Author Topic: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf  (Read 26420 times)

Pa Weasley

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'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« on: 06 December 2013, 07:34:36 »
’Mech of the Week: Warwolf OmniMech

Warwolf OmniMech, Technical Readout: 3145, p. 163

It’s hard to say what sparked Khan Seth Wart’s desire to order the development of the Warwolf and its smaller, equally lupus-inspired cousin the Wulfen. Perhaps he was feeling a case of totem envy with the Falcon’s ‘Mechs. The Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, and Shrike had been stomping across the fields looking rather snazzy what with their hooked beaks and partial wings.  Hell’s Horses have been using the Balius to canter into battle, snorting fire and hoping warriors don’t snicker at some inappropriately placed lasers. We haven’t even mentioned the granddaddy of Grand Council costumes ballooned to BattleMech scale, the Kodiak . Worse yet, the Diamond Sharks/Sea Foxes had coopted the Timber Wolf iconography over the decades, possibly stealing some of its luster in the eyes of Clan Wolf’s warriors. The Khan obviously felt something new was required either to inspire his Clan or to fill a gap in its TO&E. Hence, the Warwolf, and its muzzle-like cockpit would be released on an Inner Sphere in turmoil.

Parting the curtains of the fourth wall for a moment, the Warwolf was first spotted in MechWarrior: Age of Destruction’s Wolf Strike expansion park. The OmniMech’s look is based on art by Brent Evans which can be found on his website. The creator of the ‘Mech’s visual aesthetic was also the source of the BattleTech stats, from the base chassis to several of the configurations. Except the H which I believe y’all can lay the blame on jymset for that one.

jymset: next to Patrick Wynne, Brent Evans was one of two people whose input took precedence over all other research that formed TRO 3145.  I had a true geek moment when I realized that Brent had always intended the Warwolf to be an OmniMech.  I pounced on the chance to have some fun with it when doing the H.

So what does Khan Ward’s totemic heavy provide? At 75 tons and a flanking speed of 86 kph, the Warwolf is comfortable in the heavy cavalry role and shares the same Starfire 375 XL fusion engine found in many such Clan machines. While there’s room in the engine, the base chassis has no double heat sinks installed beyond the base ten to save weight. As with many of the aforementioned Clan heavy cavalry models, an endo steel frame forms the Omni’s bones. What separates the Warwolf from so many other machines is what protects all those remarkably similar internal components. Fourteen and a half tons of Forging BL2 reactive armor lends the ‘Mech the maximum level of protection for a machine its size and enables all the forward sections to readily handle the heaviest ‘Mech-scale weapons science has yet created. Well, except the head, but we’ll just ignore that bit. For those looking for specifics, 35 points in the center torso, 24 in the side torsos and arms, and 32 in the legs. Aft sections have a respectable 8/11/8 spread. The advanced armor is bulky and carries a slight risk of … well … explosion. But with that comes enhanced protection for missiles, mortars, and artillery. This could be seen as a Clan’s acceptance that warfare in the Sphere means accepting reality of weathering the odd bit of eruptive rain. The earliest Warwolf combat, aside for trials, was also against the states of the former Free Worlds League. I’d certainly be grateful for anything that takes the edge off the flights of LRMs those armies stereotypically love.

Warwolf availability is limited to Clan Wolf, Wolf Empire, or whatever we’re calling it these days. Prototyped in the Wolf Occupation zone, it didn’t enter full production until manufacturing facilities were retooled on Thermopolis. Initially rare and only available to those who adequately impressed the Khan, the Warwolf will certainly spread though the touman as production continues to spin up. Now we’ll take a gander at what standard configurations those Wolf warriors will be taking into battle.

Warwolf Prime – Like a gunslinger out of the ancient North American West, the Prime’s right arm sports a Gauss rifle with sixteen shots loaded into an attached drum magazine. It’s a visual that continues with the remaining configurations as well, none of them mount a single weapon in the left arm.  Each shoulder supports an LRM 10 as the rifle’s sole backup.  The missile racks are each fed by their own ton of ammunition sheltered in CASE II protected bins. The overall offensive output is light for a Clan heavy, but at least the already fearsome gun is linked to a targeting computer, helping make every shot count.  Proving that reactive armor is great, but making sure the missiles don’t hit is even better, a laser AMS is installed in the head. Just in case the Warwolf Prime’s own weapons aren’t enough, a TAG laser has been added. The Wolves have never been shy about the application of Arrow IVs for problem solving and it would appear they don’t intend to give up on the idea. Finally, each torso contains a single jump jet. While not sufficient to generate any better TMMs that just running, the jets to come in handy for quickly clearing obstacles. Plus the image of this Omni’ “pouncing” on prey is just too appealing. The Prime isn’t about the overwhelming application of firepower, but its precision application. It strikes me as the kind of ‘Mech you assign to a ristar with a finesse streak.

Warwolf A – The Warwolf A takes the simplicity of the Prime’s armament and chucks it out the window without bothering to raise the sash. An ER PPC takes the BFG position in the right arm along with a medium pulse laser. Streak launchers occupy the side torsos; an LRM 10 in the right and an SRM 6 in the left, each with an accompanying ton of ammo protected by CASE II. The A’s center line contains an ER large laser, a second medium pulse laser and in case that wasn’t enough an ER medium laser in the head. Four extra double heat sinks are adequate for bracket firing but letting loose the full mix of beams and missiles will certainly risk unpleasant consequences. Still, it’s fully capable of inflicting pain at all ranges.

Warwolf B – Jump jet fans rejoice! The B has a full complement of standard jump jets for all your bouncing pleasure.  Sadly, the armament is also the lightest of all configurations. The right arm is occupied by an Ultra AC/10 supplied with enough rounds to fire full bore for a solid two and a half minutes. The adjacent torso is fitted with an ER large pulse laser. The head mounted laser AMS returns to provide its aegis. A whopping five double heat sinks keep B astoundingly cool till the engine criticals start. ER pulse lasers take a beating from critics but that’s not the most concerning aspect of this configuration. Having just two weapons and mounting them both on the same side is something I find worrisome. Made sure you keep your left side facing the enemy. On the bright side, it is the least expensive in terms of battle value. Pilot it like a Summoner and you should do well.

Warwolf C – The C is very much the Prime redux with the weapon arrangement, jump jets, targeting computer, even the CASE II munition bins and laser AMS all returning. The right arm gun trades stopping power for accuracy with the mounting of a large pulse laser. Yes the dreaded pulse laser/targeting combination again rears its head.  Shoulder-mounted missile boxes come in the form of ATM 9s this time around, each supplied with two tons of ammo. Unless I know I’m fighting in tight confines, those bins are likely to be split between extend range and high explosive types. Rounding off the C configuration is a trio of additional double heat sinks. Bounding around, weapons blazing and the AMS swatting missile flights, will put the heat gauge into positive territory, but only just. So no worries there. Perhaps it’s the HE rounds making my head all fuzzy, but the C wants to be a close ranged brawler. It’s none too shabby taking on that role, especially if it does finding itself frolicking in the aforementioned tight confines.

