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BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: Demon55 on 10 May 2018, 23:19:56
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I have found myself becoming increasingly interested in this Clan. I like that they are advertised as pragmatists and seeing Kerensky as a good general instead of someone to be practically worshiped.
What are you thoughts on them?
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They are a microcosm of the Star league represented by a single Clan.
Combined Arms, Total War Types. However very pragmatic.
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Clan Davion is one of their nicknames.
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In 3067 they are pretty strong numbering the highest besides my Ghost Bears: after the Wars of Reacing they are the only remaining Homeworld Clan. The others are just puppet states because the Star Adders outnumber them all two to one.
Now originally they had one of the best former SLDF commanders as their Founder... then he died five minutes into Klondike but his replacements were spectacular as well.
They absorbed the Burrocks and smacked the Blood Spirits around when they tried to interfere.
The Burrocks rose up again and they smacked them down again... this time permanently. They then did a three part Trial for those Burrocks still pledging loyalty to them to make sure their was no third time.
Oh yeah and their fleet had the Warship William S Preston.
And their Khan beat the Steel Viper IlKhan to death with his ceremonial mask in the Grand Council chambers. After of course the IlKhan shot the previous Star Adder Khan in the face with a hidden laser pistol five minutes previous.
Not my favorite Clan but man do they have some interesting things going on for them.
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If you have to summarize them in one word, pragmatic works, but there's more depth to it than that.
They're the only clan to practice all the clan ideals, instead of picking and choosing as it suited them.
The other castes are true members of the clan with their own channels for having their voices heard, unlike some other clans where non-warriors are treated as little more than slaves. There may be rivalries among warriors, but no animosity. They'll fight like siblings do, but at the end of the day they're all on the same side. This same sense of camaraderie runs through all the castes, they all know they're working together for a common goal.
In battle they know that it's important to objectively assess the enemy, plan strategically and not just tactically, and consider the logistics needed for the entire campaign, not just the upcoming battle. All are lessons clan Smoke Kzinti should have learned before practicing what the more intelligent members of that race derisively called 'scream and leap'. Thanks to this professional approach to warfare they correctly predicted the clan invasion would fail due to being unprepared and undermanned. They understand that warriors may win personal glory, but soldiers are who win wars.
They were one of only two clans to win during the Great Refusal and they're the dominant power among the remaining homeworld clans, obviously they're doing something right.
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Everything is going to their plans. Everything.
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The opening fictional blurb in the Operation Revival Trials shows the Adder Khan at the time giving an impassioned speech about how the Clans in their entirety should invade the Inner Sphere. Give each Clan a dedicated role, so that they can cover each other's weak points, and they'll more likely be successful.
Nearly every single other Khan decries this as the stupidest thing they've ever heard in their life, and the Adder Khan feels a little crushed by this. Ulric Kerensky doesn't say anything but gives the Adder Khan a knowing look.
Ulric being a planner himself, it would make sense that he respects the Adders (who plan for EVERYTHING). But I felt like there was something deeper going on. My current headcanon is that Ulric wasn't, strictly speaking, a Warden. He was an Adder Style Crusader: if we're gonna do this thing, we're gonna do it right. I kinda want to believe that Ulric and the Adders possibly had an alliance in the works. Maybe they worked it out so that the Adders were the back up plan for when the Invasion started to fall apart. Because once the Invasion starts, Clan society starts changing, and the dominoes start to fall, leading to the Wars of Reaving, which lead to the Adders being on top.
But that's probably me reading too much into it. I do enjoy the idea that there are some Clans who are/were playing their own long-cons. And that several Clans who thought they were clever (Ravens, and ESPECIALLY the Vipers) weren't nearly as clever as they thought, being outplayed by people like the Sharks, Coyotes (who I maintain are still up to some kind of long plan, possibly with Wolf assistance), and the Adders.
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Major accomplishments include, picking on smaller clans! Letting others do the dirty jobs for them. Need extra votes? Create a smaller clan that's beholden to you.
Can't beat that smaller Clan? Hold up the ethos of the clans while you orbitally bombard them back to the war of ages.
Tho to be fair don't hate the clanner hate the bid. There's a good reason they came out ahead and that's because they think of tomorrow not today.
