in the latest TRO 3150 of some "Shitara Galaxy". My guess is maybe by 3143 they had 4.5 galaxies Even with a couple regiments from Dieron that is incredibly a low number to rebel against the Combine with, maybe they were really hoping Emi and Daisuke would get them more Combine regiments to flip over.
Also, on an unrelated note, although I have not written in years, I thought I would try my hand at a little bit of fan-fiction. It's a story about several Spirit Cat warriors during the early Dark Ages, and I just updated it today. http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=37756.0 :)
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Also, on Shitara the local Nova Cat militia clusters actually rebelled against the Nova Cat galaxies there as they did not want to be dragged into the Civil War. When the Combine forces arrive, they regard the Cluster with suspicion while murdering the civilian populations. The Militia Cluster then tries to defend the civvies, and gets whacked. :(
I was really hoping Shitara's Cats had gotten away - sucks (when I read in the XTRO where they were I feared for them to be honest just hopes and dreams)
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SO I hope this isn't opening old wounds, but I decided to write the sarna wiki page on the Nova Cat Rebellion. I got the basics down, but I was wondering if anyone wanted to add in more details from some of the TROs I might have missed. I still need to add in citations, and some pics.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Draconis_Combine_Civil_War
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I'm not saddened. But my hatred for Kuritans has been magnified tenfold.
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My sadness has been replaced with simmering rage, honestly. :P
Going to be sitting on the sidelines, hoping the GBs and DC get nuked.
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http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=49369.0
Enjoy.
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If there were a like button on the forums, I'd smack it.
Does anyone know of any Nova Cat-themed groups in Mechwarrior Online? On another topic?
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I haven't checked on them lately, but I remember there was a pretty decent sized CNC affiliated group on the MWO forums. Don't know if they're still around, though.
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I've done some digging and the last I heard of it was that they shut down or underwent a massive enough restructuring that it fell apart. The website's still up, but the group is dead (And nobody's on the site anymore).
Which is unfortunate. I would consider attempting to make a new CNC Group, but I lack the skill to do so. On the bright side, apparently, it is possible to paint everything in what is pretty close to Clan Nova Cat Alpha Galaxy colors. Attached link shows what it's supposed to look like.
http://i.imgur.com/9kie7fu.png (http://i.imgur.com/9kie7fu.png)
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I'm still hoping they eventually just make an official CNC affiliation, honestly.
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I am too, but this *is* PGI. They drag their feet on everything that doesn't directly give them money.
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So, working on a 3145 megamek server.
What does the Clan Protectorate touman look like? Namely, did those new Nova Cat designs like the Wendigo and Avalanche end up in the Protectorate?
Edit: Didn't notice there was a dedicated Protectorate thread.
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If there were a like button on the forums, I'd smack it.
Does anyone know of any Nova Cat-themed groups in Mechwarrior Online? On another topic?
CNCI - Clan Nova Cat International (They wouldn't let me use Clan Nova Cat Alpha Galaxy when we founded the unit) IS still around.. it's just massively informal now and mostly houses only a few active players.
There was some schisms and sadly clashes at the top which broke the unit in two. Some of us left to a new unit which floundered while CNCI remained but went mostly inactive as well.
Tough to run, maintain a lore-ish feel to a clan unit when the company doesn't acknowledge you exist.. But it is sad.. we had a good run for about three years.
--Lucian Nostra
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I really like the Wendigo in Alt. Config. B. Any thoughts on switching out the ER Small Lasers in the Head for a Laser Anti-Missile system? Or just leave it as is?
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Perfectly viable change up, but it takes away from the jumpy laser spammy goodness that is the Wendigo B.
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I once had the silliest one-sided duel ever. Wendigo B versus Some Wolf Scrub in a Black Hawk H. The few times he actually hit he did bog-all damage as I slowly dismantled him in return. Good times
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Perfectly viable change up, but it takes away from the jumpy laser spammy goodness that is the Wendigo B.
I do see that. I just remember the Spatha Gladiator 'Mech and how the TRO said that with the LAMS the only really thing it had to fear was Autocannon and Gauss fire. I thought it would be fun to use a "war of attrition" strategy against ammunition-dependent 'Mechs: stay at extreme range, ward off the missiles, dodge the other projectiles, then close in for the kill once they run out of slugs. Considering what a Wendigo is in mythology, I think it would fill the role perfectly.
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Considering the mythical Wendigo, I think I'd want to try fitting in a Chameleon system, personally. :P
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Considering the mythical Wendigo, I think I'd want to try fitting in a Chameleon system, personally. :P
Is that even possible? According to Sarna, it takes up 6 criticals and cannot be pod-mounted. While it does say that it can be integrated into the chassis of an OmniMech, it seems like a very big work-around. While I definitely like having as many stealth options as possible, I'd have to see how that affects the pod space, armor, and MP first...I might try building a custom "Wendigo II" and increase the tonnage a bit and see what that does.
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You can fit a Chameleon system into a Omni. It just eats into precious critical slots, so you need to watch the heat. Considering that special version of the Wight we were toting around at one point, we'd have more of an excuse to use it then some.
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Tiniest of quibbles - you can make an Omni with a Chameleon system as fixed equipment but it can't be pod mounted. If you wanted to make, say, a Shadow Cat III (This Time it Really is a Shadow CatTM) have at it.
*Edit* For reference, it's actually really easily done. >:D
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Chameleon AND Null sig! ^^
We can haz dezgra mech plz?
At some point, I want to see just how many M-Pods I can fit on a Nova Cat mech, to more suitably emulate the Clan's namesake. :D "Oh hai!" *boomboomboom*
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Good to know. Then a Chameleon-Wendigo-Cat is in the works. I like how on one hand it can be Distracting because of the Laser Reflective Armor (and the Xi Galaxy paint scheme it will have) and on the the other hand it can just vanish at will.
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Hate to drag this out of the graveyard, but I wanted to ask; Does anyone know what the Clan Nova Cat Delta Galaxy paint scheme is?
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Pre MWDA figures all Nova Cat galaxies with the exception of Alpha and Xi basically stuck to a "camo as appropriate". Alpha usually had black with a blue star field across the center torso and Xi sported the tippy neon and glyphs/symbols scheme.
On the bright side, that does leave players with a lot of freedom to muck about with different themes. I've been using a siamese cat inspired tan and brown.
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That's a shame. The only references I have are the Pakhet hero from MWO and Megamek's scheme, which looks like Black with orange/red paint splattered all over.
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Hate to drag this out of the graveyard, but I wanted to ask; Does anyone know what the Clan Nova Cat Delta Galaxy paint scheme is?
Per Campspecs http://www.camospecs.com/Unit/Details/585/delta-galaxy there isn't one that's been canonized.
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Also not canon, but I rather liked the pattern they gave the Nova Cats in DA. White Armor, Black Other Bits, Gold cockpit, and the occasional red panel for color.
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I do not know if this has been quoted here, but here is a special design by Matt Plog for the Novacats:
http://www.deviantart.com/art/comm-Nova-Cat-Protomech-637425902
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It appears to be re-imagined Fenrir to me. Looking better than the Quad BA it's loosely based on.
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I do not know if this has been quoted here, but here is a special design by Matt Plog for the Novacats:
http://www.deviantart.com/art/comm-Nova-Cat-Protomech-637425902
I like it just missing some stats
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It's adorable.
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Hmmm ... can squeeze in dual ER smalls, small streak launcher with five shots, decent amount of armor, and 7/11 movement profile if you get the size right. And I want a stuffed version.
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Hmmm ... can squeeze in dual ER smalls, small streak launcher with five shots, decent amount of armor, and 7/11 movement profile if you get the size right. And I want a stuffed version.
At least twelve tons I'd say go for something that can hold its own
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Here's a Nova Cat BA (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55511.0) I worked up. It's only assault class though and not a Quad proto that is supposed to be. I still think it' pretty bad ass.
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H-hello? I hope I am not violating any anti-thread-necromancy* rules that I have not noticed in the forum rules on my very first post here, but I figured, after coming back to BattleTech after like thirteen years and promptly discarding any plans I might have had way back for associating myself with other factions in favour of the noble Nova Cat, it would be just befitting to come here and see if there are still any sibkin around!
And - just so there is more substance to this post than just me introducing myself - a question regarding our clan that I have not been able to find any information on on my own: How do the Nova Cats treat freeborn, compared to other clans? I know we are more fair-handed than most when it comes to caste differences, but where do we fall when it comes to that ancient trueborn-freeborn divide?
My guess would be "probably more egalitarian than most as well", simply because the Smoke Jaguars were amongst the most extremely anti-freeborn clans out there, and I have found that more often than not, our clan and the Jaguars are polar opposites when it comes to simply everything, but is there any proper information on that out there?
* Though admittedly, this very thread by its name and subject already dabbles in necromancy, so I figure I should be safe. From breaking anti-necromancy rules, that is. Perhaps not so much from the zombie catgirls.
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"zombie" is more a reference to some of the developments that have happened to the Nova Cats during your absence. If you're not aware of the events of the 32nd century... well you may want to ease into reading up on them. Or get it all at once like a band aid or jumping into a cold lake. I dunno :]
As for thread necromancy: every faction has a fan thread and this one is the Nova Cats'. No harm done, I'm sure. Things have just been a little quiet is all.
Welcome back to BattleTech!
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Thanks for the welcome! :)
I have been reading these forums quietly before joining for a while now - and also the Sarna wiki - but it is a lot of history to take in. But yes, I do understand the meaning of the thread's title, and the simmering rage of the trothkin posting in this thread. I count myself lucky that the other BattleTech players around here much prefer the 3050ies, so I am still at a point in time where all of this can be prevented! :P (also, they are all Smoke Jaguar enthusiasts, so not only are they unlikely to desire pushing the timeline into the 3060ies and their own extinction, but also provide me with a perfect opportunity to bring glory to the clan in our century-old feud)!
In all honesty though, it is rather astounding to me - back then, MechWarrior: Dark Age and, with it, the whole Jihad and all of the changes wrought upon the universe, were still quite new and, near as I could tell, pretty much universally rejected by all Classic BattleTech players. Now, CBT appears to have not only caught up with it, but to also have filled in a whole lot of detail and complexity into the 32nd century setting - I am still struggling with convincing myself that the Jihad and the ruin of everything I knew before is not just some nightmare from some other game that no CBT player cares about anyway, but has actually become proper, generally accepted canon now. Or at least, that is the impression I get.
Makes for an exciting (even if oftentimes tragic) new world for me, though. So much has changed! So much to discover!
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To answer the question asked; the Nova Cats were one of the more Liberal clans and generally tended towards being nicer towars Freebirths and heir lower Castes. For example, the Cats had the third strongest Merchant Caste of the Clans pre-abjuration. Even though they tended to flip-flop between Crusader an Warden, they were pretty consistently liberal
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Opertunistic is a term I'd use to describe them
They see where the wind is blowing but now where it leads them
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To answer the question asked; the Nova Cats were one of the more Liberal clans and generally tended towards being nicer towars Freebirths and heir lower Castes. For example, the Cats had the third strongest Merchant Caste of the Clans pre-abjuration. Even though they tended to flip-flop between Crusader an Warden, they were pretty consistently liberal
So can one generally assume that a clan that is liberal towards its lower castes is also going to be more liberal towards freeborn? Because I could easily imagine a clan that is just fine with treating its lower castes fairly and respectfully - but only as long as they know their place and do not try to reach above their station.
Though I guess the most common reason for a clan's warriors treating the other castes like, well, people, would be those warriors being less full of themselves than usual, so it would be natural for decent treatment of other castes and freeborn to go hand in hand.
Also, third strongest merchant caste? So, with Diamond Foxes/Sea Sharks obviously being the frontrunners, who is number two, then? I had always thought that was the Cats. Is it the Snow Ravens, then, with their giant fleet capacities? Somebody else?
Opertunistic is a term I'd use to describe them
They see where the wind is blowing but now where it leads them
I prefer to think of it as, those amongst them who do recognize where it leads them are the ones who end up making the right choice and go whereever destiny wants them to go, with the others, sadly, turning dust and legend. After all, did not the Founder choose the nova cat for its keen sense for danger? And did not, every time that disaster befell the Cats, some of them get away and survive elsewhere? Give it some more generations, and those who survive will end up honing their sense for which path to take to preternatural sharpness, by sheer not-quite-so-natural selection. :P
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Also, third strongest merchant caste? So, with Diamond Foxes/Sea Sharks obviously being the frontrunners, who is number two, then? I had always thought that was the Cats. Is it the Snow Ravens, then, with their giant fleet capacities? Somebody else?
Jade Falcons
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Jade Falcon Bonds are described once or twice as being considered in-universe as being a sure bet.
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I don't think there are many examples of the Nova Cat views, positive or negative, about freeborns. I know the Nova Cat enclaves in the Republic certainly go liberal enough to support both the bloodnaming and election as leader of Kev Rosse. He was a freeborn, only one of his parents was even from the Clan, the other was a Republic warrior.
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I don't think there are many examples of the Nova Cat views, positive or negative, about freeborns. I know the Nova Cat enclaves in the Republic certainly go liberal enough to support both the bloodnaming and election as leader of Kev Rosse. He was a freeborn, only one of his parents was even from the Clan, the other was a Republic warrior.
In the novel Path of Glory MechWarrior Zane watches a freeborn family with what I would describe curiosity more than disdain he sees them more alien than anything he doesn't really understand them
I guess it's more of a general Clan view for trueborns the concept of a mother father children family unit is not normal to them
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Oh, right, the Falcons. Now that I think about it, I believe I remember reading some proverbs about Jade Falcon bankers that essentially made the Jade Falcons sound exactly like the Lannisters. ;D
Alright, those examples of Nova Cat fair-handedness towards freeborn certainly do sound convincing. I am rather glad to hear our clan shows wisdom in this regard, too. :)
Another question: I have read multiple times that, unlike all other Clans, the Nova Cats do recognize the wisdom of old age and tend not to cycle out their warriors quite as early as other Clans do. On the other hand, I also remember reading about Nova Cat solahma units nonetheless being a thing that exists. How do those two things fit together? Do Nova Cat solahmas simply consist of warriors who are truly ancient? Or are Nova Cat solahmas an aberration, maybe something that only came up before the fluff had fully settled and details about the Nova Cats been established? And, if Nova Cat warriors last longer than normal, is there any information on what the typical age for them to be mustered out actually is?
Also, would not the Nova Cat touman be quite a bit larger than it normally should be, in comparison with other Clans, if they graduated a comparable number of new warriors from their sibkos, but then kept those warriors in service for appreciably longer?
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Oh, right, the Falcons. Now that I think about it, I believe I remember reading some proverbs about Jade Falcon bankers that essentially made the Jade Falcons sound exactly like the Lannisters. ;D
Alright, those examples of Nova Cat fair-handedness towards freeborn certainly do sound convincing. I am rather glad to hear our clan shows wisdom in this regard, too. :)
Another question: I have read multiple times that, unlike all other Clans, the Nova Cats do recognize the wisdom of old age and tend not to cycle out their warriors quite as early as other Clans do. On the other hand, I also remember reading about Nova Cat solahma units nonetheless being a thing that exists. How do those two things fit together? Do Nova Cat solahmas simply consist of warriors who are truly ancient? Or are Nova Cat solahmas an aberration, maybe something that only came up before the fluff had fully settled and details about the Nova Cats been established? And, if Nova Cat warriors last longer than normal, is there any information on what the typical age for them to be mustered out actually is?
Also, would not the Nova Cat touman be quite a bit larger than it normally should be, in comparison with other Clans, if they graduated a comparable number of new warriors from their sibkos, but then kept those warriors in service for appreciably longer?
They did have a rather large Touman prior to and just after REVIVAL, and that might have been part of the reason. I'd suspect a bigger reason was the stronger (than most Clans') economic situation being able to equip/maintain the larger pool of materiel, however. Especially their WarShip fleet, which again was not THE largest but one of the largest.
Unfortunately for the Nova Cats, that impressively-large touman began taking major hits due to political decisions. They had a talent for being attacked with extreme prejudice (Abjured, Ghost Bear feud, and finally the DC Civil War) and while they gave away command discretion of their forces on numerous occasions (to the SLDF, to the DCMS) they actually literally gave away half their Touman entirely to Stone and the Republic. (which in turn helped cement the inevitability of their role in the DC Civil War)
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Still think it would have been better for the Cats to put two fingers up to the Combine during the Jihad and pulled a Ghost Bear relocating everything they had to the Republic. It would have been truly in Nova Cat style to completely switch sides.
Unfortunately ClickyTech fluff had Cats in the Combine so that was never going to happen.
Now unfortunately one of the stand out Nova Cat enclaves in the Republic turned out to be on Shitara which got steamrolled by the Combine.
The Spirit Cats remain but they aren't in the best position as close to the Wolf Empire as they are
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True (re Spirit Cats), but at least a slim hope is better than no hope.
And then there's whatever happened to Mystic Kisho. I'm crossing my fingers that we find out what happened to him one day.
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True (re Spirit Cats), but at least a slim hope is better than no hope.
And then there's whatever happened to Mystic Kisho. I'm crossing my fingers that we find out what happened to him one day.
He retreated to the Nova Cat's secret periphery base where they are building Clusters of Orca Colossal class BattleMechs and 2.5 Million WarShips capable of landing on top of the Inner Sphere's largest cities crushing them... Starting with Luthien... >:D
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He retreated to the Nova Cat's secret periphery base where they are building Clusters of Orca Colossal class BattleMechs and 2.5 Million WarShips capable of landing on top of the Inner Sphere's largest cities crushing them... Starting with Luthien... >:D
Works for me :D
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Another question: I have read multiple times that, unlike all other Clans, the Nova Cats do recognize the wisdom of old age and tend not to cycle out their warriors quite as early as other Clans do. On the other hand, I also remember reading about Nova Cat solahma units nonetheless being a thing that exists. How do those two things fit together? Do Nova Cat solahmas simply consist of warriors who are truly ancient? Or are Nova Cat solahmas an aberration, maybe something that only came up before the fluff had fully settled and details about the Nova Cats been established? And, if Nova Cat warriors last longer than normal, is there any information on what the typical age for them to be mustered out actually is?
Also, would not the Nova Cat touman be quite a bit larger than it normally should be, in comparison with other Clans, if they graduated a comparable number of new warriors from their sibkos, but then kept those warriors in service for appreciably longer?
It's one of those things that's not fantasically explained or expanded upon. I'd imagine that it's some sort of midway between the two. An older, unblooded Nova Cat might be treated better then his counterpart in another Clan; less obvious pressure, less bias, less disdain and the like. However, they are still competing with younger warriors at every stage still; even if they're not being openly sneered at (cf Star Commander Pytor) they still have to fight trials to keep their spots against the young guns. So a Nova Cat slohama cluster would still be made up of older warriors who have failed trials to keep their positions.
Conversely, a Bloodnamed Nova Cat would have a lot more respect and probably not face the same degree of pressure from below. Rather and older, Bloodnamed, Nova Cat warrior is treated with respect more then in any other Clan, and would not have the same need to prove themselves as they would elsewhere.
Bearing in mind, this is just my own theory. Your mileage may vary.
Also, Falcon Bankers are terrifying
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Also, Falcon Bankers are terrifying
I know, right? Only a madman would wear a bird costume to work.
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They did have a rather large Touman prior to and just after REVIVAL, and that might have been part of the reason. I'd suspect a bigger reason was the stronger (than most Clans') economic situation being able to equip/maintain the larger pool of materiel, however.
It definitely is the aspect that is stressed far more often about the Nova Cats, indeed.
Especially their WarShip fleet, which again was not THE largest but one of the largest.
No kidding, given that Field Manual: ComStar states they had the third largest WarShip fleet amongst the Clans and the fourth largest one in known space. :o
Bearing in mind, this is just my own theory. Your mileage may vary.
Definitely sounds very plausible though. I shall henceforth consider that head canon as well. :)
I know, right? Only a madman would wear a bird costume to work.
I know, right? Why cannot they just wear cat costumes like all reasonable people instead? :P
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Welcome aboard! Please enjoy your complimentary Huntsman and supply of cookies. *Psst, your can store the cookies in the 'Mech's back fin. That's why it's there.*
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Honestly, I love the Huntsman's fin. Great place to put insults and taunts for all to see.
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Woo! Cookies! Thank you so much! *nom*
...wait, cookies are something that can be stored? :o
Coincidentally, I actually primed my first two Huntsmen just yesterday. And yes, those fins are awesome. Now I will just have to decide whether to go with my original plan and paint that akin to the red-yellow-pattern of a nova cat's mane, or whether to pick up Caedis_Animus' suggestion, which most certainly is not without merit either. ;D
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If you want to go with something more friendly, you could go with a passage of the remembrance. Or a simple Nova Cat emblem.
It does kind of bother me that there really isn't a real reason for the fin to exist, and I imagine that thing gets shot off frequently.
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Oh, I am definitely putting the Nova Cat emblem somewhere on the 'Mech - I do so with all of them. Whether it goes on the fin - which, indeed, seems to offer itself for that - or on a shoulder as with most of my 'Mechs, I shall see once I get to that point.
As for the actual use of the fin, I imagine it has to exist either to specifically serve as a place to put Clan, unit and/or personal emblems, or to house some sort of sensor or communications array, or (my first guess when I saw the Huntsman) to work as the radiator of some elaborate cooling mechanism, akin to the sail of a dimetrodon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimetrodon).
Or maybe - to tie in to your comment that it likely gets shot off frequently - it deliberately serves no purpose, but since no enemy would ever expect that, they may be wasting valuable time and ammo shooting it off, rather than parts of the 'Mech that actually do things. :P
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The Huntsman is a Nova upgraded with ferro fibrous armor and awesomeness. The awesomeness is mostly in the fin.
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That would explain that then, would it not? Between the usual stuff and the single jump jet, there just were not enough criticals left in the central torso to install all of the awesomeness, so they had to add a whole new peripheral part to the 'Mech just to create the necessary space! :)
Now, even though I have little desire to tear open old wounds, or otherwise bring up sad topics, I do have a few questions regarding the Abjuration:
1) When the Grand Council abjured us, why did we not demand a Test of Refusal? Even if the odds had been terrible, given that the other clans would presumably have bid amongst each other, it might have ended up being something beatable anyway.
2) Speaking of which, why did the other Warden clans not stand more firmly with us? According to the wiki, they did vote down Clan Star Adder's original proposal to call for a Test of Annihilation, so why did they not cast their votes with the Cats again when it came to Abjuration? After all, while I completely understand that to a Crusader, what Clan Nova Cat did would seem like straight-up betrayal of the Clans, I would think Wardens should have quite a lot of sympathy for what the Nova Cats did - in fact, if they did not at least consider doing exactly the same, why, in my eyes they could hardly call themselves Wardens at all! (Unless I fundamentally misunderstand the way Clans in general and Wardens in particular think)
3) And even if they did not see fit to vote in favour of the Cats in the Grand Council, how come they just allowed the Crusaders to get away scot-free with everything the Crusaders did afterwards? Dishonoring the grace period is, well, dishonorable enough, but then refusing zellbrigen and, most critically, performing genocide on the Nova Cats' lower castes? Are these not precisely the actions that usually mark a Clan as fallen and ripe for Annihilation?
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Just my view.
1. Both Khans were dead. In the absence of leadership, chaos reigned.
2. Way of the Clans. Clans sink or swim on their own merits. The strongest Warden Clan (the Bears) had just embraced the Warden way, and most of their touman was in the IS anyway. None of the others had the strength or desire to get in the way of rampaging Crusaders.
3. There was no benefit to them. As an abjured Clan, the Nova Cats had no rights. Also, everyone was too busy fighting the opening rounds of the Wars of Possession, the years of trials fought over the Ghost Bear, Smoke Jaguar, and yes, Nova Cat territory.
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That would explain that then, would it not? Between the usual stuff and the single jump jet, there just were not enough criticals left in the central torso to install all of the awesomeness, so they had to add a whole new peripheral part to the 'Mech just to create the necessary space! :)
Now, even though I have little desire to tear open old wounds, or otherwise bring up sad topics, I do have a few questions regarding the Abjuration:
1) When the Grand Council abjured us, why did we not demand a Test of Refusal? Even if the odds had been terrible, given that the other clans would presumably have bid amongst each other, it might have ended up being something beatable anyway.
Both Khans were dead the Clan was in shock at their decision to turn against the other Clans and in chaos. It's actually impressive the numbers of Nova Cats that got out of the Homeworlds did.
2) Speaking of which, why did the other Warden clans not stand more firmly with us? According to the wiki, they did vote down Clan Star Adder's original proposal to call for a Test of Annihilation, so why did they not cast their votes with the Cats again when it came to Abjuration? After all, while I completely understand that to a Crusader, what Clan Nova Cat did would seem like straight-up betrayal of the Clans, I would think Wardens should have quite a lot of sympathy for what the Nova Cats did - in fact, if they did not at least consider doing exactly the same, why, in my eyes they could hardly call themselves Wardens at all! (Unless I fundamentally misunderstand the way Clans in general and Wardens in particular think)
They were pissed at the Nova Cats for betraying them and fighting for the Inner Sphere
The Diamond Sharks and Snow Ravens did provide transports and escorts in exchange for territory but that's the most the Nova Cats could have expected
3) And even if they did not see fit to vote in favour of the Cats in the Grand Council, how come they just allowed the Crusaders to get away scot-free with everything the Crusaders did afterwards? Dishonoring the grace period is, well, dishonorable enough, but then refusing zellbrigen and, most critically, performing genocide on the Nova Cats' lower castes? Are these not precisely the actions that usually mark a Clan as fallen and ripe for Annihilation?
Anger and Shock. The Clans did not expect the Inner Sphere to ever find the Homeworlds let alone destroy the Smoke Jaguar Clan which at that moment was led by the ilKhan himself. So the Grand Council was in shock and they were angry the Nova Cats had fought for the Star League Defence Force defeating the Ice Hellions which added to the Clans defeat and the complete end to the Invasion.
If the Nova Cats had purely refused to fight in the Trial of Refusal instead sitting on the side lines they would have remained part of Clan society unfortunately their entire invasion force had already switched sides to the SLDF fighting the Jags in several occasions so the Nova Cat Clan would have become one of the weakest homeworlds Clans and ripe for its own absorption.
In other words the Nova Cats screwed themselves and burned every bridge to the other Clans by turning on them it was a betrayal of the Clan ideal - a big mistake but not the Nova Cat's last.
Turning their backs on the Draconis Combine during the Jihad - originally withdrawing from their posts to their enclaves and then joining Stoner was pretty much a rerun of their screw up at the Trial of Refusal
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Just my view.
1. Both Khans were dead. In the absence of leadership, chaos reigned.
2. Way of the Clans. Clans sink or swim on their own merits. The strongest Warden Clan (the Bears) had just embraced the Warden way, and most of their touman was in the IS anyway. None of the others had the strength or desire to get in the way of rampaging Crusaders.
3. There was no benefit to them. As an abjured Clan, the Nova Cats had no rights. Also, everyone was too busy fighting the opening rounds of the Wars of Possession, the years of trials fought over the Ghost Bear, Smoke Jaguar, and yes, Nova Cat territory.
Beat me to it by seconds :))
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Just my view.
1. Both Khans were dead. In the absence of leadership, chaos reigned.
Both Khans were dead the Clan was in shock at their decision to turn against the other Clans and in chaos. It's actually impressive the numbers of Nova Cats that got out of the Homeworlds did.
Ah. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. :)
2. Way of the Clans. Clans sink or swim on their own merits. The strongest Warden Clan (the Bears) had just embraced the Warden way, and most of their touman was in the IS anyway. None of the others had the strength or desire to get in the way of rampaging Crusaders.
On the other hand, they did vote down the original notion of straight-up annihilating the Nova Cats, so what was stopping them from just casting their votes the same way again when it came to Abjuration?
Unless, for the most part, they did, and the difference came from some moderate Crusader Clan that thought Annihilation was going to far, but considered Abjuration a fair punishment...
They were pissed at the Nova Cats for betraying them and fighting for the Inner Sphere
The Diamond Sharks and Snow Ravens did provide transports and escorts in exchange for territory but that's the most the Nova Cats could have expected
That is just what I was wondering about in that part you quoted though - while I completely understand why the Crusaders would consider the Nova Cats fighting for the Inner Sphere to be betrayal, I utterly fail to comprehend why the Warden Clans would think that way. If they can be called Wardens at all, I would think, the thought of fighting for the Inner Sphere should at least have crossed their own minds as well! After all, is that not just bringing the Warden ideology to its logical conclusion?
3. There was no benefit to them. As an abjured Clan, the Nova Cats had no rights. Also, everyone was too busy fighting the opening rounds of the Wars of Possession, the years of trials fought over the Ghost Bear, Smoke Jaguar, and yes, Nova Cat territory.
Do Clans necessarily always look out for benefit to themselves when it comes to punishing those who stray too much from the Clan ideal and betray Kerensky's vision, though?
Throughout both the novels and BattleTech history in the wiki, I always had the impression that all Clans were always afraid of taking too un-Clanlike actions, for fear of being declared corrupted by the Great Council and made a target for Absorption or Annihilation (ultimately, is that not sort of what happened to both Clan Widowmaker and Clan Mongoose?). And genocide in particular, I thought, was something that the Clans abhorred. Is that not the case, then? Do Clans only oppose other Clans violating their traditions if they can see some benefit to themselves in doing so, and are happy to just turn their eyes away otherwise?
Anger and Shock. The Clans did not expect the Inner Sphere to ever find the Homeworlds let alone destroy the Smoke Jaguar Clan which at that moment was led by the ilKhan himself. So the Grand Council was in shock and they were angry the Nova Cats had fought for the Star League Defence Force defeating the Ice Hellions which added to the Clans defeat and the complete end to the Invasion.
If the Nova Cats had purely refused to fight in the Trial of Refusal instead sitting on the side lines they would have remained part of Clan society unfortunately their entire invasion force had already switched sides to the SLDF fighting the Jags in several occasions so the Nova Cat Clan would have become one of the weakest homeworlds Clans and ripe for its own absorption.
See above - why would the Wardens view it that way, though?
But, okay, I guess shock in particular can easily drive people to forget about their ideals and act in fear and panic. After all, the Warden Clans, too, voted in favour of the invasion after the arrival of the Outbound Light (something that I, admittedly, also always found somewhat difficult to understand - and which, too, I interpret as people in shock and panic making choices they might not have made otherwise).
In other words the Nova Cats screwed themselves and burned every bridge to the other Clans by turning on them it was a betrayal of the Clan ideal - a big mistake but not the Nova Cat's last.
Turning their backs on the Draconis Combine during the Jihad - originally withdrawing from their posts to their enclaves and then joining Stoner was pretty much a rerun of their screw up at the Trial of Refusal
That is a nice parallel. :)
I think I view it quite a bit differently though. To me, that seems not so much a mistake, as the Nova Cats choosing to act on their ideals and do what is right, rather than just looking for the easiest and safest path. That, I would say, is the very definition of heroism - in a universe where heroes often end tragically.
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The Clans, overall, are hilariously hypocritical. That explains pretty much everything.
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The next Spotlight on is Stone's Trackers which originated from the 212th Nova Cat Headhunter so we might get more Nova Cat info
Dreaming Kitten I don't agree with your last statement I just didn't notice it until now :-[ few Heros survive BT eventually the clock strikes zero
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The Clans, overall, are hilariously hypocritical. That explains pretty much everything.
I guess that would explain that, true enough. Kind of hard to argue against it, too.
Dreaming Kitten I don't agree with your last statement I just didn't notice it until now :-[ few Heros survive BT eventually the clock strikes zero
Is that not what I said? It is a universe where heroes all too often end tragically - but then, if the right path was easy, it would not take a hero to take it. ;)
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Jade Falcons
I would describe the Falcons more as bankers than merchants.
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I understand they had a very large military and merchant fleets. When they were abjured:
How many active ships did they lose?
Did they leave active ships behind? ( captured)?
Did they leave cached ships behind
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I understand they had a very large military and merchant fleets. When they were abjured:
How many active ships did they lose?
Did they leave active ships behind? ( captured)?
Did they leave cached ships behind
None during adjournment several in trades to the Sharks to rebuild ground forces. The rest of fleet diring Jihad
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I always saw the Nova Cat withdrawal from the Homeworlds as a harried affair Forever Faithful Novel paints a different picture in fact puts nearly an honourable take on it
Also seeing that Santin West wasnt just drinking Star League juice instead saw the Nova Cats walking a path that they were making alone
Now as a novel placed before the Jihad but written after it I'm not sure how much is rectcon but it's a great novel about the End of the Jaguars and the Nova Cats very tangible link to their remnants in the Fidelis
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I always saw the Nova Cat withdrawal from the Homeworlds as a harried affair Forever Faithful Novel paints a different picture in fact puts nearly an honourable take on it
Also seeing that Santin West wasnt just drinking Star League juice instead saw the Nova Cats walking a path that they were making alone
Now as a novel placed before the Jihad but written after it I'm not sure how much is rectcon but it's a great novel about the End of the Jaguars and the Nova Cats very tangible link to their remnants in the Fidelis
Thanks for recommendation! Kindle edition available?
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Yes it is
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Hey guys,
Been mostly hanging out in the Off Topic areas of the forums. Anything new and interesting pop up for our favorite group of extinct kitties?
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Hey guys,
Been mostly hanging out in the Off Topic areas of the forums. Anything new and interesting pop up for our favorite group of extinct kitties?
Well, the Cats were instrumental in helping to form the Fidelis. So, there's that.
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As of this posting the kickstarter for the Clan Invasion box has unlocked rewards for faction swag (like dice and patches and so on) for 2 of the 3 reserve Clans. And the rate it's going, 3 for 3 can't be far off. So there'll be new Nova Cat swag to be had (via Kickstarter) before long.
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As of this posting the kickstarter for the Clan Invasion box has unlocked rewards for faction swag (like dice and patches and so on) for 2 of the 3 reserve Clans. And the rate it's going, 3 for 3 can't be far off. So there'll be new Nova Cat swag to be had (via Kickstarter) before long.
I can neither confirm nor deny that the Nova Cat options getting unlocked in the Kickstarter may have kickstarted ME back into maybe getting back into Battletech again. 8) What can I say, I'm loyal. :D
Well, the Cats were instrumental in helping to form the Fidelis. So, there's that.
...Do tell.
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...Do tell.
Check out the novel "Forever Faithful." Short version, the Nova Cats escort a cross section of Jaguar survivors from Huntress to Wayside V, where Trent assists Paul Moon with the establishment of a colony, fends off a Goliath Scorpion attack, and the creation of the Fidelis. And boy, that final chapter >:D
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Q1: Are there any greater details on forces and the Nova Cats last stand at Kagoshima? 1st Amphigean Light Assault Group is the DCS unit that is present. I'm unable to see if Nova Cat units in the battle are defined at all. I assume these are remnant forces from the previous battles cobbled together in the field?
I hope the Nova Cats get some details about the battle, as they deserve a heroic last stand that can be re-told at the "Chronicle of Battles". ("Last stand" being retold ... ya seeee what I did there? ;D )
Q2: Also, any more details about Kagoshima itself (greater than those posted on Sarna)? Climate/terrain etc?
I'm a new BattleTech player hoping to use the recent game boxes, IWM models (for the more modern 3145 mechs), and the upcoming Clan Invasion kickstarter to play Nova Cat Rebellion romp-stompy Samurai robot fun.
Loved reading this thread. Thanks everyone. Samurai pizza cats ... hoooooooooooooo!
(EDIT: Kagoshima only contains a single cluster of Nova Cats vs the entire 1st Amphigean Light Assault Group. So maybe the battle more to model is the two day final resistance of of Irece and Khan Nostra.)
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I can neither confirm nor deny that the Nova Cat options getting unlocked in the Kickstarter may have kickstarted ME back into maybe getting back into Battletech again. 8) What can I say, I'm loyal. :D
That's the problem with us addicts, all it takes is a sniff and we're right back where we shouldn't be.
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Q1: Are there any greater details on forces and the Nova Cats last stand at Kagoshima? 1st Amphigean Light Assault Group is the DCS unit that is present. I'm unable to see if Nova Cat units in the battle are defined at all. I assume these are remnant forces from the previous battles cobbled together in the field?
I hope the Nova Cats get some details about the battle, as they deserve a heroic last stand that can be re-told at the "Chronicle of Battles". ("Last stand" being retold ... ya seeee what I did there? ;D )
Q2: Also, any more details about Kagoshima itself (greater than those posted on Sarna)? Climate/terrain etc?
The lack of expansion and such is one of the reasons I got so pissed off about it. It was very much 'And then they all got killed off' in the space of a few pages. Pretty crappy way to end things, and being told 'But look over there in the FWL, thats what you get now' didnt help. Now I know how the old time FRR fans feel.
But no, nothing really got expanded on since then, as far as I'm aware?
Speaking of the Kickstarter, this just got posted.
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/026/190/551/085522a700808b50c43dbfc65ef75bdd_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-2.1.0&w=700&fit=max&v=1566243316&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=652af40c10224869f6361376fb2c8e4b)
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The lack of expansion and such is one of the reasons I got so pissed off about it. It was very much 'And then they all got killed off' in the space of a few pages. Pretty crappy way to end things, and being told 'But look over there in the FWL, thats what you get now' didnt help. Now I know how the old time FRR fans feel.
Has it been long enough that I can finally be openly angry about it? 'Cause I know there was the whole bellyaching mess with some of the FedSuns fans around the same time, and I distinctly remember thinking "nope, I'm above that sort of shenanigans and pettiness, so I'll just quietly disappear and reread Invading Clans with a tear in my eye." Which sucked.
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I realize that the Nova Cats never had the fanbase that some of the others did, but the way they got written out seems like a casual brushing aside. The lot of us who had stayed loyal to them for so many years was that our final denouement was almost a foot note, a few pages in a massive summary. Other factions got whole scenario books written for them when they met their end, or even an entire novel arc, we got the proverbial whimper. I know intellectually it wasn't meant personally, and they had to update a whole universe, but it still rather stings on an emotional level. Not helped by any Nova Cat mentions in other products seemingly either downplaying the accomplishments we did have, or ignoring (to us) obvious links. This was compounded by flippant reactions by some. Yes, In Universe the Cats made mistakes, but they were WRITTEN that way.
I wouldn't say I'm angry, personally. I got that out of my system long ago. Annoyed and bitter though? Yes. That growing discontentment was partly what triggered me to just hanging out in the off topic areas only for just a while (combined with losing my job around then too). It just sorta wore me down after a while. Why get invested and spend money on stuff if it's just going to lead to more disappointment?
The Kickstarter did a lot to help get me motivated again as the Clan Invasion was probably our crowning moment in the Universe, our heyday. I'm hoping we'll eventually get a bit more lore devoted to us (and I went Gal Commander, so we'll get at least one Nova Cat personage detailed), but there's this lingering fear that's keeping me a bit detached. We'll see how it goes.
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I was very tempted with that but bills to pay so not happening
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I ended up not being able to make up my mind, so I finally settled on the Comstar level with a bunch of extras (something about the blind boxes just tickles me in ways that would make regular, normal adult humans shake their heads in shame.) I would've loved to find a way to justify all the goodies, but cash aside, it's like Istal said: I've detached myself from the whole thing. Honestly, I'd thought I'd walked away from all of it for good. Tried to, anyway. My only mistake was inundating an old friend so deeply into the game years ago, that when the kickstarter went live, that's all he wanted to talk about. Damn my lack of foresight.
But anyway, yeah, I rediscovered my love of the universe in spite of myself. Just this time, up to a point. I'm not wanting to sound like some kind of 'grognard' or luddite, but I'm not invested at all in the future of the setting. There's not much there for me, unless someone wants to write up the Star Adders attacking and burning the Bears and Dracs to the ground in a glorious suicide charge. That might make me smile a bit. Okay, maybe more than a little bit. Hell, I'd probably ascend to another plane of existence in a hysterical fit of joy. But that's neither here nor there.
I look forward to BattleTech becoming awesome again, but I watched my Cats and Vipers both lose horribly in (relatively) rapid succession. At least the Vipers went down fighting, like a Clan should. Meh, I'm becoming pedantic. Apologies all.
Ahem, anyway, blind boxes. Woo! It's like the first day of clickytech all over again. Hopefully not quite like that, but you know what I mean. Anyone else pony up for swag?
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Beat me to it by seconds :))
Excellent points re: the abjuration as their leaving of the homeworlds was so rushed I would think their Brian caches and even some cached warships got left behind. I surprised nothing like that turned up in the wars of reaving
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Excellent points re: the abjuration as their leaving of the homeworlds was so rushed I would think their Brian caches and even some cached warships got left behind. I surprised nothing like that turned up in the wars of reaving
If the cats had cached ships what types do you think they would be?
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Considering how big a part of their Touman the navy was and how much they struggled after it was destroyed in the Jihad (I know it was written that way but it still doesn't make sense) I highly doubt any WarShips were in the Nova Cat caches
However if anything was left according to the Nova Cats naval introduction they never fielded anything bigger than a Battle-cruiser. So that gives you a guide on size I'd also highly doubt that the Clans would leave many operational ships of that size in the Caches
At the most I'd expect old Inner Sphere nation state ships that joined the Exodus but the Clans weren't interested in like the Robinson Transport or the early Marik destroyer I cant remember the name of
Units that could have been of use but would have needed a lot of work
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Considering how big a part of their Touman the navy was and how much they struggled after it was destroyed in the Jihad (I know it was written that way but it still doesn't make sense) I highly doubt any WarShips were in the Nova Cat caches
However if anything was left according to the Nova Cats naval introduction they never fielded anything bigger than a Battle-cruiser. So that gives you a guide on size I'd also highly doubt that the Clans would leave many operational ships of that size in the Caches
At the most I'd expect old Inner Sphere nation state ships that joined the Exodus but the Clans weren't interested in like the Robinson Transport or the early Marik destroyer I cant remember the name of
Units that could have been of use but would have needed a lot of work
That makes sense and lord knows they had lots of car racks and aegis
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The cat was notable for having a huge amount of aegis ( aegi?) I am curious as to why certain factions got the units they did from an authors POV?
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I've been trying to organize the clan mechs I expect to receive from the Kickstarter (which will be my introduction to clan mechs), and then Xi Galaxy caught my attention. Looks like a painter's dream. Fever dream, I mean.
What books can I read to try to find out when they moved into the Inner Sphere? From what I see, it looks like it must have been after Tukayyid but not by a lot. And they were a garrison force, but... Camo Specs has both battlemechs and omnimechs in their colors. Were they unusually well equipped or did something change?
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Xi started out as a 2nd line unit but was later upgraded to frontline due to their actions. There's no single area to look them up, but noteable bits of history involve a breakaway group of Cloud Cobra warriors who emigrated to the IS Nova Cats to join them, and getting nuked during the Jihad when trying to fight the Blakists.
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Did all of the shared nova cat blood heritages in the homeworlds get reaved?
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Don't know. We can assume so, but there is no mention of Nova Cat bloodlines anywhere in TWoR or in the supplemental.
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Still pretty newish the lore, but I thought sharing of Bloodnames didn't happen until after WoR/Jihad. So, the Cats would have not been a part of it in the first place
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Shared, or non-Exclusive bloodnames started to become a thing very early in Clan history. The original push came during the Golden Century, the next big push was after WoR.
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TRO: Golden Century looks like it's back on track. Hopefully we'll finally get some information on some long known, but missing, 'first produced' items.
