Playing with blue water ships

[Colt Ward]

Anyone used a blue water ship on table top like the Rapier or Jorgumund?  How did you arrange it?  What about the record sheet?  Pictures?

[AlphaMirage]

I've done a couple of mock battles but used them much like space warships on an aerospace map.  Any contribution to the ground games is typically as an artlleey bombardment platform.

[Colt Ward]

For the most part, but I can think of a few places & scenarios they could possibly interact with mech forces along a coast.

[Minemech]

 In campaigns, they can make neat surprise elements. There is nothing quite as frustrating like finding a Monitor the hard way. Better yet, force players to defend blue sea ships, long enough for them to retreat using them--fail to defend enough, and you lose transportation room.

[Col Toda]

I had a mostly water world have 4 Lysander Class Ships to defend it .  Stealth Sattelights would indicate enemy orbital assets and the Lysanders would launch Aerospace fighters to attack the enemy if they they were in a sensor shadow . If fighters pursued them back the ship would fire Air Defense Arrow IV while recovering its fighters . Damage ammo and armor tracs were done on simple graph paper . For the most part I agree that in most cases it is an artillary platform . I would be interested in new designs with cruise missile launchers . The purpose of any Navy Blue or Space is to project power . 

[Dragon Cat]

Harbour defence or evacuation with on of the ships in port ground elements have to hold ground for evac ship can't leave or move that restricts it's firing arcs keeping the firepower from being over powerful in a ground game

[Minemech]

 You can have green and brown water navies in BattleTech, as well as coast guards.

[Colt Ward]

How hard are the sheets to manage?

[Azakael]

I've done a couple of mock battles but used them much like space warships on an aerospace map.  Any contribution to the ground games is typically as an artlleey bombardment platform.

Pretty much this. In our Total Chaos campaign, my friend ran "My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean" and took the reward loss to include the Jormungand. And it rained fire on me. It wasn't *devastating*, but it certainly made things a lot harder. Though having one of his own shell drift back onto his 'Mech was a bit classy. I seem to recall that it was the terrain and the forces he brought that was more of a hindrance to me.

[Colt Ward]

So playing around to convert real ships into BT equivalents . . .

Primary Armament
Long Tom Artillery- Battleship guns (12-16 inch)
Sniper Artillery- Cruiser guns (6-8 inch)
Thumper Artillery- Destroyer/Frigate guns (3-5 inch)
Arrow IV Artillery- ship to ship missiles

needs scaling/differentiation
Cruise missiles- surface to surface
Subcap missiles- surface to surface

Secondary armament
4+ inch guns-  UAC/10, AC/10, ERLL, PPC/ERPPC or LRM15/20
3 inch guns or less- UAC/5, LL, LRM10

AA armament
LB-5X AC

Any torpedos
LRT racks

The only thing is, converting real warships will be slower than some canon- like the Jormungand that is 6/9 while most IRL would be 3/5 or 4/6.  The other would be, for example the ship I saw, the BB35 Texas had ten 14 inch primary guns.  It was also a older battleship, but gives it 10 Long Toms while something like the Jormungand only has 6 or 9, I cannot remember.  But we also have destroyers like the Andryusha which has one or two Long Toms.

What would be some rules for conversions?

[Minemech]

 The Monitor is a green water vessel that has neither your listed primary, or secondary weapons.

[Retry]

So playing around to convert real ships into BT equivalents . . .

Primary Armament
Long Tom Artillery- Battleship guns (12-16 inch)
Sniper Artillery- Cruiser guns (6-8 inch)
Thumper Artillery- Destroyer/Frigate guns (3-5 inch)
Arrow IV Artillery- ship to ship missiles

needs scaling/differentiation
Cruise missiles- surface to surface
Subcap missiles- surface to surface

Secondary armament
4+ inch guns-  UAC/10, AC/10, ERLL, PPC/ERPPC or LRM15/20
3 inch guns or less- UAC/5, LL, LRM10

AA armament
LB-5X AC

Any torpedos
LRT racks

The only thing is, converting real warships will be slower than some canon- like the Jormungand that is 6/9 while most IRL would be 3/5 or 4/6.  The other would be, for example the ship I saw, the BB35 Texas had ten 14 inch primary guns.  It was also a older battleship, but gives it 10 Long Toms while something like the Jormungand only has 6 or 9, I cannot remember.  But we also have destroyers like the Andryusha which has one or two Long Toms.

What would be some rules for conversions?

I think for satisfactory conversions one would need to basically remake the support vehicle rules or combat vehicle rules to effectively encompass large naval vessels, since the current rules are extremely limited by space and armor.  And possibly more equipment conversions for water-based combat.  Long Toms are more like ground-based artillery pieces so they don't approximate the big 16" and 18" guns you'd find on BBs very well, but I think a modified Capital or Sub-Capital Autocannon would do that well.

And there's no real equivalent to the guided ASMs or SAMs either: Arrow IV can sort of work for the latter but not the former as it's much too short ranged, can only be guided with TAG, and it's more like a very early, miniaturized ATACMS in the first place.

[Minemech]

 Keep Thunderbolts in mind. They may lack a bit in range, but no aircraft wants to be hit by one.

[Colt Ward]

I think for satisfactory conversions one would need to basically remake the support vehicle rules or combat vehicle rules to effectively encompass large naval vessels, since the current rules are extremely limited by space and armor.  And possibly more equipment conversions for water-based combat.  Long Toms are more like ground-based artillery pieces so they don't approximate the big 16" and 18" guns you'd find on BBs very well, but I think a modified Capital or Sub-Capital Autocannon would do that well.

And there's no real equivalent to the guided ASMs or SAMs either: Arrow IV can sort of work for the latter but not the former as it's much too short ranged, can only be guided with TAG, and it's more like a very early, miniaturized ATACMS in the first place.

I know the pitfalls . . . which is honestly why I was looking at WWII & Korean era ships- before missiles became too accurate.  I think Artillery is fine for ship to ship as well, even if the ranges are shorter its not something that breaks the setting.  We have talked about sub-cap missiles being SSM, something like the 60s & early 70s monsters.  Subcap lasers & PPCs on ships are great for orbital defenses- and likely where they should be rather than fixed positions on land.

[Colt Ward]

Rules for building these are in TacOps or TM?

[Colt Ward]

Did we ever get any details on the Sovereign class cruiser from TacOps Pg 245 which is a part of the New Avalon CMM?

[Weirdo]

Aside from being visually identical to a modern Sovremenny DD? Nothing at all.

I did use an Argo in a fight for some islands once. Used it as an improvised landing craft by getting close to an island so that the lance of mechs could jump ashore. It did sink eventually, but only due to sustained fire from a truly ungodly amount of S-G LRMs. The mechs were completely ignored, probably because my opponent feared the rear turrets and the loaded Shiva being brought up to the flight deck even more. Highlight was a sextuple Long Tom broadside direct-fired at a Guillotine. Didn't kill it, but it said Ow, fell down, and didn't even bother trying to get up for the rest of the game. >:D