Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Magi  (Read 19153 times)

Moonsword

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Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« on: 10 March 2014, 16:17:16 »
Vehicle of the Week: Magi

The Magi has a... colorful reputation among BattleTech players, to put it mildly.  It's widely regarded as the CGR-1A1 Charger of Star League vehicles for the sheer ridiculousness of running a vehicle that big that fast on a standard fusion engine.  Unlike the Charger, which has over two decades of being the go-to punchline for older players, the Magi isn't as well known, and it doesn't have the family of variants to redeem it.  Okay, it was also spared the undeniably wacky CGR-1L "upgrade" in that family, so the Magi does have one point in its favor in that particular contest.

To understand this beast, you need to look at  the Magi's history.  Actually, you need to look at its history in TRO3050U, because its history in TRO2750 reads more like a summary of a soap opera focused on military procurement than something intended to convey what the SLDF was trying to actually procure.  The Magi is Killosh Industries' response to a requirement for an infantry support vehicle in the Periphery territories in the early 28th century, although the SLDF's satisfaction with what they got was apparently mixed.  Killosh went bankrupt before Amaris launched his little coup.  This isn't a line-of-battle unit like the Manticore heavy tank, which operated in that same role during the Reunification War.  It's not intended to backstop infantry forces holding the line against BattleMechs.  The Magi's job is to be big, hard to kill without bringing real heavy weapons to bear on the problem, and extremely intimidating to anyone thinking of doing something nefarious.  It was not, at any point, to run around trying to support foot troops against genetically engineered men the size of a brown bear in hyper-advanced poewr armor, or at least it wasn't until ComStar decided to try it.  I'm not sure there's really a good reason other than the Magi's toughness and notably, the Word of Blake even introduced a new variant when they returned the Magi to the urban pacification role.  After the Jihad, between the white elephant nature of its size, the usage of the vehicle as an instrument of oppression by the Word, and the fact that honestly, it's a bit of a challenge to find roles that smaller, cheaper units can't do just as well (or better), the Magi was finally retired.  And there was much rejoicing.

At 70 tons, this is an urban patrol vehicle on a scale only a Lyran or an SLDF procurement officer could love.  The Magi's beating heart and biggest albatross is the massive Magna 350 fusion plant that eats up 44.5 tons.  Adding in the controls and structural tonnage, that leaves all of 15 tons for armor and weapons.  For scale, let's compare that to the 40 ton Myrmidon's raw numbers.  On a 200-rated fusion plant giving it the speed to pace a Magi, the Myrmidon has 21 tons of armor, weapons, and turret mechanism.  This is what it means to be the SLDF.  It means that where local yokels invest in Crown Victorias or fancy up-armored Hummer equivalents, or even a 40 ton tank, you bring a 70 ton whale of a vehicle to bear because you have that much money and that kind of industrial infrastructure underneath you.  That incredible size might even be one of the Magi's selling points when you start talking about the SLDF's goal of reminding Periphery populations to behave.  The armor is quite tough, especially without the distraction of a turret, 9.5 tons of ferro-fibrous arranged 44/43/40 with CASE making the Magi a notably tough critter.  That's another selling point.  The kind of low intensity conflicts the SLDF was trying to deal with might fry one of those piss-ant 10 ton APCs the infantry jocks were riding around in but that's not much of an accomplishment even for civilians with improvised weaponry.  You're not going to kill a Magi quickly unless you're willing to bring some serious weaponry to bear.  The IEDs are just going to annoy the crew.  That's probably also why they were tracked.  Tracked vehicles are harder to disable than wheeled ones.  Sure, you can drop a building on a Magi, but it'd better be a big one.  Small buildings are just going to annoy the crew.  When you remember that you're looking at an urban suppression unit, the incredibly light weaponry also makes sense.  Three medium lasers (one mounted forward and one on each flank) and two machine guns with a half-ton of ammo aren't going to make 'Mechs half the Magi's size blink.  There's just not enough concentrated punch to do anything quickly but that's not the Magi's job, either.  If the SLDF wanted to pound someone flat in an urban area, they'd drop a lance of Victors in.  The Magi is a different tool for a different purpose.  Against disorganized mobs, a Magi is intimidating and scary, and if they need to bring lethal force to bear, they can do it without having to worry about accidentally dropping a building in the process.

The Word of Blake looked at the Magi and said, “Yeah, a super-sized armored car is nice, but we need more.”  They got more by building their own new Magi for the first time since before the fall of the Star League.  Considering that Killosh went out of business, it's not clear where the factory line actually is, but this is definitely a factory-level refit or a brand new model considering that the first thing the Word's techs did was replace the engine with a 350 light fusion engine, freeing up an incredible 10.5 tons.  The next stop was their local BlakeShack for a C3i module to take advantage of the speed and armor.  Two more machine guns and a half-ton of ammo were added, with all four MGs mounted in an array.  Finally, the remaining six tons went to an infantry compartment large enough to move a Level I of battle armor (medium or lower under TO rules) or a full-sized Level I foot platoon with plenty of room to spare.  Since this was intended to move BA, my suspicion is that stuffing regular infantry in might result in the Word's answer to the Galleon Clown Car, but the rules don't actually stop you.  Overall, this is a much more flexible, genuinely useful variant and while the Word intended it as an urban combat support vehicle, the Magi (UCSV) could be pressed into service as a heavy C3i spotter or BA taxi in other terrain.  Don't confuse it for an IFV, though – any increase in firepower other than the machine guns comes from the rest of the Level II using its C3i data.

Okay, so I've made my argument that this is a ludicrously over-sized Hogarthian exercise in urban pacification instead of a bewilderingly pointless procurement decision because the ferro-fibrous armor was shiny.  What do you do with the Magi when you're not oppressing the locals proclaiming the glory of the Star League?  The Magi is big, tough, fairly sporty, and not very well armed at all.  That usually means you want to play spotter.  Until they figure it out, your opponent will probably have better things to shoot at, and once they do figure it out, that's where that ferro-fibrous armor comes in handy.  Besides, at the end of the day, the Magi is there to work with the infantry, and under SLDF doctrine, guess who owns the field guns?  For the Word, this goes double, but you may want to get the BA into ambush positions first.

References: The Master Unit List is a great first stop, revealing that the FRR was apparently desperate enough to take some Magis from their ComStar sugar daddies benefactors.  The Word of Blake is the only faction represented by a Magi on CamoSpecs.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #1 on: 10 March 2014, 16:35:29 »
Hm, do the Lyran Magi still use SpinnaZ on the road wheels?

Honestly the Charger comparison is far too apt.  Well armored, very fast for its size, capable of nasty physical attacks, and...a popgun gunline otherwise.  It's not AS bad as the CGR-1A1's 2.5 ton "arsenal" but well...you're not going to be taking out much.

I think it's an intimidation weapon, pure and simple.  Considering the brand of lasers, well, one can imagine the kinds of aesthetic grotesquery that would decorate their sides when the officers are off-world.  And if I read Sarna correctly and see that it was used for Periphery unrest, well, that makes some sense.  Use it purely as a morale-masher, run over the occasional jaywalking civilian and make sure everyone see those machine guns.  The lasers are there for when someone sticks some armor plate on a pickup and needs a photon pimpslap; the sheer size is just to intimidate the population and in the freshly-repaved streets remind them who's boss.

Seriously, I'd mod the treads to have stamps, just so that every eight inches it leaves a little "STAR LEAGUE LOVES YOU YEAH" in the ferrocrete.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #2 on: 10 March 2014, 16:58:10 »
To me, the best usage of a Magi is kinda like a not-as-atrocilicious Ignis, or a modern Assault Breacher Vehicle. The infantry find a building infested by rebels, and call in the Magi. It rorars up to full speed, and smashes its way into said building, then fires at anyone inside with the lasers and MGs. Meanwhile, while the occupants are distracted by the armored whale that just invited itself into their den, the hole it made is used as a convenient point of entry for a few platoons of foot troops to mop up anyone the Magi missed.

The Magi is one of the few vehicles I'd actually take into the teeth of infantry fire, as the tracked chassis, heavy armor, and loads of spare MP means that even a solid infantry salvo into the tank's side is unlikely to disable it, and the followup troops means that they likely won't get a second chance.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #3 on: 10 March 2014, 17:03:13 »
Seriously, I'd mod the treads to have stamps, just so that every eight inches it leaves a little "STAR LEAGUE LOVES YOU YEAH" in the ferrocrete.

A genius suggestion!

The ready availability of other MBT suggests why no-one ever took the logical step of downgrading the engine, as per its spiritual brethren the Charger or Banshee. The WoB variant is logical enough as a command vehicle - you wouldn't use it to carry a Level I of Infiltrators for covert deployment - but it doesn't take much to come up with a Brummbar or JSU-152 variant, which may have been more useful for the Blakeists in the final days of the Jihad.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #4 on: 10 March 2014, 17:27:04 »
Frankly, my first thought when I saw it was "fast cav CEV" but any realistically useful equipment is just way too heavy for the five-ton load.  Maybe the SLDF used the thing as a poster child for the need for XLFEs in tanks.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #5 on: 10 March 2014, 17:57:06 »
Frankly, my first thought when I saw it was "fast cav CEV" but any realistically useful equipment is just way too heavy for the five-ton load.  Maybe the SLDF used the thing as a poster child for the need for XLFEs in tanks.
A better question is why this thing doesn't have an XLFE, it it, after all, all about bling

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #6 on: 10 March 2014, 19:42:47 »
Frankly, my first thought when I saw it was "fast cav CEV" but any realistically useful equipment is just way too heavy for the five-ton load.  Maybe the SLDF used the thing as a poster child for the need for XLFEs in tanks.

Kind of telling that it didn't get a Royal version, I think.

EDIT: In more seriousness, I'm having a hard time thinking of what a Royal version could do without breaking its role as a "Go home before we get annoyed" wagon.

EDIT 2: One more thought on the Magi's, ah, design eccentricities. It doesn't seem it would be worthwhile to try and capture one if you're a restless native. You wouldn't need Star League tech to reliably put one down if turned against you.
« Last Edit: 10 March 2014, 19:50:59 by misterpants »
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #7 on: 10 March 2014, 20:30:31 »
I wish Magi had gotten some love from TacOps, to allow its other medium lasers to be able be used with help of Sponson Turrets.  If a vehicle needed them, this big boy certainally did.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #8 on: 10 March 2014, 21:18:32 »
A couple seasons ago Mythbusters took on the old saying "You can't polish a turd" and busted it.



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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #9 on: 10 March 2014, 23:25:16 »
Dunno about a royal version, but a postmodern unit with...oh, an XLFE, CERMLs and APGRs...and more armor and an armored motive system.  Still a Magi, even more a pain in the butt.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #10 on: 11 March 2014, 14:35:36 »
Wasn't the original fluff that it started out as essentially a testbed for FF armor on vehicles? And then just kept rolling, kind of?

A Royal Magi, using an XLFE, a big forward gun, and an infantry compartment, doesn't feel out of place to me. Breacher vehicle deluxe!

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #11 on: 11 March 2014, 15:42:03 »
I've always liked the Magi, though, like the Zahn, its one of those designs whose tonnage makes you pause before taking it.

The other thing that makes me pause is the lack of turret. Sure, the design's medium lasers face to the Front and Sides, but the machine guns (even in the later Blakist variant), only face to the front. For city fighting, this can be a pretty heavy detriment. Under TW rules, with the infantry rules, the medium lasers are even worse off covering your flank.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #12 on: 11 March 2014, 16:19:51 »
I've always liked the Magi, though, like the Zahn, its one of those designs whose tonnage makes you pause before taking it.

The other thing that makes me pause is the lack of turret. Sure, the design's medium lasers face to the Front and Sides, but the machine guns (even in the later Blakist variant), only face to the front. For city fighting, this can be a pretty heavy detriment. Under TW rules, with the infantry rules, the medium lasers are even worse off covering your flank.

I've long pondered the simple change of switching the MGs and side-mounted lasers to give infantry protection on the flanks, and a three-laser 'hello' to the front. But at the end of the day, that only mildly polishes the turd- this thing just is too much engine on too big of a tank. Proof that even the SLDF got stupid once in a while (see: Cameron-class for further examples).
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Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #13 on: 11 March 2014, 16:28:27 »
I wish Magi had gotten some love from TacOps, to allow its other medium lasers to be able be used with help of Sponson Turrets.  If a vehicle needed them, this big boy certainally did.

This is really your highest priority for a sponson upgrade? ???  The Magi is in far less desperate need of sponsons than the Puma is.  Side-facing medium lasers in an urban combat vehicle actually make a kind of sense and the Magi isn't really intended to go toe-to-toe with other armored vehicles anyway.  Side-facing LRM 20s in a main battle tank that should be facing the enemy at the kind of range take a lot more explaining.  (And by explaining, I mean alcohol.)

Wasn't the original fluff that it started out as essentially a testbed for FF armor on vehicles? And then just kept rolling, kind of?

A Royal Magi, using an XLFE, a big forward gun, and an infantry compartment, doesn't feel out of place to me. Breacher vehicle deluxe!

It's not even that coherent, which is why I was so utterly dismissive of the TRO2750 fluff in the article.  TRO2750 just said the RFP was "tank with ferro-fibrous armor" and then it went into a bit of procurement soap opera about a scandal but an investigation couldn't find any reason for undue influence.  The SLDF just kind of wound up using it as an infantry support vehicle.  It's pretty clearly not a ferro-fibrous prototype even going by just the dates in TRO2750 itself, where it's directly stated that the Magi entered production in 2727.  The Burke, which dates back to the Reunification War, uses ferro-fibrous armor.  So do the Thor (production 2680) and Zephyr (introduced in the 2620s).

As GWA commented when he covered the Magi, the 22 tons you get with an XLFE makes an XLFE Magi a completely different vehicle.  I'm not going to speculate there.  Odds are the SLDF just didn't see a need to invest that kind of money in what they definitely considered a second-line unit, especially with the Royal Demon available.  They didn't upgrade a lot of their second line or limited use hardware but because most of it isn't part of that set that's really highlighted as an SLDF unit (mainly what's in TRO2750), it looks more unusual than it really is.
« Last Edit: 11 March 2014, 17:30:48 by Moonsword »

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #14 on: 11 March 2014, 17:00:18 »
This is really your highest priority for a sponson upgrade? ???  The Magi is in far less desperate need of sponsons than the Panther is.  Side-facing medium lasers in an urban combat vehicle actually make a kind of sense and the Magi isn't really intended to go toe-to-toe with other armored vehicles anyway.  Side-facing LRM 20s in a main battle tank that should be facing the enemy at the kind of range take a lot more explaining.  (And by explaining, I mean alcohol.)
Well, no.  However, if you look at the image and the miniature itself, its screams it.  Heck I know people who aim all three of the lasers forward.   Sure there alot other things that needs to be upgraded on the vehicle.  Side-ways weapons like that aren't such a hot idea.   WoB variant was great improvement for it, but the vehicle is no-where ville now because of the C3i tant that sent whole vehicle into the trash pale, unless there upgrade/refit for them remove C3i for something else.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #15 on: 11 March 2014, 17:07:26 »
...I don't usually do this, but...

take a lot more explaining.  (And by explaining, I mean alcohol.)

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #16 on: 11 March 2014, 17:18:09 »
This is really your highest priority for a sponson upgrade? ???  The Magi is in far less desperate need of sponsons than the Panther is.  Side-facing medium lasers in an urban combat vehicle actually make a kind of sense and the Magi isn't really intended to go toe-to-toe with other armored vehicles anyway.  Side-facing LRM 20s in a main battle tank that should be facing the enemy at the kind of range take a lot more explaining.  (And by explaining, I mean alcohol.)
Moonsword, I think you mean Puma, not Panther

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #17 on: 11 March 2014, 18:47:50 »
Moonsword, I think you mean Puma, not Panther

All good and well. Anything to contribute to the actual discussion?
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #18 on: 12 March 2014, 05:53:03 »
"Galleon Clown Car"  Don't tell me that someone turned a Galleon into an APC :s Its the size of a Mini :s  And this article finally makes the Magi make sense in my head. I thought it was a huge white elephant but an urban pacification unit makes a LOT of sense.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #19 on: 12 March 2014, 10:52:59 »
"Galleon Clown Car"  Don't tell me that someone turned a Galleon into an APC :s Its the size of a Mini :s

the Galleon Maxwell.. XL engine, armored motive system, sponson turreted SPL's and MG's, turreted ML, 4 ton infantry bay intended for battlearmor.

jihad era design produced on the planet Maxwell for the dutchy of Tamarind in the former FWL.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #20 on: 12 March 2014, 11:12:24 »
Well now that's an idea actually... an XL engine means you really could get another couple of MGs (it's urban fighting, right?) and a big honking infantry bay on this thing. What's better for urban pacification than dumping a big load of soldiers in amongst the rioters? The SLDF didn't use battle armor, obviously, but the amount of standard infantry in this thing would be pretty impressive.

...But, alas, instead we're still stuck with the two canon versions, neither of which I would trust to fight off a decently-piloted bug Mech. Pity.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #21 on: 12 March 2014, 11:17:11 »
Not one mention of charging with this thing?  That's the best weapon it has.  70 tons of tracked metal.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #22 on: 12 March 2014, 11:36:55 »
Not one mention of charging with this thing?  That's the best weapon it has.  70 tons of tracked metal.

That's a decent option as well, true enough. Aim at an Archer's legs, drop the pedal, and hope the airbags work.  ^-^
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #23 on: 12 March 2014, 13:30:51 »
One thought I have that you can do with the Magi is put some flamers on it. There was a mech or vehicle (I really want to say the Firestarter) that the tanks used to hold the flamer gel could be swapped out for alternative liquids. If that is the case, then you tell the urban rioters to have a drink from the SLDF fire hose.

Another option for a role as an urban combat vehicle is to put TAG and Beagle Active Probe on the thing and give the Magi an ability to locate insurgents and call in artillery for situations that it and the infantry can't handle...
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #24 on: 12 March 2014, 14:03:01 »
One thought I have that you can do with the Magi is put some flamers on it. There was a mech or vehicle (I really want to say the Firestarter) that the tanks used to hold the flamer gel could be swapped out for alternative liquids. If that is the case, then you tell the urban rioters to have a drink from the SLDF fire hose.

Another option for a role as an urban combat vehicle is to put TAG and Beagle Active Probe on the thing and give the Magi an ability to locate insurgents and call in artillery for situations that it and the infantry can't handle...

Not as big on your second option, since there's so little space on this thing anyway- we're only devoting five tons to weapons and ammo as it is, I'd hate to cut into that further with electronics! If we go the XL motor route, sure, but if we do that we might as well use something better anyway.

HOWEVER. Your first idea has a lot going for it, actually. I like the idea a lot- flamers are heavier than MGs, sadly, so we either drop to one flamer in place of the MGs or have to shave some armor to get another one on. I'd also like more ammo for it- if we're going to have the ability to use flamer fuel or other options (I think it was the coolant truck that mentioned the option to switch fuel types), it would be good to be able to switch. But that might be worth losing some armor to gain that kind of flexibility. I like it!

(One note- vehicle flamers can switch fuel types, but since a Mech-style flamer taps from the fusion engine rather than using napalm, they wouldn't be able to do this. So Firestarters being turned into fireFIGHTERS seem to be out.)

Also, if this variant somehow ever gets made, I demand that the writers make the unique pilot Sgt. Stanley Spadowski. Fire hose for ALL!  ^-^
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #25 on: 12 March 2014, 16:43:34 »
Also, if this variant somehow ever gets made, I demand that the writers make the unique pilot Sgt. Stanley Spadowski. Fire hose for ALL!  ^-^

With all my power, I second this!
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #26 on: 13 March 2014, 02:12:07 »
the Galleon Maxwell.. XL engine, armored motive system, sponson turreted SPL's and MG's, turreted ML, 4 ton infantry bay intended for battlearmor.

jihad era design produced on the planet Maxwell for the dutchy of Tamarind in the former FWL.

...how the hell did they fit them in there :s  The Galleon's a small machine and with its XL engine its going to have even less room internally. it says on Sarna it was designed as a BA carrier, did they lash them to the outside as wildly inappropriate (and probably screaming in fear) ablative armour?

Also Re side mounted weapons, I always thought they could fire to the front and they were on a sponson like mounting to allow them to swing out to cover the flanks.
« Last Edit: 13 March 2014, 02:14:32 by marauder648 »
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #27 on: 13 March 2014, 10:52:31 »
...how the hell did they fit them in there :s  The Galleon's a small machine and with its XL engine its going to have even less room internally. it says on Sarna it was designed as a BA carrier, did they lash them to the outside as wildly inappropriate (and probably screaming in fear) ablative armour?
You think that's bad, the unit's fluff describes a video going viral that shows an attempt to fit a conventional infantry platoon in there... ;D
Quote
Also Re side mounted weapons, I always thought they could fire to the front and they were on a sponson like mounting to allow them to swing out to cover the flanks.
My group used to house-rule that, but no, they don't. The firing arcs of side-mounted weapons is essentially the empty space between the front and rear arcs, with no overlap at all. Kinda sucks, but that's why actual sponson turrets are a legitimate piece of gear.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #28 on: 13 March 2014, 14:32:37 »
You think that's bad, the unit's fluff describes a video going viral that shows an attempt to fit a conventional infantry platoon in there... ;D

Which TRO. I must read this. Now.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #29 on: 13 March 2014, 14:35:16 »
XTRO Marik, I think?
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #30 on: 13 March 2014, 18:59:42 »

The Magi, to put it bluntly, is a COIN vehicle. And a pretty good one for dealing with a breed of insurgent known as the "urban guerrilla". Fighting these pests on the tabletop makes for a hog-wild good time.

However, as a support unit for light infantry and BA, in normal urban combat scenarios (i.e. against well equipped government troops from a major interstellar power), the Magi does suffer a bit for it's over-specialized design. It'll work in a pinch. But it's not ideal.


As for the UCSV variant, I'm not overly fond of it. It's the same gripe that I have with units like the Ranger VV1. Light infantry rarely hides in flimsy structures in cities, unless forced to. And proper infantry tactics in urban operations call for heavy cover, since dealing with heavier units is the norm. Machine gun-heavy designs are of limited utility unless you have heavier weapons to deal with heavier cover. Thus, the Magi UCSV's designers should have devoted that spare weight from the LFE toward additional forward lasers and heat sinks, rather than a MG array and more forward facing machine guns/additional ammo.

The addition of an infantry bay was a nice touch, though. But even so, the UCSV is still an anti-insurgency unit and riot control vehicle for the MP companies. In other words, a nicer Ignis. Not a true urban combat IFV.


« Last Edit: 13 March 2014, 19:01:56 by oldfart3025 »
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #31 on: 14 March 2014, 02:22:52 »
Which TRO. I must read this. Now.

Agreed! Someone put it here for great justice!  And giggles.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #32 on: 14 March 2014, 07:01:30 »
And likely violate the forum rules? Please don't.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #33 on: 14 March 2014, 07:09:49 »
Ahh okay didn't know it was against the rules.  As he said  please don't!
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #34 on: 14 March 2014, 08:34:13 »
In other words, a nicer Ignis.

This exactly. It doesn't hunt entrenched enemy troops(though it can do the job in a pinch), it hunts rebels.

Interestingly, the Magi may be one of those vehicles that's better at engaging said rebels outside of urban areas, while most ICVs and COIN trucks are more at home in the concrete jungle. Rebels trying to ambush a supply convoy or similar are most likely going to be using hidden heavy support weapons for the job, or technicals. In either case, actual military vehicles are unlikely(though admittedly not unheard of). The lasers of the Magi have similar range brackets to most big support guns, and their placement allows it to fire on almost any target immediately despite the lack of turret. If you're popping an ambush and you see a Magi or two roll into your trap, you know two things: One, they'll likely survive your opening salvo, since instakilling a Magi without truly heavy firepower is almost impossible. Two, the moment you open up, it will too. Even if you have them surrounded, you know it'll be burning down someone in your group, and there's very fair odds it'll be you.

Given the sheer size of the Magi compared to most other ISVs/ICVs/etc, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets the Distracting quirk when we get hard quirks for these units. Being a foot or motor trooper and seeing a massive slab of tracked armor bearing down on you(and closing FAST) is probably akin to being the fighter jock in Star Wars who just noticed that he's got the attention of a Star Destroyer. You might have a good plan for getting out of this alive, but that much metal bearing down on you is still damned scary. #P

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I think I might actually want to pick up some Magi minis for my Clan forces. Until the Falcons rolled out the Death Chalupa and Sokar, old cached Magi are probably exactly what they used for their heavy urban pacification jobs, and they'd certainly be a cheap way to bulk out a Clan Watch force.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #35 on: 14 March 2014, 08:36:02 »
Oh?  No plasma canon Indra?

The Magi's laser arrangement always had me thinking of a tank that was meant to hold an intersection.  In the event that it is immobilized it can cover the majority of it's firing arcs like a pillbox.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #36 on: 14 March 2014, 08:41:58 »
Oh?  No plasma canon Indra?
Oh YES Plasma-Indra. >:D But again, that's a relative newcomer to the game. I'll bet Magi are what they pulled out when they first rolled through during the invasion, and were confused/torqued that the locals didn't bow down to them.
Quote
The Magi's laser arrangement always had me thinking of a tank that was meant to hold an intersection.  In the event that it is immobilized it can cover the majority of it's firing arcs like a pillbox.

A very good tactic here. That massive armor means that even parked, stacking rules make it a pain in the ass to bypass with combat vee forces, and two Magi can block them completely. Even better, they can serve as mobile bunkers, with infantry using cover rules to hide behind them, giving them even more cover than they'd have otherwise.

Looking on the MUL, the Alpha Strike stats are pretty solid. The armor's just as tough as in the regular game, and 2 damage out to medium range is solid firepower for such a cheap tank. In an Alpha Strike or BForce game, I'd gladly put Magi in my line combat forces, or as heavy ISVs for mechanized infantry formations. O0
« Last Edit: 14 March 2014, 08:47:51 by Weirdo »
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #37 on: 14 March 2014, 14:31:05 »
Why am I reminded of the scene from the Dragnet movie with Dan Aykroyd and the police entry vehicle by this discussion? :)

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #38 on: 15 March 2014, 09:30:25 »
Am I the only one looking at this thing and thinking. "Hey, it has got a grill. Reminds me of a Bentley or some other limousine. I bet the SLDF soldiers loved the thing for their saturday nights, especially modular jacuzzi mounted on the back."

Sad thing the tracked movement type probably doesn´t allow the lowrider quirk.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #39 on: 15 March 2014, 10:33:40 »
Not understanding the dislike of the Wobbie upgrade.  More MGs, actual transport space (curiously missing in the original) and the c3i comp is handy as your Magi is going to be advancing anyway.  For a Protectorate Militia formation that is a nice addition.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #40 on: 16 March 2014, 06:56:59 »
As for the UCSV variant, I'm not overly fond of it. It's the same gripe that I have with units like the Ranger VV1. Light infantry rarely hides in flimsy structures in cities, unless forced to. And proper infantry tactics in urban operations call for heavy cover, since dealing with heavier units is the norm. Machine gun-heavy designs are of limited utility unless you have heavier weapons to deal with heavier cover. Thus, the Magi UCSV's designers should have devoted that spare weight from the LFE toward additional forward lasers and heat sinks, rather than a MG array and more forward facing machine guns/additional ammo.

The addition of an infantry bay was a nice touch, though. But even so, the UCSV is still an anti-insurgency unit and riot control vehicle for the MP companies. In other words, a nicer Ignis. Not a true urban combat IFV.

That infantry bay and the C3i are actually where the bulk of the tonnage went.  The MG array seems like more of an afterthought.  I tend to agree that the firepower isn't great but it turns the variant into more of a super-heavy APC and spotter, although if you're trying to use the C3i, as the Jihad went on ECM would have been more useful than the extra machine guns.  On the other hand, as the war went on after 3068, the Word probably had higher priorities than building garrison vehicles for the Protectorate as holding territory became a more complicated problem than just keeping the locals under control.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #41 on: 16 March 2014, 07:38:20 »
I like the idea of using the damn things as battering rams and pray that the airbags work well when you slam into a mech's legs.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #42 on: 17 March 2014, 00:55:57 »
At the risk of seeming like a fool, I'm going to come out and say it:  I still agree with the original TR:2750 fluff.

When you have a society controlled by a (ostensibly) strong central government, with more money and resources than it knows how to spend wisely, corruption and waste inevitably set in.  Things that normally wouldn't be economically justifiable (whether in the civilian or military sectors) get done and built just because they can be, not because they make any real sense**.  At least one other BT publication (TR:VA) has hinted that things like this happened during the years of the first Star League (see the last sentence of the entry for the Marco Explorermech).  And I still think it's quite easy to see how the Magi is a product of those same tendencies, of a military-industrial complex with an outsize budget and that needed SOMETHING to do.

Ultimately, I think the Magi's OOC raison d'etre is much like that of the CGR-1A1 Charger:  it's there primarily to justify the existence of the 350-rated fusion engine.  ;D  (What was the first unit to use a 350 XL?  The Excalibur?)

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #43 on: 17 March 2014, 12:07:05 »
I mentioned the SLDF's sheer size and power in the article - it's part of the comparison with the Myrmidon's tonnage and it goes just as far to why you'd buy a 70 ton vehicle to do something a 30 to 40 ton platform could do probably more capably.  The only thing all that size gets you is that it's really freaking big.  Hence the description as "Hogarthian" at one point.

My problem with TRO2750's fluff is there's no description of what the SLDF was asking for other than "can i pls haz dis shiny armor".  There's no specification of what the hell the vehicle is supposed to do, just the armor.  That's either an oversight on FASA's part or whoever wrote that for ComStar did it under the influence of absinthe and ROM figured it was inaccurate enough to leave it in when they sent the disinformation document off to the printers.  The idea that someone slipped the line troops a white elephant and it was shuffled around until it found a home makes perfect sense but the solicitation for vehicle designs rubs me the wrong way.

As far as the 350XL goes, it depends on the question you're asking.  I'd have to do more digging on the MUL than I have time for right now to find out the in-game dating although the Excalibur is probably correct.  I think the first one published was probably the Summoner.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #44 on: 10 January 2020, 02:59:34 »
Also Re side mounted weapons, I always thought they could fire to the front and they were on a sponson like mounting to allow them to swing out to cover the flanks.
;D My group used to house-rule that, but no, they don't. The firing arcs of side-mounted weapons is essentially the empty space between the front and rear arcs, with no overlap at all. Kinda sucks, but that's why actual sponson turrets are a legitimate piece of gear.

IIRC, way back in citytech l, what the Magi was designed under, all (non turret) weapons had 120 degree arcs. This meant that yes, they acted as spontons. Same thing with the Puma.

Edition changes give toughness, take arcs. I think vehicles as a whole still won the exchange, even if it was rough on those two.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #45 on: 10 January 2020, 09:50:50 »
IIRC, way back in citytech l, what the Magi was designed under, all (non turret) weapons had 120 degree arcs. This meant that yes, they acted as spontons. Same thing with the Puma.

Edition changes give toughness, take arcs. I think vehicles as a whole still won the exchange, even if it was rough on those two.
That would explain a lot of things. Which would resolve some of the problems the machine has. I don't believe it was originally intended to be anything but "MORE ARMOR, less guns" style regular tank. The update is really nice. It does need  machine guns for the urban role.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #46 on: 10 January 2020, 10:05:31 »
If we were talking about anything other than a Magi(or similar), machine guns SUCK in most urban combat. Buildings of any kind completely kill the burst fire damage unless you enter them(so, they're actually okay on BA or breachers like the Magi), and overwatch is practically required if you're ever going to catch a platoon with more than two brain cells between all 28 men out on the street.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #47 on: 10 January 2020, 10:43:58 »
Is there a quirk that adds an extra arc of coverage to compensate for vehicles with primary side mounted weapons?  Something like that would help alleviate the loss of cover.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #48 on: 10 January 2020, 10:53:22 »
Nope. Players must make do with tactics and planning.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #49 on: 10 January 2020, 11:05:44 »
Given that it's an edition chance issue, I'd have no problem house-ruling it for the Magi, Puma, (I think there's a chopper,) and letting later designs use the current rules

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #50 on: 11 January 2020, 11:40:49 »
Given that it's an edition chance issue, I'd have no problem house-ruling it for the Magi, Puma, (I think there's a chopper,) and letting later designs use the current rules
There werde other rules of the firing arcs?
I tried lately to make some sense from the side mounted lrms of the Puma, I thought maybe when using a lance they could play hedgehog and fire on multiple targets that try to encircle them.
At least you don't get secondary target modifiers.
But whelp it run poorly, I'm total convinced that two LRM15s in the turret would have been of better use.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #51 on: 11 January 2020, 14:49:36 »
the answer is six posts upthread

Citytech 1, released 1986, where vehicles (Aside from the scorpion) were added to the game. I am not sure when the arcs changed to the current version.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #52 on: 11 January 2020, 21:38:21 »
To understand this beast, you need to look at  the Magi's history.  Actually, you need to look at its history in TRO3050U, because its history in TRO2750 reads more like a summary of a soap opera focused on military procurement than something intended to convey what the SLDF was trying to actually procure.


I am entirely certain that “a soap opera focused on military procurement” is a thing that has happened in BT.  Probably in the LyrCom.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #53 on: 11 January 2020, 21:45:29 »
So, Sgt. Bilko, but without any attempts at comedy?
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #54 on: 11 January 2020, 21:48:09 »
Like you can't find some nearly as bad in reality...

just look in the off-topic tanks threads.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #55 on: 12 January 2020, 20:13:40 »
So, Sgt. Bilko, but without any attempts at comedy?

Review the Magi's weaponry again and tell me there was no attempt at comedy.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #56 on: 12 January 2020, 22:38:14 »
The Magi also seems like a convoy escort/MRAP design. Lots of armor, multiarc light guns, high speed movement towards trouble areas, and so on. 

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #57 on: 13 January 2020, 08:33:08 »
I am entirely certain that “a soap opera focused on military procurement” is a thing that has happened in BT.  Probably in the LyrCom.

I wouldn't be surprised.  This thing makes the Alaska design process look like a thoughtful discussion among learned elders.  (Plus Jackie Fisher.)

Review the Magi's weaponry again and tell me there was no attempt at comedy.

This.  All of this.

The Magi also seems like a convoy escort/MRAP design. Lots of armor, multiarc light guns, high speed movement towards trouble areas, and so on. 

Eh, as I pointed out almost six years ago, it's a staggeringly inefficient way to go about it.  The Myrmidon's setup gets you almost 50% more useful tonnage on a vehicle 30 tons lighter.  That means Myrmidons can go places (and cross bridges) Magi can't because the track pressure and infrastructure requirements are lower, not to mention being massively cheaper and using a more common engine.

There's also the part where we're talking about dedicating a 70 ton vehicle to counter-insurgency duty because that's the only thing it's really capable of.  Yes, it's capable of doing that job, but at that size range, I expect the firepower to deter something a bit bigger than up-armored flatbeds.  At least keep local yokels in recovered Locusts thinking twice about hit-and-run raids!  The Magi doesn't really clear that bar.

This is very much a case of making lemonade from super-sized lemons.
« Last Edit: 13 January 2020, 08:35:31 by Moonsword »

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #58 on: 13 January 2020, 09:45:33 »
We're told very little of the intent behind the Magi. How do you know it wasn't built for COIN work from the very beginning? Remember, your talking about the Star League, which faced determined insurgencies throughout it's entire existence, and preferred to throw planetary GDPs at problems.

Eh, as I pointed out almost six years ago, it's a staggeringly inefficient way to go about it.

You forget: In Battletech, inefficiency is a feature, not a bug. Triply so if the SLDF got involved. You're talking about a military that bought forty failed battlecruisers out of fear that they might be seen as wasting money.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #59 on: 13 January 2020, 09:58:54 »
I'm well aware the SLDF's procurement process was deeply, deeply fiscally stupid.  These are the same people who bought the Puma and the Charger, among many other bad ideas.  That doesn't mean the Magi doesn't deserve a fair bit of grief, not least for being a counter-insurgency vehicle that's so big you can escape from it by crossing a stream.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #60 on: 13 January 2020, 10:01:53 »
Oh, I never said the Magi was very good at what it does. Having a job and being good at said job are two very different things.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #61 on: 13 January 2020, 21:22:29 »
Oh, I never said the Magi was very good at what it does. Having a job and being good at said job are two very different things.

...I feel attacked. ;)
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #62 on: 13 January 2020, 21:39:53 »
...I feel attacked. ;)

It's okay, I'm not very good at it.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #63 on: 13 January 2020, 23:07:27 »
We're told very little of the intent behind the Magi. How do you know it wasn't built for COIN work from the very beginning? Remember, your talking about the Star League, which faced determined insurgencies throughout it's entire existence, and preferred to throw planetary GDPs at problems.

You forget: In Battletech, inefficiency is a feature, not a bug. Triply so if the SLDF got involved. You're talking about a military that bought forty failed battlecruisers out of fear that they might be seen as wasting money.

I think that in the case of the Cameron, it was more a matter that the finished product fell far short of the original design specs and killing the project outright would be tantamount to the SLDF Admiralty admitting they themselves had failed to supervise it properly, so they went ahead with the purchase in order to mask their own shortcomings.  The Magi is a different matter, since the original fluff puts it down pretty much to straight-up cronyism.

cheers,

Gabe
 
« Last Edit: 14 January 2020, 07:10:21 by gyedid »
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
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TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #64 on: 14 January 2020, 06:45:19 »
Going back and reading the OP I find myself thinking of something I once wrote about the Skulker.

"what else can you do with it? "

If I may elaborate. Once you put an appropriate engine on a Skulker under 3025 tech you could really only mount a single Medium Laser and a heap of armor. I made this in comparison to Clan light tanks which had a lot more options available beyond a ML and so naturally would have a lot less armor compared to a comparatively over armored Skulker.

Bringing this back to the Magi. Once you have accepted the design brief is to be based around a 350Std engine what room do you have for anything else? Without being able to check I am wondering why this isn't an 80 ton min max concept tank like a Charger? Is the 80 ton tank better or worse?

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #65 on: 14 January 2020, 07:56:45 »
Such a discussion belongs in Fan Designs, please.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #66 on: 14 January 2020, 08:17:18 »
Bringing this back to the Magi. Once you have accepted the design brief is to be based around a 350Std engine what room do you have for anything else? Without being able to check I am wondering why this isn't an 80 ton min max concept tank like a Charger? Is the 80 ton tank better or worse?

Trying not to cross the line into fan designs but I think the (out of universe) intent was for the magi to be a charger on tracks. Because of the extra engine shielding mass vehicles require, it hits the "biggest and fastest you can get" ten tons earlier than the charger.

I've always thought the writer's intent was "hey, I made this big dumb ridiculous thing, you try to get the best you can out of it, because it's hilarious."

Hmmm.... combined arms force of Chargers and Mackies.   
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #67 on: 14 January 2020, 12:34:01 »
If it had TAG it could possibly be justified as an artillery spotter.

But it doesn't...

The fact of it is the original TROs 3025, 3026, 2750 and 3050 are filled with crap like this.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #68 on: 14 January 2020, 13:15:48 »

Hmmm.... combined arms force of Chargers and Mackies.

No, Mackies would actually add significant firepower to such a force. 

Cheers, Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #69 on: 14 January 2020, 14:25:11 »
It would be Chargers and Banshees.

The early SLDF put allot of importance into mobility (thus, LAMs) so it shouldn't be a surprise.

I personally see it as a sort of Battle Taxi but more of one that is meant to stay out of the fight. Thus all engine to get the hell out. I'm sure fans have created better designs for this but the BTU can be weird regarding standard ground vehicles.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #70 on: 14 January 2020, 16:00:31 »
Such a discussion belongs in Fan Designs, please.

I am not asking what else a fan might do with the Magi. Rather if your base design specification is make the fastest heavy tank you can using effectively 3025 tech your options for hardware beyond a few lasers and a slab of armor get really limited.

As Liam has kindly researched for us the Magi is a "biggest fastest" design/concept like the Charger and suffers accordingly. Once that is recognized you can be a lot more forgiving about armament options and downright sorry for the author who has to explain it.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #71 on: 14 January 2020, 17:14:51 »
No, Mackies would actually add significant firepower to such a force. 

Cheers, Gabe
Pretty sure he meant Chargers and Magi.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #72 on: 14 January 2020, 22:49:56 »
Pretty sure he meant Chargers and Magi.

Oh I know what he meant, I just wanted to get him to re-read it  ;D

Cheers, Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #73 on: 14 January 2020, 22:50:57 »
Pretty sure he meant Chargers and Magi.

Yeah, no idea how it ended up Mackie.  ;D
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #74 on: 17 January 2020, 06:27:37 »
...well there is something the Magi can do the Myrmidon can not: its obviously the better tractor. So you have an adequate armored vehicle that can tow cargo with moderate speeds....

still a lemon

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #75 on: 17 January 2020, 08:25:58 »
...well there is something the Magi can do the Myrmidon can not: its obviously the better tractor. So you have an adequate armored vehicle that can tow cargo with moderate speeds....

still a lemon
So it should've been commissioned as a recovery vehicle instead, in that case.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #76 on: 17 January 2020, 22:30:41 »
Wondering about the name...is each one of the medium lasers supposed to represent one of the Three Kings of Orient?

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #77 on: 18 January 2020, 09:18:37 »
Wondering about the name...is each one of the medium lasers supposed to represent one of the Three Kings of Orient?

I wouldn't want to be following a Star in it! (Although now I might fire up MM to see how long it would last ...)
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #78 on: 19 January 2020, 01:12:04 »
It was probably a reference to the Zoroastrian priests.  FASA seems to have mostly avoided overt references to Christianity in unit naming themes.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #79 on: 19 January 2020, 17:53:11 »
It was probably a reference to the Zoroastrian priests.  FASA seems to have mostly avoided overt references to Christianity in unit naming themes.

Well, there is this picture of a mosaic which shows the Gospel Magi attired in distinctively Persian garb:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi#/media/File:Magi_(1).jpg

Note especially the peaked caps and patterns on the leggings.

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #80 on: 19 January 2020, 19:30:50 »
Yes, and that contradicts what I said how?
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #81 on: 24 January 2020, 16:31:00 »
I wonder what the original request was, I have a feeling that this is a major case of scope creep.  It might have started as something totally different but due to "requirements"  the design changed and changed.  In the end what was delivered was the Magi that we know and "love".

Looking to real life, watch "The Pentagon Wars".  Or read up on most modern military programs.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #82 on: 27 January 2020, 20:13:28 »
Yes, and that contradicts what I said how?

I re-iterate that there are THREE medium lasers on the Magi and that's all I'm going to say about that.

I wonder what the original request was, I have a feeling that this is a major case of scope creep.  It might have started as something totally different but due to "requirements"  the design changed and changed.  In the end what was delivered was the Magi that we know and "love".

Looking to real life, watch "The Pentagon Wars".  Or read up on most modern military programs.

So what they wanted was an urban pacification vehicle using ferro-fibrous armour that also had to be able to tow field guns at a good clip...?

cheers,

Gabe

So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #83 on: 27 January 2020, 20:45:01 »
Again, so what?  It's still a name that is far more associated with another religion entirely.  Two entirely coincidental facts do not a compelling argument make.  If it had a few more references, say in its weapon models or chassis type that would be a stronger case.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #84 on: 27 January 2020, 23:58:53 »
We know the manufacturer of the lasers, I'm disinclined to think there was a reference at all.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #85 on: 28 January 2020, 16:42:34 »
Dunno, I think the Blakist's C3i makes a decently armored spotter even if its not the 'best.'  I would have liked to see a 2nd WoB variant that swapped out the weapons to for a Plasma Rifle.  I mean you can nearly do it already with the stock SLDF model, but the UCSV gives you the ability to put it in with 2t ammo.

It would be the super-Main Gauche ISV.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #86 on: 29 January 2020, 07:50:47 »
Dunno, I think the Blakist's C3i makes a decently armored spotter even if its not the 'best.'  I would have liked to see a 2nd WoB variant that swapped out the weapons to for a Plasma Rifle.  I mean you can nearly do it already with the stock SLDF model, but the UCSV gives you the ability to put it in with 2t ammo.

It would be the super-Main Gauche ISV.

I kinda dig that, actually. Halfway decent little urban-renovation platform, mobile and tough... I'd use one.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Magi
« Reply #87 on: 29 January 2020, 11:37:22 »
I am a fan of anything fast-ish that transports BA and has a plasma rifle . . . unfortunately, its a really small list.

Heh, next open game I am going to have to send a mechanized Ogre platoon out!  4 Main Gauche ISVs with 4 Ogre squads . . . and maybe a Havoc, ah the giggles.
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