Linked/Group Fire - Do you use it?

[target_destroyed]

Recently acquired my copy of TacOps, and was delighted to see rules presented for linking weapons into fire groups. Coming from a Mechwarrior 2 background, I always made a house rule for group fire to speed up gameplay. I always try to implement it when showing new players the game so they don't get bored by a "slow game". Thoughts?

[Sartris]

Recently acquired my copy of TacOps, and was delighted to see rules presented for linking weapons into fire groups. Coming from a Mechwarrior 2 background, I always made a house rule for group fire to speed up gameplay. I always try to implement it when showing new players the game so they don't get bored by a "slow game". Thoughts?

It's a cool idea until you miss with a bank of medium pulse lasers on 4s.  Not sure if I like it a lot as speed of play is the only benefit I see.  Less rolls means less chances to hit.

[target_destroyed]

It's a cool idea until you miss with a bank of medium pulse lasers on 4s.  Not sure if I like it a lot as speed of play is the only benefit I see.  Less rolls means less chances to hit.

Heh, true it's aggravating when that happens, but it can go the other way too. It's nice to succeed at a difficult shot and have all the weapons in the group hit.

I primarily like it for the speed factor. It just bogs things down sometimes to have to roll individually for each weapon. The Nova Prime is a good example. I'd rather just roll once for a bank of 8 or so lasers instead of having to roll each attack seperately.

[Sartris]

Heh, true it's aggravating when that happens, but it can go the other way too. It's nice to succeed at a difficult shot and have all the weapons in the group hit.

I primarily like it for the speed factor. It just bogs things down sometimes to have to roll individually for each weapon. The Nova Prime is a good example. I'd rather just roll once for a bank of 8 or so lasers instead of having to roll each attack seperately.

One of the people in our play group put together a variant of Charlie Tango's Box of Deathâ„¢.  One shake and you can roll up to 20 to-hit rolls or hit locations.  I've since made one of my own.

[WarMonkey]

I have mini dice that I bought in packs of 32, and roll groups of weapons with like-colored pairs of dice.
For example, the Nova Prime....If I fire 6 ER Meds, I roll six pairs of dice( one blue pair, one red pair, etc...) I just state which colored dice are for which weapons and roll away. To minimize confusion with my opponent, I usually roll several groups separately so week can keep track of which weapons hit and miss. Sounds complicated I know, but it really works with repetition.

[target_destroyed]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll have to try both (or a combination of both). I should mention that I don't always group-fire everything (pointless on a Summoner Prime, for example), but often do on units w/ lots of a certain weapon type and/or a large array of weapon types (Nova Prime being a good example of the former, Timber Wolf Prime is a good example of the latter). In battles larger than lance vs. lance/star vs. star I find myself using it more often just to speed things up.

[Peter Smith]

Recently acquired my copy of TacOps, and was delighted to see rules presented for linking weapons into fire groups. Coming from a Mechwarrior 2 background, I always made a house rule for group fire to speed up gameplay. I always try to implement it when showing new players the game so they don't get bored by a "slow game". Thoughts?

True story:

I was playing the Falcon and the Wolf scenario pack with a guy (this is going back to the end of the 90's). I lost initiative, and made a tactical error with my last move. I didn't see that his Bane hadn't moved, I ended up moving myself into a spot he could slide to short range and get a shot off with his right arm. Before the game we had agreed to allow for interlocked triggers, but we also allowed for individual weapons fire should the player wish that option. My opponent decided that he wanted to use his TICs, and did the long pull with his UAC/2s. His only to-hit roll of that turn...and a set of snake eyes are staring right back at him. Always looking at the bright side of things, he said: "At least I have a damage sink."

It's a good system if you're running designs that have a large number of weapons, or you want to set yourself up like they do in the VGL cockpits, but they do have their drawbacks.

[evilauthor]

One thing linked/grouped fire ought to do is make any missile launchers other than the SRM-4, LRM-5, and any other base launchers, obsolete. After all, if you're not using Artemis, larger launchers become just plain inefficient when you can have the same number of tubes stacked together in multiple smaller launchers. Multiple smaller launchers also can't all be taken out with a single crit (unless that crit is their ammo).

[Peter Smith]

One thing linked/grouped fire ought to do is make any missile launchers other than the SRM-4, LRM-5, and any other base launchers, obsolete. After all, if you're not using Artemis, larger launchers become just plain inefficient when you can have the same number of tubes stacked together in multiple smaller launchers. Multiple smaller launchers also can't all be taken out with a single crit (unless that crit is their ammo).

Unless you're mounting them on non-'Mech units. Then you start running into space limitations/Fire Control penalties.

[Fireangel]

I prefer more "to hit" rolls. Sure, some might miss, but you'd still have another roll.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I prefer more "to hit" rolls. Sure, some might miss, but you'd still have another roll.

And if you're rolling for something that's got a penalty on a low roll (RACs and Ultras, for example), you're better off rolling separately.  The chance of rolling a single jam might be higher, but that's still better than one roll jamming everything.

