Author Topic: MotW: Kingfisher  (Read 64221 times)

jymset

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MotW: Kingfisher
« on: 12 July 2015, 15:57:43 »

KINGFISHER 90-TON OMNIMECH
Technical Readout: 3058 Upgrade, pp. 188-189

Welcome to my first MotW in years! Disclaimer: this has turned out way longer than I had intended. I ramble on a lot, yet rambling may be the most engaging thing I can offer? I cannot hope to match the entertainment levels of the many rather excellent current MotW writers, so proceed at your own risk. Or scroll down to the bottom of the wall of text, where I've summarized it all for you in a few sentences! At any rate, individual configurations will be marked clearly.

Anyways! Take a walk down memory lane with me. No, not to 3025, not that far. Even us Clanners get to be grognards these days, so remember the glory days of the early post-invasion years. When Black Hawks ate BattleMasters and Mad Cats were the hot shit. 3055 had just arrived and its most impressive Clan units were the IIC versions of Warhammer and Marauder, both PPC-wielding, pulse-laser spewing monstrosities that would not die. Take a Mad Cat, trade some speed for even more longevity. Those things could lose both arms and side torsos and still charge at their enemy in a blaze of glory with some guns to spare.

Then the Refusal War happened, Clanners started using contractions, and 3058 came out. In relation of what was there before, it was arguably the most powerful line-up ever inflicted upon. Let us… oh, sod it, let’s remain focused on the Clan line-up: you had the Falcons spamming very powerful OmniMechs and most other Clans deploying 2nd liners focused on overkill with extreme prejudice. And somewhere in the middle was the humble Kingfisher. You know, the 90-ton OmniMech with 24 tons of pod space. At first glance, often overlooked.

Not so much when understood in its true role as an upsized Omni-Warhammer IIC.

But the Kingfisher wouldn’t be a 3058 ’Mech if its stats (or, in the case of the JF Omnis, at least their names) hadn’t been previously published somewhere else. Cause, you know, every last Clan ’Mech was. I’ll refrain from any commentary about the sometimes rather unpleasant public discontent when CGL did the same in more recent times. The Kingfisher, for one, had been previously published in The Black Thorns, which started with a Tukayyid scenario. This is important, because via that connection, the Kingfisher (along with Grendel and Shadow Cat) is a rare beast in having first seen the light of day in MechForce MECH Special Issue (I have 1992's "Retrofit" on hand). You know, the special edition of the very magazine published by the author of The Black Thorns. —Incidentally, there were also a handful of rather cool and fluffy ComStar BattleMechs which didn’t see the light of day.— So much for the trivia. Is it useful? Not sure, but to me, this sort of gaming history is the most interesting thing about our shared hobby, after BT construction, of course. And at any rate, it shows that the Kingfisher’s introduction happened before that of most of its 3058 contemporaries, both in-universe and real life.

Of course, nobody can really tell who is/was building the Kingfisher. It is one of those strange things being built on the Clan Homeworld, Strana Mechty. While production there has mainly been associated with Clans Wolf and Ghost Bear—the latter also being one of the two Clans fielding it on Tukayyid (alongside the Jaguars)—the “Strana Mechty ’Mech Production Facility” output has always been the generic units used by all Clans; meaning the Clan originals of the Wolf Dragoon BattleMechs. The “Beta” facility is/was there for the Kingfisher alone. So the Kingfisher is traditionally associated with the Bears, but is also relatively common among the homeworld Clans.

But back to the 3050s, where the Clan homeworlds were nowhere in sight. The Kingfisher arrived as a Bear/Jaguar-ish OmniMech at a mighty 90 tons and a pathetic 24 tons of pod space as the bottom line. Why? Because at 90 tons it greedily both wanted to move 4/6 and use a standard engine while doing so. Ask the Cyclops how well that worked out for its role as an “assault ’Mech”. It is Jade Hellbringer who so rightly points out “speed, armor, guns, pick two” and we know the Kingfisher certainly didn’t choose guns to achieve the above-average speed. Thankfully, it goes to town in the armour department by using the near-maximum amount of ferro-fibrous compound. No smart armor debate here, then. (While I’m not impressed by the threshold-less 13 armour on the CT rear, I do appreciate that it doesn’t overdo armouring there, like some other zombies; Awesome and Imp, I’m looking at you. But with the front coming up short at 44 points, I must point out that the unit is technically 1 point short both of maximum and yet another threshold.)

