Author Topic: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II  (Read 13569 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #30 on: 05 August 2018, 17:27:03 »
Well, damn, that IS useful.
Wish I'd have heard of that. Though I think I got mine over BattleCorps, so I doubt I'll get a new download.
There's certainly a lot of clan weapons with uneven damage numbers.
Regarding firepower - I think 60 damage at long range is indeed impressive - you pay with range for damage.
A Bane 3 has just 20% more.

Its more about crits & TACs based on several discussions and official questions.

Ogre, yeah I know about the Executioner's bad armor choices which is why I also included the Blood Asp which is better in that regard.  Just few of the original configs jumped.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #31 on: 05 August 2018, 17:57:35 »

 though not all with heat efficiency

Aye, there's the rub. Few Clan Mechs can heat sustainably put out 40 points long and 60 points close, while maintaining the Mk II's 4/6 speed.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #32 on: 05 August 2018, 19:18:31 »
honestly, i suspect that with the proliferation of Reflective armor in the post-jihad eras, the original Mk.II version found a niche. it is a bit inefficient when it came out, but those LRM's and gauss rifles just ignore the reflective armor that would have rendered a PPC based loadout ineffective. and the Gauss Rifles and lasers just ignore the reactive armor that makes LRM's ineffective..

as an 'all comers' design it shines in the dark ages as a result. more so than most of its later variants.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #33 on: 05 August 2018, 21:45:20 »
That's a good point.  Anti-ballistic armor would be a problem for it, but it's so rare that it shouldn't be a serious problem.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #34 on: 06 August 2018, 07:38:49 »
Ballistic-Reinforced also suffers from a quarter less raw protection, so there'll be plenty of other machines to take care of that particular problem.
Maybe it's just not particularly clan-like, but it's a solid design. Bland, certainly.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #35 on: 06 August 2018, 19:37:17 »
I wanted to pop in real quick and explain the Mk.II-2, because it's an odd duck that deserves its fluff explained to match the stats.

This is one of my designs, and when we submitted it we also submitted a little explanation of the Mech. That didn't make the book, and the result is that it looks like a slightly subpar design compared to its parent. And that's exactly what it is- but why? Because it's intended to be that way.

See, the Sharks had a hit on their hands with the original design, selling it to pretty much anyone who could rub two coins together. And a big part of that is who they sold to- IS forces got a really nice Mech, but the Sharks only mounted older equipment on the design (see the writeup for the old-school Gauss rifles and such). That's good- but it's also unsustainable. How long until you run out of those old weapon caches? You can start production of new stuff, sure, but that cuts into your profit margins. Another idea is to produce a variant, also using older equipment- bonus, by making one that's significantly different from the original, you may be able to drum up new interest, especially important as the FCCW was winding down and there was need for two large military forces to re-arm themselves (in-universe, of course, no one knew what was coming next).

The result was an urban-warfare version of the Mk.II, dropping long-range power for close-range punch. I very seriously considered dropping down to an LB-10X in order to keep the lasers, but felt the 'big boomstick' was a more likely selling point for the Sharks tryiing to get new interest in their assault Mech- LB-10Xs are easy to find on a lot of designs, but a 20X is a bit trickier. The quad-Streak racks were simply because I love using Streak launchers- again, twin Streak-6 were considered in place of the quad-4s, but the idea was to keep this 'weird and flawed' rather than optimizing it. Losing the lasers hurt, I admit, but it was getting a little sticky finding weight to work with- either of the above fixes would have allowed for it, I suppose.

The result is a Mech that honestly isn't particularly good overall, but does have a massive short-range punch, a more-than-token long-range attack still, the jump jets remained so it could clear obstacles in broken/urban environments... and as it turns out, it ended up being just about perfect for the kind of street-to-street fighting the Jihad produced, at least briefly- with those ammo loadouts, it's not going to last long before it has to go home for ammo. And that's okay- again, Clan design philosophy doesn't really call for cavernous ammo bins, right?

