Author Topic: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy  (Read 15453 times)

Getz

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Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« on: 29 March 2016, 05:49:59 »

Has anyone noticed how the Word of Blake was really into symbolism?  Really unsubtle, self-congratulatory symbolism…  So when Precentor Martial Cameron St Jamais called for an advanced new mech design that both looked to the future and recalled the glory of the Star League, is it any wonder they called it the Legacy?

The war machine Skobel Mechworks produced in answer to this call was modelled off one of their Star League era designs called the Rising Star.  The Rising Star was produced in small numbers but was wholly discontinued because it had a defective targeting system – which seems a bit draconian compared to just replacing the faulty components, but hey, what do I know about 28th century economics?  Whilst we don’t have an official record sheet for this enigmatic precursor, TRO 3067 does give us some strong clues about what it was like.  Firstly we know that it had the same movement profile and armour as the Legacy because the Blakist mech is explicitly mentioned as retaining those features from the earlier design.  We also know it had a pair of standard class 10 autocannons which, if we assume succession war technology, would give us enough weight to back that up with a suit of lasers and missiles laid out in the same way as the LGC-01, but beyond that it’s all speculation.  In any case, it’s a shame the Rising Star was lost to history because it sounds like would have made a nice alternative to the Awesome or Stalker as a mid-line Assault mech during the Succession wars.

For all the fact that the Word of Blake design that debuted in 3064 appears to be little more than a modernised Star League reject, you should not underestimate the Legacy.  I’ve used them and faced them and found them to be very potent mechs, so let’s peel back their skin and see why.

Starting with the guts of the mech, the Legacy is built on an endo-steel chassis and the initial variants used a 240 rated standard fusion engine.  The top speed of 54 kph is slow for an eighty ton assault mech, but as the Awesome has been demonstrating for four hundred years that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.  Later variants try out light and compact engines, but in theory all Legacies can loose a side torso and keep on fighting – ideally not the left torso, however, because that’s where the C3i computer is always fitted.  Another common feature is jump jets, almost always mounted in the legs and centre torso, so the Legacy is a manoeuvrable mech even when it is not a fast one.

The Legacy has a very durable carapace with the maximum fifteen and a half tons of armour installed.  That said, the rear armour could probably stand to be a bit thicker – the rear side torsos can be penetrated by common weapons like large lasers and as most variants store a fair amount of ammo in their torsos that’s somewhere you really don’t want to be taking critical hits, even when both torsos have CASE protection.  This is not a deal breaker by any means, but it’s just something you need to keep in mind. The rear centre torso location is less of a problem as it can at least shrug off a PPC or a couple of medium lasers – although that will still leave your internals exposed to any follow up strikes.  Of course, when you have maximum armour the upside to weak rear protection is a stronger frontal aspect, so if you avoid mixing it up too much, have a friend guard your back (C3 helps with this) and keep your face towards the enemy you can expect your shiny white murder machine to take a bit of a kicking and keep on ticking.

The core of the LGC-01s firepower comes from a pair of Mydron Excel class ten Ultra-cannons, each supplied with two tons of ammunition.  Assuming lady luck is on your side, this can put a tremendous amount of hurt upon the enemy for a relatively modest heat output, but you can also burn though your ammo at an ungodly rate.  This is reinforced by a pair of Diverse Optics ER medium lasers in the right arm, an ER Small laser in the left and a Guided Technologies Streak SRM 4 rack supplied with a single ton of munitions buried in the right torso.  However, the chassis has only its basic ten double heat sinks to cover all these weapons, which is woefully inadequate.  If you double tap both autocannons, you don’t have enough reserve capacity to fire even one of your ER medium lasers.  You can get away with firing both lasers on the move if you restrict yourself to single shots and you might risk the missiles assuming they’ll only hit half the time, but that’s wasting the potential of the autocannons.  Seeing as there is only just enough ammo to last for an average engagement my preferred approach is just to hammer away with the autocannons at maximum rate until the ammo is run down to the last ton or so, then move in to short range and use the laser and missile battery supported by one or two autocannons when the target numbers look good.  There’s obviously a risk of jamming a gun early doing this, but seeing as you probably going to be restricted to single shot fire after the merge anyway I don’t think it’s something worth worrying about.