Warwolf H – The Gauss rifle returns to its home in the Warwolf’s right arm. The two tons of slugs are stored in the right arm, still in their stylish drum magazine as indicated by the cover art of TRO: 3145 – The Clans. Each of the side torsos houses an improved heavy large laser. The machine is protected from the lasers’ unstable nature by CASE II encapsulation. Three double heat sinks are woefully inadequate to tackle the volume of heat produced by an alpha strike. Thankfully a pair of coolant pods can flush the system keep the warrior from suffering sudden dehydration. Well, twice at least. Given the heavy laser’s short range compared to many other hard hitting weapons, the installation of a supercharger makes perfect sense. It also meshes with the aggressive mindset behind the armament.  Personally, I find a 75 ton ‘Mech charging down the enemy at 108 kph with three guns carving off several tons of armor a thing of beauty.

Like nearly every other Clan heavy ‘Mech, the Warwolf may suffer from comparisons to that sublime piece of machinery, the Timber Wolf. More so with the Warwolf sharing the same mass and pedigree. So it’s worth taking a few moments to set the two side by side. The Warwolf ekes out a pyrrhic victory in terms of available pod space. The new ‘Mech has 30 tons at its disposal, two and a half more than the Timber Wolf. The available critical space is the same, though the distribution differs. The weight advantage is overshadowed, at least for energy-heavy configurations, by the Timber Wolf’s fixed heat sinks. It does work in the War’s advantage in the case of the Prime were anything more than the base ten would over sink the design. The Warwolf’s greatest improvement comes from the thick layer reactive armor, though in terms of raw points there’s only one more than what’s found on the T-Wolf.  That armor is the source of my only true gripe, battle value. Because of the modifier applied by reactive and other specialty armors, the battle values of every configuration are enormous compared to the offensive output.

In the end, the difference comes down to the configurations. Many of the Warwolf pods benefit from new materials and designs born out of experience with Inner Sphere warfare. The torsos are always protected by the installation of CASE II when needed. The ammo supply is more than adequate for typical engagements. None of that silly “one ton of slugs for the Gauss rifle” business like the Timber Wolf B. Running some simulations of Prime versus Prime, the newer Wolf could edge out the older if it could stay outside of medium laser range. Once that gap was reliably closed the T-Wolf often ground the Warwolf down. But saying that the Omni it’s awful because it can’t reliable trounce a Timber Wolf is an egregiously unfair statement. The list of heavies that fall into that category is long and quite distinguished.

jymset: Beyond the BV, the most difficult to swallow about the Warwolf is its eclectic weaponry in some configurations, and the general tendency to concentrate on only a few weapons with big punch.  The Mad Cat is always more balanced, with 2 arm pods and (generally) 2 missile shoulders backed up by small tertiary guns is worth it.

In the end, it’s hard to argue with thick, specialized armor, good speed, and respectable, if sparse, load outs. The Wolves could do worse, and frankly have. I’m comfortable saying that the Warwolf admirably fulfills its purpose as a totem for the Wolf Empire.

As always, the Master Unit List has plenty of information and always worth a look. While there’s no examples on CamoSpecs Online, Iron Wind Metals has recently posted images of the miniature.

blitzy

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #1 on: 06 December 2013, 08:33:23 »
Configuration-wise, it reminds me of a Summoner.  I'd imagine for a while this will be a sharpshooter or a commanders mech.  Pair one with a Timber Wolf or a Savage Wolf, and it'd be pretty cool.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #2 on: 06 December 2013, 09:07:53 »
  That armor is the source of my only true gripe, battle value.

Yeah, have to agree there.  Combined with the eclectic weapon load outs, it makes it hard to chose over older, cheaper, and seemingly more solid choices.  With the BV limits my group uses its a suspect choice, as if you are spending that kind of BV, you want a lot of output or unkillability for your budget.

Doesn't mean it's bad, just more difficult to work with!

Pa Weasley

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #3 on: 06 December 2013, 15:58:43 »
If you really want to make your head spin, try comparing the BV of a Warwolf without pods installed to an equally pods-less Timber Wolf.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #4 on: 06 December 2013, 18:00:56 »
I like how the combination of LAMS and reactive armor makes the Warwolf nearly impervious to missiles- I just wish the LAMS was more present on the variants to exemplify that.

You know, the Warwolf is at an interesting paradigm for recent designs- the base chassis and variants can't be better than the Timber Wolf that all heavies are partly inspired from, and thus it comes off as being extremely sub-par.  Sure, reactive armor is actually pretty darn good and the crits are placed smartly, but the variants of the Warwolf hover from average-to-bad (whoever made the B should be fired and whipped, and not in that order either), with the H being the only one that piques my interest OR couldn't be outdone by an already-present chassis.

If you really want to make your head spin, try comparing the BV of a Warwolf without pods installed to an equally pods-less Timber Wolf.

I really don't know what you're getting at here- I've checked sarna (I know...) and it has most Timber Wolf variants having lower BV than the Warwolf- worst of all being the H, for the Warwolf being 3,184 BV(!).
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #5 on: 06 December 2013, 18:32:35 »
He is suggesting to check podless to compare the BV of the raw chassis.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #6 on: 07 December 2013, 00:26:12 »
Something interesting to note: All of the Reactive Armor critical slots are in the arms or legs. 

The only effect of a chain-reaction is to strip all remaining armor from the location and a singular point of structure damage, which is problematic when someone opens up your rear torsos and blows off all that front armor.  TACs don't hit the arms or legs without floating TACs, and with Reactive outright negating the armor-piercing effects certain weapons and munitions provide, it is extremely unlikely that the Reactive armor's explosive downside will ever do anything more than a point of internal damage. 

Not a major thing, given the already low odds of Reactive armor lighting up, but it's a nice little touch. 

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #7 on: 07 December 2013, 06:43:16 »
Apart from the artwork, which looks more like an Age of War design than anything clan (seriously, it looks like a beefed-up Talos), the design gives the impression of repeating the NovaCat battlearmor saga: going to great lengths to not recreate the elemental. It gives the impression that Khan S. Ward told his scientists "Build me a replacement for the Timber Wolf. I want it to be just like a Timber Wolf, but not a Timber Wolf."
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #8 on: 07 December 2013, 08:43:53 »
This is certainlly the Mech full of guns design.  Fast and hard hitting, you'd likely get your butt kicked if your not smart approaching this thing in combat.  If a Timberwolf engaged one these, it would have serious fight on it hands.  I think with all the options available, a smart pilot would be able over come it before getting holed to death by this thing. 

Plog and Evans before him did a great job the art work for the WarWolf.    I think uniquely (aside from Reactive Armor), that i think its one few Mechs that retains a full arm actuator with a hand through all its configurations unlike other OmniMechs (Clan and Inner Sphere).
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #9 on: 07 December 2013, 15:51:13 »
I've been waiting for a clan 5/8 heavy with twin HLLs and a gauss rifle to be canon.   Not sure how I feel about the supercharged and coolant pods.  I'd rather have more heat sinks. 


