What if anything will the discontinuation of metal minis from GW mean for IWM?

[General308]

so why did we get away from lead? was it the poisoning aspect? that does seem strange, not that lead is much easier to come by these days

Because parents and bussiness had a lead panic attack.   So everybody got scared of anything with lead.   Not that lead should be in kids toys don't get me wrong.   But minis are not toys.

[General308]

IWM will not be headed back to lead minis. Had a conversation with Mike Noe about it after Reaper announced the P-65 line.  The gist of it comes down to the material may be cheaper, but the head aches accompanying it are not worth it. There are more strict guidelines for safety  concerns that could effectively negate that savings for a company as small as IWM.

Honestly they need to figure out something.   The price of minis today really hurts the whole market if you ask me.  I have trouble talking myself into some of them at the current prices.  Don't me wrong IWM isn't ripping ups off matteral cost has gone up.  But they need to find a more affordable matterial.

[sounguru]

Won't change the price one bit....

What I would like to see is a plastic mini (a battlemaster for example) that is highly detailed comes in like 30 pieces with enough pieces to make any of the current variants that are out.

Posing positions and modding ease would go way up... I would pay more for that option than what we have now. The maker could then sell the base pieces separate so that you could then use the extra bits to make another at a little cheaper price.

Then if you wanted to go over the top you could have one chassis and with rare earth magnets have several variants depending on the game....  :D

[Bedwyr]

Won't change the price one bit....

What I would like to see is a plastic mini (a battlemaster for example) that is highly detailed comes in like 30 pieces with enough pieces to make any of the current variants that are out.

Posing positions and modding ease would go way up... I would pay more for that option than what we have now. The maker could then sell the base pieces separate so that you could then use the extra bits to make another at a little cheaper price.

Then if you wanted to go over the top you could have one chassis and with rare earth magnets have several variants depending on the game....  :D

<aside>

You're alive!!!

[sounguru]

<aside>

You're alive!!!

I have been just not on the forums...  :P

[Bedwyr]

I have been just not on the forums...  :P

Hi!!! :)


<back to conversation>

[General308]

Won't change the price one bit....

What I would like to see is a plastic mini (a battlemaster for example) that is highly detailed comes in like 30 pieces with enough pieces to make any of the current variants that are out.

Posing positions and modding ease would go way up... I would pay more for that option than what we have now. The maker could then sell the base pieces separate so that you could then use the extra bits to make another at a little cheaper price.

Then if you wanted to go over the top you could have one chassis and with rare earth magnets have several variants depending on the game....  :D

Plastic would be nice but the start up cost is so high

[I am Belch II]

I would love to see the price of miniatures go down, but I doubt it will effect the price.

[tBanzai]

Looks like the prices increased rather than the other way around like some people may have expected.

[Valour]

Yep, check out the announcement:

http://ironwindmetals.com/d/node/1624

"Rapidly rising pewter prices have necessitated Iron Wind Metals to do an in-depth check on the actual costs of our various products. As a result of this cost check we will be instituting a price raise on some BattleTech SKU’s effective 5/1/2011. Rather than an across the board raise, we are limiting the raises to those SKU’s most in need of adjustment.
We will be raising the MSRP on six BattleTech Clamshell Sets and 146 BattleTech Blister Pack SKU’s.
The effected SKU’s are listed on the attached Excel Spreadsheet.
We are now reviewing our Fantasy lines and may have another limited increase there in May.

Current prices will be honored through end of business on Friday April 29th.

Mike Noe"

Looks like I have to clear my shopping cart before the end of April!

[Jal Phoenix]

Most of those price increases are insignificant, but I love how those tiny Scout Drones jumped by $3.  Still, it's getting time for me to find a new hobby.  $15 for a single mini is just too much, especially when the first ones I ever bought were $3.50. 

[sounguru]

Most of those price increases are insignificant, but I love how those tiny Scout Drones jumped by $3.  Still, it's getting time for me to find a new hobby.  $15 for a single mini is just too much, especially when the first ones I ever bought were $3.50.