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The Chaos Campaign Tukayyid book currently has a badass cover depicting a Nova Cat Warhawk rising out of what I assume is Lake Losiije.
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The Chaos Campaign Tukayyid book currently has a badass cover depicting a Nova Cat Warhawk rising out of what I assume is Lake Losiije.
I think I might see a future avatar image in it i think it looks awesome
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Hey, guess which zombie cat girls made an appearance in the latest IlClan Recognition Guide?
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Oh? Do tell.
*eyes thread*
Shadow Cat III is it? I'm assuming that's the DA version with the stylized cockpit?
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Oh? Do tell.
*eyes thread*
Shadow Cat III is it? I'm assuming that's the DA version with the stylized cockpit?
Yep, Shadow Cat III is the DA sculpt, basically the original with a facelift. Its notable pilot is Dot "Patches" Nostra and gives her fate.
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Just bought the Recognition Guide the Shadow Cat III's whole entry tells the story of the sorry state of the Nova Cats after the Second Combine/Dominion War. :'(
I hope the ilClan brings hell down on the Combine and permanently end the Kurita line.
To be fair I've wanted it for a long time to see the ilClan truly dominate the Inner Sphere and bring a new Golden Age. I'll happily see all the Succession States subjugated. I'd love it if Alaric offers the surviving Nova Cats the final blow against the Combine to earn the Clan Protectorate's support. If it's the Falcons though the last remnants of our Clan will die given what the Shadow Cat III's write up says about Falcon feelings towards the Nova Cats.
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Yep, Shadow Cat III is the DA sculpt, basically the original with a facelift. Its notable pilot is Dot "Patches" Nostra and gives her fate.
Second pilot is Matt Lossey, another MWDA pilot.
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Second pilot is Matt Lossey, another MWDA pilot.
Was he a lousy pilot? (runs)
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Second pilot is Matt Lossey, another MWDA pilot.
Did he die in the rebellion or make it to the Protectorate?
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Did he die in the rebellion or make it to the Protectorate?
Not sure, but the entry refers to him in the past tense.
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When in doubt, head canon that he's led a scrappy band of survivors and they've met up with Kisho's herd. Together plans are being formulated to TP the coordinator's residence then release a Word of Blake derived virus that targets those of Kurita lineage not descended from Minoru. It could totally be true until confirmed otherwise.
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Well if he is dead that's a shame, he had a great pilot card in the MechWarrior clix game.
The Nova Cats I want to see surviving in the Clan Protectorate the most are;
Kisho Nova Cat (Duh)
Angus Drummond (Dude was cool in clix)
Marat Deleportas (Pulled him in a booster draft, great mech)
Liz Nostra
Dot Patches Nostra
Maria Devalis
These are all clix pieces by the way. Glad they are still appearing here and there in the new products.
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Well if he is dead that's a shame, he had a great pilot card in the MechWarrior clix game.
The Nova Cats I want to see surviving in the Clan Protectorate the most are;
Kisho Nova Cat (Duh)
Angus Drummond (Dude was cool in clix)
Marat Deleportas (Pulled him in a booster draft, great mech)
Liz Nostra
Dot Patches Nostra
Maria Devalis
These are all clix pieces by the way. Glad they are still appearing here and there in the new products.
Sadly, "Patches" didn't make it, though it sounds like she was amongst the last to go down.
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Sadly, "Patches" didn't make it, though it sounds like she was amongst the last to go down.
Dang, was that in the Clan 3145 TRO?
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Hey, so I thought this thread might be interested in this, but I run a clickytech facebook page for players in Ohio and Maryland, and I like to take pictures of our battles. While it is not BattleTech, there are tons of albums of battles with Clan Nova Cat/Spirit Cat forces, usually trouncing their opponents. 8)
Thought some of you guys and gals might be interested in that. Oodles of Nova Cat mechs in them.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/81449274975/photos/
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Thats quite a selection
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Dang, was that in the Clan 3145 TRO?
Nope. Rec Guide ilClan Vol.3. Second notable pilot entry for the Shadow Cat III.
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That's a fine Spirit Cat touman.
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Nice surprise on the BT FB page from TRO Golden Century.
https://www.facebook.com/19541048147/posts/10157451177908148/ (https://www.facebook.com/19541048147/posts/10157451177908148/)
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It's very... distinctive looking.
No idea how much it weighs or what it's armed with, but hey! We have that much
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The first Nova Cat Mech looks great
To me its around 60-70 tons the legs look very Nova Cat Omni
Maybe a gauss rifle or autocannon with four lasers on arm its maybe a particle cannon due to lack of venting while its two shoulder lasers and three small lasers on battle arm maybe machine guns given the gap in armour to eject casings
For those without Facebook I attached the image
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To repeat my comments from the comic soon thread:
I always assumed it was an ER Laser test bed, so was guessing ERLL in the arm, 2 ERMLs in the shoulder, and 3 ERSLs in the other arm. It was extinct by the time of the invasion, (and SUPER extinct now, most likely) so I would guess most of it is standard tech. Maybe DHS if they're feeling generous.
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I'm guessing double heats are definitely in use its an early Clan Mech with Star League goodness before that
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The Clan might be dead but its influence continues even in new products.
We get a mention in the new Spotlight on Thermo Police a Nova Cat descendant serves alongside them
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How much of a Nova Cat is he still, though?
Summary for someone who doesnt have it?
Back to the Vision Quest: From other spoilers, looks to be a Gauss Rifle, 2 ERLL, and a brace of SPL. And 12 DHS so...not to bad. Not sure why it died out.
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How much of a Nova Cat is he still, though?
Summary for someone who doesnt have it?
Virtually not at all to be honest, in name and in blood only he was born in 3010 so by current timeline likely gone. He was a freeborn son of members of the Clan's Intelser which was the precursor to the Dragoons mission.
Given how little Intelser is mentioned it's a nice mention and another link to the Nova Cat's past and their actions with the Clans.
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How much of a Nova Cat is he still, though?
Summary for someone who doesnt have it?
Back to the Vision Quest: From other spoilers, looks to be a Gauss Rifle, 2 ERLL, and a brace of SPL. And 12 DHS so...not to bad. Not sure why it died out.
I suspect the devil will be in the details.
Maybe rise of the OmniMech maybe a factor. Maybe it's speed isn't good enough. Maybe it has design quirks like weak superstructure or the MechWarrior's built in potty backs up too much no one wants to be piloting that thing.
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You guys have seen the CSO Diorama for this year on Facebook, yes? Depicts part of the Nova Cat combat drop near Tost on Tukayyid, and looks damned good. Personally I feel they missed an opportunity to depict the Jaguar Grenadiers' charge down the Dinju Pass, but I'm somewhat partial. :D
Like the Jaguars, the Cats are still alive in well in this Clan Invasion Kickstarter period we find ourselves in. :thumbsup:
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The mini battle and DropShip look great
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Paladin Tyrina Drummond is mentioned in Rock of the Republic, so we can assume there's probably some Nova Cat enclaves still in Fortress Republic.
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Paladin Tyrina Drummond is mentioned in Rock of the Republic, so we can assume there's probably some Nova Cat enclaves still in Fortress Republic.
I think Tyrina Drummond was one of the original or second generation Paladins she's been around for a few books I think so is hardcore Republic.
From TRO Golden Century the Vision Quest is a nice Mech even if the last one has a sad end... running theme among Nova Cat Mechs unfortunately.
Fortunately the Nova Cats/Clan Protectorate gets a decent mention in the reintroduced Lupus OmniMech too
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And a whole heavy aerospace fighter.
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And a whole heavy aerospace fighter.
;D I hadn't forgotten about that decent bird nice art too
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I asked Blaine Lee Pardoe if Tyrina Drummond being named-dropped in Rock of the Republic was just needing a random Paladin or if it was a sign of things to come, his response;
"Tyrina will be back"
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Finally had a chance to go over TRO Golden Century. I do like the looks of the Qasar, but did we need an 80 ton Visigoth with less fuel? It's like the aerospace equivalent of a Charger.
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Predates the Visigoth.
Yes it is like a Charger, though a Gargoyle is a closer comparison.
It needs a reason for extinction. Would you rather functional but grossly inefficient, or it has bloody single heatsinks?
Most variants can deliver 50-60 points of damage without wincing on the heat scale too badly. That does counter the light armor a bit.
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If you had the fighters that can dogfight and distract the Qaser would make a decent anti-ship/strike craft fly in cause a lot of damage on target then bug out to refuel
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Just throwing this out there, but I recently compiled all the old Dark Age fiction stories that were on the now-defunct Wizkids website in one handy-dandy PDF. I post in this thread about it because several of these short stories feature Spirit Cat characters. When I say short however, I mean what I say, some of them are only a few pages at most.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=70451.msg1638415#new
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If you had the fighters that can dogfight and distract the Qaser would make a decent anti-ship/strike craft fly in cause a lot of damage on target then bug out to refuel
That's thanks more to clan weapon efficiencies though. Wish we refittted it a bit when we brought it back into production. Not sure how I'd improve it while keeping it's Qasar'ness, though. Swap in Ferro Aluminum?
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Check the Kublai.
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Without just copy/pasting the DCs variant, I mean.
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I asked Blaine Lee Pardoe if Tyrina Drummond being named-dropped in Rock of the Republic was just needing a random Paladin or if it was a sign of things to come, his response;
"Tyrina will be back"
Well since Devlin returned, she pestering him daily apparently.
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The vision quest is gorgeous. David White strikes again.
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Gorgeous, but a pain in the arse for me to draw
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The vision quest is gorgeous. David White strikes again.
I do miss the lack of a "like" button right now.
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The Nova Cats did not make use of ProtoMechs, right? Outside some initial testing?
Just thinking that with their post-Jihad resource shortage, ProtoMechs would've made sense for them...
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The Nova Cats did not make use of ProtoMechs, right? Outside some initial testing?
Just thinking that with their post-Jihad resource shortage, ProtoMechs would've made sense for them...
I think their resource shortage may have also been in Warriors particularly Trueborn Aerospace. The Jihad wasn't kind to anything but definitely harsh on the Spaceborne Forces
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The Nova Cats did not make use of ProtoMechs, right? Outside some initial testing?
Just thinking that with their post-Jihad resource shortage, ProtoMechs would've made sense for them...
The only Clan that currently seems to make extensive use of ProtoMechs appears to be the Ravens. Other Clans...notably the Horses...use them to a lesser degree, but their use appears to be declining even amongst the Ravens.
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TRO Prototypes has the Satyr-XP, a Nova Cat ProtoMech. Much of the entry discusses the few ProtoMechs in the Nova Cat ranks. Here's a selection from the beginning
When Clan Nova Cat found itself cast out of the Homeworlds, it found its nascent ProtoMech program cut off at its proverbial knees. What few production models existed straggled their way to the Nova Cats’ new home in the Draconis Combine’s Irece Prefecture. Combat loss and time whittled down the surviving ProtoMechs that to barely a Trinary.
While the Nova Cats had the capability to revamp production on Irece to build new models, Khan Santin West believed it a waste of the Clan’s resources. Because ProtoMech pilots came exclusively from the aerospace Phenotype, and required major surgery to implant the necessary enhanced imaging tattoos, the Nova Cats were loathe to strip their already-depleted aerospace cadres to pilot these specialty ground units.
As such, the few Satyr ProtoMechs possessed by the Nova Cats—which made up the bulk of the Clan’s ProtoMech arsenal—were restricted to insertion and reconnaissance roles, often used in raids over the shared border with Clan Ghost Bear. Because the Clan Council did not see the program as a viable avenue of weaponry, ProtoMech pilots were volunteers only, usually those aerospace pilots deemed too old for active duty or those injured in combat or training exercises.
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Eeesh, talk about slam against the ProtoMech concept.
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... I'm not sure i've ever looked at TRO Prototypes entry on the Satyr. And i like the TRO. Guess i need to get around reading every single entry.
Right. I guess the Nova Cats had a point there. Presumably if they had had more personnel available, things could've been different. I guess the Smoke Jaguars were more strapped for material resources than personnel when they created ProtoMechs.
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From what i read, Protomechs didn't do good sales for the game. So their being phased out. The Hell's Horses are only ones we know of that use them in the Inner Sphere.
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From what i read, Protomechs didn't do good sales for the game. So their being phased out. The Hell's Horses are only ones we know of that use them in the Inner Sphere.
Horses and Ravens.
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Horses and Ravens.
Ravens appear to be the primary users, but the units appear to be in decline in both Clans
All other IS Clans have, at best, a token presence.
In the Homeworlds...their association with the Jaguars and Spirits and Society probably led to them being seen as "tainted" and although the Coyotes made use of them, they don't seem to have a future in the Homeworlds either.
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I wouldn't read too much into that section about the game and Protos overall. This is more about the author explaining why they didn't work for the Nova Cats. The Nova Cats who were short on most resources, warriors & combat units included.
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I wouldn't read too much into that section about the game and Protos overall. This is more about the author explaining why they didn't work for the Nova Cats. The Nova Cats who were short on most resources, warriors & combat units included.
I'm not, but Era Report 3145 states that only the Ravens and Horses (in the IS) maintain Protos after 3101 and the WoR Supplemental states the Coyotes have abandoned theirs entirely, albeit partly at the insistence of other Clans.
The use of ProtoMechs looks to be in perpetual decline, though there is a chance of recovery.
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The use of ProtoMechs looks to be in perpetual decline, though there is a chance of recovery.
They need make tech achievement that doesn't cause insanity or mental decline.
Or at least to use PAL armor as a replacement for the implants.
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Aren't the ultra heavy Protomechs piloted by pilots who have to wear a form of PAL (like the Machina Domini) to pilot the frigging thing? And I think they still need the neural interface. And it seems as if only Clan Cloud Cobra has the special phenotype which was perfected by Clan Blood Spirit to create "real" Protomech pilots. Or have all Homeworld Clans abandoned the Protomech? the War of Reaving only stated that Clan Cloud Cobra was staffing their Clusters with Protomechs because they are cheaper to produce in regards to material
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Aren't the ultra heavy Protomechs piloted by pilots who have to wear a form of PAL (like the Machina Domini) to pilot the frigging thing? And I think they still need the neural interface. And it seems as if only Clan Cloud Cobra has the special phenotype which was perfected by Clan Blood Spirit to create "real" Protomech pilots. Or have all Homeworld Clans abandoned the Protomech? the War of Reaving only stated that Clan Cloud Cobra was staffing their Clusters with Protomechs because they are cheaper to produce in regards to material
I thought so too, but there was talk that it wasn't the case. They were getting the surgery anyways. (shrugs)
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They need make tech achievement that doesn't cause insanity or mental decline.
Not really an issue for the Clans. It's an idiotic restriction, but one that isn't an issue for the Clans.
Or at least to use PAL armor as a replacement for the implants.
The they wouldn't fit in the cokcpit.
What they need is
1 - new art. The monster theme didn't go down too well
2 - a revamped ruleset
3 - a niche. Right now, they are in a poor place...BA is so powered up that they are better than many Protos. Light vehicles squeeze them from the upper end. There isn't really any niche in the game for them.
Protos aren't good, they aren't bad - they're just meh and other units often do the same job much better. I don't really think there is any easy way to fix them or make them more popular.
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1 - new art. The monster theme didn't go down too well
2 - a revamped ruleset
3 - a niche. Right now, they are in a poor place...BA is so powered up that they are better than many Protos. Light vehicles squeeze them from the upper end. There isn't really any niche in the game for them.
1 Ew no. They'd end up just being turned into generic mechanical tank-like things, probably, like most of the Society ProtoMechs are. Improving current art an designs, that's OK, redesigning not. TROPrototypes art for the Procyon Quad, Minotaur P2 and Svartalfa is pretty good, animalistic and monstrous. The Hobgoblin, Sprite, Boggart and Satyr-XP are good examples of what the ProtoMechs should not be.
3 I would argue they make more sense for the Clans than vehicles do. Individual warriors, low resource cost, supporting roles, yet sufficiently mobile to keep up with 'Mechs without needing additional transport (unlike Battle Armor).
2 I suppose the ruleset could be adjusted to allow them to take roles of vehicles better at certain things.
Also they should be more available. As it is, by the Dark Age, only the Hell's Horses and Ravens use them, and neither is among the most played Clans. Kinda hard to play units that aren't available. Yes yes, "whatever works in your table" and "it is BT, salvage" always apply, but for anyone who likes sticking to canon closely, those aren't really options.
I play Wolves, Falcons and Nova Cats. Of these, basically only the Nova Cats use ProtoMechs, but only early on and with rather pitiful selection. Very disappointing.
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1 Ew no. They'd end up just being turned into generic mechanical tank-like things, probably, like most of the Society ProtoMechs are. Improving current art an designs, that's OK, redesigning not. TROPrototypes art for the Procyon Quad, Minotaur P2 and Svartalfa is pretty good, animalistic and monstrous. The Hobgoblin, Sprite, Boggart and Satyr-XP are good examples of what the ProtoMechs should not be.
3 I would argue they make more sense for the Clans than vehicles do. Individual warriors, low resource cost, supporting roles, yet sufficiently mobile to keep up with 'Mechs without needing additional transport (unlike Battle Armor).
2 I suppose the ruleset could be adjusted to allow them to take roles of vehicles better at certain things.
Also they should be more available. As it is, by the Dark Age, only the Hell's Horses and Ravens use them, and neither is among the most played Clans. Kinda hard to play units that aren't available. Yes yes, "whatever works in your table" and "it is BT, salvage" always apply, but for anyone who likes sticking to canon closely, those aren't really options.
I play Wolves, Falcons and Nova Cats. Of these, basically only the Nova Cats use ProtoMechs, but only early on and with rather pitiful selection. Very disappointing.
They are "unavailable" because they didn't catch on with the players.
They didn't catch on with the players because the artwork style wasn't popular...because they don't have a niche or purpose in game...because the ruleset is a bit bland.
But CGL are a bit hemmed in here. For example, one of the issues is that BA and infantry are more effective than they should be. But that means you have BA that is better than many lightweight Protos. CGL are unlikely to address this issue by depowering BA so that removes a lot of the utility for lightweight Protos.
The art is subjective, but while distinctive, it never took off. Personally, I love the Minotaur and Roc and the Centaur and Satyr are OK but the rest are meh.
And so on. Overall, none of the issues...by themselves...are truly major. But it's when you put them together that you get players that are unexcited.
As it is....the IS Clans basically drop them by 3100, the Cats a lot earlier and they are fading from the Ravens and Horsemen. I can't think of any viable way to "save" them.
What you'd need is to depower infantry and BA to open up space and functionality for Protos. Not gonna happen.
New art? Might work...but probably not enough by itself.
New ProtoMech rules? The original ruleset apparently had them as a lot tougher but they were toned down in playtesting. Too tough however and they start crowding out Mechs the same way Protos are crowded out by BA.
A new gimmick? You have players who love Protos, but most players seem to find them unexciting and rather dull. Pedestrian. Generic. Workable but with a low cool factor. Would a gimmick of some sort give them a niche, give them that WoW factor?
How about ProtoLAMs? If the Ravens adapted LAM technology to Protos, would that work? Or ProtoQVs from the Horsemen? Something else?
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Did the Nova Cats in the Republic of the Sphere have separate khans from the Nova Cats in Irece Prefecture? Were the RotS Cats considered abjured by the other Cats?
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Did the Nova Cats in the Republic of the Sphere have separate khans from the Nova Cats in Irece Prefecture? Were the RotS Cats considered abjured by the other Cats?
Clanners in the RotS were basically immigrants, no longer part of their original Clans. At least, that's as i've understood/recall things.
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Did the Nova Cats in the Republic of the Sphere have separate khans from the Nova Cats in Irece Prefecture? Were the RotS Cats considered abjured by the other Cats?
They did not. They were led by a Galaxy Commander, and a Vision Master.
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If there were any, their dead or on the run. Say what you will about the visions of Kev Rosse , but he was right about finding save haven for his people. Anyone in Republic would been squashed by the Combine.
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Or literally squashed by the Wolves as Paladin Tyrina Drummond was.
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Did the Nova Cats in the Republic of the Sphere have separate khans from the Nova Cats in Irece Prefecture? Were the RotS Cats considered abjured by the other Cats?
As said by others they were led by a Galaxy Commander who was also a Republic Senator while their enclaves are described as "Nova Cat" settlements
They were definitely separate but not Abjured I got the distinct impression that there was quite a bit of travel back and forth before the Dark Age
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If there were any, their dead or on the run. Say what you will about the visions of Kev Rosse , but he was right about finding save haven for his people. Anyone in Republic would been squashed by the Combine.
Not all Cats enclaves are located in the worlds occupied by Kurita. For example, one of the worlds departed to Davion had a planetary legate ( New Rhodes III ) with the bloodname Keating.
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If there were any, their dead or on the run. Say what you will about the visions of Kev Rosse , but he was right about finding save haven for his people. Anyone in Republic would been squashed by the Combine.
The good news for them is they'd have time to take in what happened in the Combine and to work to try and escape to the Clan Protectorate.
Did the Nova Cats in the Republic of the Sphere have separate khans from the Nova Cats in Irece Prefecture? Were the RotS Cats considered abjured by the other Cats?
The Nova Cats as a whole were considered abjured by the clans. Didn't matter if they were in the Combine or the Republic.
Or literally squashed by the Wolves as Paladin Tyrina Drummond was.
too soon. :'(
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Looking at the fluff for Dagda for reasons, I spotted something. The world would be utterly unlivable or barely habitable because its a Super Earth and has 2g of gravity.
Even with the futuristic construction materials, that's gonna be hellish, and Mechs would be useless because congrats your Dire Wolf now weights 200 tons and all its actuators just exploded.
I assume we can politely ignore this fluff and maybe make it slightly higher but not 2G?
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Have we heard anything new on what's going on with the surviving Nova Cats and the Spirit Cats?
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I suspect we'll see more of that with Empire Alone
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Looking at the fluff for Dagda for reasons, I spotted something. The world would be utterly unlivable or barely habitable because its a Super Earth and has 2g of gravity.
Even with the futuristic construction materials, that's gonna be hellish, and Mechs would be useless because congrats your Dire Wolf now weights 200 tons and all its actuators just exploded.
I assume we can politely ignore this fluff and maybe make it slightly higher but not 2G?
Yeah, I was reading recently that Barcella too was 1.5g, and thought, Nova Cats must be ripped if that's the case! So I suspect you are right, there's no way that Dagda can be 2g. Slightly more than 1g, maybe, but not 2g.
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Not all Cats enclaves are located in the worlds occupied by Kurita. For example, one of the worlds departed to Davion had a planetary legate ( New Rhodes III ) with the bloodname Keating.
I've been thinking about this recently while looking at some of the maps of the Deep Periphery (not Coreward towards Clan space, but Spinward out from the Combine). There are a large number of planets, even old Star League outposts out that way, and I've wondered if any of the Cats hid there?
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I've been thinking about this recently while looking at some of the maps of the Deep Periphery (not Coreward towards Clan space, but Spinward out from the Combine). There are a large number of planets, even old Star League outposts out that way, and I've wondered if any of the Cats hid there?
Just Wolverines out there, nothing to see, move along.
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Just Wolverines out there, nothing to see, move along.
;D
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Just Wolverines out there, nothing to see, move along.
If they did they would be descendants not trueborn.
Remember, that most of their technology and other things were lost when the combined finally decided to pull war crimes on them.
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If they did they would be descendants not trueborn.
Remember, that most of their technology and other things were lost when the combined finally decided to pull war crimes on them.
True, although, it wasn't until 2819 that the iron womb became dominant, and the Wolverines left in 2823, so the first trueborn would have only been 4 years old (maximum 7) at the time Clan Wolverine left Clanspace, and Wolverine wouldn't have really known about trueborn. I imagine that much of Wolverine technology, minus the ER PPC, would have been SLDF, or whatever they traded from other allied Clans (the Nova Cats - the only Clan to have defended them - developed the ER Large Laser in '23, so maybe they also had ER LL?).
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That would suggested the desperate survivors would know exactly where the Wolverines last holdings were. We have not seen any sign of survivors smarty leaving the Inner Sphere, such as the Spirit Cats.
The Cats themselves are in the Clan Protectorate in Marik space. Only think I'm unsure of if Clan Sea Fox helped them setup Iron Wombs for themselves.
I thought I read something like that somewhere, but refugees of Clan Nova Cat are part of the Protectorate.
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Wrangler, I think they said when the Spirit Cats joined the Clan Protectorate in the Free Worlds League they sent a call out to any surviving Nova Cats that they were welcome to join up there. I forget the source for that though....
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Wrangler, I think they said when the Spirit Cats joined the Clan Protectorate in the Free Worlds League they sent a call out to any surviving Nova Cats that they were welcome to join up there. I forget the source for that though....
Pretty sure it was FM 3145, when referencing the creation of the 1st Nova Cat Provisionals.
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Wrangler, I think they said when the Spirit Cats joined the Clan Protectorate in the Free Worlds League they sent a call out to any surviving Nova Cats that they were welcome to join up there. I forget the source for that though....
Era report 3145.
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I'm still building my pre-Abjuration Nova Cats and have been wondering something. Would the Nova Cat Keshik, as part of the Alpha Galaxy, use a) the same camo scheme as Alpha, b) a modified Alpha camo scheme, or c) something completely unique and different?
As the "honor guard" for the Khan, it would seem like either a) or b). I can't really see the Keshik as using the standard Nova Cat camo, and given that they are a part of Alpha, it seems like maybe it would be either the same as Alpha or the Alpha scheme with some unique elements to make it identifiable as the Keshik.
Thoughts?
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I would lean towards B, personally. Not something so different that any layman could tell them apart from the standard scheme, yet different enough to distinguish them as members of the elite among their own Warriors. Some variant CNC Alpha schemes I've considered include black with the blue stream of stars replaced by purple, the standard scheme with red stars, and a flipped scheme of blue with a black stream of stars on the CT.
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I would lean towards B, personally. Not something so different that any layman could tell them apart from the standard scheme, yet different enough to distinguish them as members of the elite among their own Warriors. Some variant CNC Alpha schemes I've considered include black with the blue stream of stars replaced by purple, the standard scheme with red stars, and a flipped scheme of blue with a black stream of stars on the CT.
Oh, I like this a lot. Still the same color palette, but slightly different enough so that those who know, know. Plus, purple as the color of royalty fits nicely for the Khan's guard. I've always imagined the Cats as more reserved among the clans - given their voting and record. But also given their bent towards mysticism (and [failed] desire to become ilClan), maybe purple is a good solution. Thanks!
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I just realized that every time I see the image of SaKhan Lucian Carns (especially on Sarna), I hear the voice of actor Lance Reddick, and now I *really* want to see Lance Reddick playing him in a Clan Invasion film/video game! Not sure who they would cast as Khan Severen Leroux
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Matt Broderick...I mean, have you SEEN Severen's original art?
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Matt Broderick...I mean, have you SEEN Severen's original art?
Oh totally! The I<3NYC mug from Luthien?!? ;D
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Looking at the fluff for Dagda for reasons, I spotted something. The world would be utterly unlivable or barely habitable because its a Super Earth and has 2g of gravity.
Even with the futuristic construction materials, that's gonna be hellish, and Mechs would be useless because congrats your Dire Wolf now weights 200 tons and all its actuators just exploded.
I assume we can politely ignore this fluff and maybe make it slightly higher but not 2G?
Just curious where you've seen this. I checked Operation Klondike, Wars of Reaving, and The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky, and they all say 1.1 G
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Just curious where you've seen this. I checked Operation Klondike, Wars of Reaving, and The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky, and they all say 1.1 G
Sarna has Dagda (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dagda_(Clan_System)) listed as 2.0, although you are right, when I cross reference to Warriors of Kerensky (p. 112), and Wars of Reaving (p. 232) Dagda is listed as 1.1 in both. Which leads me to believe it was a typo on Sarna and should be listed as 1.1.
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Hmm... interesting. Operation Klondike has the line for moons listed right above the gravity line and there Dagda has 2 moons. Maybe that's where the typo came from.
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Oh totally! The I<3NYC mug from Luthien?!? ;D
That's the one. My head canon is that was from his younger days and he started shaving the head later down the line. But then, his history is a bit all over the place with some blatant contradictions.
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That's the one. My head canon is that was from his younger days and he started shaving the head later down the line. But then, his history is a bit all over the place with some blatant contradictions.
Yeah, that's my sense too. There's also no way that the image in the Luthien sourcebook was him at that age. According to Era Report 3052, both he and Carns were born in 2978, in which case they were both 74 during the battle of Luthien. But my head cannon also says that he was a bit of a maverick when he was younger, and becoming more measured. As far as I know the only Clan leadership ever older than the two of them was Natasha Kerensky at 77, but Nova Cats have always done things their own way. >:D
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What was Clan Nova Cat up to between 3052 and 3059?
I get they were used as a Not Smoke Jaguar Clan for Draconis Combine focused novels, but anything more specific? If you aren't reading the novels it feels like going from licking wounds after Tukayyid to joining Bulldog.
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Even the novels don't mention a whole lot. The novel D.R.T. is set in 3057 and a good deal of the book takes place in the Nova Cat occupation zone, and follows the actions of the 46 Nova Cat Cavaliers as they try to bring online some manufacturing facilities.
In Grave Covenant, which is set in 3059, in a conversation between Theodore Kurita and Focht, Kurita mentions that the DC has been in talks with the Cats for two years, and that numerous of the Nova Cat visions have aligned with holovids of the re-founding of the Star League. Khan Leroux is also the first to second the nomination of Lincoln Osis as ilKhan, but then in a masterful display in the Hall of Khans, later manages to completely maneuver Osis into looking like a manipulative jerk.
There's also an amazing scene with a Nova Cat Star Colonel who predicts a coin toss by calling the coin landing on its edge (which it does), because it had been foreseen.
So, while there isn't a whole lot, I think the implication is that the Cats knew that they were probably going to go over to the new SLDF and that they had both been watching the signs and prepping for that. This also, at least for me, explains how they were able to move most of their Clan to the IS before the official Abjuration.
The short answer to your question seems to be that they were rebuilding and preparing to return to the Inner Sphere.
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Wasn't there also a mention that they had a somewhat tense relationship with their neighbours the Smoke Jaguars (similar to how the Vipers and Falcons acted towards each other) but somehow managed to work together?
Though there is no mention on how they treated their captured civilians though they had to deal with partisan attacks as well as raiding parties from the DCMS
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Wasn't there also a mention that they had a somewhat tense relationship with their neighbours the Smoke Jaguars (similar to how the Vipers and Falcons acted towards each other) but somehow managed to work together?
Though there is no mention on how they treated their captured civilians though they had to deal with partisan attacks as well as raiding parties from the DCMS
If by somewhat tense you mean each absolutely loathed the idea of the other drawing breath, then absolutely. That cooperation was the (almost certainly grudging) agreement to simply hand over worlds in the SJOZ for the Nova Cats to base from until they took worlds for themselves, to avoid wasting resources Trialing for each and every one as the Vipers had to against the Falcons. The Cats, very coincidentally, were given the most rebellious of the systems already taken in the invasion.
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Wasn't there also a mention that they had a somewhat tense relationship with their neighbours the Smoke Jaguars (similar to how the Vipers and Falcons acted towards each other) but somehow managed to work together?
Though there is no mention on how they treated their captured civilians though they had to deal with partisan attacks as well as raiding parties from the DCMS
Heh, yeah, have to agree with Crimson Dynamo's great comment. The Cats and Jags loath each other, and have for over a century, despite once being very close. I wouldn't say they managed to work together at all. They were constantly raiding each other and doing everything they could to throw each other under the proverbial bus/Dire Wolf. Khan Osis had a personal mission to destroy the Nova Cats (admittedly, Khan Leroux was constantly baiting him).
I doubt the Cats were raiding the DCMS much, given that they were already in negotiations with them. It is mentioned that the Cats were generally very good to their civilian populations (they shared similar ideas to the Not-Named-Clan), both in the home worlds and in the IS.
What isn't mentioned much is their change from Crusader to Warden after Tukayyid or what impact this had on the Cats. The Cats have always been considered different by the other Clans, so it's hard to say.
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The Crusader aspect was always more of a 'We can make more money off this' push stemming from the Merchant caste (reminder that the Nova Cat Merchants were pretty high up there in the social order in the Nova Cats, if not as important as the Diamond Sharks were in their clan). A bit of a mute point now that they're part of said market.
Not that it worked out in the long term.
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Not that it worked out in the long term.
Well then stop poking the Bear!
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For things to work out in the long term you have to survive the short term. No shame in that.
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Well then stop poking the Bear!
The Bear having a genocidal temper tantrum after simple raiding didnt help, no.
But it was more believing in the DC that led to the Nova Cat's long term survival issues. Especially since the Nova Cats look to have been operating in good faith for most of it. But nope, thrown under the bus once it was convenient to the leadership.
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When's the Merchant stake in things come up, again? Mostly I recall the Cats being pretty Warden-y until the Outbound Light scare tactics as well as a number of particularly wacky visions.
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When's the Merchant stake in things come up, again? Mostly I recall the Cats being pretty Warden-y until the Outbound Light scare tactics as well as a number of particularly wacky visions.
Yeah, although, that said, I think the wacky visions from Oathmaster Winters were actually discouraging the Cats from invading, but Khans Leroux and Carns thought that the Cats should be at the vanguard in order to win ilClan, or at least deny the Jags from attaining the ilClan which Khan (Leo) Showers wanted so badly. Still, most of the sourcebooks seem to imply that of all the Crusader clans, the Cats were closer to being Wardens along the political spectrum, even before Tukayyid.
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First paragraph of Invading Clans.
Other Clans often point to the fact that Clan Nova Cat was
the only Clan forged by a member of the Exodus who did not
belong to the Star League Defense Force to explain that Clan's
unconventional nature and sometimes disturbing customs. The
freedom they allow their merchant caste, their emphasis and
reliance on innovative economic measures,
Some early leaders were heavily involved in the merchant caste. The early PTB seemed to have limited knowledge of economics, so relied on buzzwords. So where the Falcons got "banking" the Nova Cats got "futures trading". After the Wolves became noble colonisers you get the feeling the writers became desperate to explain how other Clans made their coin without repeating themselves.
Another interesting source is the Carack. Some bright spark mentioned the Cats had hundreds of ships in their fleet. Right at the time fleets were being codified as much smaller affairs. So the Carack (Merchant) exists to soak up those numbers in a totally non combat format and show off the merchant's power.
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First paragraph of Invading Clans.
Some early leaders were heavily involved in the merchant caste. The early PTB seemed to have limited knowledge of economics, so relied on buzzwords. So where the Falcons got "banking" the Nova Cats got "futures trading". After the Wolves became noble colonisers you get the feeling the writers became desperate to explain how other Clans made their coin without repeating themselves.
Another interesting source is the Carack. Some bright spark mentioned the Cats had hundreds of ships in their fleet. Right at the time fleets were being codified as much smaller affairs. So the Carack (Merchant) exists to soak up those numbers in a totally non combat format and show off the merchant's power.
Heh. Now I am almost imagining the Cats as the Fremen of BattleTech, which almost seems right. >:D
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Jellico: I appreciate the breakdown (the Carack band-aid is new and interesting to me) but if I need to clarify I was asking about Istal's remark about the merchants pushing for the Nova Cats' dabbling in Crusading. I don't recall hearing about that like we did with Sennet's efforts in the IS during the Invasion for the Diamond Sharks, so I was curious in getting a source and checking it out myself if I have access to the material.
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Invading Clans again
By 2980, the Clans had chosen sides in the politically
charged issue of the promised return to the Inner Sphere. The
"Crusaders" called for an immediate invasion of the Successor
States, citing Kerensky's writings and The Remembrance to
prove that the time was ripe to re-establish the Star League.
Clan Nova Cat fell firmly into this camp, enthusiastically sup-
ported by their merchant caste, which stood ready to begin
exploiting new worlds at a moment's notice.
By establishing more amicable relations with the popula-
tions on their garrisoned worlds, Clan Nova Cat was able to
implement a supply system similar to that of Clan Wolf. They
established secure supply lines from the homeworlds to the
Inner Sphere, but made each Galaxy responsible for finding
additional supplies when they ran short. The Galaxy comman-
ders promptly turned over this task to the members of the mer-
chant caste who had accompanied the invasion force into the
Inner Sphere. Initially skeptical about the feasibility of scroung-
ing sufficient usable materiel from garrisoned worlds, the mer-
chant caste in turn struck a bargain with the technician caste to
draw on its members' expertise with jury-rigging repairs and
ammunition compatibility to determine what was worth collect-
ing. Though rumors occasionally surface that Nova Cat mer-
chants are taking advantage of this free-trade arrangement to
supply Clan equipment to rebels on worlds held jointly by Clan
Smoke Jaguar in an effort to weaken their Clan's rivals, these
remain no more than rumors.
Future references get built off there.
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Thanks much
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Had a sudden urge to create a mixed Nova Cat Trinary. Opted to cap available units to Second Combine-Ghost Bear war, so 3098 at most.
Currently thinking this, based on Nova Cat/IS Clan General Early Repbulic list on MUL and what i like. The vehicle Star will contain this Trinary's battle armor transports as i wasn't intending this unit to have any OmniMechs nor separate transport assets/Star. (All vehicles must be 50 tons or lighter, and i'm going by assumption that Clan vehicle Points always have vehicles of same type.)
Figure that this all should fit in a Union-C, assuming some cubicle conversions.
Unfortunately Nova Cats have real limited transport choices, generic APCs aside. Figured the Svantovit seems to be passable option as i don't really want to go for the generic types.
R10 Mechanized ICV would a better option as it is Omni and would allow reducing transport complement to two points. But it has no miniature yet and i'm a bit leery of XLFE vehicle.
Before you ask, no, during the Early Republic era and afterwards the Nova Cats don't have access to Anhurs or Karnov URs.
I'm not sure what other vehicles to use. Also rather uncertain if i want four vehicles of one type or two vehicles of different types. Primary options i've been considering are the SM1 Tank Destroyer, Joust Medium Tank and Balac Strike VTOL. The Chevalier tank, Striker and Donar VTOL are secondary options.
The SM1 would be natural fit as it is a Nova Cat design and hover type would fit nicely with the Svantovits. But they're a bit expensive in BV.
The Joust is slower but could work as sort of light anvil in the Trinary.
The Balac Strike VTOL is cool and would work nicely as a recon asset but something about it makes me uncertain.
Not 100% on the Void though i feel it is thematically very fitting. Rabids, Thunderbirds and Voids would be fully Nova Cat Battle Armor types, rather than anything "generic". A Point of Gnomes could be an option, but at the same time it feels that if i want a "BA anvil", i need more than a point.
Alpha Star:
Ocelot
Arbalest
Black Hawk (Standard)
Koshi (Standard)
Mad Cat III
Beta Star:
Clan Medium Battle Armor "Rabid"
Clan Medium Battle Armor "Rabid"
Thunderbird (Upgrade)
Thunderbird (Upgrade)
Void (Nova Cat)
Gamma Star:
2xSvantovit?
2xSvantovit?
2xSvantovit?
2x???
2x???
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I'd have paired Shoden's, SM1s and Jousts keep 2 pairs of transporta for the Thunderbirds
Edit reread your rules nothing over 50 for vehicles
One of the last points of Nova Cat ProtoMechs?
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Yeah, vehicles should fit in a light vehicle bay. Though i may relax this. Figure it may be doable, though given the general trend for speed, i'm inclined to keep vehicles speedy as well, and that would mean lighter vehicles anyway.
Also since there's no Omnis, i figure i need 3 Points of transports for all the BA, as each one can move one Point of BA (really disappointing there's no 10t or 15t capacity transports available R10 ICV aside). True, Voids and Clan Mediums have 4 jump range but that's not exactly fast.
Didn't actually think of ProtoMechs. Interesting idea, though given that the Nova Cats stop using them after the 2nd Combine-Ghost Bear war, i'm disinclined to include them. I'll consider it though.
I may need to reconsider those BA as well. So much easier to use them with OmniMechs rather than with lacking selection of transports. I didn't pick any OmniMechs as i figured this was to be a "lesser" Trinary, and i wanted to avoid any i've already got for a different unit.
I picked the 2nd Combine-Ghost Bear war as a cut-off as the other option would be the Nova Cat rebellion during the Dark Age (seriously, the Nova Cats don't do much between these two things). More units, also so many i like actually picking only some was difficult. Too many favorites.
I may end up overhauling this concept completely though.
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Have you considered Cizins? Fast, speedy, and also fits in a light vehicle bay. It was developed during the 2nd war so it should just meet your cutoff.
Also, keep in mind that CNC of this era would also be using DC equipment, so that opens up the APC field a bit. I'd consider using the Maxim II if you can justify it. A pair of them can fit the entire complement of battle armor
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Shadow Cat
Arctic Cheetah
Huntsman
Avalanche (just after)
Wendigo probably too late
Of the above you could use one as a COs Mech
Have you considered Cizins? Fast, speedy, and also fits in a light vehicle bay. It was developed during the 2nd war so it should just meet your cutoff.
Also, keep in mind that CNC of this era would also be using DC equipment, so that opens up the APC field a bit. I'd consider using the Maxim II if you can justify it. A pair of them can fit the entire complement of battle armor
The Cizin is a great shout
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The Cizin i considered but decided it was too high-end unit for what i was thinking. Not to mention expensive in BV. I mean, nothing exactly advanced. Come to think of this, the Thunderbirds may be too good for this unit!
I was going purely by Nova Cat and IS Clan General lists for transports, though i suppose i could expand to DC options. Won't hurt and plausible enough. As it is, i actually think the Nova Cat MUL list could use more stuff from the Draconis Combine.
I do however limit myself to units that have miniature available, there's not one for R10 ICV or Maxim II.
This is more of a in principle thing. I'm not hopeful IWM vehicle or BA miniature selection will get better anytime soon, however.
I actually have no intention of getting stuff for this anytime soon. I generally let projects sit for a while after initial plan, to see if i'm still interested in them later on. If i am, then i'll consider if and when i could get required minis.
(There's also currently some problems with some units i want being unavailable in Europe at all, not listed on store pages for reasons unknown. But i hope this will change.)
As for the suggested OmniMechs, the Arctic Cheetah is on "maybe" list, but i'm inclined to place it with my pure OmniMech unit as that has a slot open, really would like to toss the Grendel from it. The Huntsman i don't really like for no particular reason, and i already got the Shadow Cat in the OmniMech unit.
The Avalanche and Wendigo are Dark Age designs, and the Shadow Cat III is a Late Republic era unit, so none of them are options, unless i decide to make a Dark age era unit instead. Something i'm considering.
Various IICs, like the Jenner IIC, i'm waiting for the next KS adding them, and i have other plans for them already. Project Phoenix designs would be OK in principle, and something to consider.
Think i'll relax having just a pure Trinary, and attach 5x transports to the BA if i can't find bigger ones. 5 vehicles would be essentially a "half-Star", not really canon but i'm willing to bend things at times. This will give more freedom for the vehicle Star.
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I have a better idea. I'll make a Spirit Cats Trinary of this. And then maybe another Nova Cat one that's more high tech.
Combination of industrials, IS and Clan Tech. 'Mechs and other units from RotS and Nova Cats, plus industrial MODs.
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Looking for some cannon help, if there is any. Trying to track down which Mechs some of the better known leaders of the Cats used. Does anyone know of where it's mentioned what mech(s) Star Colonel Kothinur Gritas piloted?
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I dont believe it was ever brought up. Mostly just a name in the index.
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I dont believe it was ever brought up. Mostly just a name in the index.
Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. I've slowly been trying to track down all of the named Nova Cats and what mechs they pilot for my own touman. Thanks though!
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So, the recent Land of Dreams has two very brief mentions of Khan Philip Drummond and the Nova Cats (yaaay!). In it, its mentioned that Khan Drummond pilots a Thug, which, given the Cats propensity for long range snipping probably makes sense.
While its not mentioned, would folk think its safe to assume its probably the THG-11Eb, with ER PPCs used by the SLDF Royal Brigades? Seems like a founding Khan would get the pick of their mechs, right?
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Possibly, if they had enough of Royal Thugs available. While the early Clans were equipped with best equipment available, that doesn't mean everyone got the best possible thing.
Operation Klondike rules note that Khans, saKhans and Star Colonels can make any number up to D class modifications to their 'Mechs, so it wouldn't be impossible that Drummond drives a non-Royal Thug but modified with some advanced tech.
Widowmaker Khan Cal Jorgensson's customized Highlander was based on the HGN-732 model rather than the Royal, at least in 2834. Likewise, Colleen Schmitt's Highlander was -732 based though extensively modified.
For what it is worth (not a lot), both Thugs are found in the HOK RATs, though you're more likely to land on the Royal Thug than standard one.
EDIT Given that Nova Cats appear to like ER lasers, i wouldn't be surprised if Drummond's Thug was equipped with ER larges. No comment on whether it makes sense.
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Possibly, if they had enough of Royal Thugs available. While the early Clans were equipped with best equipment available, that doesn't mean everyone got the best possible thing.
Operation Klondike rules note that Khans, saKhans and Star Colonels can make any number up to D class modifications to their 'Mechs, so it wouldn't be impossible that Drummond drives a non-Royal Thug but modified with some advanced tech.
Widowmaker Khan Cal Jorgensson's customized Highlander was based on the HGN-732 model rather than the Royal, at least in 2834. Likewise, Colleen Schmitt's Highlander was -732 based though extensively modified.
For what it is worth (not a lot), both Thugs are found in the HOK RATs, though you're more likely to land on the Royal Thug than standard one.
EDIT Given that Nova Cats appear to like ER lasers, i wouldn't be surprised if Drummond's Thug was equipped with ER larges. No comment on whether it makes sense.
Awesome, and I love it! I had forgotten to reference Klondike, but you're right. And I think it would make more sense for Drummond to have ER Large Lasers. I was worried at first because of the time period, but Sarna confirms that the Hegemony had ER LL in 2620, so weellllllll before the Exodus. Thanks!
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There are variety of weapons available for the Clans during Operation Klondike, going by dates.
All Star League equipment (including Snub-nose PPC)
Improved PPC, Improved LL, Improved LPL, Improved LRM, Improved SRM, Clan Prototype Streak 4/6, CP LB-X ACs, CP Ultras, CP ERML and ERSL.
Interstellar Operations Alternate Eras has the rules for these if someone wonders. HOK covers the Clan prototype weapons.
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There are variety of weapons available for the Clans during Operation Klondike, going by dates.
All Star League equipment (including Snub-nose PPC)
Improved PPC, Improved LL, Improved LPL, Improved LRM, Improved SRM, Clan Prototype Streak 4/6, CP LB-X ACs, CP Ultras, CP ERML and ERSL.
Interstellar Operations Alternate Eras has the rules for these if someone wonders. HOK covers the Clan prototype weapons.
Thanks for bringing that up, and I think you have highlighted a discrepancy between HO:K and Alternate Eras. Page 156 of HOK says that only small and medium ER Laser prototypes were available, but not large. But the weird thing is that according to IO:Alternate Eras (pg 37) the prototypes for the small and medium were developed 2 years after Nova Cat had developed the prototype for the Large (in 2820, ostensibly under Drummond's direction).
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Thanks for bringing that up, and I think you have highlighted a discrepancy between HO:K and Alternate Eras. Page 156 of HOK says that only small and medium ER Laser prototypes were available, but not large. But the weird thing is that according to IO:Alternate Eras (pg 37) the prototypes for the small and medium were developed 2 years after Nova Cat had developed the prototype for the Large (in 2820, ostensibly under Drummond's direction).
Small and medium ER lasers should be Jade Falcon things i think? Improved Large Laser (not ER) is a Nova Cat thing per old IO tech table. I don't have the new version so i'm not sure about any changes between these editions.
EDIT Old IO gives follow dates:
RD, limited production, common dates respectively
Improved Large Laser Clan/E XDXX ~2812 (CNC) ~2815 (CNC) 2818
ER Large Laser [Clan] Clan/F XFDC ~2820 (CNC) 2825 (CNC) 2830
EDIT Operation Klondike data is old BTW, it implies Clan tech development took longer, and that there was a stage of their weapons when they were like IS versions fully (eg early Clan non-prototype UAC/20 has same stats as its 3060s IS equivalent), but this is dropped by IO.
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EDIT Operation Klondike data is old BTW, it implies Clan tech development took longer, and that there was a stage of their weapons when they were like IS versions fully (eg early Clan non-prototype UAC/20 has same stats as its 3060s IS equivalent), but this is dropped by IO.
Yeah, I think that's right, so it's probably safer to go with IO than HOK in terms of dates of development. In which case, as per your earlier suggestion, I think it would be safe to think that Drummond's Thug had a pair of prototype Clan ER large lasers in place of the standard PPCs by the time of Operation Klondike.
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a pair of prototype Clan ER large lasers in place of the standard PPCs by the time of Operation Klondike.
Wait, do those actually have stats? 'Cause judging by Klondike and old IO, Clans made prototype ER Smalls and Mediums, used IS ERLLs, and then jumped to Clan Tech ERLL. Or does new IO add one?
Post-Klondike, Nova Cats refitting mechs with ERLLs makes sense though.
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Wait, do those actually have stats? 'Cause judging by Klondike and old IO, Clans made prototype ER Smalls and Mediums, used IS ERLLs, and then jumped to Clan Tech ERLL. Or does new IO add one?
Post-Klondike, Nova Cats refitting mechs with ERLLs makes sense though.
So, new IO doesn't differentiate versus prototype and production, just date. But, yes, they have stats (as the Clan ER large laser).
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You know what?
IRL all Cats are temperamentally insane... First off, I love my cat. He's pet me or feed me, but don't do both. Rub him the wrong way and it's hiss and growl, keep it up and it clawin' time. But if you stroke him while he's in the hiss and growl mode, he purrs?!?
So I think that the NC are like that, temperamentally insane. Leave the alone and they'll leave you alone, feed them ( ToP ) and don't smother them afterwards and they'll be happy to jump into your lap ( scheme of things ).
TT
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You know what?
IRL all Cats are temperamentally insane... First off, I love my cat. He's pet me or feed me, but don't do both. Rub him the wrong way and it's hiss and growl, keep it up and it clawin' time. But if you stroke him while he's in the hiss and growl mode, he purrs?!?
So I think that the NC are like that, temperamentally insane. Leave the alone and they'll leave you alone, feed them ( ToP ) and don't smother them afterwards and they'll be happy to jump into your lap ( scheme of things ).
TT
Accurate
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So as a Cat, would you consider yourself a mixed breed ( IS tech ) or purebred ( Clan tech )? And how would you defend your sanctuary? Give up space for a better defense ( claw swipe ) or full spazz out ( furball rage )? This is a general question for the thread...
TT
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I'd take whatever I could to defend my planets
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The actual Nova Cat looks like it's a big cat rather then anything like a domestic feline. The same behavioral rules need not apply. If the cats were going to act anything like their namesake species, I'd expect some form of defense oriented behavior, with a hefty degree of 'touch us and we WILL mess you up' levels of digging in.
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That's a Smoke Jaguar safcon tactic...
TT
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The actual Nova Cat looks like it's a big cat rather then anything like a domestic feline. The same behavioral rules need not apply. If the cats were going to act anything like their namesake species, I'd expect some form of defense oriented behavior, with a hefty degree of 'touch us and we WILL mess you up' levels of digging in.
Link involves dead cats, but I need the humans for the size comparison.
https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/science-environment/2013/06/huge-feral-cats-wreaking-havoc-in-arnhem-land/ (https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/science-environment/2013/06/huge-feral-cats-wreaking-havoc-in-arnhem-land/)
They still exhibit a lot of stereotypical lazy cat behaviours because conserving energy and staying under cover are good survival techniques. Shifting that bulk isn't easy. It pays to remember all felines are basically ambush hunters.
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So as a Cat, would you consider yourself a mixed breed ( IS tech ) or purebred ( Clan tech )? And how would you defend your sanctuary? Give up space for a better defense ( claw swipe ) or full spazz out ( furball rage )? This is a general question for the thread...
TT
All cats - large and domestic - are ambush predators, whether laying in wait in grass or a tree, or in the case of my two murderbots, under the bed covers. Best Nova Cat example of this was Tukkayid when the Cats attacked out of Lake Losiije.
I've never thought about it, but I guess I tend to make my mechs like cats. Assaults or Heavies that strike hard, strike fast, hide and wait.
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I've never thought about it, but I guess I tend to make my mechs like cats. Assaults or Heavies that strike hard, strike fast, hide and wait.
Me over here looking at my recent string of victories in a Summoner D...
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Me over here looking at my recent string of victories in a Summoner D...
Excellent! I feel like the Summoner C & D are perfect "Cat" omnis! I'm a big fan of the Gargoyle D for similar reasons, which is thankfully in the Cats touman. I've always wanted a Clan Nova Cat version of a Kodiak though. 😸
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Nothing wrong with that. The Kodiak is a fine, glorious machine that basically hits all the notes to be an Atlas IIC, and as a plus is ferocious as all hell. The only negative is the whole Ghost Bear thing, but I won't hold that against the Kodiak one bit.
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The only negative is the whole Ghost Bear thing, but I won't hold that against the Kodiak one bit.
Seyla!
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Kingfisher B
I would happily use one, quiaff?
TT
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That's a Smoke Jaguar safcon tactic...
Smoke Jaguars have tactics beyond 'Scream and Leap?' 8)
The Nova Cat is supposed to be a crafty hunter so...yeah, as mentioned. Lots of 'waiting for the perfect moment and then striking quickly'. But the nova cat ALSO has a venomous defensive armament analogous to certain venomous fish so I'd expect a similar response...hold fast, look as threatening as possible, and if you go down get as much poison in them as possible so they're less of an issue for the next cat in the targeting reticule.
In practice, Cats seem to have gone for mobility, scouting, and long range accuracy. I suppose you could point to the wide variety of light and medium mechs for the 'crafty and strike at the right moment' end, and the Nova Cat and Supernova on the 'defense posturing' end of things if you really wanted to push the comparison to their namesake.
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Kingfisher B
I would happily use one, quiaff?
TT
Aff!
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Also Khan Drummond piloted the Vision Quest (by minimum at least 2828 it’s introduction date) which did mount Clan ER Large Lasers but and Improved Gauss Rifle, by 2832 mounting a Clan Ultra AC/20.
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And the V2 was a joint effort to make it all clantech... Shame only one in all this time.
They should have made more... Oh well...
TT
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And the V2 was a joint effort to make it all clantech... Shame only one in all this time.
They should have made more... Oh well...
TT
Agreed its a beauty of a Mech
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So while we're talking Mechs, can I ask y'all your opinions on the Marauder IIC and Warhammer IIC? I'm trying to pad out a star and I'm torn which one of them to go with.
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What era?
TT
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What era?
TT
Pre-Invasion up to about 3065-ish.
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So while we're talking Mechs, can I ask y'all your opinions on the Marauder IIC and Warhammer IIC? I'm trying to pad out a star and I'm torn which one of them to go with.
I think the Warhammer IIc is better. A little bit stronger armor (not a whole lot tho, half a ton), it’s variants are a little less samey, and there are more variants in your time frame.
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Marauder IIC, cause one it's a MAD and two, it's better protected. Best use of it is a faster Awesome 8Q.
TT
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Ah man, the more I try and narrow it down, the more I spin my mental wheels. I am liking the look of the Marauder IIC 8 and the Warhammer IIC 2, to give some fire support capabilities.
Maybe I'll have to find an excuse to just use one of each of them. Nothing too horrible about two assaults in a heavy second line star, right?
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Ah man, the more I try and narrow it down, the more I spin my mental wheels. I am liking the look of the Marauder IIC 8 and the Warhammer IIC 2, to give some fire support capabilities.
Maybe I'll have to find an excuse to just use one of each of them. Nothing too horrible about two assaults in a heavy second line star, right?
Agreed on the Marauder IIC, especially for Invasion era stuff. Although, I always go back and forth on those two mechs (and the Stone Rhino) because they are technically considered second line, but given their configurations, they are generally ideal for Nova Cat units.
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Also Khan Drummond piloted the Vision Quest (by minimum at least 2828 it’s introduction date) which did mount Clan ER Large Lasers but and Improved Gauss Rifle, by 2832 mounting a Clan Ultra AC/20.
Right! I had completely forgot about that mech, the same one Khan Drummond defeated Jaguar saKhan Ismiril in. With 86 kph, an advanced gauss rifle, and 2 ER large lasers, it's a puuuuurfect Nova Cat machine. A shame the DCMS nuked it. Dezgra.
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Clan Nova Cat Love
I was scrolling through the Clan Chatterweb today and decided, for whatever reason, to sort by views. Somewhat unsurprisingly, the usual suspects came up with high numbers of views, Jade Falcon, Ghost Bears, Wolf, Smoke Jaguars.
But then I mentally quick added up the numbers of views of the various Nova Cat fora and was a little surprised at how many total views we've had (the Snow Ravens, who I've always thought of as allies, probably take the lead).
I've always just assumed that we were a less interesting Clan to folk than the invading Clans. Sure, Nova Cats tend to be bonded and fiercely loyal, and other Clans tend to watch us to see what we do. But ultimately, we were Abjured and then Annihilated (which as an old Mechwarrior returning to my beloved Clan, was a big shock).
There are a lot of variables as to why the Nova Cat fora have had so many views. But part of me wonders, especially in light of the ilClan and Spirit Cats, and the current timeline. Why is there such love for the Nova Cats? What makes our Clan interesting or special? I'd love to hear the opinions of others, Cats or non-Cats, as to what makes the Nova Cats a Clan worth watching?
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Why is there such love for the Nova Cats?
Personally, I'm a glutton for punishment and an unyielding fan of underdogs and lost causes. :D
But in all honesty, the Cats have a fascinating culture and history. They match(ed) the Diamond Sharks at being merchants, they match the Jade Falcons for tenacity, they match the Goliath Scorpions at marksmanship and visionary thinking. Plus, they punched the ComGuards harder than any other Clan at Tukayyid, victories and losses be damned. What's not to love?
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I fell in love when I read Invading Clans back in the day. Actually, I liked most of the writeups in that book. The Nova Cats, Diamond Sharks, and Ghost Bears all had good takes on "Clan, but different." (I never knew what to make of the Steel Vipers chapter, and considering later events I'm not sure the writers did, either.) It is a tragedy that the Ghost Bears played the role they did in dooming the Nova Cats.
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I read the novel Path of Glory and that was enough for me I was a Nova Cat
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Why is there such love for the Nova Cats?
So, first time posting on this board, but I've been a fan of the Nova Cats since I got MW4 for Christmas as a teenager. Been on and off in the fandom since then, mostly on now (seeing as I am posting in a Battletech forum), and my favorite mech from that game was the Nova Cat. I got into reading about the Clans, saw that the Nova Cats defected from the Clans and joined the Second Star League, and from then on I was hooked. Their love of ERLLs and extreme-range sniping also aligned with my general 'mech combat strategy.
But I think the reason I've stuck with them, painted multiple stars in their colors (though since they use camouflage, it's mostly just their insignia that defines them), plan on cosplaying as one (ceremonial uniform), and call them 'my Clan?' I guess it's because they're one of the nicer Clans: they treat other castes well (comparatively), they only really had enemies in the Smoke Jaguars (and that one was all on the Chimney Kitties), and were willing to change when needed. That latter part is a rare virtue in anyone, but in an organization of Maoist Bushido Mongols? Unexpected to say the least. Full support of the Invasion, then realization that they're the bad guys and that the invasion has helped galvanize a Second Star League? They roll with it and join up. They make principled decisions for iffy reasons, but end up on the right side of things. They're a scrappy underdog without even trying: giant navy, amazing mech designs, weirdly prescient mysticism, but they keep getting hurt for doing what objectively seems like the right thing.
Also the Cameron Star version of their insignia is one of the simpler and more aesthetically pleasing Clan insignias out there, and their ceremonial uniform is basically "The Clans are basically all pansexual furries, at least we dress the part."
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But I think the reason I've stuck with them, painted multiple stars in their colors (though since they use camouflage, it's mostly just their insignia that defines them), plan on cosplaying as one (ceremonial uniform), and call them 'my Clan?' I guess it's because they're one of the nicer Clans: they treat other castes well (comparatively), they only really had enemies in the Smoke Jaguars (and that one was all on the Chimney Kitties), and were willing to change when needed. That latter part is a rare virtue in anyone, but in an organization of Maoist Bushido Mongols? Unexpected to say the least. Full support of the Invasion, then realization that they're the bad guys and that the invasion has helped galvanize a Second Star League? They roll with it and join up. They make principled decisions for iffy reasons, but end up on the right side of things. They're a scrappy underdog without even trying: giant navy, amazing mech designs, weirdly prescient mysticism, but they keep getting hurt for doing what objectively seems like the right thing.
Also the Cameron Star version of their insignia is one of the simpler and more aesthetically pleasing Clan insignias out there, and their ceremonial uniform is basically "The Clans are basically all pansexual furries, at least we dress the part."
I love all of this! :thumbsup: Super glad that this is your first post to the forum, it's a good one! And welcome home to the Clan!
Like you, I believe that the Cats embody all that could be good in the Clans. Traditionalists who can - and are - a little maverick sometimes. But they value people and vision, over strict devotion to tradition. Khans Drummond and Leroux are prototypical Cats to me. Drummond fought for Amaris until he realized who his boss really was, then left his whole society to go work for the "good guy", not even knowing if General Kerensky would accept him, just because it was the right thing to do. The fact that Khan Rosse fought on behalf of the Wolverines has always made me proud.
Khan Leroux was a near washout goofball who had the skill, but didn't take things seriously. Then he grew up, and led the Cats to victory. There is no doubt in my mind that if the Cat's Maw hadn't been kamikazied, the Nova Cats would have taken both their objectives (even with ammo depletion).
I've never really thought of the Nova Cats as underdogs, although, I guess they are. They're just absolutely true to who they are and are willing to accept mistakes, learn, and continue on. So, I guess that kinda does make them the best kind of underdogs.
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They also live up to the whole "Cats have nine lives" thjng - I honestly would laugh if one day one of the writers said yeah that was under the Nova Cats and Jaguars when we started - put them in situations that should kill them but don't
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They also live up to the whole "Cats have nine lives" thjng - I honestly would laugh if one day one of the writers said yeah that was under the Nova Cats and Jaguars when we started - put them in situations that should kill them but don't
I'm still hoping Kisho Nova Cat can pull off one of those 9-lives. >:D
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I'm still hoping Kisho Nova Cat can pull off one of those 9-lives. >:D
He's in Legends so unless it's a dropped plot line he'll appear at some point I'm guessing during the Combine book if anywhere
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He's in Legends so unless it's a dropped plot line he'll appear at some point I'm guessing during the Combine book if anywhere
Seems right, plus his entry in Legends is careful to point out that he took a full compliment of warriors, scientists, laborers, and the entire genetic legacy. So here's hoping!
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Seems right, plus his entry in Legends is careful to point out that he took a full compliment of warriors, scientists, laborers, and the entire genetic legacy. So here's hoping!
Recursive Clanners. They f off to black space once again to come back when most needed...like Alexy and Nicky K did. I mean, the Smoke Jaguars survived in some way, so I wish to hold out hope that the Nova Cats can resurrect themselves.
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Recursive Clanners. They f off to black space once again to come back when most needed...like Alexy and Nicky K did. I mean, the Smoke Jaguars survived in some way, so I wish to hold out hope that the Nova Cats can resurrect themselves.
I thought they were still around in Dark Age and ilClan ? But I do admit I am a Green Bird, so I do not know much about the Cats. Last I looked there were Spirit Cats, and another faction ?
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I thought they were still around in Dark Age and ilClan ? But I do admit I am a Green Bird, so I do not know much about the Cats. Last I looked there were Spirit Cats, and another faction ?
You're right the Spirit Cats who are descendants of the Nova Cats are still around as are Kisho and his Nova Cat compatriots who are currently missing in action
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so, I know it's off current topic, but it's Nova Cat general so...
how do y'all see their ceremonial outfit? Leather vest and shorts, the former with an explicitly studded collar...I'm thinking sleeveless biker jacket, similar motorcycle shorts, Greek-style sandals, and a masquerade-style mask with quills to represent the Nova Cats' totem animal. The latter part is my main concern: they just describe it as an elaborate stylized Nova Cat headpiece, which could be anything from a cat-ear tiara to a snarling Nova Cat fascinator.
Remember, FM: Comstar has the CNC say that their ceremonial garb was considered extreme and weird by literally all the other clans, so...
Or, if you want to engage more technically: How is it that the Nova Cats have basically nothing but good 'Mech designs?
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I fell in love when I read Invading Clans back in the day. Actually, I liked most of the writeups in that book. The Nova Cats, Diamond Sharks, and Ghost Bears all had good takes on "Clan, but different." (I never knew what to make of the Steel Vipers chapter, and considering later events I'm not sure the writers did, either.) It is a tragedy that the Ghost Bears played the role they did in dooming the Nova Cats.
I really can't wait until that get's revisited, we both got done dirty by the dragon on those occasions
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so, I know it's off current topic, but it's Nova Cat general so...
how do y'all see their ceremonial outfit? Leather vest and shorts, the former with an explicitly studded collar...I'm thinking sleeveless biker jacket, similar motorcycle shorts, Greek-style sandals, and a masquerade-style mask with quills to represent the Nova Cats' totem animal. The latter part is my main concern: they just describe it as an elaborate stylized Nova Cat headpiece, which could be anything from a cat-ear tiara to a snarling Nova Cat fascinator.
Remember, FM: Comstar has the CNC say that their ceremonial garb was considered extreme and weird by literally all the other clans, so...
Or, if you want to engage more technically: How is it that the Nova Cats have basically nothing but good 'Mech designs?
It's a pink and yellow polka dot mankini, with a dagger star cod piece, and a headband that says "Nova Catz rule" in an elaborately stylized font :thumbsup:
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It's a pink and yellow polka dot mankini, with a dagger star cod piece, and a headband that says "Nova Catz rule" in an elaborately stylized font :thumbsup:
A bit more scandalous than I envisioned, but I'm game (bear in mind I'm lowkey taking notes for a cosplay). "Not dezgra, is very nice! Rasalhague my neighbor, he is pains in my ******! ...loose like Ceres Arms Smasher cooling jacket."
I should be ashamed.
edit:
All things aside, thematically I like the Ghost Bear-Nova Cat animosity. It wouldn't really do to have 2 of the most bro-tier Clans be friends. And it provides an interesting look into how Clan mindsets can be changed: Ghost Bears reconsolidate and specify where their ire is directed, whereas the Nova Cats kind of hoped their visions would deliver them, and they got their shit kicked in for it, multiple times. The fact they could've been fast inter-clan friends is lost because both sides are too dogmatic.
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A bit more scandalous than I envisioned, but I'm game (bear in mind I'm lowkey taking notes for a cosplay). "Not dezgra, is very nice! Rasalhague my neighbor, he is pains in my ******! ...loose like Ceres Arms Smasher cooling jacket."
I should be ashamed.
edit:
All things aside, thematically I like the Ghost Bear-Nova Cat animosity. It wouldn't really do to have 2 of the most bro-tier Clans be friends. And it provides an interesting look into how Clan mindsets can be changed: Ghost Bears reconsolidate and specify where their ire is directed, whereas the Nova Cats kind of hoped their visions would deliver them, and they got their shit kicked in for it, multiple times. The fact they could've been fast inter-clan friends is lost because both sides are too dogmatic.
I don't think the mindsets would have ever been compatible, Bears are all lets wait and see... oh dear the opportunity has gone, back to sleep, Cats are hey so i took this HUUUUGE hit of catnip last night and i had this idea... right... hear me out... lets change sides right now, they're got star league in their name, so there'll never be repercussions for this! :P
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It's a pink and yellow polka dot mankini, with a dagger star cod piece, and a headband that says "Nova Catz rule" in an elaborately stylized font :thumbsup:
So like Sean Connery "s Zardoz outfit, sans the mask? ???
TT
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So like Sean Connery "s Zardoz outfit, sans the mask? ???
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;D ;D ;D
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so, I know it's off current topic, but it's Nova Cat general so...
how do y'all see their ceremonial outfit? Leather vest and shorts, the former with an explicitly studded collar...I'm thinking sleeveless biker jacket, similar motorcycle shorts, Greek-style sandals, and a masquerade-style mask with quills to represent the Nova Cats' totem animal. The latter part is my main concern: they just describe it as an elaborate stylized Nova Cat headpiece, which could be anything from a cat-ear tiara to a snarling Nova Cat fascinator.
Remember, FM: Comstar has the CNC say that their ceremonial garb was considered extreme and weird by literally all the other clans, so...
Or, if you want to engage more technically: How is it that the Nova Cats have basically nothing but good 'Mech designs?
Okay, 1) a Nova Cat ceremonial cosplay sounds RAD! 2) Re-reading the FM: Comstar entry, and trying hard not to just see a version of Clan Village People, I imagined it sorta how you described it. I see the vest as more of a straight up normal ("basic") leather vest, or possibly a mandarin vest. Bare foot or Greek sandals sounds right, and I imagine the vineer pouch as a kind of black leather sporran, probably with nova cat fur on the pouch.
But I tried to imagine what the ceremonial outfit was for, why would the Cats wear such an outfit? And I was reminded of the classic Nova Cat image of the mechs all parked in a circle with a blazing fire and the warriors dancing around the fire, and it occurred to me that the headpiece may have been similar to the native American (especially Lakota) buffalo headdress (or Aztec headdresses), used in important ceremonies. So my guess is that it would have been the whole upper head of a nova cat, along with a good portion of the rest of its pelt. Attached in such a way that you could have a hard night of dancing after doing a boat ton of catnip.
So the reason they are wearing shorts and a sleeveless vest is to keep cool while dancing your paws off, the sporran carries their valuable vineers, their individual story as a warrior, but the headdress is the most important, because it links them together with the Vision and Spirit of the Clan as a whole. Plus, at a certain blurry point in the evening, everything just looks like jumping and prowling nova cats.
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So I was thinking about @parable's comment about the ceremonial garb and it got me to thinking more broadly about Cat culture, before we left the homeworlds. Specifically, I realized I couldn't think much about the Cat homeworlds, or what they were like. Sure, Circe is where Rosse and Drummond came from, Dagda is where the nova cat itself is from, although according to the Political Balance Table on the Clan Homeworlds 3052 poster, we only controlled 20% of those planets. Our major planets were Barcella (Capital, 55%), Gatekeeper (40%, shared with JF), and Londerholm (40%, shared with IH and SJ).
Thing is, none of these planets list major cities or give a snapshot of what Cat populations were like. Post-abjuration (3062), Barcella had a pretty high population (by Clan standards): 37,000,000. Thing is, in FM: Comstar, Oathmaster Winters says that "we were able to relocate the few survivors of our Civilian Caste...". This makes me think that the Barcella population (and other Cat owned planets) had much larger populations, pre-Abjuration.
I guess I am just wondering if anyone remembers any other places - FM, novels, etc. - where there is a description, or memory of a description, of a place in the Cat homeworlds (pre-Irece)? Or how many civilians we lost? The Cats managed to escape with only 3 Clusters, so that's a HUGE loss.
My apologies if this is well known, I'm not caught up yet with as much Jihad and Dark Age material and am working through what the Cats left behind.
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Someone else may have the numbers on hand, but I recall that in several instances, the Cats lost tacit Trials against some friendlier Clans, who then took wholesale control of big chunks of territory. The Cloud Cobras and Diamond Sharks come to mind, specifically, but I think there were trades for escorts with the Snow Ravens, too.
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Someone else may have the numbers on hand, but I recall that in several instances, the Cats lost tacit Trials against some friendlier Clans, who then took wholesale control of big chunks of territory. The Cloud Cobras and Diamond Sharks come to mind, specifically, but I think there were trades for escorts with the Snow Ravens, too.
Yeah, I definitely remember that our old allies the Diamond Sharks helped out, and your mention of the Snow Ravens rings a bell too (I think they got some of our naval assets in return, quiaff?).
But on further reflection, it makes me think that the Cats must have suffered incredibly under the Great Refusal. We supported the Not-Named Clan (bad kitties!), approved of Kahn Phelan Ward (and by extension the Wolves-in-Exile), and Khan Leroux spoke out eloquently of the moral duty to rejoin the Star League.
My guess is that Cat cities must have been glassed (maybe not directly nuked like the Wolverines, but orbitaly bombarded) by hardliners (like the Falcons). The reaction against the Nova Cats, except by friend like the Diamond Sharks, Snow Ravens, and Cloud Cobras, must have been extreme.
I have no doubt that Leroux, Carns, and Winters (and West) were prepping for the departure to the IS in the years before the Abjuration, but the backlash must have been intense!
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First and foremost, thanks @cmerwin for the thoughts on the headpiece. Second off, though, the beginning of Path of Glory does show how Nova Cat warriors were attempting to prevent the wholesale slaughter of their civilian castes. It's interesting because even the Not-Named-Clan--Annihilated as it was--had its civilians sterilized and folded into all the other clans, whereas the books and sarna both state that millions of Nova Cat civilians had to be left behind and were all killed.
It's actually, now that I'm thinking about it, an interesting parallel. The clans invade, do damage, get hoist by their own petard at Tukayyid, and so the IS goes and inflicts the closest thing they can do to Clan judgment on a clan (but the Smoke Jaguars were the worst, so y'know). But then the Clans feel slighted and savage the Nova Cats, to take out their own frustrations about Operation REVIVAL. At least, that's how I see it. It's still a shocking waste of materiel to slaughter millions of civilians wholesale and abandon zellbrigen, but their pride was gravely wounded.
Finally, responding to @cmerwin's previous post re: Nova Cat society and population? While the main character is a hardass with PTSD, what we see of the Clan-in-the-IS in Path of Glory, one gets the impression that unlike the Jade Falcons' sweeping architecture or the Ghost Bears' Great Works, Nova Cats are very deliberately austere. Canonically, they have no combat medals or awards, they seem to be tolerant of the Freeborn (though it may be because they were recently genocided), and they generally eschew overly-stylized Totem mechs. This might also explain why their worlds and factories were so easily repurposed.
Just a few thoughts.
Post Script edit: I recall that in several instances, the Cats lost tacit Trials against some friendlier Clans
They did this to move into the Irece prefecture, losing a series of pitched 'trials' against the Dracs so they could be taken as abtakha without any loss of life or honor on either side. IIRC, there was some kind of sportsball game that the Nova Cats lost, and one that was decided by a coin toss wherein the Nova Cat called 'edge' while it was in the air. Definitely outside the intention of Clan law, but our visions do guide us to strange places.
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Yeah, I definitely remember that our old allies the Diamond Sharks helped out, and your mention of the Snow Ravens rings a bell too (I think they got some of our naval assets in return, quiaff?).
But on further reflection, it makes me think that the Cats must have suffered incredibly under the Great Refusal. We supported the Not-Named Clan (bad kitties!), approved of Kahn Phelan Ward (and by extension the Wolves-in-Exile), and Khan Leroux spoke out eloquently of the moral duty to rejoin the Star League.
My guess is that Cat cities must have been glassed (maybe not directly nuked like the Wolverines, but orbitaly bombarded) by hardliners (like the Falcons). The reaction against the Nova Cats, except by friend like the Diamond Sharks, Snow Ravens, and Cloud Cobras, must have been extreme.
I have no doubt that Leroux, Carns, and Winters (and West) were prepping for the departure to the IS in the years before the Abjuration, but the backlash must have been intense!
Nah its the Clan way for settlements to change hands
The Nova Cat warriors were given honour trials by the Nova Cats allies some absorbed in the process other Clans like the Falcons and Horses annihilated the warriors but the civies they just changed ruler its the Clan way. Warriors pay the price civilians, infrastructure and production just change hands
If anyone used orbital bombardment on civies in the Homeworlds there would have been hell to pay regardless of what the Nova Cats did
Only during the Wars of Reaving did these rules get broken and a more total war approach was taken
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Nah its the Clan way for settlements to change hands
The Nova Cat warriors were given honour trials by the Nova Cats allies some absorbed in the process other Clans like the Falcons and Horses annihilated the warriors but the civies they just changed ruler its the Clan way. Warriors pay the price civilians, infrastructure and production just change hands
If anyone used orbital bombardment on civies in the Homeworlds there would have been hell to pay regardless of what the Nova Cats did
Only during the Wars of Reaving did these rules get broken and a more total war approach was taken
I would normally agree, but the statement from Oathmaster Winters, and in some of the novels, seems to imply that Nova Cat civilian castes were targeted as well. This seemed to be treated as somewhere between an Abjuration and Annihilation. The Nova Cat loses, among ALL castes seemed to have been substantial.
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First and foremost, thanks @cmerwin for the thoughts on the headpiece. Second off, though, the beginning of Path of Glory does show how Nova Cat warriors were attempting to prevent the wholesale slaughter of their civilian castes. It's interesting because even the Not-Named-Clan--Annihilated as it was--had its civilians sterilized and folded into all the other clans, whereas the books and sarna both state that millions of Nova Cat civilians had to be left behind and were all killed.
It's actually, now that I'm thinking about it, an interesting parallel. The clans invade, do damage, get hoist by their own petard at Tukayyid, and so the IS goes and inflicts the closest thing they can do to Clan judgment on a clan (but the Smoke Jaguars were the worst, so y'know). But then the Clans feel slighted and savage the Nova Cats, to take out their own frustrations about Operation REVIVAL. At least, that's how I see it. It's still a shocking waste of materiel to slaughter millions of civilians wholesale and abandon zellbrigen, but their pride was gravely wounded.
Finally, responding to @cmerwin's previous post re: Nova Cat society and population? While the main character is a hardass with PTSD, what we see of the Clan-in-the-IS in Path of Glory, one gets the impression that unlike the Jade Falcons' sweeping architecture or the Ghost Bears' Great Works, Nova Cats are very deliberately austere. Canonically, they have no combat medals or awards, they seem to be tolerant of the Freeborn (though it may be because they were recently genocided), and they generally eschew overly-stylized Totem mechs. This might also explain why their worlds and factories were so easily repurposed.
Just a few thoughts.
Post Script edit: They did this to move into the Irece prefecture, losing a series of pitched 'trials' against the Dracs so they could be taken as abtakha without any loss of life or honor on either side. IIRC, there was some kind of sportsball game that the Nova Cats lost, and one that was decided by a coin toss wherein the Nova Cat called 'edge' while it was in the air. Definitely outside the intention of Clan law, but our visions do guide us to strange places.
I think your analysis is spot on! The Cats were always "different", and for them to 1) switch from being Crusader to Warden (insulting!), and 2) *defect* to the false Star League, was just too much for the traumatized post-Tukayyid clans. In some ways, this is worse than the feckless charge of "genocide" charged to ilKhan Kerensky, this is betrayal to the enemy (at least from a Crusader standpoint)!
The other Clans who knew the Cats, understood them, respected them (and our odd, but profitable, ways), understood this wasn't the case, and maybe (?) even envied us for our decision, helped give us the slip into the IS. But it still cost the lives of millions of Nova Cats, from all castes.
P.S. Also, if I am not mistaken, WIE had already pulled all of their assets into the IS, so the angry "betrayed" clans couldn't lash out at them, which must have been doubly frustrating. Wolves had always been untrustworthy, but here were the Cats, duplicitously switching sides. Dezgra! They - and their civilians - deserve everything they get!
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I would normally agree, but the statement from Oathmaster Winters, and in some of the novels, seems to imply that Nova Cat civilian castes were targeted as well. This seemed to be treated as somewhere between an Abjuration and Annihilation. The Nova Cat loses, among ALL castes seemed to have been substantial.
Possible but not orbital, instead you're looking at the down and dirty version up close and personal
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Possible but not orbital, instead you're looking at the down and dirty version up close and personal
Fair, and I hear you. My thinking of orbital bombardment was that the Cats had roughly a week to leave the Homeworlds. Somehow the thought of killing millions of civilians in the up close and dirty way seems even worse.
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My understanding of the Abjuration is that they were given a month or three to evacuate their holdings, but a few clans struck about a week into that process, leading any other clan who wanted to kill some Nova Cats to join the fray early as well. I would estimate that the bulk of the homeworld Nova Cats had either fled or been killed by week 3. Ironically, the other clans' desire to be the first to effectively Annihilate the homeworld Nova Cats slowed their progress considerably with infighting to delay each others' progress, which is how I assume we were able to cede large amounts of Nova Cat space to the Diamond Sharks (and I think some to the Snow Ravens). I would imagine that whatever civilians survived to be taken as isorla by our allies were very quietly distributed through their holdings, so as not to arouse too much suspicion from the other clans.
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My understanding of the Abjuration is that they were given a month or three to evacuate their holdings, but a few clans struck about a week into that process, leading any other clan who wanted to kill some Nova Cats to join the fray early as well. I would estimate that the bulk of the homeworld Nova Cats had either fled or been killed by week 3. Ironically, the other clans' desire to be the first to effectively Annihilate the homeworld Nova Cats slowed their progress considerably with infighting to delay each others' progress, which is how I assume we were able to cede large amounts of Nova Cat space to the Diamond Sharks (and I think some to the Snow Ravens). I would imagine that whatever civilians survived to be taken as isorla by our allies were very quietly distributed through their holdings, so as not to arouse too much suspicion from the other clans.
There is also a note in one of the Clan Phoenix Mechs that at one battle the Nova Cats took some Cloud Cobra warriors as bondsmen and that opened the door for negotiation which left a Nova Cat enclave (plus it's industries and civilians) in the hands of the Cobras (and by extension the Adders). Though that was only a one time thing otherwise most Clans attacked without much mercy. Though at soem cost (for example the Adders lost one of their warships)
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There is also a note in one of the Clan Phoenix Mechs that at one battle the Nova Cats took some Cloud Cobra warriors as bondsmen and that opened the door for negotiation which left a Nova Cat enclave (plus it's industries and civilians) in the hands of the Cobras (and by extension the Adders). Though that was only a one time thing otherwise most Clans attacked without much mercy. Though at soem cost (for example the Adders lost one of their warships)
That tracks, and makes sense in terms of Clans that the Cats were close to, and the Cats definitely lost a lot of our touman defending our lower castes.
I guess I would be curious to think about the Cats demographics. How many did we have? How many did we take with us? My guess is that the lower end of the Cat population - being *really* conservative - among all Cat owned areas, would be 5 million. Realistically, we probably had closer to 20-30 million among all non-Warrior castes.
That's still a lot of peeps.
Probably a few million of whom actually made it to the Inner Sphere, the rest either killed or folded into other Clans.
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Really hard to say. We didnt get that much information on the Home clans, and once we did the NCs were already on the way out.
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Really hard to say. We didnt get that much information on the Home clans, and once we did the NCs were already on the way out.
Yeah, the closest I think we can get is just guestimating some of the numbers listed in Warriors of Kerensky, since they give a few percentages of the Cats' loses by planet, and compare it to both Paths of Glory and some of the population estimates given in the table from WoK (p. 34).
I guess I had just never really thought about the cost of the Abjuration in sheer numbers. Even given slightly longer than a month (and absorption by friendly Clans), the death toll must have been incredible, easily in the millions. Sure, not to bemoan the loss of most of our front line Galaxies who gave their lives so the civilians could evacuate, the civilian death toll is still cataclysmic - to the point that I can't think of a comparable event that would have killed so many in such a short time in our current timeline.
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A bit more scandalous than I envisioned, but I'm game (bear in mind I'm lowkey taking notes for a cosplay).
Also, for the love of all that's sacred and the Ways of Seeing, *please* post some pictures of your cosplay once done! Super stoked!
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Also, for the love of all that's sacred and the Ways of Seeing, *please* post some pictures of your cosplay once done! Super stoked!
This is the post that convinced me to pull the trigger on doing it soon. It might take a few months (life happens, after all, and leather clothing is expensive), but I will make sure to post it, and definitely notify this board. Thanks for the support, trothkin.
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This is the post that convinced me to pull the trigger on doing it soon. It might take a few months (life happens, after all, and leather clothing is expensive), but I will make sure to post it, and definitely notify this board. Thanks for the support, trothkin.
Seyla!
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How many did we have? How many did we take with us? My guess is that the lower end of the Cat population - being *really* conservative - among all Cat owned areas, would be 5 million. Realistically, we probably had closer to 20-30 million among all non-Warrior castes.
I'd go with a lower number on population based on the fact that we're a Clan--internal attrition and planned breeding are givens--20-ish million. The Nova Cats had, I think, moved into the IS earlier and more readily than other clans, so that tilts the numbers. In the end, my estimate is about 2-3 million Nova Cats dead out of 6-8 million that attempted to flee. I know it's part of the setting but these numbers are astoundingly low for a multiple planet conquest party.
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In the end, my estimate is about 2-3 million Nova Cats dead out of 6-8 million that attempted to flee. I know it's part of the setting but these numbers are astoundingly low for a multiple planet conquest party.
Agreed and I think that sounds right. I suspect that our Scientist and Merchant castes were relatively large (given our encouragement of them), but I still think that you are right and it puts us in the 20 million range. I suspect that the number of dead may have been higher though. My guess is that on planets we shared with Jags and JF, they simply killed our population - defective, traitorous genes, and all that. The rest on other planets or areas were either sterilized (IH, GB, CC ??) or - mercifully - folded into Diamond Shark populations. But I strongly suspect you are right. I think we had secretly been moving assets into the IS, prior to the Great Refusal, anticipating what would happen.
I agree that the numbers are astoundingly low in some ways, but they are also astoundingly high in others. Somewhere between 3-5 million dead in less than 3 months. That's Turtle Bay (larger, actually) magnitude of civilian deaths.
As a proud Nova Cat (and former military officer myself), I will never forget the aid of the Sharks (and Ravens) in protecting our civilians, nor the cowardly barbarity of the Jags and Falcons, and any other Clan, in slaughtering them.
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I think the Jaguars had nothing to do with the genocide of Nova Cats. Because the Nova Cats were just helping the remnants of the Jaguars to escape at that time.
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I think the Jaguars had nothing to do with the genocide of Nova Cats. Because the Nova Cats were just helping the remnants of the Jaguars to escape at that time.
Yeah, the Jaguars were already Annihilated by the time the Nova Cats were Abjured.
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Yeah, the Jaguars were already Annihilated by the time the Nova Cats were Abjured.
Correct me if I am wrong, both events happened in 3060 - the Annihilation of the Jags and the Abjuration of the Cats. To be fair, I can understand that the Jags weren't in any position to attack the Cats civilian population centers (and so I would be wrong to falsely accuse them), but I thought both sets of events happened in the same year, quiaff?
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Correct me if I am wrong, both events happened in 3060 - the Annihilation of the Jags and the Abjuration of the Cats. To be fair, I can understand that the Jags weren't in any position to attack the Cats civilian population centers (and so I would be wrong to falsely accuse them), but I thought both sets of events happened in the same year, quiaff?