A relatively straightforward modification, the LGC-02 replaces the 01’s Ultra 10 autocannons with a pair of LRM 20s giving you a bit more reach and nominally the same firepower at the cost of damage concentration.  Each launcher gets three tons of ammo in the corresponding torso, so now you can last though a typical battle without too much difficulty.  A pair of medium pulse lasers has also been included to cover the LRMs minimum range, but there are no additional heat sinks so whilst you'll be fine providing long ranged support, this Legacy will still get uncomfortably hot during sustained short ranged combat.  Perhaps unsurprisingly the LGC-02 works well when networked with the 01.

The LGC-03 takes the idea behind the 01 and overhauls it with some new tech.  Upgrading the engine to a 320 rated light fusion unit gives you a valuable increase in speed to 64 kph although the jump range remains unaltered.  This time the Ultra ACs have been replaced with the head-chopping fury of dual Heavy PPCs.  Whilst your peak damage output has dropped somewhat, your average damage is slightly higher and you gain the advantage of damage concentration.  The secondary weaponry remains unchanged from the 01.  Unfortunately, however, the heat exchange system has not been upgraded sufficiently to keep up.  Even if you stand still, letting rip with both peepers will cause your heat gauge to tremble - doing the same while jumping will inflict a movement penalty on you next turn.  Trying to use the short ranged armament at the same will quickly send your heat scale spiralling in the dangerous zone where you have to worry about shutdowns and ammo explosions.  For all the fact that is probably the most potent Legacy variant, this predator is definitely an obligate bracket firer…

Clearly deciding that the 03 variant wasn’t fast enough, the LGC-04 takes it’s chassis and fits MASC giving an 84 kph top speed, but it gives up a great deal to do so.  The armour is now light ferro-fibrous and a compact gyro is required to make enough room for all those space hungry components.  The armament has also been heavily revised with the Heavy PPCs replaced by a pair of their Snub-nosed brethren with everything else removed in favour of a pair of claws.  Snubbies are fine weapons, but I have already opined elsewhere that they don’t do much for C3 equipped mechs – if you try to exploit the 270 metre short range, nothing else in your force will thank you greatly for the targeting data and if one of your team mates spots for you so you can fire from medium or long range, you suffer a damage drop that means you would probably have been better off with a humble large laser.  On the other hand, you won’t find me complaining about the claws – two chances to punch an enemy’s head clean off in one turn is well worth the small penalty to hit.  This is a design that would probably do better with a pair of Large Pulse Lasers to make it’s in-your-face style even more threatening, but that would cost you it’s two extra heat sinks and the LGC-04 is the only Legacy that runs cool.  In fact you can perform jumping alpha strikes all day without so much as a murmur on the heat scale which, combined with the claws, makes me feel it would be much more at home in the arenas of Solaris.

The final variant uses a compact engine and gyro, meaning it has to revert to the original ground speed and can only jump sixty meters.  However thanks to all this space saving equipment and sensible critical padding the LGC-05 is impressively difficult to take down.  The armament consists of an Artemis equipped MML 7 in each torso whilst each arm sports a Light PPC and Medium VSPL.  There’s a slightly superfluous ER small laser in the head and the two tons of missile ammo are concentrated in a single CASE protected bin in the right torso, representing the mech's only real weak spot.  The weaponry of the 05 is – problematic.  The outright firepower is mediocre for a 80 ton mech, none of the range increments really line up nicely and there are some points of overlap where it’s tempting to alpha strike (150 metres, for example) but having only thirteen double heat sinks means heat is still a major problem if you tape down the firing buttons.  On the other hand, you can almost always fire at least four of your six main weapons, so it’s really a case of using whatever is most suitable for your range brackets, at least until the missile munitions run out.  Certainly the zombie vibe and the fact that the VSPLs and the MMLs both do the most damage at short range means this variant likes to brawl, so it makes sense using it as the point man of an assault weight C3i Level II, but you still need to be careful about that pesky rear armour.

