Replacing Raijins

[Alain Dumont]

I need some 45-55 ton 'Mechs for my Merc force.  We have a pair of Raijins we liberated from the Toasters.  I've been proxying them, and I'm tired of doing so. 

I want to find some new 'Mechs to replace them with (and paint).  I've used HMPro's selection screen, and set the paramaters to Inner Sphere, Jihad Era (well, actually, I picked all time frames), 40-50 ton, choosing from Capellan, MoC, and Merc availability.

There's a lot of stuff to choose from on that list, even after I set the minimum move to 6 (the Raijins were paired with a brace of Uziel 2Ses in a cavalry lance), so I need suggestions on what might be appropriate to replace them with.   

I was thinking of some newish Capellan or MoC design that I wouldn't yet have/have painted, so what I'd really like is help avoiding 'Mechs whose minis are unavailable.   :P


Given those parameters, does anything immediately come to mind?

[JPArbiter]

You have not listed what minis you own, if you plan on purchasing, what is wrong with raijin IIs?

[Stormfury]

Assuming you want to stick with 6/9ish, there's the Phoenix Hawk, and the Wraith is always worth a look even if it is 55 tons. Possibly the Men Shen as well.

[Alain Dumont]

You have not listed what minis you own, if you plan on purchasing, what is wrong with raijin IIs?

1) Two or three of the introductory sets from last year or the year before (moved a while back...just now getting around to unpacking all my BattleTech stuff), so all the generic/common L1 stuff.  I've a lot of metal minis, but they tend to be lights (Valkyries and Jenners, esp.) or assaults (my Templar is still my favorite mech).  The only non-plastic mediums I have, I think, are the Uziels and a Bushwhacker or two.

2) Nothing, really.  I'll take a look at them.

[Alain Dumont]

Assuming you want to stick with 6/9ish, there's the Phoenix Hawk, and the Wraith is always worth a look even if it is 55 tons. Possibly the Men Shen as well.

55 tons is fine.  Will look at the Wraith.

The Men Shen is the omni that looks like a chicken with a severe overbite, isn't it?

[Stormfury]

Yep. But some of the configurations are pretty good.

[Saint]

I'd pick Phoenix Hawk or a Nightsky O0.

[Isanova]

Try a Marshal. They're durable, and surprisingly versatile... but also not overpowered. It's also unexpected :P

[Stormfury]

But as a replacement for a 6/9/6 mover with a long-range weapon, and working in tandem with other ranged 6/9/6 movers with long-ragnge weapons, perhaps not really what you want...

[Isanova]

Take a MHL-2L, add er lenses on the LL, switch out the LRM-15 for a MM/4, the MGs for a RL-20, and you've got a nice mercenary toy.

Aside from the older standbys, T-Bolt being a good one made in the area,

[Colt Ward]

But everything your mentioning is slower than what the OP asked for . . . at the 6/9 speed.

Couple of fun ideas . . .

Bloodhound- its your electronics guru, unfortunately it does not jump
Exterminator 4D- a bit heavier than you asked for, but again a fun design
Vulcan 5M- more pulse fun for jumping
Chimera 1S- if you want a challenge to effectively deploy something, this mech is for you!  Its also
     generally available due to where its made
Clint-  A series that can be a lot of fun

[Maelwys]

What about the Eyleuka?

Admittedly, its not 6/9/6 (most of the variants anyway), but it is 5/8/7, its produced in the MoC, its in stock with IWM as far as I can tell.

The heat curve takes a bit of getting used to, but the two main designs feature Stealth Armor and ECM, as well as TAG. The other drawback is the small cockpit unfortunately.

[foxbat]

I'll suggest a Firestarter Omni. At 45 tons, it's a bit light indeed, but well armored for its size and with the same movement curve as the Raijin. Furthermore, most of its configs are extremely useful.

[markhall]

The Stealth Phawk is a lovely choice.

And the Firestarter Omni would provide you with some great opportunities for options durning fights.
But is a little Pricey in C-Bills terms if that's how you play.

[martian]

GRF-4N / GRF-4R Griffin

Both are widely available according to MUL. They are as fast as Raijin, but more durable.

The GRF-4N has Plasma rifle which is very good multipurpose weapon with damage comparable to AC-10 combined with flamer and added bonus against infantry. Secondary weapons are three ER Medium lasers.

The GRF-4R has very effective Snub-nose PPC backed with ER Medium laser and MML-5 with two ammo bins.

The only backside is that they are not equipped with special electronics.

Both Iron Wind Metals and Ral Partha Europe produce Griffin miniature.

[Jellico]

But as a replacement for a 6/9/6 mover with a long-range weapon, and working in tandem with other ranged 6/9/6 movers with long-ragnge weapons, perhaps not really what you want...