They did indeed, but the Cats were Abjured in the wake of the Great Refusal, and by then, the Jaguar Annihilation was already complete.
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Correct me if I am wrong, both events happened in 3060 - the Annihilation of the Jags and the Abjuration of the Cats. To be fair, I can understand that the Jags weren't in any position to attack the Cats civilian population centers (and so I would be wrong to falsely accuse them), but I thought both sets of events happened in the same year, quiaff?
Yeah, but a year is not a short time. The Clans did not know that the Nova Cats defected wholesale to the Inner Sphere until the Great Refusal, when we trounced the Ice Hellions and helped Annihilate the Smoke Jaguars. They held an emergency Great Council meeting, the call to Annihilate us was vetoed but they then voted to Abjure us, and we all know how that ended up. Basically, a lot of very important things happened all at once, but the Smoke Jaguars would not have been an issue during our fraught and desperate exodus to the Inner Sphere.
At least, that is my analysis of things.
edit: I am just now working my way thru the Twilight of the Clans series, having only recently read Path of Glory and Impetus of War, so I don't really have deep-dive references for my posts.
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No analysis or deep-dive references needed. The Cats weren’t Abjured until after the Great Refusal, and the Jaguars were gone by then.
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to be fair, I was kind of high when I wrote that response. Maybe I'd fit better with the Goliath Scorpions. But yeah, the timeline precludes chimney kitties from getting in on the
fun genocide.
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Anyone happen to have a copy of "Ask the Writers - NCS True Vision and Anna Rosse", quineg?
Sadly, Sarna only has a deadlink for it and sniffing around the interwebs yields nothing. Would love to get a copy!
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We still don't know Kisho's fate, but he wasn't the first Cat to disappear in an unknown direction. In 3062, two clusters of Nova Cats disappeared from Yamarovka and did not appear anywhere else. The fate of the 246 battle cluster is also unclear. In 3079 it was part of the Delta Galaxy (Field report: clans), in 3084 it fights Bears on Mualang (TRO: Dark age) . That is, the cluster has not joined the republic. At the same time, it does not appear in the lists of Nova Cats forces at 3085. Where did they all disappear to?
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Since circa 3085 Mualang is occupied by the Nekoryu Keshik and the Nova Cat Hussars (at least according to Sarna), I would assume they were folded into one of those two units. Given how after Sigma Galaxy was reduced below fighting strength, the 246th Battle Cluster was integrated into Delta Galaxy, it seems that such a reorganization likely happened once more, and the 246th were effectively dissolved and reshuffled into the new Nova Cat commands on Mualang.
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If you go by the old MWDA novels, the Nova CTs were reduced to two Galaxy when the Combine deployed them into the Republic before they were annilated.
Given how are like had said that no initial power should destroy a clan, it makes me wonder if he plans to have the combine punished in the future.
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If you go by the old MWDA novels, the Nova CTs were reduced to two Galaxy when the Combine deployed them into the Republic before they were annilated.
Given how are like had said that no initial power should destroy a clan, it makes me wonder if he plans to have the combine punished in the future.
As a Nova Cat fan my hope is Kishos group present themselves to the ilKhan showing they have the genetic history of the Nova Cats with them and he says simply - the Combine is yours
Rebuild on Terra then the Smoke Kitties and Nova Cats get some revenge on the Combine, the Protectorate is left to be its own thing
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Given the Wolves' treatment of the Dragoons, and the fact that the Nova Cats deliberately sided with the Inner Sphere against the Clans in the Great Refusal, I would not be inclined to think that the ilClan would feel particularly forgiving towards any Nova Cat survivors.
(Tangent: Potentially curious about some plot threads that were put in place by Jaguar's Leap. Could there be even more Nova Cat descendants out there?)
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Given the Wolves' treatment of the Dragoons, and the fact that the Nova Cats deliberately sided with the Inner Sphere against the Clans in the Great Refusal, I would not be inclined to think that the ilClan would feel particularly forgiving towards any Nova Cat survivors.
(Tangent: Potentially curious about some plot threads that were put in place by Jaguar's Leap. Could there be even more Nova Cat descendants out there?)
I don't think he'll treat them exceptionally well but he could use them as a tool to destroy the Combine who he says he will make pay for believing they can destroy a Clan. Alternatively he spins it and sends them against the FWL and uses them to split the Protectorate in turn destroying the Cats (just because he doesn't want the Inner Sphere doing it doesn't mean the ilKhan can't use and throw away)
I still need to read that
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I don't think he'll treat them exceptionally well but he could use them as a tool to destroy the Combine who he says he will make pay for believing they can destroy a Clan. Alternatively he spins it and sends them against the FWL and uses them to split the Protectorate in turn destroying the Cats (just because he doesn't want the Inner Sphere doing it doesn't mean the ilKhan can't use and throw away)
I still need to read that
He does seem to believe in treating factions he doesn't like as though they were dumbfire rockets: big, destructive, and disposable.
It wasn't among my favorite novels, but it was interesting. And potentially sets up some Chekov's Guns down the line. (It's also possible that it doesn't. Ambiguous enough for me to go, "Hey, what if...?") And it does manage to feature some Clans that don't always get as much novel time. (Heck, the Cloud Cobras show up in it, and are plot relevant...for about five minutes, but that's five more minutes than they had!)
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That's true the poor Cloud Cobras I don't think have ever had any amount of book time
It's on my list I've just been catching up with Sharpnel issues
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Picked it up on a whim. I'm sort of erratically picking up Battletech Fiction. That one leapt out at me (pun not intended) because it was Jaguar focused during the Invasion (and a bit before). It definitely focuses on the life of a specific warrior. Wouldn't say it's my favorite Battletech novel ever, but I still enjoyed it. And yeah, some other Clans are a big part of what's going on in that novel, including the Cats.
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Unless there's like a master plan in the background that no one sees, I think it's up to the author who's writing a book or story to see what direction the clan will go to if any.
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Unless there's like a master plan in the background that no one sees, I think it's up to the author who's writing a book or story to see what direction the clan will go to if any.
I'm pretty sure they don't let the authors just do what they want, and in fact do plan things out in the background before stories see print.
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If you go by the old MWDA novels, the Nova CTs were reduced to two Galaxy when the Combine deployed them into the Republic before they were annilated.
Given how are like had said that no initial power should destroy a clan, it makes me wonder if he plans to have the combine punished in the future.
The book didn't say that Cats have only two galaxies. According to fragmentary information from the time of annihilation, there were 3-4 of them. But it's impossible to say for sure. For almost ten years in RL since the destruction of most Cats, we have not been told almost any details. We don't even know the name of any cluster from the time of the uprising. And in the universe itself, everyone somehow doesn't care, destroyed and destroyed. In the books where the Kuritans appear, no one even remembers about some kind of uprising. Only Alaric mentioned it briefly in one of the books. And I have practically no signs that the topic of Nova Cats will be revealed somehow at all. The only exception is that Kisho Nova Cat in Legends.
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I mean, Kisho jetted off into black space like Kerensky 2.0...and we know that the remaining portion of the Nova Cat population is struggling to fit in to FWL Clan protectorate space, or sterilized by the Dracs...The dark fact is that we Nova Cats, as a power, are dead and gone. Oh sure, I'd love to entertain a fidelis-style comeback, but we never tried to be eternal--an unforeseen end that our visions missed is almost beautiful.
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Oh sure, I'd love to entertain a fidelis-style comeback, but we never tried to be eternal--an unforeseen end that our visions missed is almost beautiful.
I agree with you, although having just reread Forever Faithful, I do wonder whether or not any of the Fidelis, or the "new" ilClan-era Smoke Jaguars, remember the debt that they owe the Cats for their survival. I would hope at least Custos Paul Moon, given that his wife is a Nova Cat, would remember and would advocate on behalf of any Cats.
I think it would be a pretty uncool twist of fate if the BT writers had the Nova Cats orchestrate the survival of the Smoke Jaguars, but then completely disappeared the Cats.
I'm still hoping the Cats and Wolverines found each other out in the Periphery and come back in the ilClan era! ;D
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Why do you think the Ravens are building Pulverizers still? Because secretly they’re allowing the Wolverines to rebuild in the Outworlds Wastes. Soon they’ll link up with some of those Nova Cats that managed to get away from DC forces and at some point in the future when the Ravens tell Alaric to shove it they’ll reveal the couple Galaxies of Reborn Wolverines and Nova Cats.
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I agree with you, although having just reread Forever Faithful, I do wonder whether or not any of the Fidelis, or the "new" ilClan-era Smoke Jaguars, remember the debt that they owe the Cats for their survival. I would hope at least Custos Paul Moon, given that his wife is a Nova Cat, would remember and would advocate on behalf of any Cats.
I think it would be a pretty uncool twist of fate if the BT writers had the Nova Cats orchestrate the survival of the Smoke Jaguars, but then completely disappeared the Cats.
I'm still hoping the Cats and Wolverines found each other out in the Periphery and come back in the ilClan era! ;D
IIRC Paul Moon remained Custos of the Fidelis he and a few of the old school jaguars/die hard Fidelis left so they didn't cast the new Jags with history
So the Jags will have little desire to get involved with the cast out Nova Cats
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(https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Tt5QT--CVggrO7rMLaX8QcxkPMDYB57c/view)
"Oathmaster. I have had a Vision, but I do not understand it. I see....I see...visions of sugar plums? I do not understand."
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IIRC Paul Moon remained Custos of the Fidelis he and a few of the old school jaguars/die hard Fidelis left so they didn't cast the new Jags with history
So the Jags will have little desire to get involved with the cast out Nova Cats
The new Khan of the Jaguars is Paul Moon's daughter. I wouldn't be surprised if her mother is Inanna. I think she knows the whole story.
Another question is that so far there are no prerequisites for any disclosure of the topic of the recent past and the future remnants of Nova Cats. Therefore, I doubt that the participation of Nova Cats in the survival of Jaguars will somehow play a role. Most likely it will be like with Jihad. When Cats played a significant role in the original sources of the Dark Age, and in subsequent sources of the classic battletech, their role was reduced to an episodic role. Who somewhere behind the scenes sacrificed their entire large fleet and then acted as whipping boys for Liao
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Personally, I liked the idea of the Fidelis surviving intact and being outliers of the Clans. They were originally they had developed a anti-clan mentality. However since Surrender Your Dreams had come out and establish them as a sub-faction, they've changed in the source books.
I don't see them surviving as well in the post Republic era now IlClan era.
The Spirit Cats may become the new Nova Cats given the changes the recent novels happened giving them a second chance. However I'm not holding out about it given that the direction Alaric had said no Inner Sphere power should be kill off the Clans. Since the Draconis Combine did just that. Since arthor who wrote novel isn't writing novels anymore for CGL. The developers could end up getting new writer who ends up going a completely different direction with the plots
The future is wide open I'm interesting to see the post Source book to cover the new era after the firm establishment of what's going on with clans of a Terra.
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Personally, I liked the idea of the Fidelis surviving intact and being outliers of the Clans. They were originally they had developed a anti-clan mentality. However since Surrender Your Dreams had come out and establish them as a sub-faction, they've changed in the source books.
I don't see them surviving as well in the post Republic era now IlClan era.
The Spirit Cats may become the new Nova Cats given the changes the recent novels happened giving them a second chance. However I'm not holding out about it given that the direction Alaric had said no Inner Sphere power should be kill off the Clans. Since the Draconis Combine did just that. Since arthor who wrote novel isn't writing novels anymore for CGL. The developers could end up getting new writer who ends up going a completely different direction with the plots
The future is wide open I'm interesting to see the post Source book to cover the new era after the firm establishment of what's going on with clans of a Terra.
I gave up when they were yet another elite of the elite of the elite, we mean it this time. Oh, and they are their own techs. And they all drive customs. We ban people from the tabletop who show up with units like that. That they were "good" Jaguars as well is bad comedy along the lines of Alaric (Muad Dib) Ward.
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I gave up when they were yet another elite of the elite of the elite, we mean it this time. Oh, and they are their own techs. And they all drive customs. We ban people from the tabletop who show up with units like that. That they were "good" Jaguars as well is bad comedy along the lines of Alaric (Muad Dib) Ward.
The Fidelis could’ve redeemed themselves at least a little bit by staying the course with Stone and making Alaric pay dearly for every inch of Terra, instead of the lopsided two-on-one fight we got. Having them inexplicably return to the Clans after Pardoe himself established them as rejecting Clans ways and hating the Wolves and Falcons in SYD was just dumb.
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Looking at the Battletech products of recent years, I understand that there will be no revival of Nova Cats or at least a normal description of their destruction.
From the point of view of the universe, ressurection is possible. From the point of view of the existing reality, no. None of the authors seem to be interested in Nova Cats in any way. Not to resurrect them, but even just to remember that they once were. Just for example, the last novel. Do you think that when Torunaga or Yori recalled the past in the course of the novel, at least one of them remembered some kind of uprising? If anyone was hoping for revenge on Torunaga or Bhatia by the hands of the surviving Nova Cats or by anyone for them, then you can also forget about it.
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Are not Spirit Cats, Nova Cats ? qui-qui ;D
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Looking at the Battletech products of recent years, I understand that there will be no revival of Nova Cats or at least a normal description of their destruction.
From the point of view of the universe, ressurection is possible. From the point of view of the existing reality, no. None of the authors seem to be interested in Nova Cats in any way. Not to resurrect them, but even just to remember that they once were. Just for example, the last novel. Do you think that when Torunaga or Yori recalled the past in the course of the novel, at least one of them remembered some kind of uprising? If anyone was hoping for revenge on Torunaga or Bhatia by the hands of the surviving Nova Cats or by anyone for them, then you can also forget about it.
My guy, I feel like we're in the wild, wild west of BattleTech in the ilClan era. The gee-dee'd Smoke Jaguars came back as a faction- who would ever have seen that coming at any point before it happened? For years, I was mainly hoping that fringe groups of Jags like the Dark on Antallos, the ex-Jags in the Brotherhood of St. Randis, or Russou Howell/The Jaguar would do something noteworthy in the fiction. And then Pardoe, who had some real contradictory ideas on what the Jaguars were/are, made his big push to bring them back and they didn't put out a novel for a while that didn't have an appearance by Paul Moon, but here we are. IRL, awful lot of new players I see in various social media groups seem to like painting their new CGL plastics in Nova Cat Alpha colors, so the interest and name recognition is definitely there for the Invasion-era.
I guess my point is it only takes one person to be the driving force. If the logic that 'only a Clan can end a Clan" or however Alaric phrased it holds true to the Smoke Jaguars, then the Nova Cats definitely also qualify. I hold out some hope that the Draconis Combine tells the new Star League to pound sand, and part of the response is the Jaguars and Cats rolling back-to-back Crane-style for DRAGONSLAYER 2.0.
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I'll explain why I'm so "optimistic".In 10 years of real time since the destruction of Nova Cats, we have received:
- practically nothing about the uprising itself. As that page was in the Era report and remained. Except that a few minor local details were added by various technical readouts. We know much more about the death of any other clan. Moreover, Nova Cats is the top 4-6 most popular clan. And even now they have quite a lot of fans.
- We know a little more about Spirit Cats. There was a hope to see their description in the "Empire alone". Especially after a very cool description of various mini factions in the "Tamar rising". But the style of the "Empire alone" is different and in the end we only learned about the small role of Spirit Cats in the form of puppets in the game of sea foxes. And again, almost nothing about the internal structure of the clan protectorate.
And a strong shift of emphasis in it from Spirit Cats to Sea Foxes. Right up to rewriting history. For example, Lady Jullieta was healed by Spirit Cats medics, but in the "Hunting season" it is written that Sea Foxes treated her.
I'm sorry that this post looks like whining. It's just that ten years of waiting are taking their toll. The last straw was ""Damocles sanction". This is a great book and the topic has nothing to do with Cats. However, there is one caveat. Minor spoilers : Although the book is mainly about Davions, nevertheless, the narrative often shows a different side of conflict. Yori and Torunaga actively appear in the text and sometimes recall their life path. None of them ever even mentioned some kind of uprising of Emi Kurita and Nova Cats. Torunaga thinks so bluntly that before the attack on the FS, all he became famous for was minor border skirmishes and showdowns with bandits. And nothing else. There was simply no uprising and no Nova Cats!
Well, what to think after all that? I don't see any prerequisites for operation dragonslayer 2. And what will happen to the Jaguars after the departure of the BLP?
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So again, are Spirit Cats, Nova Cats ?
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Yes. All Spirit Cats are Nova Cats. But not all Nova Cats are Spirit Cats.
At least for now. The Spirit Cats could eventually evolve into something new.
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Yes. All Spirit Cats are Nova Cats. But not all Nova Cats are Spirit Cats.
At least for now. The Spirit Cats could eventually evolve into something new.
Kinda like Jiyi and Stephanie's Falcons ?
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Kinda like Jiyi and Stephanie's Falcons ?
Essentially, same with the ilClan Wolves and the Empire Wolves lots of divided factions at the moment claiming the same mantles
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Essentially, same with the ilClan Wolves and the Empire Wolves lots of divided factions at the moment claiming the same mantles
And this month we get to see if that applies to the Dominion as well, so time to join a Cloister and pray for us Ghost Bears lol
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And this month we get to see if that applies to the Dominion as well, so time to join a Cloister and pray for us Ghost Bears lol
I can see it both ways, Joiners and Refusers, but for some reason, I lean towards Refusers
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My kingdom for BattleTech to stop making every damn Clan political movement a binary choice. Crusaders/Wardens, Jesses/Slips, Bastions/Aggressors… it gets a little silly after a while and skirts a little too closely to American politics for this escapist. 😂
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My kingdom for BattleTech to stop making every damn Clan political movement a binary choice. Crusaders/Wardens, Jesses/Slips, Bastions/Aggressors… it gets a little silly after a while and skirts a little too closely to American politics for this escapist. 😂
Yeah… let’s avoid that topic. Didn’t even consider it.
Back on topic: it does kinda suck that most recent BT choices politically are divided into two sides: with or against the IlClan. Certainly Alaric isn’t helping either with it. I know it’s the whole idea of the IlClan throwing a wrench into every Clans politics… but still it’s annoying.
That being said: I would have hoped the Nova/Spirit Cats would have found a better home in the FWL than they did in the Combine. I hope they would evolve into something more akin to the Dominion (or even the Ravens), and no longer shunned by their IS hosts.
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Reading about the Fidalis I think the Nova Cats should go Mercenary Clan like say the Northwind Highlanders. It is a numbers game. There aren't that many Nova Cats left. But you can imagine them getting a planet of their own like so many mercs before. They can stay a bit mobile and not get subsumed by a Great House. And while we have seen Clanner mercs before, there has been nothing on that scale.
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That being said: I would have hoped the Nova/Spirit Cats would have found a better home in the FWL than they did in the Combine. I hope they would evolve into something more akin to the Dominion (or even the Ravens), and no longer shunned by their IS hosts.
Considering they get an actual say in the FWL, official MP representation, and aren’t living on reservations and being shunned and hated by their xenophobic hosts, it’s hard to say that they aren’t doing better where they are now.
Reading about the Fidalis I think the Nova Cats should go Mercenary Clan like say the Northwind Highlanders. It is a numbers game. There aren't that many Nova Cats left. But you can imagine them getting a planet of their own like so many mercs before. They can stay a bit mobile and not get subsumed by a Great House. And while we have seen Clanner mercs before, there has been nothing on that scale.
If the Nova Cats went mercenary, they may as well just stop being Clan.
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My kingdom for BattleTech to stop making every damn Clan political movement a binary choice. Crusaders/Wardens, Jesses/Slips, Bastions/Aggressors… it gets a little silly after a while and skirts a little too closely to American politics for this escapist. 😂
With exception to the Bears, Ravens and Scorpions, as they are the grand mixers. But yes, I do see evolution in the fiction of Battletech being able to move past binary choices, will be interested further going into ilClan era, as alot more mixing lol
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With exception to the Bears, Ravens and Scorpions, as they are the grand mixers. But yes, I do see evolution in the fiction of Battletech being able to move past binary choices, will be interested further going into ilClan era, as alot more mixing lol
Oh no, the Scorpions have a story in one of the Shrapnel issues... and wouldn't you know it? Two political affiliations, LOL
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Knowing the Nova Cats luck
First merc contract sign on with ilClan scream surprise at their enemies and agree to go thump the Combine
First mission the Bears only Leviathan III jumps in wipes them out... excuse we do not like mercs... alaric shrugs shoulders moves on
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Oh no, the Scorpions have a story in one of the Shrapnel issues... and wouldn't you know it? Two political affiliations, LOL
Which one is that Tassa ? I have read "Plowshares", is there another one ?
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Which one is that Tassa ? I have read "Plowshares", is there another one ?
“Moving Forward”, in Shrapnel #… 6, IIRC?
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“Moving Forward”, in Shrapnel #… 6, IIRC?
Yep, just started it now, thanks
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Yep, just started it now, thanks
I hope you enjoy it. I did not. It read more like a dry faction update than an actual story.
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Knowing the Nova Cats luck
First merc contract sign on with ilClan scream surprise at their enemies and agree to go thump the Combine
First mission the Bears only Leviathan III jumps in wipes them out... excuse we do not like mercs... alaric shrugs shoulders moves on
You forgot to add that it will be one line of text without any details. ;)
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Looking at the Battletech products of recent years, I understand that there will be no revival of Nova Cats or at least a normal description of their destruction.
There will be something. Kisho was in the Legends book as ilClan Era Character. That alone (almost) guarantees some sort of expansion and follow up to the end of the Nova Cats in the Combine civil war. If he's going to show up in this cycle of source books, odds are its going to be in Dominions Divided.
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There will be something. Kisho was in the Legends book as ilClan Era Character. That alone (almost) guarantees some sort of expansion and follow up to the end of the Nova Cats in the Combine civil war. If he's going to show up in this cycle of source books, odds are its going to be in Dominions Divided.
I suspect Kisho will show up in IlKhan's Eyes Only, or whatever the next House Marik-focused book will be. The Spirit Cats and rest of Clan Protectorate are already becoming divided over whether to protect the Wolf Empire or not, i think Kisho will be the carrot Alaric can dangle in front of the Spirit Cats to get them to firmly jump.
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I suspect Kisho will show up in IlKhan's Eyes Only, or whatever the next House Marik-focused book will be. The Spirit Cats and rest of Clan Protectorate are already becoming divided over whether to protect the Wolf Empire or not, i think Kisho will be the carrot Alaric can dangle in front of the Spirit Cats to get them to firmly jump.
I can see this happening
The Watch go out and find him bringing him to Terra then Alarc releases him and his remaining Cats with Wolf Mechs and the Protectorate falls in line
Kishos first act to give Rikkard an uncontested Bloodname and make him Khan with the ilKhans blessing
Minor internal turmoil keeps Spirit Cats on defence for initial period afterwards but they come out on ilKhans side
There will be something. Kisho was in the Legends book as ilClan Era Character. That alone (almost) guarantees some sort of expansion and follow up to the end of the Nova Cats in the Combine civil war. If he's going to show up in this cycle of source books, odds are its going to be in Dominions Divided.
Also very possible but I feel Dominions Divided is going to be Ghost Bear, Combine, Raven and Davion focused which would leave the Nova Cat angle a footnote, unless said footnote is the Nova Cat survivors hot dropping onto the Combine homeworld and eliminating the Kurita family... >:D it might be too busy
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I can see this happening
The Watch go out and find him bringing him to Terra then Alarc releases him and his remaining Cats with Wolf Mechs and the Protectorate falls in line
Kishos first act to give Rikkard an uncontested Bloodname and make him Khan with the ilKhans blessing
Minor internal turmoil keeps Spirit Cats on defence for initial period afterwards but they come out on ilKhans side
Also very possible but I feel Dominions Divided is going to be Ghost Bear, Combine, Raven and Davion focused which would leave the Nova Cat angle a footnote, unless said footnote is the Nova Cat survivors hot dropping onto the Combine homeworld and eliminating the Kurita family... >:D it might be too busy
I suspect that its up to the writers who want bring up the project. I get the impression that interested writer will pitch the idea and CGI will decide it fits in their plans in the future. I think situation more fluid as far stuff like that.
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So I'm hyped seeing the newest ilClan RecGuide have the MW4 Hellhound in it, because it's the Hellcat (Hellhound II), and I'm thinking it might be a Clan Nova Cat machine. cERLL-heavy weaponry? Check. Cat in the name? Check. FedCom civil war era Spheroid Clan production (at least the MW4 version was)--check. I mean, it's not perfect but I liked that 'mech in the game and its design is pretty great as well.
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Confirmed: with the Falcons basically stealing the idea for the Conjurer 6 and remaking it as the Hellcat.
In MW4 it’s quite good IMO: fast skirmisher to lead other mediums and lights in the early missions. In the TT I think it would perform similar roles, but the Conjurer 6 is a bit too slow for that so I could see it joining heavier stars for the same skirmisher role.
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In MW4 it and the Shadow Cat were my favourite mediums by a long way now they are both Nova Cat 8)
And we get a featured pilot
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Also very possible but I feel Dominions Divided is going to be Ghost Bear, Combine, Raven and Davion focused which would leave the Nova Cat angle a footnote, unless said footnote is the Nova Cat survivors hot dropping onto the Combine homeworld and eliminating the Kurita family... >:D it might be too busy
Kisho is the only character from the ilClan Era in Legends that hasn't shown up in any capacity since the fall of Terra.
I expect to see something, even if it's only an easter egg in DD. Otherwise we are hitting the point where is has been just gone for 20 real world years, before he pops back in and does something Legendary. I also fee like ilKhans Eyes is going to be dealing with so many loose ends by the time that drops there isn't going to be a lot of space for much else.
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Kisho is the only character from the ilClan Era in Legends that hasn't shown up in any capacity since the fall of Terra.
I expect to see something, even if it's only an easter egg in DD. Otherwise we are hitting the point where is has been just gone for 20 real world years, before he pops back in and does something Legendary. I also fee like ilKhans Eyes is going to be dealing with so many loose ends by the time that drops there isn't going to be a lot of space for much else.
I honestly dread hearing more about Kisho Nova Cat because I have the sneaking suspicion that, if not left a deliberate mystery, Clan Nova Cat is destined to be destroyed. Of course I hope that he and his coterie regroup and form a spearhead vanguard to remake and retake Clan Nova Cat from the remnants languishing in the Clan Protectorate, but--
I'm expecting they write that Kisho died out in black space, his samples of the Nova Cat bloodnames lost forever. Simply put, I don't think that the powers that be are terribly interested in the story of Clan Nova Cat.
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I would love to be wrong about it, but I sorta get the same feeling of dread whenever I hear something involving the Nova Cats myself. Their past track record has not been great in that aspect. Everytime they show up, SOMETHING horrible happens to them and they just get kicked down an even lower rung. I'm not sure how much further they can go considering the genocide, but I'm sure they'll find a way.
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In April, it will be ten real years since Nova Cats were annihilated in one page of the Era Report. Ask yourself how much do we know about their failed uprising? Can you name at least a couple of Nova Cat clusters from the time of the rebellion? And now name any other faction with a bunch of fans that has existed in the universe for a long time and cannot even play scenarios about their own death due to the lack of basic information. In my opinion, this is all you need to know about the attitude to Nova Cats.
Kisho in the Legends certainly supports some kind of hope. But the absence of any related announcements does not set up an optimistic mood. Maybe we should wait another ten years?
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To this day, I loathe that the Nova Cat rebellion failed as comprehensively as it did. I think a great opportunity to actually have the rebellion achieve its aims (like, say, the independent Irece Prefecture they wanted, and Katana solidifying her hold on Dieron, forcing a tense détente between the two sides) was squandered in a blink-and-you-miss-it conflict that was never really given its due. I very, very much would've enjoyed seeing a Draconis Combine split between Yori/Toranaga and Emi Kurita/Katana Tormark/Nova Cats, where one side could embody the hardliners/old guard Combine and the other something more progressive and altogether new. Wasted opportunities!
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I think that TPTB wrote themselves into a corner by wanting to both have the results of the Nova Cat Rebellion (the elimination of the Nova Cats and ex-Dragons Fury forces) and move into the Combine Invasion of the Federated Suns. The Combine could not realistically invade the Suns if they were divided, so the division had to be eliminated quickly.
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I think that TPTB wrote themselves into a corner by wanting to both have the results of the Nova Cat Rebellion (the elimination of the Nova Cats and ex-Dragons Fury forces) and move into the Combine Invasion of the Federated Suns. The Combine could not realistically invade the Suns if they were divided, so the division had to be eliminated quickly.
Exactly and you couldn't have the Federated Suns not getting a beat down
Honestly if WizKids hadn't saved the Nova Cats in their DA timeline I think the Nova Cats could and probably should have died in the Jihad or the 2nd War, it was time for that part of the Clan the Jihad could easily have been their swansong
The Spirit Cats being inheritors of the Legacy arise from the Republics ashes
That's how i see the rebellion now "housekeeping" cleaning up Wizkids mess. Without the Rebellion very little of the Spirit Cat story changes except they don't meet Kisho
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I think that TPTB wrote themselves into a corner by wanting to both have the results of the Nova Cat Rebellion (the elimination of the Nova Cats and ex-Dragons Fury forces) and move into the Combine Invasion of the Federated Suns. The Combine could not realistically invade the Suns if they were divided, so the division had to be eliminated quickly.
The Nova Cat Rebellion was already planned by Wizkids. It was one of their last Origins event, where the Nova Cats led the rebellion for Daisuke Kurita. At that event, the Nova Cats won.
Truth be told, the Nova Cat rebellion was doomed from the start. From what we know, the Nova Cats had 4 Galaxies of troops roughly, probably no more than 12 clusters total. 3 of the 4 Dieron Regiments sided with them under Katana Tormark. 12 Clusters + 3 Regiments versus nearly 30 regiments of Kuritan troops is a losing proposition, even with surprise on their side.
That's how i see the rebellion now "housekeeping" cleaning up Wizkids mess. Without the Rebellion very little of the Spirit Cat story changes except they don't meet Kisho
Again, the Rebellion was already planned and being put into the motions by Wizkids. Only they planned on having the Nova Cats win, which... would have certainly complicated matters. Or perhaps they would have acknowledged the Origins result by letting more Nova Cats escape.
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To "win" they'd have needed to occupy Luthien, execute the Kurita family and install a government I'd have been down with that. Problem as you said it just doesn't work in the Grand scheme of things if it were pre Jihad with the Nova Cat navy maybe, shame they didn't win the Leviathan it would have made a nice Ark
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Exactly and you couldn't have the Federated Suns not getting a beat down
I mean, you could have. I would not have complained. But yes, TPTB definitely wanted the Suns to have a losing fight against the Kuritans and they needed a united Combine to do that. And that meant the Cats had to go. I agree the Cats probably should have fully joined the Republic during the Jihad.
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To "win" they'd have needed to occupy Luthien, execute the Kurita family and install a government I'd have been down with that. Problem as you said it just doesn't work in the Grand scheme of things if it were pre Jihad with the Nova Cat navy maybe, shame they didn't win the Leviathan it would have made a nice Ark
They already had the Kurita family in their pocket. They had the legit heir and his mother on their side. They were actually the LOYALISTS in this escapade. The issue ended up being (as they wrote it) they lacked popular support and no one rallied to them. Heck, their oathmaster was also in the line of succession, even if he publicly renounced it.
All in all, I agree with Tassa. It was a waste of a good plot thread, and to me seemed more of an expedient way to get rid of something they didnt want to touch on anymore.
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I wonder if Kisho ends the same way as a "legend" thus securing his spot in that book, his Mech was found, not saying he couldn't have another
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I wonder if Kisho ends the same way as a "legend" thus securing his spot in that book, his Mech was found, not saying he couldn't have another
Then why land him in the ilClan section vs. the Dark Age section.
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Then why land him in the ilClan section vs. the Dark Age section.
That's a good point
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Then why land him in the ilClan section vs. the Dark Age section.
Honestly? It feels like padding. It feels like they haven't developed the era and so they're throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. They have their overarching story but are struggling to piece together the actual organic bits and pieces that make up a historic event. At least, that's how it feels to me.
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They already had the Kurita family in their pocket. They had the legit heir and his mother on their side. They were actually the LOYALISTS in this escapade. The issue ended up being (as they wrote it) they lacked popular support and no one rallied to them. Heck, their oathmaster was also in the line of succession, even if he publicly renounced it.
All in all, I agree with Tassa. It was a waste of a good plot thread, and to me seemed more of an expedient way to get rid of something they didnt want to touch on anymore.
I am surprised why noble samurai with hypertrophied notions of honor did not open their bellies by supporting a rootless bastard in the war and not the rightful heir to the throne. That's all you need to know about Kurita's "honor".
Apparently, the TPTB goal was simply to destroy Nova Cats without really bothering with the logic of what is happening.
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The ruling Kurita line was compromised by Theodore's innovation. You need to look back to the historical management of Japanese Emperors. Ideally you puppet them. In this case the Black Dragons finally won.
If TPTB wanted the Nova Cats dead they would be. They provided an out with the Spirit Cats, who then got actual Irece Prefecture Nova Cat refugees. The Kishi option has been reinforced over the past decade so there are now thousands of them and offers an option if the Spirit Cat situation in Empire Alone goes bad.
Some Nova Cat players bemoan the lack of a patron. Look at the Taurians, or Outworlds Alliance, or Rasalhague Dominion, or the half of Sea Fox not associated with Julian Davion, the Wolves, or the Spirit Cats.That is what the lack of support looks like. Stasis for a decade or more. You got a character in Legends. You are relevant. That is more than many could say.
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Can you please name at least one Nova Cats cluster at the time of the uprising?
How many clusters did they have in total?
How many galaxies did Nova Cats have at the time of the uprising?
Where did their entire merchant fleet go?
Do Spirit Cats or Nova Cats in CP have Sib groups?
And the trials for Blood Names?
We don't know the basic information for the faction. Only theories.
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The ruling Kurita line was compromised by Theodore's innovation. You need to look back to the historical management of Japanese Emperors. Ideally you puppet them. In this case the Black Dragons finally won.
If TPTB wanted the Nova Cats dead they would be. They provided an out with the Spirit Cats, who then got actual Irece Prefecture Nova Cat refugees. The Kishi option has been reinforced over the past decade so there are now thousands of them and offers an option if the Spirit Cat situation in Empire Alone goes bad.
Some Nova Cat players bemoan the lack of a patron. Look at the Taurians, or Outworlds Alliance, or Rasalhague Dominion, or the half of Sea Fox not associated with Julian Davion, the Wolves, or the Spirit Cats.That is what the lack of support looks like. Stasis for a decade or more. You got a character in Legends. You are relevant. That is more than many could say.
+1 I think there's more to come, BattleTech mysteries and secrets have a way of coming back and causing a bit of a stir.
I like the idea of thousands with Kisho ;)
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Can you please name at least one Nova Cats cluster at the time of the uprising?
I believe 1 or 2 were mentioned in the 3145 TROs.
How many clusters did they have in total?
How many galaxies did Nova Cats have at the time of the uprising?
At least 12 Clusters spread over 4 Galaxies. You had the 3 Galaxies of Cats from the Clix Game (Alpha, Tau, and Xi Provisional), and there was a fourth galaxy mentioned in the Kurita 3145 Tro. Shitara also had a Garrison Galaxy.
Where did their entire merchant fleet go?
Presumably genocided by the Combine and assimilated.
Do Spirit Cats or Nova Cats in CP have Sib groups?
Yes. In To Ride the Chimera, Julietta Marik is walking in the Dormuth, Marik, in the Clan Headquarters, and sees large groups of children running around with sibko instructors. She wonders to herself where all these kids and civilians came from. The Spirit Cats certainly brought more than just warriors to Marik.
And the trials for Blood Names?
Sariah Vozka was not bloodnamed during the Clix game yet has her bloodname in Shrapnel #10. Why Rikkard Nova Cat still doesn't have his is a complete mystery; maybe he is refusing to use his until he is 100% sure all the other Nova Cats are dead.
We don't know the basic information for the faction. Only theories.
I have said before and agree that the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate could be a great source for a novel about how a society that survives genocide can rebuild, and all the various questions that involves can be examined. But write now TPTB seem interested in settling all the major factions first.
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I believe 1 or 2 were mentioned in the 3145 TROs.
No. Only galaxies are mentioned.
At least 12 Clusters spread over 4 Galaxies. You had the 3 Galaxies of Cats from the Clix Game (Alpha, Tau, and Xi Provisional), and there was a fourth galaxy mentioned in the Kurita 3145 Tro. Shitara also had a Garrison Galaxy.
Yes, but nowhere is it said directly. Maybe four, maybe six. This is what I meant when I wrote about theories.
Presumably genocided by the Combine and assimilated.
Maybe yes, maybe no. Kisho and his survivors flew away on something.
Yes. In To Ride the Chimera, Julietta Marik is walking in the Dormuth, Marik, in the Clan Headquarters, and sees large groups of children running around with sibko instructors. She wonders to herself where all these kids and civilians came from. The Spirit Cats certainly brought more than just warriors to Marik.
The novel takes place a year after the conquest of Marik. These are sib groups from Republican enclaves.
Sariah Vozka was not bloodnamed during the Clix game yet has her bloodname in Shrapnel #10. Why Rikkard Nova Cat still doesn't have his is a complete mystery; maybe he is refusing to use his until he is 100% sure all the other Nova Cats are dead.
She had six years to get a Blood Name from the time of the Clix Game to the destruction of the clan Nova Cats . What's going on now?
I have said before and agree that the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate could be a great source for a novel about how a society that survives genocide can rebuild, and all the various questions that involves can be examined. But write now TPTB seem interested in settling all the major factions first.
А novel would be great. But to begin with, it would be nice to have at least some information the size of a page or two. Because at the moment Spirit Cats played a deeply episodic and secondary role in comparison with Sea Foxes in the "Empire Alone". Without details about the internal structure. At the same time, the role of Spirit Cats in the foundation and functioning of the Clan Protectorate is gradually greatly diminished. It turns out that Lady Juliet was allegedly cured by Sea Foxes ("Hunting Season").
About Nova Cats, there is nothing new at all in ten years except for one paragraph in the "Legends". And even a simple mention is an extremely rare phenomenon. When the warlord Toranaga remembers his life, he does not even remember about some kind of rebellion and genocide. Before the conquest of Avalon, in his opinion, he was not particularly noted for anything, except that he drove some gangs of raiders on the borders of the Syndicate. It's in "Damocles Sanction". Those who dreamed of what kind of revenge can forget about it. Bhatia died of old age, and Toranaga did not even remember about some Nova Cats before his death. And there were so many theories.... Or, for example, the paladin Tirina Drummond, who died on Terra. Do you think there is at least one mention that she is a Nova Cat in new books. In the books of the Clix game era, this was emphasized. There are no words at all in the new ones.
And all this would be complete whining if not for one simple fact. When other factions were destroyed, they received separate books and whole series of books, or at least actively featured in sourcebooks, such as the "Wars of Reaving". Nova Cats were destroyed in one page in the Era Report. Without details. Can you name another faction with the same fate? Moreover, Nova Cats are far from the last faction in terms of the number of fans. And this is surprising.
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As expected, there is absolutely nothing in Dominion Divided about Nova cats and Kisho
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As expected, there is absolutely nothing in Dominion Divided about Nova cats and Kisho
Ooooo it's out ;)
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As expected, there is absolutely nothing in Dominion Divided about Nova cats and Kisho
Doesn't break my heart too much. Any opportunity to read about the Dracs and the Bears getting their butts kicked is a good one.
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As expected, there is absolutely nothing in Dominion Divided about Nova cats and Kisho
I mean why should there be? There were no Dracs or Bears in Empire Alone.
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I mean why should there be? There were no Dracs or Bears in Empire Alone.
Some assumed that there would be Kisho with the company. Since he has nothing to do with the Protectorate and ran away towards the Periphery. And since he is the only character from the "Legends" who has not yet appeared in the Ilklan Era. I had no doubt that we would definitely not see Nova Cats there. This is the finest hour of Bears, about which literally half of the book. And at least Davions.
The Cats (both Spirit and Nova) have their cameo role in the "Empire Alone" and that's enough for them. Their fans don't deserve more.
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Some assumed that there would be Kisho with the company. Since he has nothing to do with the Protectorate and ran away towards the Periphery. And since he is the only character from the "Legends" who has not yet appeared in the Ilklan Era. I had no doubt that we would definitely not see Nova Cats there. This is the finest hour of Bears, about which literally half of the book and at least Davions.
The Cats (both Spirit and Nova) have their cameo role in the "Empire Alone" and that's enough for them. Their fans don't deserve more.
Patience is a virtue, our time will come
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Patience is a virtue, our time will come
As a devoted Nova Cat, I really really want to believe this. I've spent the last six months trying to go back through every reference I can find canonically to our beloved Clan.
Part of me wants to remain optimistic that the Nova Cats will have our time in the lore again. There's a huge fan base, a big lingering mystery about where Kisho took the Nova Cats, the refugees in the Clan Protectorate, and the Clan has a long interesting history in the BT franchise outside of the "Big Four" Clans.
As a fan, I can imagine all sorts of cool possibilities. Somewhere spinward in the Deep Periphery? Did we meet up with the Michigan Tribe who remembered Khan Rosse defending Khan McEvedy? Or maybe the Fidelis repaid the debt they owe us and gave us a safe place to hide? Heck, maybe we became some ultra-secret unit in the DCMS like the Izanagi Warriors?
I can think of so many scenarios that fit the rich possibilities that we have always been given about the Nova Cats.
But then I feel jaded and think: the Nova Cats have never been given prominence in cannon: we are always side-characters. The Nova Cats are always the "second best" clan, who despite their skill and "visions", never actually achieve any success. And then I worry that for the writers, Clan Nova Cat is a "best-supporting actor in a historical sci-fi military drama," and - in fact - our time won't actually ever come. We're not one of the Big Four and we've been written out.
I hope I am wrong. The Nova Cats have so much potential storywise. And I don't want to believe that we've been written out, even if I am afraid that maybe we have.
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The novel takes place a year after the conquest of Marik. These are sib groups from Republican enclaves.
You asked if there were sibkos. There were. If you're asking if there are recently decanted sibkos of trueborns or freeborns, we don't know. We do know the Spirit Cats are training tons of freeborns, and apparently have an expanding warrior caste given that they had warriors in the Beta Striker Cluster.
А novel would be great. But to begin with, it would be nice to have at least some information the size of a page or two. Because at the moment Spirit Cats played a deeply episodic and secondary role in comparison with Sea Foxes in the "Empire Alone". Without details about the internal structure. At the same time, the role of Spirit Cats in the foundation and functioning of the Clan Protectorate is gradually greatly diminished. It turns out that Lady Juliet was allegedly cured by Sea Foxes ("Hunting Season").
Could easily be an in-universe bias or unreliable narrator. Empire Alone opened up with Rikkard and Julietta there, so it was nice they got some fiction time.
About Nova Cats, there is nothing new at all in ten years except for one paragraph in the "Legends". And even a simple mention is an extremely rare phenomenon. When the warlord Toranaga remembers his life, he does not even remember about some kind of rebellion and genocide. Before the conquest of Avalon, in his opinion, he was not particularly noted for anything, except that he drove some gangs of raiders on the borders of the Syndicate. It's in "Damocles Sanction". Those who dreamed of what kind of revenge can forget about it. Bhatia died of old age, and Toranaga did not even remember about some Nova Cats before his death. And there were so many theories.... Or, for example, the paladin Tirina Drummond, who died on Terra. Do you think there is at least one mention that she is a Nova Cat in new books. In the books of the Clix game era, this was emphasized. There are no words at all in the new ones.
