How could I protect a shipyard mothballed for 400 years?

[pheonixstorm]

A yardship with a busted K-F drive? That would be interesting...

[Wolf72]

Also, let them have some serious marine and defensive ability ... part of their national pride paranoia is to protect their secret.

[Daryk]

Marine Combat Suits are the way to go there...  8)

[Natasha Kerensky]

To minimize against micrometeoroid impacts, put the shipyard in an orbit where micrometeoroids are not.  Interplanetary dust is not evenly distributed:



https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/science-technology/from-cosmic-dust-to-the-origin-of-our-solar-system-63551

To minimize damage from solar radiation, pick an orbit in the far outer solar system.  Radiation intensity will go down by the inverse square law.



http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Forces/isq.html

There are also ways to treat rubbers and plastics to minimize outgassing:

https://www.applerubber.com/blog/beat-the-effects-of-outgassing/

None of these are silver bullets, but for the sake of a bit of pulp scifi about a 1980s universe a thousand years into the future, it’s good enough technical grounding and description.

[Red Pins]

Oh, heck no!  Let me explain;

1. To my knowledge, there is no RWR-exclusive YardShip.  Creating a custom one would be...  stretching the bounds of credulity.  To the point of absurdity.

2. As I said; no 'Monty Hauls' (Like, say, Helm.)  This is - essentially - a huge stationary asset that must be protected at all costs, requires at least a decade of massive financial investment, refurbishment and repair, at the end of a 6-7 month supply line for raw materials, manufactured goods, trained personnel, garrisons for Jump Points and planets along the way...

This?  This is an ANCHOR.  The Hegemony is going to benefit from this, but its going to be a case of the Python eating a deer whole for a long time.

3. They can have a Company of worn-out RWR-issue 'Mechs, a Regiment of Motorized Infantry, some civilian farmers, a 'Comfort Battalion' for breeding purposes  :-[ , and nothing else.

No BA, Rampages, Dragoons, or good mechs and vehicles (Because they weren't developed until after the Coup).  Everything useful is going to ambush the SLDF, and these are the dregs.

4. The prospective location is past their Pluto-equivalent, to cut down dust and radiation, as suggested, and I'm assuming - as part of the centuries of durability - the rubber compounds, etc, have already been treated.

The other thing was, using an asteroid as a brace for the scaffolding required, and to partially conceal it.

Any other ideas?  Because tomorrow morning after breakfast, etc., I need to write and get this monkey off my back and start the NEXT project on Monday...

[Daryk]

They'll also need to keep it secret, because that's a target worth a drive by with an actual WarShip.

[Red Pins]

They have.  IE came by, and they kept mum.  They didn't know if Amaris lost or not, so didn't admit to anything, and IE didn't spend years looking for evidence of a shipyard they didn't know about.

[pheonixstorm]

As far as a yardship is concerned, the only scenario that might work would be a refit of an existing class of jumpship or warship. Something long obsolete and nearing the end of its useful life. Something old, but common on shipping lanes, that wouldn't draw a lot of attention. Wouldn't work with the current setup but would make for an interesting idea. The point about a custom from the keel up though is a stretch I wouldn't go for.

Good luck with it and let us know how it goes :thumbsup:

[SteelRaven]

What year does your scenario/story take place? You can always make it a secret ComStar/WoB station that became a haven for few surviving WoB support Mercs and Pirate units when the war went south. After a few bullets to the head of the true believes who want to die fighting, they have a nice place to lay low and not be hunted down for war crimes. All the records for the yard are lost in the war and you have just enough people who know what they are doing to keep it running. A generation later, things are looking a little thin without a secret origination to help with logistics, may be time to final abandon the yard when the Black Out happens. Old folks started telling the kids about their pirate/Merc days as this is a perfect time to make some money.

[Red Pins]

What year does your scenario/story take place? You can always make it a secret ComStar/WoB station that became a haven for few surviving WoB support Mercs and Pirate units when the war went south. After a few bullets to the head of the true believes who want to die fighting, they have a nice place to lay low and not be hunted down for war crimes. All the records for the yard are lost in the war and you have just enough people who know what they are doing to keep it running. A generation later, things are looking a little thin without a secret origination to help with logistics, may be time to final abandon the yard when the Black Out happens. Old folks started telling the kids about their pirate/Merc days as this is a perfect time to make some money.

