Question About Kuritans and Swordfighting

[Gigastrike]

I'm vaguely aware that Kuritan mech pilots carry swords with them into combat.  Do they actually use them for anything?  Like, if they see an enemy mech pilot walking outside their destroyed mech, would they dismount themselves and challenge them to sword combat?  Or are swords just carried for the sake of having a sword?

On a completely unrelated note, that has nothing to do with the previous question: is the front end of a Dragon large enough to have a sword fight on?  I need to know this for...reasons.

[Weirdo]

They're pretty much status symbols. Sure, if the Kuritan happens to be out of his mech, happens to come across an enemy, and that enemy happens to be carrying a sword of his own(or at least not carrying a gun), he'll use it if he's in the right mood, but remember that at least 80% of the time, the Combine warrior's enemy is not going to be a fellow Kurita samurai. By definition, they are unworthy of the honor of dying in a sword duel.

[jklantern]

Was it the Dragon's Claws that had warriors that intentionally aimed their ejector seats at the cockpits of Clan machines in the hopes that they could still viciously sword the pilots to death in the event that they (the Kuritans) got shot out of their machines?  I feel like I remember that being a thing.  Not a typical thing, mind you, but a hilarious one.

[AlphaMirage]

I'm vaguely aware that Kuritan mech pilots carry swords with them into combat.  Do they actually use them for anything?  Like, if they see an enemy mech pilot walking outside their destroyed mech, would they dismount themselves and challenge them to sword combat?  Or are swords just carried for the sake of having a sword?

On a completely unrelated note, that has nothing to do with the previous question: is the front end of a Dragon large enough to have a sword fight on?  I need to know this for...reasons.

I'm sure that sword fights battle between rival commanders are relatively uncommon but absolutely would happen.  The Wakizashi or Katana sword to a DCMS Mechwarrior is a status symbol (like the spurs of a Davion Mechwarrior) that marks them as a true Samurai so they would totally carry them around if presented an opportunity.  My head-canon actually has a sheath holder built into Kurita Mech cockpits for just this reason.

As for the cockpit of a Dragon being larger enough for a sword fight; I don't think so however the fiction is very inconsistent as to a Mech's cockpit though I don't think any of them are sword fight sized (really tight knife fight sized maybe)

[Kidd]

but remember that at least 80% of the time, the Combine warrior's enemy is not going to be a fellow Kurita samurai. By definition, they are unworthy of the honor of dying in a sword duel.

who said anything about a "duel"?

they're employed in EPW Management SOPs

[Giovanni Blasini]

I remember Shin Yodama had his sword's sheath attached to his survival kit or something, so that when he ejected in his first engagement against the Clans, after his PXH bought it, it came with him.

I expect the plan is that they don't go out of their way to use it while in the cockpit, where it's more symbolic of their societal rank, and only expect to have to use it when out of the cockpit for whatever reason.

What always irritated me was the idea the wakizashi was something special Sun Zhang or similar grads could only carry, but that anyone could carry the katana which is, like, the exact opposite of how it worked historically.  While I figure cultural drift would be part of it, it's still way more practical to carry a short sword in an enclosed compartment than a long sword - for example, try safely storing a katana in a VW Beetle.

(Edit: seriously, autocorrect, why did you capitalize "cockpit"?)

[Tai Dai Cultist]

On one hand they serve as status symbols. About the same practical value of a Davion Mechwarrior's gold spurs on his combat boots.

On a whole different level for some mechwarriors they serve the same purpose of cyanide tablets. Certainly can have their uses in the cockpit.

[Kidd]

What always irritated me was the idea the wakizashi was something special Sun Zhang or similar grads could only carry, but that anyone could carry the katana which is, like, the exact opposite of how it worked historically.

I can see it evolving that way, cause in WW2 the katana became standard officer issue. Perhaps it is likewise in the Combine (can't remember the fluff). So now when anybody carries the katana, naturally the wakizashi became the status symbol.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Plus, Kuritan culture isn't actually based on Japanese culture.

It's based on what this one guy who'd never even been to Terra, much less Japan, thought Japanese culture was.

[Kovax]

On a completely unrelated note, that has nothing to do with the previous question: is the front end of a Dragon large enough to have a sword fight on?  I need to know this for...reasons.