In summary, no matter what flavour of Legacy you favour, you’re getting something tough and maneuverable.  Most of them fight best at short and medium ranges and run a bit hot, with only the LGC-02 having a really potent at long range punch. 

Of course, the real trick is deciding what role within your C3i level II the Legacy should be performing.  Although only the LGC-02 has properly long ranged battery, being part of a network can enable a Legacy to stand off and joust against weapons with ostensibly advantageous range increments on equal or superior terms.  Seeing as most LGC variants only really have the heat sinks to cover their long ranged guns consistently and their rear armour isn’t great, this really puts you in the position of a mid ranged slugger - laying down hard hits with C3i support while something smaller and faster delivers the finishing blow.  The exception, of course, is the LGC-04.  The 04 really, really wants to close with the enemy and is fast enough to do so with some reliability so it makes a good spotter for a heavy or assault Level II – however, have a care as it’s not as tough as it might at first seem.  Despite being the only Legacy without any ammo, getting in your opponents face invites backstabbing and any critical damage that slips past the armour will damage something important.

Overall, I find the Legacy wants something quick within its network as early short ranged targeting data can make up for its typical lack of speed - the Gurkha is a good team mate as it can spot for you and then try to find the big holes in you’ve blown in your target’s armour with that cluster of small lasers it carries around.  C3i equipped Buccaneers and Lightrays can perform the same role if you want something a bit bigger and tougher.  Within its own weight class, a Legacy will certainly enjoy the company of the C3i equipped versions of the Thug and Crockett, which provide complementary capabilities on a similarly durable chassis.

As a design exclusive to the Word of Blake, I think it’s fair to assume the Legacy became extinct with the end of the Jihad - which kind of makes me sad.  It’s a seriously badass looking mech (especially on the cover of TRO 3067r) with some really good variants so it’s a shame that such a cool design should pass into history without leaving much of a….

Well, you get the idea…
« Last Edit: 09 February 2018, 20:07:09 by Getz »

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #1 on: 29 March 2016, 06:06:31 »
Nice article, nice Mech. My WOB Opfors inevitably have an LGC-01 somewheres and I can attest to the power of those dual UAC10s.

Cover of TRO 3067 features a Sagittaire, its Combat Ops that has a Legacy firing an energy weapon (LGC-03?)

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #2 on: 29 March 2016, 06:59:32 »
Quote
It’s a seriously badass looking mech

Hell yeah it is! Aesthetically speaking, one of my favorite 'Mechs in the game by far. I always hunt for any excuse to field one whenever I play WoB.
Great write-up, will post more later. Not a lot of time to post right now, but the conspiracy-minded of you out there should probably get a chuckle or two out of the -WVR subdesignation of the LGC-04.

Cover of TRO 3067 features a Sagittaire, its Combat Ops that has a Legacy firing an energy weapon (LGC-03?)

Check out the reprint's cover:



And while we're at it, take a look at this amazing piece of work:

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Maelwys

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #3 on: 29 March 2016, 08:09:31 »
The revised-CGL version of TR3067 has the Legacy on the cover.

Its a nice design. Whenever I've used it, its been a solid performer. Maybe not as optimized as some designs out there, but definitely something you can build a force around. Most of the variants serve as a really good middle man for a Level II. Not one of the long-long-range fighters like the Vanquisher, but something that can sit in the middle and shelter the long-range hitters from fast movers that are trying to get to your heavy hitters.

The 02 is nice to sit back with your heavy hitters, and has enough ammo that you can use specialty ammo. Nothing says a bad day for lighter designs trying to cut off your heavies with ECM like running into Thunder Augmented minefields or Semi-Guided LRMs.

The 03 is just like the 01 really, trading off the reduced chance for ammo explosions with the added vulnerability of the LFE. It also highlights a big issue with slower 'Mechs and their smaller engines. You'd actually save tonnage if you kept it 3/5 with a standard engine (11.5 tons compared to 17 tons of the 320 LFE). But at a 240 rating, the engine can only hold 9 heat sinks, so anything past that and you have to find critical slots for them, and the Legacy just doesn't have room for it unless you ditch the Endo Steel. Which would admittedly possibly make for a better design, but might have been beyond what was allowed for the design.

