And you are missing the whole point of where it is at... It's under "Questionable", and not under the Outworld Alliance entry, because we have no proof it did or didn't exist... It's not singled out for special treat. I placed it where all the others that I couldn't find canon source material as to whether or not they existed, and stated that I needed canon proof to either promote them to confirmed or knock them out all together...
That canon proof would come in the form of "Ravenna Electonics was founded in <date after 3025>", or "Ravenna Electronic was build to start production of the -1A9", or "Ravenna Electronics was formed after the <Fourth Succession War, before the Jihad, Name your event>"
As for using the newer date stuff, to make a list of possible companies that might have existed, nothing is wrong with that... Because I never said because it existed in 3067 in DID exist in 3025, I said that because it existed in 3067 it COULD HAVE existed in 3025.
1. - That Raveena Electronics existed at all, when no source has indicated they do
We have no founding date (or description), so we have no proof they did or didn't exist at this time... But we do know they existed later.... And while I'm not making the assumption they do exist in 3025, you are making the assumption they don't, based on a absence of evidence.
2. - That they were able to license the design from Wells Technologies, when Wells was only surviving on exporting the already rather undesirable Charger chassis.
So it's not possible that a company that is struggling to survive, to license their product to an area that has only one facility capable producing Assault class Mechs, so they could live off the licensing fees? Because to my way of thinking, if you have Atlases, it's easy to dismiss the Charger, but when the best you product is the Merlin (and 20 tonners after that), I think the Charger might look pretty good.
3. - That for some reason, the license from Wells did not include 2A2 and 1A9 Chargers.
The original license from Wells could not have included those models, because as Baldur Mekorig pointed out, Acording to the MUL, the -1A9 model was designed in 3034, and the -2A2 in 3064... How do you license something that wasn't even designed yet... But it doesn't mean that a desperate company like Wells wouldn't have agreed to letting them have any upgrades in the future. Some kind of "upgrade" clause in the contract.
4. - That they subsequently would have to license those models from LAW
Maybe they were on good terms. Maybe there was an upgrade clause. Maybe Ravenna Electronics was really interested in getting their hands on a better model, and with the Clans breathing down everyones neck, LAW felt it was a good idea to have as many Chargers as possible being produced and ready for war. Maybe LAW just wanted the money...
We don't know if/why... But what we do know, is that at some point LAW was willing to license the -1A9 and the -2A2. Why is it so hard to believe that a struggling Wells would have licensed the -1A1? I'm not saying they did, I'm saying they could have.
You'll have to excuse me for being incredulous, but that's a rather large number of assumptions to make to support an idea that we have no evidence for.
I'm not the one making assumptions... I'm the one asking for some kind of canon proof, one way or the other, that will definitively say yes or no... What I'm getting, is people saying that because it wasn't listed in an earlier piece, it didn't exist, which does happen to be a speculation, because there is no proof it wasn't an omission...
Does Earthwerks on Grand Base make Archers in 3025? They make them in 3067. There's no source that says they didn't make them in 3025. We can very easily make this same assumption about a whole host of 'Mech chassis produced later and just arbitrarily roll them back into time periods where they were never mentioned, but that seems to be ignoring the weight of canon that infers they didn't exist.
Do you see Archers on my Capellan Confederation - Earthwerks Incorporated - Grand Base entry?
Better yet... What do you see in the entry for Capellan Confederation - Earthwerks Incorporated - Tikonov? You see that HL:CC 3025 - states it exists, but no description of facility or production. You see that TRO:3039 states that they build CTF-1X Cataphract. And you see "Notes – HL:CC suggests that the Tikonov facility may have produced Thunderbolts and Vindictors, while Sarna.net suggest that at one time it may have produced the Thunderbolt, Thug, Griffin, Stinger, Bombardier, Vindicator. Clarification is need as to what it actually produced in 3025."...
So I have evidence that they may have created that whole lost of Mechs, but I'm still asking for clarification... Including for the Thunderbolts and Vindicators... Because I don't have and proof of what they made... And I'm not making any assumptions either.
Canon sourcebooks don't make a habit of spelling out what doesn't exist, because until it's mentioned, it didn't exist for the authors. Surely you understand that.
I'm not asking if Bob's Mech-a-lot Factory might have existed on Planet X... And then saying because the authors haven't said it doesn't, that it does... I'm asking for proof of when a canon company, on a canon world, making a canon product was founded and if in/before 3025, what did they produce?... Surely you understand that those are not the same question.
Compiling a list of what is confirmed in production in 3067 and then assuming it applies to 3025 isn't a particularly accurate way to go about things.
And by no means it that what I did... I compiled a list from as many sources between 3025 and 3054 as I could find, then presented the raw data (including a list of suspect companies) for others to help me whittle out any inappropriate companies that may have gotten through my research...
I also never once said that this was "Objectives Raid - 3025"... If anything, I've tried to make it clear that this is nothing more then a list that I need help on, which will become my personal Objectives Raid - 3025, which more then likely no one but me will ever see.
I've tried very hard not to make any assumptions in this list (other then notes to self), because people can use the list as a basis for their own universe, without having to swim through any of my own prejudices.
My intention is not to discredit your work.
I never thought you were... And since this is nothing more then a list, with citations mostly noted, I'm not even sure you could... It's not that kind of project.
It just feels arbitrary that only Raveena's Charger line is singled out for this subjective benefit of the doubt, and not the dozens of production lines of classic 'Mechs across the Inner Sphere in the 3060s and 3070s.
Again... Ravenna isn't being singled out... It is one of many in my "Questionable" list. And I wouldn't accept absence of proof being proof of absence for any of them... It is only being singled out by people who insist on making the assumption that it didn't exist, because there is no canon proof that it did...
Lets take FS – New Syrtis - Johnston Industries as an example... I knocked it out (although I didn't strike through it) because I found a reference that it wasn't built until after 4th Succession War... Adequate canon proof of when it was built and that it couldn't have existed in 3025... But no one has produced that kind of proof for Ravenna Electronics...
Not only that, but people seem to equate "Didn't produce the Charger" with "didn't exist"... Because that is another assumption...
So maybe Ravenna Electronics did make the Charger. Maybe there relationship started out as a producer of Dalban HiRez Targeting and Tracking components... Maybe they sold them to Wells in 3025, and then LAW afterwards. Maybe that relationship was what prompted LAW to license the Charger later on... Again, not saying this happened, but we don't know how the relationship started... But that would mean that Ravenna Electronics was in business in 3025, making military hardware, and would go on my list... It's why the "Product" is "Possible". Because I am willing to accept that they may not have produced the product I listed, but they may have produced something else just as important (like the T&T components)...
Currently, I don't believe there is any evidence, one way or the other, to either promote Ravenna to the Outworld Alliance entry, or knock it completely off the list... Maybe in the future, someone with authority will write some piece of canon information/story, that gives us some kind of founding date... Then we'll have our answer...
Until then, saying it didn't exist, does just as big of a disservice as saying that it did... Because neither side has any canon proof (other then absence of proof)
Caz