Author Topic: TRO Succession Wars and Harmony Gold (Read 147498 times)

Bedwyr · « **on:** 28 February 2018, 00:04:21 »

You may continue your discussion here.

A few points:
- The mods will intervene on matters of moderation.
- Mod directives from the previous thread still hold.
- I'm issuing a new directive regarding the Robotech Palladium news from this evening as off topic except where it intersects with the lawsuit. Please start a new topic if you want to discuss that separately (which honestly should go in Off Topic).

- Colored beemers are barred from posting here out of a concern for propriety.
- This does not apply to PTBs.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 February 2018, 00:09:13 »

Any word on the documents released today?

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 February 2018, 00:12:49 »

Reposting the relevant links and notes at the moment:

Harmony Gold: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/5408625/83/harmony-gold-usa-inc-v-harebrained-schemes-llc/

PGI: ANSWER to 83 Amended Complaint and Affirmative Defenses with JURY DEMAND by Piranha Games, Inc..(Meiklejohn, Paul) (awaiting documents)

HBS/HHI: ANSWER to83 Amended Complaint (Second) and Affirmative Defenses by Harebrained Holdings, Inc., Harebrained Schemes LLC, Jordan Weisman.(Corning, James) (awaiting documents)

Harmony Gold v Tatsunoko arbitration: https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=13613987763006822039&hl=en&as_sdt=6&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr (amended judgement confirming award)

And for clarification, we don't yet have the details as to why Harmony Gold terminated its relationship and license with Palladium Games. Speculatively, it may be related to the arbitration's determination that Big West, and not Tatsunoko, had the rights to the Macross character and mecha designs, and as such Tatsunoko could not have licensed that to HG, who could not have licensed the production of miniatures (and the various sourcebooks with art) to Palladium. That is possible, but not yet known, and is only stated here to clarify any misinterpretation as to its validity later. It is simply speculation and nothing more.

Hoping someone can get 84 and 85 from PACER and post them up for the rest of us!

Edit: Also a clarification: the Tatsunoko, Big West, and other such legal actions only cover the Macross properties and their connection to Robotech as The Macross Saga. The second and third arcs, Southern Cross and New Generation (Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross and Genesis Climber MOSPEADA in Japan) are not covered under the terms of these lawsuits nor is there any SC/II artwork or 'character' designs used by Battletech.

Liam's Ghost · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 February 2018, 00:22:53 »

The only remotely on topic thing about the Robotech Tactics news I wonder is if Harmony Gold refrained from offering a renewal to Palladium because they're worried that it might open them up to lawsuits in the future, now that it is increasingly apparent that they didn't have rights to those images in the first place.

Bedwyr · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 February 2018, 00:24:31 »

Quote from: Liam's Ghost on 28 February 2018, 00:22:53

The only remotely on topic thing about the Robotech Tactics news I wonder is if Harmony Gold refrained from offering a renewal to Palladium because they're worried that it might open them up to lawsuits in the future, now that it is increasingly apparent that they didn't have rights to those images in the first place.

Well...

Conduct yourselves accordingly. :)

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 February 2018, 00:34:37 »

if it is, my contacts in Palladium didn't know about it. (i am rather more bummed over the loss of the RPG than RTT.. i was working with one of their writers on Ghost Fleet. we had such grand ideas and plans..)

Liam's Ghost · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 February 2018, 00:36:24 »

Quote from: glitterboy2098 on 28 February 2018, 00:34:37

if it is, my contacts in Palladium didn't know about it. (i am rather more bummed over the loss of the RPG than RTT.. i was working with one of their writers on Ghost Fleet. we had such grand ideas and plans..)

I doubt we'd ever know in any definite capacity. Oh well, on to other wild speculations...

YingJanshi · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 February 2018, 01:07:22 »

Back to thread watching...

JPArbiter · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 February 2018, 01:11:19 »

The thing from PACER I am curious about is that the defendants have seemingly changed course from seeking dismissal to moving to a jury trial, at least if i understand the docket header correctly.

I am curious about the ahift in strategy, but need the full document to appreciate

victor_shaw · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 February 2018, 01:16:19 »

Quote from: Bedwyr on 28 February 2018, 00:24:31

Well...

Conduct yourselves accordingly. :)

My apologies I tend to get heated when Palladium is involved.

Back on topic, I don't think the loss of licence has anything to do with the lawsuit so that's probably a dead horse in this thread.

NeonKnight · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 February 2018, 01:17:24 »

Pinging for following

pensiveswetness · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 February 2018, 02:07:42 »

Meanwhile, Back in Tower City where Le Bron has been seen in drag, carrying a bag full of Unseen Miniatures that, if he is allowed to get on the Red Line, gets off at W.98th, takes the #26 Detroit Ave bus BACK to Tower City, he just might impact the miniature's value of Unseen miniatures by a factor of 3,000. Assuming he can get his wy-fi working at the Q...

What? Station Keeping is too boring to thread ping...

marauder648 · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 February 2018, 02:21:54 »

I'll happily admit I don't understand the Legalese but this (I think?) is looking good...right?

monbvol · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 February 2018, 02:38:22 »

This is a most interesting development for sure.

The timing just seems too good to not get a bit excited.

But I am just rational enough to know RTT going down in flames likely does not have anything to do with the current court case. Far too likely it has to do with Harmony Gold realizing that Kevin over promises and under delivers.

Phobos101 · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 February 2018, 03:53:37 »

Quote from: monbvol on 28 February 2018, 02:38:22

This is a most interesting development for sure.

The timing just seems too good to not get a bit excited.

But I am just rational enough to know RTT going down in flames likely does not have anything to do with the current court case. Far too likely it has to do with Harmony Gold realizing that Kevin over promises and under delivers.