The 04 is just odd. I mean, snub-nose PPCs on a variant that wants to get in close and hit you hard with the Claws. Right. Makes sense. But oh man. Where does this come from? I also can't help but think there's a double joke here..not only is it a "WolVeRine" because its got 2 claws, but could it also be a tongue-in-cheek joke about the rumored Wolverine connections? I mean, consider it if the first time you saw the "-WVR" designation on a RAT or something. "Oh my god, the WoB has a Wolverine 'Mech! Its all true!"

Not sure how I feel about MASC instead of TSM. Its a cool running design for the most part, so you'd have to work to activate the TSM (or fiddle with turning off heat sinks), and the Claws do let you one punch kill 'Mechs, so its not like the TSM is needed as much.

The 05 is...interesting? The long range damage is actually pretty similar to the 02. Twin MML7's with Artemis are going to put out 6 damage each, with the LPPCs another 5 each, for 22 compared to the 24 for the 02. The downside really is only 2 tons of ammo, and spending 2 tons on Artemis means you're not likely going to want to be using non-Artemis IV ammo.

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #4 on: 29 March 2016, 08:12:52 »
WVR? Wyvern? Wolverine? (I presume the latter, thanks to the claws.)

I wonder if we'll ever get the Rising Star. (I made my own to customs forum.)

Overall, the Legacy (at least the first two models) seem pretty good. The thin back armor is a concern but between the jump jets and C3i network it will be difficult for backstabbers to exploit this.
2 tons per UAC is a bit low ammo (10 turns max with double shots) but C3i network should allow for accurate shots so perhaps the ammo amount works here. Plus it does reduce the risk of an ammo explosion, and damage if such occurs.
Hot running perhaps but anyone used to IntroTech machines should be at home here. Push the curve a bit to finish off your enemy faster.

Most certainly a 'Mech i would wield if i'd play with WoB.

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #5 on: 29 March 2016, 08:43:15 »
Maybe the Rising Star didn't have as many problems with heat: The Legacy has a C3i computer which didn't exist back then. So since we know the armor wasn't increased, it makes sense that the 2.5 tons the C3i requires was probably filled with extra heat sinks.
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #6 on: 29 March 2016, 09:00:03 »
Seems unlikely. If it had double heat sinks, lack of ER lasers means it would not have any issues with mere 10 DHS. Of course, not having UAC/10s is another reason for lower heat-output.
If the 'Mech had electronics, i'd assume a BAP or GECM.

Maelwys

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #7 on: 29 March 2016, 09:07:44 »
Not to mention the tonnage you get back from replacing the UACs with standard AC10s. The critical slot issue is probably going to remain the big issue.

Under AlphaStrike, the various Legacies are pretty similar. The 03 and 04 take a hit on structure, while the 05's structure value shoots all the way up to 8, matching its armor. And it doesn't lose much in the way of damage, having similar values to all the others. The 04 obviously is the loser on damage, though it gains the MEL and ENE values of course.

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #8 on: 29 March 2016, 09:17:01 »
Despite never really being that much of a Blakist player, I've always loved the Legacy. My greatest hope is that the design is not truly extinct, but lives on through samples located in that cache of Blakist gear found by Clan Goliath Scorpion just before founding their Imperio. Wether upgraded with Clan tech, or downgraded to use local supplies, it would be interesting to see what is done with any chasses they possess.
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Getz

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #9 on: 29 March 2016, 09:19:59 »
Seems unlikely. If it had double heat sinks, lack of ER lasers means it would not have any issues with mere 10 DHS. Of course, not having UAC/10s is another reason for lower heat-output.
If the 'Mech had electronics, i'd assume a BAP or GECM.

