Fun level one mechs for new players?

[CPLT-C1]

Hello all,

I was recently gifted some old Battletech stuff. Hadn't played in years and was inspired to pick up a few of the new core rule books and try and get my gaming group into it.

I'm a fan of the 3025 era and will probably have 4 players. We'll probably play a team and a free-for-all.

What would be a good group of battlemechs be for both balance and fun? Any of the variants using level one tech are cool.

Weapons that will keep the game moving instead of slow attrition will probably keep everyone's interest better for a 1st game.

Any advice is appreciated.

[Johnny 'NKH' Leyland]

I would say that the types of mech chassis will determine the game length as well as the weapons. Smaller mechs, slow mechs, underarmored mechs and mechs stuffed with ammo bins are easier to kill.

Something like a HBK-4G Hunchback mixes a big gun with a small frame and low ground speed. The ARC-2R Archer and CPLT-C1 Catapult have good punch, they both fling a lot of missiles downfield (and are good for teaching LRM min-range to new players). The WHM-6R hits pretty hard and has relatively thin armor and some explodey ammo. Any of the old Rifleman variants are worth a look, they tend to mix thin armor with decent weaponry (and a brutal heat curve, another good thing for new players to get familiar with early on). The BJ-1DB Blackjack, the one with the large lasers instead of the AC2s, has solid firepower on a small frame.

Hope this helps!

[Nibs]

Incredibly fast 'Mechs are fun. Of course, difficult to learn how to use properly, but the fun of blasting one around the map at top speed, even if it tends to useless as a shooter, is great for a new player!

Maybe an Assassin?

[Blackjack Jones]

Going to speak in general terms since this is a rather broad subject.

  Well, if a slow attrition match is a concern, try to stay away from everyone taking assaults
(and depending on game size even heavies),  thou an odd 'Big' 'Mech on each side can
sometimes speed the match up, as they can have enough punch to knock a lighter 'Mech quickly.

  Most of the 'Unseen' 'Mechs (the ones based off of Macross, Dougram, ans Crusher Joe art)
tend to be favorites not just because of their looks but the fact their game stats lend them
to be effective designs.

  There are a few other designs out there that are general favorites.  The Hunchback can
be a good introduction 'Mech.  It has one big gun, you run at the enemy and you try to shoot
them with it.  The Vindicator, Enforcer, and Centurion are all good starters as
well, being decent all-around choices.

  Another idea would be look at whatever factions the players think are interesting and grab some
'Mechs that they use as a departure point to start narrowing down the list.

  If nothing else, grab some mediums and have at it, the players (and well as yourself) will
come to choose some favorites in the course of a couple games.

  As for balance, 3025 'Mechs can be reasonably balanced by both sides keeping to the same
total tonnage (and the same number of units) , but if the material you have has Battle Value (BV)
info for the designs on them, that might be a safer bet for balance (and a habit to get into for
matches where opposing sides have different tech).

[Saint]

Give us a list of what you have. :)

[CPLT-C1]

I've got just about everything in the form of card stock print outs. As for actual metal, I've got an Atlas, 2 Zeus, Catapult, spider, Jenner and Trebuchet.

The hard part is coming up with four different but equal mechs that everyone will enjoy...

[maddyfish]

The jenner with the SRMs, fast, fair armor, good weapons

[mutantmagnet]

The following are mechs I would equate with fun.

When it comes to assaults the Stalker, Highlander, King Crab, Marauder II and Battlemaster are fun.

Certain Noobs accidentally get into the thick of things and the Stalker, Battlemaster excel when surrounded.
Other noobs just like playing without Penalties. The closest assaults with no penalties is the Marauder II, Banshee and Imp and the Marauder has the least issues of the bunch.
Some noobs just want the biggest wow alpha. Nothing tops the King crab in that dept.
Other noobs want to be in the protective womb of an assault chassis but want to have the flexibility of trooper medium mechs only the Highlander and Crockett fills that niche and I have issues with the Crockett.

When it comes to heavies Thunderbolts is pretty much all you need but their are various niches that are better filled by Heavies than assaults trying to do the same. Those would be the Grand Dragon and Archers.