When you put it like that all I can think of is Stormcrow. But then Stormcrow goes with everything.

[Moonsword]

It's official, then.  Stormcrow is the new black.

Getting back on track...  A Men Shen, especially if your group uses custom Omni configurations and you can justify getting your hands on one.  Otherwise, Phoenix Hawks and the Griffins mentioned by Martian are both popular and common choices.  I've gotten a bit of mileage out of Hellspawns in that general role, too, although I'll admit they're not a popular 'Mech and aren't something I'd expect to find in that circle.  Wraiths aren't bad at all.

[blackjack]

I forget Raijin mini's are hard to come by. I really like them very fun to play. With keeping in the movement profile the Menshen & P-hawk are the two strongest contenders. I'd also take alook at the Eyleuka 45B configuration.

[Deathknight69]

I love my Raijin. Haven't tried to get another one yet. I would love to get a new Mk II. I'm trying to find a way to incorporate the Raijin into my existing non-canon unit "MacPherson's Rangers".

[Jimmyray73]

I recommend Wraiths, Nightskys, P-Hawks and or Scorpions. I know the Scorpion lacks jump jets but I just love fast quads.  Also the updated versions of the Ceturion and amuse me when they get up to 6/9 (especially the RAC version) as well as their bastard offspring, the Legionnaire (7/11 and an excellent RAC, so to speak)...

[gooseman]

I forget Raijin mini's are hard to come by. I really like them very fun to play. With keeping in the movement profile the Menshen & P-hawk are the two strongest contenders. I'd also take alook at the Eyleuka 45B configuration.

I had no idea. Glad I've got five. ;)

[Ian Sharpe]

I had no idea. Glad I've got five. ;)

Aren't the originals Unseen now?

[gooseman]

Aren't the originals Unseen now?

I think so. (Two of the five)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Though strangely enough, IWM appeared to have put them back in production for a brief time.

[Sartris]

Though strangely enough, IWM appeared to have put them back in production for a brief time.

Yeah, the one I bought off the internets was in the blister with the 4th ed box set Atlas on the backing.  I'm not sure if they stopped the '55 unseen before they started using that blister, but I've never seen any other unseen in the same packaging.

[LastChanceCav]

I'll suggest a Firestarter Omni. At 45 tons, it's a bit light indeed, but well armored for its size and with the same movement curve as the Raijin. Furthermore, most of its configs are extremely useful.

I find the FS9-O quite useful. I it easier to feel good about if I think about the configs as omni P-hawks instead of omni Firestarters.


Cheers,
LCC

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

IWM was selling them from their booth at GenCon in 2010.  I can only assume that they'd put them back into production at some point, though they don't seem to be selling them now.

[peter crowley]

For something a bit whackier you could try the Warhammer 10T its outside your weight limit and 5/8/7 not 6/9/6 but its on the periphery general list and who can say no to a pair of jumping PPCs.
The thunder from TRO prototypes could work also 4/6/6 i think with a thunderbolt 20 for kicks.

[Alain Dumont]

Does anything from Ceres Metals fit the bill here?  I was thinking of going with something notably MoC or CC, rather than FedSuns (as most of our initial 'Mechs were) or "generic merc" (the second group of 'Mechs); something to tie them more to their adopted homeland (Canopus)--or, by extension, the CapCon.

[Colt Ward]

Well, its why I suggested the Chimera, its generally merc available. For CC . . . your looking at the Men Shen if your well connected or a Liao Phoenix Hawk.

[martian]

I was thinking of going with something notably MoC or CC, rather than FedSuns (as most of our initial 'Mechs were) or "generic merc" (the second group of 'Mechs); something to tie them more to their adopted homeland (Canopus)--or, by extension, the CapCon.

Looking through Handbook: Major Periphery States I can see that Majesty Metals and Manufacturing produces Shadow Hawk, so you should look this way. We do not know what variant is produced there, but TRO: Project Phoenix says that House Liao bought license rights for SHD-7M to produce it for their armed forces and their Magistracy allies. So it's possible that Capellans sublicensed SHD-7M to Canopians. Capellans did the same deal with Taurians already.

We should consider the possibility that Majesty Metals retooled their manufacturing line during Jihad. Then they could produce SHD-8L, if Capellans provided them with blueprints. It is a 'Mech similar to original Raijin, equipped with BAP and ECM, armed with Plasma rifle, MML-5 and Medium Variable Speed Pulse laser.
Both RPE and IWM offer miniature.

Griffin offers two variants. In addition to GRF-4R (which I mentioned earlier), you could look at GRF-5L produced by Capellans. Stealth variant with Plasma rifle and three Medium lasers doesn't look bad.
Both RPE and IWM offer miniature.