And all this would be complete whining if not for one simple fact. When other factions were destroyed, they received separate books and whole series of books, or at least actively featured in sourcebooks, such as the "Wars of Reaving". Nova Cats were destroyed in one page in the Era Report. Without details. Can you name another faction with the same fate? Moreover, Nova Cats are far from the last faction in terms of the number of fans. And this is surprising.
The Nova Cats got bits and pieces in the TROs from what I remember, that's how we learned about the Shitara Provisional Galaxy for instance, or Nova Cats who escaped the genocide getting to the Protectorate.
I do wonder why TPTB are so intent on giving Falcons and Wolves just so many books while others, even major factions like Marik get the dregs. Perhaps laying out a multi-year plan where each year each faction gets a book, and certain subfactions get books in a rotating pattern would be better to guarantee interest.
I do think IlKhan Eye's Only is where Kisho will appear. We'll have to wait and see.
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Big states doing big things drive stories
Honestly if there were more novels set during the jihad I'm sure the WoB would have a fair share of books of their own (something that could be good Isle of the Blessed is great)
Back on topic the Nova Cats like Marik, the periphery states, the Hella Horses, Sea Fox and Home Clans all play supporting roles they are all interesting factions but if you want a faction that drives the story you want the big 4 Succession States or the big 3 Clans in the current era they all have the territory and firepower to drive a story set in a universe driven by war
To be fair the I can't think of many books set in the Magistracy, Taurian Concordat or Outworlds Alliance and they've been around a helluva lot longer, arguably they all could cary a story or two but they are not going to drive a story alone
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I would love to read a Nova Cat novel every bit as much as I'd love to read a Magistracy or Concordat novel (literally tell the story of the New Colony Region becoming the Fronc Reaches in novel form), and I personally hope that we get to see both the return of Kisho and his people and the Nova Cats bringing something unique to the table in the Protectorate (get their mystics out there precogging, damn it, this stuff writes itself!).
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Big states doing big things drive stories
This feels like a major failing of the writers. Yes, there need to be big things happening in the overarching narratives, but that is no excuse to ignore the smaller, relatable, human aspect. There are what--? Trillions of people in the Inner Sphere, across hundreds of billion-strong and thousands of million-strong planets? Stopping, taking a moment to dive into the actual on-the-ground realities of unending war à la Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket would be easy, or one could create a series of vignettes illustrating how changing planetary ownership does and doesn't change daily life...It's lazy is what it is. It reduces human agency to a setpiece and ignores the fact that small states doing small things can have big consequences: just look at the past century...or past year. I know they want to produce big sweeping changes and wow everyone with cliffhangers of "what'll happen next?" but honestly it just makes the world of Battletech feel sterile and artificial. (I also have this opinion about a lot of things in-universe--the Clans should not be able to function given what we know about human developmental psych, but I digress)
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This feels like a major failing of the writers. Yes, there need to be big things happening in the overarching narratives, but that is no excuse to ignore the smaller, relatable, human aspect. There are what--? Trillions of people in the Inner Sphere, across hundreds of billion-strong and thousands of million-strong planets? Stopping, taking a moment to dive into the actual on-the-ground realities of unending war à la Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket would be easy, or one could create a series of vignettes illustrating how changing planetary ownership does and doesn't change daily life...It's lazy is what it is. It reduces human agency to a setpiece and ignores the fact that small states doing small things can have big consequences: just look at the past century...or past year. I know they want to produce big sweeping changes and wow everyone with cliffhangers of "what'll happen next?" but honestly it just makes the world of Battletech feel sterile and artificial. (I also have this opinion about a lot of things in-universe--the Clans should not be able to function given what we know about human developmental psych, but I digress)
I just want them to stop writing stories about "THE LAST JADE FALCON SOLAHMA LEFT BEHIND WHEN THEY WENT TO TERRA MUST NOW HONORABLY DEFEND PLANET X!!!" Or Clan Wolf.
We've had ;
Redemptions Rites Featuring Clan Wolf leftbehinds
No Substitute for Victory Featuring Left behind Jade Falcons
A Question of Survival Featuring Jade Falcon left behinds
Elements of Treason: Duty Featuring left behind Falcons
And now Lethal Lessons Featuring left behind Wolves
That's not to count all of the Shrapnel stories about Wolves and Falcons (Including one in #11.
No Hell's Horses Novels, no Raven novels, one Sea Fox, one Ghost Bear novel, no Spirit Cat novel.
Oh yeah, and a Clan Invasion Smoke Jaguar novel covering old topics from a new POV.
Give us a Spirit Cat or another Marik novel, please, there can't seriously be this many people clamoring for left-behind Wolves and Falcons. The Spirit Cats at this point have more Clusters of Warriors than either branch of Jade Falcon put together, yet it's 3 novels to SC 0 novels. Hell's Horses have 40 Clusters yet no novels.
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FWIW, the Horses are getting a novel soon-ish: the last Elements of Treason book.
And I couldn't agree more with your sentiment.
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You’re not wrong and I don’t want to disagree to be the devils advocate… but at least with the Wolves they were the center point against the RAF and the Falcons for the last decade IRL. I can see a lot of novels about them. Doesn’t excuse the lack of other factions fiction at all.
That being said, while it not be in everyone’s skill set, Shrapnel does accept submissions so theoretically if you want to read about something you can attempt to write about something. I know it’s a process not for everyone but there is an option out there.
However: I am hoping for a new Field Manual circa 3152 or so once all these current books (like Tamar Rising and Dominions Divided) are done because the military sizes of everyone has changed so much including the Clans that it would be nice to see what everyone has.
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You’re not wrong and I don’t want to disagree to be the devils advocate… but at least with the Wolves they were the center point against the RAF and the Falcons for the last decade IRL. I can see a lot of novels about them. Doesn’t excuse the lack of other factions fiction at all.
I wouldn't mind a ton of novels about the Wolves if they were each, well, novel and unique. But Lethal Lessons sounds like Redemption Rites and No Substitute for Victory only more Wolf-focused. If it was a novel about the IlClan on Terra re-organizing and planning that'd be completely different.
That being said, while it is not in everyone’s skill set, Shrapnel does accept submissions so theoretically if you want to read about something you can attempt to write about something. I know it’s a process not for everyone but there is an option out there.
I actually do have a short Dark Age Spirit Cat story submission waiting to be submitted once they accept/reject my first submission about Dark Age SwordSworn. It's a long process though, I guess Catalyst is stretched thin and can't afford too many reviewers for Shrapnel.
Glad to hear the Hell's Horses are getting a novel though.
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From what I hear there is a long wait list so I’m sorry. Look forward to seeing it though!
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I will explain my point of view a little. I understand perfectly well that Nova/Spirit Cats are far from the main players. I'm talking about the fact that Nova Cats is the faction that was practically destroyed somewhere behind the scene and since then we have little information about both the uprising itself and the survivors from it. This is despite the fact that Nova Cats are traditionally included in the top popular clans following the main three.
I'll give you an example. I want to play a scenario game on the rebellion. And if for the forces of the DC I can name forces involved in the war, then for Cats it will be something like "some forces of Nova Cats". Without specifying clusters. Because we just don't know it. And it's actually been ten years.
It's one thing when you actually have few news about a healthy friend, and quite another when you have few news about a friend who has been lying near death in intensive care for a long time. And you know very little about what happened to him at all . Do you feel the difference? Fortunately, here we are not talking about a friend from real life :)
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I will explain my point of view a little. I understand perfectly well that Nova/Spirit Cats are far from the main players. I'm talking about the fact that Nova Cats is the faction that was practically destroyed somewhere behind the scene and since then we have little information about both the uprising itself and the survivors from it. This is despite the fact that Nova Cats are traditionally included in the top popular clans following the main three.
I'll give you an example. I want to play a scenario game on the rebellion. And if for the forces of the DC I can name forces involved in the war, then for Cats it will be something like "some forces of Nova Cats". Without specifying clusters. Because we just don't know it. And it's actually been ten years.
It's one thing when you actually have few news about a healthy friend, and quite another when you have few news about a friend who has been lying near death in intensive care for a long time. And you know very little about what happened to him at all . Do you feel the difference? Fortunately, here we are not talking about a friend from real life :)
I like your analogy. It's as if we heard news that a really popular friend was in the hospital, but we heard very little to nothing about how, why, or what happened. Just that they were on life support and no one can give any details.
I do wonder though, if the writers didn't think they were clear enough. I just reread the sections of Field Manual: 3145 and the language is along the lines of "the Nova Cats were wiped off the face of the Inner Sphere" or "From a fighting standpoint, Clan Nova Cat was no more."
Maybe they thought they were clear. But I agree with you and feel a similar frustration. We get nothing about units involved, etc. We were just basically narratively written out.
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As expected, there is absolutely nothing in Dominion Divided about Nova cats and Kisho
They mention Irece. This 100% confirms that the Bears find and repatriate Kisho and the Nova Cats ;D
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I do think IlKhan Eye's Only is where Kisho will appear. We'll have to wait and see.
Kisho went in the wrong direction for ilKhan's Eyes Only. More likely to show up in the Raven vs Davion book that was just teased.
Redemptions Rites Featuring Clan Wolf leftbehinds
No Substitute for Victory Featuring Left behind Jade Falcons
A Question of Survival Featuring Jade Falcon left behinds
Elements of Treason: Duty Featuring left behind Falcons
And now Lethal Lessons Featuring left behind Wolves
The Novels follow the source books. The Spirit Cats aren't big, but they keep showing up. A Shrapnel entry telling us of a Spirit Cat mission to save survivors of the Blue Striker Cluster sounds like a story in the works. Have faith.
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Kisho went in the wrong direction for ilKhan's Eyes Only. More likely to show up in the Raven vs Davion book that was just teased.
An interesting idea that appeals to my need for symmetry: perhaps Kisho et al end up becoming a parallel faction to the Scorpions, just on the other side of the Sphere, out past the Snow Ravens? They occupy a similar niche as the Scorpions do, also: pariahs from their main group that have been abjured, but are still distinctly Clan in culture and outlook.
Just a brain fart from my addled mind, but something to dream about.
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An interesting idea that appeals to my need for symmetry: perhaps Kisho et al end up becoming a parallel faction to the Scorpions, just on the other side of the Sphere, out past the Snow Ravens? They occupy a similar niche as the Scorpions do, also: pariahs from their main group that have been abjured, but are still distinctly Clan in culture and outlook.
Just a brain fart from my addled mind, but something to dream about.
Not sure that this needs Spoilers, but I think you are right that the most likely scenario is that Kisho's Nova Cats are somewhere out in the Periphery, likely either past the Raven Alliance or The Barrens. That said, I'm not as sure that the Nova Cats would set up something like Clan Goliath Scorpion and the Scorpion Empire.
Part of my rationale is that Clan Nova Cat has always been guided as a Clan by two things: 1) Visions - and this includes Kisho's, and 2) devotion to the Star League. It seems like any version of the Nova Cats is going to be driven by the Clan's visions for itself and *probably* (although not necessarily) as members of the Star League.
(I think Paladin Drummond is another example of a Cat still defending what she perceived as the Star League and the remaining Nova Cats who were part of the Republic).
Although that does raise the question in my mind of what would Clan Nova Cat look like if it cast off its duty to the Star League? Would we still be Clan Nova Cat then? And if so, what would be the new vision for the Cats? The Spirit Cats? Something else?
If anything, I think the closest analog to Kisho's Cats is the Fidelis or the Minnesota Tribe/Clan Wolverine.
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I'd say the Nova Cats are little if anything like either group
The Fidelis are super elite, they have dedicated their lives to being the best warriors just like the faction they came from, they are also sneaky willing to do the dirty stuff to survive
The Minnesota Tribe are god knows where and seem to care little for what the Inner Sphere holds
Honestly I'd love it if the Nova Cats found what was left of them. Showing that even infighting took hold of them in the end (its the way of BattleTech just look at the Bears)
The Scorpions and Nova Cats actually could have a very interesting dynamic together, it would give their Empire a counter in the deep periphery, it would also set the region up similarly to what was there before the Scorpions arrived
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The logical temporary home for Kisho and his company is Wayside 5. For many reasons:
- Cats are well aware of this world, Santin West has personally been there twice.
- There must have been some infrastructure left after the Fidelis Jaguars.
- This would be a logical continuation of the arc of Cats helping Jaguars. It's not just that there were visions there.The logical home for Kisho and his company is Wayside 5. For many reasons:
- Cats are well aware of this world, Santin West has personally been there twice
- There must have been some infrastructure left after the Fidelis-Jaguars
- This would be a logical continuation of the arc of Cats helping Jaguars in "Forever Faithful". So this story would make sense for Nova Cats. Visions like "save your enemy and it will save you in the future."
The idea with Scorpions hardly has a place to be. At least because the scorpions in 3150 have not yet heard anything about the fate of Nova Cats. And from the point of view of Kisho's personal plot, it doesn't make sense. Don't forget, he's a Kurita. He didn't find the killer of Kev Ross and the rest of the mystics.
Kisho is the character who can come up with the greatest number of different plot options. Starting from the likeness of the Battlestar Galactica and ending with the unexpected accession to the throne of the Draconis Combine. The usual joining to the Scorpion Empire will simply be a repetition of the path of Conor Rood. And it was hardly necessary to wait 10 years for this.
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Wayside is also far enough away from the Kerensky Cluster that the Star Adders/Cloud Cobras probably won't stumble on them while out on their "stay off our lawn" patrols of the Deep Periphery and nuke the poor kitties from orbit.
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I'm hoping I'm wrong, but I get some serious 'The Protectorate is on borrowed time' vibes from recent events.
And Nova Cats showing up in the recent GB focused product would just be even worse news for the Cats, if past interactions were any clue. You know, executing fleeing refugees from a genocide?
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The logical home for Kisho and his company is Wayside 5. For many reasons:
- Cats are well aware of this world, Santin West has personally been there twice
- There must have been some infrastructure left after the Fidelis-Jaguars
- This would be a logical continuation of the arc of Cats helping Jaguars in "Forever Faithful". So this story would make sense for Nova Cats. Visions like "save your enemy and it will save you in the future."
I like this a lot and the logic seems right to me. Basically, like a wounded Cat: hide, protect, strengthen. And a known, out-of-the-way world, which has mystical significance, like Wayside 5, would make sense. And, unless I am mistaken, the only people who even know of the existence of Wayside 5 are Fidelis/Smoke Jaguar and the Cats (although the Scorpions, might?).
While *technically* Kisho is in the genetic line of succession from Theodore Kurita and therefore more legitimate than Yori Kurita, it would be a (freakin' awesome) stretch for him to assume the Dragon Throne. It would be civil war in the Combine for sure. Although I'm sure Kisho wants revenge against Matsuhari Toranaga, so there is definitely a cool story there!
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Wayside is also far enough away from the Kerensky Cluster that the Star Adders/Cloud Cobras probably won't stumble on them while out on their "stay off our lawn" patrols of the Deep Periphery and nuke the poor kitties from orbit.
You've got me thinking about Wayside 5 now. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Doesn't Inanna Nova Cat, in telling Trent about Wayside 5, say that the Nova Cat Khans know of a secret leg of the Exodus Road? Am I remembering that correctly?
In which case, given that Kisho has iron wombs, in theory, the Cats could set up on those worlds (somewhere near Wayside V), including potentially the planets Cat's Eye (EC-EY-4189) and Boltin (EC-EY-4170), which had Nova Cat bases.
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I would find it absolutely delightful if Kisho and the Cats he's wrangling ended up settling on a world called Cat's Eye.
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I would find it absolutely delightful if Kisho and the Cats he's wrangling ended up settling on a world called Cat's Eye.
There would be a kind of delicious justice in that.... 😹
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I'm hoping I'm wrong, but I get some serious 'The Protectorate is on borrowed time' vibes from recent events.
And Nova Cats showing up in the recent GB focused product would just be even worse news for the Cats, if past interactions were any clue. You know, executing fleeing refugees from a genocide?
I think the Protectorate is going to survive and continue on. The Spirit Cats are too entrenched for House Marik to push out. I think they'll adopt a policy of ignoring the Cats so long as the Cats don't get in the way of Marik's invasion of the Clan Protectorate. But I haven't completely finished Empire Alone yet.
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I'm hoping I'm wrong, but I get some serious 'The Protectorate is on borrowed time' vibes from recent events.
And Nova Cats showing up in the recent GB focused product would just be even worse news for the Cats, if past interactions were any clue. You know, executing fleeing refugees from a genocide?
After how Alaric played the Bears (the strongest arguably) into a miniture civil war, he'll never accept the Spirit Cat/Sea Fox/Marik Protectorate
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I'm hoping I'm wrong, but I get some serious 'The Protectorate is on borrowed time' vibes from recent events.
I'm inclined to agree with you there. However, the vibe I'm catching is less "it's time for the Spirit Cats little social experiment to die" and more "oh lawdy, the sharkfoxes are really gonna step in it this time and here comes some karma." Kerensky willing, the Cats will actually weather being in the blast zone of someone else's mistakes, for once.
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I'm inclined to agree with you there. However, the vibe I'm catching is less "it's time for the Spirit Cats little social experiment to die" and more "oh lawdy, the sharkfoxes are really gonna step in it this time and here comes some karma." Kerensky willing, the Cats will actually weather being in the blast zone of someone else's mistakes, for once.
Clan ComShark is untouchable although if the Protectorate were to survive I feel Alaric will want one Clan in charge.
I like the idea of them absorbing the Shark Khanate (I know they are a lot smaller) it would take the Sharks down a couple of pegs and significantly increase the Cats strength/diversity
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Clan ComShark is untouchable although if the Protectorate were to survive I feel Alaric will want one Clan in charge.
I like the idea of them absorbing the Shark Khanate (I know they are a lot smaller) it would take the Sharks down a couple of pegs and significantly increase the Cats strength/diversity
Honestly, I think the converse would happen. The Sharkfoxes have entirely too many buyers to not be insanely resilient. Clan Nova Cat sticks with allies -- I can't see us turning on our biggest trading partner and the ones who went halfsies on most of our 'Mechs from the Jihad to the Dark Age. I think the fragmented bits of CNC would coalesce and accept being the groundside arm of the greater Clan. Nova Cat as garrisons and special operations, Sea Fox as orbital superiority and main battle.
edit: I am an idiot and didn't notice the Spirit Cat references. That said, my opinion remains unchanged.
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I'm hoping I'm wrong, but I get some serious 'The Protectorate is on borrowed time' vibes from recent events.
And Nova Cats showing up in the recent GB focused product would just be even worse news for the Cats, if past interactions were any clue. You know, executing fleeing refugees from a genocide?
The Sea Foxes are about to become untouchable with the HPG Restoration, Merc Bonding, and Arms dealing. As long as the Spirit Cats are functioning as the Marik Planetary militia for one of their core factory and warehouse world they are probably safe from everybody expect the Sea Foxes.
I will agree with you that the Protectorate as a province of the FWL is teetering on the Edge.
I know it's a bit of a Dark Horse option, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the FWL joining the 3rd League with two Clan dominated member states. The Clan Protectorate under the Cats and the Clan Commonwealth under Othar were the Marik-Steward Commonwealth used to be. I can see Kalasa making the case that the FWL is Clan enough (after some addtitional integration).
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Except the Regulans. 😂
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After how Alaric played the Bears (the strongest arguably) into a miniture civil war, he'll never accept the Spirit Cat/Sea Fox/Marik Protectorate
Agreed. Empire Alone seems to imply that Alaric a) wants to punish the Combine for killing the Nova Cats, AND b) that he might be leaning heavily on the Spirit Cats to bring the Protectorate to heel.
While I kind of doubt it, I suppose it's always possible the ilKhan might just reinstate the Spirit Cats as Clan Nova Cat in return for the Protectorate.
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Let's be realistic. Nova/Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate are of no particular value to Alaric. He can accept them or can crush them only based on his own mood. And it is unlikely that both layouts will greatly affect something. Just like the NC rebellion had no consequences. Few people in the universe remember this at all. Including direct participants.
The Nova Cats Mystics are another matter. Kisho's genes are a potential key to subjugating the entire DC to the IlClan. And this is the only thing that Nova Cats can really need to the Ilclan. Especially considering their abjuration. I wouldn't be surprised if this Chekhov gun doesn't fire in the future. This is, of course, if writers want to give Nova Cats a more important role than episodic mentions or another one-page genocide.
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Subjugation of the Draconis Combine, makes me think of the Clan Invasion - fun times ;D
On a serious not it could be a fun storyline though I'd think it wouldn't go anywhere unless Minoru himself was found in a cave or was preserved like Sun-Tzu Liao
Minoru's claims were revoked a long time ago, he was as much an outcast of that family as the Nova Cats were in the Combine
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Not much more than Theodore's illegitimate son ;) Especially if Yori dies without leaving an heir.
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Personally, the only interaction between the Combine and the surviving Cats that would make me happy would involve some form of revenge-based orbital bombardment from Kisho's bunch as they spin space donuts and flipped them the bird.
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Wow, lots of posts for Zombie Catgirls
Did something major just released, quiaff ?
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Wow, lots of posts for Zombie Catgirls
Did something major just released, quiaff ?
Neg; it is simply that we here at the CNC Music Factory are very good at commiserating with one another over our Clan's general lack of representation.
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Wow, lots of posts for Zombie Catgirls
Did something major just released, quiaff ?
A little bit in the Hellhound/Hellcat BattleMech
And lots of dreaming about orbital bombardment of Luthien and New Samarkand
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Neg; it is simply that we here at the CNC Music Factory are very good at commiserating with one another over our Clan's general lack of representation.
Well said, trothkin!
Although, the whole space-donut, orbital bombardment of Luthien does sound appealing.
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btw I saw you guys mention "IlKhan's Eyes Only", when does that come out ?
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btw I saw you guys mention "IlKhan's Eyes Only", when does that come out ?
Unknown. Though if it follows the schedule that Empire Alone did, probably sometime in the summer.
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btw I saw you guys mention "IlKhan's Eyes Only", when does that come out ?
I just asked this question earlier today in the New Releases Thread
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I just asked this question earlier today in the New Releases Thread
Do you have a link, quiaff ? Cannot seem to find it 8)
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Do you have a link, quiaff ? Cannot seem to find it 8)
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/upcoming-releases-xxvi-unboxing-days/msg1907233/#msg1907233
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A little bit in the Hellhound/Hellcat BattleMech
And lots of dreaming about orbital bombardment of Luthien and New Samarkand
Lots and LOTS of dreaming.
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/upcoming-releases-xxvi-unboxing-days/msg1907233/#msg1907233
Thank you
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Lots and LOTS of dreaming.
For in these dreams, what visions may come? Thinking about it now, a couple whiskies in, I think perhaps that aspect of Clan Nova Cat helps explain its popularity. While we wish to return to the Star League and we of course honor the Kerenskys' ideals...we ultimately trust in visions and prophecy, which are inherently forward-looking. Sure, other Clans enacted their changes and adaptations better, they never really asked nor acted upon the question, "what might be next for us?" Our Clan made mistakes along the way, but we always actively tried to change things.
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Our Clan made mistakes along the way, but we always actively tried to change things.
I like this. And this is also why the Nova Cat cannot die.
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Yeah, well, maybe we could afford to not stir the hornets nest quite as much if we ever get a reprieve. :D
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Yeah, well, maybe we could afford to not stir the hornets nest quite as much if we ever get a reprieve. :D
Maybe the Ghost Bears can commit less war crimes in the future too…
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Just as Clan Nova Cat always looks to the future, we also are aware of our past. The Ways of Seeing teach us to be mindful of how the threads of the past intertwine with the strands of the present and the future.
I'm not affiliated in any way, but recently Sven van der Plank posted a fantastic BattleTech lore video on YouTube entitled "Star League Civil War: Rim Worlds Republic Invasion". The video features a couple of nice segments of our founding Khan, Khan Philip Drummond: father of Khan Sandra Rosse (praise the name of she who gave us the Ways of Seeing).
If you haven't seen it yet and want to get insight as to why the Great Father valued our founding Khan, it's worth a watch. Also gives nice insight into the disillusionment the SLDF felt after Operation CHIEFTAIN and the Hegemony Campaign. Also has some great voice-overs from others (including Tex).
Thanks @SvenVanDerPlank for the shout-out to our great Khan!
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Maybe the Ghost Bears can commit less war crimes in the future too…
What war crimes do Bears have? War crimes against Nova Cats do not count. Nobody remembers much about them. Both among writers and fans and among the characters inside the universe. Why remember the genocide of hundreds of thousands or even millions of civilians? Several times. And no one ever answered. An ordinary event. And it was mostly the good guys who did it. Bears, Yori Kurita. It's not tragedies like Kentares or Edo to remember it often.
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The real question... When Kisho comes back. Will you back the...
or the
Maybe turning control over to a non-Bloodnameble Mystic is what will get Rikkard to finally get his Bloodname.
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The real question... When Kisho comes back. Will you back the...
or the
Maybe turning control over to a non-Bloodnameble Mystic is what will get Rikkard to finally get his Bloodname.
Nova Cats are Nova Cats. If the traditions of the Oathmaster and the Ways of Seeing are followed, and the Bloodname properly earned, then that warrior is a Nova Cat. I would love to see Rikkard win the Drummond, Rosse, or Leroux Bloodname.
For my own fire dancing ceremonies - and I think what Kisho ultimately accepted - the Spirit Cats *are* Nova Cats. And I don't care if we call ourselves Nova Cats, Spirit Cats, or something else - as long we are true to our Vision - like both Rikkard and Kisho, then we are Cats - true to General Kerensky's Vision.
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I agree with Cmerwin. Personally, it makes no difference to me. If the Clan is called Spirit Cats, but at the same time the warriors will have "nova cat" as the second name and in the name of the clusters - I'm OK with that. The main thing is that there would be legal succession. Genes, technology, tradition, culture. Yes, and from the point of view of "revival". Many are dissatisfied with the revival of factions. Spirit Cats do not need to be revived, they are already here. Strengthen them with all the surviving Cats with genes and technologies and we will get a full-fledged Clan of Cats with a slightly changed name. Which would be logical from the point of view of the storyline. Remember the visions of Kev Ross and why he created Spirit Cats at all. The only thing that does not fit into such a plot is the story of Kisho himself and the caste of mystics. In the Clan Protectorate, they are simply not needed in terms of their history.
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I agree with Cmerwin. Personally, it makes no difference to me. If the Clan is called Spirit Cats, but at the same time the warriors will have "nova cat" as the second name and in the name of the clusters - I'm OK with that. The main thing is that there would be legal succession. Genes, technology, tradition, culture. Yes, and from the point of view of "revival". Many are dissatisfied with the revival of factions. Spirit Cats do not need to be revived, they are already here. Strengthen them with all the surviving Cats with genes and technologies and we will get a full-fledged Clan of Cats with a slightly changed name. Which would be logical from the point of view of the storyline. Remember the visions of Kev Ross and why he created Spirit Cats at all. The only thing that does not fit into such a plot is the story of Kisho himself and the caste of mystics. In the Clan Protectorate, they are simply not needed in terms of their history.
If Mystic Kisho reappears I have a feeling that a few things might happen.
A) Alaric will grant him a new bloodname house "Kurita" (To really thumb the eye of the Dragon)
B) Kisho will offer, under the name of Alaric, a union with the Spirit Cats for a reborn Nova Cat Clan in exchange for IlClan loyalty and the entire genetic repository.
Or perhaps Kisho will just show up in the Clan Protectorate, the two will merge into Spirit Cats, and they'll stay away from the IlClan. But it doesn't seem like TPTB are going to let that happen.
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The real question... When Kisho comes back. Will you back the...
or the
Maybe turning control over to a non-Bloodnameble Mystic is what will get Rikkard to finally get his Bloodname.
Considering they are in the FWL the place of great debates... its almost appropriate the Nova Cats are there
Honestly although I'm first a Nova Cat and second a Spirit Cat reading about how the Nova Cats changed from the Jihad to Extinction I'd lean more towards the Spirit Cats now
Argue all you want that they are the same the Spirit Cats carry the Spirit of the first Clan that threw itself into the Jihads grinder, the one that arguably paid the most for their efforts
The Spirit Cats are (at their core) the descendants of the best the Clan had in its most trying times
I'd argue if the Clan were to be recognised by its fellow Clans a change is needed
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I think moving away from the Combine and the Dominion would be the move. Regardless of whose fault it is, that area of space has not been kind to them. Black Dragon, Kurita proper and the Ghost Bears all have various issues with them.
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I think moving away from the Combine and the Dominion would be the move. Regardless of whose fault it is, that area of space has not been kind to them. Black Dragon, Kurita proper and the Ghost Bears all have various issues with them.
Agreed. I was about to say that Khan Drummond's home planet was Apollo, but that appears to currently be in the Hell's Horses Occupation Zone.
Maybe someplace out anti-spinward in the Lupus Cloud?
Or even out past the Chainelane Isles where some of those old abandoned systems like Wark and Trinity are in the Deep Periphery?
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Agreed. I was about to say that Khan Drummond's home planet was Apollo, but that appears to currently be in the Hell's Horses Occupation Zone.
Maybe someplace out anti-spinward in the Lupus Cloud?
Or even out past the Chainelane Isles where some of those old abandoned systems like Wark and Trinity are in the Deep Periphery?
I think they need to stay within the Inner Sphere proper. Alaric was willing to restore the Smoke Jags, I would assume he would be willing to do the same for the Nova Cats, both of whom were ‘illegally’ Annihilated. One can assume with the precarious position of the ilClan Wolves they’d want allies close by.
Also I don’t know how well of their navy is. Who knows if they could even transport enough stuff to get that far.
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I feel I have to throw in that the Sea Foxes get a say. The Clan Protectorate is rules by two Clans. If the Foxes pulled the plug thigs get exciting.
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I think they need to stay within the Inner Sphere proper. Alaric was willing to restore the Smoke Jags, I would assume he would be willing to do the same for the Nova Cats, both of whom were ‘illegally’ Annihilated. One can assume with the precarious position of the ilClan Wolves they’d want allies close by.
Also I don’t know how well of their navy is. Who knows if they could even transport enough stuff to get that far.
You bring up a couple of interesting, and I think, important points. True, we were "illegally" Annihilated, but we *were* very legally Abjured. Sure, Alaric can snap a finger and say we "had the right idea, at the wrong time," or something. But the other Clans might have very strong feelings about us coming back into the fold.
In a similar vein, I guess a lot would depend on how the remaining Cats feel about still being Clan. We tossed our hat in with the (2nd) Star League because we believed it was the right thing to do, it fulfilled Kerensky's vision, and fulfilled the visions of our leadership. But the treatment we received during the Nova Cat Abjuration _might_ give us some bitter feelings towards the other Clans. A kind of "Hey! Acknowledge that what we did back then was *right*!"
In terms of our (previously very large) navy, I think very little of it remains, and I am also not sure which group has what (I'm still updating the page on Sarna on that). But I think you are absolutely right, there is very little. All we know is that Kisho had enough to have a mini-Exodus and take a sampling of the whole Clan with him, but I assume it was a very very small sampling.
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Honestly, the size of our navy (IIRC, once described as second largest in both the IS and Clan space) feels miswritten. I think it comes from works that muddied JumpShip, WarShip, and DropShip numbers. We always had a good navy but I find it hard to believe that we outnumbered most of the great houses and probably Clan Snow Raven.
Kisho did abscond with copies of all our Bloodheritages though, so if he comes back, he could conceivably resurrect the Clan.
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In a nut shell, what's going on with Kisho ?
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Honestly, the size of our navy (IIRC, once described as second largest in both the IS and Clan space) feels miswritten. I think it comes from works that muddied JumpShip, WarShip, and DropShip numbers. We always had a good navy but I find it hard to believe that we outnumbered most of the great houses and probably Clan Snow Raven.
Kisho did abscond with copies of all our Bloodheritages though, so if he comes back, he could conceivably resurrect the Clan.
They had the 2nd largest in the Clans before the invasion after it well it kind of fell apart piece by piece
The Nova Cats biggest naval problem was 2 fold first it was a Cruiser navy (nothing bigger than a Black Lion)
2nd they didn't have a portable shipyard
The Trial of Possession for the Rasalhague ripped the heart out of the navy and then the Jihad finished it off
What the Nova Cats needed was to capture or trade for a Faslane and win the Rasalhague trial if they'd done those 2 things the Combine might have thought twice and the Nova Cats could have probably moved to the Republic
Unfortunately the Jihad sunk any such hope as WarShips were lined up and sunk in glorious fashion. Honestly I didn't mind that it was that the infrastructure was never rebuilt
Even post jihad a decent pocket warship would have been good for the Cats and stopped Irece from happening so easily
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A cruiser navy is plenty adequate. Typically as written a battleship in a Clan navy was balanced with a destroyer. As a rule battleships were not superior enough over a cruiser to compensate for the destroyer.
The issues with the large Nova Cat navy come back to one of the Field Manuals listing a random large number (40 comes to mind) without looking at what the rest of the Clans were getting. The initial solution was dozens of Carracks. When it was pointed out what dozens of Carracks could do we got the Carrack (Merchant).
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They had the 2nd largest in the Clans before the invasion after it well it kind of fell apart piece by piece
The Nova Cats biggest naval problem was 2 fold first it was a Cruiser navy (nothing bigger than a Black Lion)
2nd they didn't have a portable shipyard
The Trial of Possession for the Rasalhague ripped the heart out of the navy and then the Jihad finished it off
What the Nova Cats needed was to capture or trade for a Faslane and win the Rasalhague trial if they'd done those 2 things the Combine might have thought twice and the Nova Cats could have probably moved to the Republic
Unfortunately the Jihad sunk any such hope as WarShips were lined up and sunk in glorious fashion. Honestly I didn't mind that it was that the infrastructure was never rebuilt
Even post jihad a decent pocket warship would have been good for the Cats and stopped Irece from happening so easily
Yeah, it's really hard to say and I think we just don't have enough information, as in all things Nova Cat. First, we had a pretty large navy all things considered, even if they weren't McKenna class WarShips. But I would argue, second, the Nova Cats always prided aerospace assets, so high maneuverability WarShips may have been a good thing. (It has *always* baffled me that Khan Leroux, one of the greatest aerospace jockies the Clans ever produced, constantly bid away his aerospace).
Agreed on the portable shipyard - but as I have argued earlier - we really have no idea how much we lost once the Abjuration was declared. How much we couldn't bring with us to the IS. The Ghost Bears had WAAAAAAYYYY more time to relocate to the IS than we did, and under much less stressful conditions. Hence, orbital shipyards. And the Kuritans weren't about to give us anything. We were a speedbump for the Combine, as later proved out. (If I am not mistaken, Minoru complains to Omiko, who complains to Victor, about how the Nova Cats are being treated unfairly immediately after relocating).
To be honest, the descriptions of New Barcella in Path of Glory kind of shocked me with how much the Cats were able to rescue and rebuild from the Homeworlds in so little time. Until I understood how much the Bears were able to bring with them to Rasalhague. Post-Abjuration, the Cats were always set up for failure. The fact that we were able to be as resilient and honorable as we were afterward is a testament to our people.
As usual - to put it in an old Terran dialect: "We done gots ourselves screwed". So I suppose we agree, although I think the Cats never had a chance, through no fault of our own to do what's right and be good at doing it.
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To be honest, the descriptions of New Barcella in Path of Glory kind of shocked me with how much the Cats were able to rescue and rebuild from the Homeworlds in so little time. Until I understood how much the Bears were able to bring with them to Rasalhague. Post-Abjuration, the Cats were always set up for failure. The fact that we were able to be as resilient and honorable as we were afterward is a testament to our people.
When Path of Glory (3063) was published the only confirmed Sphere built CGB Mech was the Ursus, later established as 3059 and the first Mech they built. Arcas is 3061.
Executioner and Fire Moth aren't confirmed until 3071 (TRO3050U).
It puts some context around what the Bears and Cats were doing.
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When Path of Glory (3063) was published the only confirmed Sphere built CGB Mech was the Ursus, later established as 3059 and the first Mech they built. Arcas is 3061.
Executioner and Fire Moth aren't confirmed until 3071 (TRO3050U).
It puts some context around what the Bears and Cats were doing.
So we got to producing one of the premier (IMO) heavy Omnimechs, our titular Nova Cat, at the same time the Ghost Bears were building an (admittedly quite good) second-line Battlemech in the Ursus? Now that you've highlighted it, that's an interesting disparity. Outside of it simply being oversight, I could see that the Nova Cat, having lost galaxies, millions of civilians, and confined to a few worlds, would focus on their strength of arms and offensive ability. The Ghost Bear, having relatively peacefully and uneventfully both annexed a large population and moved wholesale into the Inner Sphere, would focus on infrastructure, logistics, and defense. The Nova Cat, an implacable sniper, fits CNC. The Ursus, a mixed-tech defender, fits CGB.
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So we got to producing one of the premier (IMO) heavy Omnimechs, our titular Nova Cat, at the same time the Ghost Bears were building an (admittedly quite good) second-line Battlemech in the Ursus? Now that you've highlighted it, that's an interesting disparity. Outside of it simply being oversight, I could see that the Nova Cat, having lost galaxies, millions of civilians, and confined to a few worlds, would focus on their strength of arms and offensive ability. The Ghost Bear, having relatively peacefully and uneventfully both annexed a large population and moved wholesale into the Inner Sphere, would focus on infrastructure, logistics, and defense. The Nova Cat, an implacable sniper, fits CNC. The Ursus, a mixed-tech defender, fits CGB.
If I am being honest a lot of it is the timing of the books. TRO3060 was 1998 when IS built Mechs first started showingup. TRO Project Phoenix was 2003. TRO3050U which the Bears rely heavily on was 2007. In the mean timeline had progressed from 3060 to 3071. For all we know GB construction started some time, probably after the Arcas and before 3071. There are some internal documents narrowing it down but they won't be made public. Another hint are the second line RATs in FM Warden Clans (3060) and Updates (3067). Very heavily SLDF tech suggesting the Brian Caches are being heavily utilised.
Ultimately we don't know. The Cats got a big burst of information around 3065ish. The Bears don't catch up till the 70s at which point the non Mech hints given have given them the industry for the craziness of the Jihad releases.
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You could argue the Bears built an entire shipyard in that time
They also had a sizable Touman and were in the process of training locals
The Nova Cats on the other hand were crash building as much as they could trying to rebuild and piece a Touman together (lots and lots of variants of Mechs, new vehicles etc)
Although I know in reality it's how designs landed in the TROs it also fits the two factions exceptionally well. One is fighting for survival and relevance while the other is taking the slow nation building route
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I could see that the Nova Cat, having lost galaxies, millions of civilians, and confined to a few worlds, would focus on their strength of arms and offensive ability. The Ghost Bear, having relatively peacefully and uneventfully both annexed a large population and moved wholesale into the Inner Sphere, would focus on infrastructure, logistics, and defense. The Nova Cat, an implacable sniper, fits CNC. The Ursus, a mixed-tech defender, fits CGB.
Exactly. And a few worlds in a territory previously considered the "enemy" for centuries (even if we do have some Kuritan Bloodnames).
It was produced in 3059, as a result of our loss on Tukkayid (yes, we lost BOTH objectives, YET we were 1) KAMIKAZED! and 2) *still* managed to cause MORE materiel damage than any other Clan), by a Khan who had already seen that we needed to join the Star League and proceeds to enact that plan. And this omnimech carries the very name of our Clan.
While Ghost Bear quietly moves most of their Clan to their Founder's homeworlds.
(In sincere curiosity, because I don't remember and I don't see it on Sarna - how did the Bears vote regarding our Abjuration? For or Against?)
@parable - I think you've nailed it.
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One is fighting for survival and relevance while the other is taking the slow nation building route
This!
If only we had parlayed with the Bears. If only they had actually listened.
Although, to be honest, I think we were only fighting for survival *because* of the choices we made as a Clan. Choices that our Khans made to fulfill the Great Father's vision. We went forward believing that those choices were RIGHT. Those choices were the fulfillment of Clan belief.
Then we were betrayed by: our sister and brother Clans (except the Snow Ravens and Diamond Sharks), then the Ghost Bears, then the Draconis Combine, the 2nd Star League, and pretty much everyone else after that (we'll see how the Mariks &/or the ilKhan treat us).
Kev Rosse (RIP), Rikkard, Kisho, and anyone else claiming Nova Cat descendency - and each of us - has every right to be angry as hell.
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(In sincere curiosity, because I don't remember and I don't see it on Sarna - how did the Bears vote regarding our Abjuration? For or Against?)
@parable - I think you've nailed it.
IIRC (though I do not always recall correctly), the vote for abjuration was unanimous. Star Adder wanted to annihilate us but were shot down.
As for the Ghost Bears in general? I think they were stung not solely because of our betrayal of the others of Kerensky's chosen, but because we were a dark mirror to them. The Ghost Bears crusaded to advance a warden cause, the Nova Cats were crusaders until circumstances turned us warden. We allowed ourselves to be subsumed into an IS power, they ruled theirs. For the deeply conservative Ghost Bears, Clan Nova Cat was a perfect foe because we represented all the things they saw as weakness. It also feels somewhat one-sided, with CGB holding animosity against their 'traitor' neighbors, while CNC is still working out how to recover from a genocide.
In another world, the Clan that doesn't treat old age as a liability and the one that still has family systems, both Clans preferring swift tactical strikes, both Clans liking to take their time and wait for the perfect time to strike, both Clans deciding to merge with the IS quickly after the Invasion...in that world, the Nova Cats and the Ghost Bears could've been brothers. But alas, we were everything CGB hated and we were -right there- and we know if angered sufficiently the Bears go berserk...
Clan Nova Cat would never not come into conflict with Clan Ghost Bear.
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IIRC (though I do not always recall correctly), the vote for abjuration was unanimous. Star Adder wanted to annihilate us but were shot down.
As for the Ghost Bears in general? I think they were stung not solely because of our betrayal of the others of Kerensky's chosen, but because we were a dark mirror to them. The Ghost Bears crusaded to advance a warden cause, the Nova Cats were crusaders until circumstances turned us warden. We allowed ourselves to be subsumed into an IS power, they ruled theirs. For the deeply conservative Ghost Bears, Clan Nova Cat was a perfect foe because we represented all the things they saw as weakness. It also feels somewhat one-sided, with CGB holding animosity against their 'traitor' neighbors, while CNC is still working out how to recover from a genocide.
In another world, the Clan that doesn't treat old age as a liability and the one that still has family systems, both Clans preferring swift tactical strikes, both Clans liking to take their time and wait for the perfect time to strike, both Clans deciding to merge with the IS quickly after the Invasion...in that world, the Nova Cats and the Ghost Bears could've been brothers. But alas, we were everything CGB hated and we were -right there- and we know if angered sufficiently the Bears go berserk...
Clan Nova Cat would never not come into conflict with Clan Ghost Bear.
Yeah nah. You are over thinking it.
Real world. Bear players didn't have any particular feelings about the Nova Cats. Maybe traitors? That is about it. Then Trial of Retribution happened and there was a collective WTF?
Over the following decades the gaps have been filled in. The Bears had three WarShips taken out by TF Serpent as collateral damage of the Nova Cat's actions. That is a good place to start with the hard feelings. As the Cats were Abjured there was no reason to show mercy in the 1st DC war. For all of Path of Glory, the Cats are again on the side of the IS power attacking a Clan.
