Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power

[Death_from_above]

What are the white and red planes on the prow of one of the carriers?

Going by the V-tail, I'd say Fouga Zephyr :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fouga_CM.175_Z%C3%A9phyr

[StoryReader]

Foch and Clemenceau sailing together in 1977

Wow, that's damn sweet - nice pic.

[Garrand]

What are the white and red planes on the prow of one of the carriers?

Fouga CM.170 Magister trainers, I think.

Damon.

[Wrangler]

The Horrors of "modifications" , Modified Gearing-class destroyer USS Carpenter (DDK-825).

The ship was essentially experimented with since by the 1950s rival Navies were essentially not ocean going (yet).  The focus was on anti-submarine & anti-air.  Frankly only thing I like on this ship was the bridge.   There were further mods, essentially leading to the FRAM program.  I'm not sure if this ship was being used for that development.  She got her 5 forward incher back in later refits.



She survived until 1997 in Turkish service as TCG Anittepe (D-347) and then scrapped in 1999.

[Grognard]

PING.
while relocating my office and stuff due to reflooring the house, I came across some really neat framed photos of Tomahawk testing and some 1960s boomers.
Now trying to figure how best to scan the photos for online display.

[Daryk]

Cool!  I hope we get to see them soon! :)

[chanman]

Danish Iver Huitfeldt-class air defence frigate, the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iver_Huitfeldt-class_frigate HDMS Iver Huitfeldt (F361). Pretty chonky ships - 6500 tonnes displacement and almost 140m long with a fairly small crew of 165. Some kind of single-barrel 35mm CIWS over the hangar at the back, and superfiring OTO Melara 3-inchers on the bow

[Daryk]

No missiles??

[chanman]

No missiles??

They're all located midships between radar mast and the funnel. 32-cell Mk. 41 VLS and 4x Stanflex positions immediately forward of the Mk. 41. Each StanFlex position can accept a number of modules, but the most common are either a Harpoon cannisters or a Mk. 56 ESSM VLS

24x ESSM, 16x Harpoons


The center 32 cells are the Mk. 41. The things flanking it are two of the Stanflex positions. In this case, those are ESSM modules (the cylinders are exhausts for the cells) and each of the red-topped rectangular things is a single ESSM (the two combined taking up a single Mk. 57 VLS cell) and in this picture, only 2 ESSMs are loaded. If you look at the above picture, you'll see a full load of ESSMs flanking the exhaust pipes.


I think it's something about the modular VLS that it's only semi-below decks.


So a 100% AAW loadout would be something like 32x SM2-IIIA Standards + 48 ESSMs. It's a little less throw weight than a Type 45 or Hobart, but it's pretty close and the Danes managed to get a really good price on it by basing it on the work done on the older Absalon-class which didn't have the Mk. 41 and went with all-Stanflex modules instead.

[glitterboy2098]

No missiles??

per wikipedia:
    32-cell Mark 41 Vertical Launching System for up to 32 SM-2 IIIA surface-to-air missiles
    12 × Mk.56 VLS fitting 24 RIM-162 ESSM
    8 × Harpoon Block II SSM
    Stanflexs mounts, allowing for: Either additional 12 Mk.56 VLS (for a total 48 ESSMs) Or additional 8 inclined launchers (for a total of 16 Harpoons)
    2 × OTO Melara 76 mm mainguns
    1 × Oerlikon Millennium 35 mm Naval Revolver Gun System CIWS
    2 × dual MU90 Impact ASW torpedo launchers

so it has a fairly heft VLS missile loadout, with a mix of SM-2's and sea sparrows.

[Wrangler]

Missiles are mounted midships

[Daryk]

Didn't see them in the original pics, thanks all! :)

[chanman]

JMSDF dropping the Destroyer Escort category (and probably 'DD' as well) in favour of the frigate designation. I know I wondered why they were FFM in the last thread, but it instead of FFG but it seems like the first six ships are commissioning without VLS, but are fitted for minelaying

Mogami-class




You can make out the rear hatches for minelaying/boat operations and for the towed array sonar under the helipad


They've also been showing models of the supposed successor 'New FFM' project at the Indopacific 2023 expo. https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/indo-pacific-2023/2023/11/mitsubishi-shows-air-warfare-frigate-for-jmsdf/ About the size of the Danish frigate and with a heavier AAW focus

[Daryk]

I get the lack of a main deck for RCS reduction, but it just makes ships look so ugly... :P

[I am Belch II]

The ships are so less cluttered over a US ships. The Constellation FFGs being built are very not stealthy.

[Colt Ward]

Mothballed ships at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard at Bremerton, Washington, in August 1992.
Hornet (CVS-12) with three minesweepers is on the left, New Jersey (BB-62) with two Knox-class frigates is on the right.

[chanman]

The ships are so less cluttered over a US ships. The Constellation FFGs being built are very not stealthy.

Something about US Navy requirements seems to require the big cluttered mast compared to other contemporary designs. Even the small, ostensibly stealthy LCS designs have fairly busy masts, even when compared to big AAW destroyers like the Type 45, Type 055, or the  Iver Huitfeldt-class and Mogami-class frigates I posted earlier.

The Zumwalts seem to have their antennae farm better shrouded, but those ships also have that massive superstructure. I do wonder about the impact of high crosswinds on that.