Whilst I didn't want to delve too deeply into the Rising Star design, you can essentially do an Intro-tech LGC-01 quite easily.  The weight saved by downgrading the Autocannons and losing the C3i and CASE more than makes up for using standard structure.  My best guess has an SRM6 and three medium lasers replacing the secondary weapons, and an extra (single) heat sink using up the left over tonnage.

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #10 on: 29 March 2016, 11:30:03 »
I'm curious why Blakist didn't slap on one their favorite weapons, Light Gauss Rifle, on to this guy.  Beat heck of a sniper firing twin LGR at people at range, then having more energy weapon lay out closing in.  (i don't have MekLab or SSK in front me to play with possiblities).   Missiles fire support makese some sense, but not to extent.  Twin regular Gauss Rifles would been nasty too.
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #11 on: 29 March 2016, 11:56:13 »
I'm curious why Blakist didn't slap on one their favorite weapons, Light Gauss Rifle, on to this guy.  Beat heck of a sniper firing twin LGR at people at range, then having more energy weapon lay out closing in.  (i don't have MekLab or SSK in front me to play with possiblities).   Missiles fire support makese some sense, but not to extent.  Twin regular Gauss Rifles would been nasty too.

In the LGR's case, it may be simply that the need wasn't there thanks to the Vanquisher. Where the Legacy could pack a couple of those rifles, no doubt, the Vanq adds in the large lasers as well, while only being a notch slower (and of course no jump jets). More expensive, but the Word by this point wasn't really watching their wallets all that close, it seems. ;)

The standard Gauss would be tough to make work with the weight... possible, of course. I'm torn between there already being a glut of dual-Gauss assaults across the Inner Sphere by that point and the fact that as of 3067 anyway, none were C3i capable (or at least in Word hands for the upgrade). It's a bit bland by that standard, but there's a reason the combo is so popular- it works damned well!

I'd have been interested in an AA-role dual-LB-10X model, to be honest. C3i-networked vehicle-murder guns would be pretty fun.
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #12 on: 29 March 2016, 12:24:46 »
Yeah, there wasn't really a need for a LGR variant with the Vanquisher sitting right behind it. And I'm sort of glad they went for something else. Of course, depending on your view of the UACs, you might want to skip over the 01 and go straight for the 02 and beyond.

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #13 on: 29 March 2016, 12:40:33 »
Going deeper into this mech as part of a C3i network.

Like it's older brother, C3i has the same roles, spotter/pointman, linesman, and firesupport.  Or the guy that gets in the enemy's hip pocket for targeting data, or just beyond the edge of his ECM bubble(s), whichever comes first.  The guy who is the spotter's backup and bodyguard to slow up anyone rushing the firesupport, and the guys who hang back sending the rain of pain.

The one issue with C3i is that you have less slots, so some units will have to pull double duty.  For example in a C3 company I'd go 3-4-5, from the above order of roles.  Maybe as high as six or seven firesupport designs depending on how survivable my pointmen are and how good the linesmen would be at filling in.

C3i, well I'd go at least three firesupport, with spotters and linesmen filling the rest, and I'd like at least one linesman able to fill in as a pointman or firesupport.  For the C3i machine, outside of a spotter which is highly specialized, their is a need for flexibility as the battle goes on and you take damage.

So, the 01, 02, and 03 are primarily firesupport designs.   Hang back and rain destruction on your foes.  The 02 is slightly better in this, the 7 hex short range of LRMs lets the spotter hang just outside of ECM range and still deliver short range target mods.  Though the 01 and 03 would have to take medium range modifiers, the +2 jump from long via C3i is still cheaper in BV terms than a two better gunner.  The 03's extra speed can let it lumber forth to use as an emergency Linesman, or even last ditch pointman.  Hopefully by the time this becomes necessary you've worked the enemy over enough they will not last long enough to take advantage of your LFE.

The 04?  Well the Snubbie is a Pointman weapon, maximum damage and short range from outside ECM reach.  Plus the MASC for a speed burst as need.  As the reviewer said, the claws make this an 'in your face, ripping it off' style mech.  And as such a pointman.


