'Mech of the Week: GN-20* Gùn

[wantec]

not enough free criticals on a Gun to fit a LB 5-X  :-[

There is room for a Clan one :) Or a RAC-2, UAC/2, or a Clan UAC/5. Of course if you're going Clan-tech, the ERLL, LPL, and ERPPC are obvious choices.

For extreme range, there's the Extended LRM 10 and LRM 5.

And for taking advantage of the range brackets the Snubbie is a good choice.

[Spinosapper]

...

Of course I also have images of sending them to the Forest Moon of Endor for some reason...

"Chicken walker"?  Check
Ewok blasting capability?  Check
Extra difficulty in traversing difficult terrain?  Check
Armor protection inadequate versus primitive timber traps?  Check

Lol, it's a perfect fit. 

[JadeHellbringer]

I think some of this is important to keep in mind.

Any body who's looked at/played with the new Ultra-Heavy Proto's (And yes, the fact that they're called ULTRA-Heavy is important) a little will be able to tell you that they make light 'Mechs obsolete. Based upon that idea I recently looked into turning some of the Ultra-light 'Mechs into Proto, that makes even more sense, right? Well in doing so I found something out: It doesn't work, the high speed that the Flea-14 has means that it doesn't work as a Proto, but once you start slowing things do it gets bad for the 'Mechs, which means that the Gun SHOULD turn into a Proto without any problems, and gain some benefits in the process.

Well apart from losing the ability to be an Omni and the ability to lug around BA

Well, that and the whole 'this isn't made by a Clan, it's made by people who don't make or use Protomechs' issue. There's that.

[SCC]

Mixed tech is all the rage these days, salavage has always been the name of the game, and the CapCon are allied (If not in a state of personal union) with the MoC, the IS faction most likely to develop Proto's

[Alexander Knight]

Mixed tech is all the rage these days, salavage has always been the name of the game, and the CapCon are allied (If not in a state of personal union) with the MoC, the IS faction most likely to develop Proto's

Well, aside from the multiple generations of genetic tinkering to create the smaller body type.  And aside from the implants that cause irreversible and inevitable mental degradation after only a few years.

[StCptMara]

I like the concept of the Gun, but have not had a chance to try it out yet. Unfortunately,
the only way I can see a Gun being used effectively is in my own "Kill Team" style units:
Treat infantry and their transport as a single unit. This means your Lance of Guns will also
be carrying a squad of Battle Armor each. Add in two Vehicles to the Lance.  Deploy in trios,
so you have 2 Guns(and their infantry), and a vehicle attacking one point, and the same
going somewhere else. Or you have 3 Guns and their infantry in one place, 2 vehicles, a Gun
and infantry hitting another. (This idea was inspired by a misreading a while back that the
FedCom was fielding 3 'mech strike teams, and was originally created as a response to that
idea WELL before I found out ComStar/WoB used units in increments of 6)

[ANS Kamas P81]

It's a shame the Sea Foxes aren't supplying enough of that beautiful Kingston ERPPC to the Cappies.  Imagine Guns running around with Clan ERPPCs and some LRMs...

I'm also surprised there isn't a Sunder "Samual"-style walking war-crime for the Gun.  A batch of SRMs, small pulse lasers, flamers, maybe some LMGs just for variety.  I mean, it IS an infantry-support unit, and it's true that a hostile infantry unit can ruin its day.

[Maingunnery]

For a Clan version I think that it would need a Plasma Cannon, an cERLL and an Active Probe.

[Diablo48]

I am really liking the look of the Gùn, although I really wish it was 25 tons instead of 20.  The cost does not go up much, but you can nearly double the armor so it can take a hit (although you still want to keep it out of trouble) and you get another ton free to remedy the crippling lack of Flamers, probably by fixing an ER model in the head.

[Scotty]

The 'crippling lack of flamers' is purely by config, not by chassis.  I'd rather have the plasma rifle than any possible configuration of flamers, anyway, considering the whole "five times the effective range" thing.

As an Omni, there's nothing stopping you from loading up a Gun with five modular armors and an array of flamers.

[Diablo48]

The 'crippling lack of flamers' is purely by config, not by chassis.  I'd rather have the plasma rifle than any possible configuration of flamers, anyway, considering the whole "five times the effective range" thing.

As an Omni, there's nothing stopping you from loading up a Gun with five modular armors and an array of flamers.