So yeah, the Kingfisher chooses armour and speed and the standard engine's added resilience on top of former feature exacerbates the negative, mass-devouring effects of the latter: as such, the standard engine very much defines the Kingfisher. At 24 tons of pod space, the OmniMech carries even less guns than the Gladiator, which surely must’ve been thrilling to Ghost Bear players. But the net result was the mother of all zombies in the Clan OmniMech lineup; back in the 1990s/3050s and really up until now, the Kingfisher was the only Omni tougher than a Daishi.

Of course, as I’ve continually stated in any past OmniMech MotW, configurations can make or break a canon OmniMech. Some mediocre chasses have been elevated to greatness by their configurations (point in case: Man O’ War) and others have been held back by lackluster configurations (Fire Falcon). Now while I certainly don’t think that the Kingfisher is a poor chassis, it better show off a wide span of good choices to make it interesting. Of note is that it actually comes with 17 fixed double heat sinks, three more than supported by the engine. The logical reaction to this—3 wasted tons on something that desperately needs more than 24 tons of weapons—would be of the kneejerk kind. But at such a low pod space, all of the Kingfisher’s configurations will extensively lean on energy weaponry with its good damage-to-weight ratio but high heat penalty. So these fixed heat sinks should merely be seen as the intrinsic pointer to a solution for getting the best out of the Kingfisher.
Spoilers: no, there aren’t any stupidly inefficient gauss boat configurations.

Spoilers, continued: most of the configurations are actually true gold, turning the Kingfisher into a winner.

So a quick recap before we delve in:
  • 90 tons
  • 4/6 speed
  • 24 tons of pod space
  • 17 fixed double heat sinks
  • standard engine, 278 points of ff armour
  • endo steel chassis
The latter is a given and its only importance is in its restriction of internal space. The Kingfisher puts a DHS each in the leg, never a bad thing, and one in the LT. The FF/ES combo is completely tucked away in the head and the side torsos—thanks to the lack of engine therein, you still have 4 slots in the right and 5 slots in the left for secondary systems, but the OmniMech will always deploy its big guns in the arms. As they are completely empty beyond their actuators, the Kingfisher has an astounding flexibility to carry even the most crit-inefficient equipment. And remember what I said about the Warhammer IIC? One of the extra nice features of the Kingfisher is that its 2 center torso slots are free for pod equipment. Apart from the B configuration, all Kingfishers carry respectable weaponry in there, ranging from dual ER medium lasers to a bloody ER PPC on the A and the X! So you know that this thing will come after you relentlessly until you put it down the hard way.

Kingfisher Prime: 2 large pulse lasers, 2 medium pulse lasers, ER small laser, LRM 10 (12), Streak SRM 6 (15). The Prime is a generalist through and through and essentially serves as a template for the OmniMech in general. It sets a standard by going with light energy and missile weaponry while remaining heat-efficient: it can pull off a running alpha strike, discounting the pop gun and the Streak launcher, which, if it hits, is always worth the additional heat. The Prime lacks a singular knock-out punch, but features enhanced accuracy on most weapons. And its damage output quickly adds up at medium ranges.
It isn't the most impressive assault ’Mech in the traditional sense, but it is a great generalist. Its guns suit the chassis' intrinsic features (it's one of the LPL that sits in the CT) and it is well-equipped to face a wide variety of foes. If I wasn't sure what my enemy was taking, it's the Prime I'd take more often than not.
The defensive attributes outweighing the offensive here, it should be the anvil of your force. Wade into the thick of things, use it as a very overt distraction, let it take the hits that some of your other units that may have more guns but will have less resilience don't have to.

