Tomahawk Clan Wolf prototype assault mech?

[majesticmoose]

Personally, I think it'd be interesting to see a 2/3/3 CFE + compact Gyro + iJJ + Partial wing 100 ton prototype.  Doing that would allow it to mount still impressive pod space, play with crit allocation, and make HS an interesting challange.

Not optomized, but one of the smoothest 100 ton bricks with wings around.

Probably not though, seeign as that may go against the fiction already generated about it.

[Stormfury]

The Clans do not have such gyros or engines.

[Stockus13]

Why would you want a 2/3/3 mech?

I would be very ticked off with that movement profile.

3/5 seems slow enough.

[Stormfury]

Even if they did have the technologies suggested, the result would be a machine offering only 36 tons of pod space and 34 crits to use it.

[majesticmoose]

Why would you want a 2/3/3 mech?

I would be very ticked off with that movement profile.

3/5 seems slow enough.

I meant 2/3/5.  My mistake.

And Give me a page number that says compact fusion engines and compact gyros don't exist in the clans.

as to weight, let me see.

100
-5 (ES IS)
-13 (engine)
-3 (cockpit)
-3 (compact gyro)
-12 iJJ
-5 Partial wing
-19 armor
=40 tons pod space.

crits are 51 (assuming actuators are romeved in the arms)
-7 (ES IS)
-6 iJJ
-4 partial wing (or is it 6...AFB)
+3 (CFE)
+2 (Compact Gyro)
-4 DHS
= 35, maybe 33 depending on if it's 4, or 6 for the partial wing.

The mech would be well armored, mobile (5 jump MP) and it would generate no heat on a full jump thanks to the partial wing.  So it's not quite a "winner", neither is it bad.  I think this would be interesting, as it's a move in the "prototype" or "expiramental" direction, and lord knows the clans could use some of that...

[Stormfury]

P. 215, Tech Manual, states the Clans have access to the following engine types- Standard, Clan XL, Fuel Cell, Fission, ProtoMech, DropShip/Small Craft and Support Vehicles.

P. 220 of Tech Manual states the Clans have the Standard gyro only.

Partial Wings occupy 3 slots per torso. They also provide assault 'Mechs with one, not two, additional MPs.

With Endo Steel you get 40 tons of pod space and 33 crits to use it with.

Honestly, I'd rather a Gargoyle. Even a Gargoyle Prime.

[majesticmoose]

P. 215, Tech Manual, states the Clans have access to the following engine types- Standard, Clan XL, Fuel Cell, Fission, ProtoMech, DropShip/Small Craft and Support Vehicles.

P. 220 of Tech Manual states the Clans have the Standard gyro only.

Partial Wings occupy 3 slots per torso. They also provide assault 'Mechs with one, not two, additional MPs.

With Endo Steel you get 40 tons of pod space and 33 crits to use it with.

Honestly, I'd rather a Gargoyle. Even a Gargoyle Prime.

Ah... my mistake... but if the Mech were to appear in an XTRO, then it could easily have all those components.

You preferance is noted.  I'm not saying it's great.  But I don't see why a clan 100 ton omni needs to be great.  It's a prototype, one that clearly is having a hard time finding a niche because there are few ways to differentiate one 100 ton unit from another.

Look at the suggestions above... "It should use a SFE."  "It should be 4/6."  Yeah... because there aren't 100 ton mechs with a SFE or that move 4/6.

If you want offer a design (well not a design, wrong board for that, but a concept) that shows a different tac the clans could take...
How about ferro-lamellar?  A quad Omni? Compsite structure? Reinforced structure?  Mechanical Jump Boosters? What niche should the Tomahawk fill that a DW (or others) can't fill?

[Stormfury]

You preferance is noted.  I'm not saying it's great.  But I don't see why a clan 100 ton omni needs to be great.

Because a 100-ton OmniMech represents the pinnacle of Clan 'Mech engineering. It's a massive investment from an R&D perspective and for materials/infrastructure.

A 2/3/4 machine offering less tonnage and space for its payload than a Nova Cat does not fit that profile. It is one thing to have a design that is not quite perfect, and another to have something that is a failed chassis right at the start.

Compact Engines and Gyros are an IS technology. The Partial Wing is a Jade Falcon item. Having them on what is supposed to be a cutting-edge new Omni for Clan Wolf does not make sense.

If it were up to me to give the Wolves a (desperately needed) good new Omni, it would be a 3/5, XL engined 100 tonner with two fixed Double Heat Sinks and Endo Steel beneath full armour, leaving 58 tons of pod space. Simple and highly effective.

