New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen

[Sellsword]

Thanks, but I also think you're blowing the "new cover" thing way out of proportion.

Could be.  Like I said I was disappointed.

[monbvol]

And you're not alone in being disappointed.

I honestly would wonder if I was picking up the current rules/printing if I didn't know better.

[Daryk]

Knowing CGL's bandwidth is limited, where would you propose players who like the new box sets go for more BattleTech?  I think CGL made a logical allocation of limited resources in anticipation of new players with box sets taking the next step.

[jimdigris]

Has anyone gotten the email from CGL about the updated products?

Nope.

[ColBosch]

Knowing CGL's bandwidth is limited, where would you propose players who like the new box sets go for more BattleTech?  I think CGL made a logical allocation of limited resources in anticipation of new players with box sets taking the next step.

Not the core rulebooks. To play BattleTech, you need rules, record sheets, maps, and miniatures. CGL is providing only one of those four things to players who want more BattleTech. Yes, I am fully aware - after thirty years of playing this game - that you can fill out record sheets yourself and use proxy models. I am also very - even painfully - aware that IWM makes lots of different miniatures. But if I didn't have those decades of experience, seeing that the only in-print expansions for BattleTech are big, pricey rulebooks and expensive metal models of 'Mechs I can't even identify, well, I don't think I'd bother.

[ActionButler]

I think the new boxed sets are far more important in today's market.

This is the correct answer.  Maps, minis, tiny rules booklet.  Everythng you would need.  Everything you would want. 

Apart from more minis and maps.

EDIT: I’m happy to see the rules back in print, of course, because money for CGL is money for CGL. I don’t necessarily understand the grief with the old cover art since Battletech already IS your grandfather’s wargame.  Slow gameplay, lots or rules, lots of tables, lots of rules, lots of details.  CGL  might as well advertise it with the cover art.

And, you know, that might not be bad.  Everywhere I look, their are old school renaissances of everything.  Old school D&D, eighties-style tv shows, record stores... as much as I love Alpha Strike, maybe there is a place for slow burn Battletech in the world.   

[pheonixstorm]

I don't think the reuse of some really old art was the best way to reprint the rules. Yes it is needed as you can't fit all of those rules in either box. Yes they need reprints of more TROs. Yes they need more cheap plastic mechs... but will they be able to do all that?? No.

[Daryk]

Not the core rulebooks. To play BattleTech, you need rules, record sheets, maps, and miniatures. CGL is providing only one of those four things to players who want more BattleTech. Yes, I am fully aware - after thirty years of playing this game - that you can fill out record sheets yourself and use proxy models. I am also very - even painfully - aware that IWM makes lots of different miniatures. But if I didn't have those decades of experience, seeing that the only in-print expansions for BattleTech are big, pricey rulebooks and expensive metal models of 'Mechs I can't even identify, well, I don't think I'd bother.

So what would you recommend to a new player after the box sets?  The record sheets and maps already exist.  Is there some other project that would take as little effort as a reprint of books that many new players can only find on Amazon for ridiculous prices?  There's already a newly registered user asking when the hard copies will be out up in the other announcement thread.  Only sales will tell, but I still think CGL made a good call given their available resources.

[ColBosch]

So what would you recommend to a new player after the box sets?  The record sheets and maps already exist.

There are no in-print maps or record sheet books. The map sets, in particular, are insanely expensive online. There need to be more one-stop solutions for people wanting, well, more.

[Crimson Dawn]

I am so glad I got to see what the new miniatures look like in the box set which makes me really want them.

I have noticed that the metal individual miniatures all come in the same packaging with no photo of what the finished product looks like and since they are in pieces I cannot in the store see what I am buying without going online to find a picture of it.  That is a real pain so thank goodness I got to see them in this new box set so I can get excited about it.

[Colt Ward]

There are no in-print maps or record sheet books. The map sets, in particular, are insanely expensive online. There need to be more one-stop solutions for people wanting, well, more.

In fact . . . its what, 4 or 5 RS books behind the TROs?

[Daryk]

There are no in-print maps or record sheet books. The map sets, in particular, are insanely expensive online. There need to be more one-stop solutions for people wanting, well, more.

Excellent point on the map sets, but as far as record sheets, I'd say printers are easier to find than photocopiers these days, so the electronic version is probably the way to go for those.  I've also only seen questions about rule books, not map sets or record sheets, honestly.

[Scotty]

There are no in-print maps or record sheet books. The map sets, in particular, are insanely expensive online. There need to be more one-stop solutions for people wanting, well, more.

There were mockups of new maps at Origins.

Most of the things people are complaining about in this thread that have made visible and significant progress since Brent took over as LD.  This is his first con season in the position.  Let's give him a shot, eh?

[Liam's Ghost]

Nope.

Nor have I.

[Sartris]

In fact . . . its what, 4 or 5 RS books behind the TROs?

