Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza

[truetanker]

It's a pink and yellow polka dot mankini, with a dagger star cod piece, and a headband that says "Nova Catz rule" in an elaborately stylized font  :thumbsup:

So like Sean Connery "s Zardoz outfit, sans the mask?  ???

TT

[cmerwin]

So like Sean Connery "s Zardoz outfit, sans the mask?  ???

TT

;D ;D ;D

[cmerwin]

so, I know it's off current topic, but it's Nova Cat general so...

how do y'all see their ceremonial outfit?  Leather vest and shorts, the former with an explicitly studded collar...I'm thinking sleeveless biker jacket, similar motorcycle shorts, Greek-style sandals, and a masquerade-style mask with quills to represent the Nova Cats' totem animal.  The latter part is my main concern: they just describe it as an elaborate stylized Nova Cat headpiece, which could be anything from a cat-ear tiara to a snarling Nova Cat fascinator.

Remember, FM: Comstar has the CNC say that their ceremonial garb was considered extreme and weird by literally all the other clans, so...

Or, if you want to engage more technically: How is it that the Nova Cats have basically nothing but good 'Mech designs?

Okay, 1) a Nova Cat ceremonial cosplay sounds RAD! 2) Re-reading the FM: Comstar entry, and trying hard not to just see a version of Clan Village People, I imagined it sorta how you described it. I see the vest as more of a straight up normal ("basic") leather vest, or possibly a mandarin vest. Bare foot or Greek sandals sounds right, and I imagine the vineer pouch as a kind of black leather sporran, probably with nova cat fur on the pouch.

But I tried to imagine what the ceremonial outfit was for, why would the Cats wear such an outfit? And I was reminded of the classic Nova Cat image of the mechs all parked in a circle with a blazing fire and the warriors dancing around the fire, and it occurred to me that the headpiece may have been similar to the native American (especially Lakota) buffalo headdress (or Aztec headdresses), used in important ceremonies. So my guess is that it would have been the whole upper head of a nova cat, along with a good portion of the rest of its pelt. Attached in such a way that you could have a hard night of dancing after doing a boat ton of catnip.


So the reason they are wearing shorts and a sleeveless vest is to keep cool while dancing your paws off, the sporran carries their valuable vineers, their individual story as a warrior, but the headdress is the most important, because it links them together with the Vision and Spirit of the Clan as a whole. Plus, at a certain blurry point in the evening, everything just looks like jumping and prowling nova cats.

[cmerwin]

So I was thinking about @parable's comment about the ceremonial garb and it got me to thinking more broadly about Cat culture, before we left the homeworlds. Specifically, I realized I couldn't think much about the Cat homeworlds, or what they were like. Sure, Circe is where Rosse and Drummond came from, Dagda is where the nova cat itself is from, although according to the Political Balance Table on the Clan Homeworlds 3052 poster, we only controlled 20% of those planets. Our major planets were Barcella (Capital, 55%), Gatekeeper (40%, shared with JF), and Londerholm (40%, shared with IH and SJ).


Thing is, none of these planets list major cities or give a snapshot of what Cat populations were like. Post-abjuration (3062), Barcella had a pretty high population (by Clan standards): 37,000,000. Thing is, in FM: Comstar, Oathmaster Winters says that "we were able to relocate the few survivors of our Civilian Caste...". This makes me think that the Barcella population (and other Cat owned planets) had much larger populations, pre-Abjuration.


I guess I am just wondering if anyone remembers any other places - FM, novels, etc. - where there is a description, or memory of a description, of a place in the Cat homeworlds (pre-Irece)? Or how many civilians we lost? The Cats managed to escape with only 3 Clusters, so that's a HUGE loss.


My apologies if this is well known, I'm not caught up yet with as much Jihad and Dark Age material and am working through what the Cats left behind.

[WONC]

Someone else may have the numbers on hand, but I recall that in several instances, the Cats lost tacit Trials against some friendlier Clans, who then took wholesale control of big chunks of territory. The Cloud Cobras and Diamond Sharks come to mind, specifically, but I think there were trades for escorts with the Snow Ravens, too.

[cmerwin]

Someone else may have the numbers on hand, but I recall that in several instances, the Cats lost tacit Trials against some friendlier Clans, who then took wholesale control of big chunks of territory. The Cloud Cobras and Diamond Sharks come to mind, specifically, but I think there were trades for escorts with the Snow Ravens, too.