The front end of a Dragon is sloped (unless the 'Mech is leaning slightly backwards), and narrows toward the front.  There seems to be more than enough room for two people to stand, but barely enough to maneuver in a sword duel.  The one closer to the cockpit would have a definite advantage, due to the wider space available to side-step in, no sudden drop-off behind (oops!), and the slightly uphill aspect. The guy toward the front would basically be stuck in place, or with only one small step to either side, and no way to fall back a step (and live through it).  I suppose you could fight there if you were both crazy enough, or had no other choice.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Time for a "I have the High Ground" meme.

[Weirdo]

Plus, Kuritan culture isn't actually based on Japanese culture.

It's based on what this one guy who'd never even been to Terra, much less Japan, thought Japanese culture was.

Very true. I still love a little bit in FM: SLDF about a Star League general who actually was from Japan and descended from actual samurai. He **** hated the Combine and everything it stood for.

[Spinosapper]

The front end of a Dragon is sloped (unless the 'Mech is leaning slightly backwards), and narrows toward the front.  There seems to be more than enough room for two people to stand, but barely enough to maneuver in a sword duel.  The one closer to the cockpit would have a definite advantage, due to the wider space available to side-step in, no sudden drop-off behind (oops!), and the slightly uphill aspect. The guy toward the front would basically be stuck in place, or with only one small step to either side, and no way to fall back a step (and live through it).  I suppose you could fight there if you were both crazy enough, or had no other choice.

Yeah, you gotta watch your step

[ANS Kamas P81]

Well, the Mad Cat's cockpit is big enough that it needs its own escalator...

[Mecha-Anchovy]

Plus, Kuritan culture isn't actually based on Japanese culture.
It's based on what this one guy who'd never even been to Terra, much less Japan, thought Japanese culture was.

Right. It's like the Lyran Commonwealth and German culture, or the Capellan Confederation and Han culture. They're not even really trying to be authentic. What they've done is invent a new, overlayer of culture to use as a symbol to hold together the entire great house. It's a rallying banner.

It's a romanticised ideal of a samurai. Shiro Kurita was clearly a very intelligent person with a genuine passion for Japanese culture, and I wouldn't want to minimise that, no more than I'd minimise Sun-Tzu's genuine attachment to Han culture, or Katherine Marsden's genuine Germanness. But he was remixing. He was taking what he personally thought was best in Japanese culture and adapting to the needs of an interstellar empire.

The Draconis Combine is an evolution on the idea of samurai, or the idea of Japan. But those ideas could have evolved in other ways, or been preserved in different ways.

Very true. I still love a little bit in FM: SLDF about a Star League general who actually was from Japan and descended from actual samurai. He **** hated the Combine and everything it stood for.

Though I'd also bear in mind that that guy, Kaiyo Matsumoto, is also an example of traditional Terran arrogance. We know that Terrans in the Inner Sphere have had a tendency to think of themselves as the source of civilisation and culture, and everyone else as knock-offs. His contempt towards the Combine is interesting because you can see it as both a justified disregard for an interstellar state that's mocked and perverted his heritage and as Terran closemindedness and elitism.

[Kidd]

His contempt towards the Combine is interesting because you can see it as both a justified disregard for an interstellar state that's mocked and perverted his heritage and as Terran closemindedness and elitism.

Bravo!

My honest regards to you sir. That's a very nice, deepish thought behind what is essentially, let's face it, a throwaway joke riffed off of an excuse to field 12-meter tall cyber-samurai battle-bots wielding 5-ton katanas :D

[Kos]

As per the question: Yes all that is possible, if rare in actual practice. In personal experience, my old mechwarrior character was a draconis combine ronin working the periphery as a merc and bandit. I did keep a katana and a shotgun on my ejector seat. However the sword didn't see much use other than as a silent weapon, or for intimidation purposes. I definitely never found anyone to duel with it. The closest I ever came was taking out some toughs with clubs and knives in close combat.

[Mecha-Anchovy]

That's a very nice, deepish thought behind what is essentially, let's face it, a throwaway joke riffed off of an excuse to field 12-meter tall cyber-samurai battle-bots wielding 5-ton katanas :D

I mean, that's important too...  ;)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Very true. I still love a little bit in FM: SLDF about a Star League general who actually was from Japan and descended from actual samurai. He **** hated the Combine and everything it stood for.

