Author Topic: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?  (Read 4501 times)

Doom

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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #30 on: 08 March 2019, 12:26:34 »
If another box set comes out, hopefully there will be more pilot cards. And not just for 'Mechs, but for tanks and other vehicles.

Colt Ward

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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #31 on: 08 March 2019, 12:32:27 »
Stealth Armor effects and heat are not on the sheet IIRC.

RS do not tell you that a RE Laser ignores whatever armors or has a -1 TH.  Heck, they do not tell you that plain MPL get a -2 TH.  And I have not seen one that handles the options on a Variable Speed PL either.

The main point, IMO, is that I cannot take a Shockwave or Ghost and play with those mechs as a Clan Invasion era battle unless they are proxies.  They are also not as recognized.
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Sartris

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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #32 on: 08 March 2019, 12:37:47 »
from my experience not everyone memorizes stat blocks and hates having to look at their record sheet all the time. Especially when you have eight and have to page through them. There’s also the issue of facing dozens of different weapons and keeping straight what hundreds of variants run. It’s challenging enough in the clan invasion but hundreds of chassis and a not insignificant percentage of the variants come in the jihad and after.

When pace of play is a major issue, these are not desirable conditions to have to overcome. I had some players jump in on my 3145 campaign a couple years ago. It was little wonder they never came back despite seeing them in the store on multiple occasions.

For example, swap out the Shadow Hawk and Wolverine for a Ghost and a Shockwave.  I promise, it won't be the end of the world.

And I promise you won’t sell nearly as many boxes. If you ran a poll asking if people would rather have a classic Phoenix hawk or a ghost in the next box I don’t think it would be close.

A not insignificant portion of people coming in have cited the newest pc game and/or coming back from a long hiatus. They don’t want the dark age.

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RoundTop

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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #33 on: 08 March 2019, 12:45:19 »
A lot has been made of the complexity of the Dark Age.  From my perspective, unless you customizing or designing entirely new units, all the information needed to play is on the provided record sheet.  Even if there are "eight different medium lasers", if the heat, range and damage is on the record sheet, how does that make it more complex?  When playing off the provided sheet, what do the behind the scenes mechanics of XL Gyros or Partial Wings matter?  As an introduction, the focus is on the mechanics of movement, line-of-sight, attack and heat.  So what if one 'Mech has a Medium Pulse Laser and another has an ER Medium Laser?  I don't see it as an insurmountable issue.

For example, swap out the Shadow Hawk and Wolverine for a Ghost and a Shockwave.  I promise, it won't be the end of the world.

RE-engineered lasers do full damage to special armors, and a -1 to hit (I believe)
Heavy lasers have +1 to hit
Improved heavy lasers don't have +1 to hit
Partial Wings dissipate 6 heat (in addition to boosting your jump distance) and don't generate more heat for that extra jump distance (from my understanding)

That is just some of the extra rules that are not on the sheet, from the example given.  So while ER lasers are easy and on the page - pulse (-2), heavy (+1), RE (special damage), VSP (-3/-2/-1) are all not on the page.
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Colt Ward

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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #34 on: 08 March 2019, 12:51:35 »
And imp HLs explode when crit- which is also not on the sheet.

Thought RE Lasers did not do that damage to reflective armor?  Just Hardened, BallRef, and Ferro-Lam?
Colt Ward
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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #35 on: 08 March 2019, 13:04:45 »
Another sheet issue not highlighted, if accidentally  ;)

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SteelRaven

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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #36 on: 08 March 2019, 13:18:46 »
I thought the Starter Books did a great job bridging time gap between 'intro' era and more current era. As fans, we can always recommend the PDFs in the CGL store. Fiction wise, Legacy does a brilliant job following a Mech from era to era.     

That said; the HBS Battletech game is set in 3025 era, the upcoming MW5 is also in the 3025 era so allot of new players will be comfortable in 3025 (MW2 is what got me to the table top and why I'm a fan of Clan Wolf)   
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Crimson Dawn

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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #37 on: 08 March 2019, 14:31:25 »
And imp HLs explode when crit- which is also not on the sheet.

Thought RE Lasers did not do that damage to reflective armor?  Just Hardened, BallRef, and Ferro-Lam?

The fact even we have to ask these sort of questions shows the issues of making a box set for a wide market with some of these more esoteric equipment.


Personally as a newer player I would love an expansion set sort of thing that maybe had more terrain, a few mechs, but added vehicles and infantry.  Tie it in to the first box sets, make sure the mechs chosen are really desirable, and then load it with cool vehicles.  You get to make the previous box sets even better, you can get some more mechs, and you can add tanks, vtols, infantry, and maybe artillery.  I think that could add a lot.

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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #38 on: 08 March 2019, 14:48:57 »
Using Reflective Armor, or re-engineered lasers, as an example...

How many stock BattleMechs utilize these technologies?  Sure, they are considered "standard" technology as of the Dark Age, but I was never suggesting the Templar III Alt D as an appropriate choice for the box set.  There are viable Dark Age BattleMechs that *could* work, that was my point. 

Of course, with 35 years of history behind the franchise, something like the Shockwave will never be as iconic as a Warhammer, but to be fair, it will likely never be given the opportunity to achieve that status either.  The Tundra Wolf, maybe the Jupiter, may be as recognizable as a true Dark Age BattleMech gets.  But, if CGL is committed to advancing the timeline, as it appears they are, they need to provide a pathway for both the existing and new player base to get there with them.

