Aurigan Reach

[victor_shaw]

So everyone is skirting around this question but to be blunt is the Aurigan Reach canon or not.
It would seem that the general avoidance of the area by the core game is an attempt by Catalyst to save that question until it needs to be answered.
Or is it Catalyst giving HBS enough rope to succeed or hing themselves with before making a decisions?

[Empyrus]

We might get an answer soon.
Upcoming releases thread has Touring the Stars: Regis Roost, a system that is part of Aurigan Coalition in HBS BattleTech, later part of Taurian Concordant in normal BattleTech.
Of course, it could skip that part of the world's history and thus leave things in limbo.

I'm thinking they will avoid mentioning Auriga but also won't contradict it either.
The thing is, IMO, that if Aurigan Coalition is a real nation in tabletop BT-verse, then there's awful lot of history to be rewritten or the place needs to be otherwise explained somewhere. Even minor nations will play part in local geo... stellarpolitics. Not mentioning it doesn't preclude its existence but keeps things simple.

[Adrian Gideon]

It’s not yet, no, but it could.

And if it becomes canon we won’t be coy with history. Parts—small parts—will have to be rewritten. No “oops, ComStar left those parts out,” it’ll be a retcon.

[glitterboy2098]

personally, i would prefer that the videogame, as well as MWO, be treated like the old video games and the cartoon. as fictionalized accounts of events. which frankly, fits well, because it lets you minimize the setting breaking aspects, like having so many mechs in a remote part of the periphery, and some of the oddities (like the Argo and its many illegal or outright impossible features)

the reason i think this should be applied to MWO as well is so that we don't have to shoehorn the "hero mechs' into regular BT.. when said mechs often play merry hell with the technology progression and availability if they are 100% canon. i mean, you have characters from the 3rd succession war running around in hyper customized machines packing XL's, Ferrofib, DHS, and pulse lasers. and they've been branching out into inventing their own mechs, which don't exist in Catalyst's game.

if these are treated as in setting fiction the way the Batletech Cartoon was, such digressions actually make sense.. the Aurigan Reach can be a small periphery realm.. but there was a holovid made loosely based on a political dispute there that threw out accuracy for drama. the MWO hero mech stuff becomes just part of the immortal warrior series or similar, where such over the top machines actually fit, since the technology involved in that show is only loosely based on BT's reality (unless BT actually has 'photon swords" in the succession wars  ;) ) and the characters are larger than life.

this way you can preserve the better aspects of the video game's setting, while also not having to do mental gymnastics to fit those things that just don't work with the immense amounts of stuff we already have.

[Elmoth]

Agreed with glitter it. The aurigan reach being a short lived realm being a fact but the story being a soap opera and military melodrama would fit well. If you read a story book you would see that the unit was composed of 6 light mechs, but in the holovid they use Atlas II for recon because they sell better. I could live with that easily.

[Icerose20]

It will probably be canon mostly.  They did it with the Battletech cartoon.   The two biggest thing they would need to addrees is the time period between the 3050s to the 3070s, and how the Trinity Alliance would work with someone inbetween them.  the New Colony Region is for the most part is to the west of the Coalition.  And the loss of some of the Star systems along the Periphery border could be one that wanted a change 'democratically'.  Aurigan Coalition for at least two decades would be dealing with the effects of the Civil War.  And Retcons are not a bad thing. 

[Elmoth]

It is 3020s, not 3050s. The Trinity alliance was a thing of the future at the time.

[Icerose20]

Very little was written about the area between the Canopians, Taurains, and Capcon, till 3050s, with the NCR and the Trinity Alliance.  That is what I am referring to about the retconning. 

I hope that when they do, they do not do what 40K did to the Tau.  My Tau army is still an believe in truth, justice and honor, and have no one (other then me) controlling them like puppets. 

(And My unit has the Argo, and not your unit.  :P)

[Maingunnery]

I could see it as just another failed state, breaking apart a few years after the game campaign ends.

[AlphaMirage]

I could see it as just another failed state, breaking apart a few years after the game campaign ends.