When it comes to mediums Wolverines is pretty much all you need but there are niches mediums fill that other chassis don't. In those cases you would want to consider PPC Cicada, Scorpion, Trebuchet, and Turbo Hunchback (this is Hunchback that moves 5/8 and only has a small laser as a back up weapon to the AC 20 (do not I repeat do not use the normal hunchbacks)

When it comes to light mechs the Wolfhound, Jenner, JAvelin, Firestarter, Dart and Locust fill very different roles in such a wide way that makes them fun to use.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I strongly recommend avoiding mechs that depend on speed when it comes to training new players.  Movement can be excessively complex, and if they're in something that needs to go fast or die, they're just going to get shot up.  Not something that's likely to encourage them to come back.

[Falchion]

Urbanmechs, Ostscouts, and Locusts.

[MEP]

It may be obvious (avatar), but I have to suggest a Locust. I think it's important to introduce players to fast mechs early so that they can learn the value of maneuvering and using terrain to their advantage.

EDIT: Of course, that also includes other fast (but less cool) mechs like Jenners, Ostscouts and Spiders.

[Stormforge]

First game I played when I was first introduced to Battletech was a Grasshopper 5H. After that game I was hooked even though I lost.  #P

[CPLT-C1]

How does this set look to everyone?

Blackjack	BJ-1DB	BV: 1,015
Pheonix Hawk	PXH-1	BV: 1,041
Vindicator	VND-1R	BV: 1,024
Wyvern	WVE-6N	BV: 1,005

[WarMonkey]

How does this set look to everyone?

Blackjack	BJ-1DB	BV: 1,015
Pheonix Hawk	PXH-1	BV: 1,041
Vindicator	VND-1R	BV: 1,024
Wyvern	WVE-6N	BV: 1,005

Looks good. I was going to suggest the Hunchback, Centurion, Enforcer, Crab route, but what you have looks good enough; mobility with half of them and bigger guns on the rest.

[Spheroid]

I always liked the Dervish.

[mutantmagnet]

I strongly recommend avoiding mechs that depend on speed when it comes to training new players.  Movement can be excessively complex, and if they're in something that needs to go fast or die, they're just going to get shot up.  Not something that's likely to encourage them to come back.

I would hazard a guess you must of had allowed your newbies to play with too many units with drastically different speeds or you are confusing their frustration to having less fun instead of being a good learning process.

For most people just encourage usage of similar speed sets and the obvious signs of frustration doesn't occur.

Otherwise just consider what type of mentality the player has and they might like a little suffering in the sense it shows areas they can improve in. A little challenge early on makes the gaming experience more enjoyable in the next game they play, for these type of people.

[Moonsword]

The 4/6 and 5/8 mediums are pretty solid and encourage a diversity of tactics - Trebuchets are going to handle very differently from Crabs or Hunchbacks.

[Kovax]

The best setup, in my opinion, would be to run two games:

the first using fairly slow and decently armed and armored mediums like the Centurion, Hunchback, or Enforcer.  That teaches the basics of movement and shooting, without getting complicated by other concerns.

the second using fast and light units like the Locust, Wasp, and Stinger.  That teaches the value of movement modifiers, initiative, proper use of terrain, and tactical position.

If you only teach "fire tactics", using heavy or assault 'Mechs, it gives the impression that it's just a game about rolling dice.  The players don't get a feel for the flow of a battle, the gaining and losing of tactical position and momentum, and all of the other "nebulous" aspects that seperate a "strategy game" from "a game of chance".

[Moonsword]

Force them to use lights to go after mediums.  The experience is educational.  Beyond that, it teaches that maneuver, position, terrain, and initiative are important, lessons with direct applications even in the larger units... but they don't penetrate as well there.

For teaching heat, the Stalker and Awesome are great.

[beaumontbrawler]

If you stick to the 45-55 ton range, you've got a number of good and relatively balanced units to choose from . . . that's what I'd do for a bunch of beginners.

[mensa12345]

I recently taught the kiddies to play.  We used Phoenix Hawk-Ds.  Simple design, only a few weapons to master. 

