Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.

[Mecha82]

So seems like no one wants to answer to me question and help me in this. People of periphery are rude. 

[Moonsword]

I was kind of figuring I'd let someone who's mainly a Canopian fan answer the question, like Maelwys.  You might also want to try the Wiki, the Universe page, ER3052, ER3062, and Reunification War.  It's a very broad question, really.

[Neufeld]

All talk about Magistry of Canopus by Iron Liz in her review of 1st edition of the RPG has made me intrested from them. What you can tell about them to some one like me who has not been before intrested from any periphery states.

Well, your question is kind of broad. Some points:
- The MoC is a matriarchy
- The MoC is the youngest of the old big four SL era periphery states.
- The Reunification War was fought according to the Ares Conventions on the MoC front, which resulted in less tension afterwards.
- The MoC is very liberal, and is kind of a Space Vegas.
- The MoC is allied and in a dynastic marriage with the CC.
- The MoC has had close relations with Andurien for a long time. (Since the rebuilding after the Reunification War.)
- The MoC has the best intelligence agency in the periphery.
- Beware of Canopian women!

[Mecha82]

Ok, thats the start. How about they military. What its like? Also what kind of mechs they tend to use?

[Neufeld]

Ok, thats the start. How about they military. What its like? Also what kind of mechs they tend to use?

Well, the main thing about the military is that armor and infantry is sent in first, while the battlemechs are kept in reserve for decisive blows.
Mechs manufactured in 3067: Wasp, Stinger, Locust, Marauder, Shadow Hawk, Anubis, Ostroc, Marshal.
After that we have Eyleuka, Ebony and Penthesilea from TROs 3075 and 3085.
As for imports, expect Capellan mechs and things sold to everyone.

[Mecha82]

Thanks. That helps a lot already.

[ShockaTime]

Well, the main thing about the military is that armor and infantry is sent in first, while the battlemechs are kept in reserve for decisive blows.
Mechs manufactured in 3067: Wasp, Stinger, Locust, Marauder, Shadow Hawk, Anubis, Ostroc, Marshal.
After that we have Eyleuka, Ebony and Penthesilea from TROs 3075 and 3085.
As for imports, expect Capellan mechs and things sold to everyone.

Do you by any chance know the specific models that are produced?

[Moonsword]

All of the various Anubises, Marshals, Ebonies, and Penthesileas.  The Shadow Hawk is an advanced model but I don't know which one off the top of my head.

[Maelwys]

We know the Marauder was the 5L, and at some point they also gain a Phoenix Hawk 4W factory from the WoB during the Jihad.

Magistracy forces prior to the Jihad were built from whatever they could get. If it was for sale on the open market, they seem to have bought a few to use. I wouldn't say Capellan `Mechs would dominate, but I'd expect due to the ties between the two nations, that they're be able to purchase Capellan designs for a bit cheaper than say, from the FedSuns or Dracs.

You can also expect anything from IntroTech to cutting-edge designs from 3090, depending on which regiment you look at.

[jimdigris]

The MAF would also have a number of FWL designs purchased through Andurien intermediaries.

[Neufeld]

Do you by any chance know the specific models that are produced?

Some research notes, using known 3067 factories and MUL availability as starting point:

Locust (MMM, Canopus IV) -- LCT-1V (ref TRO:3039)
Locust (MMM, Dunianshire)
 LCT-1V -- AoW
 LCT-1E -- SW-E
 LCT-5V -- Jihad (confired about to enter MoC production in TRO:PP)

Stinger (MMM, Canopus IV)
Stinger (DCM, Detroit) -- STG-6L (ref TRO:PP)
 STG-3R -- AoW
 STG-3G -- SL
 STG-6L -- CW
 STG-3P -- Jihad (refit only, ref TRO:3085)
 STG-5T -- Jihad

Wasp (MMM, Canopus IV) -- Jihad:WSP-7MAF (ref TRO:3085)
Wasp (DCM, Detroit) -- WSP-3L (ref TRO:PP), Jihad:WSP-8T (ref TRO:3085)
 WSP-1A -- SL
 WSP-3L -- CW
 WSP-7MAF -- Jihad
 WSP-8T -- Jihad

Anubis (DCM, Detroit)

Marshal (DCM, Detroit)
 MHL-X1 -- Clan (note that Detroit is not mentioned in TRO3060)
 MHL-2L -- CW
 MHL-6MC -- Jihad

Shadow Hawk (MMM, Dunianshire) -- SHD-2H (ref TRO:3039)
 SHD-2H -- AoW
 SHD-7M -- CW (TRO:PP mentions that CC has bought license, no mention of MoC manufacturing)
 SHD-8L -- Jihad

Ostroc (DCM, Detroit) -- OSR-4L (ref TRO:PP)
 OSR-2D -- Clan (refit?)
 OSR-4C -- CW (Taurian ref TRO:3085)
 OSR-4L -- CW
 OSR-5C -- Rep (Taurian ref TRO:3085)

Marauder (MMM, Canopus IV)
 MAD-3R -- SW-E
 MAD-5L -- CW (not listed as manufactured in MoC in TRO:PP)
 MAD-6L -- Jihad

To me it looks like the factories is MoC proper manufactured intro-tech mechs until quite recently.

Objective Raids 3067, which is a fan product mentions:
Canopus: LCT-5V, STG-6L, WSP-3L, MAD-5L
Dunainshire: LCT-5V, SHD-7M
Detroit: STG-5T, STG-6L, WSP-3L, WSP-7MAF, ABS-3L, ABS-3R, ABS-3T, MHL-X1, MHL-2L, OSR-4L

[ShockaTime]

nice list! thank for the info.

[Maelwys]

Is there anything that indicates they were actually producing the 6L Marauder, or is that just an assumption because they have access to the 6L?

[Neufeld]

Is there anything that indicates they were actually producing the 6L Marauder, or is that just an assumption because they have access to the 6L?

It depends on what the Battlecorps writeup says. TRO3085 says nothing on where it is manufactured.

[Scrollreader]

Looking at the MUL, I was curious to see what people thought of analyzing MoC trends by looking at the mechs there.

For instance, C3 is likely almost non-existent in the MAF.  We have access to only one C3Master, and two mechs with C3 Slaves (we have an additional two omni loadouts with a C3 Slave, and a C3i Buccaneer which is likely to be C3 Slave + GECM, as a minimal adaptation).

We're a little short on artillery support, too.  I'd honestly have expected more, given our use of conventional military forces more than mechs, but while we have a few TAG mechs (particularly among the lighter classes) we have a couple Catapult variants with Arrow IV, and the Po II and Regulator artillery variants.  It's possible this has to do more with the lack of straight up fighting the MoC does.  Even when occupied, they seem to default to a guerilla strategy, and most of their military forces see use against pirates, or as part of Capellan forces (with integral artillery support, I would imagine).

We have a lot of Stealth mechs.  Like ... an awful lot.  This isn't at all /bad/.  But it's very interesting.  (25% of our light and medium mechs (counting variants as options) have stealth armor.

Our Omni-mechs are the Men Shen, the Blackjack-O, and the Raptor, so at least we're picking some decent ones to import.

Also, despite our Periphery Status, we appear to not be going overboard on the Rocket Launchers.  Which is somewhat of a comfort.  Only 6 'mech variants we have access to mount rocket launchers, and they are either on scouting platforms (Locust, Wasp, Anubis ... and Charger) or for some serious back alley bad news (Hunchback).  This, I think, is nicely representative of our status as pretty much the best armed of the periphery states, right now.  As well as our access to decent tech. 


What are your thoughts on the MUL listings, for the MoC?

[Neufeld]

We're a little short on artillery support, too.  I'd honestly have expected more, given our use of conventional military forces more than mechs, but while we have a few TAG mechs (particularly among the lighter classes) we have a couple Catapult variants with Arrow IV, and the Po II and Regulator artillery variants.  It's possible this has to do more with the lack of straight up fighting the MoC does.  Even when occupied, they seem to default to a guerilla strategy, and most of their military forces see use against pirates, or as part of Capellan forces (with integral artillery support, I would imagine).

It looks to me that you are missing several artillery units: Danai Support Vehicle, Chaparral, Demolisher Arrow IV, Mobile Long Tom all shows up when I search for MoC and Periphery general combat vehicles.

[Scrollreader]

... huh.  I must have missed a button in there, somewhere.   Well, that's a bit better then.  I was worried we didn't have much artillery pre-dating the Trinity Alliance. 

[Maelwys]

I think the Magistracy forces are pretty well balanced. They seem to import quite a bit so their forces are eclectic enough that you can go pretty much in any direction with them.

[jimdigris]

I painted some dropships for us: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,14074.0.html

[Maelwys]

Like the paintjobs.

Not so sure about the sculpts :)

[Neufeld]

My reactions the the FM:3085 info.

- The two most glaring errors in the whole Field Manual that I have found so far are in the Canopian section, with the writeup for one regiment missing and another regiment getting placed on a dead planet.

- The note about more focus on aerospace is interesting.

- I am glad that the Iron Hand is rebuilt and is performing well.

- Things seems quiet, too quiet. We know from the Dark Age maps that things will happen, but there is no real clue about how, when and why.

[Maelwys]

My reactions the the FM:3085 info.

- The two most glaring errors in the whole Field Manual that I have found so far are in the Canopian section, with the writeup for one regiment missing and another regiment getting placed on a dead planet.

I missed the dead planet aspect (which one),  though I did notice that the third Highlanders regiment was missing.

- The note about more focus on aerospace is interesting.

You can see it in the TO&E at the end as well. It looks like the Magistracy is trying to add dedicated aerospace units to their units instead of having the majority of their Aerospace units in a pool that's controlled at the highest levels. Considering the loss of the majority of the high command during the Jihad, and the need for aerospace assets by troops spread from the Magistracy to the CapCon, this change isn't that surprising.

What exactly that form is going to be, is a bit harder to tell. Based on unit sized mentioned (some say "Sqd") and the rank of the commander  the Royal Guards each have a Squadron of fighters. The Light Horse have Aerospace units commanded by "Senior Air Master" and "Air Master" two new ranks that the Magistracy hasn't seen before.  Unfortunately none of the units have their sizes noted. However, all the way down at the Canopian Highlanders, we see that they have an Air Master who is incharge of a Wing.

So we've got two options, since the Canopian Highlander's original wing was only 2 Squadrons in size (Way back in the Merc Field Manuals). The first is that the Air Master is the equivalent rank of Major and that the Senior Air Master is more of an honorary rank, like Force Major (presumably new ranks were used  because they didn't want to use the Naval ranks for units attached to ground forces). This means that the Air Masters are controlling Wings, which makes sense (though I doubt they use command lances).

The other option is that the Senior Air Master is an actual position, different from the Air Master. The Air Master would command units two squadrons in size, while the Senior Air Master would command actual Wings. I kind of hope this isn't the case.

Though I suppose it could be a third option now that I think about it. Senior Air Master could be its own Rank, and commands a Regiment of Fighters, while the Air Masters command Wings. I wouldn't mind this, but I'm sort of hesitant to suggest it. On the other hand, if they're cannibalizing their fleet, I suppose its possible that they've managed to get a single unit up to a full regiment of fighters (54).

- I am glad that the Iron Hand is rebuilt and is performing well.

Yup, good news.

- Things seems quiet, too quiet. We know from the Dark Age maps that things will happen, but there is no real clue about how, when and why.

I'm guessing that the majority of loses are due to shrinking due to recently rediscovered planets..though its rather disappointing. I'm also guessing the Independent regiments might cause problems eventually, though I'm surprise that Thraxa goes independent with the Marians right there.

One thing that we still don't know is how the Magistracy is deploying their Battle Armor.  The RAT suggests that only A and B rated units get BA, but are they deploying full regiments, or Battalions or companies or squads? I assume by now its not the pool of BA that they doled out Pre-Jihad.

[Neufeld]

I missed the dead planet aspect (which one),  though I did notice that the third Highlanders regiment was missing.

The Second Canopian Cuirassiers, which the FM3085 claims was stationed on Buenos Aires during the Jihad. Said planet was rendered lifeless by a Blakist bioweapon in 3072.

[Maelwys]

The Second Canopian Cuirassiers, which the FM3085 claims was stationed on Buenos Aires during the Jihad. Said planet was rendered lifeless by a Blakist bioweapon in 3072.

Hmm, I guess I'm a little confused. I thought you meant they were currently station on a dead planet. Being stationed on Buenos Aires just means that they managed to get out of there before the bioweapon hit.

[Neufeld]

Hmm, I guess I'm a little confused. I thought you meant they were currently station on a dead planet. Being stationed on Buenos Aires just means that they managed to get out of there before the bioweapon hit.

The way the entry is written implies that they spent most of the Jihad on the planet.

[Maelwys]

I think maybe the 2nd Canopian Cuirassier writeup in FM3085 is slightly off. Or atleast its seriously conflicting with previous information.

Masters and Minions has the 2nd Canopian Cuirassiers hitting Aspropirgos on the 29th of June, 3073. So the writeup in FM3085 stating that they "lamented missing the opportunity to fight the Blakists as the First Cuirassiers had done" is rather strange.

Buenos Aires was hit on the 28th of March 3072, so I guess maybe under all the data we have, the 2nd should've been on Buenos Aires until pulled off sometime before March 28th (Maybe the raiders hit it when they realized it was undefended?), when it joined a task force that waited around for information on the Shadow Division, which they hit a year later.

[Maelwys]

So another good bit for the Magistracy from FM3085.  While we still don't know how they're deploying BA, and how widespread that deployment is, the Magistracy now has access to quite a few new suits. I doubt they're producing them, but after nearly 2 decades since the start of the Jihad, they've managed to borrow, steal, buy and salvage new designs.

The first is the Tornado G12. Not too surprising that they managed to salvage some from the Blakists. This probably also answers the question if the suits can be re-fitted (either that, or they snagged the production somehow). The model they're using isn't the best, but its a good starter suit. Since its limited to ground movement, pilots familiar with the Theseus should be able to use it without any problem. Due to its slowness, and Camo system, I'd expect to hear about the Ebon Magistrate using these, armed their Ebony Assault Rifles. Or maybe guarding the Magestrix.

The second is the Fa Shih (Support) design. It theoretically gives the Magistracy a medium suit that can jump, and has magclamps so it can be transported without taxing the Magistracy's OmniMechs or infantry transports. Only I'm not sure the weight dedicated to the weapon is worth it. On the plus side, its a medium suit that jumps and you can perform swarm attacks with.

The good news is the standard Fa Shih finally broke ranks from the Capellans. The Magistracy gains use of this specialist suit which will let them deploy minefields on the go in order to thwart raiders and pirates. Its not surprising that the Magistracy finally got access to this suit with their deployments in the CapCon during the Jihad.

Next up is the standard Longinus. Not a bad suit, good for the Magistracy (if a bit expensive). Considering their location and who they were fighting, again, its not that surprising. It will be a solid addition to their forces once they get use to the detachable missile launcher and jumping.

The Achileus is another solid suit, again, not surprising considering who they faced. Again, its kind of expensive, but gives the Magistracy a solid light suit to build on.

Considering how long the Capellans held on to the Fa Shih, its sort of surprising the Magistracy has access to the Ying Long. Then again, when they're resupplying units that fought on Sian, and the commander of those units is the Chancellor's wife, saying "No" to Battle Armor requests might be beyond the CCAF's procurement Division. Another invisible suit for the Magistracy.

The final invisible suit for the Magistracy is the Purifier. One of the staples of the WoB Militia and the early Manei Domini Battle Armor troops, its not surprising that after the Jihad these were all over the place. There's added benefit that the Magistracy might be able to purchase parts from the Republic, depending on how nicely they can gloss over that whole "Allied to the Capellans" bit.

So quite a few new suits for the Magistracy, just based on the FM3085 RATs (And of course the 3 Theseus variants and the standard suits are there). I'm not saying the Magistracy has a lot of them, but they can have enough so you shouldn't feel limited to just the Standard IS suit and the Theseus variants when constructing a post Jihad force.

They're still missing heavy and Assault suits, but I'm sure those will come in time, and for now, they've got a pretty solid basis to start with.

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Fixed some types
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[jimdigris]

Good analysis.  O0

[jimdigris]

The MoC had 11 warships on the eve of the Reunification Wars.  Would anyone care to speculate about its composition?  Bear in mind that the fluff from the Concordat frigate mentioned that it was the "backbone" of the fleet.

[Maelwys]

Well, we can assume atleast one Athena got produced. The Dart and the Pinto are good candidates as well with their fluff. The Wagon Wheel is probably out due to low production numbers. The Winchester is out as well as it doesn't make any mention of exports. We also know that the Concordat served in the Magistracy's Navy.

So, 11 ships, 4 classes (Athena, Dart, Pinto, Concordat) so far.

Interestingly, I'm not sure if this is planned or not, but their weights (that we know) are pretty spread out. There's 280,000 tons between the Pinto and the Concordat, and 240,000 between the Concordat and the Dart. Whether this weight differential translates well into distinct roles, I don't know.

We know the Magistracy ended up with 2 WarShips at the end of the Reunification War, and 9 by 2750, and an amazing 22 by 2765. I'm mostly wondering about the 9. We can assume that they're "legal" since it was before the bulking up of the forces for the uprising, but what were they comprised of? Bought Star League ships? Or did the MoC retain the ability to produce the Athena, much like the RWR retained the ability to produce the Pinto?

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Fixed a number or two
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