Pure speculation, but my guess is that HG look for "set and forget" investments for the RT IP, requiring minimum maintenance and expenditure, ideally being able to sit back pick up some royalties and Palladium, in the current climate, are too high maintenance for their needs, especially considering the ticking clock on HG's licence.
Seems to me this is just smart business by HG not getting in too deep (by bailing out PB) when the opportunity for returns is so limited.

TL;DR: Yeah, it's probably not directly related to the court case, but is still another detail in the broader picture.

elf25s · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 February 2018, 04:24:09 »

just curious i seem to recall that pb had a bit of an issue with money to tune of 250k? was it some one within company that took of with it? it was about just before or after the rt minigame was released?dont remember details but pb had some argument over the license at the time after the incident. may that had effect on current reason why hoardmegold is dropping pb? sorry i had not been following the story and it had been awhile.

Skyth · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 February 2018, 04:52:20 »

Pinged to watch the thread.

Wrangler · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 February 2018, 06:51:18 »

Tagging to keep tabs on things. Thanks guys

Deadborder · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 February 2018, 06:56:55 »

Quote from: elf25s on 28 February 2018, 04:24:09

just curious i seem to recall that pb had a bit of an issue with money to tune of 250k? was it some one within company that took of with it? it was about just before or after the rt minigame was released?dont remember details but pb had some argument over the license at the time after the incident. may that had effect on current reason why hoardmegold is dropping pb? sorry i had not been following the story and it had been awhile.

The answers are: long, long before Robotech: Tactics and beyond the scope of this thread

The_Livewire · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 February 2018, 07:35:48 »

Not a lawyer, but if I'm understanding it almost sounds like "We want a dismissal, if we don't get it, we want a jury trial," quiaff?

pheonixstorm · « **Reply #20 on:** 28 February 2018, 08:51:18 »

84 & 85 are just like the answers to the original complaint filed at the beginning of the case. With this out of the way we will probably see another set of motions for dismissal or summary judgement.

The big question is going to be how much has changed from the initial answer filed with the original (and FAC) complaint. I wonder if the PDFs will be up on courtlistener soon or will this be another set of docs that require payment. Should hopefully know in a few days I guess.

abou · « **Reply #21 on:** 28 February 2018, 08:54:48 »

I'm just going to sign up now. For $5 a document, I can swing it. I imagine if you were a professional, getting the monthly subscription would be the way to go.

Edit:

Here we go.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=110GWFwE1dkSEKT7jmli5ytS46LtFrooZ
https://drive.google.com/open?id=18rwN_fv1uFwX4Q7010m1mdx2p1IDYlc2

abou · « **Reply #22 on:** 28 February 2018, 09:18:52 »

I don't remember if this was in the answer to the first complaint, but just came across this in the PGI defense:

Quote

Response to Paragraph No. 16
Piranha denies that the warrior robots images shown in the table in paragraph 16 are
“depicted in the Robotech copyright registrations owned by Harmony Gold.” The copyright
registrations listed in paragraph 15 and attached as Exhibit A of Harmony Gold’s SAC are
directed to motion pictures. The images in the table in paragraph 16 appear to have been copied
from a book titled Macross: Perfect Memory, the copyright of which is registered to Big West
and others, not Harmony Gold or Tatsunoko. Piranha lacks knowledge or information sufficient
to form a belief as to the truth of the remaining allegations of paragraph 16 of the SAC and, on
that basis, denies them.

I love that.

Tai Dai Cultist · « **Reply #23 on:** 28 February 2018, 10:31:03 »

Quote

Piranha denies that Harmony Gold owns the copyrights to any of the warrior robots
identified above.

It's glorious to see the legalspeak equivalent of "You gabbaheys don't even HAVE the copyrights!".

sadlerbw · « **Reply #24 on:** 28 February 2018, 11:42:31 »

Haven't read them myself yet, but here are the most recent responses from PGI and HBS:

Docket 84 - https://1drv.ms/b/s!ApDHaN8p702HgiOJsLmXZedQCP8h

Docket 85 - https://1drv.ms/b/s!ApDHaN8p702HgiLDquuojxdYmJ-Y

There is a Docket 86, but it has no substantive information in it. Someone just screwed up a signature page and 86 fixes that. Not gonna pay for that one!

EDIT: Ok, went ahead and read through them real fast. PGI isn't backing down. They are pushing the 'you don't have the rights you claim to' angle. HBS basically claims the same thing, but without as much detail as PGI's response. PGI's response, #84, is the more interesting one. I will not at all be surprised to see PGI re-submit a motion for dismissal.

Maingunnery · « **Reply #25 on:** 28 February 2018, 12:18:31 »

It will be interesting to see how the case will eventually end.

klarg1 · « **Reply #26 on:** 28 February 2018, 13:46:26 »

Prior to this ongoing discussion, I don't think I would have expected the detailed back and forth of US civil litigation to really capture my interest and attention.

Who knew?

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #27 on:** 28 February 2018, 14:22:14 »

Quote

1. Plaintiff Harmony Gold U.S.A., Inc., is a California corporation with its
principal place of business in Los Angeles, California.

ANSWER: The Harebrained Defendants lack knowledge or information sufficient to
form a belief about the truth of the allegations in this paragraph, and on that basis deny them.

"We don't even legally acknowledge your existence." WOW.

Sartris · « **Reply #28 on:** 28 February 2018, 14:23:31 »

Quote from: ANS Kamas P81 on 28 February 2018, 14:22:14

"We don't even legally acknowledge your existence." WOW.

This is a level of petty I can get behind

ColBosch · « **Reply #29 on:** 28 February 2018, 14:50:37 »

Thanks for restarting the thread, Bedwyr. I agree that I expect PGI to issue another Motion to Dismiss.