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #10 on: 07 December 2013, 21:36:01 »
I like the Warwolf, It does cost but most of the new toys seem to have a high price tag. The Prime reminds me of the Grizzly, one of my old favorites. The A is nice; allot more ammo independent and even if you loose your right arm (the PPC and Medium Laser) you still have you Large Laser and Med in you center torso. I should like the H but I still have a hard time liking any mech that uses a Heavy Large vs a C ER Large Laser or a ER PPC.
« Last Edit: 08 December 2013, 18:00:59 by SteelRaven »
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #11 on: 08 December 2013, 20:09:20 »
Not sure I am happy with any of the configurations, the two JJ are annoying IMO . . . being ballistic protected, I would expect a bit more stand off . . . not too many with LB-5X, LRM, cERLL or ATM dominated loads.  The C is tolerable but for those 2 wasted jump jets could have put more weapons.  I am also one of those weird people who prefer ERLL over the LPL, which means another two tons of weapon possibilities.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #12 on: 09 December 2013, 00:46:22 »
Not sure I am happy with any of the configurations, the two JJ are annoying IMO . . . being ballistic protected, I would expect a bit more stand off . . . not too many with LB-5X, LRM, cERLL or ATM dominated loads.  The C is tolerable but for those 2 wasted jump jets could have put more weapons.  I am also one of those weird people who prefer ERLL over the LPL, which means another two tons of weapon possibilities.
*shrug* I'm the same way with the Vaulter IV, It's a good mech but I don't see a standard configuration I like all that much opposed to the original or the Vaulter MK III. Oh well, to each their own.   
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #13 on: 09 December 2013, 11:57:22 »
I really don't know what you're getting at here- I've checked sarna (I know...) and it has most Timber Wolf variants having lower BV than the Warwolf- worst of all being the H, for the Warwolf being 3,184 BV(!).

I'd just point out that Sarna is not an official data source. If you want to check BV, you should use the official Catalyst tool, http://www.masterunitlist.info/
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #14 on: 09 December 2013, 13:51:25 »
Let's be honest, though, the wiki is vastly more convenient unless you're looking for Alpha Strike Values or the like.
While we're at it, the C looks pretty nifty on that respect.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #15 on: 09 December 2013, 16:06:33 »
*shrug* I'm the same way with the Vaulter IV, It's a good mech but I don't see a standard configuration I like all that much opposed to the original or the Vaulter MK III. Oh well, to each their own.   

See, I love the A and uh, D (twin ATM-12) on the Vulture IV *shrug*

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #16 on: 09 December 2013, 16:45:55 »
Let's be honest, though, the wiki is vastly more convenient unless you're looking for Alpha Strike Values or the like.
While we're at it, the C looks pretty nifty on that respect.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #17 on: 09 December 2013, 17:15:59 »
Sarna is using both the original TRO/Record sheet and MUL's profile of the unit featured as reference.

H Configuration of the 3,184 is what MUL what is being listed as the offical BV.
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Welshman

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #18 on: 10 December 2013, 01:08:59 »
Let's be honest, though, the wiki is vastly more convenient unless you're looking for Alpha Strike Values or the like.
While we're at it, the C looks pretty nifty on that respect.

I admit to being biased, having been the brain child for the MUL.

That said, with the MUL you type in the unit name, let's say the Dervish. The search result brings up every variant of the Dervish and gives you weight, BV (if a Record Sheet exists), cost (if known), what TRO/RS it is in, what Rules level, what ERA, and what intro date. The only thing the search results doesn't give is faction. All of this is in a single table format.

Sarna, on the other hand, gives you the complete entry for the Dervish. You find the original versions BV in the right hand stats column and the BV for all the other variants at the end of the text paragraph for that variant.

A further issue with Sarna, is that it is difficult to if the variant's are canon or not. Sarna has been known to document versions from canon sources that are not canon or are incorrect based on trying to decipher a non-TRO reference.

And finally, Sarna doesn't always list all the variants of the design. In the case of the Dervish, the unique version "Mauck" is not on Sarna.

Again, I fully admit to being biased. I'm a Catalyst Freelancer and I came up with the idea for the MUL.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #19 on: 08 January 2014, 22:57:10 »
I like the Warwolf's art, but like so many mechs introduced under ClickyTech, the Warwolf suffers from a substantial design drawback.  This was touched on in the article, but to emphasize, the decision to not take advantage of the Warwolf's big engine by fixing more freezers than the minimum ten really weakens this omni's configurations.  With only 20 heat points, the Warwolf can't take advantage of the incredible efficiencies of Clan energy weapons and it suffers in comparison to other Clan designs as a result.

For example, if the Warwolf Prime shed five tons of pod mass for five more fixed freezers, those 30 heat points could support two, heat-neutral ER PPCs in place of the one Gauss cannon that the Warwolf sports.  Exchange the two tons of Gauss ammo for two more freezers (34 heat points total) and the Warwolf Prime could alpha strike its two ER PPCs and its two LRM-10s without negative heat effects.  Lose the TAG and/or AMS for another freezer or two and the Warwolf could alpha strike while moving without negative heat effects.

A nearly heat neutral alpha strike of dual ER PPCs guided by a targeting computer and 20 LRMs would be more than a match for the T-wolf, especially with the Warwolf's armor negating the T-wolf's missiles.  But without more fixed freezers, the Warwolf is forced to employ less efficient ballistic- and missile-heavy loadouts that can't really hope to measure up to the T-wolf.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #20 on: 09 January 2014, 21:36:02 »
What really annoys me is that the Wolves somehow always gets cool looking totem themed Mechs, while the Bears are pretty much hit and miss.  The Bruin is IMO the best looking Ghost Bear mech, followed by some interpretations of the Kodiak.   The Karhu would look OK if it lost the skull motiff, but the rest of the Bear Mechs just seem butt ugly to me.  The Bears really need to issue a trial of possession for the Wolf design team so they can get about designing decent looking totem Mechs, someone who could take the best aspects of the Bruin, Kodiak and Karhu and put them in a decent spread of Light to Assault class Mech designs.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #21 on: 09 January 2014, 22:08:14 »
I've always liked the Grizzly, why the Warwolf caught my attention in the first place.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #22 on: 09 January 2014, 23:41:33 »
Skulls have been a motif for the Bears for a while . . . but I will grant, the Wolves developed a lot of canine faces with MWDA.  Even the Carnivore has a bit of it.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #23 on: 10 January 2014, 00:17:36 »
I admit to being biased, having been the brain child for the MUL.

That said, with the MUL you type in the unit name, let's say the Dervish. The search result brings up every variant of the Dervish and gives you weight, BV (if a Record Sheet exists), cost (if known), what TRO/RS it is in, what Rules level, what ERA, and what intro date. The only thing the search results doesn't give is faction. All of this is in a single table format.

Sarna, on the other hand, gives you the complete entry for the Dervish. You find the original versions BV in the right hand stats column and the BV for all the other variants at the end of the text paragraph for that variant.