Yeah, I definitely remember that our old allies the Diamond Sharks helped out, and your mention of the Snow Ravens rings a bell too (I think they got some of our naval assets in return, quiaff?).


But on further reflection, it makes me think that the Cats must have suffered incredibly under the Great Refusal. We supported the Not-Named Clan (bad kitties!), approved of Kahn Phelan Ward (and by extension the Wolves-in-Exile), and Khan Leroux spoke out eloquently of the moral duty to rejoin the Star League.


My guess is that Cat cities must have been glassed (maybe not directly nuked like the Wolverines, but orbitaly bombarded) by hardliners (like the Falcons). The reaction against the Nova Cats, except by friend like the Diamond Sharks, Snow Ravens, and Cloud Cobras, must have been extreme.

I have no doubt that Leroux, Carns, and Winters (and West) were prepping for the departure to the IS in the years before the Abjuration, but the backlash must have been intense!

[parable]

First and foremost, thanks @cmerwin for the thoughts on the headpiece.  Second off, though, the beginning of Path of Glory does show how Nova Cat warriors were attempting to prevent the wholesale slaughter of their civilian castes.  It's interesting because even the Not-Named-Clan--Annihilated as it was--had its civilians sterilized and folded into all the other clans, whereas the books and sarna both state that millions of Nova Cat civilians had to be left behind and were all killed.

It's actually, now that I'm thinking about it, an interesting parallel.  The clans invade, do damage, get hoist by their own petard at Tukayyid, and so the IS goes and inflicts the closest thing they can do to Clan judgment on a clan (but the Smoke Jaguars were the worst, so y'know).  But then the Clans feel slighted and savage the Nova Cats, to take out their own frustrations about Operation REVIVAL.  At least, that's how I see it.  It's still a shocking waste of materiel to slaughter millions of civilians wholesale and abandon zellbrigen, but their pride was gravely wounded.

Finally, responding to @cmerwin's previous post re: Nova Cat society and population?  While the main character is a hardass with PTSD, what we see of the Clan-in-the-IS in Path of Glory, one gets the impression that unlike the Jade Falcons' sweeping architecture or the Ghost Bears' Great Works, Nova Cats are very deliberately austere.  Canonically, they have no combat medals or awards, they seem to be tolerant of the Freeborn (though it may be because they were recently genocided), and they generally eschew overly-stylized Totem mechs.  This might also explain why their worlds and factories were so easily repurposed.

Just a few thoughts.

Post Script edit:

I recall that in several instances, the Cats lost tacit Trials against some friendlier Clans

They did this to move into the Irece prefecture, losing a series of pitched 'trials' against the Dracs so they could be taken as abtakha without any loss of life or honor on either side.  IIRC, there was some kind of sportsball game that the Nova Cats lost, and one that was decided by a coin toss wherein the Nova Cat called 'edge' while it was in the air.  Definitely outside the intention of Clan law, but our visions do guide us to strange places.

[Dragon Cat]

Yeah, I definitely remember that our old allies the Diamond Sharks helped out, and your mention of the Snow Ravens rings a bell too (I think they got some of our naval assets in return, quiaff?).


But on further reflection, it makes me think that the Cats must have suffered incredibly under the Great Refusal. We supported the Not-Named Clan (bad kitties!), approved of Kahn Phelan Ward (and by extension the Wolves-in-Exile), and Khan Leroux spoke out eloquently of the moral duty to rejoin the Star League.


My guess is that Cat cities must have been glassed (maybe not directly nuked like the Wolverines, but orbitaly bombarded) by hardliners (like the Falcons). The reaction against the Nova Cats, except by friend like the Diamond Sharks, Snow Ravens, and Cloud Cobras, must have been extreme.

I have no doubt that Leroux, Carns, and Winters (and West) were prepping for the departure to the IS in the years before the Abjuration, but the backlash must have been intense!

Nah its the Clan way for settlements to change hands

The Nova Cat warriors were given honour trials by the Nova Cats allies some absorbed in the process other Clans like the Falcons and Horses annihilated the warriors but the civies they just changed ruler its the Clan way.  Warriors pay the price civilians, infrastructure and production just change hands

If anyone used orbital bombardment on civies in the Homeworlds there would have been hell to pay regardless of what the Nova Cats did

Only during the Wars of Reaving did these rules get broken and a more total war approach was taken

[cmerwin]

Nah its the Clan way for settlements to change hands

The Nova Cat warriors were given honour trials by the Nova Cats allies some absorbed in the process other Clans like the Falcons and Horses annihilated the warriors but the civies they just changed ruler its the Clan way.  Warriors pay the price civilians, infrastructure and production just change hands

If anyone used orbital bombardment on civies in the Homeworlds there would have been hell to pay regardless of what the Nova Cats did

Only during the Wars of Reaving did these rules get broken and a more total war approach was taken

I would normally agree, but the statement from Oathmaster Winters, and in some of the novels, seems to imply that Nova Cat civilian castes were targeted as well. This seemed to be treated as somewhere between an Abjuration and Annihilation. The Nova Cat loses, among ALL castes seemed to have been substantial.