From here on in geography takes control. Who else can the Nova Cats take their frustrations out on? It is a narrative trap. From the Bear point of view you can't hit the Nova Cats because that will bring in the DC. The Cats can't get respect because they are the vassal of the DC, so they are going to keep coming at the Bears. Any time Bears get the chance (2nd DC War) they are going to try and make the problem go away.
I don't like the situation; it is frustrating because there is no way out of it short of opening a third front, and that isn't happening at Irece Prefecture. That or genocide, which is where we ended up. The Cats were probably better off leaving wholesale for the Republic. The Clan Protectorate offers them many more narrative options.
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Assuming they ever get there...
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Sarna said Warden Clans out a stop to Annihilation, which would have inncluded the Ghost Bears at the time. But sarna says the abjuration vote was unanimous (not contested).
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Assuming they ever get there...
I think if the Nova Cats chose to leave after the 2nd War which who could have blames them the Republic would have supported them in the fluff of the big pocket warship (I cannot for the life of me think ot the name) the Republic reportedly deployed them as peacekeepers after the 2nd War
Now we know this couldn't have happened as the Nova Cats were still there in the DA but should history have been different the Republic had more than enough firepower to escort them away
If the timeline had been written in order (I.e no MWDA) maybe that would have happened but AFAIK the fluff of the 2nd War was written post DA era stuff
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Sarna said Warden Clans out a stop to Annihilation, which would have inncluded the Ghost Bears at the time. But sarna says the abjuration vote was unanimous (not contested).
Cheers, you're absolutely right. My brain wanted to remember that but didn't look hard enough.
Still, in the context of the situation, it's hard to imagine anything *more* Warden than a Khan uttering the sentences:
"The Star League is come to oppose us. The question is not whether we can stand against them, but if we should stand against them." After having just reminded the ilKhan and the entire Clan Council that the Nova Cats has ever been to preserve the ideals of the Star League.
Yet, somehow, the audacity of being more Warden than the Wardens was enough for unanimous Abjuration.
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Something I put in the Fan Tribble was ‘what if the Ghost Bears stage a Trial of Absorption on the Nova Cats as they flee Clan Space and try to settle in the DC?’ Militarily the Bears had twice the Clusters but the Navies were more balanced.
That being said: Jellico hits the nail on the head. 100%
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From here on in geography takes control. Who else can the Nova Cats take their frustrations out on? It is a narrative trap. From the Bear point of view you can't hit the Nova Cats because that will bring in the DC. The Cats can't get respect because they are the vassal of the DC, so they are going to keep coming at the Bears. Any time Bears get the chance (2nd DC War) they are going to try and make the problem go away.
I agree with most of this, and I think it paints a fair view of the Bears relations. However, I think there is one aspect that is missed that is important, one that places the Cats in a hard place. The Nova Cats saw themselves first and foremost as rejoining the Star League, we just *happened* to have been given planets in the Combine to govern, in exchange for mutual military cooperation.
Maybe it was our naivete about IS politics (we were duped by the Black Dragon Society too late), maybe it was honest misunderstanding ("Thanks for the worlds, we're happy to help, but we report to the Star League, not the Coordinator") between the Cats and the Combine ("You govern our worlds, therefore you are honor bound to fight for the Dragon").
I think your statement that from the Bears perspective, it's "Nova Cats, you continue to be a problem, we are going to make that problem go away...dezgra" is 100% on the money.
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Maybe it was our naivete about IS politics (we were duped by the Black Dragon Society too late), maybe it was honest misunderstanding ("Thanks for the worlds, we're happy to help, but we report to the Star League, not the Coordinator") between the Cats and the Combine ("You govern our worlds, therefore you are honor bound to fight for the Dragon").
This is what I get from how things went. The Dracs wanted a semi-autonomous subject that can govern planets and serve as an assault force, CNC wanted to form an enclave within the IS while still remaining Clan and self-determining, betting on their hosts' honor and adherence to bushido.
A dumb move for us, considering our generally -pragmatic- interpretation of zellbrigen and the fact that we were genocided (several million killed with no quarter during the truce period of the Abjuration counts, IMO) when we tried to join the second Star League should have made us a little more careful, honestly.
for some off-topic CNC, I posted some (terrible) pics of my Nova Cat minis on the miniatures board.
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for some off-topic CNC, I posted some (terrible) pics of my Nova Cat minis on the miniatures board.
Nice! Working on my Alpha Galaxy. Like that you chose Sigma Galaxy! Great work!
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New Shrapnel just dropped, has a short Nova Cat story in it.
Sounds like from the brief it has to do with the Nova Cat Rebellion...
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New Shrapnel just dropped, has a short Nova Cat story in it.
Sounds like from the brief it has to do with the Nova Cat Rebellion...
It might at that...
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Yes. It's about the Nova Cats rebellion. To be more precise, about its very end. About a desperate battle with no chance of victory with a nuclear strike at the end. Judging by the text, the order for the complete destruction of Nova Cats was not given by Torunaga, but personally by Yori Kurita. From the more positive: Irice was without aerospace support because everything that was left went with Kisho. The story also mentions Star Colonel Cox Devalis. And he is also on some unknown task. Maybe the same with Kisho.
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That is exciting news. I look forward to reading the story. :thumbsup:
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Shrapnel #12 has the last moments of the Nova Cat's struggles on Irene.
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I mean, I think it's pretty good, but I might be slightly biased.
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I mean, I think it's pretty good, but I might be slightly biased.
It was. And I really enjoyed the Elemental PoV; we don't get that enough IMO.
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I mean, I think it's pretty good, but I might be slightly biased.
Yes, it's pretty good :). One question if you can answer. Is the minor mention of Cox Devalis an element of fanservice towards a forgotten character of the Dark Age Era? Or is there some other story behind it?
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Yes, it's pretty good :). One question if you can answer. Is the minor mention of Cox Devalis an element of fanservice towards a forgotten character of the Dark Age Era? Or is there some other story behind it?
I'm not privy to higher decision making. For me it was more a nod to a character from the Dark Age. If the PTBs wish to do more, that'd be cool too.
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Yes. It's about the Nova Cats rebellion. To be more precise, about its very end. About a desperate battle with no chance of victory with a nuclear strike at the end. Judging by the text, the order for the complete destruction of Nova Cats was not given by Torunaga, but personally by Yori Kurita. From the more positive: Irice was without aerospace support because everything that was left went with Kisho. The story also mentions Star Colonel Cox Devalis. And he is also on some unknown task. Maybe the same with Kisho.
Torunaga could have been ordering the strikes her name. So she, not he, took the fall out from the use of Nukes. I really hope this conflict gets fully fleshed out formally in the near future.
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That would be a solid edition to the upcoming Brush Wars reboot
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I'm not privy to higher decision making. For me it was more a nod to a character from the Dark Age. If the PTBs wish to do more, that'd be cool too.
Makes me wonder just how many Spirit Cats went back to Clan Nova Cat versus went to Marik, vs stayed in the Republic. We know all three happened.
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Makes me wonder just how many Spirit Cats went back to Clan Nova Cat versus went to Marik, vs stayed in the Republic. We know all three happened.
There is a non-zero amount (no-Kisho) of Nova/Spirit Cats that escaped from the DC to end up on Marik as well.
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That would be a solid edition to the upcoming Brush Wars reboot
One can hope. Bittersweet as it is, a faction's death should have more then 2 pages dedicated to it.
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One can hope. Bittersweet as it is, a faction's death should have more then 2 pages dedicated to it.
This is the same thought that goes through my head whenever I see someone complaining about how their faction, that got a whole sourcebook/novel/whatever devoted to them, got done dirty in some way. At least they got the luxury of being able to nitpick the details. But I digress as apparently some wounds are still a bit more raw than I initially thought they were.
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One can hope. Bittersweet as it is, a faction's death should have more then 2 pages dedicated to it.
If it makes narrative sense, sure. The Steel Vipers were Annihilated in the span of 2 pages, and by every metric, they were vastly more important to the narrative than the Nova Cats. That said, the entire conflict between Yori/Toranaga and Emi/Katana/Nova Cats definitely could use a little more fleshing out. That whole conflict really didn't sit right with me because it just felt like the writers were trying to clear the deck for the Combine to invade the FedSuns, and wasted a lot of well-written characters to make that happen.
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How about a different metric. The term "Nova Cat" shows up 29 times and "Spirit Cat" 6 times in BattleTech Legends. Kisho even gets an entry.
The Sea Foxes / Diamond Sharks get 13 including Petr Kalasa.
The Jags get 19.
The Ravens get nothing.
The Horses get 4 passing references.
The Bears / Dominion / Rasalhague get 7 and the only entry is for the pirate Abdoun Ricol with 3 of those references.
Now the point I am making isn't Legend's is the most important book ever. Rather it notices the nails that stick up, and though they haven't got a book, the Cats have shown up and been involved a lot.
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Now the point I am making isn't Legend's is the most important book ever.
I certainly hope not, because that book is rife with errors. :D
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If it makes narrative sense, sure. The Steel Vipers were Annihilated in the span of 2 pages, and by every metric, they were vastly more important to the narrative than the Nova Cats.
Not a completely correct example, since Steel Vipers played a major role throughout the Wars of Reaving. And their annihilation is the endgame of this book.
For comparison, Nova Cats were destroyed in two pages in the first half of the Era Report. One of the pages is the prehistory of the uprising, the other is the entire uprising, including the final battle. Not even a single CNC cluster was mentioned. After that, even the characters of Kurita do not remember about this uprising. Among the important epochs of Torunaga's life before the defeat of the Davions was the hunting of pirates on the border worlds. He didn't even remember about the genocide of an entire clan before his death. An insignificant episode.
Regarding Kisho and the number of mentions of Cats in Legends. This is fine, but it has not yet found any embodiment in products. Kisho is the only hero of Ilclan era who has not yet appeared in any source. Well, we are waiting for what will happen next. However, I don't know what to expect because at the moment there are no officially announced books. And I'm not talking about Nova Cats, but in general about the IlClan era.
At this moment I am glad that at least small materials with an emphasis on Nova/Spirit cat have finally begun to appear. Description of the Spirit Cats unit in one Shrapnel, a good story about the last battle for Irice in the last. And from this story we even learned the name of one of the Nova Cats clusters that participated in the uprising. Already a huge progress compared to what it was.
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Not a completely correct example, since Steel Vipers played a major role throughout the Wars of Reaving. And their annihilation is the endgame of this book.
The example is perfectly correct, because the rest of the Wars of Reaving had nothing to do with the Vipers' Annihilation, nor was that particular story thread so much as hinted at until those last two pages, when the Adders turned on the Vipers out of left field.
In all recent books Tarunaga and Yori does not remember about the destruction of Cats Apparently, this is an insignificant episode of their life.
I don't think it's particularly fair or justified to say that the destruction of the Nova Cats was "insignificant" simply because it's not talked about in the whole one novel that we've seen Yori and Toranaga in post-destruction. That novel takes place years after the destruction and the events of the novel have absolutely nothing to do with the Nova Cats, so why would they come up in the first place?
Besides, they're Dracs. Wiping out a rebellious minority that they never really wanted in the first place isn't exactly something either of them is going to clutch their pearls about.
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The example is perfectly correct, because the rest of the Wars of Reaving had nothing to do with the Vipers' Annihilation, nor was that particular story thread so much as hinted at until those last two pages, when the Adders turned on the Vipers out of left field.
We see the development of the whole story. And these two pages are in fact dedicated to the description of one battle. The last battle for Iriсе at the time of the release of Era Report took 4-5 lines or so.
I don't think it's particularly fair or justified to say that the destruction of the Nova Cats was "insignificant" simply because it's not talked about in the whole one novel that we've seen Yori and Toranaga in post-destruction. That novel takes place years after the destruction and the events of the novel have absolutely nothing to do with the Nova Cats, so why would they come up in the first place?
While I was editing my previous post, so that it would be clearer, you have already answered :) You're right. There are no reasons. Except for one. There is a moment in the book when Torunaga thinks about the achievements in his life. And there he remembers that before the victory over the Davions, his most significant achievement was hunting bandits on the borders. Seriously? There was nothing else? Considering that for Cats Torunaga is the main villain responsible for the genocide and fans were hoping for some kind of revenge on this character. And he did not even occasionally remember about some Cats before his death.
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You're right. There are no reasons. Except for one. There is a moment in the book when Torunaga thinks about the achievements in his life. And there he remembers that before the victory over the Davions, his most significant achievement was hunting bandits on the borders. Seriously? There was nothing else? Considering that for Cats Torunaga is the main villain responsible for the genocide and fans were hoping for some kind of revenge on this character. And he did not even occasionally remember about some Cats before his death.
Just because Toranaga was the "main villain" for the Cats regarding their destruction doesn't obligate him to feel as strongly about the Cats in return.
As far as fans wanting revenge goes, well, that's on the fans for having unrealistic expectations. But I suppose being a Nova Cat fan for the last 25 years of publication requires a certain amount of masochism. Believe me, as a Blood Spirit fan, I get it. ;D
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I've been thinking for a while about the Nova Cats in Forever Faithful. Not just Inanna, but also Star Captain Clifford Keating and Antony Oberg (assume he's a Star Captain). Inanna tells Trent that he will serve in the Khan's Star, and Keating says that they serve in the Keshik (Keating says he commands a Binary). First, are we to assume that Inanna was also part of the Keshik?
Second, who all fought the Great Refusal? I assume - but it's not clear - that saKhan Carn's lead the Binary, then we have Keating, Oberg, Trent , and others. What's weird is that Invading Clans names 4 Star Captains in the Nova Cat Keshik, none of whom are either Keating or Oberg (and the only Binary is Echo).
I've been on a kick to paint minis for all of the major Nova Cat engagements, including the Great Refusal, so I wanted to get the details as straight as possible. Also, does anyone know if the Keshik's camo schemes are mentioned anywhere?
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I've read before that Forever Faithful's author is pretty known for disregarding such details (if he even knew they existed) in favor of his own narratives. I wouldn't read too much into the naming disparities. Plus, Invading Clans is set a few years before the Great Refusal, plenty of time for some turnover in an elite Invading Clan unit.
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I've read before that Forever Faithful's author is pretty known for disregarding such details (if he even knew they existed) in favor of his own narratives. I wouldn't read too much into the naming disparities. Plus, Invading Clans is set a few years before the Great Refusal, plenty of time for some turnover in an elite Invading Clan unit.
Exactly. All of these things were written in the FASA days; you kinda have to just allow for a bit of wiggle room because things simply won't line up perfectly or consistently. Clan Smoke Jaguar itself is one of the most egregious examples of that fact.
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Exactly. All of these things were written in the FASA days; you kinda have to just allow for a bit of wiggle room because things simply won't line up perfectly or consistently. Clan Smoke Jaguar itself is one of the most egregious examples of that fact.
Yeah, I had also thought that it was possible in the case of Echo Binary that someone might have been promoted or died at Tukayyid.
I definitely remember the Smoke Jaguar stuff being wonky and inconsistent. The Luthien sourcebook reads like a train wreck. I would LOVE for a remake of that book, but it's not going to happen.
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BLP is not the only one who uses random and unrelated to the previous sources characters. When I looked at the list of commanders of Spirit cats in the ER: Dark Age, I had only one question: who are all these people? Was it really impossible to put someone named from famous characters? There are a lot of them thanks to clixgame. And another question of the same type: Calvin Rosse or Kalvin Rosse? Or are they two different characters one after the other commanding the same cluster?
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BLP is not the only one who uses random and unrelated to the previous sources characters. When I looked at the list of commanders of Spirit cats in the ER: Dark Age, I had only one question: who are all these people? Was it really impossible to put someone named from famous characters? There are a lot of them thanks to clixgame. And another question of the same type: Calvin Rosse or Kalvin Rosse? Or are they two different characters one after the other commanding the same cluster?
Yeah, I remember when I first got my hands on ER:DA I was floored that all of the cluster (not to mention regimental) commanders of all the splinter factions weren't... just the clix people already available. Seemed like a wasted opportunity, especially since some of the dossiers even said the characters were the commanders of their units (Caden Senn for First Kearny Highlanders, Angus Drummond for Purifiers). Shrapnel has done a good job here and there using clix characters. I figured CGL at the time just didn't want to be bothered to rifle through the dossiers.
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I was thinking recently about Minoru Nova Cat and the office of Oathmaster, especially after our Abjuration. In Invading Clans, the saKhan and Oathmaster are listed as the CO and Aide for Alpha Galaxy. The saKhan as CO of Alpha kinda makes sense, Alpha is the pride of the Nova Cats, so having the saKhan as its Commander is a nice symbolic gesture. What surprised me was Oathmaster Winters as the Aide, because I assumed she would actually be part of the Nova Cat Keshik and Aide to the Khan, or at least on the Khan's immediate staff.
Does anyone know of an Oathmaster as part of a different Nova Cat unit than Alpha Galaxy?
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Does anyone know of an Oathmaster as part of a different Nova Cat unit than Alpha Galaxy?
FM: ComStar has saKhan and Oathmaster respectively as CO and Aide to the Shiva Keshik, which is part of Delta Galaxy. It also says that "the Oathmaster always holds the position of XO" in the Keshik's description, so I'd wager that some time between the Clan Invasion and the Nova Cats' abjuration, they restructured how the Keshiks were organized. I'm guessing losing both Khan and saKhan at the same time during the Great Refusal prompted this choice, so now the Khan leads the Novacat (or Novastar) Keshik, and the saKhan leads the Shiva Keshik. The latter is only in Delta Galaxy because, upon being made saKhan, Karl Devalis requested that he remain in Delta Galaxy, and it remained that way. Long story short: yes, the Oathmaster has been part of other galaxies, their combat role is as part of whatever Galaxy the saKhan's Keshik is part of.
As for your earlier question about camouflage patterns, I don't remember ever reading about specific Nova Cat camouflage schemes...or even the fact that they are camouflaged at all. Santin West's Elemental unit in one of the Twilight of the Clans novels was painted uniformly gloss black, and I browsed through Path of Glory again and found no mention of Ebony Dragon's color...the cover has it in tan, but covers, especially for SF works, are notoriously inaccurate.
Just for fun, I looked through the pilot cards from the Clan Invasion sets for any non-Xi or Alpha Nova Cats, and there's a mottled green Horned Owl, a treeline camo Stormcrow, a Dire Wolf and a Hellbringer in what looks like a cross between the British MPT and US Woodland BDU, and finally a Huntsman in something similar to a German Tropentarn. I'm assuming from this that most commands paint their 'Mechs for the biome at hand, with each warrior allowed leeway for customization based on their rank and the permissiveness of their commanding officer.
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Official Canon is the Nova Cats always use appropriate camo for the terrain they're in (Except for Alpha and Xi). They dont really go into detail about what counts as 'appropriate camo'.
Semi canon is the DA color scheme - White, gold cockpits, charcoal grey weapons/joints, and red hilight panels. Never gets mentioned, but it shows up in artwork outside of MWDA figs.
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Does the Clan Protectorate have camo for their clusters? Spirit Cats changed little bit since making Marik their home.
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For the Nova Cats it would have been better choice if they had not betrayed the Clans. Since then they had been on a steady down spiral.
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For the Nova Cats it would have been better choice if they had not betrayed the Clans. Since then they had been on a steady down spiral.
The Clans betrayed us. All they ever talked about was "bring back the glory of the Star League," but when the Successor States reformed the Star League in the face of an impossible threat, it was deemed not good enough, not a 'real' Star League. Only we had the understanding and vision that the Crusader Clans had become the new Amaris, and that an imperfect and attainable solution is better than no solution at all. Our real mistake was trusting the Draconis Combine to see us as a sovereign people within their empire, rather than a skilled military force that threatens their power structure.
But had we stayed with the other Clans, would we have done much better? Smoke Jaguar, Fire Mandrill, Ice Hellion, and Steel Viper have all been annihilated. Hell's Horses are doing well, but they prove my point regarding the Nova Cat defection to the Star League: Alaric Ward's ilClan Star League is not their vision of what the Star League should be, so they refuse to acknowledge it. Diamond Shark is doing well, though to call them a Clan at this point requires an asterisk. Our longtime rivals for 'best marksmen' the Goliath Scorpions, and our sometime allies the Snow Ravens have middling holdings in the Periphery. Ghost Bear is fully integrated into the Rasalhague Dominion--their loathing of us notwithstanding, their path is what we hoped for. Wolf is spread dangerously thin, with a nigh-impossible mandate, and Jade Falcon? Better to die out than have their record of war crimes and current position as praetorian guard for their 'betters.'
No, our mistake was simply believing that a culture that regards honor in battle highly would automatically be amenable to us. Clan Nova Cat lived and died making the right choice, no matter what anyone else has to say about it.
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No, our mistake was simply believing that a culture that regards honor in battle highly would automatically be amenable to us. Clan Nova Cat lived and died making the right choice, no matter what anyone else has to say about it.
:thumbsup:
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For the Nova Cats it would have been better choice if they had not betrayed the Clans. Since then they had been on a steady down spiral.
6 and 2-3s I reckon if they'd stood by the Clans and the Jaguars they could have lost their entire invasion force opening themselves to being absorbed
Alternatively it may have made the Inner Sphere target the Falcons instead of two Clans, unfortunately the Falcons are a bigger name
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Frankly, I think the Nova Cats would have been written out no matter who they sided with. I dont think we would have fared any better then some of the other destroyed clans during the Reaving.
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Frankly, I think the Nova Cats would have been written out no matter who they sided with. I dont think we would have fared any better then some of the other destroyed clans during the Reaving.
I do not think that the WoR would have happened if the Nova Cats had not betrayed the other Clans.
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I do not think that the WoR would have happened if the Nova Cats had not betrayed the other Clans.
Yes they would have. That conflict was inevitable the moment Operation Revival was greenlit.
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At the bare minimum once the Steel Vipers were kicked out of the IS, the hurt feelings began the in-universe march to the WoR. Why accept that you weren't good enough to hold on to IS worlds when you can blame the IS clans of having cooties AND use it as a way to get the rest of the snubbed IS clans on your side?
If the Nova Cats had held on to an occupation zone like the Falcons, Wolves, & Bears and the rest of it progressed as normal, there'd probably just be a Council of 7 Clans instead of 6.
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At the bare minimum once the Steel Vipers were kicked out of the IS, the hurt feelings began the in-universe march to the WoR. Why accept that you weren't good enough to hold on to IS worlds when you can blame the IS clans of having cooties AND use it as a way to get the rest of the snubbed IS clans on your side?
Would there have been a Refusal War if the Nova Cats had not betrayed their fellow Clans? The Star League would have probably take on the Jade Falcons instead of the Jaguars. There would have been no expulsion of the Vipers from the Inner Sphere then.
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Would there have been a Refusal War if the Nova Cats had not betrayed their fellow Clans?
Yes, because the Refusal War happened before the Nova Cats were betrayed by the other Clans.
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Yes, because the Refusal War happened before the Nova Cats were betrayed by the other Clans.
My mistake, I meant the Hegira War (Falcons versus Vipers).
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At the bare minimum once the Steel Vipers were kicked out of the IS, the hurt feelings began the in-universe march to the WoR. Why accept that you weren't good enough to hold on to IS worlds when you can blame the IS clans of having cooties AND use it as a way to get the rest of the snubbed IS clans on your side?
As an aside, there's a lot that could be said about Brett Andrews being a total dink even before the Reaving Wars and just how susceptible Perigard Zalman was to being goaded into actions by those around him, ie. ex-Khan Natalie Breen, the aforementioned future Bloody-ilKhan Andrews, etc. However, this is a Nova Cat thread and I will digress.
The Viper in me just needed to say it out loud. Just one time. :(
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Still would've had the same net result. There's no reason to think the Jaguars wouldn't have still ended up on the chopping block even without the Nova Cats being Abjured (far more likely that the Cats would've gotten their own clocks cleaned in the process just being in the middle of all of that), and the Vipers still would've gotten themselves kicked out of the Inner Sphere. I don't see how the Cats not being betrayed would've prevented the Wars of Reaving. That war was going to happen one way or the other.
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I think the IS powers would still have targeted the Jaguars. Some of the reasons given were the Jaguars orbital bombing of Turtle Bay on Edo and the fact that many considered the Jaguars the strongest and most brutal.
Now the Nova Cats may not have been targeted in their OZ simply so the IS wouldn't open up a 2nd battlefront. Later on after the Great Refusal the Combine on its own may have decided to go after the Nova Cats and pick off some worlds.
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Well, one of the reasons the Jags were chosen to be the target was that nobody liked them AND the DC had already began talks with the Cats anyways. It possible the IS may have chosen a different clan, but I think they probably would have still gone after the Jags because...well. Again, NO ONE liked them. The cats would have been caught in the middle, and likely compounded the issues as they take the chance to snipe at the Jags. At best it would be a mutual 'both sides looking the other way' but that leaves them in a bit of precarious situation once the Jags get kicked out.
I dont see them surviving in the IS from that. Which leads to them returning to the IS like the Vipers did. And then Reavings happen. Because that had a lot more to do with Homeworld vs Invasion Clan sentiment, and the Cats are "Corrupted'. Heroic Cat last stand, Clan Reaving version to follow. At a guess the survivors going to the Cobras, Sharks, and MAYBE the Ravens depending on how the warship fleet goes.
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I dont see them surviving in the IS from that. Which leads to them returning to the IS like the Vipers did. And then Reavings happen. Because that had a lot more to do with Homeworld vs Invasion Clan sentiment, and the Cats are "Corrupted'. Heroic Cat last stand, Clan Reaving version to follow. At a guess the survivors going to the Cobras, Sharks, and MAYBE the Ravens depending on how the warship fleet goes.
Actually that's an interesting idea to follow: what if the Cats didn't engage with the Star League against the Jags but were ejected afterwards? Assuming that history plays out the same way as it does in other respects, that leaves two "failed" invading Clans in the Homeworlds, both with big, battle hardened toumans. The Vipers may not have been able to cause as much havoc, what with there being a bigger (the Cats having, historically, one of the bigger militaries pre-Abjuration) Clan possibly feeling the same pangs of disaffected rage but without the humiliation the Vipers endured. Yes, the Reavings (or something similar in nature; Clan society (natch) was at a breaking point in the 3060s) would still occur after a fashion, but to what extent? Would the Adders have been able to ride the waves so masterfully? Would Garrett Sainze have been elected ilKhan if Khan Leroux or West was in the Grand Council to voice a counterpoint or even just another vote in favor of the Adders?
I know it's a lot of imagining and speculating, but it's an interesting venue to mentally check out. Would the Cats have survived? As Istal said, I'm not sure they would. Every vision they had told them that change and violence were coming, which led them to side with the Inner Sphere. At best, perhaps we'd see a rump nation formed from abjured Cat survivors, a la the Imperio, or perhaps a heavily reaved group of survivors made up of those forces that never deployed to the Inner Sphere. At worst? Well, you can't kill what's already dead, so I won't go there.
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So I got my hands on the Battle of Tukayyid short story anthology, how do you all feel about the reveal about Khan Lereox and that essentially the entire Clan Nova Cat campaign was sabotaged by him?
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So I got my hands on the Battle of Tukayyid short story anthology, how do you all feel about the reveal about Khan Lereox and that essentially the entire Clan Nova Cat campaign was sabotaged by him?
I think *entire* is a bit strong. As I read it, it was the culmination of years of visions meant to help us fulfill the vision of Khan Drummond and General Kerensky. As a true Nova Cat, he believed in the Path that he was following (and felt intense remorse because of it). I don't think he could have known *exactly* what ComStar would do to the Cat's Maw, just bid away all aerospace support (weird for one of the best pilots ever). And still, with the exception of Wolf, we outperformed every other Clan despite our incredible losses. (And sure, maybe the order to tell Nova Cats - of all Clans - to not configure their mechs for laser weaponry and instead ammo, may have also come from him and thus lead to a guarantee that we would lose.)
I also think this needs to be put into perspective alongside two things: 1) when he was younger he was not as committed to the Ways of Seeing and our clan's appreciation of visions, and 2) his decisions during the Great Refusal and his visions of his own death just to usher in our joining the (2nd) Star League.
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Every vision they had told them that change and violence were coming, which led them to side with the Inner Sphere. At best, perhaps we'd see a rump nation formed from abjured Cat survivors, a la the Imperio, or perhaps a heavily reaved group of survivors made up of those forces that never deployed to the Inner Sphere. At worst? Well, you can't kill what's already dead, so I won't go there.
Agreed it's an interesting imagining, but I think your comment above nails it. Vision after vision, after vision led us to that fate. Khan Leroux was initially skeptical of the strength of the visions, as was Khan West, but both eventually embraced making major Clan-level decisions around them.
I know other clanners like to compare us to the Scorpions and their necrosia addiction, but I think a better analog to the Ways of Seeing (and eventually the Mystic Caste) are the Mentats from Dune. You get enough members of your Clan, who have been deeply trained in self-reflection and contemplation, coming up with enough similar visions, as a leader, you are going to see patterns and trends.
All of this is to say, I agree with you, but for our Clan to *not* follow the visions and Ways of Seeing would be a betrayal of what it means to be a Nova Cat, especially if those visions are about restoring the Star League. Effectively, given the data available to them, our leadership made the decisions they did in order to fulfill what it means to be both Nova Cat and Clan.
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I think a better analog to the Ways of Seeing (and eventually the Mystic Caste) are the Mentats from Dune. You get enough members of your Clan, who have been deeply trained in self-reflection and contemplation, coming up with enough similar visions, as a leader, you are going to see patterns and trends.
And this is borne out in what we see of Clan visions, and especially Mystics like Kisho Nova Cat--many of them have displayed what is essentially precognition through a regimen of stress, deprivation, and a forced surrendering of one's conscious modes of thought. Of course, this runs into the same problem that Thinkers (people with superpowers relating to perception) from the web novel Worm do: given accurate information and an objective reading of the conclusions one's visions produce, they're some of the most dangerous people around...but if their initial assumptions are wrong, or if they take the wrong lesson from what they learn, they court disaster.
Additionally, once we get past the Ways of Seeing and into the Mystic caste, we now have to contend with the massive amounts of trauma and psychological harm done, starting from early childhood, as part of making have instinctual, correct, regular visions. Heretic's Faith (or what I remember from it) provides glimpses of it: locked alone with other children (age 5 or so?) in pitch blackness, beaten for making noise, forced to fight for food and water, randomly tested, with failure meaning execution...eventually some of them stomp another child to death just so they'll be disciplined, to break up the monotony. I know the clans are written to be an utterly alien martial culture with Spartan methods, but the Mystic program should produce nothing but broken husks and serial killers. Let alone the suspect wisdom of whittling down a sibko of some 50 trueborn warriors to a generous final count of 3 survivors, with any washouts culled...
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...but if their initial assumptions are wrong, or if they take the wrong lesson from what they learn, they court disaster.
This would make for a wonderful Nova Cat story and much better explanation for what went wrong with our Clan (than the let's have everyone betray them until they are more or less gone).
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We kind of saw it in Path of Glory, wherein Zane, with his typically Crusader mindset doesn't care to really learn about Draconis Combine--or even Inner Sphere--politics, and is blindsided by his friend being an ultranationalist revanchist Yakuza associate whose code of honor dictates that duty comes before all else. His vision foresaw the Black Dragon's hold on Kurita politics but he started putting the pieces together too late: ex.: realizing Black Dragon and Ebony Dragon had different connotations happened late in the novel.
I do share your frustration, because there could be so many good stories, even small vignettes, told about how the Nova Cats had almost supernatural foresight and skill, but that every time they failed in their ways of seeing, they compounded loss upon loss. Classical tragedy never really goes out of style.
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Classical tragedy never really goes out of style.
Amen. It's the story of the Clans.
Zane was the first one I thought of after your initial post. It does raise an interesting question about a couple of Nova Cat things though - especially following up from @Istal_Devalis' previous post.
What I started thinking about was the difference between "Good"/Accurate and "Bad"/Inaccurate visions and predictions. This made me think about the Office of the Oathmaster and what their role is - particularly as the clan's chief vision interpreter.
That then got me thinking off of what @Istal_Devalis wrote and wondering what might have happened had Khans Leroux and Carns allowed Oathmaster Winters to challenge Focht? *If* she had succeeded, Tukayyid might not have ever happened, and the clans would have rushed to Terra. The war would have been drug out probably much longer and with a much higher toll, and the reserve clans would probably have been called up.
That also got me thinking about when Khan Leroux had his own vision to defect to the IS/Star League. I assume after Winters attacks Focht, but before Tukayyid. Did he have false visions before? Just not trust Winters (which is what cannon mentions)? Or was their something else going on behind the scenes?
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I mean, I think it's pretty good, but I might be slightly biased.
I've been reading @Jaim Magnus's great piece in Shrapnel #12, "It Ends in Fire", written from a Nova Cat perspective, and it got me wondering: does anyone know of other Nova Cat pieces that have appeared in Shrapnel or non-novelized sources?
Thanks!
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Heck, I'm still wondering what happened to Oathmaster Winters after she retired. She kinda just disappeared. I asked once but they kinda just shrugged about it.
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Heck, I'm still wondering what happened to Oathmaster Winters after she retired. She kinda just disappeared. I asked once but they kinda just shrugged about it.
Heh. Yeah, been wondering the same. Also, what a time to be the Oathmaster! She was privy to the Clan's whole Visions during the Invasion and transition to the Star League and then in encouraging Khan West in seeing Minoru become Oathmaster and found the Mystic Caste.
Given Nova Cat views about longevity, there's still a chance that she is around and possibly with Minoru???
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She was born in 2989. Nova Cats in leadership positions tend to get old....but not THAT old. :D
She was already 60ish during the Clan Invasion.
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She was born in 2989. Nova Cats in leadership positions tend to get old....but not THAT old. :D
She was already 60ish during the Clan Invasion.
I mean, it would be a stretch, but fun. Khan Drummond made it to 112 and Oathmaster Winters always did strike me as a (well-deserved) over-achiever! ;)
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"Somehow, Oathmaster Winters has returned."
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If her last visions were of Minoru. The founding of the Mystic Caste and of the Clan's only way of survival I'm guessing she'd take a nothing job and stay out of the way
It's like a time travel episode of star trek when they are guaranteed never to go home, find a corner, live happy, stay the course.
I think if she believed that it was key for the Clan to be destroyed to survived she'd have done just that.
Weirdly as it sounds the whole Warden/betrayal/Combine/more betrayal storyline for the Nova Cats has probably Hardened any survivor to the idea of ever trusting the Inner Sphere again
If (as I believe) they return in the ilClan era I think it'll be closer to "original" invasion Cats than those in thebFWL
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Weirdly as it sounds the whole Warden/betrayal/Combine/more betrayal storyline for the Nova Cats has probably Hardened any survivor to the idea of ever trusting the Inner Sphere again
If (as I believe) they return in the ilClan era I think it'll be closer to "original" invasion Cats than those in thebFWL
I'm not sure they'll return, Minoru and a few people taking copies of the Nova Cat genelines and disappearing makes for a good unsolved mystery. That said, they'd be wise to learn from the Ghost Bears, Goliath Scorpions, and Snow Ravens--find some minor power and bully them into integration, making clear that the Clan is the top boss but that they can still have civilian autonomy so long as they let the Clan deal with external politics. They'd be too weak to do anything else, even if Minoru and his cadre did jet off somewhere to regroup and rebuild for an Operation REVIVAL v. 2.0. That, or since the Nova Cats have historically had both a large naval complement and good relationships with the Sharkfoxes, they might consider (IDK if I mentioned this before) working as their ground-combat version of the Com Guard. Sea Fox being both ComStar and the MRBC means that they've got big boots to fill. Also, CNC isn't as down on vehicles and non-Omni designs as other Clans (though out of necessity), so rebuilding their touman would be easier. Also, the Sea Foxes have basically all of the Nova Cat production schematics anyway.
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Following my previous post...I'd pay money to see the Nova Cats assimilate with the Magistracy. Leather daddy furries and burlesque catgirls could unite at last!
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I dont think Kisho's group would have enough people for a full on takeover of any big empire, though. Not unless they go all Macross and go all in on mass production of new people. Maybe a smaller deep periphery world out there somewhere.
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I dont think Kisho's group would have enough people for a full on takeover of any big empire, though. Not unless they go all Macross and go all in on mass production of new people. Maybe a smaller deep periphery world out there somewhere.
Depends how long the ilClan era is if the ilClan lasts 100 years they could return with greater numbers. The Smoky Jags are small at the moment but I'm sure they'll grow too.
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Both halves of the Jade Falcons are small at the moment as well. Two small probationary Clans (Jags & Cats) could be a thing.
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Both halves of the Jade Falcons are small at the moment as well. Two small probationary Clans (Jags & Cats) could be a thing.
Yeah, and in some ways this would be great. CSJ basically owes us for their entire survival. Paul Moon has been recognized by the ilKhan and is *married* to a Nova Cat (who followed a Vision Quest she set in motion under Khan Leroux and Oathmaster Winters). Color me a slow-adapting Nova Cat, but Paul Moon's first and foremost priorities are to Smoke Jaguar, and _assuming_ he actually fulfills the debt he owes our Clan (which is a big ask IMHO), then maybe we will see a token gesture to the Nova Cats. I just think that Paul Moon is politically too savvy and cautious, is too Smoke Jaguar, and while I expect him to remember his debt to the Nova Cats, I assume it will be a lower priority to *everything* else. Even if Star Captain Trent died a Nova Cat, in both their minds, Trent was Smoke Jaguar: I may be old in my wounds, but I expect no help from a Smoke Jaguar. Maybe the story of Khans Rosse and Ismiril changed Moon's mind. I hope I am wrong in my doubt . I have a hard time imagining the Smoke Jaguars ever doing anything for us.
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One thing to keep in mind is that Paul Moon stayed with the Fidelis, he didn't go with the new Jaguars. Now the first Khan was Prohaska Moon, a trueborn direct descendent of Paul. In preparation for a return and an ilClan, the new Jaguars had restarted their iron wombs and such. Depending on how many they did, they might be in better shape than the Terran Falcons.
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Ideology of the Fidelis were very good, it promise a better social mix and behavior.
Id really HATE to see what made the Fidelis society so good and honorable back slide into crappy Clan they were that caused their annihilation in the forest place.
Both novels written about them were essentially on par with this Clan redeemed, but I actually think someone not really connected to those books will lose that vibe. As far I aware, definition of Trueborn extends to only if those who have Trueborn parents and kept it that way, there was no evidence of them having Ironwombs.
That could be true for the spirit cats, but there no way to know Alaric will extend his policy of Clans can only annihilated Clans, will redeem the Nova Cats as Clan Spirit Cat. It really depends if there's going to be a writer who wants to write that story and if the powers that be will allow it.
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One thing to keep in mind is that Paul Moon stayed with the Fidelis, he didn't go with the new Jaguars. Now the first Khan was Prohaska Moon, a trueborn direct descendent of Paul. In preparation for a return and an ilClan, the new Jaguars had restarted their iron wombs and such. Depending on how many they did, they might be in better shape than the Terran Falcons.
Not to derail the Nova Cat thread but I think you're probably right. The Fidelis cleaned out all their infastructure before falling in behind the ilClan while the Jade Falcons up and left everything behind in their quest to chase down the Wolves.
If the two sides of Falcon reunite then not so much.
As for the Nova Cat refugees they are probably in the same boat as the Falcons in many ways. They've got two seperate halfs of a Clan one has resources and support but none of the heritage and "bloodlines" that the Clan's respect. While the other half has the heritage and the bloodlines but little in the way of support and resources.
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Not to derail the Nova Cat thread but I think you're probably right. The Fidelis cleaned out all their infastructure before falling in behind the ilClan while the Jade Falcons up and left everything behind in their quest to chase down the Wolves.
If the two sides of Falcon reunite then not so much.
As for the Nova Cat refugees they are probably in the same boat as the Falcons in many ways. They've got two seperate halfs of a Clan one has resources and support but none of the heritage and "bloodlines" that the Clan's respect. While the other half has the heritage and the bloodlines but little in the way of support and resources.
The Nova Cats with Kisho have bloodheritages but the Spirit Cats should actually have tons of bloodnamed warriors of excellent pedigree. When half of Clan Nova Cat migrated to the Republic it was the best three galaxies and all their naval assets, meaning the best warriors were in there too. When the Spirit Cats formed, you would have seen a lot of motivated Nova Cat warriors who held to the old ways of visions join in.
And given that we know Rikkard Nova Cat migrated over with sections of all his castes (Scientists, laborers, etc.), they probably have a limited iron womb program running.
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Trueborn requires iron wombs and the clans gene process. While the Fidelis didn't take iron wombs, they did take samples of the Jaguar genes and the knowledge & tech to build iron wombs.
The Spirit Cats, as clan enclaves in the Republic, had gene samples and iron wombs, so even if Kisho doesn't have them all, the Spirit Cats should have have the capability
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Something to note about the Spirit Cats as well as they seem to be one of the most liberal Clan societies when it comes to freeborns. Kev Rosse was freeborn but bloodnamed, and rose to the position of Galaxy Commander, which I don't think is too common. Given how the Clan Protectorate is also using clusters of both Spirit Cat Warriors and Freeborn recruits from Protectorate worlds, I don't think they have as much an issue with freeborns as any other Clan would.
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In general, Nova Cat was more liberal than many (most?) other Clans regarding not just trueborn/freeborn status, but also age, caste, and unit composition (at least post-abjuration). Kev Rosse won his Galaxy Commander rank as a Nova Cat, before he formed the Spirit Cats, so that liberalism seems to be a feature of both the Spirit Cats and their parent Clan.
My read on it is that the importance placed on visions mean that there's an element to both Cat cultures that can't be pinned down by trials and hierarchies. In essence, Nova/Spirit Cat mysticism serves as a democratizing factor, making distinctions like free/trueborn, age, and even 'Mech type less important when compared to the Ways of Seeing. Now I'm wondering--is there any mention of non-Warriors undergoing vision quests or having visions? I know Warriors must sacrifice vineers for their brand of pyromancy, which obviously Merchants, Scientists, and Laborers wouldn't have, but basically a knock-off of the Warrior ritual. There's precedent for something similar in Scientist caste Labnames.
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I agree with you, although Kev Rosse is a bit of a special circumstance both in & out of universe. First the easier OOU, he was a MWDA character and while they had some BT staff with them, they still made decisions that were unusual for previous conditions.
Now for the in-universe aspect, he was the freeborn son of a trueborn Nova Cat warrior who joined the Republic. Growing up in a Republic clan enclave also afforded some extra flexibility allowing him to follow the Diana Pryde-type path to a bloodname.
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I agree--I think it'd be ordinarily impossible, or at least prohibitively difficult for a freeborn child, even if born from the pairing of 2 trueborn Nova Cats, to earn a bloodname. However, they'd still be able to rise in the ranks and even earn a position of prestige (e.g., being part of a Keshik), held back mostly by the lack of 13 or so years in intense sibko training. All of which would be unthinkable for many (most?) other Clans. I'm hazy on whether they'd ever be afforded the honor of having their giftake accepted into the breeding program, but the idea that that might even be plausible is pretty radical.