A further issue with Sarna, is that it is difficult to if the variant's are canon or not. Sarna has been known to document versions from canon sources that are not canon or are incorrect based on trying to decipher a non-TRO reference.

And finally, Sarna doesn't always list all the variants of the design. In the case of the Dervish, the unique version "Mauck" is not on Sarna.

Again, I fully admit to being biased. I'm a Catalyst Freelancer and I came up with the idea for the MUL.

I love the MUL, and I'm not a fan of Sarna's errors.  But that said, I find the 2 together are a great combo, because Sarna gives me a brief description of the variant where the MUL leaves me wondering what it carries.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #24 on: 10 January 2014, 00:18:43 »
I love the MUL, and I'm not a fan of Sarna's errors.  But that said, I find the 2 together are a great combo, because Sarna gives me a brief description of the variant where the MUL leaves me wondering what it carries.

Great feedback, thanks.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #25 on: 10 January 2014, 11:21:38 »
I like the Warwolf's art, but like so many mechs introduced under ClickyTech, the Warwolf suffers from a substantial design drawback.  This was touched on in the article, but to emphasize, the decision to not take advantage of the Warwolf's big engine by fixing more freezers than the minimum ten really weakens this omni's configurations.  With only 20 heat points, the Warwolf can't take advantage of the incredible efficiencies of Clan energy weapons and it suffers in comparison to other Clan designs as a result.

For example, if the Warwolf Prime shed five tons of pod mass for five more fixed freezers, those 30 heat points could support two, heat-neutral ER PPCs in place of the one Gauss cannon that the Warwolf sports.  Exchange the two tons of Gauss ammo for two more freezers (34 heat points total) and the Warwolf Prime could alpha strike its two ER PPCs and its two LRM-10s without negative heat effects.  Lose the TAG and/or AMS for another freezer or two and the Warwolf could alpha strike while moving without negative heat effects.

A nearly heat neutral alpha strike of dual ER PPCs guided by a targeting computer and 20 LRMs would be more than a match for the T-wolf, especially with the Warwolf's armor negating the T-wolf's missiles.  But without more fixed freezers, the Warwolf is forced to employ less efficient ballistic- and missile-heavy loadouts that can't really hope to measure up to the T-wolf.

Thus you create an optimized designed and why use anything else. Then we get in RL efficiency models and not battletech. I prefer a gimped designed for play (though I have made min/maxed and they are fun for a time or two.)
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #26 on: 10 January 2014, 12:36:37 »
Thus you create an optimized designed and why use anything else.

That is the point for me.  The Wolves already have an optimized design in the Timberwolf.  Unless the Clans totally lost the ability to manufacture T-wolves (unclear but possible), the Warwolf, as designed, makes little sense in-universe and no sense out-of-universe.  It loses too much of the T-wolf's firepower for a marginal increase in armor and no appreciable change in speed or cost (and a huge cost in BV).  Without changing the design as I outlined or telling me that I no longer have access to T-wolves as part of the scenario, I would choose a T-wolf over a W-wolf, every time.  (I mean, heck, if I'm really worried about the arty or LRM bombardment that supposedly drove the W-wolf's reactive armor, I'll just slap modular armor and maybe a supercharger or jump jets on my T-wolf.)

I agree that progress in military systems is not always a linear process.  But the constraints imposed by these old ClickyTech designs make too many steps backwards on too many fronts for my tastes.  I have a hard time believing that Clan scientists/techs have not realized or have forgotten the efficiencies of their energy weapons and freezers, especially after a century or so of T-wolf experience.  And I'd rather precious tournament-level TRO and RS page-counts go towards top-notch designs and not be littered with suboptimal choices like the W-wolf that I'd rarely, if ever, use.  (Though, again, I understand that there was little that could be done this go-around given the constraints imposed by the history of various defective ClickyTech designs.)

Don't get me wrong.  The W-wolf is an okay Clan heavy omni.  But given its predecessors and competition, it should have been a lot better than okay.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #27 on: 10 January 2014, 13:39:28 »
What really annoys me is that the Wolves somehow always gets cool looking totem themed Mechs, while the Bears are pretty much hit and miss.  The Bruin is IMO the best looking Ghost Bear mech, followed by some interpretations of the Kodiak.   The Karhu would look OK if it lost the skull motiff, but the rest of the Bear Mechs just seem butt ugly to me.  The Bears really need to issue a trial of possession for the Wolf design team so they can get about designing decent looking totem Mechs, someone who could take the best aspects of the Bruin, Kodiak and Karhu and put them in a decent spread of Light to Assault class Mech designs.
I really like the looks of the Karhu, that was one of my favorite pieces of art from TRO3085.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #28 on: 10 January 2014, 13:41:58 »
I really like the looks of the Karhu, that was one of my favorite pieces of art from TRO3085.

I like everything about it except the skulls, and honestly it wasn't too bad in the art and became the focal point of the miniature :(

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #29 on: 10 January 2014, 19:12:07 »
Well, seeing how the art was based on this:



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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #30 on: 10 January 2014, 19:28:20 »
I blame the Ursus.

(also Emperor Prosek)

On the Warwolf, I find a certain charm to the design, very much what happens when a Summoner and Timber Wolf love each other very much. I'm especially fond of how it goes in its own direction rather than just being more Timberwolf.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #31 on: 10 January 2014, 19:31:09 »
Typo....Wart?

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #32 on: 10 January 2014, 19:59:41 »
I agree that progress in military systems is not always a linear process.  But the constraints imposed by these old ClickyTech designs make too many steps backwards on too many fronts for my tastes.  I have a hard time believing that Clan scientists/techs have not realized or have forgotten the efficiencies of their energy weapons and freezers, especially after a century or so of T-wolf experience.  And I'd rather precious tournament-level TRO and RS page-counts go towards top-notch designs and not be littered with suboptimal choices like the W-wolf that I'd rarely, if ever, use.  (Though, again, I understand that there was little that could be done this go-around given the constraints imposed by the history of various defective ClickyTech designs.)

This.  Outside of the prime, every variant is the result of Catalyst production and not Wizkids mucking and were obviously made to be poor; there's game balance, and then there's that.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #33 on: 10 January 2014, 20:16:12 »
consider that heavy armor, reflective armor, and Ferro-lamilleor  are increasingly common in the post-jihad eras.. hardened makes units tough enough to weather the clan weapon advantage, reflective (and blue shield) negates it, and FL really cuts into it. and reflective is by far the most common.

against Reflective, and reflective+blueshield, that gauss rifle is far more effective than a pair of PPC's would be. a timberwolf up against half the republic/darkage era units would find it's weapons load nerfed.. while a warwolf is just ripping them apart..

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #34 on: 10 January 2014, 20:16:58 »
I for one do not mind the lack of fixed DHS in the Warwolf given the reduced overall pod space from the Reactive Armor and I think the increase in protection is a good direction to take things even if Ferro-Lamellor would have been better.