[cmerwin]

First and foremost, thanks @cmerwin for the thoughts on the headpiece.  Second off, though, the beginning of Path of Glory does show how Nova Cat warriors were attempting to prevent the wholesale slaughter of their civilian castes.  It's interesting because even the Not-Named-Clan--Annihilated as it was--had its civilians sterilized and folded into all the other clans, whereas the books and sarna both state that millions of Nova Cat civilians had to be left behind and were all killed.

It's actually, now that I'm thinking about it, an interesting parallel.  The clans invade, do damage, get hoist by their own petard at Tukayyid, and so the IS goes and inflicts the closest thing they can do to Clan judgment on a clan (but the Smoke Jaguars were the worst, so y'know).  But then the Clans feel slighted and savage the Nova Cats, to take out their own frustrations about Operation REVIVAL.  At least, that's how I see it.  It's still a shocking waste of materiel to slaughter millions of civilians wholesale and abandon zellbrigen, but their pride was gravely wounded.

Finally, responding to @cmerwin's previous post re: Nova Cat society and population?  While the main character is a hardass with PTSD, what we see of the Clan-in-the-IS in Path of Glory, one gets the impression that unlike the Jade Falcons' sweeping architecture or the Ghost Bears' Great Works, Nova Cats are very deliberately austere.  Canonically, they have no combat medals or awards, they seem to be tolerant of the Freeborn (though it may be because they were recently genocided), and they generally eschew overly-stylized Totem mechs.  This might also explain why their worlds and factories were so easily repurposed.

Just a few thoughts.

Post Script edit: They did this to move into the Irece prefecture, losing a series of pitched 'trials' against the Dracs so they could be taken as abtakha without any loss of life or honor on either side.  IIRC, there was some kind of sportsball game that the Nova Cats lost, and one that was decided by a coin toss wherein the Nova Cat called 'edge' while it was in the air.  Definitely outside the intention of Clan law, but our visions do guide us to strange places.

I think your analysis is spot on! The Cats were always "different", and for them to 1) switch from being Crusader to Warden (insulting!), and 2) *defect* to the false Star League, was just too much for the traumatized post-Tukayyid clans. In some ways, this is worse than the feckless charge of "genocide" charged to ilKhan Kerensky, this is betrayal to the enemy (at least from a Crusader standpoint)!

The other Clans who knew the Cats, understood them, respected them (and our odd, but profitable, ways), understood this wasn't the case, and maybe (?) even envied us for our decision, helped give us the slip into the IS. But it still cost the lives of millions of Nova Cats, from all castes.


P.S. Also, if I am not mistaken, WIE had already pulled all of their assets into the IS, so the angry "betrayed" clans couldn't lash out at them, which must have been doubly frustrating. Wolves had always been untrustworthy, but here were the Cats, duplicitously switching sides. Dezgra! They - and their civilians - deserve everything they get!

[Dragon Cat]

I would normally agree, but the statement from Oathmaster Winters, and in some of the novels, seems to imply that Nova Cat civilian castes were targeted as well. This seemed to be treated as somewhere between an Abjuration and Annihilation. The Nova Cat loses, among ALL castes seemed to have been substantial.

Possible but not orbital, instead you're looking at the down and dirty version up close and personal

[cmerwin]

Possible but not orbital, instead you're looking at the down and dirty version up close and personal

Fair, and I hear you. My thinking of orbital bombardment was that the Cats had roughly a week to leave the Homeworlds. Somehow the thought of killing millions of civilians in the up close and dirty way seems even worse.