Wasn't there a line in the Warrior Trilogy about Draconis Combine officers, invited to Terra for Hanse and Melissa's wedding, went to Japan and basically tried to steal every authentic Japanese item they could?

[haesslich]

Wasn't there a line in the Warrior Trilogy about Draconis Combine officers, invited to Terra for Hanse and Melissa's wedding, went to Japan and basically tried to steal every authentic Japanese item they could?

Not that I recall. The closest thing was Max and the plates.

Edit - just searched the book. It only mentions Japan with Jaime lambasting Takashi, the sword guard  Akira Brahe carried, and discussing how Jasmine Kurita was dressed.

Otherwise the only grabbing is done by Max.

[Terrace]

Wasn't there a line in the Warrior Trilogy about Draconis Combine officers, invited to Terra for Hanse and Melissa's wedding, went to Japan and basically tried to steal every authentic Japanese item they could?

No, I think the only time that happened was during the Liberation of Terra during the Jihad, with Combine units assigned to Japan looting the place after they beat the local Blakist forces.

[Mecha-Anchovy]

No, I think the only time that happened was during the Liberation of Terra during the Jihad, with Combine units assigned to Japan looting the place after they beat the local Blakist forces.

I can't immediately find anything like that in Jihad Hot Spots: Terra...

[Maelwys]

Its mentioned in Total Chaos on page 190

"Allegations regarding the Genyosha and the theft of several ancient Japanese artifacts with connections to the Kurita line are still under investigation by The Republic."

[Tai Dai Cultist]

In my headcanon they stole the Eiffel Tower. After spending several centuries in Tokyo, it's considered a "traditional Japanese icon" to the Kuritans.

[jklantern]

In my headcanon they stole the Eiffel Tower. After spending several centuries in Tokyo, it's considered a "traditional Japanese icon" to the Kuritans.

And honestly, who wouldn't want to steal the Eiffel Tower.  Kurita was the original "supervillain" faction in BattleTech, and this is something all supervillains have to do at least once in their careers.

[glitterboy2098]

And in a surprise twist, the original goal was the Tokyo tower, and they just had a research fail.

[jklantern]

And in a surprise twist, the original goal was the Tokyo tower, and they just had a research fail.

"It's a tower, it's currently NEAR Tokyo, who's gonna know the difference?"

[massey]

I’m of mixed opinions on this.  On the one hand, the concept that Combine culture is based on the ideas of a guy who saw too many episodes of Ninja Turtles is kinda funny.  On the other hand, it’s almost too tongue in cheek.  That drive to explain every little inaccuracy is so much a part of modern analysis that it dates the material as much as the 80s stereotypes did.

You know those 90s horror movies that were so self aware that the characters pointed out things like “hey don’t say ‘I’ll be right back’ because then you’ll die”? This feels like the final evolution of that.  I’d almost rather we just shrug our shoulders and say “in Battletech history, Japan was really like this”.

[haesslich]

Except BT is the future as envisioned in the 1980s. OUR future.

Shiro Kurita was descended from a Japanese naval officer who fought in WW2. But having Japanese descent doesn't mean that he also "inherited" Japanese culture the way he did black hair and epicanthic folds. Especially not when he was born in a colonial world centuries in the future.

So yes, he remade the Combine into what he saw as classic Japan as he wanted it to be. It doesn't mean he got it all correct - no more than Sun-Tzu Liao did when he initiated his reforms following the Second Star League.

[jklantern]

Except BT is the future as envisioned in the 1980s. OUR future.

Shiro Kurita was descended from a Japanese naval officer who fought in WW2. But having Japanese descent doesn't mean that he also "inherited" Japanese culture the way he did black hair and epicanthic folds. Especially not when he was born in a colonial world centuries in the future.

So yes, he remade the Combine into what he saw as classic Japan as he wanted it to be. It doesn't mean he got it all correct - no more than Sun-Tzu Liao did when he initiated his reforms following the Second Star League.

Heck, how many fanboys of CONTEMPORARY cultures TODAY get it wrong?  Never mind fanboys of cultures that were extant a thousand years ago!