That said, I do feel like the designers really dropped the ball on the configurations.  The biggest headache for me is the random Jump Jets which should really be either full or absent, although there are a number of other issues with most of the configurations.  The only one I can say I really like the looks of is the A which combines a reasonable trooper arsenal with above average durability and good mobility, and the H is at least interesting even if it does have some obvious issues.


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #35 on: 10 January 2014, 21:57:50 »
consider that heavy armor, reflective armor, and Ferro-lamilleor  are increasingly common in the post-jihad eras.. hardened makes units tough enough to weather the clan weapon advantage, reflective (and blue shield) negates it, and FL really cuts into it. and reflective is by far the most common.

against Reflective, and reflective+blueshield, that gauss rifle is far more effective than a pair of PPC's would be. a timberwolf up against half the republic/darkage era units would find it's weapons load nerfed.. while a warwolf is just ripping them apart..

If half the designs in the recent TROs, that would be correct- except few did. TRO: 3145CC only had variants that used special armors, and all the record sheets in 3145LC only a quarter used special armors.  Hey, wanna know the only production design that uses the Blue shield?  The Quasimodo.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #36 on: 10 January 2014, 23:11:20 »
Yes, not sure how a Timberwolf- go with the Prime- would have problems against reflective or reactive armor designs . . . when you mention the fore (reflective) the Prime has LRMs for that . . . the latter (reactive) you have the best gun in the game, the cERLL.  FerLam, Hardened or heavy?  well you have to go through that about the same as any other set of weapons.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #37 on: 11 January 2014, 00:16:41 »
Aesthetically, I admit to preferring Evans' original work on what became the WarWolf.  The more hunched-over and forward thrusting shape, and the very lupine head, reminded me of those helmets from Stargate but also looked organically sleek and armored - and the big wide chest suggests a lot of strength.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #38 on: 11 January 2014, 02:09:30 »
against Reflective, and reflective+blueshield, that gauss rifle is far more effective than a pair of PPC's would be.

With an opponent mounting both reflective and blue shield, I agree that the Gauss is much more effective, but that's super-rare.  IIRC, the number of canon mechs mounting blue shield can be counted on less than one hand.  And I'm not sure any canon mechs mount both reflective and blue shield.

I disagree that reflective (or blue shield) alone make the Gauss _far_ more effective.  The dual ER PPCs will do the same total damage as the lone Gauss.  The lone Gauss will only have the advantage of damage grouping/decapitating.

Quote
a timberwolf up against half the republic/darkage era units would find it's weapons load nerfed.. while a warwolf is just ripping them apart..

There's no way that half of the Dark Age (or Republic) ground units mount reflective or blue shield (or both).  Maybe half the aerospace fighters mount reflective, but not half of all the ground units that the T-wolf would typically engage.  Probably not even a tenth of all those units.
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Diablo48

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #39 on: 11 January 2014, 04:48:44 »
There's no way that half of the Dark Age (or Republic) ground units mount reflective or blue shield (or both).  Maybe half the aerospace fighters mount reflective, but not half of all the ground units that the T-wolf would typically engage.  Probably not even a tenth of all those units.

And you also have to consider the quantities of older and lower tech units still in service.  I would not be surprised if fully half the units are Quickscell products or improvised from civilian equipment when you factor in the various militia formations, and even the best units are probably more than 50% old technology.


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #40 on: 11 January 2014, 04:58:46 »
Outside of the prime, every variant is the result of Catalyst production and not Wizkids mucking and were obviously made to be poor;

Nope, the configurations were the result of sheer creativity by the Ww's designer and then I added the H for oomph. I enjoyed the unconventional choices and the different feel vs the Mad Cat, so there weren't any changes made. After all, the same designer bowled me over with the revelation that the Ww was an OmniMech in the first place.


Edit, I for one genuinely enjoyed the Ww, because of following reasons.
Prime: was exactly what my research told me, ie, what had been disseminated by the MW AoD devs back in the day. The big surprise was that it was the Prime config of an Omni and I said "wow, yes please." The A is utterly overgunned, and who's going to argue with all that zzap and streak missiles? The B is undergunned and ostensibly oversinked but exudes the Thor vibe that's also been commented on in this thread, and again there's no arguing with that. The C follows the Prime's footsteps, and there is nothing fundamentally amiss in the config. Be fair, vs the Mad Cat E it consolidates 2x ERLL into 1 LPL and adds a few jj and L-AMS. Its performance is very close. My personal 2 cents on the non-max jj: on anything this big and fast, use them to clear obstacles or break LOS, use ground movement for everything else.
« Last Edit: 11 January 2014, 05:29:09 by jymset »
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #41 on: 11 January 2014, 09:53:57 »
I disagree that reflective (or blue shield) alone make the Gauss _far_ more effective.  The dual ER PPCs will do the same total damage as the lone Gauss.  The lone Gauss will only have the advantage of damage grouping/decapitating.

Incorrect.  Damage rounds down, which means that two ER PPCs will only deal a total of 14 damage, not 15.  Gauss deals more damage for the exact same tonnage and astronomically less heat once you start involving even just one layer of the reflective/blue-shield combo.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #42 on: 11 January 2014, 11:12:46 »
Great feedback, thanks.
Your welcome :)
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #43 on: 11 January 2014, 18:17:14 »
Nope, the configurations were the result of sheer creativity by the Ww's designer and then I added the H for oomph. I enjoyed the unconventional choices and the different feel vs the Mad Cat, so there weren't any changes made. After all, the same designer bowled me over with the revelation that the Ww was an OmniMech in the first place.

When did they publish record sheets outside of the original Dark Age/Technology of Destruction books?

Incorrect.  Damage rounds down, which means that two ER PPCs will only deal a total of 14 damage, not 15.  Gauss deals more damage for the exact same tonnage and astronomically less heat once you start involving even just one layer of the reflective/blue-shield combo.

Since Natasha's design can sink all it's generated heat from those guns, that's like saying the one extra hex of range on the ER PPC makes it a better long range weapon than the rifle.  The one point of difference doesn't matter much, especially when clan weapons do so much as it is.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #44 on: 11 January 2014, 18:26:35 »
The point is that if you know you're going to be encountering Reflective armored enemies, you reconfigure your OmniMech to mount a Gauss rifle instead of two ER PPCs, because they're the same tonnage and generate literally 1/30th the heat.  This simultaneously allows you to not need to mount as many heatsinks to take care of your warload - and thereby increase your warload, but also to render you completely and totally immune to heat-generating effects like plasma and infernos.  Or engine hits.

EDIT: I think I misunderstood your protest.  To which I respond it's still a point of difference, and a point of difference is still a difference.  Two ER PPCs will not deal the same damage as a Gauss Rifle against reflective armored opponents.  Far more often than a single hex, a single point of damage can seriously tilt the battle in your favor.  It's the difference between "Armor destroyed" and "Roll for critical".  Also the difference between an Elemental that's still swarming you and a dead Elemental a hundred meters away.
« Last Edit: 11 January 2014, 18:28:24 by Scotty »
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #45 on: 11 January 2014, 19:27:20 »
...The A is utterly overgunned, and who's going to argue with all that zzap and streak missiles?...