[parable]

My understanding of the Abjuration is that they were given a month or three to evacuate their holdings, but a few clans struck about a week into that process, leading any other clan who wanted to kill some Nova Cats to join the fray early as well.  I would estimate that the bulk of the homeworld Nova Cats had either fled or been killed by week 3.  Ironically, the other clans' desire to be the first to effectively Annihilate the homeworld Nova Cats slowed their progress considerably with infighting to delay each others' progress, which is how I assume we were able to cede large amounts of Nova Cat space to the Diamond Sharks (and I think some to the Snow Ravens).  I would imagine that whatever civilians survived to be taken as isorla by our allies were very quietly distributed through their holdings, so as not to arouse too much suspicion from the other clans.

[Metallgewitter]

My understanding of the Abjuration is that they were given a month or three to evacuate their holdings, but a few clans struck about a week into that process, leading any other clan who wanted to kill some Nova Cats to join the fray early as well.  I would estimate that the bulk of the homeworld Nova Cats had either fled or been killed by week 3.  Ironically, the other clans' desire to be the first to effectively Annihilate the homeworld Nova Cats slowed their progress considerably with infighting to delay each others' progress, which is how I assume we were able to cede large amounts of Nova Cat space to the Diamond Sharks (and I think some to the Snow Ravens).  I would imagine that whatever civilians survived to be taken as isorla by our allies were very quietly distributed through their holdings, so as not to arouse too much suspicion from the other clans.

There is also a note in one of the Clan Phoenix Mechs that at one battle the Nova Cats took some Cloud Cobra warriors as bondsmen and that opened the door for negotiation which left a Nova Cat enclave (plus it's industries and civilians) in the hands of the Cobras (and by extension the Adders). Though that was only a one time thing otherwise most Clans attacked without much mercy. Though at soem cost (for example the Adders lost one of their warships)

[cmerwin]

There is also a note in one of the Clan Phoenix Mechs that at one battle the Nova Cats took some Cloud Cobra warriors as bondsmen and that opened the door for negotiation which left a Nova Cat enclave (plus it's industries and civilians) in the hands of the Cobras (and by extension the Adders). Though that was only a one time thing otherwise most Clans attacked without much mercy. Though at soem cost (for example the Adders lost one of their warships)

That tracks, and makes sense in terms of Clans that the Cats were close to, and the Cats definitely lost a lot of our touman defending our lower castes.


I guess I would be curious to think about the Cats demographics. How many did we have? How many did we take with us? My guess is that the lower end of the Cat population - being *really* conservative - among all Cat owned areas, would be 5 million. Realistically, we probably had closer to 20-30 million among all non-Warrior castes.


That's still a lot of peeps.


Probably a few million of whom actually made it to the Inner Sphere, the rest either killed or folded into other Clans.

[Istal_Devalis]

Really hard to say. We didnt get that much information on the Home clans, and once we did the NCs were already on the way out.

[cmerwin]

Really hard to say. We didnt get that much information on the Home clans, and once we did the NCs were already on the way out.

Yeah, the closest I think we can get is just guestimating some of the numbers listed in Warriors of Kerensky, since they give a few percentages of the Cats' loses by planet, and compare it to both Paths of Glory and some of the population estimates given in the table from WoK (p. 34).

I guess I had just never really thought about the cost of the Abjuration in sheer numbers. Even given slightly longer than a month (and absorption by friendly Clans), the death toll must have been incredible, easily in the millions. Sure, not to bemoan the loss of most of our front line Galaxies who gave their lives so the civilians could evacuate, the civilian death toll is still cataclysmic - to the point that I can't think of a comparable event that would have killed so many in such a short time in our current timeline.

[cmerwin]

A bit more scandalous than I envisioned, but I'm game (bear in mind I'm lowkey taking notes for a cosplay). 

Also, for the love of all that's sacred and the Ways of Seeing, *please* post some pictures of your cosplay once done! Super stoked!

[parable]

Also, for the love of all that's sacred and the Ways of Seeing, *please* post some pictures of your cosplay once done! Super stoked!

 

This is the post that convinced me to pull the trigger on doing it soon.  It might take a few months (life happens, after all, and leather clothing is expensive), but I will make sure to post it, and definitely notify this board.  Thanks for the support, trothkin.

[cmerwin]

 

This is the post that convinced me to pull the trigger on doing it soon.  It might take a few months (life happens, after all, and leather clothing is expensive), but I will make sure to post it, and definitely notify this board.  Thanks for the support, trothkin.

Seyla!

[parable]

How many did we have? How many did we take with us? My guess is that the lower end of the Cat population - being *really* conservative - among all Cat owned areas, would be 5 million. Realistically, we probably had closer to 20-30 million among all non-Warrior castes.