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Of all the Clans they are more a modern professional soldiers`army than totem-worshipping machos.
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Clan White bread, nothing that really sets them apart or makes them special.
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Clan White bread, nothing that really sets them apart or makes them special.
Nothing? As far as i see they are the only clan that set pragmatism and tactics above personal honor.
They use whatever they have and is needed to make their progress. Learning on the way - like they improved their infantry assets after the Burrock absorption. They adapt and they prosper. Nothing you can say about many other clans.
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The opening fictional blurb in the Operation Revival Trials shows the Adder Khan at the time giving an impassioned speech about how the Clans in their entirety should invade the Inner Sphere. Give each Clan a dedicated role, so that they can cover each other's weak points, and they'll more likely be successful.
Nearly every single other Khan decries this as the stupidest thing they've ever heard in their life, and the Adder Khan feels a little crushed by this. Ulric Kerensky doesn't say anything but gives the Adder Khan a knowing look.
Ulric being a planner himself, it would make sense that he respects the Adders (who plan for EVERYTHING). But I felt like there was something deeper going on. My current headcanon is that Ulric wasn't, strictly speaking, a Warden. He was an Adder Style Crusader: if we're gonna do this thing, we're gonna do it right. I kinda want to believe that Ulric and the Adders possibly had an alliance in the works. Maybe they worked it out so that the Adders were the back up plan for when the Invasion started to fall apart. Because once the Invasion starts, Clan society starts changing, and the dominoes start to fall, leading to the Wars of Reaving, which lead to the Adders being on top.
But that's probably me reading too much into it. I do enjoy the idea that there are some Clans who are/were playing their own long-cons. And that several Clans who thought they were clever (Ravens, and ESPECIALLY the Vipers) weren't nearly as clever as they thought, being outplayed by people like the Sharks, Coyotes (who I maintain are still up to some kind of long plan, possibly with Wolf assistance), and the Adders.
I like this idea...almost like a "what if" kinda thing going on.
As far as Demon55's question, it's actually hard to sum up Clan Star Adder with anything other than a "Planning" clan. They plan for pretty much everything like it's already been said. Probably one of the most intelligent and cunning clan there is. I wish we could see a LOT more written about them...but in the same regard, there is a lot already written about them in parts. If you take all the parts and sum them up into a whole...
It's one heck of a Clan to be proud of!
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As a Blood Spirit player, I dislike them intensely, of course.
As a Clan player, I begrudgingly hope that when they return, they smash their foes and bring the Inner Sphere under their rule as the ilClan.
As a BattleTech player, I find them rather bland and boring because they excel at everything they do, like the FedSuns.
Speaking as just me, they have some units I like (the 1st Star Sentinels, Quasar Keshik, the entirety of Beta Galaxy, and a few others). And their Khans (Hannibal and Stanislov, per their WoR pictures) are very attractive. :D
Oh, and bless them for the beauty and wonder that is the Blood Asp.
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Also as a Blood Spirit I consider them Dezgra dogs that should be put down with prejudice.
But beyond that I will note they were among the smarter and more effective forces in the Homeworlds and with the Burrock Absorbtion they were the size of the Invading Clans and even did a good job managing there recently absorbed troops and using the Blood Spirits to train there new troops to be effective. And seriously, they had all the luck. But to me there also almost a Inner Sphere force. Not much sets them apart other than that there a Clan of Kerensky. I honestly hope they invade in the 3150's and the Ghost Bears smash them to pieces though.
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Clan Davion is one of their nicknames.
Clan White bread, nothing that really sets them apart or makes them special.
Sounds about right.
They do have a special flavor of arrogance that is interesting, and crops up in the previously mentioned OTP: Revival Trials intro and in the early part of Wars of Reaving. Adders think that they're the smartest, know that they're the smartest, and are so baffled and enraged why no one else can see that they are the best at everything. Makes me appreciate that time they voted against the renewed invasion they worked so hard for simply because someone else was going to lead it.
The stories of Absalom Truscott from the Operation Klondike supplement helped create more depth to the clan, from my perspective.
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As a Clan player, I begrudgingly hope that when they return, they smash their foes and bring the Inner Sphere under their rule as the ilClan.