I would have to disagree with you on this one.  The A is fairly well set up for bracket firing which lets it take full advantage of all its weapons and makes it fully capable of dealing with most opponents while retaining the option to unload with additional weapons at short range if the pilot is willing to accept a heat spike.  Sure it could be cleaned up a bit, but it is perfectly solid as is and is easily the most sensible variant as far as I am concerned.


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #46 on: 11 January 2014, 19:39:03 »
The A is definitely the best of the configurations that I can see, minus the fact that it's going to have serious difficulties against reflective armored opponents.  Two mismatched Streak launchers, even without minimums, is still not near enough to deal with those.  I'd definitely appreciate it a bit more if the Streaks were combined into a single ATM-12 with ammo.  You'd keep the long range damage, even gaining a fair amount of range, and then have a withering close in punch.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #47 on: 11 January 2014, 19:56:15 »
The A is definitely the best of the configurations that I can see, minus the fact that it's going to have serious difficulties against reflective armored opponents.  Two mismatched Streak launchers, even without minimums, is still not near enough to deal with those.  I'd definitely appreciate it a bit more if the Streaks were combined into a single ATM-12 with ammo.  You'd keep the long range damage, even gaining a fair amount of range, and then have a withering close in punch.

ATMs would be a nice way to streamline the design, although it is still fine against most reflective opponents.  The beams still do decent damage, and a 75 ton, 5/8 'Mech can usually get into melee range to knock some big holes in that fragile armor.


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #48 on: 11 January 2014, 20:33:52 »
The A is definitely the best of the configurations that I can see, minus the fact that it's going to have serious difficulties against reflective armored opponents.  Two mismatched Streak launchers, even without minimums, is still not near enough to deal with those.  I'd definitely appreciate it a bit more if the Streaks were combined into a single ATM-12 with ammo.  You'd keep the long range damage, even gaining a fair amount of range, and then have a withering close in punch.
ATMs would be a better fit.

I who love another version of the H that replaced the two Heavy Lasers with another pair of energy weapons with more range or better heat profile. Two ER Large Laser paired up with the Gauss would still give the mech a decent punch with no heat trouble.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #49 on: 13 January 2014, 16:11:30 »
Incorrect.  Damage rounds down, which means that two ER PPCs will only deal a total of 14 damage, not 15.

You're right.  Thanks for the correction.  Although every point counts, I'd still say it's not as huge a difference as the other poster indicated.  And unless/until reflec/blueshield becomes a lot more common, it's not much of an issue, regardless.

The A is definitely the best of the configurations that I can see, minus the fact that it's going to have serious difficulties against reflective armored opponents.  Two mismatched Streak launchers, even without minimums, is still not near enough to deal with those.  I'd definitely appreciate it a bit more if the Streaks were combined into a single ATM-12 with ammo.  You'd keep the long range damage, even gaining a fair amount of range, and then have a withering close in punch.

The C already provides the obligatory ATM configuration, so I'd keep the A as a Streak configuration.  But the key to using Streak LRMs is to use a lot of them on a chassis that can manage the weight, and the W-wolf has the pod tonnage to pull it off.  Two Streak LRM-20s, four tons of ammo, and a large pulse laser would fit mass-wise and wouldn't hit any negative heat modifiers.  That kind of loadout would provide a lot more firepower at range, while being almost as punishing up close.  (Dunno if it works crit-wise.)

If you really want to keep the headcapper and secondary weapons, you could also go with two Streak LRM-15s, three tons of ammo, an ER PPC with TC, a few extra freezers, and still have ~5 tons left for secondary laser banks/missile racks.  (Again, dunno if it works crit-wise.)

Of course, I'd also go with regular LRMs and Artemis V over Streak LRMs and ATMs, which brings up the question of why there aren't more (any?) Artemis V configs among the Clan designs in the TRO: 3145 series.  Maybe the dates don't match up but I'd think that Scorpion-invented Artemis V would have shown up on some Wolf designs (Scorpion allies) and/or Sea Fox designs (trade) before the Homeworlds got cut off.

FWIW...
« Last Edit: 13 January 2014, 16:27:46 by Natasha Kerensky »
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #50 on: 13 January 2014, 16:46:34 »
The C already provides the obligatory ATM configuration, so I'd keep the A as a Streak configuration.  But the key to using Streak LRMs is to use a lot of them on a chassis that can manage the weight, and the W-wolf has the pod tonnage to pull it off.  Two Streak LRM-20s, four tons of ammo, and a large pulse laser would fit mass-wise and wouldn't hit any negative heat modifiers.  That kind of loadout would provide a lot more firepower at range, while being almost as punishing up close.  (Dunno if it works crit-wise.)...

The reason for the ATMs is the mixed missile racks.  The A has a relatively even blend of LRMs and SRMs as is so it can almost certainly be improved by combining them into ATMs.

Also, your configuration is really no better at range.  You get all of 5 points of extra damage, worse groupings, and significantly shorter range which will cost you some damage against Clan tech opponents.


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #51 on: 13 January 2014, 20:59:54 »
Of course, I'd also go with regular LRMs and Artemis V over Streak LRMs and ATMs, which brings up the question of why there aren't more (any?) Artemis V configs among the Clan designs in the TRO: 3145 series.  Maybe the dates don't match up but I'd think that Scorpion-invented Artemis V would have shown up on some Wolf designs (Scorpion allies) and/or Sea Fox designs (trade) before the Homeworlds got cut off.

There are definitely Artemis V designs out there. The Mad Cat III, the Turkina X, the Wulfen D (although that one would be better off without). Artemis V has a couple of glaring problems, though. Between all the ECM stuff that came out in the Jihad and the newer wave of Angel variants there's a good chance you won't get the bonus. Plus, from a design standpoint, a lot of Clan designs are too strapped for crits to use two slots on only a ton and a half of equipment.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #52 on: 13 January 2014, 22:49:09 »
The reason for the ATMs is the mixed missile racks.  The A has a relatively even blend of LRMs and SRMs as is so it can almost certainly be improved by combining them into ATMs.

I don't disagree with the logic.  I'm just pointing out that the W-wolf already has an ATM configuration and offered a better Streak configuration.

Quote
You get all of 5 points of extra damage

I get 13 more points of total potential damage:

Streak:  10 Pulse Large + 40 Streak LRMs = 50
ATM:  15 ER PPC + 10 ER Large + 12 ATM ER = 37

And actually it will be closer to 15 more points of total potential damage since the ATMs (with integral Artemis IV) have to average their damage down to ~10 on the missile hits table (and the Streaks don't).   

Quote
worse groupings

Agreed for armor penetration.  Not for critting.  And if you want the 15-point hole puncher/headcapper, there's the ER PPC/TC and dual Streak LRM-15 alternative.