I'd go with a lower number on population based on the fact that we're a Clan--internal attrition and planned breeding are givens--20-ish million.  The Nova Cats had, I think, moved into the IS earlier and more readily than other clans, so that tilts the numbers.  In the end, my estimate is about 2-3 million Nova Cats dead out of 6-8 million that attempted to flee.  I know it's part of the setting but these numbers are astoundingly low for a multiple planet conquest party.

[cmerwin]

In the end, my estimate is about 2-3 million Nova Cats dead out of 6-8 million that attempted to flee.  I know it's part of the setting but these numbers are astoundingly low for a multiple planet conquest party.

Agreed and I think that sounds right. I suspect that our Scientist and Merchant castes were relatively large (given our encouragement of them), but I still think that you are right and it puts us in the 20 million range. I suspect that the number of dead may have been higher though. My guess is that on planets we shared with Jags and JF, they simply killed our population - defective, traitorous genes, and all that. The rest on other planets or areas were either sterilized (IH, GB, CC ??) or - mercifully - folded into Diamond Shark populations.  But I strongly suspect you are right. I think we had secretly been moving assets into the IS, prior to the Great Refusal, anticipating what would happen.


I agree that the numbers are astoundingly low in some ways, but they are also astoundingly high in others. Somewhere between 3-5 million dead in less than 3 months. That's Turtle Bay (larger, actually) magnitude of civilian deaths.


As a proud Nova Cat (and former military officer myself), I will never forget the aid of the Sharks (and Ravens) in protecting our civilians, nor the cowardly barbarity of the Jags and Falcons, and any other Clan, in slaughtering them.

[Rncavenger]

I think the Jaguars had nothing to do with the genocide of Nova Cats. Because the Nova Cats were just helping the remnants of the Jaguars to escape at that time.

[tassa_kay]

I think the Jaguars had nothing to do with the genocide of Nova Cats. Because the Nova Cats were just helping the remnants of the Jaguars to escape at that time.

Yeah, the Jaguars were already Annihilated by the time the Nova Cats were Abjured.

[cmerwin]

Yeah, the Jaguars were already Annihilated by the time the Nova Cats were Abjured.

Correct me if I am wrong, both events happened in 3060 - the Annihilation of the Jags and the Abjuration of the Cats. To be fair, I can understand that the Jags weren't in any position to attack the Cats civilian population centers (and so I would be wrong to falsely accuse them), but I thought both sets of events happened in the same year, quiaff?

[tassa_kay]

Correct me if I am wrong, both events happened in 3060 - the Annihilation of the Jags and the Abjuration of the Cats. To be fair, I can understand that the Jags weren't in any position to attack the Cats civilian population centers (and so I would be wrong to falsely accuse them), but I thought both sets of events happened in the same year, quiaff?

They did indeed, but the Cats were Abjured in the wake of the Great Refusal, and by then, the Jaguar Annihilation was already complete.

[parable]

Correct me if I am wrong, both events happened in 3060 - the Annihilation of the Jags and the Abjuration of the Cats. To be fair, I can understand that the Jags weren't in any position to attack the Cats civilian population centers (and so I would be wrong to falsely accuse them), but I thought both sets of events happened in the same year, quiaff?

Yeah, but a year is not a short time.  The Clans did not know that the Nova Cats defected wholesale to the Inner Sphere until the Great Refusal, when we trounced the Ice Hellions and helped Annihilate the Smoke Jaguars.  They held an emergency Great Council meeting, the call to Annihilate us was vetoed but they then voted to Abjure us, and we all know how that ended up.  Basically, a lot of very important things happened all at once, but the Smoke Jaguars would not have been an issue during our fraught and desperate exodus to the Inner Sphere. 

At least, that is my analysis of things.

edit: I am just now working my way thru the Twilight of the Clans series, having only recently read Path of Glory and Impetus of War, so I don't really have deep-dive references for my posts.

[tassa_kay]

No analysis or deep-dive references needed. The Cats weren’t Abjured until after the Great Refusal, and the Jaguars were gone by then.

[parable]

to be fair, I was kind of high when I wrote that response.  Maybe I'd fit better with the Goliath Scorpions.  But yeah, the timeline precludes chimney kitties from getting in on the fun genocide.

[cmerwin]

Anyone happen to have a copy of "Ask the Writers - NCS True Vision and Anna Rosse", quineg?

Sadly, Sarna only has a deadlink for it and sniffing around the interwebs yields nothing. Would love to get a copy!