Author Topic: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.  (Read 218020 times)

jimdigris

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Re: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.
« Reply #1140 on: 11 July 2022, 15:56:49 »
It's possible that she's setting up the CCAF for a big tumble.  When the Wolves jump the wall and attack the Capellans, the support that Daoshen was expecting to deal with the Wolves and Anduriens will suddenly depart their positions and act in support of Andurien.  Then again, maybe she's sending Daoshen the message that when the Wolves do come, he will have to deal with them alone if he doesn't treat her with respect.

Maelwys

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« Reply #1141 on: 11 July 2022, 16:29:32 »
Prior to EA, Ilsa was likely the leader in that pairing. Ari was shown to be rather enamoured with Ilsa in the relevant MWDA novel, and she was definitely presented as being the dominant partner in that marriage. Entirely possible things changed over time, though.

15 years earlier. Its possible its more equal at this point. And let me just say, the more we know about Joppa, the more I'm annoyed it just randomly went to the CC

MDFification

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« Reply #1142 on: 11 July 2022, 18:47:38 »
15 years earlier. Its possible its more equal at this point. And let me just say, the more we know about Joppa, the more I'm annoyed it just randomly went to the CC

Also Detroit. It's bizarre that the libertarian Canopians were content to give these important, long-held colonies to a totalitarian state, to the point of leaving their citizens behind. No matter how much economic benefits partnership with the Capellans has brought, selling out you people and ceding your territory for another state's benefit is a bad look.

Flaresnake

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« Reply #1143 on: 11 July 2022, 19:25:36 »
Yea whats with that?
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Maelwys

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« Reply #1144 on: 11 July 2022, 20:15:14 »
Also Detroit. It's bizarre that the libertarian Canopians were content to give these important, long-held colonies to a totalitarian state, to the point of leaving their citizens behind. No matter how much economic benefits partnership with the Capellans has brought, selling out you people and ceding your territory for another state's benefit is a bad look.

Detroit has always bothered me quite a bit. Because obvious reasons. Joppa was an annoyance because there wasn't much there. Now however...[/quote]

Yea whats with that?

Massive pressure by the Capellans perhaps in an attempt to appease. I'd assume. Capellans getting what they want :)

BrianDavion

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« Reply #1145 on: 11 July 2022, 20:30:52 »
the more I think of it the more I think that I'd not be suprised to see Isla deposed. she's been constantly absent. and Erde and now her daughter have seemingly been ruling more then she has over all I feel like that's not sustainable. even if Isla isn't deposed if she dies I think we can garentee her prefered sucessor (Danai) WON'T be inheriting.
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jimdigris

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« Reply #1146 on: 11 July 2022, 20:34:27 »
It wouldn’t surprise me if the entire Liao branch of the family was deposed.

BrianDavion

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« Reply #1147 on: 11 July 2022, 21:32:51 »
It wouldn’t surprise me if the entire Liao branch of the family was deposed.

I think Danai will inherit the Capcon. But I agree. the Centrella-Liaos likely will be quietly deposed. the MOC is a bit like the Lyran Commonwealth in that there is a body whom choses the next Magistrix from the ruling family IIRC. If Isla wants it to be Danai she's done a HORRID job making a case for it. and in fact has made pretty strong cases against it"
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VhenRa

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« Reply #1148 on: 11 July 2022, 23:28:40 »
That is the impression I've been getting with setting up a successful Centrella military leader, coming from Erde's line etc etc. When you combine that with stuff like the Canopians growing increasingly displeased with Ilsa's rule you get the set up for either revolt against Ilsa or succession crisis upon Ilsa's death where another branch of the family takes power.

Prior to Empire Alone my thoughts were "Ok, sure maybe. But we don't really have a viable successor to replace her with narratively". After Empire Alone that quibble has disappeared.

jimdigris

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« Reply #1149 on: 12 July 2022, 05:48:18 »
It wouldn't surprise me if the MoC becomes a much bigger player and the Capellans find themselves dramatically weakened as the plotline continues.

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« Reply #1150 on: 12 July 2022, 06:41:43 »
I see ultimately, MoC going its own way from Liao as minor partner after their dispute is done, merging with Duchy (yes i'm still reading the sourcebook)
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« Reply #1151 on: 12 July 2022, 10:15:08 »
I see ultimately, MoC going its own way from Liao as minor partner after their dispute is done, merging with Duchy (yes i'm still reading the sourcebook)

I'd be excited if things turned out like that. Not least because turning on Liao and merging with Andurien makes it likely the Magistracy can finally retake all of it's historical territory, finally reversing centuries of territorial shrinkage. A merger of the two essentially makes the Magistracy a Successor State in terms of scale, and by far the leading power in the Periphery.

But I think we need a lot of stuff to happen for that to be possible. Andurien's populace wants to be independent, so they'd need to be convinced that joining up with the Magistracy is the only way they can stay out of Marik or Liao hands. They'd likely demand extensive autonomy, so the Magistracy would be essentially turning into a more federal state to make this arrangement work. We'd probably also need to see a marriage between Hector Humphreys and Isolde Centrella to seal the deal.
« Last Edit: 12 July 2022, 10:19:35 by MDFification »

jimdigris

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« Reply #1152 on: 12 July 2022, 11:33:37 »
Andurien and the MoC have long-standing ties that go back to the Reunification War.  Their governmental philosophies are much more complementary as well.  If Liao was out of the picture, I could see them already in a federal government.

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« Reply #1153 on: 12 July 2022, 11:38:08 »
With ties like that, I'd expect it would only take a female ruler on the Andurien side to make that happen... ^-^

Maelwys

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« Reply #1154 on: 12 July 2022, 22:35:05 »
Joining the two would be problematic I'd think. The MoC seem to have a problem with absentee governorship, not necessarily the the Centrellas, and likewise the Anduriens are, and pretty much have always been for the Humphreys. I'm not sure I see it settling well if either tries to take over, and not sure if I see equal rulership. Unless they want to try a mini FWL but the MoC and Anduriens


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« Reply #1156 on: 14 July 2022, 20:34:52 »
It seems spoilered links are on double secret probation...  ::)

Metallgewitter

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« Reply #1157 on: 18 July 2022, 07:50:44 »
Given how Empire Alone is describing the relationship between the MoC and the Confederation one might think we get a repeat of the Capellan Crusades when the Magistracy told Daoshen to shove it and return their forces to the Magistracy to combat priate raids and also teach him a lesson.

Wrangler

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« Reply #1158 on: 18 July 2022, 08:09:30 »
I was very surprised Catalyst decided to do this change.  I really believed they were setting up Danai Liao-Centrella as to become the head of a Capallan/MoC/Andurien superstate to fight the Clans. Frankly, having that sort of strength would make sense to me.  However, to me it looks like their going maybe extend Canopus into Audurien maybe, if the up and comers mentioned in the character profiles of Empire Alone sourcebook doesn't swoop in and take over and cancel everything.
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Maelwys

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« Reply #1159 on: 18 July 2022, 21:17:40 »
Technically, I don't think the MoC forces have attacked the CapCon forces just yet, so there may be a bit more play in the alliance still.

BrianDavion

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« Reply #1160 on: 19 July 2022, 01:52:45 »
I was very surprised Catalyst decided to do this change.  I really believed they were setting up Danai Liao-Centrella as to become the head of a Capallan/MoC/Andurien superstate to fight the Clans. Frankly, having that sort of strength would make sense to me.  However, to me it looks like their going maybe extend Canopus into Audurien maybe, if the up and comers mentioned in the character profiles of Empire Alone sourcebook doesn't swoop in and take over and cancel everything.

doesn't suprise me, this break up has been a loooooooooong time coming, I never had any beleif the capellans where being set up as some sort of bulwark agaisnt the clans.  frankly, the CCAF has 52 regiments, and everyone else has 30 something... anyone who thinks the CC isn't going to suffer some set backs is kidding themselves
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Metallgewitter

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« Reply #1161 on: 19 July 2022, 06:19:45 »
doesn't suprise me, this break up has been a loooooooooong time coming, I never had any beleif the capellans where being set up as some sort of bulwark agaisnt the clans.  frankly, the CCAF has 52 regiments, and everyone else has 30 something... anyone who thinks the CC isn't going to suffer some set backs is kidding themselves

That is true. If the Confederation and the Magistracy would be one state they would be a superpower in the IS. But now with the foundation getting shaky it might be a weakening. Then again what enemies does the Confederation have at this point? The Republic is gone, the suns are hanging on by a string and the Free Worlds are more or less neutral. That leaves the Wolves and perhaps Andurien though the duchy should have learned their lesson by now.

Funniest thing would be if the Magistracy merges with the Duchy of Andurien and also takes a chunk of the Marian Hegemony

Wrangler

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« Reply #1162 on: 19 July 2022, 06:30:41 »
doesn't suprise me, this break up has been a loooooooooong time coming, I never had any beleif the capellans where being set up as some sort of bulwark agaisnt the clans.  frankly, the CCAF has 52 regiments, and everyone else has 30 something... anyone who thinks the CC isn't going to suffer some set backs is kidding themselves
Well I'm almost finished reading Empire Alone.  The impression was the CapCom was forces were spread thinner, thus why the invasion happened by the Anduriens. If the smackdown between the ilKhan and the Channcelor goes down, I suspect the Liao forces will perhaps be too weak to repulse an invasion unless Danai is able cut deal with someone so "likely-dead-brother/dad" forces can focus on one threat.