Quote
significantly shorter range which will cost you some damage against Clan tech opponents

Depends highly on the mobility of the opponents and maps involved.  Doesn't matter much on maps with LOS-blocking terrain or small, non-rolling maps.  And if these two W-wolves went head-to-head in open, rolling terrain, the shorter-ranged one would close the six hex difference between 27-hex ER ATMs and 21-hex Streak LRMs in two turns at most.  Every armor point counts, but two turns of exposure to about six average potential points of ER ATM damage with long-range to-hit rolls is unlikely to change the battle.

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« Last Edit: 13 January 2014, 23:52:08 by Natasha Kerensky »
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #53 on: 21 January 2014, 12:54:23 »
I like the Alpha version.  might need to issue a trail for it.  besides it would be much cooler in CGB colors
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #54 on: 21 January 2014, 13:27:03 »
I like the Alpha version.  might need to issue a trail for it.  besides it would be much cooler in CGB colors

I am with you on this, although everything looks better in CGB colors. O0


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #55 on: 16 September 2018, 22:17:04 »
I have trouble wrapping my head around this thing.  The warloads are, aside from the A, pretty anemic for a Clan heavy mech.  It feels like the designers were having a competition to see if they could make configurations that made even less efficient use of 30 tons of pod space than the Cauldron Born Prime.

I get the comparisons to the Thor, but really, that's a problem itself given the Thor has only 2/3rds the pod space the Warwolf does.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #56 on: 17 September 2018, 09:53:35 »
A lot of them are crap b/c of the MWDA versions . . . I would like to see one embrace the Empire's mixed tech . . . give me one with a IS RAC/5 or Plasma Rifle, or other weapons that the IS builds that perform better than Clan weapons.  I also think b/c of its armor type, it might be a good mid- or short range fighter- but due to weight/crits IIRC its loads are going to look a lot like the Timberwolf.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #57 on: 17 September 2018, 13:32:33 »
Go H or go home.

Other configs are dubious IMO. The Prime's lackluster and has stupid jump jets, the A is a rummage sale config, the B should be "configuration WTF", the C would be OK but it wastes tonnage on jump jets again so meh. The H just goes for silly firepower without any unnecessary silliness, very suitable for a Clan Warrior.

Also throw it at missile and arty walls. Otherwise... eh, well, buy some Grand Summoners from Falcons.

Seriously, the Warwolf is like a Ferrari of OmniMechs.
It shares features with the classic Timber Wolf, while being sorta high-tech machine and a rare OmniTotem. Hell, the thing's described as being given to ristars and other favored individuals by the Wolf Khan. It is nothing but a status symbol 'Mech for the Wolves.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #58 on: 17 September 2018, 13:56:13 »
It looks like an Elemental and a Mad Cat made a baby.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #59 on: 17 September 2018, 14:20:30 »
I view the Warwolf pretty much the same as the Shiro. Both are 'Mechs that were very solid units in the MW:AoD game, and looked cool as hell to boot.


As a result, I want to love them both in this game as much as I did in MW:AoD. Unfortunately their stats didn't translate very well between games. Fortunately each 'Mech has a variant that's serviceable, but nothing really great.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #60 on: 17 September 2018, 14:47:22 »
A lot of them are crap b/c of the MWDA versions . . . I would like to see one embrace the Empire's mixed tech . . . give me one with a IS RAC/5 or Plasma Rifle, or other weapons that the IS builds that perform better than Clan weapons.  I also think b/c of its armor type, it might be a good mid- or short range fighter- but due to weight/crits IIRC its loads are going to look a lot like the Timberwolf.
The only MWDA version is the Prime. As a long term MWDA player we wondered for a while if it was an Omni or not.

Why go mixed tech? A Clan UAC/10 and a DHS weighs the same as a Clan RAC/5. Since these are fluffed as having a wide variety of pod layouts unique to the ristars piloting them, I'd go Pariah/Septicemia B-style, 7 IJJ, 2xLPLs, and some secondary weapons. But let's not get too far into customs.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #61 on: 17 September 2018, 15:30:25 »
I got out before the Wolf expansion really hit, so I just knew that most Omni variants of MWDA mechs relied on the dossier type information.

Mixed tech?  B/c I consider the Plasma Rifle superior to the Cannon and IIRC there is a thread in General discussing the advantages of the IS RAC over the Clan- if its as crit packed as I am remembering, that will matter.  In addition their supply of Clan tech weapons is suspect though the MSC they absorbed had a source of IS RAC/5 in addition to any salvaged.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #62 on: 17 September 2018, 17:10:13 »
I can't help but wish that the Warwolf H had used a Radical Heatsink Sytem over those coolant pods.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #63 on: 17 September 2018, 18:56:29 »
Well, now that the Wolf Empire is firmly entrenched into the IS and already experimenting with some IS designs (no, haven't read Shattered Fortress yet, no spoilers please) It's only a matter of time before new crazy configurations unless the Wolves say 'Screw it, we can do better" and make a Warwolf MKII.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #64 on: 17 September 2018, 19:33:58 »
I seriously doubt they're going to come out with a replacement chassis for an omnimech they've only just put into production.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #65 on: 17 September 2018, 20:18:12 »
I can't help but wish that the Warwolf H had used a Radical Heatsink Sytem over those coolant pods.

radical heatsink system might be too new. coolant pods go back to the 3050's, at least as prototypes in both IS and clan programs, but the RHS was only introduced by the Fedsuns in 3122. the Wolves certainly would have enough info on how to make coolant pods for use, but might not know enough about RHS to build their own yet.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #66 on: 17 September 2018, 22:43:23 »
There are a few other Clan mechs that use the system, though.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #67 on: 18 September 2018, 05:49:11 »
radical heatsink system might be too new. coolant pods go back to the 3050's, at least as prototypes in both IS and clan programs, but the RHS was only introduced by the Fedsuns in 3122. the Wolves certainly would have enough info on how to make coolant pods for use, but might not know enough about RHS to build their own yet.
I don't have my books with me, but I don't think RHS can be mounted like that in OmniMech. It fixed equipment, but I don't have my books with me so I can't check. :(
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #68 on: 18 September 2018, 06:56:44 »
I seriously doubt they're going to come out with a replacement chassis for an omnimech they've only just put into production.

They've done it before.

How many Tomahawks did they build before switching to the Tomahawk II?    ;)
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #69 on: 18 September 2018, 07:22:21 »
They've done it before.

How many Tomahawks did they build before switching to the Tomahawk II?    ;)
I hope ALOT, the original is much better in it's configurations than Tommy 2.  As much I like them both.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #70 on: 18 September 2018, 08:10:10 »
I don't have my books with me, but I don't think RHS can be mounted like that in OmniMech. It fixed equipment, but I don't have my books with me so I can't check. :(
Actually, according to IO, it CAN be pod mounted, but it is 4 tons, 3 crits, and MUST be mounted in a torso location. So you'd have to find 2 more tons to swap into an H.