BTW, if you're using the massed dice rolling (which I do), getting a dice tower or dice cup is very useful.  Most game stores can get a dice tower, while dice cups are available even more widely.  They're great for keeping large amounts of dice from scattering widely when you roll, which is useful for preventing the annoyance of having your dice fall off the table.

[target_destroyed]

I prefer more "to hit" rolls. Sure, some might miss, but you'd still have another roll.

I remember a few threads from my time as a lurker about "BT vs. <insert other tabletop game>", and there always seemed to be complaints that BT was "too slow" due to the amount of calculations/paperwork involved. I think the linked fire system alleviates part of that "problem". I'm certainly not saying I like it from a tactical perspective, just a speed one.

[avon1985]

We don't use the link rules but we get as many of the same to hit numbers together and roll same color dice together speeds up the firing a little.

[Klingon]

One of the people in our play group put together a variant of Charlie Tango's Box of Deathâ„¢.  One shake and you can roll up to 20 to-hit rolls or hit locations.  I've since made one of my own.

Works great as long as the order of weapons fire is consistent. as listed on the sheet, or greatest damage first, et cetera. Otherwise, you can easily run into "But I was firing my small laser first that time! It has nothing to do with the snake eyes that came up first in the box..."

[Sartris]

Works great as long as the order of weapons fire is consistent. as listed on the sheet, or greatest damage first, et cetera. Otherwise, you can easily run into "But I was firing my small laser first that time! It has nothing to do with the snake eyes that came up first in the box..."

Generally the Box of Death is only used for cluster hits.  Individual weapons are still rolled out with regular dice. 

I've also been experimenting with dice-in-dice, having each one representing a different weapon on the mech.

[garhkal]

Generally the Box of Death is only used for cluster hits.  Individual weapons are still rolled out with regular dice. 

I've also been experimenting with dice-in-dice, having each one representing a different weapon on the mech.

While i cant remember if any of the gamers i have b/teched with used group/ganged fire like that, we DID mke multiple rolls at once..

And to avoid that above issue, we always designated what dice was what to everyone before we rolled.
"OK the large black speckled are for the UAC-10, the greens are for the LPL, and both the small red and gold dice are the Med lasers...  DRAT a snake eyes on green...  darn lpl.."

[Sartris]

While i cant remember if any of the gamers i have b/teched with used group/ganged fire like that, we DID mke multiple rolls at once..

And to avoid that above issue, we always designated what dice was what to everyone before we rolled.
"OK the large black speckled are for the UAC-10, the greens are for the LPL, and both the small red and gold dice are the Med lasers...  DRAT a snake eyes on green...  darn lpl.."

Yeah, if you've only got one pair of die, there's a serious problem.  I like SRM/MML boats, so the Box of Death is useful because I will often hit with 15-20 at a time.  Heavens know with my clumsiness that there'd be dice all of over the shop otherwise

[Grognard]

Fire linking Rule: very very useful when piloting a Black Hawk/Nova.
All the same weapon, in the same location, with the same modifier, fired all at once.
Impact area: all the same location.
6 Clan ER mediums in the same spot tend to sting ... ALOT. [rockon]

'course, it truely SUX when ya miss the die roll. [tickedoff]

[Peter Smith]

All the same weapon, in the same location, with the same modifier, fired all at once.

Yes, no, yes, and yes. TacOps specifies that locations are determined as usual, not that they all hit a single location. I believe the only thing that allows for independent weapons to strike the same location together is the Machine Gun Array.

[Onisuzume]

Which in turn allows for the 4HMG Array head-capper... :D

[Peter Smith]

Which in turn allows for the 4HMG Array head-capper...

A two hex range head-capper. ;)

[Grognard]

Sorry: the FireLinking rule was a House rule of my group way back in the day.
I did not mean to portray it as the new official TW rule.

But our FireLinking rule made for some quick gameplay.
Missiles were a bit exempt: you could roll for multiple launchers at the same time, but then had to roll to see how many from each launcher hit.  However, all the missiles from each launcher hit in ONE location.  Basically it negates spreading the missiles all over the place... a bit.

exmple:
I fire 3 LRM10s from my RT.  All have the same TH modifer and roll (duh)
LRM10A has 7 missiles hit.  Roll location. (RT) All 7 will hit the same location.
LRM10B has 9 missiles hit.  Roll location. (LL) All 9 will hit that same location.
LRM10C has 4 missiles hit.  Roll location. (CT) all 4 will hit in that same location.

It was our house rule, and I believe that it sped up gameplay.

[ahnospell44]

One of the people in our play group put together a variant of Charlie Tango's Box of Deathâ„¢.  One shake and you can roll up to 20 to-hit rolls or hit locations.  I've since made one of my own.

That thing is awesome, it might be more awesome and useful then the chessex dice roll boot, not to be confused with 'das boot' of course which is probably the best way to cope with losing...