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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #14 on: 29 March 2016, 14:24:21 »
Despite never really being that much of a Blakist player, I've always loved the Legacy. My greatest hope is that the design is not truly extinct, but lives on through samples located in that cache of Blakist gear found by Clan Goliath Scorpion just before founding their Imperio. Wether upgraded with Clan tech, or downgraded to use local supplies, it would be interesting to see what is done with any chasses they possess.

...

Who knows...
« Last Edit: 29 March 2016, 14:26:18 by Knightmare »
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #15 on: 29 March 2016, 14:38:31 »
What? This is Battletech! Mechs don't die, they just get rebranded and repurposed! :)
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #16 on: 29 March 2016, 15:42:42 »
Hell yeah it is! Aesthetically speaking, one of my favorite 'Mechs in the game by far. I always hunt for any excuse to field one whenever I play WoB.
Great write-up, will post more later. Not a lot of time to post right now, but the conspiracy-minded of you out there should probably get a chuckle or two out of the -WVR subdesignation of the LGC-04.

Check out the reprint's cover:



What is that mech in the backround carrying a sword??  Looks almost like a Cataphract..

As for me, in the 3 times i have used Legacies, i have always gone with the base model.  The twin UAC-10s are nasty, but the old jamming rules did suck.
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #17 on: 29 March 2016, 16:28:08 »
What is that mech in the backround carrying a sword??  Looks almost like a Cataphract..


I think the mech you refer to is a Gurkha

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #18 on: 29 March 2016, 16:29:17 »
What is that mech in the backround carrying a sword??  Looks almost like a Cataphract..

As for me, in the 3 times i have used Legacies, i have always gone with the base model.  The twin UAC-10s are nasty, but the old jamming rules did suck.

Pretty sure that's a Gurkha.

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #19 on: 29 March 2016, 19:48:59 »
A Gurkha indeed, providing quality spotting for a Legacy just as Getz recommends  O0

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #20 on: 29 March 2016, 23:58:34 »
I'm guessing the real reason the Rising Star never reach full production was competition. Depending on the era, the Rising Star would need to compete the Emperor or Rifleman II as a assault class dakka platform for the SLDF. If the first batch didn't have performance problems due to targeting issue, it may have been adopted by one of the Great Houses like how the Dragon was rescued by Draconis Combine. That said, the potential was obvious to the Word once they looked into the design.

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #21 on: 30 March 2016, 04:53:34 »
If anyone is interested, here's the article that I wrote on the Legacy well over a decade ago, back when it was still a fairly new design:

Blakist Target of the Week: LGC-* Legacy


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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #22 on: 30 March 2016, 06:30:46 »
The Legacy always struck me as a solid if unexceptional Mech. But when you put in C3i shenanigans, then it becomes a whole lot more interesting and capable.  And with its standard engine and general toughness it can do quite well alongside Celestial's as a lancemate or back up for them. 

Great article by the way :) Very informative :)
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #23 on: 30 March 2016, 13:51:10 »
It's one of a very few WoB 'Mech-minis I own, and I purchased it entirely based on the sheer badassitude of the artwork (which I feel carried over to the mini as well).  I've never actually played one, but I've got enough stuff used by the Blakist lying around that I figured I could eventually make a 3rd Division (Pure Thoughts and Action III-...mu, I think?) force centered on the Legacy.   Just one Level III.  For fun. I'm not converting to Blakism, I swear.   :D
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #24 on: 30 March 2016, 16:26:02 »
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #25 on: 30 March 2016, 18:48:52 »
I've played this mech (but only the 01 config) a couple of times, never really liked it.

I really hate the heat inefficiency of the Ultra 10s, but the bigger issue I have is their relatively short range.  It's very easy for enemy forces to close the engagement range and mob this thing, and then its heat problems work against it.
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #26 on: 30 March 2016, 18:51:32 »
It's how we all come over --- between an ebay lot that came out to about 2 dollars a mech, and a gift from some getting out of the game, of approximately another 60 to 70 minis...... I ended up going from maybe 2 Level II's to being able to field a Shadow Division with little difficulty

Of the 80 or so, from e-bay, 40 were WOB exclusive, and the other 40 are on their MUL list -- the gift was about 30 WOB exclusives, and all but 6 of the remainders being on their MUL list.....