I'm away from my files, but I remember there was enough crit space for the Clan RAC 5. The big benefit of the Clan version is the range brackets are the same as Clan LRMs, where the Clan medium range is almost as long as the IS long range.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #71 on: 18 September 2018, 21:09:47 »
I hope ALOT, the original is much better in it's configurations than Tommy 2.  As much I like them both.


Unfortunately the number was damn few.


Totally agree with you about many of the original configurations being better than the replacements.   :thumbsup:
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #72 on: 18 September 2018, 21:51:58 »
They've done it before.

How many Tomahawks did they build before switching to the Tomahawk II?    ;)

The Tomahawk I was never put into production, only a few prototypes were ever built.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #73 on: 20 September 2018, 15:23:39 »
The Warwolf, huh? Well, I...I'm not really sure what to say about it. I don't dislike it, that's for sure. However, I feel like I WANT to like it more than I actually do. It's the little things that get me. I'm hard pressed to think of a variant or two and say, "Oh yeah, that one is my favorite for sure." Every single one seems to have SOMETHING that bugs me. Not enough to ruin the mech, but enough to make me feel itchy when I look at the record sheet. First off, there is a whole lot for me to like about the mech. 5/8 on a 75-ton mech has already got my attention. I love fast cavalry units, and that speed is a big 'ole checkbox on the good side of the ledger. Most variants have at least one big gun, and they don't go moving it all over the chassis from variant to variant like some mechs do. It even looks pretty cool. It has some new tech, but not so much it turns into a huge gimmick.

However, there is just something about each variant that bothers me. On the prime, it's the total absence of energy weapons. Seriously? Couldn't even squeeze in a small laser somewhere? Guess no one takes a Prime very far from the dropship. The A: I don't demand absolute symmetry in my mechs, but this thing has seven weapons and 6 different types of weapons. I guess you could call this a generalist or jack-of-all-trades variant, but only because it is too scattered in the loadout to do anything else. This variant needs to hurry up and figure out what it wants to be when it grows up. The B: Where are the rest of the guns? 75 tons and all you could fit was an Ultra 10 and large laser? Yeah, sure, it's a FANCY large laser, but it still only does 10 points of damage. I feel like the jump jets should have been put on a different variant so this one could hit harder than a middle-of-the-road medium. The C: Ok, this one is pretty good, but did we really need the TarComp? There is only one gun it helps and that one is already a pulse laser. Why not fill out the full jump-jet compliment, or have a secondary weapon or something instead? I didn't actually like the one-gun TarComp on the Prime either. It's not bad, it's just...why? The H: I get it's a clan machine but did it really need to be THAT hot? I'm OK with it running a little hot so you have a use for the coolant pods, but you basically need one each turn you fire both your lasers. It wouldn't be as big a deal if you had some other options once the pods are gone, but the mech only has three guns. Either you fire one laser and sink a bunch of extra heat, or you fire both and go rocketing up the heat scale. There is no riding the edge of the curve in this mech. You either blow past it, or don't come near it. I'm OK with mechs that have too many weapons but not enough heat to use them all, as long as I have choices about what to do with the heat sinking available...but this mech only has three guns and only two generate any real heat. There isn't much in the way of choices or options there.

It isn't that any of the variants are out and out bad, they are just quirky in ways that don't make a whole lot of sense to me, or that bother me. I don't need every mech to be optimized, but I do prefer it when they are bad for a good reason. Like the Hunchback 5N. It is disgustingly over-heat sinked. It can take two engine hits, run, and alpha strike, and still not accumulate any heat. There are a wide variety of ways it could better use tonnage than all those extra heat sinks. However, it is fluffed as simply replacing the existing single heat sinks in the 4G model with doubles. There was no fancy re-engineering of the chassis, they just pulled the old sinks out and slapped new ones in because it was all brand new and no one knew exactly what they were doing. It is bad, but bad for a good reason, or at least an interesting one. The Warwolf's less than optimal choices just don't work for me. They don't seem to have a cool fluff explanation, and I'm hard pressed to come up with fluff explanations on my own that I'm satisfied with.

Also, the mini stands up way too tall! It doesn't have that crouched stance from the art, and I haven't yet felt the urge to cut apart the legs on one and try to 'fix' it!

Perhaps the strangest part is that I actually love this thing in Alpha Strike. Once you meld all the stats together and hide some of the rough edges behind abstraction, this thing turns into a real solid heavy. Virtually every complaint I have disappears when you switch to Alpha Strike. Move 10"/6"j is still annoying, but other than that it's all good. I guess that is really the heart of how I feel: I like the summary of the mech better than the details of the mech!

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #74 on: 20 September 2018, 17:48:47 »
Prime: 16 turns of gauss fire and 12 turns of LRMs isn't exactly running low on ammo (and I note with some amusement a one-gun targeting computer here, too. ;) )

A: ER PPC + ER Large + Streak LRM-10 at long range (+5 heat on a run if the Streak locks, +1 if it doesn't), switch to Big Energy + 2x MPL + Streak SRM-6 at short range (mixing up the ER Large and ER PPC depending on whether the target is at exactly 8 hexes or if it's 7 or closer or heat permitting; -2 on a run with the ER Large, +1 with the ER PPC).  It may have a bunch of guns, but it's not struggling to get them to work together.

B: ER Pulse Lasers are bad, but three 10-point hits isn't anything to ignore and it runs cool even on a jumping alpha (-1).  It has enough ammo to actually use the UAC/10, too.

C: LPL + TC backed up by a pair of big ATM racks is a match made in heaven.

H: Firing pattern is 2-1-1.  Closing, use the Gauss.  When you get in range of the iHLLs, fire just one until you get to medium range.  You've got Coolant Pods for the first couple shots, then after that you drop the Gauss and fire both iHLLs (+12 heat), then leave one out but put the Gauss back in (-5; down to +7) for a couple turns, getting down to +2 after two turns.  Save the two-shot for a sure thing and you'll make anything hurt.  The Supercharger will keep you moving relatively quickly even when you're running hot.

I actually really like the Warwolf, conceptually, because the Reactive armor makes it insufferably good against missiles and artillery, which is a significant portion of what one of these things is going to encounter on the close.  Most of the armaments function very well at close range, and the one that doesn't is full of meaty hits to open up holes.  It's a commander's ride, designed to keep them in action even against hostile artillery - and the Wolves can expect to face a lot of that between the FWL (known for its use of LRMs and combined arms), the Republic (Centaur BA, anyone?), the Lyrans, and the Falcons.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #75 on: 23 September 2018, 08:14:23 »
Are there any quirks assigned to the Warwolf?

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #76 on: 23 September 2018, 08:19:48 »
Are there any quirks assigned to the Warwolf?

Ruger
Nope.

I check TRO: 3145 & Clan PDF version, and BattleMech Manual.  No design quirks assigned.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warwolf
« Reply #77 on: 23 September 2018, 08:33:47 »
Nope.

I check TRO: 3145 & Clan PDF version, and BattleMech Manual.  No design quirks assigned.

Yeah, I had the TRO and BMM, but don't have the PDF...wasn't sure if there was anything else out there that might have mentioned it...

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who