[Sartris]

I picked my favorite from each weight class, then listed some variants that I enjoy playing with

Light: Jenner JR7-F
Medium: Wolverine WVR-6M
Heavy: Thunderbolt TDR-5SE
Assault: Banshee BNC-3S

Javelin JVN-10F
Wolfhound WLF-1
Cicada CDA-3C
Blackjack BJ-1DB
Hatchetman HCT-3F
Phoenix Hawk PXH-1K
Crab CRB-20
Hunchback HBK-4G
Huchback HBK4P
Hoplite HOP-4B
Grand Dragon DRG-1G
Catapult CPLT-C1
Catapult CPLT-C4
Exterminator EXT-4A
Guillotine GLT-4L
Warhammer WHM-6D
Black Knight BL-7-KNT
Flashman FLS-7K
Orion ON1-K
Awesome AWS-8Q
Charger CGR-1A5
Battlemaster BLR-1G
Stalker STK-3F

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I would hazard a guess you must of had allowed your newbies to play with too many units with drastically different speeds or you are confusing their frustration to having less fun instead of being a good learning process.

Good guess, but you're wrong.  I try to stick with 5/8 mechs when I'm teaching, but I've seen other people just toss completely inexperienced players into whatever light mech they had sitting around- the first time I ever played I ended up with a Mercury, which was an extremely unpleasant experience for me- if I hadn't driven to the place with another player, I'd probably have quite.  After the Merc got destroyed, I ended up with a Panther, which was much more fun for someone of my experience level- I could just park on a ridge and snipe at the Wasps and Javelins with my PPC.

For most people just encourage usage of similar speed sets and the obvious signs of frustration doesn't occur.

Otherwise just consider what type of mentality the player has and they might like a little suffering in the sense it shows areas they can improve in. A little challenge early on makes the gaming experience more enjoyable in the next game they play, for these type of people.

For some people it does, but for many getting burned the first game leaves little interest in having a second game.

[Sockmonkey]

Just make sure it's something with average or better armor for it's weight class so they live long enough to learn something.

[Moonsword]

I really think mediums are, for most purposes, excellent learning 'Mechs.  I recommend the Stalker and Awesome for heat because both reward learning the lessons well, and heat is one of those things you just have to learn to manage.  Stalkers also offer insight into "heat is not bad" and "too much heat is VERY bad" - pushing one sometimes is fine, but push it hard enough and the 'Mech is going bye-bye.

[XaosGorilla]

I recently taught the kiddies to play.  We used Phoenix Hawk-Ds.  Simple design, only a few weapons to master. 

     Good idea.  Everyone using the same machine prevents a bad mismatch(LRM/PPC Griffin vs. AC20 Hunchback). Further, it allows each player to most easily learn from what all the other players do(or don't).  Because no player has a mechanical advantage, the use of cover, the movement type used, and heat management become more important.  The only downside is that a lucky die roll becomes more significant.
     Beyond that, I'd look for a Mech that has jets, at least a slight heat problem(to teach heat management), and MAYBE a weapon with a significant minimum range.  Finding all that on one Mech might be difficult.
     As for a  specific mech, a Shadow Hawk comes to mind, the Phoenix Hawk is also a good choice, my personal preference is a Thunderbolt, even though it doesn't have jets, nor is it a medium.
you may want to try running one game with jet equipped mechs, and one without.  No better way to teach a new player how useful jets are.....
     Either way, have FUN!

[Kamov]

I'm partial to Whitworths for training.  Learn to bracket fire!  Play around with jumping vs. running.  See how ammo is dangerous, and how crit sinks can sometimes save you from explosion. 

It's really the total package, and by not doing one thing particularly well, it lets new players start to figure out what they would want to improve about it (speed, firepower, armor, etc) so they have a direction to go when picking new machines for future battles.

[Scotty]

JR7-F

Painful little bastard. :D

[Moonsword]

It's really the total package, and by not doing one thing particularly well, it lets new players start to figure out what they would want to improve about it (speed, firepower, armor, etc) so they have a direction to go when picking new machines for future battles.

Funny, for that size, I always thought it was an excellent take on the LRM boat with enough other capabilities to be flexible.

[Kamov]

I've always viewed the Whitworth as having a traditional damage curve (rising as range decreases), which to me keeps it from being an LRM boat.