Zumwalts




Type 45



Not sure if it's just area of operations or what, but most Type 055 images I find are of hull 101, Nanchang



A seriously weathered USS Coronado (decommissioned last year)

[nerd]

LCS-2 class is unpainted, and just left the aluminum to weather. I'm not sure about why, as I've never been to San Diego or LCSRON1

[I am Belch II]

The Zumwalt's will look better when they get rid of the useless gun turrets and more VLS for hypersonic missiles.

[Wrangler]

Are they hypersonic Missiles actually as useful?  They're type Strategic weapon, they've not (hopefully won't) seen combat aside of the Russians.   

Frankly converting the Zumwalts to be able fire weapon (not publicly) not been fleshed out yet seems foolish to me.  It would make them just as semi-useful ships. Eventually, US and it's allies will have hypersonic weapons, but there no sign of them right now.  Most weapons that been noted so far, have been air launched ones.  I'm puzzled what missile is intended to be used, since none been shown to be ship launch capable as of this moment I can find.

[glitterboy2098]

Are they hypersonic Missiles actually as useful?  They're type Strategic weapon, they've not (hopefully won't) seen combat aside of the Russians.   

Frankly converting the Zumwalts to be able fire weapon (not publicly) not been fleshed out yet seems foolish to me.  It would make them just as semi-useful ships. Eventually, US and it's allies will have hypersonic weapons, but there no sign of them right now.  Most weapons that been noted so far, have been air launched ones.  I'm puzzled what missile is intended to be used, since none been shown to be ship launch capable as of this moment I can find.

wouldn't be the first time they were engineered to make use of a weapon that only existed on paper. the main reason they're discussing adding VLS cells and such is because the Advanced Gun system it was designed to carry never got off the ground. at least with the VLS cells, the design should be adaptable to fire conventional cruise missiles, heavy antiship missiles, and perhaps even clusters of Standard Missiles.
my understanding is that they're adapting the modular payload system off the BlockIII and Block IV virginia class subs for it, and the Block V virginia's with the stretched hull and extra payload module mounts amidships are meant to carry the same missiles. the current virginia's can use those payload mounts for carrying seven Tomahawks per mount, and potentially SLBM's. if so, fitting a few of them to the Zumwalts will let them be a lot more flexible.. and i have no doubt that the USN can work up some versions which can carry SM series missiles or even sea sparrows they can slot into the payload silos.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I thought the Navy was trying to find ways to equip more ships with guns due to them being cheaper on the ammo budget than missiles.

[marauder648]

wouldn't be the first time they were engineered to make use of a weapon that only existed on paper. the main reason they're discussing adding VLS cells and such is because the Advanced Gun system it was designed to carry never got off the ground. at least with the VLS cells, the design should be adaptable to fire conventional cruise missiles, heavy antiship missiles, and perhaps even clusters of Standard Missiles.
my understanding is that they're adapting the modular payload system off the BlockIII and Block IV virginia class subs for it, and the Block V virginia's with the stretched hull and extra payload module mounts amidships are meant to carry the same missiles. the current virginia's can use those payload mounts for carrying seven Tomahawks per mount, and potentially SLBM's. if so, fitting a few of them to the Zumwalts will let them be a lot more flexible.. and i have no doubt that the USN can work up some versions which can carry SM series missiles or even sea sparrows they can slot into the payload silos.

Yeah the modular payload system will allow them to fire any missile in the inventory, you could even have them firing HIMARS rockets or ATACMS and its replacement if needed, and this will probably be rolled out across the fleet.

[Daryk]

Gun ammo gets real expensive real fast when you start strapping rocket propulsion and guidance packages to the shells...

[I am Belch II]

I think the VLS tubes that will replace the Guns on the Zumwalt will be configurable for either the Hypersonic weapons or standard VLS tubes for whatever wants the need is. The new DDG-X is supposed to have that modification, and the Block 5 Virgina SSN will have that too. Hypersonic weapons might be the next big thing. Russians and China are further down the Hypersonic deployment road than the US and the west. Remember the Rail Gun was a thing....until it wasn't
The Advanced Gun System guided ammo ended up costing more than a TLAM and way less capable. I guess the guided rounds in the 155 howitzers tech couldn't transfer to the 155mm of the AGS.

[Colt Ward]

The German Kaiser-class dreadnought battleship SMS Prinzregent Luitpold being towed back to Rosyth, keel uppermost.

This is one of many German ships sunk by her crew in Scapa Flow in 1919 after the fleet had surrendered in November 1918.

Although they were scuttled to prevent Allied Forces from using the vessels, some were salvaged and used for scrap metal to manufacture British armaments.

[Daryk]

That's quite a feat for 1919!

[glitterboy2098]

I guess the guided rounds in the 155 howitzers tech couldn't transfer to the 155mm of the AGS.

they could have, but apparently the navy wanted some features on the AGS's reloading system that prevented the ammo from being cross compatible. basically its man flaw was the AGS would have required proprietary ammunition not compatible with anything else in nato.

[I am Belch II]

they could have, but apparently the navy wanted some features on the AGS's reloading system that prevented the ammo from being cross compatible. basically its man flaw was the AGS would have required proprietary ammunition not compatible with anything else in nato.

The range was a lot shorter, I think the Army Version has a range of 25 miles, and the AGS wanted a 100 miles.

[Daryk]

That definitely requires strapping rockets to the shell...