And now, yeah, I field WOB -- complete with 2 Legacies ... which cost me about $2.00 for both minis.

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #27 on: 30 March 2016, 20:42:13 »
I've played this mech (but only the 01 config) a couple of times, never really liked it.

I really hate the heat inefficiency of the Ultra 10s, but the bigger issue I have is their relatively short range.  It's very easy for enemy forces to close the engagement range and mob this thing, and then its heat problems work against it.

18 hexes is short range?  ???  I always considered that the breakpoint for a truly long range weapon.

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #28 on: 30 March 2016, 23:03:15 »
It's short enough that most mechs can push forward into medium range within one or two rounds, especially if they've got guns with better range brackets.
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #29 on: 31 March 2016, 09:19:10 »
Sure, which is why its a good middleman for a Level II. You close with the Legacy and that prevents you from closing with the Vanquisher that's behind that.

Of course, that highlights the big problem with c3 and c3i. If your opponent simply pushes forward hard and gets into medium and short ranges, then the c3 force is paying a stupid amount for bonuses that are no longer viable.

Of course, its worth mentioning that if you're not using it as part of a c3i force and are using it on its own, the heat scale and tonnage spent on c3i can be drawbacks. Those are somewhat mitigated by having it as part of a Level II.

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #30 on: 31 March 2016, 09:23:10 »
18 hexes is short range?  ???  I always considered that the breakpoint for a truly long range weapon.

Then you factor in a C3i network, and you're hitting at 18 hexes with guns that may very well have short-range modifiers...  8)
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #31 on: 31 March 2016, 09:52:27 »
Sure, which is why its a good middleman for a Level II. You close with the Legacy and that prevents you from closing with the Vanquisher that's behind that.

Of course, that highlights the big problem with c3 and c3i. If your opponent simply pushes forward hard and gets into medium and short ranges, then the c3 force is paying a stupid amount for bonuses that are no longer viable.

Of course, its worth mentioning that if you're not using it as part of a c3i force and are using it on its own, the heat scale and tonnage spent on c3i can be drawbacks. Those are somewhat mitigated by having it as part of a Level II.

That is why you want at least one speed demon for your early battle spotter, such as the Gurkha for example.  Get those medium and even short range bonuses early to punish the enemy as they close.  And a linesman has to be beefy enough that even without a C3 bonus you do not want to leave it behind you.  Finally while you might be in short range or medium range of their main guns, that might still be long for the secondary weapons, and unless you have ECM to shut them down, the C3 bonus still applies.

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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #32 on: 01 April 2016, 02:54:01 »
You know, we never know when the Rising Sun was made . . .

Just swapping down to the AC/10s with the same ammo and removing the C3i gives you plenty of room to drop the ES for standard . . . and IMO, bump that ERSL up to a third ERML.  Which would be a bit of a cheaper late SL-era design that is pretty solid.  It would not have required much work for Skobel to upgrade . . .

If you go earlier of course the ERs become regular, the SSRM becomes regular and you might lose CASE & DHS . . . but still solid to walk around with the Awesome and Stalker- nice find for a Terran Hegemony cache!

Love the Legacy, never really got to play with one . . . the art is great and I enjoyed seeing it used in Isle of Blessed.  I still want to replay that- 2 Legionnaires against a single -01.
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #33 on: 01 April 2016, 07:14:24 »
Would it be beyond the realm of possibility to have a Legacy in my Marik Protectors?  I'm just no god at painting white but I still want to use it.  MUL calls it extinct post-Jihad, but it sounds reasonable to me that some Marik-born Blakist MechWarrior (from, say, the 4th Legionnaires) was able to slip away at the height of the fighting and disappear none the wiser only to make his way to the Periphery and join a struggling pseudo-mercenary unit fighting the good fight in the name of protecting the weak and innocent...
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #34 on: 01 April 2016, 07:55:29 »
Would it be beyond the realm of possibility to have a Legacy in my Marik Protectors?  I'm just no god at painting white but I still want to use it.  MUL calls it extinct post-Jihad, but it sounds reasonable to me that some Marik-born Blakist MechWarrior (from, say, the 4th Legionnaires) was able to slip away at the height of the fighting and disappear none the wiser only to make his way to the Periphery and join a struggling pseudo-mercenary unit fighting the good fight in the name of protecting the weak and innocent...