3162.  I wanted to do an epilogue as a 10-year event, so in 3172 the expedition pulls into the system.

No, no Wobbies.  the main character is a historian, the fiance works for IE, the story already posted and it's location was found in a RWR/AsRoc intelligence core.  Plus, I'm on the last 3-5000 words.  Too late, sorry.   ^-^

[SteelRaven]

Cool, just was trying to find an angle of how someone would 1.) Keep it secret and 2.) Keep it running as things it space would still need maintenance.

Guess something like Camelot Command would make the best sense as it's proven in universe to be a installation that could last.

Best to luck on the story.

[Prospernia]

Or, you could have it in a polar-solar orbit, making the chance of encounters with micro-asteroids only twice in it's year (orbit).

Also, it could have robots still maintaining the station, making repairs here and there, like the movie, Screamers.

[guardiandashi]

my 2 cents

a true polar orbit should be avoided because it would cross the zenith and nadir which is where 99% of jumpships jump in.
the orbit shosen IMO would be out of the plane of the ecliptic (where over 99% of the non solar mass in the solar system tends to be)
but not an even numbered angle IE avoid multiples of 5degrees, 33-34 degrees would be better for example 45degrees or 90degrees would be particularly BAD choices.

in regards to "survival" the main reason to have things like rubber seals, are for moving parts, and similar, but if for the sake of argument you used aluminum alloy panels as part of the hull, and synthetic sapphire (transparent aluminum) for all practical purposes in a hard mechanical join its not going to leak easily, the expansion coefficients are likely to be similar and if they "vacuum wield together" it just means its going to be a lot harder to replace damaged sections because you would need to cut them apart and wield in new pieces. (or wield on a patch piece on the inside or outside to patch a hole.

at the end of the day if its mothballed the facilities atmosphere likely had the atmosphere either removed, or more likely replaced with a heavilly (pure) nitrogen atmosphere at reduced pressure IE all the oxygen, carbon dioxide and hydrogen (water) removed as those cause most of the damage to materials. reducing the internal pressure from say 14psi to 4psi would significantly reduce the strain on the structure while not exposing anything to true vacuum.

"docking, landing on, or coating" the structure with asteroid material would both protect it from mechanical damage, and help disguise by making it look more like a natural body in the system.

[Red Pins]

'Plane of the epileptic'.

Dang it, couldn't remember that term and gave up.  Thanks.

I didn't go into technical details, but the asteroid side of the shipyard is pointed towards the system's star, so its not expanding and contracting all the time, anyway.

And - the story has been finished, except for a couple paras describing the loot; I'll have time to finish tomorrow, then start the TRO.

Should be fairly quick; I'm only interested in refits to RL-equipped units, and there won't be many of those.  No new tech other than the modified AIV missiles, and that's just a description.  I'll cut-and-paste from another ongoing project, and lift art from Sarna.

[Cannonshop]

'Plane of the epileptic'.

Dang it, couldn't remember that term and gave up.  Thanks.

I didn't go into technical details, but the asteroid side of the shipyard is pointed towards the system's star, so its not expanding and contracting all the time, anyway.

And - the story has been finished, except for a couple paras describing the loot; I'll have time to finish tomorrow, then start the TRO.

Should be fairly quick; I'm only interested in refits to RL-equipped units, and there won't be many of those.  No new tech other than the modified AIV missiles, and that's just a description.  I'll cut-and-paste from another ongoing project, and lift art from Sarna.

Plane of the Ecliptic.  if'n that's the term you're searching for.

[Daryk]

Spell check strikes again!  Guardiandashi had it right.

[GRUD]

So, secrecy was never a problem, the colony has some maintenance ability, and retains some education and technology

But "Book/Classroom Skills" are ENTIRELY different from "Hands-On Skills".  And over 400 years?  :o  So, they've been playing the "Telephone Game" for 400 years, essentially.   ;D  Then there's What The Manual Calls For, versus what the Mechanics/Technicians (from 400 years back) discovered worked the best.  Or actually Worked, period.

Gruff Technician NPC: "See, the MANUAL calls for a 10mm socket, but what actually works is a 10mm deep-well socket. But to even reach it you need a 6-inch extension, which the manual doesn't mention."

