Author Topic: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game  (Read 9508 times)

Sartris

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #60 on: 18 March 2019, 00:40:08 »
oh no that's true

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truetanker

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #61 on: 18 March 2019, 00:48:43 »
But your still a Beep Beep... 6/9.

Why I put mine with those 5/8 movers...

TT
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Greatclub

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #62 on: 18 March 2019, 00:58:27 »
In canon, the DC fielded entire companies of panthers. Not the worst possible setup, and contains a lot of PPCs, but kinda inflexible. And slowish. And lacking in armor.

Also DC, the Ravannion Horde units. Admittedly they're big units, 18-30 mechs per company, but they're still entirely 20 ton bugs. Every victory under that setup would likely be Pyrrhic victory.

truetanker

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #63 on: 18 March 2019, 01:30:21 »
Dragon -> Grand Dragon
Panther
Jenner
Spider
Catapult
Warhammer
Archer

Captured:
Hatchetman
Lancelot
P-Hawk

Leased:
Flashman
Thug
Sentinel
Crab

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Kovax

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #64 on: 18 March 2019, 09:59:29 »
If it pleases, might I suggest that all the BJ-1 Blackjacks be replaced by HER-2S Hermes IIs. The Blackjack packs 2 more Medium Lasers, 2 AC/2s, 1 ton more armor, 0.5 tons more structure, and will have the same or better movement mod in anything but clear terrain.
The only advantages for the Hermes II are easy heat scales and slightly better chances of hitting with its Medium Lasers.
S.gage
Sorry, but "same or better movement" is seriously wrong.  The BJ-1 moves 4/6/4, the Hermes II can do 6/9.  You can get a +3 movement modifier on the run with a HER-2S, even with two turns along the way, but you're going to need to jump to pull off that modifier in a Blackjack.  The Hermes can control the range and plink (from enough distance to make the ML disparity meaningless) with its AC/5 (5 damage) while the BJ can only deliver a couple of AC/2 shots (for 4 damage) in reply.

Neither is what I would consider a "great" design by any means, but each has its own area where it's at least competent.  Those areas don't overlap, so choosing one 'Mech over the other is a matter of application.
« Last Edit: 18 March 2019, 10:02:00 by Kovax »

Sartris

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #65 on: 18 March 2019, 10:11:57 »
it's a terrain-dependant evaluation. more woods and hills favor the blackjack where the hermes can't get its tmm as consistently

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S.gage

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #66 on: 18 March 2019, 18:40:28 »
it's a terrain-dependant evaluation. more woods and hills favor the blackjack where the hermes can't get its tmm as consistently

Exactly. Thank you  :thumbsup:
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BloodRose

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #67 on: 19 March 2019, 09:59:16 »
Shogun
85 tons
Mobility profile that wants to be in close
Weapons loadout that wants to stay back
Only marginally more firepower than a Catapult
But nowhere near enough heatsinks to handle it
Unsurprisingly it went virtully extinct and never really came back (a pity too as it does look really nice)

Alternatively Locust LCT-1E or 1S
A 20 tonner built for skirmishing but lacking in anywhere near enough armour to perform. I like the 1V because it is a recon Mech through and through, and the 1M because whilst a trip, strong breeze or squirrel fart will kill it, it does have enough long range firepower to harass well and never need to close, but any variant that encourages the pilot to engage at close range is stupid. bonus points when it sacrifices armour to do so.
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Kovax

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #68 on: 20 March 2019, 08:40:33 »
it's a terrain-dependant evaluation. more woods and hills favor the blackjack where the hermes can't get its tmm as consistently
Granted, if the terrain is mostly contiguous woods or mountain hexes, then a jump-capable design is preferable.  In scattered woods, rolling hills, or typical mixed terrain, the HER-2S will outpace the BJ-1 with ease.  If the BJ-1 does jump, it's generating a +2 modifier (one for distance jumped, one for the jump itself), yet suffering a +3 penalty to its own fire for jumping, while the HER-2S will most likely still develop at least a +2 modifier for running in all but the worst situations.  In MOST situations, I'd consider the BJ-1 or any other 4/6/4 design comparable in average mobility to a 5/8/0, but 6/9 is enough to run through 2 light woods per turn, or make 2 facing changes to weave between the obstacles, and STILL maintain a higher overall speed.  That's not to say that there won't be circumstances where the jump capability will be more important, but not under average conditions.