Prototypes, 3150 NTNU are the big two. ER:2750 has a number of units that need RS (eg the Alfar has no official RS)

[Empyrus]

Prototypes, 3150 NTNU are the big two. ER:2750 has a number of units that need RS (eg the Alfar has no official RS)

Plus some sourcebook 'Mechs are missing variant record sheets, like the Dragoon from Historical: Liberation of Terra.

[Daryk]

Will the box sets have all the rules for those sexy new units?

[ColBosch]

Excellent point on the map sets, but as far as record sheets, I'd say printers are easier to find than photocopiers these days, so the electronic version is probably the way to go for those.  I've also only seen questions about rule books, not map sets or record sheets, honestly.

I see more folks ditching their printers, so this might be a "no right answer" sort of question. But fair enough.

There were mockups of new maps at Origins.

As far as I know, the new maps are going to be in the new boxed sets. That's great, but my point is about where players go from there. Right now the product line will consist of two boxed sets, four (!) rulebooks, a single Technical Readout, a sourcebook, some fiction, and a whole lot of miniatures. I'm not expecting CGL to release an entire new product line in one go, but re-releasing the core rulebooks before there is support for them - Tech Readouts, etc. - seems backwards.

[Weirdo]

Will the box sets have all the rules for those sexy new units?

Mech-only, I suspect. Possibly intro-only as well. I actually know nothing, this is just a reasonable guess.

[Daryk]

If that's the case, it seems like you'd  want to have the rules available before the TROs.  As a player, I'd rather know there are things out there I don't have yet than have things with no idea how they work.

[ColBosch]

That does seem to be the plan, but I think it'd be better to have supplemental products that offer ready-to-play options.

[Daryk]

You mean like the rules section in TRO 3085?  That would make sense, but it risks scattering rules all over the place.

[Sellsword]

You mean like the rules section in TRO 3085?  That would make sense, but it risks scattering rules all over the place.

Scattered rules can be a problem and Battletech has a lot of rules.  Rules that are even scattered between core rulebooks.  My solution to the problem would be more box sets building off of the starter sets.  So another box set with maybe a lance or stars worth of redesigned plastic mechs, more new maps and small scenarios that incorporate advanced rules.  The advanced rules would then point to the core rule books to pick up if the customer wants to continue collecting B-Tech.

Each box set would stand alone.  All the rules would be inclusive in the box set.  So customers would buy a starter set, then an "advanced" set or two, then the core rulebooks.  The "advanced" sets could be generic, themed, or maybe different eras but each would be a complete set of advanced rules in a box.  Like buying a board game expansion.  So the rules would be scattered across products but all those rules are consolidate into one core product line for the player that has to have everything.

I really believe that the starter sets will take off and that more products designed like them will be an easier way to introduce new players to the game and keep them involved. 

[abou]

So what would the best kind of purchase be for the new player to get after the box set? In many ways I am imagining something similar to the expansion packs that were made for HeroQuest: new miniatures, items, weapons, map counters, and battles. BattleTech has already done similar things, but not all at once. So maybe combining the idea of the lance boxes, map packs, and scenario books all into one product would be a good idea.

So you take a merc unit or other group. The simple go-to is Gray Death Legion. You tear apart and remake the old scenario book. You include new 'mechs to cover what was not included in the BattleTech core box set: both miniatures and stand-ups and maybe you include a code for some percentage off an online purchase at IWM. You have new maps to introduce new terrain that can either be general or appropriate for a specific scenario as well as terrain tiles or building tiles.

One of the things that struck me about BattleTech is that you had heroes or units that you could follow through years of products. Wolf's Dragoons and The Gray Death Legion in specific had multiple scenario books, novels, and mentions across products. Because of the lack of overall fiction for the past decade, players lost that. The closest we've gotten were Devlin Stone and Stacey Church. Bringing a bit of that pulp back is probably a good idea to attach players to the universe.

[Sellsword]

So what would the best kind of purchase be for the new player to get after the box set? In many ways I am imagining something similar to the expansion packs that were made for HeroQuest: new miniatures, items, weapons, map counters, and battles. BattleTech has already done similar things, but not all at once. So maybe combining the idea of the lance boxes, map packs, and scenario books all into one product would be a good idea.

So you take a merc unit or other group. The simple go-to is Gray Death Legion. You tear apart and remake the old scenario book. You include new 'mechs to cover what was not included in the BattleTech core box set: both miniatures and stand-ups and maybe you include a code for some percentage off an online purchase at IWM. You have new maps to introduce new terrain that can either be general or appropriate for a specific scenario as well as terrain tiles or building tiles.

One of the things that struck me about BattleTech is that you had heroes or units that you could follow through years of products. Wolf's Dragoons and The Gray Death Legion in specific had multiple scenario books, novels, and mentions across products. Because of the lack of overall fiction for the past decade, players lost that. The closest we've gotten were Devlin Stone and Stacey Church. Bringing a bit of that pulp back is probably a good idea to attach players to the universe.