If they're semi-close (as light-years go) to a House or Major Periphery Power, maybe they could make a deal with the House/Power?  "We have this repair facility, but don't really know how to operate it. You can use it and train our people and pay us a monthly/yearly fee.  You get X percent discount for Y years. We start off with a Z year contract, and when that is close to expiring, we go from there."

[Daryk]

Or, you know, a 15cm extension...  :D

[Red Pins]

Plane of the Ecliptic.  if'n that's the term you're searching for.

Stupid tablet spellcheck.  In my defense, I stayed up until 3 am working on it.

And thanks, Grud, that would be one more reason maintenance tapered off - no experience like experience.  All it would take is one booby trap going off and killing a bunch of experienced tech's to start that...

[RifleMech]

I'm a bit late but also little lost.

It must be defended at all costs but has no defenses.  :-\ No fighters or assault small craft or assault dropships?

Would there be any industrialmechs or exoskeletons to help repair spacecraft or mine for material? Any IndustrialMechs and vehicles to support the farmers on the planet?

Any satellites to warn if anyone gets near it?

Would a small craft have the cargo capacity and life support to get to the planet from the station?

What do they do with the equipment they bring back from the station? Would it be able to be used to make or maintain mechs and vehicles, including the small craft ? Otherwise, why the effort to  bring to the planet, and how would they maintain the station without being able to maintain their small craft?

[Prospernia]

You probably have enough to go on, without having to write to NASA.   

Thy only way to detect something like that is the same way we find asteroids on Earth: with a telescope, an astronomer and many, many, many nights of sky-observations.  It's totally possible to a shipyard, to remain hidden for 400-years, especially if there's no one actively looking for it.

And what if it wasn't hidden; what if someone found it?  Four-hundred years is a long, long-time; maybe someone found it and used it as a station or a hidden-base, like, two-hundred years ago and since abandoned it.

[RifleMech]

You probably have enough to go on, without having to write to NASA.   

Thy only way to detect something like that is the same way we find asteroids on Earth: with a telescope, an astronomer and many, many, many nights of sky-observations.  It's totally possible to a shipyard, to remain hidden for 400-years, especially if there's no one actively looking for it.

And what if it wasn't hidden; what if someone found it?  Four-hundred years is a long, long-time; maybe someone found it and used it as a station or a hidden-base, like, two-hundred years ago and since abandoned it.

I'd probably still have to write NASA.

A satellite or more could still help instead of having to have people out there.

That is a great question!  :thumbsup:  I can see that happening and those on the planet finding what's there doesn't match their manifest.

[Red Pins]

The story is already written, guys.  But, ok.  The story is here; https://battletechfanon.fandom.com/wiki/Hegemon

If you want to ask questions - read it first so you get a grip on the situation.

I'm a bit late but also little lost.

It must be defended at all costs but has no defenses.  :-\ No fighters or assault small craft or assault dropships?

Its an asset that will require the Marian Hegemony to send military assets 6 months into the Deep Periphery to defend it.  At this point in the story (not the part this thread was supposed to help me rationalize and solve, that's the epilogue which isn't published yet - I don't like the ending), the shipyard has spent roughly 350 years in mothballs.  Its in the Kuiper belt, past their equivalent of Pluto.

Would there be any industrialmechs or exoskeletons to help repair spacecraft or mine for material? Any IndustrialMechs and vehicles to support the farmers on the planet?

Yes, there are IndustrialMechs on the station and the planet.  The ones on the station are leftovers not taken to the planet for parts or adaptation to support the farmers - in-story, all they had to move people and equipment from the station were long-distance shuttles.

Any satellites to warn if anyone gets near it?

No.  Those would have been breadcrumbs to lead people who discovered the system to find the shipyard.  In-story, if they had to do something, they used the shuttles.

Would a small craft have the cargo capacity and life support to get to the planet from the station?

It was a shipyard, that made occasional runs to the planet.  They adapted what they had, loaded them to the overheads (ceilings) and prayed.  It worked.

What do they do with the equipment they bring back from the station? Would it be able to be used to make or maintain mechs and vehicles, including the small craft ? Otherwise, why the effort to  bring to the planet, and how would they maintain the station without being able to maintain their small craft?