The Plasma Rifle has ammo, the Flamer/ER Flamer does not.  That is a huge difference in anything bigger than a pickup game where ammo costs start building up and you cannot just light an entire forest on fire to try to direct the enemy where you want them without running out of ammo.  Besides, that was a comment on what to do with the extra free ton you get for upgrading to a 25 ton frame to improve the armor, and I think a flexible anti-infantry weapon is a very good choice on an infantry support 'Mech like this.

[Alexander Knight]

That's a valid point, but in the 3140s, "Anti-Infantry" is increasingly starting to mean "anti-battle armor".

[Diablo48]

That's a valid point, but in the 3140s, "Anti-Infantry" is increasingly starting to mean "anti-battle armor".

Fair enough, although if you are really worried about BA then you should be looking into AE weapons which are conveniently available via artillery, especially for the B.  Going for a new dedicated anti-BA configuration, the cannons would be my first choice if they were not too big for the Gùn, so mortars would be the next logical choice and seem like a good support weapon for this frame all around.  Barring that, you are basically back to shooting them with whatever is on hand because BA mostly take damage like other armored units unlike conventional infantry.

Of course, half the point of having a Flamer is starting fires on a whim and that will still be an important part of infantry support because no infantry of any kind can do that without going through consumables.

[Scotty]

I know I mentioned using Mech Mortars upthread.  You can fit either one MM-4, or two Clan MM-4s, both with three tons of ammunition.

Of course, by the time you start mounting missile munitions with multiple tons of ammunition, I'd just as soon ignore the Flamer in favor of smoke rounds.

[Diablo48]

I know I mentioned using Mech Mortars upthread.  You can fit either one MM-4, or two Clan MM-4s, both with three tons of ammunition.

Yeah, that was what made me think of it.

Of course, by the time you start mounting missile munitions with multiple tons of ammunition, I'd just as soon ignore the Flamer in favor of smoke rounds.

What part of ammo independence is confusing you?  The whole point of the Flamer is that you can show up an hour before the enemy does and have kilometers of roaring inferno ready to greet them when they make it to the battlefield.

[Scotty]

The part of ammo independence that's confusing me is the part where you think the Gun is going to be at any point away from its supplies.  It's a garrison infantry support 'Mech, and if it's more than a few dozen kilometers from a supply zone or a friendly base, you're doing it wrong.

[Maingunnery]

Well if you have time, then you don't need flamers to start fires, other energy weapons can do the job as well (they just take more time).

[Scotty]

The part of ammo independence that's confusing me is the part where you think the Gun is going to be at any point away from its supplies.  It's a garrison infantry support 'Mech, and if it's more than a few dozen kilometers from a supply zone or a friendly base, you're doing it wrong.

I feel like it's bad form to quote myself, but whatever.  This does give me the idea for the "Gun Magazine" that sports the B's Large Laser (or a PPC, or even a pair of LPPCs, or even one) to fit in a 3-7 ton cargo bay.  Three tons would give you enough for at least a few days in the field with an infantry or battle armor platoon.  It'd even be a pretty fantastic training 'Mech, with the moderate speed, "dialed down" PPC, and ability to stay in the field for weeks with those cargo bays.

[Maingunnery]

I feel like it's bad form to quote myself, but whatever.  This does give me the idea for the "Gun Magazine" that sports the B's Large Laser (or a PPC, or even a pair of LPPCs, or even one) to fit in a 3-7 ton cargo bay.  Three tons would give you enough for at least a few days in the field with an infantry or battle armor platoon.  It'd even be a pretty fantastic training 'Mech, with the moderate speed, "dialed down" PPC, and ability to stay in the field for weeks with those cargo bays.

So a supply config..... I would go for an ERPPC combined with a 2.5 ton cargo bay, which is then also protected with CASE so that the Mechwarrior can carry ammo inside without worry.

[Diablo48]

The part of ammo independence that's confusing me is the part where you think the Gun is going to be at any point away from its supplies.  It's a garrison infantry support 'Mech, and if it's more than a few dozen kilometers from a supply zone or a friendly base, you're doing it wrong.

Right, because you always have time to make dozens of trips to the supply dump which also never gets overrun, raided, or runs out of supplies.

I feel like it's bad form to quote myself, but whatever.  This does give me the idea for the "Gun Magazine" that sports the B's Large Laser (or a PPC, or even a pair of LPPCs, or even one) to fit in a 3-7 ton cargo bay.  Three tons would give you enough for at least a few days in the field with an infantry or battle armor platoon.  It'd even be a pretty fantastic training 'Mech, with the moderate speed, "dialed down" PPC, and ability to stay in the field for weeks with those cargo bays.