My other designs I've contributed to this universe were intended for very specific roles, and were tweaked to be as good as possible at that one job above all other considerations. This though was intended to be scary on-paper, cheap and appealing to sales clientele, and underwhelming when actually used. Remember, not every design can- or should- be a min-maxed perfection machine like the Hellstar. Sometimes you get flawed lemons, and I'm happy to have provided one here that is both flawed and usable at the same time.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #36 on: 06 August 2018, 19:49:58 »
I keep imagine using it in place of a Hauptmann A.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #37 on: 06 August 2018, 21:29:27 »
...a LB-10X version sounds kinda cool idea now.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #38 on: 06 August 2018, 22:29:14 »
The Mad Cat Mk II 4 is a phenomenal unit in Alpha Strike.  Consistent damage at all ranges, high overheat for points-discounted damage, OVL, good durability, and jumping movement.  It pairs excellently with a higher skill pilot, and is probably one of the two or three best candidates for the Sniper SPA in the game.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #39 on: 07 August 2018, 09:09:21 »
Honestly with what MWDA did I am surprised we did not get a version that had a pair of LB-5X, some ERSL and ATMs or larger LRM racks . . .
Colt Ward
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #40 on: 07 August 2018, 09:24:44 »
Thanks for the behind-the-scenes notes JHB.

Personally I like the choice of Streak 4s, crit-seeking is a valid alternative strategy to blasting big holes and complements the Mk II variant lineup

Honestly with what MWDA did I am surprised we did not get a version that had a pair of LB-5X, some ERSL and ATMs or larger LRM racks . . .
That would be the Mad Cat Mk III. Think I might tackle that one next.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #41 on: 07 August 2018, 09:51:57 »
Second, what changes were those?

for the sake of PSR rolls all damage on hardened is now counted as half towards the PSR unless re-laser damage (which ignore this and are directly counted for the sake of PSR) no rounding involved so it now takes what would count as 40 damage on other armors to cause a 20+ damage in one turn PSR roll.

ie hardened armor mechs no longer has to do a PSR check should it take a single (improved)heavy gauss slug or single AC-20 hit.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=62102.0
« Last Edit: 07 August 2018, 10:00:07 by AJC46 »

Colt Ward

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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #42 on: 07 August 2018, 09:57:29 »
Thanks for the behind-the-scenes notes JHB.

Personally I like the choice of Streak 4s, crit-seeking is a valid alternative strategy to blasting big holes and complements the Mk II variant lineup
That would be the Mad Cat Mk III. Think I might tackle that one next.

Oh I know about the Mad Cat Mk III (Or real standard Stormcrow . . . all those names shifting to other weights) . . . but I specifically started it off with paired class 5 ACs of flavor b/c you saw that with a lot of their mechs . . . Jupiter, Ryoken II, Catapult C2, and others.  Might have to play with this idea in HMP when I get home tonight.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #43 on: 07 August 2018, 15:21:39 »
As much flak as the clicky game gets, it did make the Mad Cat Mk. II 5 my favorite of the designs; it might not be the best, but it is solid and I love the asymmetry of the arms. I remember being so excited when my copy of "The Vede" Vederman's Mad Cat II arrived in the mail! I really should go get it out of storage and plop it on my desk.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #44 on: 08 August 2018, 01:30:54 »
Hm, yeah . . . they could have done it with paired LB-5X, 2 ATM-9 and a few other changes . . . more range, but a big drop off in hitting power.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #45 on: 08 August 2018, 07:17:21 »
Is there a record of Dark Age units often using pairs of eclectic, barely effective weaponry?
I never played it.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #46 on: 08 August 2018, 09:10:41 »
I think it was a mix between range & number of weapons . . . look at the Jupiter's ACs . . . but yeah, you ran into a lot of 2 & 5 class ACs of various flavors, ERSL and MGs.  One the flip side, you also ended up with a lot of Heavy Large Lasers in weird places.
Colt Ward
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #47 on: 08 August 2018, 11:29:45 »
Is there a record of Dark Age units often using pairs of eclectic, barely effective weaponry?
I never played it.