Also, to add a bit more of a Watsonian perspective on your first point: the Dark Age was a time where everyone would have to make unusual decisions that went against previously-held wisdom. The standard modes of currency, communication, and continuity of governance were no more--allowing an IS-savvy and freeborn--but loyal and technically eligible for it--warrior the chance to earn a bloodname, even if considered abhorrent by Clan tradition, makes sense. We saw a smaller scale version of this in Path of Glory, where Zane balks at but accepts deviations from the Clan way, such as IS-style joint exercises with the DCMS, zellbrigen not even a consideration, or trading a Nova Cat for a Pack Hunter to help build relations with another exiled Clan. edit: accepts should be read as 'doesn't commit insubordination over'
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Zane trades a Jenner IIC for the Pack Hunter then adds Ferro to it overall I think he came out ahead
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Zane trades a Jenner IIC for the Pack Hunter then adds Ferro to it overall I think he came out ahead
No, his Jenner IIC was destroyed, his CO gives him the Pack Hunter as replacement, lets him take it for a test drive, then drops this bomb:
"A Trial of Possession?" Steiner said. "No, Zane, that was not how we acquired the Pack Hunter. We got it in exchange for a Nova Cat. You are piloting a 'Mech that our Khans thought important enough to own that we traded the pride of our Touman."
Also, IIRC, he never got to swap the standard for ferro-fibrous--it was on his to-do list but he got merc'd before he got a chance.
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I'm not sure they'll return, Minoru and a few people taking copies of the Nova Cat genelines and disappearing makes for a good unsolved mystery. That said, they'd be wise to learn from the Ghost Bears, Goliath Scorpions, and Snow Ravens--find some minor power and bully them into integration, making clear that the Clan is the top boss but that they can still have civilian autonomy so long as they let the Clan deal with external politics. They'd be too weak to do anything else, even if Minoru and his cadre did jet off somewhere to regroup and rebuild for an Operation REVIVAL v. 2.0. That, or since the Nova Cats have historically had both a large naval complement and good relationships with the Sharkfoxes, they might consider (IDK if I mentioned this before) working as their ground-combat version of the Com Guard. Sea Fox being both ComStar and the MRBC means that they've got big boots to fill. Also, CNC isn't as down on vehicles and non-Omni designs as other Clans (though out of necessity), so rebuilding their touman would be easier. Also, the Sea Foxes have basically all of the Nova Cat production schematics anyway.
While I'm not entirely sure how they'd handle this politically if all Nova Cat wanted was some modicum of safety and worlds with resources sufficient to sustain and build themselves up there's always finding a half dozen unoccupied planets in the Outworld Wastes and making a go of it. Though I think they might end up sharing the Snow Raven constraint at that point where they manage to get so few of their numbers to the promised land that they don't have enough depth in their Laborer/Technician castes to flourish and don't have an available IS population to shove into that role either due to availability or political reasons. Even then though I think it has merits over chancing things in the middle of IS, so long as you're willing to make friends with the Snow Ravens ( which I don't think is that hard ).
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While I'm not entirely sure how they'd handle this politically if all Nova Cat wanted was some modicum of safety and worlds with resources sufficient to sustain and build themselves up there's always finding a half dozen unoccupied planets in the Outworld Wastes and making a go of it. Though I think they might end up sharing the Snow Raven constraint at that point where they manage to get so few of their numbers to the promised land that they don't have enough depth in their Laborer/Technician castes to flourish and don't have an available IS population to shove into that role either due to availability or political reasons. Even then though I think it has merits over chancing things in the middle of IS, so long as you're willing to make friends with the Snow Ravens ( which I don't think is that hard ).
Nova Cats need to find some place which also needs them just as much
As in some periphery planet(s) where locals would appreciate having some guys with big guns to keep the pirates away and who would bring some fancy technology with them to make life easier
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Nova Cats, what is left of them would need get as far as possible from the Inner Sphere and try rebuild themselves into some semblance of a Clan.
Clan Protectorate at the moment is only place they got, they need make nice with the local Sea Fox Spina Khanate fleet, try get that leg up, including warming up new Iron Wombs on Marik.
If they're able make it generation without being overranned by someone.
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Nova Cats, what is left of them would need get as far as possible from the Inner Sphere and try rebuild themselves into some semblance of a Clan.
Clan Protectorate at the moment is only place they got, they need make nice with the local Sea Fox Spina Khanate fleet, try get that leg up, including warming up new Iron Wombs on Marik.
If they're able make it generation without being overranned by someone.
The Clan Protectorate is a mix of 3 clan groups. First is some Nova Cat refugees (but not Kisho's group). Second is some Sea Foxes (I forget which, but it doesn't matter for this). Third is the Spirit Cats.
Prior to the blackout the Spirit Cats were members of the Republic, part of the Clan enclaves and Clan militia forces. They had some (we don't know how much) genetic data and iron wombs. The Clan enclaves were descendants of the Clan forces that joined Stone's coalition to stop the Word of Blake and then joined the nascent Republic. Rather than force these units to abandon their heritage they were given land and support to build Clan enclaves in Republic space. They could form Clan units, up to cluster size, and these were militia units outside of the main RAF units of the Triarii, Principes Guards, and Hastati. (See the 1st paragraph, left column, pg 185 of FM3085).
There were enclaves of every clan that gifted units to the Republic (FM3085, pg 167):
Clan Ghost Bear: 10th PGC, 13th PGC, 33rd PRG, 42nd PGC (A Galaxy-worth of garrison forces)
Clan Jade Falcon: Alpha Galaxy
Clan Wolf: Delta Galaxy
Clan Nova Cat: Alpha, Delta, and Tau Galaxies
While the details of how it came to be I have forgotten, I do recall there being discussion of at least one Hells Horse-enclave in the Republic somewhere.
Suffice it to say, the Clan Protectorate has iron wombs, it has genetic material to make sibkos, and in Kisho Nova Cat's entry in Legends, it says when the Oathmaster made him depart, Kisho had a complete technical and scientific database and samples of their entire bloodname genetic legacy. With a safe place and the resources Kisho could pull a fidelis 2.0, a Wolf in Exile 2.0, or something similar.
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While the details of how it came to be I have forgotten, I do recall there being discussion of at least one Hells Horse-enclave in the Republic somewhere.
Mentioned in Dragan Fletcher's bio in ER3145 (as an odd non sequitor that actually had nothing to do with him, lol). The Horses had a single Republic enclave, on Ruchbah. Presumably founded by those Horses warriors from the 11th Mechanized Cavalry in SCOUR that chose to remain behind. Also presumably the origin point of Kara Fletcher.
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Thanks wantec, this first time I've head of Iron Wombs and their associated technology getting to Marik. My knowledge was mostly based on MWDA novels, and Field Manuals/Era Digest.
I knew some of the elements Nova Cats from the Draconis Combine managed to escape, but I wasn't up to speed on Kisho Nova Cat (Not a Kurita in name).
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So I've been trying to chase down a weird little Nova Cat related bit of history deep dive info.
Sigma Galaxy and Tukayyid during the Jihad.
Specifically they were definitely assigned there in October of 3067 according to Field Manual Updates- mere months before the actual Blakist Attack on the planet.
Yet in none of the Jihad books I've been able to find references to the attack can I find anything about them being there in January of 3068. It seems strange that a whole Galaxy was posted there and suddenly didn't get hit by the fighting, hence the confusion?
Anyone know if there is a reference somewhere? Were large chunks off world at the time? Did they manage to get out of there? Did a bunch still get nuked? Or is this (very likely) just an authorial oversight that forgot they were present when writing those sections of the Jihad and they're magically elsewhere later on without damage? So far I've looked in Dawn of the Jihad, JHS:3070, Mercs Supplemental, and Field Manual Updates. As well as looked at the timeline in JHS: 3076 and Final Reckoning. Though only at the January and August writeups (as well as latter Ghost Bear liberation in 3070 entries)
(I admit this is all about trying to track down as much info as I can about the period from 3068-3070 on Tuk for potential campaign reasons, but that's why I want to find all I can!)
Every other unit on world then I've found reference to, the First Royals, Killer Bees, 21st Centauri Lancers, 278th and 472nd Comguard divisions. But while as it said, they seem to have been there, there's a huge gap before they next show up in Stone's Coalition.
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I think nearly as soon as the Nova Cats found out that the Star League was going to be dissolved they recalled all of their forces from Star League and Draconis Combine assignments without telling the defenders of either organisations which I think was one of the reasons cited by the Black Dragons and the Draconis Navy for attacking Nova Cat shipping.
I can't remember how quickly Tukayyid was hit after Tharkad but maybe the Nova Cats cleared out before the Blakists arrived
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I think nearly as soon as the Nova Cats found out that the Star League was going to be dissolved they recalled all of their forces from Star League and Draconis Combine assignments without telling the defenders of either organisations which I think was one of the reasons cited by the Black Dragons and the Draconis Navy for attacking Nova Cat shipping.
I can't remember how quickly Tukayyid was hit after Tharkad but maybe the Nova Cats cleared out before the Blakists arrived
Thank you! That's what I was looking for! Seems to be what I get for not looking up like... a few entries earlier on the timeline.
Seems the Nova Cats left Tuk on December 21. Exactly one month before the Blake Warships that hit Tharkad arrived.
Seems Tharkad was December 5. That stuff happened fast!
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Thank you! That's what I was looking for! Seems to be what I get for not looking up like... a few entries earlier on the timeline.
Seems the Nova Cats left Tuk on December 21. Exactly one month before the Blake Warships that hit Tharkad arrived.
Seems Tharkad was December 5. That stuff happened fast!
Out of curiosity which book is that in?
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Out of curiosity which book is that in?
Page 44 and 45 of Jihad: Final Reckoning.
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Thank you! That's what I was looking for! Seems to be what I get for not looking up like... a few entries earlier on the timeline.
Seems the Nova Cats left Tuk on December 21. Exactly one month before the Blake Warships that hit Tharkad arrived.
Seems Tharkad was December 5. That stuff happened fast!
I remembered it was one of the things that soured the DC populous to the Nova Cats initially during the Jihad
Of course once the Nova Cats came out guns blasting in all directions they repaired their reputation
Only for it to be soured again when they threw their lot in with Stone
The Jihad was a roller-coaster
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I remembered it was one of the things that soured the DC populous to the Nova Cats initially during the Jihad
Of course once the Nova Cats came out guns blasting in all directions they repaired their reputation
Only for it to be soured again when they threw their lot in with Stone
The Jihad was a roller-coaster
Precisely why I figured I should ask here. I've got some crazy factoids about the factions I like, but yikes a lot to keep track of! And the Jihad being mainly done in that weird rumor format at first made it even harder to follow (especially with no novels!). So if anyone was gonna remember quickly what it was, it would be someone in this thread.
But yeah, very much a roller-coaster, I do wish it would get some actual novels to make things a bit more clear too.
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I thought there was mention of a couple of stories being put in Shrapnel set during the Jihad
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Trothkin,
It has been a little quiet in our Nova Cat den for a while and I have a question I thought I would pose to our nest of kittens.
In your opinion: what was the greatest Nova Cat victory &/or engagement (not necessarily resulting in a victory)?
I realize that asking about an engagement we did not actually win is unorthodox, but some battles stand out even if we did not win them. For example, we lost Tukkayid, but the Battle of Lake Losiije stands out (likewise Luthien).
I am curious what stands out in your minds as some of our Clan's greatest moments?
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Winning the very first Trial of Position from the Star League in Exile to become a viable Clan.
I will except all forms of Grievances in a Circle of Equals.
TT
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So as of ilClan Era, where are the cats at ?
Just the Spirit Cats in The Protectorate ?
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Winning the very first Trial of Position from the Star League in Exile to become a viable Clan.
I will except all forms of Grievances in a Circle of Equals.
TT
Nice! During Operation: KLONDIKE on Circe with the Brotherhood of Fianna? Not bad from a Khan who defected from the Usurper to follow the General's vision. Agreed. It's also made me wonder how many of our Clan's early Founders might have studied under Andery at his school on Strana Mechty before his death on Eden?
I've always been proud of that moment on Circe too.
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from before the Nova Cats, Clans, or even the Exodus: Phillip Drummond defecting from the Rim Worlds Republic due to Amaris being Amaris, then successfully infiltrating SLDF headquarters to surrender to Kerensky in person. Absolute baller move, and one which foreshadows much of his Clan's eventual trials and tribulations, to the point where his personal Vision Quest survived until the Nova Cat rebellion, still piloted by a Khan.
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"True to General Alexander Kerensky's vision ?"
Can someone elaborate ? I am interested
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So as of ilClan Era, where are the cats at ?
Just the Spirit Cats in The Protectorate ?
Kisho's group is still unaccounted for.
I dont think we ever got spelled out what happened to the Nova Cat enclaved in Republic space. I gather many of them were in the Kuritan path so I doubt any good news to come on that aspect.
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from before the Nova Cats, Clans, or even the Exodus: Phillip Drummond defecting from the Rim Worlds Republic due to Amaris being Amaris, then successfully infiltrating SLDF headquarters to surrender to Kerensky in person. Absolute baller move, and one which foreshadows much of his Clan's eventual trials and tribulations, to the point where his personal Vision Quest survived until the Nova Cat rebellion, still piloted by a Khan.
Absolutely! Khan Drummond was hard-core.
I can't remember if I posted this here before, but I realized after reading Liberation of Terra I, that it was Major General James McEvedy who secured Apollo. This means that Drummond would have been put under McEvedy's "care" as they processed Drummond after he turned himself over to General Kerensky. That made me wonder if the friendship between Clan Wolverine and Nova Cat didn't start then. And while we don't know when Khans Sarah McEvedy or Sandra Rosse were born, they were clearly close in age. I'd like to imagine Drummond and McEvedy talking while their young daughters became friends.
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"True to General Alexander Kerensky's vision ?"
Can someone elaborate ? I am interested
I think General Alexander Kerensky's vision is that the SLDF and its dependents would hopefully one day return to the Inner Sphere to restore or rejoin the Star League. But they would return as the Star League-in-Exile, still committed to the same values of the original Star League, values which Nicholas Kerensky didn't share.
There's a great scene in Fall from Glory where Nicholas quotes Stalin about a million deaths only being a statistic and Andery - in horror - says "How dare you quote Stalin! Father would be ashamed!" This sums up to me the difference in vision between the two Generals Kerensky.
Clan Nova Cat has always - I think even when we were technically Crusaders - been committed to the restoration of the Star League. I don't think the horrors of Tukayyid suddenly turned us into Wardens, it just precipitated it. Our actions during Operation BULLDOG and our rejoining the 2nd Star League are consistent with our Clan's commitment to General Alexander Kerensky and the Star League.
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Clan Nova Cat has always - I think even when we were technically Crusaders - been committed to the restoration of the Star League. I don't think the horrors of Tukayyid suddenly turned us into Wardens, it just precipitated it. Our actions during Operation BULLDOG and our rejoining the 2nd Star League are consistent with our Clan's commitment to General Alexander Kerensky and the Star League.
I agree.
And especially this makes their history and destiny such a tragedy.
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Clan Nova Cat has always - I think even when we were technically Crusaders - been committed to the restoration of the Star League. I don't think the horrors of Tukayyid suddenly turned us into Wardens, it just precipitated it. Our actions during Operation BULLDOG and our rejoining the 2nd Star League are consistent with our Clan's commitment to General Alexander Kerensky and the Star League.
Invading Clans very specifically states that the Nova Cats were solidly Crusaders; there was nothing technical about it. I also think you're underestimating the effect of Tukayyid on the Cats; that event was arguably the most catastrophic thing that ever happened to the Crusader viewpoint, and the Nova Cats would hardly be the only Clan that found itself undergoing a fundamental introspection and transformation because of it. Prior to that, the Cats were unquestionably Crusader; they wanted to reclaim the worlds that gave birth to the Star League, and they wanted to be the ones leading the effort, which is about as Crusader as it gets.
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There's a great scene in Fall from Glory where Nicholas quotes Stalin about a million deaths only being a statistic and Andery - in horror - says "How dare you quote Stalin! Father would be ashamed!" This sums up to me the difference in vision between the two Generals Kerensky.
Yeah, kinda says it all :shocked:
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Kisho's group is still unaccounted for.
I dont think we ever got spelled out what happened to the Nova Cat enclaved in Republic space. I gather many of them were in the Kuritan path so I doubt any good news to come on that aspect.
At least some of them fled to Marik and became part of the Clan Protectorate. They also have their own grievances with the Spirit Cats who they view as dangerous cultists.
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Kisho's group is still unaccounted for.
I dont think we ever got spelled out what happened to the Nova Cat enclaved in Republic space. I gather many of them were in the Kuritan path so I doubt any good news to come on that aspect.
At least some of them fled to Marik and became part of the Clan Protectorate. They also have their own grievances with the Spirit Cats who they view as dangerous cultists.
There are snippets in the RecGuide about Nova Cat refugees (that are not Kisho) making their way over to the protectorate. However, this is one of those things I sort of doubt we'll ever see any hard numbers about.
Kisho's Mech and we can sort of assume Kisho's group was moving core ward away from the Republic and the Protectorate. I assume they spend at least some time hiding with the help of the O5Ps. Now, with Yori firmly in control, they are probably going to need to flee combine space, if they haven't already.
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Kisho's Mech and we can sort of assume Kisho's group was moving core ward away from the Republic and the Protectorate. I assume they spend at least some time hiding with the help of the O5Ps. Now, with Yori firmly in control, they are probably going to need to flee combine space, if they haven't already.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: it'd be hilarious if Kisho Nova Cat, his coterie of loyalists, and his copies of the Nova Cat bloodnames were to actually pull off an EXODUS 2.0, and show up out of nowhere in a few generations to enforce their Ways of Seeing upon those who doubted, abjured, and annihilated them, to 'rescue' their Spirit Cat and Clan Protectorate comrades, and ensure the rebirth of the Star League once and for all. It's not going to happen, but I'd pay money to see it.
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There are snippets in the RecGuide about Nova Cat refugees (that are not Kisho) making their way over to the protectorate. However, this is one of those things I sort of doubt we'll ever see any hard numbers about.
Kisho's Mech and we can sort of assume Kisho's group was moving core ward away from the Republic and the Protectorate. I assume they spend at least some time hiding with the help of the O5Ps. Now, with Yori firmly in control, they are probably going to need to flee combine space, if they haven't already.
I would assume there were at least a binary or so of warriors (plus support personnel) as the Clan Protectorate actually formed a cluster (The Novacat Provisional Cluster) around those refugees. But they also put Protectorate inhabitants into said Cluster. But I think that is as close to "hard numbers" as it can get
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At least some of them fled to Marik and became part of the Clan Protectorate. They also have their own grievances with the Spirit Cats who they view as dangerous cultists.
There are snippets in the RecGuide about Nova Cat refugees (that are not Kisho) making their way over to the protectorate. However, this is one of those things I sort of doubt we'll ever see any hard numbers about.
Kisho's Mech and we can sort of assume Kisho's group was moving core ward away from the Republic and the Protectorate. I assume they spend at least some time hiding with the help of the O5Ps. Now, with Yori firmly in control, they are probably going to need to flee combine space, if they haven't already.
Honestly I'd love it if Kishos group went out in a blaze of glory, they send the civilians and technical data to the Protectorate along with a message for the ilKhan
"Watch the Combine"
Then drop on New Samarkand and take out the Coordinator avenging the Nova Cats once and for all
I think a gesture and sacrifice like that would show exactly where the Cats stood to the ilKhan
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In Alaric's mind, I'm sure the Cats showed him where they stood when they betrayed the Clans and moved in with the most xenophobic and repressive of the Successor States. He'd probably even say that the Cats got exactly what they deserved for doing so.
I'm also not sure I'd call a suicide run to take out Yori (where success is extremely unlikely) even close to avenging genocide.
"Watch the Combine" also seems kind of redundant, all things considered. He'd be an idiot if he wasn't already watching them (and everyone else).
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In Alaric's mind, I'm sure the Cats showed him where they stood when they betrayed the Clans and moved in with the most xenophobic and repressive of the Successor States. He'd probably even say that the Cats got exactly what they deserved for doing so.
I'm also not sure I'd call a suicide run to take out Yori (where success is extremely unlikely) even close to avenging genocide.
"Watch the Combine" also seems kind of redundant, all things considered. He'd be an idiot if he wasn't already watching them (and everyone else).
Alaric spoke "fondlyish" of the Cat in CoK. The book maked it clear that their demise at the hands of the combine overshadows any betrayal to the of the ways of the Clans.
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Alaric is too much like his mother to not see the strategic necessity of maintaining the forms and formalities implied by being ilKhan of the ilClan, along with the implied "enemy of my enemy is my friend" nature of backing the Cats in the retrospect. Whether that equates to anything substantial remains to be seen, though he is too much like his father(s?) to not be spoiling for the chance to launch a glorious, noble crusade of one kind or another, current damage to the Wolf clan not withstanding. It makes for interesting speculation while I begrudgingly paint up a trinary of Spirit Cat 'Mechs for the sake of the future.
Really though, at some level I'd just love to see the Nova Cats have the chance to not be killed offscreen. I mean don't get me wrong, if Kisho wanted to pull an inverse-Scorpions and set up some kind of periphery realm north of the Ravens, I'd be thrilled. That said, if the Cats did an end-run back to the Homeworlds with the express purpose to sacrificing themselves to light the fuse on the great purging fires of Clan CloudStone AdderYote upon the Combine, I could live with that as well. What can I say? I'm a simple fellow at heart.
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Same: I hate factions/people/things being offscreen in general. I need fiction for it!
Yes you can say I’m OCD about having everything wrapped up with a neat little bow but I just want finality in a story: I want to know the end!
I’d also love to see a Nova Cat/Spirit Cat revenge force a la Alshain Avengers drop on Luthien. Would be entertaining for sure.
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Same: I hate factions/people/things being offscreen in general. I need fiction for it!
This right here is why I wrote "It Ends in Fire".
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This right here is why I wrote "It Ends in Fire".
For which we are deeply grateful for such a great story!
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For which we are deeply grateful for such a great story!
Agreed! And why I wish my writing skills were better.
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Agreed! And why I wish my writing skills were better.
It's all about practice :)
And persistence.
And bleeding fingers ;)
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Kisho's group is still unaccounted for.
I dont think we ever got spelled out what happened to the Nova Cat enclaved in Republic space. I gather many of them were in the Kuritan path so I doubt any good news to come on that aspect.
In whichever TRO had the Bishop VTOL Transport, it said that the Nova Cat enclaves in Republic space conquered by the Combine were genocided. There was a Shitara Provisional Galaxy that had stayed out of the Civil War, and the Dracs were keeping them at arms length but also leaving them be, but then moved in to sterilize and murder all the Shitara Nova Cat civilians 'because'. The Shitara Galaxy got in the way and died defending them.
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In whichever TRO had the Bishop VTOL Transport, it said that the Nova Cat enclaves in Republic space conquered by the Combine were genocided. There was a Shitara Provisional Galaxy that had stayed out of the Civil War, and the Dracs were keeping them at arms length but also leaving them be, but then moved in to sterilize and murder all the Shitara Nova Cat civilians 'because'. The Shitara Galaxy got in the way and died defending them.
Combine is nothing if not thorough
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Combine is nothing if not thorough
The Combine is famous for leaving the job 90% done but still calling it finished.
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The Combine is famous for leaving the job 90% done but still calling it finished.
This lol. They TRY to be thorough (and to brutal extremes) but they never are fully. The Jaguar Warship Fleet is a GREAT example (on top of the Jaguars themselves of course). Basically the details go ‘meh we think we got them all, except these ones… and oh yeah we misplaced a couple that we tagged for salvage… oh those Blakist ships look familiar…’
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Enclaves of Nova Cats were not only on the planets captured by Kurita. If we delve into the sources on the Dark Age, we will find mention of such enclaves on worlds that went to the Bears, Wolves and Davions. And one of the enclaves of Spirit Cats generally on the border with FWL in 3137.
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If there are any enclaves not mentioned in the current books either the powers that be have forgotten about them or are they are planning something.
Personally, I think that it we won't see much of it.
The only thing I am not sure of is how the relationship with the spirit cats and what's going on ilClan will transpire. Alaric said so much suggest he will not tolerate Inner Sphere powers destroying a Clan.
It will depend on how he will view the Clan Protectorate and it's Nova Cat descendants. If you will recognize them as Clan and if not target for absorption or destruction by the Clans .
We can only hope for the best.
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Enclaves of Nova Cats were not only on the planets captured by Kurita. If we delve into the sources on the Dark Age, we will find mention of such enclaves on worlds that went to the Bears, Wolves and Davions. And one of the enclaves of Spirit Cats generally on the border with FWL in 3137.
I think it's an open question about how Clanny those former-Republic Nova Cat Enclaves still are.
A Splinter of Hope has a Falcon-Republican, that read very much like a 3rd generation immigrant version of a culturally assimilated person of Clan decent. That sort of assimilation could have been that situation that Rosse was trying to avoid with the establishment of the Spirit Cats to be a purer form of Cat. Rosse's Spirit Cats might be a reactionary movement against NovaCat-Repubic enclaves that had assimilated into the broader culture of the Republic. The Spirit Cats could have easily pulled in all the remaining true Nova Cat Clanners living inside the Republic, leaving behind ethnic communities, not not Clan Style enclaves.
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So upcoming lance packs that are Star-League centric will feature the Wendigo.
2nd Star League Assault pack: Daishi Prometheus, Emperor, Argus, Helios, coolant truck
3rd Star League Striker Pack: Lament, Jackalope, Kintaro, Hammerhead II, Havoc, J-27
3rd Star League Battle Pack: Savage Wolf, Wendigo, Excalibur, Peace Keeper, Savior Vehicle
Looks like Kisho Nova Cat will get a pilot card in that 3rd/4th pack.
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For those who are looking for anything relatively CNC related... (Not exactly been common lately. :D)
If you haven't been following threads in the other parts of the forum, a playtest/preview of the Mechcommander's Handbook is up in the General forum. Included inside are a RAT and some Nova Cat standard formations for the Clan Invasion era (among others). To no great surprise, lots of Shadow Cats, Huntsman, Supernovas and other staples. Not sure why the Huntsman is being listed as a Heavy mech, mind you, unless this is commentary on how we view it for force building terms. Ignore the Huntsman being listed as Heavy. Error that's already been noted.
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Do like seeing the non-Omni Supernova in front-line formations; nice to see the occasional Vision Quest as well; I like that the Turkina doesn't become a significant part of our touman 'til after the Smoke Jaguar is annihilated and we feast off its corpse...
We've a good selection of IIC 'mechs across the board; I am pleasantly surprised that the Vapor Eagle is as common as it is.
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Can't lie, I'm a fan of Falcon-made 'Mechs in general, so I've always loved throwing a Turkina or two into my formations. You know, as a little present for myself. And my opponents.
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Hey, not sure if this has been discussed before but I was just reading the Battle of Tukayyid book since I'm in a campaign where I'll be running Clan Nova Cat.
Anyway, something occurred to me. Back when I was reading about the battle in the 90s, the description given said that the Nova Cats lost basically because they were too slow and cautious with heading toward their objectives. Was the destruction of the Cat's Maw a retcon?
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Hey, not sure if this has been discussed before but I was just reading the Battle of Tukayyid book since I'm in a campaign where I'll be running Clan Nova Cat.
Anyway, something occurred to me. Back when I was reading about the battle in the 90s, the description given said that the Nova Cats lost basically because they were too slow and cautious with heading toward their objectives. Was the destruction of the Cat's Maw a retcon?
I'm not 100% sure, but I don't see why both explanations can't be true. Perhaps they were being overly cautious because they'd lost some 40% of their forces right out of the gate, and hoped to keep their remaining 'Mechs in fighting shape as long as possible. Considering that the Cat's Maw apparently carried most of the Nova Cats' ammunition and logistical equipment, and that we know the Nova Cat front of the battle of Tukayyid inflicted the greatest ComGuard losses of the battle, a picture begins to emerge...
Assuming that both the Cat's Maw getting kamikaze'd happened, and that the Nova Cat loss was due to their caution, we have a scenario in which the Nova Cats lost most of Alpha Galaxy before they even set a paw on Tukayyid and were still capable of achieving their wargoals, if they had marshalled all their remaining forces in a blitzkrieg strike. In that scenario, they would have had a good chance to take at least one, if not both, of their objectives. This is a pretty significant look at A, just how poorly IS tech of the era compared to Clantech, and B, just how good Clan Nova Cat's Warriors and materiel are. Or, if you really think like a Clanner, that they could've bid away a lot more of their force and stolen the honor of landing first from the Smoke Jaguars.
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Or if they hadn't waited so long to deploy their air cover, the Cat's Maw wouldn't have been destroyed and they'd likely have achieved a win.
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I mean, yeah, if you want to be sensible. Add "don't have the entirety of your Keshik Galaxy in one dropship" to the mix.
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Or if they hadn't waited so long to deploy their air cover, the Cat's Maw wouldn't have been destroyed and they'd likely have achieved a win.
The original Tukayyid book is also just notoriously inaccurate. For example, the Nova Cat senior Khan is listed as Benjamin Garr, who is later corrected to be a Galaxy Commander. Similar with Istal Devalis, who was a Star Colonel, but is incorrectly listed in the original Tukayyid as being elected as the new Khan after the battle of Tukayyid.
I think the story of Khan Leroux, the Cat's Maw, and the short story "Shadow of Death" in the anthology, all just make a better and more interesting story. As a narrative arc, it gives a more consistent explanation of why we lost, in spite of how well we fought.
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Assuming that both the Cat's Maw getting kamikaze'd happened, and that the Nova Cat loss was due to their caution, we have a scenario in which the Nova Cats lost most of Alpha Galaxy before they even set a paw on Tukayyid and were still capable of achieving their wargoals, if they had marshalled all their remaining forces in a blitzkrieg strike. In that scenario, they would have had a good chance to take at least one, if not both, of their objectives. This is a pretty significant look at A, just how poorly IS tech of the era compared to Clantech, and B, just how good Clan Nova Cat's Warriors and materiel are. Or, if you really think like a Clanner, that they could've bid away a lot more of their force and stolen the honor of landing first from the Smoke Jaguars.
Agreed. I think this is why the short story "Shadow of Death" is important. Basically, Khan Leroux and Oathmaster Winters did everything they could to make sure we wouldn't take our objectives, and even still, the Cats roared extremely close.
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For those who are looking for anything relatively CNC related... (Not exactly been common lately. :D)
If you haven't been following threads in the other parts of the forum, a playtest/preview of the Mechcommander's Handbook is up in the General forum. Included inside are a RAT and some Nova Cat standard formations for the Clan Invasion era (among others). To no great surprise, lots of Shadow Cats, Huntsman, Supernovas and other staples. Not sure why the Huntsman is being listed as a Heavy mech, mind you, unless this is commentary on how we view it for force building terms. Ignore the Huntsman being listed as Heavy. Error that's already been noted.
This is a nice plug! I really like the work that's being done on the MechCommander's Handbook and I'm really glad they are sticking with keeping the Cats.
I love that they even included the Vision Quest, which I am pretty sure no other Clan fields that particular Mech.
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I love that they even included the Vision Quest, which I am pretty sure no other Clan fields that particular Mech.
I think the Snow Ravens field(ed) some...the Vision Quest 2 was a joint production between them and the Nova Cats, and it shows up in their list on the MUL. Also the first Khan's Vision Quest survived as a museum piece until the Kuritan coup that killed the Nova Cats, where it went out piloted by our last Khan. Gigachad 'Mech energy.
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I think the Snow Ravens field(ed) some...the Vision Quest 2 was a joint production between them and the Nova Cats, and it shows up in their list on the MUL. Also the first Khan's Vision Quest survived as a museum piece until the Kuritan coup that killed the Nova Cats, where it went out piloted by our last Khan. Gigachad 'Mech energy.
I think you're a right, although I am pretty sure they got the Vision Quest from us and then we retooled it together. According to the MUL it seems to have been out of the Snow Raven touman by the time of the Invasion/end of the Political Century.
I was just re-reading some of the character description of Khan Drummond from Land of Dreams yesterday, and I would like to think his spirit was with Khan Nostra as the nukes detonated on her formation, as Alan wrote in his story: shaking "its arm at the sky."
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So I got my hands on the Battle of Tukayyid short story anthology, how do you all feel about the reveal about Khan Lereox and that essentially the entire Clan Nova Cat campaign was sabotaged by him?
I've been rethinking @Spirit Cat Refugee's post for a while now. And I feel bad that I didn't give it a better response, because it deserves one. I reread "Shadow of Death", the Nova Cat short story from the Battle of Tukayyid Anthology, for the umpteenth time. I think the story is probably one of the most defining stories of our Clan, and I'm not sure how to interpret it. So I guess I would love to hear from @Spirit Cat Refugee (and others), what do _you_ take the story to mean?
Here are some of my thoughts: Khan Leroux wasn't alone in planning this, Oathmaster Winters, the entire Nova Cat high-command, several Bloodnames warriors. It was basically a conspiracy to dramatically alter the course of the Nova Cat future by having us fail our objectives (which it seems like we could have taken), and further propel the Clans overall loss at Tukayyid. This loss ensured that our Clan would abandon the old Clan ways, rejoin the Star League (as we were meant to), and adapt.
For me the biggest lingering question is, how far did that future extend? Obviously multiple individuals participated in this Vision, all seeing some variation of the same thing (no matter how painful, and it was clearly painful). Did this Vision extend just to our joining the Second Star League? After? Up to the jihad and Dark Age? Up to the ilClan era? Does it include the creation of the Mystic Caste? The Spirit Cats? Part of me really wants to believe so, because if it was just the immediate aftermath of Tukayyid and the Great Refusal, it feels like too heavy a burden and too much of a loss.
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Nova Cat visions have always run on post hoc rationalization.
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Hopefully what scant Nova Cat survivors are left will wise up and stop with the vision nonsense. You'd think after suffering multiple genocides, they'd learn.
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One will have a vision that visions are not safe so they will ban visions until a new vision will grant them new insight
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One will have a vision that visions are not safe so they will ban visions until a new vision will grant them new insight
😂🤣😝
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Hopefully what scant Nova Cat survivors are left will wise up and stop with the vision nonsense. You'd think after suffering multiple genocides, they'd learn.
Have you tried getting a cat to do something it doesn't want to do?! :laugh:
Now I have to wonder whether Nova Cat enclaves have doors, otherwise no one would ever get any work done.
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Have you tried getting a cat to do something it doesn't want to do?! :laugh:
Nope, actually. I hate cats. Except Nova Cats. And Spirit Cats. And Smoke Jaguars. But cat-cats? Hardest of passes. :laugh:
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Nope, actually. I hate cats. Except Nova Cats. And Spirit Cats. And Smoke Jaguars. But cat-cats? Hardest of passes. :laugh:
😄
Well, I'm glad you like Clan based cats!
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Probably too soon....
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1T9GqGpBi4z6sZCtWHGhtVLzAMOMRvhV4)(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1T9GqGpBi4z6sZCtWHGhtVLzAMOMRvhV4)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1T9GqGpBi4z6sZCtWHGhtVLzAMOMRvhV4)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1T9GqGpBi4z6sZCtWHGhtVLzAMOMRvhV4)
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Hopefully what scant Nova Cat survivors are left will wise up and stop with the vision nonsense. You'd think after suffering multiple genocides, they'd learn.
It was visions that guided the Spirit Cats to get as far away from the Republic as they could and saved them from the most recent genocide. It was the Kesari, or anti-vision Nova Cats who plunged the Clan into near-extinction in the Dark Age.
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It was visions that guided the Spirit Cats to get as far away from the Republic as they could and saved them from the most recent genocide. It was the Kesari, or anti-vision Nova Cats who plunged the Clan into near-extinction in the Dark Age.
Humor aside, I agree. We wouldn't be Nova Cats without the Ways of Seeing. It permeates every aspect of our Clan's culture.
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It was visions that guided the Spirit Cats to get as far away from the Republic as they could and saved them from the most recent genocide.
Common sense would've told them that, honestly. I stand by my statement. :laugh:
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Common sense would've told them that, honestly. I stand by my statement. :laugh:
I suspect that a large number of visions are just common sense. Sometimes common sense is the hardest thing to see clearly. There's no reason why the two can't go hand in hand.
<Looks at the Smoke Jaguars>"I've had a Vision: Orbital bombardment is not an effective means of controlling resistant populations."
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I feel like the Nova Cats were onto something with the Mystics, because those weren't "visions" so much as fine-tuning the brain to extrapolate information from data. Whereas the invasion-era stuff was a little... dicey to me. And it probably didn't help that BattleTech has had several shifts in direction that have made things very inconsistent over the years. If that makes any sense?
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I think that makes perfect sense. I've written before that I think the Nova Cats Visions and especially the Mystics (the whole Ways of Seeing) was closer to Mentat training from the Dune books. There's nothing especially "mystical" or supernatural about it, it's simply tapping into the human mind's potential. Just because the message is in symbolic form (like dreams), doesn't necessarily mean it isn't highly informative. The hard part is figuring out what's important and what's just imagery.
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I feel like the Nova Cats were onto something with the Mystics, because those weren't "visions" so much as fine-tuning the brain to extrapolate information from data.
I was always under the impression that the Rite of the Vision was just that sort of extrapolation: causing enough deprivation to force the brain to discard more rational thought processes and make connections that the conscious mind normally wouldn't. The lack of age-related stigma among Clan Nova Cat I think hints at the above explanation: an older Warrior caste has more experience separating the wheat from the chaff when it comes to their vision, especially in the case of the Oathmaster. Your mileage may vary on all of the above of course, but there are some RL examples of people who either are non-neurotypical or use psychotropic drugs and leverage those into discoveries and breakthroughs in the sciences that may not otherwise have occurred. The Mystic caste is basically an experiment in making such intuitive leaps reliable, predictable, and at-will, and from what we've seen, it can work. The downside, of course, is what you have to to to make a Mystic.
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I was always under the impression that the Rite of the Vision was just that sort of extrapolation: causing enough deprivation to force the brain to discard more rational thought processes and make connections that the conscious mind normally wouldn't.
I think another example of this are the vineers. Its important that they are not war trophies, but function as a focus for the recollection of past battles, whether successful or not. The Nova Cat warriors are effectively priming their minds anytime they interact with one to relive and reanalyze an event on an unconscious level. The "sacrifice" of these during the Rite of Vision is designed to focus the warrior towards future possibilities. My favorite example is (Khan) Santin West doing it five times (!) and subsequently destroying the entire Smoke Jaguar Tau Galaxy. Khan Leroux's "gift" to ilKhan Lincoln Osis was equally priceless.
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Cats need to adopt Seeker approach to visions
Instead of acting on them immediately as if they are 100% facts they need to have the person having them present the "findings" to the higher ups who then analyze it and decide if the particular vision is something that should go to the next phase
Especially if the vision is about the course that entire Clan should take
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Cats need to adopt Seeker approach to visions
Instead of acting on them immediately as if they are 100% facts they need to have the person having them present the "findings" to the higher ups who then analyze it and decide if the particular vision is something that should go to the next phase
Especially if the vision is about the course that entire Clan should take
Seems like visions could be conveniently ignored if they didn't suit the current political climate of the Clan. Most visions I assume don't actually deal with the Clan as a whole. Plenty of Spirit Cats who had personal visions just about themselves.
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Cats need to adopt Seeker approach to visions
Instead of acting on them immediately as if they are 100% facts they need to have the person having them present the "findings" to the higher ups who then analyze it and decide if the particular vision is something that should go to the next phase
Especially if the vision is about the course that entire Clan should take
The Cats don't need to adopt anything from the Seekers. This is something they already do. It's one of the primary things that the Oathmaster role is responsible for. They don't just act immediately on any random Nova Cat's visions.
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Cats need to adopt Seeker approach to visions
Instead of acting on them immediately as if they are 100% facts they need to have the person having them present the "findings" to the higher ups who then analyze it and decide if the particular vision is something that should go to the next phase
Especially if the vision is about the course that entire Clan should take
That's what the Oathmaster role is for.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Oathmaster_of_Clan_Nova_Cat
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I've been away the whole weekend and missed a lot of forum stuff, but something interesting came up in my newsfeed. I'm always reticent to speculate too much about our Clan's future, for fear of - continued - sorrows, but there may be some good news (beyond the continued excitement for @parable's amazing Nova Cat cosplay/vineers. No matter how long it takes, it will be glorious).
From rumor on Facebook at this weekend's AdeptiCon, Randall (Bills) is working on a Nova Cat/Spirit Cat novel (image from @Helm Memory Core attached). Correct me if I am wrong, but Randall has written the majority of Nova Cat related cannon stories. That we are getting a dedicated novel to how the Nova Cats/Spirit Cats are doing in the timeline is - hopefully - exciting.
My own aspiration is that if we can, like Istal_Devalis's signature, remind the writers and devs that as a Clan, our story is "not forgotten", we'll continue to hear more about how the Cats are doing in the ilClan era.
Seyla!
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I did ask a bunch of the authors there what they were working on but I don’t think I actually asked Randall. But not surprised to hear. IIRC I did hear something to the effect because one of the guys at the Con I was talking to seemed really excited for the news that Kishio was coming back in some form or another but please don’t quote me on that
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(beyond the continued excitement for @parable's amazing Nova Cat cosplay/vineers. No matter how long it takes, it will be glorious).
My tax return weeps, because I read this part of your post and immediately ordered most of the ceremonial outfit pieces. Also very hype re: new Nova/Spirit Cat content. I have some dark premonitions, but I remain excited anyway.
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My tax return weeps, because I read this part of your post and immediately ordered most of the ceremonial outfit pieces. Also very hype re: new Nova/Spirit Cat content. I have some dark premonitions, but I remain excited anyway.
Darn, definitely didn't mean for that to happen! Hopefully it was a gentle weeping and will continue to be a labor of love!
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I did ask a bunch of the authors there what they were working on but I don’t think I actually asked Randall. But not surprised to hear. IIRC I did hear something to the effect because one of the guys at the Con I was talking to seemed really excited for the news that Kishio was coming back in some form or another but please don’t quote me on that
Thanks for the confirmation - no quoting - that it was talked about. Sounds like the Con was great! Hopefully there's some exciting BattleTech literature coming down the road.
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Thanks for the confirmation - no quoting - that it was talked about. Sounds like the Con was great! Hopefully there's some exciting BattleTech literature coming down the road.
There are definitely some good literature coming in the near future. A lot of older stories are getting follow ups, like potentially the Black Thorns and Avanti’s Angels. Sequels to some Dark Age/ IlClan stuff (Bryan Young is working on more Jiyi Christu stuff as well as Terran Falcons), and everything in between.
They mention some of it during the Livestreams: in the General Thread Lorcan Nagle time stamped the livestreams for people. Even though I was there I still need to watch them cause I missed a bunch.
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There are definitely some good literature coming in the near future. A lot of older stories are getting follow ups, like potentially the Black Thorns and Avanti’s Angels. Sequels to some Dark Age/ IlClan stuff (Bryan Young is working on more Jiyi Christu stuff as well as Terran Falcons), and everything in between.
They mention some of it during the Livestreams: in the General Thread Lorcan Nagle time stamped the livestreams for people. Even though I was there I still need to watch them cause I missed a bunch.
:grin: gg
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I noticed a mistake today while reading over Legends I again, it mentions a Mystic Tiber Rosse, but that's impossible, as prior canon stated that all Mystics have Minoru Kurita as genemother, to preclude them from a bloodname. That was something Kisho thought about several times in his novel.
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I noticed a mistake today while reading over Legends I again, it mentions a Mystic Tiber Rosse, but that's impossible, as prior canon stated that all Mystics have Minoru Kurita as genemother, to preclude them from a bloodname. That was something Kisho thought about several times in his novel.
As pretty as Legends as a book is, it's rife with errors like that, unfortunately.