I'm not advocating this theoretical box set include rules for *all* of the technology theoretically available in the Dark Age, nor even the construction rules for that matter.  Simply a selection of era-appropriate 'Mechs operating in the chaos of a collapsing Republic of the Sphere.  Bannon's Raiders, Stormhammers, Swordsworn, Dragon's Fury are all fairly well-developed and interesting factions, not to mention Sea Foxes or the Steel Wolves.

Even I can only retread the Fourth Succession War so many times before it just becomes stale and, frankly, a bit boring and limited.

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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #39 on: 08 March 2019, 14:58:39 »
I think you are missing something . . . we are not saying we eventually (as in 4 or 5 down the road) will not get a Dark Age expansion box BUT . . . you make expansion boxes that stack or are a pyramid.  We got a Starter box that had a pair of mechs, a simple map and simple rules.  We also got the GoAC box as the same time, with more mechs, more complicated maps, and full 3025 rules afaik.  This ties in with the just released BattleMech Manual and TRO Succession Wars.

Next box should build on that . . . and we are getting a TRO Clan Invasion.  So, next box should introduce the next layer of weapons- Star League & their Clan counterparts.  So Clan mechs and maybe recognizable Invasion era mechs.  Another map, rules for weapons that will be in TRO Clan Invasion.  And Elementals IMO, since they are easily idenfitied with the Clans.

Then we have the following eras . . . Civil War (TRO for this hinted at?), Jihad, Early Republic, Late Republic and Dark Ages . . . all of which build on the foundations of what went before.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Sigil

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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #40 on: 08 March 2019, 15:07:05 »
I think you are missing something . . . we are not saying we eventually (as in 4 or 5 down the road) will not get a Dark Age expansion box BUT . . . you make expansion boxes that stack or are a pyramid.  We got a Starter box that had a pair of mechs, a simple map and simple rules.  We also got the GoAC box as the same time, with more mechs, more complicated maps, and full 3025 rules afaik.  This ties in with the just released BattleMech Manual and TRO Succession Wars.

Next box should build on that . . . and we are getting a TRO Clan Invasion.  So, next box should introduce the next layer of weapons- Star League & their Clan counterparts.  So Clan mechs and maybe recognizable Invasion era mechs.  Another map, rules for weapons that will be in TRO Clan Invasion.  And Elementals IMO, since they are easily idenfitied with the Clans.

Then we have the following eras . . . Civil War (TRO for this hinted at?), Jihad, Early Republic, Late Republic and Dark Ages . . . all of which build on the foundations of what went before.

If that was the roadmap, I'd be in heaven :)  Well said. 

Kilderkin

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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #41 on: 08 March 2019, 19:48:16 »
I agree expansions should move the timeline forward. But I believe the next one should be intro tech still and add the rest of the nuseen classics. These mechs make up the bulk of forces for 3025-3049. Then introduce clan tech.

Catalyst were able to ship two box sets almost at the same time, we could see a clan box and merc box within a short time frame. Would be nice to avoid years between products.

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Re: What's in the hypothetical future box(set)?
« Reply #42 on: 09 March 2019, 02:06:15 »
I think what they have in the 2 current boxed sets is fine.   2 Mechs in the "starter" and 8 in the "full rules" is great.

For everyone that says they don't need Tanks/PBI,  I would simply say, we had this thing back in the day called "CITYTECH" and I think most people loved it.

My point is that I'm fine w/ adding in Tanks/PBI, but it should be as an Expansion, not as a next edition of AGoAC.

I could also see a clan boxed set too.   Though clan unit sizes makes for a hard to match size issue.

For a new "Cititech" I would go with 4 or 8 mechs,  and then add in 8 tanks & some Infantry counters.   Allowing you to be the same size or a bit larger in scope as AGoAC is.

For the Clan pack.... I'm torn between 5 Mechs,  10 Mech, or 8 mechs+elementals.

I think make the ideal might be 5 Omnis, 3-5 Second Line mechs, and then 5 Elemental Points allowing you to form 2 "lances" (mixed stars) of Mechs & BA.



As for what mechs to choose from........

"Citytech" =  Wasp, Stinger, Marauder, Warhammer for sure as base 4..... plus...... Phoenix Hawk, Crusader, ShadowHawk, & Rifleman if its an 8 mech set.
    Then add in 2 each,  Manticore, Patton, Pegasus, & Maxim + 4 infantry stands/platoons  (2 foot, 1 jump, 1 motorized)

"Clan Box".....  MistLynx, Horned Owl, Viper, Conjurer, Stormcrow, Timberwolf, Galahad, Gargoyle + 5 Elemental Points.


IDK, I feel like those keep the boxes decent sized, a bit larger than AGoAC even, so the price point won't go up much.




I also really like the idea about adding in some scenarios.   Even if its just a single page printed out.

Heck, you don't even have to make them new.   Pull something from the old scenario books with the little sidebars of fluff & mechs/maps/rules in the middle of the page.


I think if the "CityTech" box as I'm calling it was based some historic battle in the 4th SW or Wo39 & you had a bit of fluff about that war in there w/ the scenario you'd be good to go.

Duplicate the same thing w/ the Clan Box & pull out some Twycross/Tukayid/Luthien battle fluff.


You wouldn't need quite as much "fluff" books as the last boxed sets but some maps & maybe a short story for that era that is already from battlecorps?

Small rulebook covering the new tech/units found inside.

Actually,  if they don't have new versions of the Unseen for a full 8 mechs then possibly going with the extra 4 as units coming from the Sabers/FoxTeeth books & showcase 39 tech with the Austin/Daniel/Grace/etc etc variants might be nice. 
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