’Mech of the Week: LCT-** Locust

[Hellraiser]

IIRC the Spider was introduced as a Locust replacement. But it is 30 tons instead of 20 and had no Machine Guns in the base model, so I don't know how successful it was in that role.

Negative.  It was designed for SLDF Commando Forces.

Wasn't the Cicada also advertised as a "Bigger, better" replacement for the Locust?

The Cicada was made as a replacement, yes, though i think the results are a bit questionable. The Spider... not sure about that, though it certainly matches the capabilities and more.

Not a replacement, per se.  The SLDF didn't ask for it.  It was designed to compete with, be better than, & hopefully steal an SLDF contract away from Bergan who's Locust was THE Recon Mech for the SLDF.

[garhkal]

Do people prefer the locust being the old school 8-12 straight fusion engine beast, or the much faster 12-18 xl engine version we got in some of the later TROs?

[Giovanni Blasini]

I see room for both.

The standard engine 8/12 Locust, in, for example, the LCT-1V or LCT-1E layouts, are just about the most durable 20-ton bug 'Mechs possible, and move fast enough to generate to make them very tough to hit.

With that said, though, faster is sometimes better, and the super fast Locusts bring other options to the table, in that they can often get outside practical weapons range entirely when they lose initiative.

[Hellraiser]

Agreed, room for both.

I always wanted a basic 8/16 SFE+MASC in 3050 & didn't get it.
The Royal that stays 8/12 but goes XL is not very durable at all & pops easily.
If you are going to go XL then I like the 9/18 5W2 for its loadout
Meanwhile the super fast XL models going 12+ are so much fun to Charge someone with  }:)

[garhkal]

Agreed, room for both.

I always wanted a basic 8/16 SFE+MASC in 3050 & didn't get it.
The Royal that stays 8/12 but goes XL is not very durable at all & pops easily.
If you are going to go XL then I like the 9/18 5W2 for its loadout
Meanwhile the super fast XL models going 12+ are so much fun to Charge someone with  }:)

Yea having one of the SFE ones with MASC would have been sweet.  Give me a few and i can make a pair up.

[Leozack]

Having played around with several flavours of Locust in Megamek I am inclined to agree with those that say "Both". The standard Locust is fast enough to generate a decent to-hit mod, and stands a chance of surviving to leave the battle in a hurry if it takes a torso hit. The faster XL versions - having experimented with the WoB one - are more fragile but can avoid being in a position to get hit at all more effectively.

I wanted to like the Royal version, but it felt like a bad compromise between both - getting the fragility, but not the "just don't be there" power of the faster versions. But then, I used Locusts to flank and scavenge opportunistically on the battlefield - so the ability to cover half the playing area a turn turn is always a nice thing to have.

Karl

[mbear]

Yea having one of the SFE ones with MASC would have been sweet.  Give me a few and i can make a pair up.

Or MASC and Supercharger. ;)

[Hellraiser]

I wanted to like the Royal version, but it felt like a bad compromise between both - getting the fragility, but not the "just don't be there" power of the faster versions.

I figure that they were going for a version that would be a predecessor for the eventual downgrade to the 1E.
Me, I wish they would have gone with Standard Mediums in the arms, while still going SPL's for the AI & lack of ammo, but then used that other 2 tons & a 1/2 ton of armor go pump up the Engine to 10/15 & add MASC.
It would have worked as a 1E Predecessor & give the Clans a profile to base the FireMoth on.
3ML & 2 SPL moving 10/20 would have made for a nasty little recon/strike mech.

[Giovanni Blasini]

I'd almost have rather seen the LCT-1Vb keep to an 8/12 XL: with Endo Steel and 4 tons of Ferro, you have the mass for 5 medium lasers and 2 SPLs.

[Hellraiser]

Yeah but you don't have the Crits for it unless you give up the DHS which then makes all the lasers loose their love.

[Valtech]

I will admit I'm one of those who think long and hard on the the pros/cons  of old school 8-12 straight fusion
engine vs the much faster 12-18 xl engine version in some of the later TROs. You ARE gunna take those
hits...even if you go fast. If I have to accept less protection on an already constrained platform...and thus
less survivability...the little extra speed and firepower may not be enough for me.

[Leozack]

I figure that they were going for a version that would be a predecessor for the eventual downgrade to the 1E.
Me, I wish they would have gone with Standard Mediums in the arms, while still going SPL's for the AI & lack of ammo, but then used that other 2 tons & a 1/2 ton of armor go pump up the Engine to 10/15 & add MASC.
It would have worked as a 1E Predecessor & give the Clans a profile to base the FireMoth on.
3ML & 2 SPL moving 10/20 would have made for a nasty little recon/strike mech.

That would have been a better option - one of the other problems with the -1Vb is that lack of reach meaning for all its speed, if you do use it offensively it has to get closer than it really wants to.

Karl

[garhkal]

I will admit I'm one of those who think long and hard on the the pros/cons  of old school 8-12 straight fusion
engine vs the much faster 12-18 xl engine version in some of the later TROs. You ARE gunna take those
hits...even if you go fast. If I have to accept less protection on an already constrained platform...and thus
less survivability...the little extra speed and firepower may not be enough for me.

Then compromise and go 10-15 with a light engine..