[Klingon]

Sorry: the FireLinking rule was a House rule of my group way back in the day.
I did not mean to portray it as the new official TW rule.

But our FireLinking rule made for some quick gameplay.
Missiles were a bit exempt: you could roll for multiple launchers at the same time, but then had to roll to see how many from each launcher hit.  However, all the missiles from each launcher hit in ONE location.  Basically it negates spreading the missiles all over the place... a bit.

exmple:
I fire 3 LRM10s from my RT.  All have the same TH modifer and roll (duh)
LRM10A has 7 missiles hit.  Roll location. (RT) All 7 will hit the same location.
LRM10B has 9 missiles hit.  Roll location. (LL) All 9 will hit that same location.
LRM10C has 4 missiles hit.  Roll location. (CT) all 4 will hit in that same location.

It was our house rule, and I believe that it sped up gameplay.

So will foregoing armor.  :P When you alter basic rules like that, it has a very severe effect on the game mechanics. With the way you have (had?) this, just swap out any AC/20 for four medium lasers, and voila! Ten tons recovered.

Logically it makes sense, weapons mounted in the same location might be aligned to hit the same place, but you still run into parallax issues as you get closer from or further from the focus point (think of the path of the weapons line of fire as an X, with the focal point being the middle). However, I remind myself that some realism was sacrificed on the altar of playability.

[Charlie Tango]

Sorry: the FireLinking rule was a House rule of my group way back in the day.
I did not mean to portray it as the new official TW rule.

But our FireLinking rule made for some quick gameplay.
Missiles were a bit exempt: you could roll for multiple launchers at the same time, but then had to roll to see how many from each launcher hit.  However, all the missiles from each launcher hit in ONE location.  Basically it negates spreading the missiles all over the place... a bit.

exmple:
I fire 3 LRM10s from my RT.  All have the same TH modifer and roll (duh)
LRM10A has 7 missiles hit.  Roll location. (RT) All 7 will hit the same location.
LRM10B has 9 missiles hit.  Roll location. (LL) All 9 will hit that same location.
LRM10C has 4 missiles hit.  Roll location. (CT) all 4 will hit in that same location.

It was our house rule, and I believe that it sped up gameplay.

There are a lot easier ways to speed up game play (firing chits, movement dice markers, rolling multiple colored sets of dice, Box-of-death for cluster/SRM/LRM cluster missile hits, knowing the hit charts) than heavily unbalancing the game mechanics.

Oh,  the original Box-Of-Death...



I really can't take credit for it; someone on the previous version of the forums suggested the idea,  I just put one together.  I've just been trying to popularize it, because I find it useful.

[Sartris]

There are a lot easier ways to speed up game play (firing chits, movement dice markers, rolling multiple colored sets of dice, Box-of-death for cluster/SRM/LRM cluster missile hits, knowing the hit charts) than heavily unbalancing the game mechanics.

I really can't take credit for it; someone on the previous version of the forums suggested the idea,  I just put one together.  I've just been trying to popularize it, because I find it useful.

Count me as a fan.  We started using one the next week after you posted that picture a while back.

[Crunch]

I dislike the Linked weapons rule just because it completely obsoletes one system (The Machine Gun Array) and makes a 3 ER ML bay superior to a HPPC.

Honestly if I've already used all of the efficiency options I have and still want a faster game I'm going to go QS or BF rather than something like linked weapons.

[Peter Smith]

I dislike the Linked weapons rule just because it completely obsoletes one system (The Machine Gun Array) and makes a 3 ER ML bay superior to a HPPC.

No, and no. Linked weapons let you roll one to-hit for a number of weapons, but each weapons rolls its own damage location. If your three ERMLs (for example) hit, the only way all three are going to hit the same location is if all three location rolls come up the same.

And as an aside, all other things being equal, the Heavy PPC is going to have a significant advantage over the ER Medium Lasers in the 13-18 hex range.

[ExtraBattleTechisfun]

Thanks for starting this topic.  Yes I use linked weapons rules.  A house rule I use is that a gunner may shoot any number of linked weapons at a target with no attacker movement modifier as long as he/she is not piloting/driving that unit.  I was disappointed that the linked weapons rule wasn't in TW.  That rule speeds up game play.  I actually allow a gunner on a large spacecraft make use of linked capital weapons.

[BirdofPrey]

Yeah, I don't link weapons, you lose a few chances to hit (I seem to miss often enough I am not going to risk missing a bunch of times just for that one time I can get all my wepons to hit all at once) but doesn't seem to have any advantages.  Sure if you only have one set of dice it can speed up the to-hit rolls, but even this rookie has multiple sets of dice in different colors.  Right now I have 4 colors of d6, I just assign a color to each weapon, grab a handful of dice and roll; I usually only have to roll twice, but more dice would solve that problem; there,s enough variation in the dice manufactured you could have each weapon in your force have a different set if you wanted.