I think something like this is the way to go.  You could introduce the clans this way.  A generic clan star miniature box set with scenario, new maps, and advanced rules wrapped into one.  It would also help with bloat.  You wouldn't need to produce so many TROs and new mech variants.  People would be waiting for a new box set to come out which might tie into the new novels that are being worked on instead of waiting for more mechs.  It would help with world building and play immersion too.

[Empyrus]

How about something to introduce the Dark Age properly so that (new) people can jump to on-going story, should it ever come out? Otherwise Shattered Fortress will be only interesting to existing players, i think. In median res story telling works but only to certain extent.

Era Report 3145 doesn't quite work as a standalone thing for introducing the Dark Age, a lot of reading isn't the right way to introduce things. Show, don't tell, you know? Not everything can be shown but ER3145 does awful lot of telling only.
Plus there's nothing summarizing events from 3025/3050/3067 until 3130s for those who may be familiar with older eras but not the middle events, and don't have interest reading through all of the Jihad books (which aren't physically available anymore anyway). Or Field Manuals, which aren't exactly casual reading either.

Not sure how this could be done. Nor is it easy, explaining things like the Clans would take time, so i'm not suggesting jump to the Dark Age should happen right away. Just think there should be something to bring people up to speed properly and in interesting way.

Yes yes, i've said this stuff before.

[Fear Factory]

So what would the best kind of purchase be for the new player to get after the box set? In many ways I am imagining something similar to the expansion packs that were made for HeroQuest: new miniatures, items, weapons, map counters, and battles. BattleTech has already done similar things, but not all at once. So maybe combining the idea of the lance boxes, map packs, and scenario books all into one product would be a good idea.

So you take a merc unit or other group. The simple go-to is Gray Death Legion. You tear apart and remake the old scenario book. You include new 'mechs to cover what was not included in the BattleTech core box set: both miniatures and stand-ups and maybe you include a code for some percentage off an online purchase at IWM. You have new maps to introduce new terrain that can either be general or appropriate for a specific scenario as well as terrain tiles or building tiles.

One of the things that struck me about BattleTech is that you had heroes or units that you could follow through years of products. Wolf's Dragoons and The Gray Death Legion in specific had multiple scenario books, novels, and mentions across products. Because of the lack of overall fiction for the past decade, players lost that. The closest we've gotten were Devlin Stone and Stacey Church. Bringing a bit of that pulp back is probably a good idea to attach players to the universe.

I have been preaching this for years.  Especially for Alpha Strike.  Every time I brought it up I got "Oh, it's not doable."  Or "it won't sell."

EDIT:  You explain it a lot better than I do, though.

[SteelRaven]

Again, why I miss the Stater Books but I was one of the few who threw money at it.

[Bedwyr]

I have been preaching this for years.  Especially for Alpha Strike.  Every time I brought it up I got "Oh, it's not doable."  Or "it won't sell."

Fair enough. But the real answer is that you and I don't actually know. We have examples of product lines CGL attempted that just didn't go anywhere that are not dissimilar to your ideas: Lance Packs, Combat Manuals, and SteelRaven just mentioned the Starter Books. All the lines had a few publications but then petered out, I presume because of slow sales. Not that they didn't eventually sell, but that they didn't sell fast enough. Worktroll once used a word I think is apt: velocity. If you can't get enough back in time to build a budget and parcel out art, writing, and design assignments, it's not going to take off. The occasional sales receipts coming in are nice, but they needed to be in *last year* is the idea.

And in any case I repeat myself: we don't know. CGL has the sales numbers and market analysis. We don't. I know that sounds like pooh-poohing what seems to you like a great idea and I'm certainly sorry if it comes across that way, but to be blunt, great ideas are cheap. Ray (Adrian) probably has a notebook full of them. Putting together a development plan and following through is where the real creative work happens and it's way harder than either of us knows.


Anyhow, Cubby and Adrian have been very clear on multiple occasions that the new box sets represent a significant sales experiment. They are intended to be reprinted much more quickly and profitably than previous versions. The more they sell, the more they make. In fact Cubby has all but yelled "buy as many as you want and stop worrying about running out; we'll make more! Sheesh!". It's possible an idea like yours could piggy-back off that, but only if it's successful.

[abou]

Also, we are in this weird time frame where for the past several years the property hasn't had the product support it has really needed. So is that a problem? E.g. why would I buy a product for a game that I can't even get a foundational product for?

As to Empyrus's concern, I don't have a particularly good answer for that either. It does remind me of a similar problem with comic books. Is the declining sales of comic books due to one thing or a combo? Having on solid jumping points for new readers is great, but are reboots too much? If the reboots are too much, is it because of the loss of continuity or lack of quality? Or is it that the cost of comic books combined with the overall lack of wage growth for the past several years the real culprit?

How do you even find an answer to all that?

If we can get expanion box sets, maybe that will help. If there are enough sales of the boxset to give it a go, then trying this model out would not be unheard of.