[Intermittent_Coherence]

I remember the write-up from a magazine in the 90's proclaiming this machine o be "so cheap you can read it in the name - low-cost." O:-)

[SteelRaven]

I remember the write-up from a magazine in the 90's proclaiming this machine o be "so cheap you can read it in the name - low-cost." O:-)

The #1 reason why the mech survives, you can splurge on a Scarecrow or a Gun and still afford to back it up with a couple of Locust. 

[Giovanni Blasini]

That reminds me. Know where I had a blast with the Locust?  The first MechWarrior PC game.

Put the rest of your lance in bigger, scarier 'Mechs.  Point at enemy.  Drive a Locust yourself, flank the enemy, and leg the enemy 'Mechs one at a time.

[Wrangler]

That reminds me. Know where I had a blast with the Locust?  The first MechWarrior PC game.

Ha! Yeah, i remember playing with the original MW1. In the user manual for the game, there was a group photo of the programmers for the game and the Locust photobombed the picture on it's own accord.  ;D

[Valtech]

Lets face it...at the end of the day the Locust is a cheap "attrition" unit. Cost is
low enough you can add one just to round out things. Free Locust with every
purchase of twelve or more....mechwarrior comes separately 8-)

[Nahuris]

That's pretty much true with any of the bugs, but the Locust is the toughest of the 20 ton bugs...... and pretty effective up to about 30 to 35 tons.
Really, the Locust is rare, as a light, in that it combines enough of all 3 categories of speed, armor, and firepower .... that it effectively acts above it's weight... just not above it's weight class.

Nahuris

[Giovanni Blasini]

That's one of the reasons why I was always surprised the first Crescent Hawks Locust mod never got canonized: just swap the machine guns and ammo for a medium laser in each arm.

[SteelRaven]

That's one of the reasons why I was always surprised the first Crescent Hawks Locust mod never got canonized: just swap the machine guns and ammo for a medium laser in each arm.

Didn't that game also have a killer Commando variant that was never canonized? 

[mbear]

Didn't that game also have a killer Commando variant that was never canonized?

Yes, it swapped the missile launchers for more lasers. But that's a topic for another thread. ;)

[Valtech]

"Really, the Locust is rare, as a light, in that it combines enough of all 3 categories of speed, armor, and firepower .... that
it effectively acts above it's weight... just not above it's weight class. "

Fully agree and I always found it a great "training" Mech at the 3025 level for getting newbies started. Some protection
and some speed to help them out of trouble...two different weapons....no jump jets makes you learn to pay attention to
terrain too 8-) You just need to keep the forces balanced for games like that though...

[mbear]

...why the HELL does that thing have TSM, when the most heat it can generate in a turn is 13?

According to Interstellar Operations the prototype TSM used by the CCAF didn't require a specific heat level to work. It just worked all the time, but didn't offer the +1 MP. Just doubled damage from physical attacks and doubled cargo lifting capability.

[glitterboy2098]

According to Interstellar Operations the prototype TSM used by the CCAF didn't require a specific heat level to work. It just worked all the time, but didn't offer the +1 MP. Just doubled damage from physical attacks and doubled cargo lifting capability.

yep. the TSM'd locust was based on a line from the 2nd Warriors of kerensky book about how the CapCon had continued to use the 4th succession war "flawed" TSM despite the weakness to the 'green smoke'.. using it on recon mechs on airless worlds and the like.
though the implication in both the Warrior Series and the WoK book was that said prototype TSM did offer better speed.

[Atarlost]

I think they had to retcon that out because the Clans didn't have green smoke and even if they had the formula it it would violate their honor code.  If it gave a speed boost the IS would have used it extensively to neutralize the Clan speed advantage on fronts where the Clans were actually following their own rules. 

[Weirdo]

No retcon, prototype TSM has rules in IntOps. No movement bonus, but it does double melee damage and lifting ability without needing to heat up.

There are also hefty maintenance penalties to units with TSM-X, which would explain why it was never deployed against the Clans. When guerrilla warfare is one of your best bets to fight a new foe, equipment that turns half your mechs into hangar queens is the last thing you want your troops using.

[glitterboy2098]

the reason i said 'implication' was because we never got a definitive statement about what the 4th succession war TSM actually did.. the implication, as i said, was better speed, but those comments all came from Justin while he was trying to get the chancellor to back his operation*.. long before they had any experience with the stuff. given it was Justin that said it, and the whole thing was a ploy by Hanse Davion, i wouldn't be surprised if every claim he made was false, meant to sell up a technology that would, had it been used in more widespread fashion, cripple the CCAF..



*where he made claims about the new myomer allowing mechs to carry more armor and weapons.. which sounds like a speed boost that would allow the new designs to mount smaller engines, thus freeing up tonnage for other things.

[Banzai]

I think they had to retcon that out because the Clans didn't have green smoke and even if they had the formula it it would violate their honor code.  If it gave a speed boost the IS would have used it extensively to neutralize the Clan speed advantage on fronts where the Clans were actually following their own rules.

In the "Blood of Kerensky" books, Waterly instructed Focht to inform the Clans about the original TSM as well as the gas and to supply them with the method to produce it.

[Atarlost]

People who consider shooting someone they can't see themselves dishonorable have to first decide to keep the formula for a weapon designed to deny them an honorable fight that creates smoke to hide behind as a side effect.  Then they have to decide to actually stockpile it, then they have to decide to distribute it to their forces, then the commander on the spot has to decide to use it. 

Some Clans at least would refuse to touch the stuff and since they nicely keep to their own invasion corridors PTSM mechs could be used against those Clans exclusively.  If PTSM was ever worth using.