Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II  (Read 60290 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #90 on: 20 February 2020, 04:03:44 »
Yeah, the basic AC/20 had me wondering- its too bad we did not really get fluff write up for it.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #91 on: 20 February 2020, 07:22:28 »
Without evidence, we won't know for sure if its a Factory model, a Star League era pilot's custom ride or slap together from mid Succession Wars where tech was rare but still out there.

I am with MoneyLovinOgre4Hire, its does seem to be a factory model, which likely wasn't that popular or got started didn't get into mass production.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #92 on: 20 February 2020, 08:11:17 »
Seems like a transitional model between an Atlas II and a regular Atlas. It being out in the Periphery makes me wonder - if it's not a custom one-off or salvage job, maybe it's meant for Royal units that merit the advanced tech, but streamlined, due to the logistical problems inherent in their distant posting? Sharing parts commonality with Regular Army Atlases would greatly ease maintenance woes.
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Colt Ward

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #93 on: 20 February 2020, 10:16:55 »
I think there are pointers either way you want to go with things.  For example, IIRC the other 3 mechs you escape with are all stock Royals- Highlander 732b, Griffin 4N, and Black Knight 6b.  So it does not make sense that it is not a standard production model since none of the rest are really 1-offs or mods.

On the other hand, its a piece of standard tech while everything else that could be advanced (except the Grif's SRMs, and I LIKE regular for skirmishers) was the more advanced models- ERLLs, Gauss Rifle, ERPPCs, etc.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #94 on: 20 February 2020, 11:44:33 »
Well, the real reason is that it was a re-skin of the standard Atlas and as you said, no LB-X in the game. Salvage just makes more sense to myself but that's just me.
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Colt Ward

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #95 on: 20 February 2020, 11:57:00 »
Oh yeah, game mechanics vs fluff reasons all round.  I think its fine with the mystery and lets people decide what they want to do for their own games.
Colt Ward
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #96 on: 20 February 2020, 12:39:26 »
On the other hand, its a piece of standard tech while everything else that could be advanced (except the Grif's SRMs, and I LIKE regular for skirmishers) was the more advanced models- ERLLs, Gauss Rifle, ERPPCs, etc.

It still retains all the Atlas II's other advanced tech- ER Large Lasers, Medium Pulse Lasers, Double Heatsinks, FF armor, and CASE.  It's just the autocannon that got changed (and the weapon placements).
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Colt Ward

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #97 on: 20 February 2020, 12:47:55 »
I was comparing it to the other mechs in the lance you command from that cache as well as the equipment it sported.  With the rest being cutting edge, it could be evidence for the AC/20 being a stopgap measure to get something pushing damage since guass rifles were unavailable.

As far as placement, yeah it is closer to one of the post-3050 Atlases- I cannot remember the model that has a ERLL in each arm rather than a ML, S1?
Colt Ward
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #98 on: 20 February 2020, 12:58:28 »
No, the AS7-S is just an AS7-D with double heatsinks and rear mounted Streak 2s.  This looks a lot like an upgrade of the AS7-RS.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #99 on: 20 February 2020, 13:21:41 »
I knew there was one with ERLLs in the arms . . . but there are so many Atlas I variants now after the Jihad, along with the II & IIIs its kind of hard to keep in my head- especially for a mech I do not really use.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #100 on: 20 February 2020, 14:11:56 »
The RS just has standard larges in the arms.  It's an introtech variant that dates back to the Star League- it's in RS 3039 Unabridged.  The 7-K (the stock variant from 3050), 7-K2 and 7-K3 (from 3085), and 7-S2 (originally from Record Sheet: Upgrades) also use ER Large Lasers.
« Last Edit: 02 February 2021, 13:55:24 by MoneyLovinOgre4Hire »
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #101 on: 20 February 2020, 16:29:34 »
Yeah, though the way it's presented makes it seem more like it's a factory configuration (though the real reason behind it is because the LB10-X wasn't available in the game until the Heavy Metal expansion was released).
True but they could have just swapped the LB10 for the stock 10. But even with only 11 DHS, you can maintain a pattern of 2 ER large + run, 1 ER large + LRM 20 + run, 2 ER large + run, until you can bring the target inside 6 hexes.   Then switch over to AC/20, mplas, and SRM 6 until the target no longer offends you. I can see someone making the argument that this is more effective than the AS7-D-H.  I probably wouldn't agree with them, but I can see the argument.   Given my druthers, I'll take an AS7-RS over a stock -D, 7 times out of ten. There are some days when you know you can get in close and you just want to make very large holes in things.  And until the HGR comes around, nothing tops the AC/20.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #102 on: 20 February 2020, 19:46:12 »
The 7K has ERLL in the Arms, but also has Gauss & 300XL.

I think the S3 also has ERLL in the Arms from the Jihad era but has a 400 XL IIRC.

The layout of this thing really makes me think of the RS model.

The Command Console makes me think it was a limited production run for Regimental Commanders that combines features of I & II onto the same chassis.

And I agree, it would have been better to use AC10 with extra DHS.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #103 on: 20 February 2020, 20:00:10 »
I think the S3 also has ERLL in the Arms from the Jihad era but has a 400 XL IIRC.
Nope, that has Gauss, 2xPPC, LRM-15.

You're thinking of... K2, i think.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #104 on: 20 February 2020, 20:06:01 »
Nope, that has Gauss, 2xPPC, LRM-15.

You're thinking of... K2, i think.

Ah yes, that is the one.  I was thinking S because its manufactured by Defiance, but uses the K in the naming which I always found odd.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #105 on: 20 February 2020, 20:27:46 »
Ah yes, that is the one.  I was thinking S because its manufactured by Defiance, but uses the K in the naming which I always found odd.
Apparently Defiance developed K2 from Combine's Atlas-K, rather than using their own S-series as the base.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #106 on: 13 May 2020, 15:59:57 »
Late to the party, but perhaps the AS7-D-HT was a intermediate model, combining elements of the Atlas with the upcoming Atlas II?

Speaking of appearances, is the Atlas II really supposed to look markedly different than the original Atlas? Sarna.net doesn't have an image gallery for the II so there's not much to look at by way of comparison. There's just the one line drawing, apparently sourced from TRO: 3075. I'm assuming this is where the Darth Vader and wind-up toy references are coming from.

Is it possible that the Atlas II looks more or less like the original, and that the differences visible in the one canonical image we've got of the II is more due to artist interpretation than any significant alterations to the originals' appearance? Other "Royal" mech variants very closely resemble their standard siblings (being indistinguishable from any distance). Isn't an Atlas II essentially a Royal variant of the AS-7D? In any case, the game model for BTCG's Atlas II AS7-D-HT is identical in appearance, as far as I can tell, to the original AS-7D.

Furthermore, the apocryphal, fan made TRO: 3028 lists the Atlas II as a variant on its AS-7D page. There's no mention in the Sarna.net or TRO: 3028 entries that the Atlas II differs in appearance from the original Atlas.

Either way, I think the AS-7D-HT* was part of a limited production run because, IIRC, the cut-scene in Castle Nautilus on Artu showed several Atlases in the background. I find the idea of a cache of several AS-7D-HTs more plausible than the idea of one custom variant among several standard AS-7-DHs. Perhaps testing resulted in the adoption of the LB-X-10 instead and the AC20 test-bed versions were put on ice until they could be brought up to production standard. The Exodus occurred before this could happen and the arsenal on Artu was lost to time. In any case, in the BTCG, there wasn't nearly enough time to modify a standard AS-7-DH by swapping the LB-X-10 for an AC20 between the discovery of the cache and the ensuing battle with the invading Taurians.

IRL, weapons manufacturers almost always produce several identical models of a trial version of a weapon system and the production model (if/when selected) usually differs slightly in appearance. For example, take a look at the trial version of the M-16 and then compare it with the first production version and then later A1-A4 versions. The basic shape is more or less the same, but there are enough differences to be able to identify different versions by sight alone.

Anyway, I'm pretty new to Battetech so I defer to your experience and judgment. I just prefer to imagine the Atlas II as looking pretty much identical to AS-7D from MWO, which, IMHO, is very, very badass.

*I modded the Atlas II Kamea Arano awards the PC at the end of the campaign by replacing the AC20 with a Gauss rifle, the LRM20 for a LRM15, and the ER/pulse lasers with their standard counterparts. This gave me enough free tonnage to install three jump-jets. This created a monster that was just about as mobile as the Highlander 732B (my favorite) and could deliver an Alpha strike that could finish off anything lighter than an assault mech with a single shot aimed at the center torso (and it wasn't unusual to kill assaults with a single Alpha strike too). And, even jumping, it hardly ever got close to overheating. It was a real gem.


« Last Edit: 13 May 2020, 16:07:47 by Raellus »
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #107 on: 13 May 2020, 16:19:22 »
The 3075 art is currently the final canonical word on the Atlas II's appearance. By all indication, the Atlas II is essentially a new mech that shares a lineage with the Atlas, not merely a variant of it. Same goes for the Wolverine II.
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Raellus

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #108 on: 13 May 2020, 16:33:49 »
The 3075 art is currently the final canonical word on the Atlas II's appearance. By all indication, the Atlas II is essentially a new mech that shares a lineage with the Atlas, not merely a variant of it. Same goes for the Wolverine II.

I'm not arguing with you, but I don't have TRO: 3075 so I hope you can answer this question for me: Does TRO: 3075's description of the Atlas II mention anything about differences in appearance (compared to the original)? Or are we just going with artist illustrations? (Which seem to be open to a lot of subjective interpretation given the number of artists that have produced varying images of the same mechs over the years and many iterations of Battletech.)

The entry that starts this thread reads, "First produced at the Weapons Division of the Hegemony Research and Development Department on New Earth, the Atlas II uses the same skeleton and 300-rated Vlar engine of its progenitor. " [Emphasis added]

Again, I'm not arguing the point, but if the Atlas II uses the same chassis as the original, doesn't it stand to reason that it would look a lot like the AS-7D?

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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #109 on: 13 May 2020, 16:52:38 »
In a word?  No.

The artwork in TRO 3075 is exactly what the Atlas II is supposed to look like.  It's similar to the AS7-D, but still quite visually distinct from it in the shape of the head, arms, and body.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #110 on: 13 May 2020, 17:27:34 »
This is an Atlas:


This is an Atlas II:


That's all there is to it.

If your train of thought goes any deeper than that, trust me, you're grossly overthinking it.
« Last Edit: 13 May 2020, 17:32:26 by Weirdo »
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Raellus

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #111 on: 13 May 2020, 17:59:35 »
Thanks. What visual differences does the TRO: 3075 fluff article on the Atlas II mention? (I'm assuming there's some canonical fluff for the Atlas II as my copy of TRO: Succession Wars (the only TRO I own) includes a piece for every entry. On a side note, TRO: Succession wars also includes a different image of the AS-7D than the one you posted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the one in TRO: Succession Wars is the original image from the first edition of TRO: 3025. 
« Last Edit: 13 May 2020, 19:54:42 by Raellus »
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #112 on: 13 May 2020, 18:46:01 »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the one in TRO: Succession Wars is the original image from the first edition of TRO: 3025.
The Atlas AS7-D poster above is the new art from the Kickstarter. Same weapon placement as the original illustrated by Loose for TRO: 3025 so there is no conflict in fluff text with the hip mounted LRM.


Most metal Atlas mini's are based from the TRO: 3050 Rendition of the Atlas, the AS7-K






Nitpicking the details aside,t he Atlas II makes sure you know it's not a Atlas but a Atlas II

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #113 on: 13 May 2020, 18:57:14 »
Man, the mini for the Atlas II really has a Dracula Collar thing going on, huh.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #114 on: 13 May 2020, 19:22:37 »
By all indication, the Atlas II is essentially a new mech that shares a lineage with the Atlas, not merely a variant of it. Same goes for the Wolverine II.

I'm in the opposite camp here.

Adding a II to me doesn't make it a new mech.   Its still an AS7-D and the Wolverine goes from 6R to 7H, but its still a Wolverine.

The nickname of Wolverine-II, to me, comes across as the nickname "Fire Javelin", warriors gave it that nickname when seeing it on the battlefield, it didn't come off the production line with that name.

To me that is just a variant. 

But I also don't consider the Enforcer-III to be a "new" mech either, its the 3060 variant of the Enforcer is all.

Now that said, I do totally agree that the FFA Armor can change the outlook of the design which is what the Project: Phoenix mechs were all about in a lot of cases.
And as shown, they are not "new" mechs either.  Just 3067 variants.

Now, if you want to change the tech base &/or tonnage  (Marauder-IIC) then by all means, THAT is a new mech to be sure.

But hey, that's just my opinion on the matter.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #115 on: 13 May 2020, 19:36:53 »
Thanks. Does the TRO: What visual differences does the 3075 fluff article on the Atlas II mention? (I'm assuming there's some canonical fluff for the Atlas II as my copy of TRO: Succession Wars (the only TRO I own) includes a piece for every entry. On a side note, TRO: Succession wars also includes a different image of the AS-7D than the one you posted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the one in TRO: Succession Wars is the original image from the first edition of TRO: 3025.
It doesn't so much describe the differences as give you a picture.  The one Weirdo posted above, in fact.  The description focuses on the weapons and whatnot, though there is a passing reference to "the stylistic alterations in the Battlemech's appearance".
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #116 on: 13 May 2020, 19:38:23 »
The sequel moniker in the name really goes towards it's change in appearance more than anything else. The Atlas II, Wolverine II, Enforcer III all look significantly different from their parent mech. Somewhat ironically, it's the Clan sequel mechs that truly make a true departure from their name sake. Each Mad Cat share similarities but are  truly different   

Man, the mini for the Atlas II really has a Dracula Collar thing going on, huh.

So it's a Dracula, Darth Vader, Terminator mech... ok, we need to find a zombie build for this thing to live up to all our pop culture references. Is there anyway we can convince tptb to make a Royal Fantasy II now that Vader is a Disney Princess :D
« Last Edit: 13 May 2020, 19:40:03 by SteelRaven »
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #117 on: 13 May 2020, 20:35:28 »
I wonder why the Star League didn't just go the usual "Royal" route with the Atlas like they did with the Highlander, Griffin, Black Knight etc. Seems like that would be easier, more cost-effective, and timelier than producing a "new" version (i.e. the Atlas II).
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #118 on: 13 May 2020, 20:59:33 »
What's screwy to me in terms of HBS Battletech is that apparently, according to the artbook, they were at least designing a custom appearance for the Atlas II model in-game. Of all the things to not get retroactively added, that and the alternative designs for the Shadowhawk (Beyond the Umbra) were most disappointing.

That said, I'm convinced it was a one-off custom. The Griffin 2N in the game, as well as the Highlander, are both modified from stock; The latter doesn't mount Artemis IV and the former doesn't mount a GECM suite. While I'm aware neither were in the game at inception, I'm going to choose to believe the SLDF base was housing battlemechs under refit and repair that got left missing kit in exchange for other things.
« Last Edit: 13 May 2020, 21:01:27 by Caedis Animus »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: AS7-D-H* Atlas II
« Reply #119 on: 13 May 2020, 21:01:36 »
I wonder why the Star League didn't just go the usual "Royal" route with the Atlas like they did with the Highlander, Griffin, Black Knight etc. Seems like that would be easier, more cost-effective, and timelier than producing a "new" version (i.e. the Atlas II).

Many Royal units are almost new mechs in themselves, using weight saving material like Endo Steel, Ferro-Fiber Armor and DHS for the new loadout much like the Wolverine II and Atlas II. The Royal Highlander and Black Knight are actually the two of the most tame examples of Royal upgrades which is really a testament to there base design.   
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