Yeah you literally don't have to change anything.  Another lost state of a dozen systems hardly ranks in Sourcebooks, he k even the big Periphery States shared a book and they are five times larger

[Empyrus]

Yeah you literally don't have to change anything.  Another lost state of a dozen systems hardly ranks in Sourcebooks, he k even the big Periphery States shared a book and they are five times larger

Except during the time AC exists (from 2910 onward), it does play a role. A nation means concentration of power, and that means military threat or opportunity, even if it only exists for a short time. And this means perhaps even more during the low-intensity warfare of the Third War, everyone has little strength anyway, very small addition can cause a run-away effect.

For the Federated Suns, the Aurigan Coalition placement is quite ideal. It requires the CapCon and Taurian Concordant to shift power to their rimward (if i recall the map directions correct) border, which means less power facing the FedSuns. Plus the FedSuns would likely try to make AC an ally in the event of war, two front warfare (or however manyth front it would be), even if it minor, is a drain in resources and can likely have effect elsewhere.

[Fear Factory]

It’s not yet, no, but it could.

And if it becomes canon we won’t be coy with history. Parts—small parts—will have to be rewritten. No “oops, ComStar left those parts out,” it’ll be a retcon.

You mean, they don't have a bunch of King Crabs floating around the system for Mercenaries to harvest?  ;) Bummer.

[Maingunnery]

Except during the time AC exists (from 2910 onward), it does play a role. A nation means concentration of power, and that means military threat or opportunity, even if it only exists for a short time. And this means perhaps even more during the low-intensity warfare of the Third War, everyone has little strength anyway, very small addition can cause a run-away effect.

For the Federated Suns, the Aurigan Coalition placement is quite ideal. It requires the CapCon and Taurian Concordant to shift power to their rimward (if i recall the map directions correct) border, which means less power facing the FedSuns. Plus the FedSuns would likely try to make AC an ally in the event of war, two front warfare (or however manyth front it would be), even if it minor, is a drain in resources and can likely have effect elsewhere.

Or one can just assume that their effect was already included in the canon results. Also the Aurigan Coalition internal obligations is going to severely limit the amount of troops that they can deploy far away.

[NeonKnight]

While I understand some folks desire to not include the Aurigan Reach, there are others such as myself who would welcome the Reach.

How the PTB would include it, I don;t know, but for a game system that invariably has most of it's 'Canonicity' define in products that are either:

NOVELS that are OOP

or

Sourcebooks that are OOP

Remember too that in order for BT the TABLETOP GAME to survive and continue it needs new players, not just the old Guard, and most of those new players will likely come from the Video Game side of the floor

[Colt Ward]

Except during the time AC exists (from 2910 onward), it does play a role. A nation means concentration of power, and that means military threat or opportunity, even if it only exists for a short time. And this means perhaps even more during the low-intensity warfare of the Third War, everyone has little strength anyway, very small addition can cause a run-away effect.

For the Federated Suns, the Aurigan Coalition placement is quite ideal. It requires the CapCon and Taurian Concordant to shift power to their rimward (if i recall the map directions correct) border, which means less power facing the FedSuns. Plus the FedSuns would likely try to make AC an ally in the event of war, two front warfare (or however manyth front it would be), even if it minor, is a drain in resources and can likely have effect elsewhere.

Not sure how you get that . . . the TC did not jump in when the FS was distracted gobbling up the CapCon.  Whether it was paranoia or trying to absorb/topple the Reach/Directorate they did not shift forces.  FS MIIO may have decided that was due to the paranoia, which is what we are told in material and fits the FS's centric reporting.  Did we hear that the CapCon shifted forces from their borders to the TC & MoC?  No?  Then again it does not matter- even IF the Reach was not in place, it was a area for pirates which would have to be garrisoned against just as if it was another nation.  These little alliances, 2 or 3 world polities, would spring up from time to time IMO and likely fade out after the charismatic leader lost power or died.  Look at Europe after the Roman Empire fell, its sort of the model BT used anyway-  the League/Empire collapsed and those worlds left alone now had to try to find their own security and protect their economic interest.

Even the ending of the campaign story hints that the Reach will fall.  All that has to be retcon'd is a single phrase about the Fronc Reaches . . . 'Built on the ashes of the Aurigan Reach . . . '

[SteveRestless]

It’s not yet, no, but it could.