Ahhhhh ...  the good old days... I still have dreams of the dragon I bought for $19.50 that all metal and stood 11" tall...  ;)

I still think high detailed plastic with lots of options is the way to go but no one listens to me anyway...  ::)

[JadeHellbringer]

Ahhhhh ...  the good old days... I still have dreams of the dragon I bought for $19.50 that all metal and stood 11" tall...  ;)

I still think high detailed plastic with lots of options is the way to go but no one listens to me anyway...  ::)

On the bright side, at least you finally noticed that.  ;D

[sounguru]

On the bright side, at least you finally noticed that.  ;D

I go away for a year and you are still slinging  :-X at least I now know the world is well....  ;D ;D ;D

[General308]

Yep, check out the announcement:

http://ironwindmetals.com/d/node/1624

"Rapidly rising pewter prices have necessitated Iron Wind Metals to do an in-depth check on the actual costs of our various products. As a result of this cost check we will be instituting a price raise on some BattleTech SKU’s effective 5/1/2011. Rather than an across the board raise, we are limiting the raises to those SKU’s most in need of adjustment.
We will be raising the MSRP on six BattleTech Clamshell Sets and 146 BattleTech Blister Pack SKU’s.
The effected SKU’s are listed on the attached Excel Spreadsheet.
We are now reviewing our Fantasy lines and may have another limited increase there in May.

Current prices will be honored through end of business on Friday April 29th.

Mike Noe"

Looks like I have to clear my shopping cart before the end of April!

It is a real shame too.  I don't get my bounus till  end of month.   I Had planed do do some shoping   but at these new prices......Well I will at lest be avoiding the ones with the price hikes.   Just not willing to keep paying more and more for minis.    The good news is they are not raising the cost of everything.

That said these new prices tell me they have to look to something else.  CAV mini prices going down or stable battlemech prices going up.  At some point it is just to much for one game peice.

[JadeHellbringer]

I go away for a year and you are still slinging  :-X at least I now know the world is well....  ;D ;D ;D

I'll be here to ban cockroaches after the apocalypse, good sir.

Good to have you back, by the way :)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Fortunately, I either already own or am not interested in getting anything on that list.

But these price hikes are becoming annoying (not that it's IWM's fault that the raw materials and business costs keep going up).

[General308]

Fortunately, I either already own or am not interested in getting anything on that list.

But these price hikes are becoming annoying (not that it's IWM's fault that the raw materials and business costs keep going up).

These price hikes are anoying and you are right it isn't there fault.  But at some point a prodouct reaches a point were it just cost to much.  Minis are very close to that point now

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah, I refuse to pay more than $13-14 for a mini, so some of the bigger ones are being priced out of my range now.  Likewise, I don't want to pay 10 bucks for a small mini like the Solitaire.

[Stingray]

These price hikes are anoying and you are right it isn't there fault.  But at some point a prodouct reaches a point were it just cost to much.  Minis are very close to that point now

To a point yes.... but a mini is still the cost of what... 2 or 3 drinks at the bar which are downed in one night to never (hopefully) be seen again.

I do agree the cost of miniature games is NOT helping. Video games have stayed pretty consistent (new wise), and with things like Steam allowing you to buy an older (but awesome) game for $5-$15 its not helping at all.

Honestly I would really like to see alongside these price hikes IWMs start kicking up quality control... its one area they have a bit better control of. Also has anyone in the gaming industry started looking at other alloy/metals to try in make things cheaper or is it a "stuck in our ways" sort of deal?

[sounguru]

There are other options but the start up cost is high or as you put it they are stuck in their ways.

[General308]

To a point yes.... but a mini is still the cost of what... 2 or 3 drinks at the bar which are downed in one night to never (hopefully) be seen again.

I do agree the cost of miniature games is NOT helping. Video games have stayed pretty consistent (new wise), and with things like Steam allowing you to buy an older (but awesome) game for $5-$15 its not helping at all.

Honestly I would really like to see alongside these price hikes IWMs start kicking up quality control... its one area they have a bit better control of. Also has anyone in the gaming industry started looking at other alloy/metals to try in make things cheaper or is it a "stuck in our ways" sort of deal?

Well Reaper started using with there old lead tin pewter a while back and have been expanding it.   Even my understanding moving the CAV line into it.   So at lest one industry player is looking at other alternitives.

At some point you have to ask will players keep paying the cost if they keep going up.  Again I understand IWM can't control the cost of the metal they use.   But maybe they can find something else.   Not saying there is any easy answers in this.

[Paul]

I'm not sure what all the complaints are about. $16 now was $10 in 1990. Looks like IWM's keeping up with inflation. Given rising material costs, it does mean they're working out waste.

Comparisons to other companies in a niche industry is always a matter of apples and melons. Just because company X can do it doesn't mean it's even sightly reasonable or fair to expect Y to follow suit. You can do that for industries with millions of customers.

Paul

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

In 1990 I wasn't buying minis.

I am buying minis right now, and the price is going up while my income isn't going up (actually, my income is substantially down since I've been unemployed since returning to school).

[sounguru]

I'm not sure what all the complaints are about. $16 now was $10 in 1990. Looks like IWM's keeping up with inflation. Given rising material costs, it does mean they're working out waste.

