Age of War datacore

[Colt Ward]

The Helm Core with support from other resources allowed the Inner Sphere to bootstrap themselves back towards the Star League.

Would a periphery power finding a late Age of War/Reunification War era core allow a Periphery state to bootstrap back to that level?  I know I and others have tossed around Taurian/RWR caches following in the vein of Werewolf.

But say the head of one of those periphery powers had sent a expedition to take copies of their government documents, plans & data, and any R&D to a world outside their borders, build a cache, and then . . . either be silenced or lost in the last days of the war.  Would such a trove of information been able to bring them to a more equal footing to the Inner Sphere?

[AlphaMirage]

I could help them make the retrotech or primitive designs of the dark age which is probably better than what was common in the bad old days.

That said something like a Toro is pretty close to a Panther in capability. With other designs like Icarus and Battle-axe you could do a lot even if not as efficiently

[Adacas]

The Helm Core with support from other resources allowed the Inner Sphere to bootstrap themselves back towards the Star League.

Would a periphery power finding a late Age of War/Reunification War era core allow a Periphery state to bootstrap back to that level?  I know I and others have tossed around Taurian/RWR caches following in the vein of Werewolf.

But say the head of one of those periphery powers had sent a expedition to take copies of their government documents, plans & data, and any R&D to a world outside their borders, build a cache, and then . . . either be silenced or lost in the last days of the war.  Would such a trove of information been able to bring them to a more equal footing to the Inner Sphere?

It could be, it depends on the content of the Core and the resources of the peripheral state in a chronicle that a Merc marian unit directed found a Core of the RWR, the Core was large and coarse but it was in some of its parts encrypted.
The simplest parts lacked encryption, therefore the data was reviewed and used more quickly, data on food and crop improvements, Industries and military steel (Ferro Fibra and Light Ferro Fibra), as well as basic energy weapons (Lasers and CPP normal), decrypting the rest of the Core in Chronicle time took about 5 years to decipher it and there were still parts that the decryptions were still doubtful,  Call The Shadow Core was in a training base of the RWR behind the back of the Province of Alphard 4 jumps from the Border.

[Colt Ward]

I could help them make the retrotech or primitive designs of the dark age which is probably better than what was common in the bad old days.

That said something like a Toro is pretty close to a Panther in capability. With other designs like Icarus and Battle-axe you could do a lot even if not as efficiently

See that is what I was thinking . . . if it would give them a general industrial boost it would be good.  If it could get them to building a quantity of material, even if inferior to what the IS had, then it offered possibilities.  After all, if you can create a plant that churns out 10 primitive fusion engines, because they are easier, that would otherwise make a single standard fusion engine . . . why would you not take the 10 PFEs?

It would have been a interesting setting change for 3025 . . . tech has fallen so that the IS builds standard designs/equipment.  The periphery has fallen further, and so builds hybrid designs- engine, maybe gyro, maybe armor, maybe cockpit are primitive while the weapons are standard.

[Deadborder]

Just having a hypothetical core is not going to solve everything. You also need to have the tech base, knowledge and infrastructure to take advantage of it.

The Marian Hegemony is a very good case of the problems faced by doing such. The Hegemony started out as a pirate nation with a collection of thinly populated, under-developed worlds that had little going for them save for a Geranium stash that provided hard currency for trading. While they were founded in 2920, it took them until 3060 to be able to build an intro-tech Hover Tank; even then they needed to import the AC/10s from the Taurian Concordat because they were unable to build them locally. This is despite the fact that the Inner Sphere was going through its biggest tech boom in centuries at the time. (true, the Hegemony had other marks against it, like being a repressive society with a slave-based economy, but the point stands)

Even then, the Marian Tech Boom of the 3060s and 3070s is largely due to the Word of Blake helping to build up their technology and infrastructure to support their own aims. However, they still could only manage Retrotech BattleMech production by the end of the Jihad, even with those advantages.

The same can be said of the Taurians and Canopians. While they had the advantage of higher tech levels and more pre-existing infrastructure then the Marians (low bar to clear and all) they still needed assistance from the Capellans to reach anything resembling technological parity. This was again due to a lack of overall technology, infrastructure, low populations and so on.

tl;dr - Periphery nation with a lot of advantages still has a slow time teching up and required foreign assistance to do such

[Colt Ward]

But that is the point of data from that period, it is closer to what they have, therefore easier to step up rather than the decades the AFFS/C spent looking at the Helm Core.  The distance between starting position and destination is narrower.

[Deadborder]

"Easier" is still relative.

Let's put things in perspective. You're talking about "late" Age of War tech here, such as Primitive BattleMechs, so mid-late 25th century. Conversely, "modern" BattleMech technology is only a couple of decades out from that, in the late 25th to early 26th centuries. Comparatively speaking that's only a slight jump.

And, as said, you still need to have a place to start from in order to get there. Look at the state of the Periphery in the early 31st century. Outside of the major powers (and even then, only the core worlds of those powers) the average planet was at a 20th century level at best. Many were entirely pre-industrial and lacked significant populations or industry, and many had low rates of literacy. Having a memory core won't help if you can't do anything with it.

The jump forward from "dirt farmer" to Primitve BattleMech is massive. Conversely, the jump from Primitive BattleMech to "modern" BattleMech is tiny. While yes, the Federated Suns (and later Federated Commonwealth) took two decades to get to mass-production of Star League tech, it also was comparatively quick. They had massive advantages behind them. Huge population, substantial economy, dedicated research facilities and a considerable existing technology base. A Periphery world, or most Periphery nations, has none of these at all.

Again, it took the Marian Hegemony 150 years to work their way up to Age of War technology, and that was with external assistance as well as coasting off the back of everyone else's achievements.

[idea weenie]

Just having a hypothetical core is not going to solve everything. You also need to have the tech base, knowledge and infrastructure to take advantage of it.

The Marian Hegemony is a very good case of the problems faced by doing such. The Hegemony started out as a pirate nation with a collection of thinly populated, under-developed worlds that had little going for them save for a Geranium stash that provided hard currency for trading. While they were founded in 2920, it took them until 3060 to be able to build an intro-tech Hover Tank; even then they needed to import the AC/10s from the Taurian Concordat because they were unable to build them locally. This is despite the fact that the Inner Sphere was going through its biggest tech boom in centuries at the time. (true, the Hegemony had other marks against it, like being a repressive society with a slave-based economy, but the point stands)

Didn't know flowers were that valuable    ;)

Even then, the Marian Tech Boom of the 3060s and 3070s is largely due to the Word of Blake helping to build up their technology and infrastructure to support their own aims. However, they still could only manage Retrotech BattleMech production by the end of the Jihad, even with those advantages.

The same can be said of the Taurians and Canopians. While they had the advantage of higher tech levels and more pre-existing infrastructure then the Marians (low bar to clear and all) they still needed assistance from the Capellans to reach anything resembling technological parity. This was again due to a lack of overall technology, infrastructure, low populations and so on.

tl;dr - Periphery nation with a lot of advantages still has a slow time teching up and required foreign assistance to do such

The other part of it might be pirates attacking the Periphery nations over and over, or the TC's obsession with Davion invasions (channeling most of their industry to defenses instead of rebuilding) and a hidden colonization group 9siphoning off more resources in the process.

This is good information to consider for a strategic game setup where a player tries to run a nation in a single-player game and selects the 'aggravating neighbors' difficulty level.  Most of each turn's economy goes towards the military and defenses, leaving little behind to build up.  Interstellar Operations shows that when a unit is in combat the maintenance cost is 4* higher, so the nation has to reserve resources to pay for that higher cost.  This leaves little behind to get the 5% bonus to treasury, or allocate to building up a planet.  Lots of small strikes mean more units are forced to us combat costs, instead of a few units able to stand down and reduce their costs in the process.

[butchbird]

Sometimes the problem can simply be tooling. You might have the plans and part of the know how, but is your tooling even capable of building the jigs necessary to build the tooling necessitated by the spiffy new equipment? And while you have the technical know how to understand the design, do your workers have the knowledge to make it?

In other words, an example: Recently at my job (I work as an inspector/machinist in a small shop specialized in spare parts for bigger shops) I was assigned a part to produce with pretty tight geometrical tolerances, which I am to do with an old hybrid (part conventionnal part numerical) lathe which dates from 2001 and can't even use one of its 8 tool pockets anymore (just to give the general idea...its old and ornery, and gets worst as time passes by of course, still, I havn't had a part return yet).

First off: the plan and set-up themselves. Recently I had one of the guys, a very competent machinist with about 20 years of experience (not a mere operator, the guy is a really good machinist) come to me to explain a certain geometrical tolerance type. It's useless to point out that if you don't know what it is, you don't know how to set-up as to respect it.

Second off: the capabilitys of the machine. So for my part I had to respect a cylindricity of 0.0005" on three interior diameters for about 8 inches long. Problem is my lathe does a taper of about 0.001" for a cut of 4 inches long which CANNOT be corrected. How can you work past that? You can't with the machine, you gotta do your best with sand paper and such...long, hard and impresise work, more the work of an artist.

Third off: The technical know-how for manufacturing. When I got to the inspection section of my job for said part, I realized that one of the three diameters was well off the desired tolerance...something like 0.0015" for one of the two parts, the other a bit better off (might have might first return...sure hope not, its a new big client, that would be a bummer). Now I'm not the best machinist, I lack experience and confidence, but I always seek support from the older guys around me (some of them are miracle workers, even if in one case the eyes simply aren't good enough anymore, hence the need for a good inspector)...yet this wasn't enough to paliate the fact that the material doesn't necessarly react like you thought which can screw the precautions used during set-up and screw the whole process.

Now I was just making 2 spare parts (took about 24 hours, was estimated and sold at about 16 hours)...but if your making the jig for a jig for a tooling to build a jig...well you can see how much of a set-back it can be, and make it so that maybe the process of building spiffy new equipment might take so many years that your own developpment will be rendered useless once a merchant comes along with equipment at reasonable price.

[mikecj]

Your explanation is a great real-world example of one of the published sourcebooks that talked about NAIS basically hand-building the first ER Lasers after the Helm Core was recovered.  Thanks for sharing.

[wanderer25]

Just having a hypothetical core is not going to solve everything. You also need to have the tech base, knowledge and infrastructure to take advantage of it.

The Marian Hegemony is a very good case of the problems faced by doing such. The Hegemony started out as a pirate nation with a collection of thinly populated, under-developed worlds that had little going for them save for a Geranium stash that provided hard currency for trading. While they were founded in 2920, it took them until 3060 to be able to build an intro-tech Hover Tank; even then they needed to import the AC/10s from the Taurian Concordat because they were unable to build them locally. This is despite the fact that the Inner Sphere was going through its biggest tech boom in centuries at the time. (true, the Hegemony had other marks against it, like being a repressive society with a slave-based economy, but the point stands)

Actually ATC was making J Edgard , Marian arms tracked APCs along with J Edgard and later on Maultiler while Hadrian  was making APC's, weapon carriers (AC-2/SRM) and Harrasers hover tanks. So they did have some industrial base . Level C  basic heavy industry is all that is needed. Tough the J Edgard's fusion engine might have been imports? (source Sarna)

The Gladius  just came later.

While Alphard started out as a pirate state the MH does have other planets . Hadrian  mechanized  industries is on Pompey , pop 265 million.


 

[Adacas]

Actually ATC was making J Edgard , Marian arms tracked APCs along with J Edgard and later on Maultiler while Hadrian  was making APC's, weapon carriers (AC-2/SRM) and Harrasers hover tanks. So they did have some industrial base . Level C  basic heavy industry is all that is needed. Tough the J Edgard's fusion engine might have been imports? (source Sarna)

The Gladius  just came later.

While Alphard started out as a pirate state the MH does have other planets . Hadrian  mechanized  industries is on Pompey , pop 265 million.


 

Alphard pop is 3700 millons
The Marian Hegemony manufactures fusion reactors for some time, both for Tanks, Mechs and Aero, at least there is a local supply of reactors from 3085 or before that, I suggest you read the equipment with which the Commando 4H is made I think even from Objetives Raids 3077/79 already speak that the Commando Reactor is Local and tanks They manufacture several with fusion reactors such as the Shreck and the Goblin

[Red Pins]

See that is what I was thinking . . . if it would give them a general industrial boost it would be good.  If it could get them to building a quantity of material, even if inferior to what the IS had, then it offered possibilities.  After all, if you can create a plant that churns out 10 primitive fusion engines, because they are easier, that would otherwise make a single standard fusion engine . . . why would you not take the 10 PFEs?

It would have been a interesting setting change for 3025 . . . tech has fallen so that the IS builds standard designs/equipment.  The periphery has fallen further, and so builds hybrid designs- engine, maybe gyro, maybe armor, maybe cockpit are primitive while the weapons are standard.

I've argued that until I'm blue in the face, that the Periphery is the perfect place for a new 3025-era setting with the whole 'Mad Max' thing and improving tech as you get  closer to Terra for the people who want to play the newest stuff.  But no.  It's absolutely maddening, they could do so much more with the setting and ruleset.

[RifleMech]

It would depend on when the data core was created. Primitives and Standard Tech aren't going to pull the Periphery up that much. It might bring them up to parity with IS militaries. Not in tech but in numbers.

Now if the data core contained equipment from the Reunification War, and if the Periphery managed to replicate it, then they'd have SLDF tech. Even prototype SLDF tech would give them a tech advantage over the IS.

The problem would be numbers. Unless they're given plot magic, like the CC, it would take time to build up their numbers even with Primitive Tech.

[Deadborder]

Actually ATC was making J Edgard , Marian arms tracked APCs along with J Edgard and later on Maultiler while Hadrian  was making APC's, weapon carriers (AC-2/SRM) and Harrasers hover tanks. So they did have some industrial base . Level C  basic heavy industry is all that is needed. Tough the J Edgard's fusion engine might have been imports? (source Sarna)

The Gladius  just came later.

While Alphard started out as a pirate state the MH does have other planets . Hadrian  mechanized  industries is on Pompey , pop 265 million.

ATC was essentially a defunct company; the Alphard Plant was in ruins by the time the Hegemony came along. it was rebuilt from the ground up in the 3050s in partnership with Kali-Yama (who provided the technology to do such), which is how the Marians came to build various vehicles there. The Gladius was merely their first indigenously developed vehicle. So again, it required outside intervention for the Marians to get to Intro-level technology.

Also, the lists of what components each factory makes on Sarna should be taken with a grain of salt. Most sources (eg the Objectives series) just list the finished product (J Edgar, Commando, etc) but not the components involved. Sarna tends to simply list all components involved but usually lacks any evidence either way. We don't know if the Marians can or can't build their own fusion engines, but again, if they do it took outside helf for them to get to that point.

Alphard pop is 3700 millons
The Marian Hegemony manufactures fusion reactors for some time, both for Tanks, Mechs and Aero, at least there is a local supply of reactors from 3085 or before that, I suggest you read the equipment with which the Commando 4H is made I think even from Objetives Raids 3077/79 already speak that the Commando Reactor is Local and tanks They manufacture several with fusion reactors such as the Shreck and the Goblin

The Commando is mentioned twice in Objectives Periphery; pg 5 where is is being built by the Taurians, and pg 28 where the primitive version is being made on Otisberg in the Rim Collection. The Marians aren't producing the 'Mech. They may be refitting existing Commandos to the 4H model, however. Even then, that's still using primarily Introtech save for the Rockets. As of 3079, the Marians were only building primitive BattleMechs. In fact, there's nothing to indicate they build modern BattleMechs as of 3145

The Schreck and Goblin production was in a plant built sometime after 3079. Neither tank is mentioned in Objectives: Periphery. Even then, there's no indication of if the Marians are building their reactors locally or importing them. And as a side note, the only version of the Goblin the MHAF uses is still driven by an ICE engine.

(Then again, the Leximon plant which produced the Schreck and Goblin is now in the Lothian League, so yeah)

[Saint]

Field Manual : 3085 page 134 Has this

" Despite significant losses to their academic arm and the
Legions themselves, the mineral wealth and industrial infrastructure
of the Hegemony remains intact. No damage was sustained by
the industry, and the Hegemony finally fielded its first home-built
BattleMech assets. A number of RetroTech ’Mechs preceded the
introduction of true BattleMechs: Commandos and Locusts are now
coming off ATC’s lines on Alphard itself. "

Looks like later books may have just missed this and need updating.

[Deadborder]

I stand corrected. They must have introduced those into production between 3079 and 3085, and I missed those references. However, it doesn't change the fact that the Marians again needed external help to get to that level.

[Adacas]

Field Manual : 3085 page 134 Has this

" Despite significant losses to their academic arm and the
Legions themselves, the mineral wealth and industrial infrastructure
of the Hegemony remains intact. No damage was sustained by
the industry, and the Hegemony finally fielded its first home-built
BattleMech assets. A number of RetroTech ’Mechs preceded the
introduction of true BattleMechs: Commandos and Locusts are now
coming off ATC’s lines on Alphard itself. "

Looks like later books may have just missed this and need updating.

It was said some time ago in the post Hegemonic to the Fed that from 3085 the Hegemony towards Locust and Commando, and later other mechs can be assumed, the Locust and Commandos was confirmed by Greekfire that they are totally local production, the problem is that it seems that the Hegemony according to who writes they say they have such a level of development or another.

Another question the Gladius came out in the TRO 3060, but it left the factory for the first time in 3042 according to the Sourcebook Periphery 2 Edition

[wanderer25]

ATC was essentially a defunct company; the Alphard Plant was in ruins by the time the Hegemony came along. it was rebuilt from the ground up in the 3050s in partnership with Kali-Yama (who provided the technology to do such), which is how the Marians came to build various vehicles there. The Gladius was merely their first indigenously developed vehicle. So again, it required outside intervention for the Marians to get to Intro-level technology.

MY point is they did have some industrial capacity, generic APC's and weapon carriers. Its not much, but its a start.

AS for the Taurians, they are noted has having one of the best educational system around. The CC and FS both based theirs  on them. They could do something with a core.
The bases (industry + education) is there. Now practical  known how is an other story, but that is true  of the IS too, there is going to be a learning curve to get  over but
its not unsurmontable. Frankly they are in a better position the DC with its  illiterate masses.

[DOC_Agren]

I kinda expected that the TC should have set up fallback data core sites before the kicking off the New Vandenberg Uprising vrs the Star League.  Cause if it goes bad, it going to be really bad..  remember the enemy is the Star League..  Mr I kill it with my battleships

when I first heard of the far lookers that who I thought they were/looking for them.

Even if the data core is more civilian tech the military can help them keep up/sell off data to get what they need. 

[MDFification]

I kinda expected that the TC should have set up fallback data core sites before the kicking off the New Vandenberg Uprising vrs the Star League.  Cause if it goes bad, it going to be really bad..  remember the enemy is the Star League..  Mr I kill it with my battleships

when I first heard of the far lookers that who I thought they were/looking for them.

Even if the data core is more civilian tech the military can help them keep up/sell off data to get what they need.

The Taurians did, actually, though I think it was in response to the Reunification War instead of the New Vandenberg uprising. We find out about one such effort in Interstellar Players 3: Interstellar Expeditions.

The problem is that their chosen site to hide their military-industrial know-how was the same place a bunch of people from the Magistracy decided to hide their cultural legacy. Long story short, the two groups fused into a short-lived interstellar state called the Alexandrian Covenant, wound up in a cycle of civil wars, and underwent societal collapse. Some of the caches are still out there, but the surviving locals are really good at murdering people who try to come look for them, and refuse to use them themselves on religious grounds.

Point being, you can have all the blueprints you need, and still fail. This story has played out many times in the Periphery. What they need to develop themselves more than anything is peace, internal and external.

[Metallgewitter]

It was said some time ago in the post Hegemonic to the Fed that from 3085 the Hegemony towards Locust and Commando, and later other mechs can be assumed, the Locust and Commandos was confirmed by Greekfire that they are totally local production, the problem is that it seems that the Hegemony according to who writes they say they have such a level of development or another.

Another question the Gladius came out in the TRO 3060, but it left the factory for the first time in 3042 according to the Sourcebook Periphery 2 Edition

The Hegemony was noted as building their own Locusts under Project Phoenix (they had their own variant armed with Rocket Launchers) Also the Hegemony was able to refit stolen Phoenix Marauder 2's with Rocket Launchers. Thoguh I bet those rtefits are done by the company Tech Wizards who are supposed to be some of the best at juryrigging and refitting in the Periphery.The tech base is there but needs a bigger educated population and more importantly no  war thank you very much. Wars zap ressources and manpower.

To the topic itself: the Helm memory core was basically a library of improved technology and not necessary new technology. For example the Combine still had some endo steel mills but they didn't know how to operate them or rather how to bring them online again. with the knowledge it became possible. I would bet the same goes for an "older" core. In the Jihad the New Dallas core was discovered and it enabled smaller companies to produce Retrotech or even real Battlemechs since they had the tools but needed plans. If the nation who discovers the core has at least a moderate tech base it should be a boost. But let's say a 21st century tech base? That might take much longer

[Adacas]

The Hegemony was noted as building their own Locusts under Project Phoenix (they had their own variant armed with Rocket Launchers) Also the Hegemony was able to refit stolen Phoenix Marauder 2's with Rocket Launchers. Thoguh I bet those rtefits are done by the company Tech Wizards who are supposed to be some of the best at juryrigging and refitting in the Periphery.The tech base is there but needs a bigger educated population and more importantly no  war thank you very much. Wars zap ressources and manpower.

To the topic itself: the Helm memory core was basically a library of improved technology and not necessary new technology. For example the Combine still had some endo steel mills but they didn't know how to operate them or rather how to bring them online again. with the knowledge it became possible. I would bet the same goes for an "older" core. In the Jihad the New Dallas core was discovered and it enabled smaller companies to produce Retrotech or even real Battlemechs since they had the tools but needed plans. If the nation who discovers the core has at least a moderate tech base it should be a boost. But let's say a 21st century tech base? That might take much longer

The Hegemony in 3060 had its first 'mech the Locust 1V2 and also the Commando 4H those are built in the Hegemony, then there are several more that are Refit the Marauder II 4H, the Withworth H, the Catapult H, the Goliath 2 H and the Jagermech H After the Alphard bombing ´part of the critical mass of researchers is lost, Cassius begins the reconstruction that leads to the construction of Locust and Commands as well as other "primitive" models such as the Centurion, the Gladiator, the Icarus and the Emperor in their primitive versions
From then on, almost 70 years passed, whose only war is Lothario, in which I do not see him suck so many resources so that there is no research in which we have only two armors and the Testudo, as well as developing Ferro Fibra locally and Arrow IV locally, If they tell me that by doing this, weapons and other things are not produced locally, it is not very credible.

[DOC_Agren]

The Taurians did, actually, though I think it was in response to the Reunification War instead of the New Vandenberg uprising. We find out about one such effort in Interstellar Players 3: Interstellar Expeditions.

The problem is that their chosen site to hide their military-industrial know-how was the same place a bunch of people from the Magistracy decided to hide their cultural legacy. Long story short, the two groups fused into a short-lived interstellar state called the Alexandrian Covenant, wound up in a cycle of civil wars, and underwent societal collapse. Some of the caches are still out there, but the surviving locals are really good at murdering people who try to come look for them, and refuse to use them themselves on religious grounds.

Point being, you can have all the blueprints you need, and still fail. This story has played out many times in the Periphery. What they need to develop themselves more than anything is peace, internal and external.

Good to know that the TC had at least 1 planned emergency cache site.  I would have prepped 2 or 3, that are setup in the Deep Periphery (laugh The Lastpost sounded like a good location) and another 1 deeper out, maybe a location that they could Land and keep a Project Greek Island as a fallback site for the TC government, if things went pearshape.  Of course there is the possiblity that the fallback site would fall into major disuse after the TC lost the ability to build Jumpships because keeping it supplied would be an issue.  Be interesting if when the TC went looking for the cache finding a pirate band operating from it, but having not found the library/cache

[fallen]

An enterprising GM could use the idea of a newly discovered data core to launch into a home brew game.  Which ever faction that has possession of the data core could go into a new direction of technological advancement with new and different building materials, components, weapon classes, design principles, etc. For example, if you've ever wanted to build a six-legged 'Mech, VTOL/LAM hybrid, Centaur BattleMech, etc, this may be the way to do that.

[Red Pins]

Yeah, I did something like this for some of my homebrew tech, Permanent Airmechs and (ironically) my 6-8 legged supermechs.

But from a realistic point of view, it still needs a NAIS and government funding to get anywhere. 

[fallen]

Redpins,
You and others on this thread have made a good point about needing assistance and funding in order to read the data core and use its information.  That need in itself could be a adventure hook.  Depending on the time period, who would you go to for help?  You could reach out to Comstar/Word of Blake (and possibly disappear from existence along with the data core).  You could go to one of the Major Periphery States, but they may not be as capable as a University like the NAIS.  Going to a Major House could trigger espionage on the part of rival Successor States.  There are small groups who may have the abilities necessary, like the secretive Niops Association.   Some of the elite mercenary commands who seem to know their way around Star League Tech may be able to help, i.e. Wolfs Dragoons, Eridani Light Horse, 4th Tau Ceti Hussars, etc, though loyalties could come into question.  Would a player group go to a Clan about this?  Would the Clans even be interested?  There are a lot of rabbit holes that I could follow this idea down.

[Red Pins]

Hmm.

Regarding the time period, I don't think it matters much.  The reputations of most of the IS/ComStar are pretty well known, from way, way back.  And Mercs are probably not going to have the resources, training, or a secure future or base, since they depend on selling their military services which may or may not be damaged/destroyed at any point in the timeline.

Which brings me to think the Periphery would be a preferred option, and only one or two stick out; the Taurian Concordat - and the Marian Hegemony.  The TC was around and educated/prosperous enough to do as the OP suggested and place a cache/data core outside their nominal borders in the hopes of recovering their tech base and clawing their way back up after the Reunification war and collapse of the Star League during the SW.  This scenario is practically made for this.

The MH option in more limited, in terms of era and contents.  With the more limited/primitive tech option, you could still expect serious rank and wealth bringing this kind of info to the Caesar.  The Age of War data would address one of the biggest complaints I have regarding the MH; that a society based on the Roman Empire wouldn't grasp the potential of Primitive tech, and the chance to expand and grow as a nation as that technology progresses.

(Seriously.  Next to the settings thing, this is my biggest trigger.)

I also expect them to be smart enough to know the core would be dead-center of every crosshair existing in the Periphery.  They don't have the resources to conceal it and still use it, so they'd have to look for help (Probably by joining the FWL.) to adequately protect it while allowing their allies to benefit from it while making a profit from it.  Most of the data would be useless to the more advanced FWL, but with their own resources and military, they protect it from the rest of the Periphery nations that might not appreciate being overrun with Hegemony raiders using Primitive 'Mechs and ASF while providing a market for anything that might come from it.

And I think anybody would agree the Clans are not an option.  Ever.  They're a society that embodies the old saying, 'Whats mine is mine, and whats yours is mine, too.'  There's no reward big enough for a crew of PC's in a militaristic, meritocracy-based society with their odd quirks.

Still an interesting plot hook, anyway.  Makes me want to write more fiction, based on such a thing.

[RifleMech]

In regards to reading the data core, if it's anything like the Helm Memory Core, all anyone would need to read it, and copy it is a jumpship. I'm sure there's other ground computers that could read it but the GDL used jumpships to copy the core after escaping Helm. Making use of the information is another matter. Since the biggest Periphery powers can already build BattleMechs, a pre-Star League memory core wouldn't really help in in a technological way. It'd give them more designs to choose from but not a tech advantage. Maybe if it helped them build new warships or something but I think most of the help could be in civilian areas. A post Refunication Memory Core with lost tech though, would help give them an edge. At least as long as that edge remained theirs. Once it gets out, they don't have the manufacturing capacity to keep it.

For the Marians though, I think having access to more primitive Mech designs would help them. If they can't produce fusion engines of their own though, they'd be built using other engine types. Probably ICEs but maybe FC or Fission depending on the heat and movement requirements. Granted they wouldn't be the best mechs but they'd be better than no mechs.

When it comes to getting help making use of the core, I don't think the Periphery would try to get help from the IS. They're not the best of friends. Maybe Comstar. Maybe. The Clans?  Depends on when and which Periphery Power. The Outworlds Alliance would probably ask help from the Ravens. Of course if the core is that dated, they'd be getting more tech help from the Ravens than the core. But I don't see most asking the Clans for help. They are decedents of the SLDF and the Periphery didn't like them either. I can't see them getting help from Mercs either. Why, before the Clan Invasion would they think that they'd have the ability to help with a memory core?  Most likely the Periphery Realm would be contacting independent researchers and scientists for help. It'd be easier to keep a lid on the secret that way.

As for people gunning for the memory core, I don't think anyone would unless word got out that they had one.  And by the time it was found, I would hope those that had it would be smart enough to make many many copies and hide them on every planet in their control. Places were nukes and ortillery aren't likely to strike. Really, I can't see other powers wanting to destroy it anyway. More likely they'd be wanting to make a copy for themselves but that depends entirely on what's being produced from it. I don't even think ROM would be that interested in primitive units. They'd certainly investigate but unless there's Warships, lost terraforming machines, tech to build stasis pods and other lostech, or tech no one's seen before, an ancient memory core isn't going to garner a lot of attention. A Periphery Realm building low tech/primitive mechs? It'd be interesting, and something to keep an eye on, but not a major concern. A Periphery Realm building lost unit types (warships) or producing lost/ entirely new tech? That's a major concern.

[Hellraiser]

Your explanation is a great real-world example of one of the published sourcebooks that talked about NAIS basically hand-building the first ER Lasers after the Helm Core was recovered. Thanks for sharing.

FYI, the "hand building" quote, I'm pretty sure, was how the NAIS was recreating CLAN ER Lasers they had captured, not the SLDF Core ones.

But point still very much stands about how things are not so simple if you don't have the right machine.

[XaosGorilla]

  If the data core has accurate information for refining and producing jump cores (for warships), then the data core would be so valuable that everyone would be interested. Further, if accurate “how to” data from mining to refining to construction were included then a periphery state MIGHT be able to improve themselves by adding shipbuilding, then shipping to build up their economy.
  Doing this without a neighboring state or comstar sabotaging that effort would require secrecy, deception and concealment on a massive scale.
  This comes down to what works at your table. 

  People or factions would certainly try though…..

[MDFification]

More JumpShip manufactures are something I've always wanted to see, given how... strange it is that you've got Periphery States with no domestic production, no HPGs and no details on whether or not they've got a state-owned fleet at all. The Dark Ages has been pretty good on this, actually - the Outworlds Alliance and Magistracy of Canopus now have domestic JumpShip manufacturing again.

If some datacore made it possible for more Periphery states to have proper shipyards, though, it'd upset the balance of power significantly. Because if they're *not* starved for transport assets, they've got no reason to just start colonizing the empty space beyond their borders - given a few centuries of this, there wouldn't really be a less sophisticated Periphery surrouding a richer Inner Sphere, and more a ring of rich civilizations surrounding an has-been, impoverished warzone.

[idea weenie]

We do have the prototype Jumpship rules available, so you could still have Jumpships being manufactured in the Periphery, but with a range of only 15 ly nobody in the Inner Sphere wants them.  Add in Dropships that would need 13% of their mass per thrust point, while pirates have the 30ly range and 6.5% per thrust point and you can have Periphery powers trying to rebuild, with random & rare attacks from pirates trying to stay alive, but those pirates have better tech.

The equivalent of the old X-Com game where the aliens had the higher tech, faster, and better armed ships

[glitterboy2098]

Too bad that TPTB have said that KF-boom dropship can't use dropshuttle bays. You could have worked up an interesting dynamic with periphery built primitive jumpships as common haulers.  But having to also have continued production of dropshuttles, or production of primitive JS with proper dropship collars, makes it largely non-viable.

[Red Pins]

 :fine_print:

You begin to understand my irritation with the absense of Primitive tech, then.  Welcome to the club.

[RifleMech]

:fine_print:

You begin to understand my irritation with the absense of Primitive tech, then.  Welcome to the club.

I've wanted more Primitive Tech for ages. The gaps in tech are irritating. Some of the decisions about tech are also quite frustrating. Fortunately we have House Rules.

[Red Pins]

I've wanted more Primitive Tech for ages. The gaps in tech are irritating. Some of the decisions about tech are also quite frustrating. Fortunately we have House Rules.

And fan projects.  I'm working on one now in my New Clans AU, where the Blakists try to take over the Legacy Cluster.  Lots of drones, primitives, homebrew tech, refits to Blakist designs - even finally managed a great cover.  Hoping to get it out next year.  Not much art, though.

[RifleMech]

And fan projects.  I'm working on one now in my New Clans AU, where the Blakists try to take over the Legacy Cluster.  Lots of drones, primitives, homebrew tech, refits to Blakist designs - even finally managed a great cover.  Hoping to get it out next year.  Not much art, though.

That sounds cool. One of these days I'm going to have to write out my own AU. We'd been working on more accurate anime crossovers but life keeps getting in the way.

[Red Pins]

That sounds cool. One of these days I'm going to have to write out my own AU. We'd been working on more accurate anime crossovers but life keeps getting in the way.

Life.  Can't live with it, can't live without it.   :ticked:

[RifleMech]

Life.  Can't live with it, can't live without it.   :ticked:

Yeah. And when it smacks you, you can't smack it back.

[CVB]

Life.  Can't live with it, can't live without it.   :ticked:

Life: a sexually transmitted disease, invariably fatal

[MDFification]

Too bad that TPTB have said that KF-boom dropship can't use dropshuttle bays. You could have worked up an interesting dynamic with periphery built primitive jumpships as common haulers.  But having to also have continued production of dropshuttles, or production of primitive JS with proper dropship collars, makes it largely non-viable.

Is it really non-viable? Sure, it'll be less economically efficient and couldn't compete with modern JumpShips, but if the Terran Alliance could use this tech to settle most of the Inner Sphere, it apparently works well enough that you'd expect this kind of tech to flourish in their absence. And most of the Periphery (and beyond) is so seldom visited by modern JumpShips that ComStar doesn't even bother to put it on their maps...

Plus, if you can build a primitive JS, you've got the industries required to build dropshuttles.

EDIT: Thinking about it, primitive JumpShips like the Aquilla were the tech that built the Taurian Concordate, and they were still being used by Periphery states in a military role as late as the Reunification War due to the limitations of their desire requiring them to have large cargo bays and powerful conventional drives. Essentially, a primitive JumpShip is a poor man's WarShip.

[Red Pins]

I thought Primitive JS could use collars at some point?  At the end of their building options, I think.  Whatever, I'm prepared to say house rule of I must for the sake of my project.

As for the Taurians, ...

:fine_print:

You begin to understand my irritation with the absense of Primitive tech, then.  Welcome to the club.