And if it becomes canon we won’t be coy with history. Parts—small parts—will have to be rewritten. No “oops, ComStar left those parts out,” it’ll be a retcon.

Speaking as a loud old grognard, I welcome this attitude. If you decide to retcon, retcon. Just call it what it is.

[Fear Factory]

Speaking as a loud old grognard, I welcome this attitude. If you decide to retcon, retcon. Just call it what it is.

As long as it's in line with what the era actually has going on, fine by me.

As a side note, it's the main reason I hate the endgame in the PC game. BattleTech was never about pimped out assault mech slugfests. In this era, you fought with what you had, even if weapons or a limb was missing.

[Mendrugo]

The early establishing fiction (in MechWarrior 1E and MechWarrior 2E) note the existence of more than 100 nearby kingdoms in the Periphery.  Even counting all the Chainlane factions as separate kingdoms, and including the Deep Periphery, what's been mapped doesn't exceed the 50s, so there's plenty of room to include the Aurigan Coalition. 

You can either go with "ComStar Cartographic Corps dropped the ball" or (more fun) "ComStar Cartographic Corps left it off the maps for its own nefarious purposes."  There's precedent - RWR Outpost #27 was shown on maps in "Hot Spots" but dropped from subsequent maps.  This was, in ISP 3, noted as a conscious decision by ComStar, and that its inclusion in Hot Spots was a mistake by an Acolyte.  (Not a mistake in that it didn't exist, but a mistake in admitting ComStar knew it was there.)

Heck, I'm looking at the original 3025 map, and it doesn't even show the Taurian Concordat or the Magistracy of Canopus, and only puts five worlds in the Outworlds Alliance and one in the Circinus Federation.

[Frabby]

I'll echo what others have said: It's possible to canonize the Aurigan Reach (and other stuff from the game - the Argo, planet descriptions, the Stackpole novels, etc) by and large. But it doesn't fit 100%, so something has to give. And judging from past experience, it will have to be the game content that's re-interpreted to fit into the established universe.
It may turn out that the game storyline is mostly accurate but happened on a much smaller military scale, involving a light merc 'Mech lance and lots of decrepit vehicles and lowtech infantry, in true periphery style. No assault 'Mechs within two jumps, no local industry to speak of, and barely enough salvage to keep the 'Mechs running.

Jason Youngblood probably didn't really defeat scores of Kurita 'Mechs plus star upon star of Smoke Jaguars. But the game storylines are still treated as near-canon.

[jimdigris]

This isn't anything that a test of the zombie virus the WOB used during the Jihad couldn't fix. ;)

[General308]

It’s not yet, no, but it could.

And if it becomes canon we won’t be coy with history. Parts—small parts—will have to be rewritten. No “oops, ComStar left those parts out,” it’ll be a retcon.

No way you could make it cannon without having to do a major retocon of in universe history.  I love the game and love the sorry on the HBS but you are going to open a major Canon problem if you do.

[DarkSpade]

Thought I read that Jordon specifically choose that area of the map because little to no fluff existed for that time period.  Should minimize any splash damage from retconing, if there's any retconing even needed.

As for all the fancy mechs that show up in the game, I don't think that really matters.  How many periphery books do we have that go into detail so specific that we know every last piece of military equipment in the area?

And for the Argo, I don't see how it's a problem.  Just because the game rules don't allow it doesn't mean it's impossible to build in universe and the game specifically says there was only ever 2 made.  Heck, depending on how detailed Catalyst wants to be, they don't even need to bring it up.

[YingJanshi]

Honestly, I think TPTB could add it into Canon with little fuss. The Reach isn't really big enough to be of interest to any of it's neighbors. Also the periphery is supposed to be full of small bandit kingdoms that come and go.

And as for the Argo, it's a Star League prototype. Just slap the Illegal quirk on it and put it in XTO: Boondoggles 2. Problem solved

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Honestly, I think TPTB could add it into Canon with little fuss. The Reach isn't really big enough to be of interest to any of it's neighbors. Also the periphery is supposed to be full of small bandit kingdoms that come and go.