Yes.  It's because the appearance and clicky stats of DA units were done first, then board game stats had to be reverse-engineered from them.  This led to a lot really weird design decisions.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #48 on: 08 August 2018, 12:34:24 »
It didn't help that WK seemingly couldn't decide which Mad Cat they want. We had the icon with a Mad Cat MK II that never appeared in mini form, art that resembled a Timber Wolf and vague descriptions that could technically work on ether platform. CGL had to solidify that it was the Mad Cat MK II though I now wonder how many Timber Wolf load outs would work well on the 90 ton platform (haven't bothered doing the math) though few player want xerox designs give or take 15 tons.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #49 on: 08 August 2018, 12:42:42 »
Actually, if you go with LB5s instead of GRs the mk.II weapon package fits perfectly on the Timby. No JJs, thought...

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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #50 on: 08 August 2018, 12:46:17 »
I think most classic Mad Cat configs would work well on the MK II: the GRs and ammo alone take 28 tons, and given that the Mad Cat mounted FF armor and ES chassis, it wouldn't have issues with lack of internal space.

Actually, the main issue might be running out of crits for the extra tonnage.  Look how the Mk II standard beats the Mad Cat A (usually held up as one of the best Mad Cat configs) in firepower while using heavier GRs instead of ER PPCs.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #51 on: 08 August 2018, 13:05:12 »
It didn't help that WK seemingly couldn't decide which Mad Cat they want. We had the icon with a Mad Cat MK II that never appeared in mini form, art that resembled a Timber Wolf and vague descriptions that could technically work on ether platform. CGL had to solidify that it was the Mad Cat MK II though I now wonder how many Timber Wolf load outs would work well on the 90 ton platform (haven't bothered doing the math) though few player want xerox designs give or take 15 tons.

Yeah . . . for instance, I was looking and you could make a Gus Eddington (or however it was spelled) version on a regular Timberwolf- Gauss Rifle & HLL.

One notable pilot not mentioned!  Kal Radick . . . got dead to Anastasia Kerensky.  I want to say he had the 5, painted so much silver it seemed white . . . she sold his mech off to the Sea Foxes (and they rebuilt it as Eddington's IIRC!).

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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #52 on: 10 August 2018, 13:59:27 »
I wanted to pop in real quick and explain the Mk.II-2, because it's an odd duck that deserves its fluff explained to match the stats.

This is one of my designs, and when we submitted it we also submitted a little explanation of the Mech. That didn't make the book, and the result is that it looks like a slightly subpar design compared to its parent. And that's exactly what it is- but why? Because it's intended to be that way.

See, the Sharks had a hit on their hands with the original design, selling it to pretty much anyone who could rub two coins together. And a big part of that is who they sold to- IS forces got a really nice Mech, but the Sharks only mounted older equipment on the design (see the writeup for the old-school Gauss rifles and such). That's good- but it's also unsustainable. How long until you run out of those old weapon caches? You can start production of new stuff, sure, but that cuts into your profit margins. Another idea is to produce a variant, also using older equipment- bonus, by making one that's significantly different from the original, you may be able to drum up new interest, especially important as the FCCW was winding down and there was need for two large military forces to re-arm themselves (in-universe, of course, no one knew what was coming next).

The result was an urban-warfare version of the Mk.II, dropping long-range power for close-range punch. I very seriously considered dropping down to an LB-10X in order to keep the lasers, but felt the 'big boomstick' was a more likely selling point for the Sharks tryiing to get new interest in their assault Mech- LB-10Xs are easy to find on a lot of designs, but a 20X is a bit trickier. The quad-Streak racks were simply because I love using Streak launchers- again, twin Streak-6 were considered in place of the quad-4s, but the idea was to keep this 'weird and flawed' rather than optimizing it. Losing the lasers hurt, I admit, but it was getting a little sticky finding weight to work with- either of the above fixes would have allowed for it, I suppose.