You could do something like that in a pinch, but you would really be better off with dedicated supply vehicles.  Besides, you can probably find civilian equipment to commandeer and let the 'Mech use its pod space for guns so I cannot see this kind of conversion being necessary very often.

So a supply config..... I would go for an ERPPC combined with a 2.5 ton cargo bay, which is then also protected with CASE so that the Mechwarrior can carry ammo inside without worry.

Actually, that makes me wonder.  Does ammunition in a cargo bay explode?  I feel like it should, but I am not certain how the rules for that work.

[SCC]

One other problem with the array of flamers that people are arguing for is that it doesn't work to well, to get maximum use out of all those flamers you're likely going to need to target either multiple infantry platoons at once, or multiple 'Mechs, neither of which are a good idea.

There's also the range factor, the Wasp WSP-1W mounted a bunch of SL's way back in the day, but it had the mobility to act as a backstabber (6/9/6) and in general ranges were shorter back then, 3/6/9 was the norm for some reason

[Orin J.]

design-wise, i hate everything about this 'mech. every edge is beveled off for some reason, a big vulnerable canopy that's walled off on nearly all sides so you can't see anything out of it, a waist joint that would fail if anything struck anywhere near it because someone wanted to make sure you saw where the waist was......i could go on for a long time.

it does, however provide you with a passable battle armor taxi. i'm just going to not look at it, i'm used to capellan designs being eyesores.

[YingJanshi]

design-wise, i hate everything about this 'mech. every edge is beveled off for some reason, a big vulnerable canopy that's walled off on nearly all sides so you can't see anything out of it, a waist joint that would fail if anything struck anywhere near it because someone wanted to make sure you saw where the waist was......i could go on for a long time.

it does, however provide you with a passable battle armor taxi. i'm just going to not look at it, i'm used to capellan designs being eyesores.

Personally I think it's an awesome looking design. Functional, yet somehow menacing. (Then again Alex I. is my favorite among the current artists.)

[Grantwhy]

I'm also surprised there isn't a Sunder "Samual"-style walking war-crime for the Gun.  A batch of SRMs, small pulse lasers, flamers, maybe some LMGs just for variety.  I mean, it IS an infantry-support unit, and it's true that a hostile infantry unit can ruin its day.

The problem (for the Gun) is if it is using SPLs, MGs or Flamers on Infantry/Battle Armor, then it is probably close enough for the PBI/BA to shoot back.  Even SRM's might not have the range to stay far enough away to avoid return fire.

There is a difference between 'infantry support unit' and 'anti-infantry unit' and the Gun seems designed - in all three configs - to stay at a distance (out of range of return fire or behind friendly units?) and shoot.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Somehow I doubt that all of the infantry that Guns get sent against are going to be armed.  Just saying.

[StCptMara]

Somehow I doubt that all of the infantry that Guns get sent against are going to be armed.  Just saying.

But remember: enough knives and baseball bats can damage a 'mech, and if they get in the same hex, it
cannot shoot them..

[ANS Kamas P81]

Good thing the Gun can outrun any meatsack infantry, then.  And yes I know about the knives-and-clubs; a group of 28 Capellan nobles using carbon-reinforced fingernails can do precisely one point of 'Mech damage (28*.03, round up) which can be dangerous considering the TAC possibility.  The mental image of a hundred or so psychotic Capellan nobles charging into battle with their pinkie fingers raised may be insane but it is possible, so it might be best to have something to reduce their number slightly first.  Even if it is short-ranged.

[JadeHellbringer]

"A-pods are the order of the day, gentlemen. Let's go step on Lo Pan for a few hours."

[Diablo48]

One other problem with the array of flamers that people are arguing for is that it doesn't work to well, to get maximum use out of all those flamers you're likely going to need to target either multiple infantry platoons at once, or multiple 'Mechs, neither of which are a good idea.

There's also the range factor, the Wasp WSP-1W mounted a bunch of SL's way back in the day, but it had the mobility to act as a backstabber (6/9/6) and in general ranges were shorter back then, 3/6/9 was the norm for some reason

Where did this come from?  I was suggesting one Flamer or ER Flamer to give it a way to help out against hostile infantry and to create firebreaks to check the advance of hostile conventional forces in a pinch, not trying to wade into a pile of infantry in a thin skinned design like this.

[Banzai]

Love the art.  However, having fought against it a few times, it lacks.  It punches outside its weight, but it it is too slow with too little armor, and there are better options for a anti-squishy infantry units.   But I think the Mech Mortar version bandied about here would have some definite possibilities for evilness.