And as for the Argo, it's a Star League prototype. Just slap the Illegal quirk on it and put it in XTO: Boondoggles 2. Problem solved

Boondoggles 2! OMG CANT WAIT!!!!!

But seriously: I mean I still haven't finished the end of the game but a civil war is no easy thing: I can just imagine the Reach sorta just fades away and eventually is absorbed by the Trinity Alliance because the ruling line does out.

Personally as always I think we should wait and see.

And also an 18 mech Dropship is weird: just saying.

[Nav_Alpha]

I don’t really see the problem of making it canon and then simply making it a footnote.
Most of the material we get is Inner Sphere specific and focusing on the big picture.
Does the Reach contradict anything canon apart from “it’s a big empty spot”?

It’s easy to say that post campaign, the kingdom slowly decayed, shrank and then eventually collapse. The civil war renders several planets damn near uninhabited and must have ripped through the treasury.
Once high lady running the show dies and the mercs supporting her move on, there’s little to hold the Coalition together.

You could  make the whole thing canon by including one paragraph saying the region enjoyed a brief period of stability and prosperity under the Aurigan Coalition before decay set in and the region quickly fell into anarchy.

[Liam's Ghost]

No way you could make it cannon without having to do a major retocon of in universe history.  I love the game and love the sorry on the HBS but you are going to open a major Canon problem if you do.

Not necessarily.

As Mendrugo pointed out, a small enough nation in the periphery simply not being mentioned has plenty of precedent. It doesn't even require comstar to goof or be super secret, only to consider it insignificant enough to not be worth mentioning.

So that would probably mean scaling back the Aurigian Reach a fair bit, but the rest of the universe can move along just fine.

[glitterboy2098]

I don’t really see the problem of making it canon and then simply making it a footnote.
Most of the material we get is Inner Sphere specific and focusing on the big picture.
Does the Reach contradict anything canon apart from “it’s a big empty spot”?

there are some issues with the existence of a large, expansionist periphery nation with sizeable military power existing on what is by canon a quiet front for both the TC and Capcon that has nothing more than a few pirates to worry about.
there are also events that occur between the Taurians and capcon in the timeframe the reach is supposed to exist, that would require the taurians to have traveled across the entirety of the reach (multiple times) to be present. given that given that those same conflicts get name dropped in the tie-in novel, this causes some issues.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Just porting the game storyline directly into canon would disrupt so near as to nothing as I can't think of anything that'd need to be retconned.

And instead of being 3025, a "retcon" the game storyline to 50 or 100 years prior to "HBS canon" you'd put it smack in the middle of the biggest, most open field of backstory that remains. There's room for not just one minor periphery kingdom that only lasts for a couple generations... you could invent dozens of Aurigan Reaches for the 30th century without contradicting any canon.

EDIT: As a fun aside, it's fun to think of House Espinosa as having been right.  The Directorate was the Reach's only hope at being a successful, sustained interstellar state... and that uppity princess ruined it for everyone by reclaiming her throne!

[Adrian Gideon]

Say your prayers, it’s the Large Hadron Collider all over again. We’re doomed.

[ThePW]

Not sure how you get that . . . the TC did not jump in when the FS was distracted gobbling up the CapCon.  Whether it was paranoia or trying to absorb/topple the Reach/Directorate they did not shift forces.  FS MIIO may have decided that was due to the paranoia, which is what we are told in material and fits the FS's centric reporting.  Did we hear that the CapCon shifted forces from their borders to the TC & MoC?  No?  Then again it does not matter- even IF the Reach was not in place, it was a area for pirates which would have to be garrisoned against just as if it was another nation.  These little alliances, 2 or 3 world polities, would spring up from time to time IMO and likely fade out after the charismatic leader lost power or died.  Look at Europe after the Roman Empire fell, its sort of the model BT used anyway-  the League/Empire collapsed and those worlds left alone now had to try to find their own security and protect their economic interest.

Even the ending of the campaign story hints that the Reach will fall.  All that has to be retcon'd is a single phrase about the Fronc Reaches . . . 'Built on the ashes of the Aurigan Reach . . . '

Perfect. Totally Perfect...