It's... honestly it's a tough call. It might not have quite the 'NO!' factor of a Celestial, but it's still a signature WoB unit (along with the Gurkha). I'd be pretty worried about how even my allies would react to me showing up in a Legacy.

The other side of that is that other than the C3i system, there's not a lot to a Legacy that would be tough to maintain. Standard engine, fairly easy to acquire/replace weaponry... it would be a breeze to KEEP it running compared to other ex-WoB designs, at least.

To use the old answer, "It's your game, do what you want with it", but I'd say it's 1) plausible and 2) more importantly, gives a great storytelling opportunity- perhaps a fellow warrior's family died at the hands of the Word and the mere sight of that Legacy drives her to want revenge on its current owner...
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #35 on: 01 April 2016, 09:01:17 »
Yeah, I think that the Legacy was one of those chassis tainted by the Word's, well, legacy. Might be plausible in other parts of human space, but I'd be extremely wary of displaying one anywhere near Regulan source.
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #36 on: 14 January 2019, 03:20:59 »
Well, I ended up facing off against an 05 yesterday.  The Legacy continues to underwhelm me with its showing- it never succeeded in doing much damage even with a C3i network and a very good pilot.  I'd fault it for dying quickly, but it was taking fire from a Steiner assault lance: when you've got four mechs gunning for you simultaneously and the lightest of them is a MAD-9S, yeah, you're not going to last a long time.  I mean, two rounds later we dropped a Sarath in one round of fire.

The lance was a BNC-5S Banshee, a BLR-4S Battlemaster, a GUN-1ERD Gunslinger, and a MAD-9S Marauder. Having that kind of firepower leveled at a mech will put it down quickly.
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #37 on: 14 January 2019, 10:14:01 »
I'd suggest giving it another try sometime when it isn't facing a Surigao Straight-style hopeless battle then- no Mech would stand up to that lance for long.

I'm not a huge fan of the -05 myself, but I'll at least give it a mulligan on THAT fight.
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #38 on: 14 January 2019, 10:28:11 »
Yeah . . . the 05 is IMO a Celestial-esque design, armed like a med but emphasis on the survivability.
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #39 on: 14 January 2019, 11:56:53 »
Yeah . . . the 05 is IMO a Celestial-esque design, armed like a med but emphasis on the survivability.

It really is, sort of an Archangel-lite in that regard. It's not armed a lot better than an Uziel despite an extra thirty tons, but trying to kill one... well, you either need overwhelming firepower like what Ogre brought up in its face, or you need to hit it in the face hard, because otherwise it'll toddle home for repairs eventually, and you... well, won't.
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Re: Mech of the Week: LGC-* Legacy
« Reply #40 on: 14 January 2019, 15:14:36 »
The Legacy did live longer under the lance's attention than the Seraph (not a Sarath- that was a horrible choice to give two different mechs such similar names) did.

Actually, the Legacy went down because it took 2 SRMs from the Battlemaster into the head, followed by a slug from the Marauder's autocannon.  So yeah, we did hit it in the face, repeatedly.

The real thing that was going on with the Blakists was that despite having a pair of Level IIs (one of which was a Shadow Division running Celestials) vs two Lyran Guard assault lances, they weren't really playing aggressively so the Wall of Steel was able to focus terrifying amounts of firepower on individual targets every round.  By the time the game was called, the Word had lost six mechs with a seventh crippled to the point of being combat ineffective while the Lyrans were only down the Banshee and Battlemaster, with the Gunslinger, Fafnir, and Zeus (9T) having only sustained superficial damage and the Goliath (4S) being the only one that actually had armor breaches.  The Marauder and Atlas (7S2) had some thin armor but were still in fairly good condition.
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