For distinctive Canopian/Capellan 'Mech you can check Eyleuka EYL-45A/B which is produced on Detroit.
Both RPE and IWM offer miniature.

Wolverine WVR-9W2 is another possibility. However, it lacks concentrated punch because its primary weapons are a pair of Light PPCs. I feel I should mention this 'Mech, but aforementioned Shadow Hawk, Eyleuka or Griffin  are much better choices.
Both RPE and IWM offer miniature.

Phoenix Hawk PXH-4L and PXH-5L isn't bad, but both models are a bit light on armour.

May I ask why you just do not buy Raijin II miniatures from IWM?

[snewsom2997]

Stealth P-Hawk, Stealth Vindicator.

[Alain Dumont]

Re: Raijin IIs...originally, I didn't know there was such a thing. 

Even now that I do, I'm looking for more MoC/Capellan, less Toaster 'Mechs.

[martian]

Even now that I do, I'm looking for more MoC/Capellan, less Toaster 'Mechs.

Go with Eyleuka, then. EYL-4A and EYL-35A were rare prototypes, so you can choose between standard EYL-45A and less common EYL-45B.

Both variants sport Stealth armour which helps to compensate for weak base armour protection. EYL-45A has got MML-9 with three ammo bins which allows for good flexibility in combat. EYL-45B lost that missile system, but gained Snub-nose PPC with additional three "freezers", so the heat is more manageable.

Both variants use Small cockpit which adds +1 when making Pilot Skill Roll. However, both variants have Compact gyroscope which needs less space in Center torso, so the chance that Eyleuka will be crippled because of destroyed gyro is smaller. EYL-45B has no ammo onboard, so there's no danger of internal explosion.

[Hellraiser]

IIRC the CC produces the P-Hawk & Imports the Firestarter-Omni.
The Vulcan-5M mentioned above is also made by the FWL which is nearby & was exported to various factions in the 3050's.

[Youngblood]

Don't forget about Hellespont on Sian!  They make the 40-ton Sha Yu, if you're willing to forgo Jump Jets for an excellent ground skirmisher with added TAG capability.

EDIT: And if you wanted to get a little heavier, there's the 50-ton Huron Warrior made by Hollis on Corey, with its nice pair of big guns.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

One Cappie mech that I haven't seen suggested here but might work for a Raijin replacement is the Vindicator, specifically the 4L variant.  It's a 5/8/5 mover and mounts Stealth Armor.  Good firepower and reasonably durable for a 45 tonner with an XL engine.

[martian]

One Cappie mech that I haven't seen suggested here but might work for a Raijin replacement is the Vindicator, specifically the 4L variant.  It's a 5/8/5 mover and mounts Stealth Armor.  Good firepower and reasonably durable for a 45 tonner with an XL engine.

I agree it's a good 'Mech.

Check post #31.

[House Davie Merc]

Has anyone mentioned the 55 tons Cronus CNS-5M  ?

It's loadout and armor is similar  to some of the Raijin variants.

Available in 3060 , sold to Mercs , 168 armor points ,14 double heat sinks ,
6/9/6 with XL Engine ,  ER PPC , 2x ER Medium Lasers, 1x ER Small Laser ,
Streak SRM-4 ,  C3 slave .

[Kojak]

I can think of a few different 'Mechs, but most of them have been listed already. If it were me, I'd go with the FS9-OF Firestarter, it's just gangbusters, and the Free Worlds League has been building 'em for years, so the Canopians and Capellans probably have a more than few through purchase and/or salvage.

[Alain Dumont]

It's too bad IWM doesn't make a mini for the Osprey yet.  I like the TRO art for it.

[gooseman]

It's too bad IWM doesn't make a mini for the Osprey yet.  I like the TRO art for it.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

And if you don't want to buy the lance pack, the individual mini was released about a month ago.  Maybe longer.

[Alain Dumont]

Wow...totally didn't see that when I looked at the IWM site.  Thanks!

[Sami Jumppanen]

Not sure if you can get those in CC but isn't there a Centurion RAC variant that moves 6/9 ? It is possible that it had MASC too.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yes, there is a Centurion variant that mounts a RAC 5 and moves 6/9(12).

However, like every other Centurion, it's built by the Davions.

[Sami Jumppanen]

Yes, there is a Centurion variant that mounts a RAC 5 and moves 6/9(12).

However, like every other Centurion, it's built by the Davions.

There must be some salvaged ones in CC.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

There might be.  There absolutely doesn't have to be any.  But the CC wouldn't be selling any that they to a merc unit and they wouldn't be a good choice for a merc unit to buy- the mech is expensive and it'd be hard to get replacement equipment.