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I noticed a mistake today while reading over Legends I again, it mentions a Mystic Tiber Rosse, but that's impossible, as prior canon stated that all Mystics have Minoru Kurita as genemother, to preclude them from a bloodname. That was something Kisho thought about several times in his novel.
Huh, you're right. I did a search on Sarna and I don't see any other references to Tiber Rosse. I wonder if you dropped that in the Errata thread if they would change it (all they would have to do is replace Rosse with Nova Cat) in future printings. There is no official CGL errata for Legends, so it might be worth bringing it to their attention.
Nice catch!
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Huh, you're right. I did a search on Sarna and I don't see any other references to Tiber Rosse. I wonder if you dropped that in the Errata thread if they would change it (all they would have to do is replace Rosse with Nova Cat) in future printings. There is no official CGL errata for Legends, so it might be worth bringing it to their attention.
Nice catch!
One of the CGL devs on their discord said it had been brought to their attention earlier and they were fixing it.
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One of the CGL devs on their discord said it had been brought to their attention earlier and they were fixing it.
Nice. I guess I should pay more (any) attention to the discord server. Glad they're fixing it though.
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Darn, definitely didn't mean for that to happen! Hopefully it was a gentle weeping and will continue to be a labor of love!
I've been hemming and hawing over it for a while now and it's not putting me out much--I was delivered a call to action and am heeding it. The headpiece, there's the real work. I can spend all I want, but making a good looking custom headpiece will be the real problem. This is "while parable's account gently weeps," not "cosplay's silver hammer."
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I've been hemming and hawing over it for a while now and it's not putting me out much--I was delivered a call to action and am heeding it. The headpiece, there's the real work. I can spend all I want, but making a good looking custom headpiece will be the real problem. This is "while parable's account gently weeps," not "cosplay's silver hammer."
Oh good. I can only imagine the complexity of the headpiece! Are you going to try and do the whole outfit described in FM Comstar?
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Oh good. I can only imagine the complexity of the headpiece! Are you going to try and do the whole outfit described in FM Comstar?
Yep. Vest, shorts, sandals, fingerless gloves, all in black leather with some studs for accents, black Nova Cat headpiece with quills.
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Yep. Vest, shorts, sandals, fingerless gloves, all in black leather with some studs for accents, black Nova Cat headpiece with quills.
That's going to look A-MA-ZING.
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This discussion has taken a weird turn.
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Weird is one of the definitions of Clan Nova Cat in the Battletech Lexicon.
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The real reason we got kicked out of the Clans. Our ceremonial rizz was to strong for the rest of them. :D
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The real reason we got kicked out of the Clans. Our ceremonial rizz was to strong for the rest of them. :D
Probably the most apt analysis of our Abjuration.
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This discussion has taken a weird turn.
Huzzeyla!
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The real reason we got kicked out of the Clans. Our ceremonial rizz was to strong for the rest of them. :D
Also the true source of Combine hostility.
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Also the true source of Combine hostility.
TBF, you're not wrong.
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The real reason we got kicked out of the Clans. Our ceremonial rizz was to strong for the rest of them. :D
I mean, Clan Blood Spirit's red Cobra Commander ceremonial uniform is pretty baller, ngl. But the Nova Cat leaned into the "leatherdaddy furry" side of things and it hit the other clans' insecurities a bit too hard. It mightn't be a stretch to say that the Nova Cats are the Rob Halford to the Clans' metal scene.
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I mean, Clan Blood Spirit's red Cobra Commander ceremonial uniform is pretty baller, ngl. But the Nova Cat leaned into the "leatherdaddy furry" side of things and it hit the other clans' insecurities a bit too hard. It mightn't be a stretch to say that the Nova Cats are the Rob Halford to the Clans' metal scene.
I lived in Berlin for many years and would drink at a metal bar called the Rockcafe Halford, which (at the time), had an 8-foot tall paper mache statue of Rob Halford in leathers.
I will now repurpose the memory of that as a Nova Cat Elemental in ceremonial attire thanks to you. :laugh:
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Looks to me my Nova Cat throtkin spent couple of days too many in the sweat lodge :shocked:
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Looks to me my Nova Cat throtkin spent couple of days too many in the sweat lodge :shocked:
That's where we burn the catnip and keep our fur clean? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Or something like that.
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Weird is one of the definitions of Clan Nova Cat in the Battletech Lexicon.
Looks to me my Nova Cat throtkin spent couple of days too many in the sweat lodge :shocked:
It's telling that in Field Manual: Comstar the general vibe the Nova Cat author gives off when talking about ceremonial garb and how they used to have to tone it down for Grand Council meetings feels to me like a catharsis. "As a concession to our more traditional brethren, when the Khans attended a Grand Council, the vest and shorts were replaced by a full-length black-leather suit in the same style. Obviously, this is no longer necessary."
Now, given how over the top other Clan ceremonial uniforms are, the only real difference I can find between Clan Nova Cat and the others is that the Nova Cat ceremonial uniform shows more skin--but the Clans surely wouldn't care about that, right? Is it that it resembles casual clothes? Actually, this has piqued my interest. Why, of IIRC all the Clans, did Nova Cat feel the need to amend their ceremonial uniform for inter-Clan relations?
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Now, given how over the top other Clan ceremonial uniforms are, the only real difference I can find between Clan Nova Cat and the others is that the Nova Cat ceremonial uniform shows more skin--but the Clans surely wouldn't care about that, right? Is it that it resembles casual clothes? Actually, this has piqued my interest. Why, of IIRC all the Clans, did Nova Cat feel the need to amend their ceremonial uniform for inter-Clan relations?
The Clans obviously care about nudity to some degree, or they'd be nude a lot more often. And while they may be okay with nudity in less-formal situations, they may still feel it inappropriate/irreverent to do so during ceremonial occasions.
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Now, given how over the top other Clan ceremonial uniforms are, the only real difference I can find between Clan Nova Cat and the others is that the Nova Cat ceremonial uniform shows more skin--but the Clans surely wouldn't care about that, right? Is it that it resembles casual clothes? Actually, this has piqued my interest. Why, of IIRC all the Clans, did Nova Cat feel the need to amend their ceremonial uniform for inter-Clan relations?
This is a great question and this passage has been rolling around in my head since I re-read it yesterday. I think you are right, I don't think it's about the skin. I think it's about the lack of formality and what that represents. Most of the Clans seem incredibly uptight and formal. Deviating from this is dangerous and potentially un-Clan like. The bonfire ceremonies that the Cats have are wild, untamed, and tap into something that is barely controlled/controllable. Worse, that Khan Rosse had a vision of leading the Nova Cats to a perfect society that was not the one designed by Nicolas, borders on heresy.
Nicolas barely tolerated our quasi-mystical/"religious" attitudes, to eschew Clan formality at the Grand Council would be a slap in the Great Founder's face. I think the full-body black leather cat suit for the Kurultai is a concession and a protection that yes, we can come to heel, and not about modesty.
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Alternatively, they're just jealous of our abs routine and the fact we dont skip leg day. You know the Smoke Jaguars skip leg day.
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You know the Smoke Jaguars skip leg day.
They absolutely do not skip leg day. They're pouncers.
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They absolutely do not skip leg day. They're pouncers.
They don't need leg day, they get all the exercise they need running from war crime to war crime.
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They don't need leg day, they get all the exercise they need running from war crime to war crime.
Better than running from genocide to genocide. :evil:
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Better than running from genocide to genocide. :evil:
As in: running from (your own) genocide to genocide? To be fair, we're the only reason the Jags escaped their genocide.
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Alternatively, they're just jealous of our abs routine and the fact we dont skip leg day. You know the Smoke Jaguars skip leg day.
Wait. Are we the Clan equivalent of Right Said Fred??!?!?!?
🎶I'm too sexy for this mech, too sexy for this mech, too sexy for Ker-ren-sky....🎶
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As in: running from (your own) genocide to genocide?
I don't know what that means.
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Better than running from genocide to genocide. :evil:
Is that not the Word of Blake strategic doctrine?
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March 31st is the International Transgender Day of Visibility
Nova Cats see all, welcome all (except stravag).
This particular Nova Cat ally, believes BattleTech is for everyone.
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March 31st is the International Transgender Day of Visibility
Nova Cats see all, welcome all (except stravag).
This particular Nova Cat ally, believes BattleTech is for everyone.
Seyla!
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Primary phase of ceremonial uniform done. https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=84581
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Primary phase of ceremonial uniform done. https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=84581 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=84581)
Parable brings honor to Clan Nova Cat!
This is outstanding! Love the mandarin collar with the studs and that you've even put the codex on. The vineer pouch turned out really nicely and I think you scored on the sandals!
Are you going to try and do a Galaxy and Rank insignia too? (Old) Alpha is probably the easiest, and Warrior and Point Commander could probably be done without much fuss.
Stoked for your progress!
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Can any provide me a list of the cats clan homeworld holdings before their abjurment?
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Can any provide me a list of the cats clan homeworld holdings before their abjurment?
The single best source is probably the poster from the Clan Homeworlds political poster from the Clan Kickstarter. That said, the Cats didn't own 100% of any one world, so there is no "homeworld". The closest equivalent to the Nova Cat "homeworld" is Barcella, which was considered our capital until 3060. Or do you want to know all of the planets where the Nova Cats had territory until our Abjuration?
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How come the Cats didn't have full control of any worlds? Wasn't that pretty rare among the Clans at the time?
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The Cats were one of the richer pre-Invasion Clans, up there with the Diamond Sharks and the Jade Falcons. My best guesses are that they either were shrewd about what territories they bid for (to conserve resources, etc.), or their successes made their enemies a bit more angry than they were prepared for and the maps reflected it.
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The Cats were one of the richer pre-Invasion Clans, up there with the Diamond Sharks and the Jade Falcons. My best guesses are that they either were shrewd about what territories they bid for (to conserve resources, etc.), or their successes made their enemies a bit more angry than they were prepared for and the maps reflected it.
Note that part of the reason Clan Nova Cat was a wealthy Clan was that they were the ones to reintroduce futures trading to the early Clans. I'd posit that Clan Nova Cat was usually of the mind that having exclusive control of any given planet was far less important than economic--and thus military--security. Resources in the Kerensky Cluster are poor, the habitability is mid at best, so there's a hard limit on how much any Clan can expand in a given time. You sell resource-rich land to another Clan for a share of the materiel it eventually produces, and both sides come out ahead.
tl;dr: I honestly think Clan Nova Cat had no exclusive worlds because they sold off the parts of worlds they didn't need.
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Not to mention that usually a Clan aquires resources by trialing (aka doing some battle things) and when suddenly someone offers a less lethal but efficient method of getting what one needs you can imagine how other Clans jump on it. After all both sides win: the provider needs less garrison units and the buyer doesn't have to invest Mechs / warriors creating less waste in their touman. The downside though: your warriors might loose their edge
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The downside though: your warriors might loose their edge
Luckily the solution to that problem is going walkabout on a vision quest, during which you toss your most prized possessions into a campfire while starving and dehydrating yourself until you hallucinate REALLY HARD. The Oathmaster will tell you how this helps you retain your warrior edge. (The Clans are objectively pretty goofy)
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How come the Cats didn't have full control of any worlds? Wasn't that pretty rare among the Clans at the time?
IIRC, not having one Clan have sole ownership of a world was established by ilKhan Kerensky by design. He wanted them to fight each other and be dependent on one another. That said, by 3052, some Clans had full control of planets, notably: Burrock (Albion), Coyote (Tamaron), Fire Mandrill (Shadow), Jade Falcon (Kirin), Star Adder (Sheridan). And in some cases, Huntress, the Clan owned all but a tiny percent of the planet.
As far as Nova Cat holdings go, and it would be interesting to look up what is on these planets, we have:
- Barcella (55%) - Nova Cat capital
- Bearclaw (20%)
- Brim (20%)
- Circe (20%)
- Delios (30%)
- Gatekeeper (40%)
- Hoard (30%)
- Lum (40%)
- Strana Mechty (6% - like every Clan)
The Jade Falcons and Diamond Sharks had a few more planets than the Nova Cats, but in some cases with significantly smaller stakes (Jade Falcons owned 2% of Huntress and 5% of York). The Sharks are by far the largest, but the Nova Cats come second. And, as I think was mentioned, we had a special relationship with the Sharks, our closest ally.
I've also always thought it odd that we own no part of the homeworld of our totem animal, the Nova Cat of Dagda. But maybe it was decided that Dagda wasn't worth holding.
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I've also always thought it odd that we own no part of the homeworld of our totem animal, the Nova Cat of Dagda. But maybe it was decided that Dagda wasn't worth holding.
The Cats weren't part of taking Dagda during OpKlondike, so it would be harder for them to establish a foothold on it later. And I highly doubt it's because they decided it wasn't worth holding; the Pentagon Worlds were pretty valuable to the Clans. It's also not unusual that a Clan doesn't hold territory from their totem's native world; the Mandrills and Burrocks didn't hold territory on Eden, the Scorpions didn't initially hold territory on Babylon, the Cobras didn't initially hold territory on Arcadia, etc.
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The Cats weren't part of taking Dagda during OpKlondike, so it would be harder for them to establish a foothold on it later. And I highly doubt it's because they decided it wasn't worth holding; the Pentagon Worlds were pretty valuable to the Clans. It's also not unusual that a Clan doesn't hold territory from their totem's native world; the Mandrills and Burrocks didn't hold territory on Eden, the Scorpions didn't initially hold territory on Babylon, the Cobras didn't initially hold territory on Arcadia, etc.
Yeah, I had factored in OP Klondike and what I was thinking of in terms of any Clan "holding" parts of Pentagon worlds is that getting and keeping pieces of them is expensive (beyond what you managed to grab as part of Klondike).
Didn't realize the case of the Mandrills and Burrocks, but it makes sense. Thanks!
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IIRC, not having one Clan have sole ownership of a world was established by ilKhan Kerensky by design. He wanted them to fight each other and be dependent on one another. That said, by 3052, some Clans had full control of planets, notably: Burrock (Albion), Coyote (Tamaron), Fire Mandrill (Shadow), Jade Falcon (Kirin), Star Adder (Sheridan). And in some cases, Huntress, the Clan owned all but a tiny percent of the planet.
As far as Nova Cat holdings go, and it would be interesting to look up what is on these planets, we have:
- Barcella (55%) - Nova Cat capital
- Bearclaw (20%)
- Brim (20%)
- Circe (20%)
- Delios (30%)
- Gatekeeper (40%)
- Hoard (30%)
- Lum (40%)
- Strana Mechty (6% - like every Clan)
The Jade Falcons and Diamond Sharks had a few more planets than the Nova Cats, but in some cases with significantly smaller stakes (Jade Falcons owned 2% of Huntress and 5% of York). The Sharks are by far the largest, but the Nova Cats come second. And, as I think was mentioned, we had a special relationship with the Sharks, our closest ally.
I've also always thought it odd that we own no part of the homeworld of our totem animal, the Nova Cat of Dagda. But maybe it was decided that Dagda wasn't worth holding.
Thanks!! The reason I ask is because I assumed that the fire mandrills and blood spirits attacked them during their abjurement but I was unsure of what worlds were logical flashpoints
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Thanks!! The reason I ask is because I assumed that the fire mandrills and blood spirits attacked them during their abjurement but I was unsure of what worlds were logical flashpoints
Yeah, hard to say. We know the Bearclaw enclave was attacked by Snow Ravens and Hell's Horses, several enclaves were given to the Diamond Sharks, but I don't know of any attacks specifically made by either Fire Mandrills or Blood Spirits on Nova Cat enclaves. You could see ownership by those Clans on Cat worlds post-3060 and that would give you a good idea.
tassa_kay, do you know?
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Not off-hand, and it's weird, because the FM:CC Mandrill entry specifies them going after former Burrock holdings on Dagda and Jaguar holdings on Atreus (and they also seized Pahn City and its Warhawk-producing industriplex on Huntress), and FM:U doesn't mention anything at all.
It almost seems like an oversight that the Cats' holdings weren't mentioned, especially because they called out the Cats' betrayal in their "Regarding Other Clans" section. Then again, being angry at the Cats doesn't mean the kindraa were able to get their **** together enough to do anything about it.
The Spirits I don't think ever took any Cat holdings. As of 3067, all they held was York, their Strana Mechty enclave, and their old enclave on Arcadia that they retook from the Adders. Any holdings they got on worlds like Barcella were seized long after the Cats were gone, taken during the chaos of the WoR.
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100% claims on a planet are a bit of a fools game. Empty space is just scores on a ledger. It's just territory. The important bits are the major population centers and production facilities. AFAICT there's not that much material beyond the big strokes when it came to who took what during the abjurement. I wouldnt worry about the fine details to much if this is for a story or scenario.
(I also wouldnt say we were allies with Clan Diamond Shark, really. More 'friendly rivals' thanks to our competing merchant castes. But that's probably as close as allies as most Clans get. Post-Abjurement 'we like you enough to not shoot you on sight' goes a long ways, too.
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100% claims on a planet are a bit of a fools game. Empty space is just scores on a ledger. It's just territory. The important bits are the major population centers and production facilities. AFAICT there's not that much material beyond the big strokes when it came to who took what during the abjurement. I wouldnt worry about the fine details to much if this is for a story or scenario.
It almost seems redundant to have to say this on these forums of all places, but some of us like knowing the details. :laugh:
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Not off-hand, and it's weird, because the FM:CC Mandrill entry specifies them going after former Burrock holdings on Dagda and Jaguar holdings on Atreus (and they also seized Pahn City and its Warhawk-producing industriplex on Huntress), and FM:U doesn't mention anything at all.
It almost seems like an oversight that the Cats' holdings weren't mentioned, especially because they called out the Cats' betrayal in their "Regarding Other Clans" section. Then again, being angry at the Cats doesn't mean the kindraa were able to get their **** together enough to do anything about it.
The Spirits I don't think ever took any Cat holdings. As of 3067, all they held was York, their Strana Mechty enclave, and their old enclave on Arcadia that they retook from the Adders. Any holdings they got on worlds like Barcella were seized long after the Cats were gone, taken during the chaos of the WoR.
Thanks Tassa and that’s helpful with their limited assets it makes sense to me that the mandrills chose striking the jags over the cats. The spirits also would have been still recovering from the mauling they took in the absorption war as well…
Hmmm what about striking at the convos which were leaving?
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Hmmm what about striking at the convos which were leaving?
I can absolutely see this being the case, but I also think I recall reading that the Ravens were running point on convoy defense for them, too.
EDIT: Confirmed this was the case, as mentioned in the Ravens' FM:WC entry. It's how the Ravens earned their Circe enclaves from the Cats, by providing a screening force for the Cats' withdrawal and escort through the Deep Periphery.
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EDIT: Confirmed this was the case, as mentioned in the Ravens' FM:WC entry. It's how the Ravens earned their Circe enclaves from the Cats, by providing a screening force for the Cats' withdrawal and escort through the Deep Periphery.
Thanks. This confirms what I remember. Although seems like Ravens were happy to both attack our enclaves AND escort us to the Periphery. But, fair is fair
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Thanks. This confirms what I remember. Although seems like Ravens were happy to both attack our enclaves AND escort us to the Periphery. But, fair is fair
Did the Ravens attack the Cats' enclaves? The only instances I could find were Bearclaw (which the Ravens negotiated from the Cats) and Circe (which the Cats gave their permission).
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Did the Ravens attack the Cats' enclaves? The only instances I could find were Bearclaw (which the Ravens negotiated from the Cats) and Circe (which the Cats gave their permission).
Path of Glory mentions a couple of times that the Ravens attacked the Bearclaw enclave while the Bearclaw HPG was down. I thought that the Circe enclave had been negotiated to give safcon to the whole Clan (or what could get out). It could be that the Cats on Bearclaw, not knowing what was going on, perceived they were being attacked and fired first on the Ravens. Zane Nova Cat isn't the most reliable or even tempered narrator, so it's hard to say.
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Path of Glory mentions a couple of times that the Ravens attacked the Bearclaw enclave while the Bearclaw HPG was down. I thought that the Circe enclave had been negotiated to give safcon to the whole Clan (or what could get out). It could be that the Cats on Bearclaw, not knowing what was going on, perceived they were being attacked and fired first on the Ravens. Zane Nova Cat isn't the most reliable or even tempered narrator, so it's hard to say.
Considering how chaotic those fights were it could always be that in the confusion supposed "peaceful takeover" turn into bloody battles. Or perhaps the Ravens take the enclaves and suddenly another Clan enters the fray (that happened according to Paths of Glory) and suddenly you have a free for all.
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Considering how chaotic those fights were it could always be that in the confusion supposed "peaceful takeover" turn into bloody battles. Or perhaps the Ravens take the enclaves and suddenly another Clan enters the fray (that happened according to Paths of Glory) and suddenly you have a free for all.
Yeah, especially when the defending unit has no idea what's going on and no ability to ask Higher for a SITREP. And also our description of the events is again from Zane, who had a limited perspective.
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There was one battle at the beginning of Paths of Glory that was from the view of a Nova Cat commander who tried holding the enclave as long as possible while the civilians evacuate. I think they were fighting against almost all Crusader Clans but at least one of those suddenly turned on another (might have been the Hellions) Also in that battle the Adders apparently lost one of their Warships
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Path of Glory mentions a couple of times that the Ravens attacked the Bearclaw enclave while the Bearclaw HPG was down. I thought that the Circe enclave had been negotiated to give safcon to the whole Clan (or what could get out). It could be that the Cats on Bearclaw, not knowing what was going on, perceived they were being attacked and fired first on the Ravens. Zane Nova Cat isn't the most reliable or even tempered narrator, so it's hard to say.
Oh no, the Cats definitely didn't attack first; Path of Glory notes that the Ravens and Horses ambushed them. The Ravens might've negotiated for the Cats' enclaves on Bearclaw after that battle.
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I can absolutely see this being the case, but I also think I recall reading that the Ravens were running point on convoy defense for them, too.
EDIT: Confirmed this was the case, as mentioned in the Ravens' FM:WC entry. It's how the Ravens earned their Circe enclaves from the Cats, by providing a screening force for the Cats' withdrawal and escort through the Deep Periphery.
Right!! I forgot about that… I am certain the mandrills and spirits did attack the cats at some point during that mess but I gotta think it was not in multi sided pitched battles. With where things stood with each of those clans at that moment I would think picking off a lagging convo or snapping up a cache left poorly defended would make more sense
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If the Spirits ever attacked the Cats as they withdrew, I can't find any mention of it.
There was one battle at the beginning of Paths of Glory that was from the view of a Nova Cat commander who tried holding the enclave as long as possible while the civilians evacuate. I think they were fighting against almost all Crusader Clans but at least one of those suddenly turned on another (might have been the Hellions) Also in that battle the Adders apparently lost one of their Warships
That was Hoard, where the Cats were fighting the Hellions, Adders, Wolves and Horses.
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Thanks. This confirms what I remember. Although seems like Ravens were happy to both attack our enclaves AND escort us to the Periphery. But, fair is fair
Playing both sides and generally being inscrutable is pretty on-brand for the Snow Ravens.
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Playing both sides and generally being inscrutable is pretty on-brand for the Snow Ravens.
While this is true, I think it was just bad writing to include the Ravens in that ambush in the first place. Every other source shows that the Ravens were perfectly willing to help the Cats out (for a profit, ofc), it seems to contradict the fact that the Ravens bargained for that enclave, the Ravens have never been particularly Crusader-ish and certainly not to a fanatical degree, and they themselves ended up leaving Clan space to shack up with Spheroids (and in the Periphery at that). Path of Glory should've used another Clan, IMO.
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It is better to take that as a product of the chaos and confusion around the move rather than as an objective fact.
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I can see the note coming into the HPG now, "Dear Clan Nova Cat, thanks for ceding your Kerensky cluster holdings to us in exchange for our helping your Clan survive its abjuration. Oh and by the way, sorry for attacking your Clan during that selfsame abjuration, things are pretty crazy for all of us right now, you know? Seriously, our bad. Sincerely, Clan Snow Raven"
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I can see the note coming into the HPG now, "Dear Clan Nova Cat, thanks for ceding your Kerensky cluster holdings to us in exchange for our helping your Clan survive its abjuration. Oh and by the way, sorry for attacking your Clan during that selfsame abjuration, things are pretty crazy for all of us right now, you know? Seriously, our bad. Sincerely, Clan Snow Raven"
"Sorry for the 8 million dead. Lol.😂😭"
[Were there emojis on the Chatterweb?]
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I'm sure that the Clans view emojis as a form of contractions.
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I'm sure that the Clans view emojis as a form of contractions.
I got to thinking about this and I think they'd love them. We all know the Clans like contractions, just ones that are THEIRS, quiaff? And in a highly-regimented society, bold, straightforward symbols would be the norm. MSDS symbols, military hand and arm signals, semaphore, constructivist art, &c. In fact, I think they'de promote them à la 1984: break emotion down to symbols representing a range in the spectrum, and weed out symbols whose influence you don't want in your society. No tired faces that look sad, because being tired means you did your duty and should be satisfied with that. Nothing that even references pregnancy or marriage: yes, it happens, but it shouldn't be normalized and it's a hindrance to Clan superiority. And so on and so forth. Add strictures to who can access what based on caste and rank and you have a VERY solid argument that a widespread system of emojis, smileys, and .gifs would be something the Clans, at least the Watch and any leaders worried that the other castes might organize, would very much like to have.
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I'm sure that the Clans view emojis as a form of contractions.
the chatterweb excerpts showed that the chatters were not exactly above using contradictions or even 'lol' to egg each other on. Though no emojis. Maybe the administrators thought that would be too much IS style. Though what emojis might be good? A barbarian face? Surats? A Falcon waving it's wing perhaps?
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Emojis are a step too close to real-world nonsense for me, and certainly don't feel very Clan-like (I tend to agree that they'd be akin to contractions in Clan eyes).
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Emojis are a step too close to real-world nonsense for me, and certainly don't feel very Clan-like (I tend to agree that they'd be akin to contractions in Clan eyes).
Despite being the person to originally pose this question, I agree for the most part that emojis feel un-Clan-like, at least for the Warrior caste.
That said, I think Parable makes a convincing argument for the use of such things among the lower castes as further modifying their language away from that used by the Great Houses. What if the Diamond Sharks created, ala Clan Spaniel, an entire code of symbols for the lower castes (following Metallgewitter's suggestion)? Modifications of military map symbols for use by the technicians and laborers that IntelSer and the Watch could monitor? Cute ways of indoctrinating freeborn children to adhere to Clan values?
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"Sorry for the 8 million dead. Lol.😂😭"
[Were there emojis on the Chatterweb?]
Definitely
Emojis are the least wasteful method of communication
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I mean, until anything even remotely like this idea pops up in canon (and I really hope it doesn't; the very last thing I ever want to see in BattleTech fiction, and especially amongst the Clans, is friggin' emojis), I'm not sure there's an answer for "what if?" here. Hopefully emojis have gone the way of the dodo in the future of BattleTech. Even "lol" in the Chatterweb was immersion breaking to me.
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I mean, until anything even remotely like this idea pops up in canon (and I really hope it doesn't; the very last thing I ever want to see in BattleTech fiction, and especially amongst the Clans, is friggin' emojis), I'm not sure there's an answer for "what if?" here. Hopefully emojis have gone the way of the dodo in the future of BattleTech. Even "lol" in the Chatterweb was immersion breaking to me.
I think I 100% agree. There's a lot of BattleTech speculation I really enjoy. I like the what if? aspect, I like looking things up, I like reasoning consistently within lore and accounting for differences in the universe and 1000+ years from now. And then some things I think: "No. No friggin' way."
I stand by my defense of Parable's thought process, but I want to move on to more wholesome speculation...
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This may be a topic that may only be of particular interest to me, but I would love thoughts from others. I've been consistently fascinated by the character of saKhan Lucian Carns (who should have been played by Lance Reddick in any BattleTech film) and I've tried to reason out why. We know a lot about him, in many ways more than we know about many of our other Khans and saKhans (even Leroux).
While it has never been 100% confirmed it is implied that Carns was originally a Clan Wolf Warrior. For purposes of speculation, I am going to accept that as true. So a ristar Bloodnamed Wolf warrior, who tested out of his ToP as a Star Captain, is taken as bondsperson in our Clan, earns his way in to our Warrior ranks, we don't know much of his career as a Nova Cat, but fairly quickly becomes saKhan. For a LONG time. TP: REVIVAL Trials has him as saKhan before the Invasion in 3048. In 3058, at the age of 80 (!!!) he and Leroux score "impressive" victories in their Trials of Position, and along with the other Nova Cat high-command was involved in the Vision Quest to bring us to the 2nd Star League.
I guess what really fascinates me is how does a Wolf ristar so accept and embrace Nova Cat culture that he rises so high? The vast majority of references to Nova Cats in the literature always smirkingly say something like: "Oh, the Nova Cats? They're ...different." But clearly Carns was able to completely embody our culture and rise to the top.
Asking myself this question about Carns then led me to wonder, what other Clans would do well as Nova Cat bondsmen? And which wouldn't?
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He could have been an ailurophile the whole time. Perhaps even an odd duck from the get-go.
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Cloud Cobra and Nova Cat took each other as bondsmen enough that there's a Nova Cat mystic cloister of the Cloud Cobras (Rossei) and a Galaxy of Nova Cats (Xi) that largely adheres to said cloister's beliefs, so there's some proof that the two Clans were culturally close enough that their bondsmen could integrate. I'd imagine that a Nova Cat could do worse than Goliath Scorpion: mysticism, visions of the future, a love of and knack for sharpshooting, &c. Of course, they'd basically have to pick up a drug addiction. The reverse might work, but I doubt any Clan would take a bondsman who will immediately go into withdrawal.
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He could have been an ailurophile the whole time. Perhaps even an odd duck from the get-go.
Agreed, but in most clans, odd-ducks aren't that accomplished before they are taken bondsmen. There's no reason not to think he wouldn't have become at least a Star Colonel if he had remained in Wolf (and maybe only that, but still) and then somehow shoots up through our ranks too.
I agree with you, there is a large part that is certainly his particular personality, but I think there's also a question of "fit".
Also, outstanding use of ailurophile. Ailuronovisphilis? My Latin declensions are rusty.
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Agreed, but in most clans, odd-ducks aren't that accomplished before they are taken bondsmen. There's no reason not to think he wouldn't have become at least a Star Colonel if he had remained in Wolf (and maybe only that, but still) and then somehow shoots up through our ranks too.
I agree with you, there is a large part that is certainly his particular personality, but I think there's also a question of "fit".
Also, outstanding use of ailurophile. ? My Latin declensions are rusty.
There always could have been a backhanded deal involved, for fear that he might have made it to at least Galaxy Commander in Clan Wolf. In the Clans, the cultural barriers vs internal politicking vs competence is a thing. In the Ravens for instance outsiders would never make it high due to the cultural barriers and internal politicking. He could have been too out there for even Clan Wolf.
As for Ailuronovisphilis, we can treat it as an irregular loanword. That way it fits him.
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I've been consistently fascinated by the character of saKhan Lucian Carns (who should have been played by Lance Reddick in any BattleTech film)
First point: Is Lucian Carns not Lance Reddick(RIP)?
But on the topic of "who would do well as Nova Cat bondsmen?" I have a simple answer: anyone who fears being solahma. Phillip Drummond was the longest-lived of the original Khans: at 77, after outliving his daughter and overcoming ALS or MS or thereabouts, trialed back into Warrior and became the third Nova Cat Khan until his death (I think of natural causes?) at 112. Vlad Ward teased Marthe Pryde about her age by suggesting she join the Nova Cats (until our abjuration took the humor from it). I mean, in the great refusal, IIRC the Nova Cats took only 2 casualties to beat the entire Ice Hellion detachment: Lucian Carns and his Khan, Severen Leroux (82 years old at the time).
If you're near 30 and not bloodnamed or favored by someone, you're looking at a future of garrison duty and suicide charges--against dark caste, lucrewarriors, pirates--not even real opponents. You're taken as a bondsman by Clan Nova Cat. The one clan that doesn't see age as an albatross or millstone around your neck. The one that, quelle surprise, views experience and age as assets, not liabilities. Would you care that they mostly see age as a benefit because of how it allows them to refine their mystical visions? Would you point out that a large part of their refusal to go out in one's prime, in a blaze of glory, is simply due to a quirk of their history and their 1st/3rd Khan? I sure wouldn't. I'd buckle down, get on board, and thank the Kerenskys that I had an opportunity to, when most Clans would mark me solahma and cannon fodder, become something of a ristar once more.
Add in how thinly stretched Clan Nova Cat was after their abjuration--even if you'd never get a bloodname (no Nova Cat genes, and you're not likely getting a reply from your home bloodhouse), you still might be slotted into a front-line formation as a full-fledged Nova Cat Warrior.
A better deal than being made bondsman by most other Clans, I'd say.
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I wouldn’t take a handful of cherry-picked, and admittedly exceptional, examples of aged warriors in important positions as any sort of modus operandi. Per FM:Comstar (page 109, if you want a specific reference), the Nova Cats put warriors into solahma units just like every other Clan does. And we’ve seen lots of examples over the last decade or so of publication (ER3145 and FM3145) of bondsmen from other Clans and even Inner Sphere powers (the Ravens have a former Combine bondsman commanding a frontline Cluster, and Jake Kabrinski rose from bondsman to Khan of his new Clan) to show that the Nova Cats aren’t even remotely unique or exceptional in this regard. And frankly, given the Cats’ downward spiral post-Refusal, I think there’s a case to be made that the Cats are the last Clan one might want to end up as a bondsman. They end up beholden to an Inner Sphere power that not only costs them their autonomy, but eventually their very lives.
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Fair enough. I suppose I took Vlad Ward's needling of Marthe Pryde on its face more than I should've--I suppose I saw it as "well, there's this one oddball Clan that doesn't care about age" versus a reading of "hey, join the oddball Clan that has a couple ancient Warriors, you might fit in with them." Which, now that I put it in words, feels like it hews to the latter. That said, it does seem that age is at least less of a concern among the Nova Cats. All else, I will concede.
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You also need to remember that warriors aren't forced into being solahama troops, they can request to be transferred to one of civilian castes (or police units or maybe Watch?) if they don't like the idea of going out in combat
Majority simply sees it as huge dishonor
Obstacle is cultural not legal
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That said, it does seem that age is at least less of a concern among the Nova Cats. All else, I will concede.
I think you are safe in saying, and correct when you suggested previously, that age is seen in the Nova Cats with value. Our Khans stay as Khans as long as many Warriors have careers. Khan Drummond: Khan for 50 years. Khan Leroux: Khan for 25 years (in his 80s at death, which if I am correct, means he became Khan when he was over 50). Khan West: Khan for 38 years. There is a weird exception with Khan Abram Radick given that we don't know when Khan Radick became Khan. It seems likely that between Drummond and Radick there were other Khans.
This isn't to say that other Clans don't have Khans who reigned for decades, but we seem to have few Khans but for longer periods. I don't know if I would go so far as to say that it is official Clan modus operandi, but it is clear that age in leaders in the Nova Cats is seen as a benefit.
As for Nova Cat solahma units, I am sure they are full of young and old warriors alike. Age alone does not keep you an active duty Star Captain or Star Colonel, being exceptional does. But Clan Nova Cat doesn't forcibly retire exceptional warriors just because of their age.
I would agree with Tassa that by the time we get to the Inner Sphere, the Nova Cats are probably the last Clan a Clanner would want to be made a bondsperson to, I would imagine bondsref to be very high for anyone taken by the Nova Cats post-Abjuration.
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If you're near 30 and not bloodnamed or favored by someone, you're looking at a future of garrison duty and suicide charges--against dark caste, lucrewarriors, pirates--not even real opponents. You're taken as a bondsman by Clan Nova Cat. The one clan that doesn't see age as an albatross or millstone around your neck. The one that, quelle surprise, views experience and age as assets, not liabilities. Would you care that they mostly see age as a benefit because of how it allows them to refine their mystical visions? Would you point out that a large part of their refusal to go out in one's prime, in a blaze of glory, is simply due to a quirk of their history and their 1st/3rd Khan? I sure wouldn't. I'd buckle down, get on board, and thank the Kerenskys that I had an opportunity to, when most Clans would mark me solahma and cannon fodder, become something of a ristar once more.
I don't think this would be the norm, Clan culture is too ingrained for that to be the norm, rather than the exception.
That said, it would make for a really cool character in a story! I'd love to see a "redeamed" old time rise back through the ranks praising their new Clan for giving them the chance no one else would.
(And yes, technically this is what happened to Trent, but Trent was always a Jaguar, and it is clear that Khan Leroux already knew of Inanna Nova Cat's Visions and formulated an elaborate plan when he severed Trent's bondcord).
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As for Nova Cat solahma units, I am sure they are full of young and old warriors alike. Age alone does not keep you an active duty Star Captain or Star Colonel, being exceptional does. But Clan Nova Cat doesn't forcibly retire exceptional warriors just because of their age.
Why would a solahma unit have young warriors in its ranks? They are by definition made up of old and/or dying warriors. And if the Nova Cats didn’t retire their rank-and-file warriors, they wouldn’t have solahma units to begin with.
I think you’re reading a bit too much into the fact that the Nova Cats have some codgers in leadership positions, which again is not unique to them. Lynn McKenna held her Khanship until she was 89. James Cobb held his until he was 80, and he died in his sleep. Aletha Kabribski was Khan at 81 and was losing her mental faculties.
It seems to me that respected Khans remain in their roles until they’re challenged for them and lose regardless of their Clan… or they die in battle. Rank-and-file warriors simply aren’t going to be given that same sort of consideration, and there’s nothing in canon to suggest that the Cats are any different in this regard.
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I wouldn’t take a handful of cherry-picked, and admittedly exceptional, examples of aged warriors in important positions as any sort of modus operandi. Per FM:Comstar (page 109, if you want a specific reference), the Nova Cats put warriors into solahma units just like every other Clan does.
FM:Comstar (p 107) also says "...Even among the Nova Cats, who allow their warriors to remain in active service much longer then other Clans...." so there's something to it. What we dont know is what this means in practical terms. Are we talking 5 years? 10? Is it limited to just command positions?
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I remember a line in Prince of Havoc where Victor met the Nova Cat Khans and was surprised by their ages. One of them said something about how the Cats didn't hold age in such disdain as the other Clans.
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If I had to guess (and this is just that, my speculation), it's that they've de-emphasized age as a number more in favor of other factors. The warrior's battlefield skills, the warrior's health, their ability to maintain the standards set by the Clan, which again might emphasize factors other than age.
It really does feel like for some other Clans, age is a prime consideration. Trent was sent to Huntress in his 30s, and he was all but convinced he would be relegated to second-line or solahma status and not be sent back to the OZ because of it. Considerations like his skills as a warrior seemed not to matter. So for the Smoke Jags, age was a top-line consideration.
For the Nova Cats, it might just be de-emphasized in favor of other metrics.
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It probably depnds on the warrior and Clan. For example in the 2nd novel of the Kerensky bloodline trilogy Phelan joined a game of Lacrosse and Vlad had one of the players who had just turned 30 give Phelan his equipment. Said warrior stated he was already on the decline and had to obey the "superior" Vlad. At the same time Ulric stated he waited until the right bloodname was open despite him being in his mid-thirties (I think) when he finally got it. I would assume it is a combination of things. For example if you are perhaps slightly above 30 and have no real acheivement to your name you are probably on the short end for relegation. But others (like Ulric) who have achievements and maybe even had opportunities for bloodname trials gain a bit more "life" on the frontlines.I would assume that Clans like the Adders and Cats are perhaps more accomodating to older warriors. The Adders are pragmatists and most likely value experienced warriors more over younger ones and the Cats most likely value the insight age produces. Insight which might help to understand visions. And let's not forget the Nova Cat Khans handily won the required trial to confirm their Kahn positions (the trial that is demanded by the Clan council)
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If I had to guess (and this is just that, my speculation), it's that they've de-emphasized age as a number more in favor of other factors. The warrior's battlefield skills, the warrior's health, their ability to maintain the standards set by the Clan, which again might emphasize factors other than age.
It really does feel like for some other Clans, age is a prime consideration. Trent was sent to Huntress in his 30s, and he was all but convinced he would be relegated to second-line or solahma status and not be sent back to the OZ because of it. Considerations like his skills as a warrior seemed not to matter. So for the Smoke Jags, age was a top-line consideration.
For the Nova Cats, it might just be de-emphasized in favor of other metrics.
In the case of Trent, there was also the issues that he'd failed at getting a bloodname at least once (due to sabotage), had no sponsor from his Bloodhouse or other political allies left, and Paul Moon was actively trying to get rid of all the Tukayyid veterans in his unit.
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In the case of Trent, there was also the issues that he'd failed at getting a bloodname at least once (due to sabotage), had no sponsor from his Bloodhouse or other political allies left, and Paul Moon was actively trying to get rid of all the Tukayyid veterans in his unit.
It will be interesting to see if the new Smoke Jaguars attitudes about age change now, given that he is now the longest lived known Clan trueborn and married to a Nova Cat.
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If I had to guess (and this is just that, my speculation), it's that they've de-emphasized age as a number more in favor of other factors. The warrior's battlefield skills, the warrior's health, their ability to maintain the standards set by the Clan, which again might emphasize factors other than age.
For the Nova Cats, it might just be de-emphasized in favor of other metrics.
That's sorta my opinion on the matter. Age does matter, but only as it applies to the natural degradation of physical and mental facilities as you get older. So long as you can pass your Trials, you're fine. There is no inherent bias over your age just BECAUSE of your age. But if you start losing Trials...
Sort of a natural outgrowth of the 'If it works, use it' Nova Cat mentality there. So long as they're doing the job and no one better is taking their place, why get rid of them for a marginal 'you're this old' number.
Relatedly, also my opinion, but I expect you're more likely to get needed surgeries to prolong you combat lifespan, and not be passed over for younger pilots, just because they're younger.
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There is a Nova Cat character in Dark Age Robert Bravos who IS discriminated against because of his age, retired before his prime. So it happens.
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There is a Nova Cat character in Dark Age Robert Bravos who IS discriminated against because of his age, retired before his prime. So it happens.
Huh, you're right. Although I am slightly distrustful of the source, but MW:Dark Age Dossiers and Pilot Cards clearly says that he was a Bloodnamed ristar who was made solahma by age 37. The description of him is kind of hilarious.
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Huh, you're right. Although I am slightly distrustful of the source, but MW:Dark Age Dossiers and Pilot Cards clearly says that he was a Bloodnamed ristar who was made solahma by age 37. The description of him is kind of hilarious.
I could easily see a superior commander in the Nova Cats who feels Nova Cat differences in things such as visions and age tolerance is what led to their downfall and exile perhaps being overzealous to enforce such general Clan norms almost out of spite/reflect.
Robert Bravos is still kicking though as of 3150 I think, he last appeared in TRO 3150.
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I could easily see a superior commander in the Nova Cats who feels Nova Cat differences in things such as visions and age tolerance is what led to their downfall and exile perhaps being overzealous to enforce such general Clan norms almost out of spite/reflect.
Robert Bravos is still kicking though as of 3150 I think, he last appeared in TRO 3150.
Agreed, and I can imagine that there are some members of the Cats who think that we should be "more Clan like" given the Dark Age times, and thus act more like hard-line Clans.
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I mean, it's not like they said the age bias doesnt exist at all. It's just doesnt seem to be as prevalent as in other clans. 37 is positively ancient by Clan standards for someone not in a command position :D.