Sadly I don't see this ever happening. The Clans had their one chance, and in typical Clan fashion they squandered it in pursuit of personal glory.
There are only 4 homeworld Clans remaining, and while they have access to the resources of all the original Clans they don't have the population or the miltary those 17 had at the time of the invasion so they can't be considered equal. Just spitballing numbers I'd say calling each equal to two of the original invading clans is being generous, though they now have far less warships.
So the equivalent of 8 Clans, vs the 7 of the original invasion which failed. Not enough to make a difference to the outcome even if this was still 3050. In addition the massive tech advantage of Operation Revival has been lost, putting the IS on an equal footing. With equal technology I'm not sure the original 17 could have won vs an Inner Sphere working together, the industrial and numerical difference is too great.
The situation gets even worse when you consider that the Inner Sphere also has 6 Clans living there who would most likely object to a new invasion, plus one more who would gleefully sell weapons to all sides. Two of those might be convinced to join an invasion, but the rest are integrated enough into the IS politically that they would defend their new homes. I'd say a second Clan invasion is in a far weaker position than the first one.
A more likely scenario is an invasion *from* the Inner Sphere.
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They may finally take the evolutionary step (for Clanners) to leave the Inner sphere to their degra fate and build a new interstellar realm and so get rid of any of the old Star League and Inner Sphere restrictions which have kept the Clans stagnated for so long.
Maybe something like the Ousters (of Dan Simmons Hyperion saga), but more militaristic.
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We dont know how the homeworlds changed after the WoR. There is lot of time to make some interesting weapon developments, time to breed and train new units, time to rebuild their fleets and whatever the writers need to make an invasion interesting - if that is the plan. But we dont know the plans.
For what we know at the end of the WoR the Star Adders stand as the powerhouse of the remaining clans and have all the opportunities to dictate the next steps.
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ilClan is on the way, and it’s been expanded to become a larger event that previously planned. So I think I’ll just remain optimistic. :)
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Like most Homeworlders, the Adders can now be portrayed as rather whacky extremists post-WoR, illogically and ironically buying into the ridiculous Spheroid "Taint" goofiness actually started their defeated Viper enemies. If modern Adders are not xenophobic Bastions, then they're genocidal Aggressors. Neither philosophy is particularly well-suited to the practical, level-headed, long-term planners and strategists that the Adders have traditionally been portrayed as. Change may be a coming...
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Like most Homeworlders, the Adders can now be portrayed as rather whacky extremists post-WoR, illogically and ironically buying into the ridiculous Spheroid "Taint" goofiness actually started their defeated Viper enemies. If modern Adders are not xenophobic Bastions, then they're genocidal Aggressors. Neither philosophy is particularly well-suited to the practical, level-headed, long-term planners and strategists that the Adders have traditionally been portrayed as. Change may be a coming...
Could you expand on that, please?
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Could you expand on that, please?
The Bastion/Aggressor philosophies have supplanted the old Warden/Crusader political factions within the Home Clans. In a nutshell, Bastions believe in protecting the Clans from the taint of the Inner Sphere, and Aggressors believe in wiping out the taint violently. See the Wars of Reaving Supplemental for more details.
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The Bastion/Aggressor philosophies have supplanted the old Warden/Crusader political factions within the Home Clans. In a nutshell, Bastions believe in protecting the Clans from the taint of the Inner Sphere, and Aggressors believe in wiping out the taint violently. See the Wars of Reaving Supplemental for more details.
Maybe it is time for me to order some BT books, quiaff?
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The Bastion/Aggressor philosophies have supplanted the old Warden/Crusader political factions within the Home Clans. In a nutshell, Bastions believe in protecting the Clans from the taint of the Inner Sphere, and Aggressors believe in wiping out the taint violently. See the Wars of Reaving Supplemental for more details.
Something more differently.
Both philosophies believe that the Inner Sphere is hopelessly corrupted.
The Bastions want to protect the way of the Clans (and therefore the Homeworlds) with isolation from the Inner Sphere.
They are somewhat Neo-Wardens. However, not to protect the Inner Sphere anymore but the Homeclans.