As pointed out in the previous post, the LCT-1V has that extra bit of armor to withstand a hit from a Large Laser or a rack of LRMs and still keep going, and I've had them shrug off a PPC hit on more than one occasion.  The alternative variants just don't have that durability, and their extra firepower is poor compensation in what should be primarily a recon/spotter role (or for finishing off immobilized, disarmed, or distracted targets).  The -1M is the exception to that, where its primary role is as a light skirmisher, in which case I find it highly questionable that the design didn't drop the defensive ML in favor of an extra ton of armor, since the 'Mech should NEVER engage an enemy at ranges where the ML comes into play.

Sartris

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #69 on: 20 March 2019, 10:18:40 »
as an aside, i don't believe there is such a thing as 'average conditions' in battletech - at least as an ascertainable value. it's just what we're used to playing on. between the large number of official maps people have never played or avoid (river deltas, the big lake, box canyon, map set 7) and those who play on tabletop (which almost certainly have fewer and less varied hills), there are way too many meta variables to separate your sensibilities from what players actually experience across the board.

that's not to say i don't disagree in the case of hermes II vs blackjack - i just pointed out that the hermes II wasn't always the optimal choice. it very well could be in the majority of situations.

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Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
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Kovax

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #70 on: 22 March 2019, 08:28:56 »
that's not to say i don't disagree in the case of hermes II vs blackjack - i just pointed out that the hermes II wasn't always the optimal choice. it very well could be in the majority of situations.
Actually, the BJ just might be the optimal choice over the HER in more frequent tabletop game situations, thanks to its greater ML firepower as an undersized "line" 'Mech.  That's not on account of its mobility, however.  Used as a skirmisher, harassment unit, or heavier element in a light recon lance, the HER will generally be the better choice; used as a pocket heavy or in-fighter, the BJ packs a lot more short-range firepower.  Their roles do not overlap well, so which of them you choose should depend heavily on what you choose if for.

I'll still gladly take either over a SDH-2D (not a totally terrible design against completely unarmed opponents) or CDA (a LCT with a serious weight and cost issue), which are simply inexcusable.

Ruger

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #71 on: 22 March 2019, 09:17:56 »

I'll still gladly take either over a SDH-2D (not a totally terrible design against completely unarmed opponents) or CDA (a LCT with a serious weight and cost issue), which are simply inexcusable.

The CDA-3C isn't so bad...it could be better, but it's not too bad...

Ruger
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Sartris

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #72 on: 22 March 2019, 10:27:30 »
the cicada doesn't get to outgrow its super-locust stigma until it gets an XL engine. the -3F and -3G are both fantastic scouts and raiders


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Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

BloodRose

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #73 on: 22 March 2019, 22:56:02 »
I like the Cicada as a command mech for recon units, but a mainline fighter it is not.
>MOC - 3rd Canopian Fusiliers         >Capellan Confederation - Holdfast Guard
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massey

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #74 on: 23 March 2019, 22:47:11 »
The MSK-6S Mackie x12

snowridr

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #75 on: 25 March 2019, 22:59:45 »
Summonsed by thread necromancy ...  :wheelchair:

W.

I like the Travel Advisor forums; after one year of inactivity threads will auto lock.

rebs

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #76 on: 25 March 2019, 23:43:35 »
Sometimes thread necromancy summons up some entertaining things.  Like the Snow Raven thread. 
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massey

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Re: suggestions for the worst mech company in a 3025 era game
« Reply #77 on: 26 March 2019, 08:44:43 »
Sometimes thread necromancy summons up some entertaining things.  Like the Snow Raven thread.

Sometimes I read a post in a zombie thread, and I say "hey that guy made a really good point".  Then I look and see that "that guy" is me from five years ago, and I don't even remember saying it.

Always good to see that I still agree with me though.