Comparisons to other companies in a niche industry is always a matter of apples and melons. Just because company X can do it doesn't mean it's even sightly reasonable or fair to expect Y to follow suit. You can do that for industries with millions of customers.

Paul

If the quality matched the price I wouldn't care what the price is. A ford pinto isn't worth anymore today than it was when it was new. ;D

I would pay more than we are now for a very well detailed and complex mini with a lot of options than some of the hunks of lead we see today from a lot of different companies. I would love to see a master line where QC, sculpting, and options are the main concern even if is made of plastic or some other material. I would happily pay $20+ a mini for something of that quality, but too pay $16 for something that is poorly sculpted, badly cast, or has no options is not worth it. I don't care if it is a mech or a dragon the beauty of the sculpt and what can be done with it to me is worth a higher price than what we see today for poor casting and sculpting.

Yes I fully understand that it cost money to make those types of minis in plastic or metal, but it takes money to make money and simply seeing a raise in price with no change in quality is a killer for any company no matter who they are.

We will not see a price drop from this and will actually see an increase in the days to come because world demand is not hit one iota by GW getting out. Sadly though if there is no increase in quality I will spend the few dollars I have on other things than something that is just okay or sub-par of the price in my book.

Well enough said off to look for more minis to buy....

[Jal Phoenix]

I'm not sure what all the complaints are about. $16 now was $10 in 1990. Looks like IWM's keeping up with inflation.

1990 was when I was buying the aforementioned $3.50 minis.  In fact, I think that year or the next was when the first $5 mini made its debut, the King Crab.  I was buying the lance packs for $15 in 1990, not individual minis for $10.  They didn't reach $10 until 2003 or so.

Then there is the quality Sounguru mentioned.  Every mini from 1990 is superior to most of today's minis.  I don't want to continue to buy Warlords, Titan IIs and Grand Crusaders at increased price points.  IWM hasn't produced a stinker for some time now, but they've come close on a few.  Their QC in general isn't always what it could be.  Scaling, bad mold lines and missing pieces continue to be common complaints. 

[General308]

I'm not sure what all the complaints are about. $16 now was $10 in 1990. Looks like IWM's keeping up with inflation. Given rising material costs, it does mean they're working out waste.

Comparisons to other companies in a niche industry is always a matter of apples and melons. Just because company X can do it doesn't mean it's even sightly reasonable or fair to expect Y to follow suit. You can do that for industries with millions of customers.

Paul

Because at some point a mini they just cost to much.  Min wage was what 5.15 an hour in 1990 so you could buy a mini for the cost of less than a hour work even if you made very little. Wages have not riced with inflation.  So that is apples to melons as you put it  Now me personally I make alot more money  than then but I just don't think a mini is worth the extra cost.

It may be apples and melons in your eyes but to most consumers it is not.  Because all a customer knows is that if Company x sold the product we could get it for less than company Y.

No matter what product and no matter how much it cost there is always a point were the customer says "I don't think so"   That is were the consumer has control to buy or not to.      High prices can do a lot to kill a niche industry if the consumers will no longer pay the price

[Paul]

I would pay more than we are now for a very well detailed and complex mini with a lot of options than some of the hunks of lead we see today from a lot of different companies.

I thought the multi-part minis of, say, the Marauder and Warhammer were generally reviled? If so, then it wouldn't make sense for any company to revisit that.

Yes I fully understand that it cost money to make those types of minis in plastic or metal, but it takes money to make money and simply seeing a raise in price with no change in quality is a killer for any company no matter who they are.

Great, I think that with that post, IWM will suddenly find the massive pile of cash they need to make that change. Because they're just sitting on it right now, stuffing their mattress with it.
They just didn't realize that reinvesting it all in to their business makes any sense. They're kinda dense like that, despite being in the mini business since the 80s. Sad, really.
Good thing we're here to tell them stuff they don't already know.

Paul

[Dread Moores]

I do agree the cost of miniature games is NOT helping. Video games have stayed pretty consistent (new wise), and with things like Steam allowing you to buy an older (but awesome) game for $5-$15 its not helping at all.

Not only old games. There's quite a bit of an indy game market growing on Steam in the $10 price range.

[00Dawg]

Min wage was what 5.15 an hour in 1990 so you could buy a mini for the cost of less than a hour work even if you made very little.

It was $4.25 in 1994.  Three hours of work at my uncle's electric company would buy two 'Mechs, although in all honesty if it wasn't going towards gas and the girlfriend, it was buying BT sourcebooks first.   ::)