The Aggressors rather want a preemptive strike against the Inner Sphere and crush any possible threat, that the IS might be for the Homeclans. And this without any limits of Clan-style warfare, meaning Total War.
Long term this could mean that the Homeclans will abandon the revival of the Star League in the Inner Sphere and begin to foorm their own new society, going new ways.
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Something more differently.
Both philosophies believe that the Inner Sphere is hopelessly corrupted.
The Bastions want to protect the way of the Clans (and therefore the Homeworlds) with isolation from the Inner Sphere.
They are somewhat Neo-Wardens. However, not to protect the Inner Sphere anymore but the Homeclans.
The Aggressors rather want a preemptive strike against the Inner Sphere and crush any possible threat, that the IS might be for the Homeclans. And this without any limits of Clan-style warfare, meaning Total War.
Long term this could mean that the Homeclans will abandon the revival of the Star League in the Inner Sphere and begin to foorm their own new society, going new ways.
This maybe a gross oversimplification but that sounds like giving the IS a large scale version of what Operation Serpent/Bulldog did to Huntress or a worse version of the Succession Wars.
I am sure a lot of Clanners do not appreciate the fact that some if not most of Vlad Ward's predictions of what would happen with the IS came true.
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I am sure a lot of Clanners do not appreciate the fact that some if not most of Vlad Ward's predictions of what would happen with the IS came true.
I'm sure pointing this out to most Clanners would be a good way to get shot in the face. At best.
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The S'adders? They're just Clan Burrock 2.0. The Burrocks have infested their ranks and will rise from the ashes... um... AGAIN!
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The S'adders? They're just Clan Burrock 2.0. The Burrocks have infested their ranks and will rise from the ashes... um... AGAIN!
Well their ashes are still high in the sky ...
I am sure a lot of Clanners do not appreciate the fact that some if not most of Vlad Ward's predictions of what would happen with the IS came true.
Vlad and his Wolves did their best to make these predictions happened.
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The S'adders? They're just Clan Burrock 2.0. The Burrocks have infested their ranks and will rise from the ashes... um... AGAIN!
Heretic
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The opening fictional blurb in the Operation Revival Trials shows the Adder Khan at the time giving an impassioned speech about how the Clans in their entirety should invade the Inner Sphere. Give each Clan a dedicated role, so that they can cover each other's weak points, and they'll more likely be successful.
Nearly every single other Khan decries this as the stupidest thing they've ever heard in their life, and the Adder Khan feels a little crushed by this. Ulric Kerensky doesn't say anything but gives the Adder Khan a knowing look.
Ulric being a planner himself, it would make sense that he respects the Adders (who plan for EVERYTHING). But I felt like there was something deeper going on. My current headcanon is that Ulric wasn't, strictly speaking, a Warden. He was an Adder Style Crusader: if we're gonna do this thing, we're gonna do it right. I kinda want to believe that Ulric and the Adders possibly had an alliance in the works. Maybe they worked it out so that the Adders were the back up plan for when the Invasion started to fall apart. Because once the Invasion starts, Clan society starts changing, and the dominoes start to fall, leading to the Wars of Reaving, which lead to the Adders being on top.
But that's probably me reading too much into it. I do enjoy the idea that there are some Clans who are/were playing their own long-cons. And that several Clans who thought they were clever (Ravens, and ESPECIALLY the Vipers) weren't nearly as clever as they thought, being outplayed by people like the Sharks, Coyotes (who I maintain are still up to some kind of long plan, possibly with Wolf assistance), and the Adders.
I don't know about behind the scenes deals so much as Ulric knew that Revival was not going to be the 1 sided trouncing of the IS that the Jags/Falcons just assumed it would be. He looked at the Adder Khan knowing that it was a good idea to send them all if they had real hope of actual success in dominating the entire IS.
Interesting thoughts on those clans with a long view v/s a short view & those that just think they have a long view.
Long View Clans ? = Adders, Sharks, Wolves + Bears?, Coyotes?, Scorpions?
Mid? View Clans = Ravens, Vipers + Cobras?, Spirits?, NovaCats?
Short View Clans ? = Falcons, Hellions, Jaguars, Mandrils + Burrocks?, Horses?