If you really want to use experimental technologies, 100 tons, 300 XL, Endo-Composite internal structure, 2 fixed Double Heat Sinks in the engine, and an AES for each arm with 19 tons of armour and 50 tons of pod space would still be more than novel.

[majesticmoose]

That's not a bad idea. 

But from a game design standpoint (one that IIRC has been commented on in the designs for TRO 3085) a what you just mentioned is a DW, slightly modified. (with ESC IS, and AES)  I'm not sayign that it's bad, or not enough for me, but from a design standpoint you could basically just make that a DW and be done with it...

When I think of stock BT mechs, especially clan omni's, I need differentiation in the units.  and I suspect not just me.  My Suspicion is that the designers want units that differ, not just simple pinnacles of Tech.

I mean, Frankly, the DW is about as optomized as a 100 clanner is gonna be.  So what can you do to a 100 ton mech that fills a different niche? 

I do like the idea of the AES.  maybe placing that ina 4/6 LFE frame, with maxed integral DHS would give something different enough.  You could light that sucker up with energy weapons, and it'd have plenty of crit space for more DHS.

I dunno.  But if all that the clans are making is more of the same then that's not a reason to publish a mech, you know?  At least not to me.

[DaveMac]

There are a number of examples of designs using the same base chassis but differing enough to be considered separate designs. Maybe CWiE can make the Dire Wolf chassis, or had some knocking around, but were not able to make some of the parts the design required.  Instead they had a go at using what they did have to make as close an approximation of the parent design as possible and decided to call it the Tomahawk.   

[Kit deSummersville]

The Clans do not have such gyros or engines.

Well they do, like the IS has Clan LPLs.  ;)

[Sid]

  Isn't the Tomahawk the 'mech that was the result from the K'Nex contest?

  A few years ago K'Nex released Battletech models.  Supposedly they held a contest that would let the winner get his own home brewed design canonized into the game.  I think that's the Tomahawk.

  Of course, Battletech has changed a few companies now, and it's appeared in a Battlecorps story, so it's been "canonized".  As I recall from the story, it was just a prototype that was being trialed before the Jihad.

  The prototypes/production lines could have gone up in smoke, literally, in the scouring of Tamar...

[Onisuzume]

I meant 2/3/5.  My mistake.

A 2/3/4 machine offering

I thought that JJs allowed Jump MP up to walk MP, with IJJs allowing Jump MP up to running MP?
In which case the best you'd be looking at it 2/3/3, not much of an improvement over 2/3/2 at the cost of 8 tons.

The Partial Wing is a Jade Falcon item. Having them on what is supposed to be a cutting-edge new Omni for Clan Wolf does not make sense.

The Draconis Combine (or republic?) is busy reverse-engineering it, afaik (Ref. SDR-8X Spider).
Also it wouldn't be too unlikely that the puppies would've called a Trial of Posession for the rights to make the technology.

[Kit deSummersville]

I thought that JJs allowed Jump MP up to walk MP, with IJJs allowing Jump MP up to running MP?
In which case the best you'd be looking at it 2/3/3, not much of an improvement over 2/3/2 at the cost of 8 tons.The

A partial wing would give it an extra Jump MP in standard atmosphere.

[Onisuzume]

A partial wing would give it an extra Jump MP in standard atmosphere.

*facepalm*
Forgot about that, yes... :-[

[Hellraiser]

  Isn't the Tomahawk the 'mech that was the result from the K'Nex contest?

  A few years ago K'Nex released Battletech models.  Supposedly they held a contest that would let the winner get his own home brewed design canonized into the game.  I think that's the Tomahawk.

Not sure if it was K'Nex, but it was some kind of contest AFAIK.

[Stockus13]

Well at least it is Canon. I just wish we had stats for it, official stats.

Was there ever any art for it?

[Hellraiser]

Was there ever any art for it?

On a non-canon site.
Check the threads linked above by AW.
One of them gives a further link to an site elsewhere that has a couple pictures of what looked like in theory.
To me it was kind of a Viper+DireWolf look...... or DireWolf-LAM type look, it just seems flatter, wingish.  But thats IMHO.

[Onisuzume]

I'd assume that some people would like to see said fanon artwork...

[Stockus13]

Yes please :)

[Sid]

I'd assume that some people would like to see said fanon artwork...

It's been said many times that it was linked in a post that Arkansas Warrior put up earlier.

For those that can't be bothered to go and click that link and scroll a couple posts, here:

http://www.tro42.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tomahawk

Took 15 seconds.