The result is a Mech that honestly isn't particularly good overall, but does have a massive short-range punch, a more-than-token long-range attack still, the jump jets remained so it could clear obstacles in broken/urban environments... and as it turns out, it ended up being just about perfect for the kind of street-to-street fighting the Jihad produced, at least briefly- with those ammo loadouts, it's not going to last long before it has to go home for ammo. And that's okay- again, Clan design philosophy doesn't really call for cavernous ammo bins, right?

My other designs I've contributed to this universe were intended for very specific roles, and were tweaked to be as good as possible at that one job above all other considerations. This though was intended to be scary on-paper, cheap and appealing to sales clientele, and underwhelming when actually used. Remember, not every design can- or should- be a min-maxed perfection machine like the Hellstar. Sometimes you get flawed lemons, and I'm happy to have provided one here that is both flawed and usable at the same time.

Actually, the 2 and 3 got TRO entries. Albeit only a small BC exclusive blurb. (202 words on pure fluff)
The 2 never sold as well as the original, but it did good enough. The 3 went to the Sharks exclusively and was never produced in large numbers while the factories underwent some retooling for the Enhanced.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #53 on: 18 August 2018, 10:19:44 »
I appreciate the gathering of all the Mk. II variants in one article. I lost track of what version carried what after the 2. I kept seeing different versions as minis on CamoSpecs and IWM but never looked them up.
Having played the II and II-2 for so long, the idea of a Mk. II that doesn't jump is a strange thought to me, so the 3 doesn't seem all that attractive even with the firepower increase of the HAGs.
I'd much prefer the the main Mk.II over the 4, though I could see the value in exploiting holes opened up by other units, though a plethora of other designs could also do that for far cheaper if not necessarily from the same ranges.
The 5, now that one I must try with those IJJs. I wasn't a fan of the arms-only weapons array until I saw they've got the armor to take x2 Gauss/CERPPC hits without going internal. It's got the movement and armor to really be a PITA, and the damage output is respectable enough (I suppose...) where you can't really afford to ignore it.
The 6 is brand new to me, I never really heard of it before now. Seems like it will perform it's role of a fire sponge quite well, requiring a disproportionate amount of effort to put down. I suppose if their is any upside to seeing one on the wrong side of the table, and if I understand right, is the repair happens at the end of the turn? I suppose if you focused enough ordnance (targeting computers would be critical) you could cripple if not down it before the Harjel starts it's work. Easier said than done, I know.

That intro sticks out as unworthy of a quality article like this, though. Over than that, great article and I thank you.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #54 on: 27 August 2018, 16:22:41 »
I'm a fan of the Enhanced in Alpha Strike. I know Scotty prefers the 4, and with good reason, but I like the extra armor on the Enhanced. You give up one point of OV, and the OVL special, but for 5PV you pick up 4 more points of armor and the CR special. Yeah, you loose the probe as well, but I'm OK with that. I prefer paying points for armor rather than structure, because of crits. An extra 4 points PLUS the CR special means you really need to mark off every single bubble to kill this thing, and lucky crits are very unlikely to take it down. With the loss of OVL, I prefer Jumping Jack for an SPA with this mech, but Sniper is still not a bad idea.

In AS at least, the Mk II is a solid assault mech. Maybe not my favorite ever, but it is undeniably good.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
« Reply #55 on: 27 August 2018, 22:35:44 »
Honestly I prefer the 4 largely for the simple reason that it makes a better convention 'Mech: good baseline damage and a middle/high OV plus the opportunities to use it make for much more interesting games than an endless parade of high damage no OV units that have no choices to make besides who to roll dice at.

At 4/4/4 with OV3 and OVL, the Mad Cat Mk II 4 is one of the best in the business for choice.
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