Ahh.. the 100 ton firebreathing hatchet wielding goodness that is the berserker..
Wonders why they never opted to create a version sporting TSM instead of MASC...
Ahh.. the 100 ton firebreathing hatchet wielding goodness that is the berserker..
Wonders why they never opted to create a version sporting TSM instead of MASC...
Berserker has one of the coolest illustrations:
"Intimidating Paint Job" (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Intimidating_Paint_Job_CCG_Mercenaries.jpg)
>:D
As said before, I do not know the state of the production lines. I can only hope that this design lumbers forth into the Dark Ages and causes much pain to any invaders that try and stop them. I mean, look, the design’s name practically screams Dark Ages to many…
I wish the axe on the miniature looked that good. That's an AXE. The mini has... eh, I don't even know what you'd call that, but it's not nearly as intimidating.
Going down a speed level, but adding a supercharger and armoring just about everything in the design might actually cheapen the mech.^^
So while I agree that Berserker's mini Hatchet is not exceptional, I really like Berserker's Hatchet from the cover of TRO:3055U and Plogg's illustration inside.
I love how flashy and brutal the Berserker is, but what bothers me is that i've been told by many folks. Kicking specially the TSM enhanced version just more damaging than the hatchet.
I'm not really seeing the cost issue. It's Lyran after all. The money saved on all those Fafnirs with their SFEs should easily make up for the increased cost of a couple Berserkers. Heck, just put a supercharger on a 400 LFE or XL while it retains the TSM. A mech like that is allowed to cost 38 million+.
This statement was approved by the LAAF/LCAF office of procurement and its head THOMAS HOGARTH!!!!!!1
I've never been impressed by them. Giving up 7 tons and Criticals for the increased hatchet damage (just 10 points over a single punch) results in an underarmed costly assault mech. Hatchets, or any of the other physical weapons just don't inspire me as much as when I was a younger fan. I now just see a waste of tonnage in a weapon with no range, that suffers the additional penalty of having to survive the firing phase and a knockdown check to boot to be of use. I'd rather just drop that hatchet, add jump, more close in weapons, and kick or double punch. It would be even better if it could jump 5.
That said, the C3 is at least a worthy threat. The first has a popgun at range and is otherwise a side torso casualty, perhaps best used as a fire magnet to draw attention from your real threats while generating a high DMM combined with initally tough armor. The second one is just confused and hates itself.
I recommend making it even more expensive with stealth armor and Angel ECM, trusting that the enemy will want to shoot at it, and watching him just not hit.
While yes, the hatchet does take a lot of tonnage (and crits) that could be better used for other weapons (or equipment), its the fear factor it inspires..
It's the similar problem as with the old HBK-4G Hunchback in 3025 games - BRZ-C3 simply attracts disproportionate amount of enemy fire because of those 40-points Hatchet swings.
I fear 40 pointkicks more. Minimum of two piloting checks at +1, plus any leg criticals..if there still is a leg left.
Only if you are using those advanced rules, otherwise it is just one pilot check at +1, plus leg criticals if there is still a leg
left.
Your 'problem' is my 'at least they are shooting a heavily armored assault Mech'.It's pretty expensive (both BV-wise and C-Bills-wise) decoy, then.
Also, IMO, all melee Mechs benefit from using Tac Ops. A Berserker with the ability to walk and axe someone after the movement phase gives a whole new meaning to 'bubble of doom'Tactical Operations rules are optional, so you should announce your intent to use them to your opponents before the game starts - which means that you "disclose" your tactics. Moreover, they may say (and rightly so) that you are trying to secure additional advantage just for yourself because no one else brought Melee 'Mech to the battle.
I fear 40 pointkicks more. Minimum of two piloting checks at +1, plus any leg criticals..if there still is a leg left.
Tactical Operations rules are optional, so you should announce your intent to use them to your opponents before the game starts - which means that you "disclose" your tactics. Moreover, they may say (and rightly so) that you are trying to secure additional advantage just for yourself because no one else brought Melee 'Mech to the battle.
Kicking may be hazardous. Miss your kick and consequently your PSR roll - and and you will be lying at your enemy's feet.
Kicking may be hazardous. Miss your kick and consequently your PSR roll - and and you will be lying at your enemy's feet.
Yeah, my usual rule is: If you want to use something from TacOps, then I can use something from there, as well. This is why, in my
group, Ghost Targets really does not slow our games down much..seems everyone loves that one.
That's generally a chance I'll take unless my to-hit roll really sucks (in which case there'd be little point in trying a physical attack at all in the first place). Kicks are magically accurate, meaning I have a good chance of simply not missing, and even if I do the required PSR is usually easy. Plus they usually cost me nothing. I can't punch with an arm from which I've already fired weapons that turn, so there's a tradeoff there, and dedicated physical weapons have to be designed into my 'Mech in advance at the expense of tonnage and space...but a kick at an enemy in front of me I can basically always make unless (a) I've lost a hip actuator already, in which case I've got bigger things to worry about anyway or (b) I'm sitting in something called Crusader.
Free accurate bonus damage of opportunity plus a shot at forcing a PSR in exchange for a fairly miniscule chance of falling myself? Sure, I'll take that. (And that is, basically, the problem with kicks in a nutshell.)
Now with a designated physical combat design like the Berserker, sure, I'll make a point of not simply always falling back on kicks if I can help it. I paid for that weapon, so I'll do my level best to get some mileage out of it, too. But in general combat I see and use at least two to three times as many kicks as I do all other physical attacks taken together, and there's good reason for that as well.
My personal preference is usually to "play it safe". If I fall down, it may be difficult to get up, and even if I will get up, I will spend my precious MPs doing so.
It's the similar problem as with the old HBK-4G Hunchback in 3025 games - BRZ-C3 simply attracts disproportionate amount of enemy fire because of those 40-points Hatchet swings.
which a savvy player can use to their advantage.. one time years back when i was not as good a tactician, i was in a game where my opponent had a Berserker and some Marauder II's heading towards my own assault lance. not being very tactically smart at the time, i kept focusing my fire on the beserker, fearing it's hachet.. while the Marauder II's just kept up a steady barrage of fire pounding my mechs.
eventually a lucky shot took the berserker down, and his marauder's wound up too close to survive against my mechs (i was limited in mech choices at the time, so i had assaults with more close range than long range firepower.)
if you know your opponent is likely to make the mistake of focusing fire on an enemy for its 'potential' rather than its actual current threat level, you can use that to trick them into wasting their firepower or pull them into a position more favorable for you.
OUCH... But since you need 2 slots free in each location (bar the CT and head) and with the hatchet you only get one in that arm, you could not do it.
So, the BRZ lets you force the enemy to make a choice: kill it from a distance before it closes and creates mayhem or ignore it and risk an axe to the face :-\
In many ways the most interesting part of these articles is the "how to kill it" part and with this 'Mech it seems to be quite hard as you are either ignoring too many other 'Mechs to take it down or risking some one-axe-blow-kills once it's closed
Your 'problem' is my 'at least they are shooting a heavily armored assault Mech'. Also, IMO, all melee Mechs benefit from using Tac Ops. A Berserker with the ability to walk and axe someone after the movement phase gives a whole new meaning to 'bubble of doom'
Just to clarify, one could sprint for 10 MP and still have the ability to axe somebody afterwards?No, you can't do that.
No, you can't do that.
I guess that probably he meant the Physical Defence rule.
No, you can't do that.
I guess that probably he meant the Physical Defence rule.
Ah. I was starting to wonder.
Well, if that's the one, then I'm not overly impressed. Most of the time I'd be grateful to somebody who voluntarily turned his or her 'Mech into a stationary target for a turn just to delay its movement (with a possible physical followup attack) until the Physical Attack phase.
Probably not grateful enough not to shoot at them while I can and they're not allowed to, but you can't have everything. ;)
Unless they were already running hot and turned off enough sinks to stay there.Yeah, that's possible. But when I am weighing the pros and cons, I am not sure if that all is worth it. Because the proper recon ought spot something (hopefully).
Well, the rule (if it is that one) may have some uses when fighting in a city or a broken terrain. Just imagine you won initiative, you and your opponent did your units movements, and then during the Physical Attack phase the Berserker or the Neanderthal moves out of some gorge or sidestreet into the contact distance with its Hatchet ready.
One positive fact: This rule forbids weapons attacks and therefore, it effectively neutralizes TSM 'Mechs such as those two aforementioned units since they need weapons to keep themselves hot. They can attack, but it will be standard damage only.
There is a solution to that... Actually two. Three if you are a real evil bastard with it.
Null Sig, Chameleon, and possibly Void if you read it as you are unable to be seen unless you move.
Try that last with your TSM active... and some poor shlub doesn't see you and stops right in front of you... with his back turned.
I remember one game where thunder munitions had put a minefield between my Berzerker A3 and its target....The target
actually moved around to put the mine field between me and him. Tactically, a smart , since that also put 7 hexes between
us(in a Straight line!) What sort of maniac would try to close with that, right? This sort of maniac, actually. After all, mine fields
are actually fairly hard to get to pop (needing a roll of 9+ on 2d6). So...I kicked on the MASC, and declared a charge. My opponent's
second mistake was that he landed on the spot of terrain with a sheer drop on the other side, and I did the math that a Charge plus
the fall would do the most damage I could inflict.
Imagine the poor enemy pilot: He sees the Berserker barreling straight towards him at top speed, mines blowing up
as it passes past them(I actually had 2 hexes go off in the run, but they were 10 point fields) to charge him for 70 damage,
plus a 3 level fall....
Now if kicks didnt have the -2 modifier, hatchets would be a lot more attractive. But they do, so there we are.
So, the BRZ lets you force the enemy to make a choice: kill it from a distance before it closes and creates mayhem or ignore it and risk an axe to the face :-\
In many ways the most interesting part of these articles is the "how to kill it" part and with this 'Mech it seems to be quite hard as you are either ignoring too many other 'Mechs to take it down or risking some one-axe-blow-kills once it's closed
Thinking about it, a Fafnir could kick after it fired two heavy gauss into someone's face, if at a penalty, no?
Kicking may be hazardous. Miss your kick and consequently your PSR roll - and and you will be lying at your enemy's feet.
Of course, trying to hit a target with both HGRs and then kick it in the same turn kind of necessitates eating that +4 minimum range penalty on each shot first...
What really irks me is that kicking applies to self damage; A Mechs feet are clearly not designed for smashing into an armoured steel construct with high horizontal velocity, not much more than the target should be build for taking it.
So with the damage being as high as it is, that should hurt your mechs legs as well.
Taking out a Leg on most things up to 70 tons is equally devastating to me, and may result in fall damage.
What really irks me is that kicking applies to self damage; A Mechs feet are clearly not designed for smashing into an armoured steel construct with high horizontal velocity, not much more than the target should be build for taking it.
So with the damage being as high as it is, that should hurt your mechs legs as well.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.
Well, taking out a IS machines side torso mounting an XL engine instead of the Mad Cat example equals an insta-kill.
Doesn't get much better than killing off heavy mechs with a single stroke. ;)
You can actually cut a Timber Wolf in half with the -C3's hatchet. You have to hit him Center Torso rear, but it is possible... ;)
That makes me remember the first time i used a Ti Ts'ang... O:-) >:D
TSM and melee weapon in one mech will always cause beautiful scenery of torn ablative armor,ripped metal innards,broken endoskeleton and death of man-made sun.
TSM and melee weapon in one mech will always cause beautiful scenery of torn ablative armor,ripped metal innards,broken endoskeleton and death of man-made sun.
It also makes the twin plasma rifle/ plasma cannon armed opponents smile. 24 heat is not a fun place to be.
Meh, it's only a shutdown roll and a fairly passable ammo explosion check (and who wants to live forever, anyway?). Now if I wasn't in a TSM 'Mech and 24 heat meant I was also a complete sitting duck next turn, then I'd be in trouble. :DYes but next turn when your hit with the heat beat stick again you will hit autoshutdown levels and it's hard to avoid because you'll have shutdown so many heatsniks and you might not able to bring enough on line, and if you weren't at Heat Level 9 but actually higher you're in an even worse postion
Yes but next turn when your hit with the heat beat stick again you will hit autoshutdown levels and it's hard to avoid because you'll have shutdown so many heatsniks and you might not able to bring enough on line, and if you weren't at Heat Level 9 but actually higher you're in an even worse postion
The new JHK-03 Jade Hawk pretty much requires that you turn off a lot of heat sinks. I'm not even sure if you're allowed to turn off partial wing cooling,
No, not even when you don't jump.
I think of Berzerkers as urban shepherds. What would need shepherding? Fenrirs, Hetzers, Demolisher IIs, Typhoons, SRM carriers, y'know. There's a lot of stuff that might get lost in a Lyran metropolis if left to wander off on their own. Small children, tourists, scout companies...
Well, that's a little problematic, then. Aside from jumping 3 or walking (and letting the third JJ or the supercharger go to waste) there's no way to generate an odd amount of heat, so given the PW's three heat dissipation you can't stay at nine heat.
I...I think the supercharger might be there to give yourself an engine crit and make staying at nine easier. Maybe not just for that, but...it really simplifies things.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.
If you're using TSM, JJs are kinda beside the point. An Engine supercharger would be much more useful.
Exactly StCptMara. Raw speed is only so useful, and in urban environments a 4 hex jump movement can be vital. Even a shortened jump (3/2) can be useful for clearing buildings and obstacles safely and stalking your prey, especially if using scenario/double-blind rules that allow that mech to hide and ambush potential prey.
I think of Berzerkers as urban shepherds. What would need shepherding? Fenrirs, Hetzers, Demolisher IIs, Typhoons, SRM carriers, y'know. There's a lot of stuff that might get lost in a Lyran metropolis if left to wander off on their own. Small children, tourists, scout companies...
And...Cities? They are my home. Seriously, my group uses clear plexiglass over city map boards to keep track of building CF as
we run and smash through them to get at each other..
I think the IS market Jade Hawk is just a very bad design. ;)
Though the artwork is awesome.
"bad" as in "really, really much less than what it could have been".
Actually, we knew pretty much what that stinker was going to look like. It lines up quite well with the original design specs from the original Dark Age material.
Whatever you want to say about the JHK-03 and the standard Jade Hawk, the Jade Hawk 2 is a very different ball of wax. And a much sparklier one than the JHK-03 since it's lit up like a Pink Floyd concert after dark thanks to those laser heat sinks.
EDIT: The Clan base model and the JHK-03 both have enough SRMs to be enormous pains in the neck to tank commanders, too, especially if they pile on with the ERSLs. You're running the risk that the tank gets to return the favor but no one running tanks wants that many SRMs spammed across their rear or side arcs.
Ah No Dachi's.....Cruelst fate I saw was a declaration of an Alpha Strike..then the opponents completely ignored it to fire at and damage another mech because, sure enough, he blew up from his own ammo.
It's amazing how that has never happen to me. Oh wait. It's because I know what I'm doing in a Kurtia death trap.
It's amazing how that has never happen to me. Oh wait. It's because I know what I'm doing in a Kurtia death trap.
It was almost as fun as when you inferno'd one of your own allies TSM equipped Mechs to 'help' them on the heat scale when they wouldn't engage. :)
And...Cities? They are my home. Seriously, my group uses clear plexiglass over city map boards to keep track of building CF as
we run and smash through them to get at each other..
That. . .is a really good idea. going to suggest that to our gaming group.
Heh. Not strictly cricket by the book (you're not allowed to target friendlies, period), but of course there's no good in-universe reason why you couldn't do exactly that. ;)
I mean, 9 heat would still be a perfectly fine breakpoint for TSM 'Mechs even without BV -- but would people really feel quite as driven to always get and stay there purely on TSM's own merits?
I would. If it wasn't for TSM you wouldn't want to hang out at heat at all.
I suppose, but what about TSM supposedly makes it so that once I have it I suddenly do? What's keeping me from just saying "hooray, I've got TSM, guess I'll save it for an inferno-rich day" and then simply running the 'Mech just as cool as I would if I didn't?
I suppose, but what about TSM supposedly makes it so that once I have it I suddenly do? What's keeping me from just saying "hooray, I've got TSM, guess I'll save it for an inferno-rich day" and then simply running the 'Mech just as cool as I would if I didn't?
There's the whole BV thing I already mentioned in my last post, of course. But other than that?
I haven't seen where you added the new materials.Wrangler, it's the paragraph that begins "Sometime after the Jihad, Defiance revisited the Berserker and successfully..." It's from RS:3145 NTNU.
Never played a Berserker or gone up against one, but I'd still like to pick one up. It's just such a cool 'mech.
As for the hatchet, I like the weird square sideways one in the official art. The Harried Salaryman and his Briefcase of Perdition take no prisoners.
It's worth it. But skip the miniature- or at least be ready to mod it. That axe is really disappointing, sorry to say. :(The looks the best in a running pose;
Oh no argument- which means a lot of cutting and pinning in the legs to do. Since I'm terrible at that sort of thing, not much I can do about it.Chicken. Seriously though, the best practice is to just go out and do it. If you screw it up, well suddenly your "running" pose turns to a "badly damaged and running for home" pose. And if you screw up really badly it just ends up as the wreckage decorating the base of another mech. You just gotta take some chances.
And it still doesn't fix the axe. For seven tons, I want something that looks like a blade from hell- that hardly even looks like an axe. Compare it to the original artwork, and look at how small it is!
I've seen someone replace it with a GW axe from some Warhammer model or other, that looked pretty great- THAT I might be able to do myself, but cutting the legs up like on the two pics above is well beyond my abilities.
Chicken. Seriously though, the best practice is to just go out and do it. If you screw it up, well suddenly your "running" pose turns to a "badly damaged and running for home" pose. And if you screw up really badly it just ends up as the wreckage decorating the base of another mech. You just gotta take some chances.
For the legs & arms, you might be able to get away with slowly bending each joint. You might not get as dramatic a pose as cutting and pinning, but you could get a walking pose instead of merely standing. Or you could get a trotting post out of a walking one, depending on the sculpt of the particular mini.
(https://i.imgur.com/6gLTA20.jpg)
Re-done 'zerker you say? :D
Done by Matt Plog, this is a take on the C3 but used in Solaris. My issue with the Zerker, and its the only one, is its look. The fluff says DI spent many many monies on designing the Berzerker to look scary and imposing. It looks like it was designed by Apple, lots of smooth, rounded edges and sweeping curves which work to make it look oddly elegant for a 100 ton machine who's whole purpose is to get close and go "IMMA PUNCH YOU WITH MY AXE!!!!" That one looks a bit more bitey, less Apple and more "I WILL BITE YOUR TORSO!"
(https://i.imgur.com/6gLTA20.jpg)
Re-done 'zerker you say? :D
Done by Matt Plog, this is a take on the C3 but used in Solaris. My issue with the Zerker, and its the only one, is its look. The fluff says DI spent many many monies on designing the Berzerker to look scary and imposing. It looks like it was designed by Apple, lots of smooth, rounded edges and sweeping curves which work to make it look oddly elegant for a 100 ton machine who's whole purpose is to get close and go "IMMA PUNCH YOU WITH MY AXE!!!!" That one looks a bit more bitey, less Apple and more "I WILL BITE YOUR TORSO!"
Berserker has one of the coolest illustrations:
"Intimidating Paint Job" (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Intimidating_Paint_Job_CCG_Mercenaries.jpg)
>:D