They were smart enough to know they needed diagnostic equipment, portable equipment of all types - they looked at what they had, and didn't bring naval welding equipment, WarShip armor, all kinds of things.  The stuff they brought back (like the Workmechs) were adapted to what they needed.

They were a shipyard, not a battlemech factory.  Yes, there was a small farming operation set up to help supply the station by Amaris, and a mechanized infantry unit whose vehicles were converted to other functions, and a 'comfort battalion' of civilians who worked in administration kind of things.  Mind you, there were still fights and people killed each other.  (Because without the presence of women, they would have died.  But in the story, the big resource here is the people of the colony.   :)  Its a constant irritant of mine that it underrated.)

You can maintain a lot in Battletech, for a long time, with bad maintenance.  But you need some.  They did what they could; it was looting the shipyard over that 350+ years that kept maintenance happening, but they're kinda focused on survival.

Anyway, the story's done, like I said, just a couple corrections and that ending...  Then I can post it on spacebattles, and send it to Wrangler.

[Daryk]

Yes, there are Small Craft that can make the journey (KR-61 and K-1 off the top of my head at least).

[Prospernia]

. . .

That is a great question!  :thumbsup:  I can see that happening and those on the planet finding what's there doesn't match their manifest.

So, in a science-fiction, tradition, i.e. Aliens, surveyor-probes swept through the system in the early days of space-exploration and gave he object found a catalog-number, like, Burke2079-06-12, and another additional-objects located would be unknown and very common and just given a # and nothing else  would be thought of it.  A spectrum-analysis would come back as an M-class asteroid, metal-rich, and, may attract the attention of miners.  At such distances, the only way they could tell its a station is if it had unusual visual-features, like massive-towers or it was transmitting an IFF-signal.

[Red Pins]

Just posted the final 3000+ words to the story, so this thread is essentially finished.  Thanks everyone.

[RifleMech]

The story is already written, guys.  But, ok.  The story is here; https://battletechfanon.fandom.com/wiki/Hegemon

If you want to ask questions - read it first so you get a grip on the situation.

Its an asset that will require the Marian Hegemony to send military assets 6 months into the Deep Periphery to defend it.  At this point in the story (not the part this thread was supposed to help me rationalize and solve, that's the epilogue which isn't published yet - I don't like the ending), the shipyard has spent roughly 350 years in mothballs.  Its in the Kuiper belt, past their equivalent of Pluto.

Wouldn't the RWR have had aerospace units to defend it in case of discovery?

Yes, there are IndustrialMechs on the station and the planet.  The ones on the station are leftovers not taken to the planet for parts or adaptation to support the farmers - in-story, all they had to move people and equipment from the station were long-distance shuttles.

No.  Those would have been breadcrumbs to lead people who discovered the system to find the shipyard.  In-story, if they had to do something, they used the shuttles.

It was a shipyard, that made occasional runs to the planet.  They adapted what they had, loaded them to the overheads (ceilings) and prayed.  It worked.

Cool,

Makes sense.

Cool.

They were smart enough to know they needed diagnostic equipment, portable equipment of all types - they looked at what they had, and didn't bring naval welding equipment, WarShip armor, all kinds of things.  The stuff they brought back (like the Workmechs) were adapted to what they needed.

They were a shipyard, not a battlemech factory.  Yes, there was a small farming operation set up to help supply the station by Amaris, and a mechanized infantry unit whose vehicles were converted to other functions, and a 'comfort battalion' of civilians who worked in administration kind of things.  Mind you, there were still fights and people killed each other.  (Because without the presence of women, they would have died.  But in the story, the big resource here is the people of the colony.   :)  Its a constant irritant of mine that it underrated.)

You can maintain a lot in Battletech, for a long time, with bad maintenance.  But you need some.  They did what they could; it was looting the shipyard over that 350+ years that kept maintenance happening, but they're kinda focused on survival.

I wouldn't think they'd be a factory. At least not a big one. Enough tools and they could make parts for things, tools, maybe hand make vehicles. Things a colony will need to grow.

That's cool. I would think the small craft would get the most maintenance. Having something go wrong while in flight isn't good.

Anyway, the story's done, like I said, just a couple corrections and that ending...  Then I can post it on spacebattles, and send it to Wrangler.

Cool. Will have to go read it.  :thumbsup: