Author Topic: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce  (Read 46009 times)

Adrian Gideon

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Hey there folks,

Strategic BattleForce is now up for Open Beta Test. Strategic BattleForce is an expansion to the basic BattleForce ruleset as presented in Strategic Operations (SO) and the Alpha Strike combat system. Like standard BattleForce and Alpha Strike, Strategic BattleForce (SBF) abstracts regular Total Warfare units to a relative handful of stats, exchanging rules detail for ease and speed of play. However, SBF takes this process even further, allowing a player to field entire battalions and even regiments on a battlefield potentially spanning kilometers in distance.

Interstellar Operations Beta – Strategic BattleForce

The .zip file above contains a PDF of the Open Beta: Strategic BattleForce rules, as well as a Excel spreadsheet with sample units as well as templates to convert your own units to SBF scale.

Please use this thread to provide feedback, ask questions and the like.

Please note, this is NOT a thread for specific errata. Use the Errata thread for that.

We're looking forward to getting your feedback. Thanks!



SBF Formations Template Notes
The new Formations Template has been heavily updated. We have included several new sample formations for IS and Clan Battle Armor, conventional infantry and even the WoB Obacus Venatori.

We have also updated the sheet to make most of it automated. Only special abilities are manual entry now and even here we offered some tools to allow you to easily add up and track the most common abilities.
« Last Edit: 16 January 2015, 20:21:39 by Welshman »
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Welshman

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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #1 on: 06 January 2015, 13:30:50 »
Thanks, Ray.

Hi, folks. Looking forward to your feedback on these rules. We really just tried to take AlphaStrike/BattleForce and scale it up so a single playing piece represents a company (Trinary, 2 Level IIs).

This system sits between AlphaStrike/ BattleForce and the Abstract Combat System. Since this was getting written while ACS was in beta, I was able to leverage a lot of feedback from there to here.

All the best,
Joel BC
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Obvious

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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #2 on: 06 January 2015, 19:06:11 »
Do you have any recommended setups for playtesting?  Like X Formations per side, X maps?
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Welshman

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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #3 on: 06 January 2015, 20:11:18 »
As with BattleTech and AlphaStrike, play is intended for 4-12 playing pieces per side. If you go with nine, you have a regiment on each side. We'd of course like to see some combat between IS and Clan as well as Mech vs Vehicle, Infantry and BA. We'll see about providing some prebuilt infantry and BA, though the spreadsheet does help you automate some of the conversion.

Point Value is based on the Alpha Strike Point Value so we expect forces to be fairly balanced if their PV are close.

Best,
Joel BC
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Obvious

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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #4 on: 07 January 2015, 00:15:26 »
In the template spreadsheet, on the IS Template tab, the movement sums in C5 and C6 are currently looking at the wrong fields for their calculations.  Copying and pasting from B5 and B6 will fix the issue.
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Welshman

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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #5 on: 07 January 2015, 00:19:37 »
In the template spreadsheet, on the IS Template tab, the movement sums in C5 and C6 are currently looking at the wrong fields for their calculations.  Copying and pasting from B5 and B6 will fix the issue.

I just opened the template and C5 and C6 are pointing at the same ranges as B5 and B6 (C15:18, C20:23).

Can anyone else verify this?

Obvious, any chance you had a bad cut and paste or drag and drop?
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #6 on: 07 January 2015, 00:24:59 »
I've tossed some pointers for using the SBF Formations Template into the first post.
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Obvious

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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #7 on: 07 January 2015, 01:27:54 »
Obvious, any chance you had a bad cut and paste or drag and drop?

Yeah, that looks like what happened.  Sorry about that.

Question on the U1/2 special abilities:
p31: "U 1/2: Two-thirds (round up) of the Elements must have the Alpha Strike ability."
Should that say "half" instead of "two-thirds"?  Or should it be labelled "U 2/3"?  For formations, it's 2/3.
« Last Edit: 07 January 2015, 01:31:29 by Obvious »
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #8 on: 07 January 2015, 01:33:40 »
Yeah, that looks like what happened.  Sorry about that.

Question on the U1/2 special abilities:
p31: "U 1/2: Two-thirds (round up) of the Elements must have the Alpha Strike ability."
Should that say "half" instead of "two-thirds"?  Or should it be labelled "U 2/3"?  For formations, it's 2/3.

Units are 1/2, Formations are 2/3s
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #9 on: 07 January 2015, 20:30:11 »
Note: the Long Range Attack (L+OV: column S in the templates/examples) calculation should only add OV/2 if the element has the OVL special ability.  (Most Elements don't have this ability.)

Edit: It looks like for the mech companies/trinaries examples, the first lance/star is using S+OV/M+OV/L+OV while the other two lance/stars are using the base S/M/L.  The OV values aren't very big on most of the examples and those numbers are essentially divided by 6, so the final Unit S/M/L values might be off by 1 at worst.


Here's my in-progress attempt at converting a few previously-generated battalions/cluster from a campaign that was being planned (Wolf vs FWL, Dark Ages):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/klwc2vr61vfdog5/SBf%20Formations%20-%20DA%20Washburn.ods?dl=0
Formations not optimized for S:BF.  Just moving some of the elements around should result in more unit/formation special abilities.

On PV alone, the Wolf Cluster is almost twice as strong as the FWL's 1 Mech Battalion, 1 Vehicle Battalion, plus 1 Infantry Battalion+transports.   Guess that's about right.
« Last Edit: 08 January 2015, 22:20:19 by Obvious »
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #10 on: 08 January 2015, 21:41:26 »
I have some comments after having a read through.

Perhaps there could be a middle ground between the full blown Detection and Recon steps and the simplified (roll a 7) variation.  The Not-as-simplified version could use a target number of 7 but then apply all the modifiers (so recon units are better spotters, hiding in woods is a strategy). 

...

Did I get this right that there are actually two Detection and Recon steps every turn? If so then it would be best to make that clear in the Playing the Game summary.

So the turn sequence is then...

Initiative
Detection and Recon 1
Movement
Detection and Recon 2
Combat
End Phase

I find this kind of odd.  Between turns, what really changed between Detection and Recon 2 and Detection and Recon 1?  It seems like by design you get to roll twice per turn to  scan opposing units (assuming a double blind situation).

I'm ok with this for recon scans since those actually cost MP.  But for detection, you are just getting two rolls to scan against all units in sensor range every turn which I would think would make hiding units at the edge of sensor range harder.  Formations are going to get turned into blips easier than the result chart would indicate because you are going to get two rolls per turn.

Unless this was all by design, then ignore me.

...

Ok, I'm trying to get someone to do a test battle with me.  Hopefully I'll have something...  My game time has been limited lately.

If anyone is on the east coast and available ~8PM or so PM me and maybe we can work out a way to play a game over Skype/GChat.  I have some ideas.

Welshman

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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #11 on: 09 January 2015, 00:05:41 »
Yes there are two Visual ID and Recon events in a turn. They are separated by a movement phase.

Detection and Recon:
During this phase you're trying to figure out what things are before you move. If you have a blip to your left and a blip to your right, which one do you move towards. If you find out that the blip to your left is a light tank company and the blip to your right is an assault Trianry, you're probably going after the armor company.

Movement Phase: Secondary Detection:
You've moved, you're now closer to blips you were not before movement. This is a chance to find out what that blip that was too far away to even detect before movement.

Playtest
No, we're not sure there is a value to the second detection phase. That's why we want your opinions.

Best,
Joel BC
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #12 on: 09 January 2015, 04:46:35 »
I'm looking through the PDF and I have a question: is this for the scale at which the planetary maps in the back of the Turning Points PDFs are at, or is that something else?


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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #13 on: 09 January 2015, 09:54:14 »
I'm looking through the PDF and I have a question: is this for the scale at which the planetary maps in the back of the Turning Points PDFs are at, or is that something else?

"One SBF hex is 500 meters (0.5 kilometers), and each turn is three minutes of game time."
Attached is Cairo at roughly 500m hexes.  Just a hex grid overlaid on Google Maps.    I believe the intent is that SBF is still played on standard mapsheets, like BattleForce.  Only a building is a town or district of a large city, etc.
« Last Edit: 09 January 2015, 09:55:46 by nckestrel »
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Welshman

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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #14 on: 09 January 2015, 10:44:15 »
Correct,

The basic Terrain rules cover how to use a standard BattleTech map with Strategic BattleForce.
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #15 on: 09 January 2015, 15:31:29 »
Whoops, missed that bit about a hex being half a kilometer. Which level of things am I thinking of, then?


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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #16 on: 09 January 2015, 15:45:46 »
The Abstract Combat System deals with forces fighting over an entire world, and has an optional rule to use the planetary maps from the Turning Points series rather than a generic map.
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #17 on: 09 January 2015, 16:25:08 »
Groovy!
Gonna try putting some numbers together to see what the Battle of Tukayyid would look like...  While ACS would cover the entire event, SBF MIGHT sufficiently handle an individual campaign/theater...

Regarding the Steel Viper Theater - Looking these over, it might most logical to be broken up to the 3 individual engagements (Kozice Plains, Devil's Bath, and Kozice Station)...
This would result in ~2x12 Unit Clan forces vs ~3x16 Unit ComGuards.

Steel Viper Campaign:
Alpha Galaxy
29 Front-line Units (Trinaries/Binaries/Novas)
Gamma Galaxy
~30 Front-line Units (Trinaries/Binaries/Novas)
Zeta Galaxy
~22 Second-line & Reinforcement Units (Conventional Inf., Veh, Tri/Bi/Nova 'Mech)

ComGuards' 6th Army:

1st, 4th, 6th, 78th, 102nd, 321st, 386th, & 401st Divisions:
=24 Units if L3's, or 144 L2's

Total: ~81 Clan vs 144 ComGuard Units

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Welshman

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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #18 on: 09 January 2015, 19:25:24 »
Hythos- How are you using Unit?

In SBF a Unit is a Lance/ Star/ Level II.

A Formation is the primary game scale and represents one playing piece on the field. It is equal to one Company, Trinary or 2 Level IIs.

Aerospace uses Flights and Squadrons instead of Units and Formations.
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #19 on: 09 January 2015, 21:40:03 »
Thanks Welshman -
That's the thing - there were so many units at Tukayyid, throwing some easy numbers together would indicate if it's possible or not.

Take my example of Devil's Bath, for example.
The initial battle involved about 3 Clusters, and two level-IV's.

This would amount to ~15 Clan Formations vs 12 L-III's; if dividing those L-III's into ~2.5's with 3xL-II's instead of 2, you get:
15 Clan vs 24 ComGuard Formations

If using 1xTrinary/Binary/Nova & 2xL-II's, you get:
16 Clan vs 36 ComGuard Formations

While Clan Steel Viper's engagement was carried across three major battlers, each would be approximately the same, ish.
** Edit - How the heck did I type "Steen Vipers"?
« Last Edit: 09 January 2015, 23:09:04 by Hythos »
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #20 on: 09 January 2015, 22:36:59 »
So one note, which will toss your numbers off some. A ComStar Formation is 2 Level IIs. So 12 Level IIIs is equal to 36 C* Formations.

All scales of BattleTech are optimized for 4 to 12 plating pieces (Units or Formations). So at 24 and 36 you are well outside the optimal envelope. This is more in the Abstract Combat System. Under ACS, Clan Formations remain Trinary (there is logic to this, see below) and C* goes to using Level IIIs.

So Devil's Bath would be 15 Clan Formations vs. 12 C* Formations. This is a more equal battle for init sinking and also better reflects what happened with larger C* Formations facing technologically superior smaller Formations.

For SBF you want to probably move down to a smaller scale, playing out just a part of Devil's Bath.


As to that Logic Thing:
Yes, at TW, AS and SBF levels a single Clan Unit/Formation is higher in BV/PV and overall firepower. One Star of Clan Mechs is equal to a Company of any Inner Sphere pre 3067 or so.

At the ACS level, this flips. Clans do not have huge armies and their tactical doctrine rarely has more than a Trinary working closely together. They also have nothing equivalent to an IS Battalion with the average Cluster being 50-75 Elements.

So at the ACS level we see IS Formations becoming bigger, while Clan Formations stay at Trinary. What then happens is you will have more but smaller Clan Formations against fewer, but larger IS Formations.

We've done some analysis and testing in house on this, and based both on game play and how the Clans exist in BattleTech, we believe this works.

Cheers,
Joel
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #21 on: 09 January 2015, 23:03:48 »
Thanks again Joel -

That's kind of what I was aiming at for SBF:
3 Clusters + 1 Formation of combined Cluster's Command = 15+1 Clan Formations vs 36 ComStar Formations;  this would/could be ideal for a play-group of 4, with one controlling Clan and 3 on ComStar.
The Clan controller would have an odd-number of Formations (say, 4x4 or 12+4) when compared to the "traditional" numbers, but would relegate 12 Formations each to the 3 ComGuard players.
** Edited for clarity (?)
« Last Edit: 09 January 2015, 23:07:21 by Hythos »
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #22 on: 09 January 2015, 23:31:58 »
Well we'd be interested to hear how such a battle goes. It's larger than we envision for SBF, so not sure how long the turns will end up being.

Remember, there is more overhead in an SBF turn with the Detection and Recon phase.

Thanks for looking, look forward to you playing.
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #23 on: 14 January 2015, 17:46:55 »
Hey there folks, just letting you know that we'll be accepting feedback until the end of Tuesday, January 20. We appreciate your participation and help!
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #24 on: 14 January 2015, 23:44:30 »
Im not sure i understand the point of this level of game, is there a type of engagement your going for with this (Raid,Gorilla war, etc.)

Just asking so i know how to playtest it.

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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #25 on: 14 January 2015, 23:55:17 »
Hello,

We are still sorting out the Inner Sphere at War campaign combat framework. We will recommend certain combat systems based on the scale and objective of the fight.

SBF as a stand alone game is designed to represent battles from a battalion to a regiment in size. Many notable battles in BT history have involved a single regiment vs. a single regiment and this scale is perfect for that. If you have the old 4th SW Atlas volumes, those are perfect, as are many of the battles liberating Terra from the Word of Blake.

Best,
Joel BC
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #26 on: 16 January 2015, 20:31:35 »
Developer Update

Hello all,

Dev Errata: Check out the errata thread, we've made some changes to the SBF conversion rules. They should make conversion easier and less open to exploit.

New template: We've attached a completely revamped template and sample formations to the first post in the thread. Check it out, we included the Obacus Venatori for play.

Developer Asks
Finally, in hopes of getting some specific feedback, some questions.

1- Two Detection Phases: We have the Detection Phase and then at the end of the Movement Phase we have a second round.
Question- Is there a value to the second Detection phase?

2- Tactics Check: When determining damage, we have an opposed roll to determine who gets to decide which Unit in a formation is damaged.
Question- What do you think of this? Is it nice to have some control over what gets damaged, or is this just too cumbersome to use.

3- Alpha Strike or BattleForce?: While the game is called Strategic BattleForce, we based much of the rules on Alpha Strike. We did this because AS is both newer and more simplified.
Question- Does this create confusion? Would you not play SBF because you don't own AS but do own SO?

4- References to other rule books: We'll be honest and up front. Pages costs money. When printing a product, the pages cost $ and as the book grows, the $$ slides up faster than the page count as a large book is harder to print. At the same time, we recognize that players having to flip between books is time consuming and not optimal.
Question- Would it be better to have more rules in IO directly, recognizing that a larger book may cost a little more to purchase?

Thanks. That's it for now.
Joel BC
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #27 on: 18 January 2015, 04:55:39 »
Thank you, Joel!
Because of these clarifications/changes, can we have through next weekend to provide feedback? That'll give us one more full weekend to go through things.

From preliminary "tests", it would seem that game-play with 4 players at a regiment each (assume 12 Formations each), will take between 6 and 10 hours of game-play, but it needs one more Satrday go-at it.
Additionally, more time will be needed (for my group) to be able to confirm that a second Detection is even necessary - after the first, a heavy/assault-laden Formation is good to go... No need to worry what's out there; just engage and bust some heads. But, this could be one of those exlpoits you're referring?  Steiner RCT's FTW.
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #28 on: 18 January 2015, 12:42:42 »
We will keep the thread open, just realize I will be working on the rules starting Wednesday.
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Re: Interstellar Operations Open Beta Test: Strategic BattleForce
« Reply #29 on: 18 January 2015, 13:18:47 »
Yep - I figured you have a dead-line. If something glaringly jumps out before you have your final drafts, is it possible to consider responses?
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