As soon as the Hegemony forces that invaded are handled, the MoC may end up going on expedition to do a once in generation smack down on Neo-Romans if nothing else happens.
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jimdigris

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« Reply #1163 on: 19 July 2022, 06:32:22 »
Funniest thing would be if the Magistracy merges with the Duchy of Andurien and also takes a chunk of the Marian Hegemony
The Marian Hegemony is too far to effectively hold, especially with the lack of a reliable HPG network.  A puppet government would be a better solution.

jimdigris

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« Reply #1164 on: 19 July 2022, 06:34:24 »
As soon as the Hegemony forces that invaded are handled, the MoC may end up going on expedition to do a once in generation smack down on Neo-Romans if nothing else happens.[/spoiler]
They already have been handled.  The MoC taskforce is on its way to Alphard.

jimdigris

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« Reply #1165 on: 20 July 2022, 05:32:24 »
I find it ironic that former Republic troops are now fighting for the MoC, given their part in the Capellan's war on the Republic.  Gabrielle's Pride are described as veterans of fighting against the clans and can roll on the Clan Wolf RAT.

Metallgewitter

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« Reply #1166 on: 20 July 2022, 06:26:40 »
I find it ironic that former Republic troops are now fighting for the MoC, given their part in the Capellan's war on the Republic.  Gabrielle's Pride are described as veterans of fighting against the clans and can roll on the Clan Wolf RAT.

Isn't Gabrielle's Pride the continuation of the Mercenary unit Griffin's Pride? The symbol in empire Alone is the same at least. So having former Republic soldiers as members doesn't seem that unusal

BrianDavion

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« Reply #1167 on: 20 July 2022, 13:31:41 »
Well I'm almost finished reading Empire Alone.  The impression was the CapCom was forces were spread thinner, thus why the invasion happened by the Anduriens. If the smackdown between the ilKhan and the Channcelor goes down, I suspect the Liao forces will perhaps be too weak to repulse an invasion unless Danai is able cut deal with someone so "likely-dead-brother/dad" forces can focus on one threat.



I'm not sure a deal will be able to be cut, Andurian likely wants as much as they can take so any deal on that end would require surrendering a large number of Sian commonality worlds, (as well as likely some to the MOC) and Alaric'll basicly demand the capcon "bend the knee" the CC IMHO is in a "no win" position, Daoshen's over extended and is GOING to pay the price. a   sane reasonable ruler would have abandoned any intreast in further expansion, dug in along a border he deemed defensivable and wheeled back to deal with Andurian in sufficant force that the ever oppertunistic  MOC would side with you as "the victor"


that said looking at the text of his conversion with Ilsa I think there's something intreasting at play here..

The Chancellor fell silent for a long moment before
delivering his answer: “You have forgotten where your
obligation lies.” The Magestrix’s focus on growing their
realms had blinded her to her first duty as a Liao, he said.
The threat to the Confederation lay at the core of the
Inner Sphere, on Terra, and it was the responsibility of
the Celestial Wisdom to meet the threat of the ilClan by
reclaiming Confederation worlds and preparing to take
humanity’s homeworld from the Wolves. All other concerns
were secondary, Daoshen said, his gaze falling upon Ilsa—
especially hers.


IMHO Daoshen has become so obsessed with Terra he's become blind to threats from other quarters, to the point where my gut says he'll IGNORE Andurian, convinced that "he'll be able to deal with the upstarts once Terra is dealt with"
« Last Edit: 20 July 2022, 13:35:42 by BrianDavion »
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jimdigris

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« Reply #1168 on: 20 July 2022, 15:46:20 »
Isn't Gabrielle's Pride the continuation of the Mercenary unit Griffin's Pride? The symbol in empire Alone is the same at least. So having former Republic soldiers as members doesn't seem that unusal
There's no indication that Griffin's Pride isn't still working for the FWL.  They have a completely different unit symbol.  Griffin's Pride looks like it should be a Jade Falcon galaxy (see p 57).  Gabrielle's Pride looks like a green upside down triangle (see p. 102 on the arm).  The same page says that she is the former exec of Emory’s Evicerators.

DOC_Agren

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« Reply #1169 on: 21 July 2022, 16:57:22 »
besides everything that has happened has happened before
see the downfall of the Fedcom Super State
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