Kingfisher A: LB-X AC/10 (20), ER PPC, medium pulse laser, ER medium laser, ER small laser, SRM 6 (15). Ah yeah. I got nothing. I'm sorry, this is one of maybe two configurations I really don't like and I've never used it (well, maybe once?) in all my years of BT. The LB-X/PPC combo is a truly great one...on a mobile ’Mech. Thor, Nobori-nin, heck even Hercules. They use the combo to have a single impressive punch, and a shotgun to follow up on it. With it, they can bully most equally mobile units just fine. But on this? It just feels so anemic and inefficient on this assault. And I'm really not impressed with the hodge podge of back up weapons, either. The Prime was versatile, this just feels messy. Sure, as mentioned in the chassis summary above, it is one of the two “undying ER PPC” configurations, but that's definitely not enough of a saving grace here.
Please, if any inclined reader would help me out finding a role for this one? But please, a better one than “hunting vehicles”—that'd just be undignified.

Kingfisher B: Ultra AC/20 (10), AMS (24), ER large laser, 4 ER medium lasers, ER small laser. The B configuration screams second line ’Mech in all the right ways. With that huge ultra AC and a very efficient damage/weight ratio back up of medium lasers, it evokes the do-or-die attitude of the second-liners that were featured in the same TRO. For its ability to churn out almost 70 damage at short-medium ranges relatively reliably—still on 24 tons of pod space  [legal]—this was the Kingfisher I first fielded time and again when I became acquainted with the ’Mech.
As I matured as a player, its shortcomings became painfully apparent: it lacks range and, in direct contradiction to what is the Kingfisher's greatest strength—mission endurance—it lacks the combat endurance to back it up. That Ultra AC gobbles up half of the Omni's pod space. Without ammunition. And it has enough ammo for five rounds of full fire. (It is my humble opinion that unlike other Ultras, the 20-class really isn't about choice. It's a shock and awe weapon and to get any worthwhile use out of it, when you line up a shot it should always be good enough to go full bore.)
After those five turns, you're really reduced to light ’Mech weaponry. And the fact that it's the only configuration that lacks weapons in the CT, instead having the AMS there totally reinforces that “oh, you might be going home... but you long stopped being useful” character that the B is often reduced to.
And yes, that range, or lack thereof. The B is actually a bracket firer. Except that its long range bracket is all of one solitary ER LL. 4/6 is definitely not quick enough to rely on a singular ER LL to reach beyond range 15 (or vice versa, a single ER LL is not enough long range firepower for such a large and relatively slow ’Mech)! Then again, who am I kidding? The Kodiak seems to do just fine...
Nonetheless, the B is a valid entry that I still appreciate. If your opponent knows you are going to bring a Kingfisher to the table, he knows it might be a B. And for those glorious five turns, it will bring a world of pain to absolutely anything that tries to face it.

Kingfisher C: 2 ER PPC, 4 ER medium lasers, 8 DHS. Obviously, it was this monster that I referenced when I referred to the Kingfisher as an Omni-Warhammer IIC. Dual peepers of the scary Clan variations? Check. Bevy of medium lasers? Check.
Now, the Kingfisher is 10 tons heavier than the Warhammer IIC. And it uses ER instead of pulse lasers, and even has one less. And no token SRMs. But this is where the C's other feature kicks in: It is the only configuration (barring its misguided clone, the H) to mount additional DHS. Despite having extremely high-intensity heat generating weapons, it is a true alpha striker, needing to take into account only movement heat. In its C incarnation, the Kingfisher will spew out 58 damage nigh-on every turn, 30 of which will hit you at long, all of which will hit you at medium ranges. And the peepers may just take off your head while at it.
Between the C's zombie-like resilience—the side torsos are reasonably crit-packed with DHS and the ’Mech obviously lacks any ammo—and the high rate of fire that has the Warhammer IIC beat, this is the go-to configuration against enemy BattleMechs.
So clearly, this configuration is where the money's at. Alas, it's also where the BV's at. Even under BV1, it was the most expensive of the lot, which only increases to an impressive 2,644 under BV2.
That said, which other, more recent BattleMech does this gem remind you of? Right. The Hellstar. The Kingfisher obviously has half the PPCs, but replaces the missing ones with a brace of ER ML each. So the net damage is very similar, at the expense of range and head-capping capability. You lose roughly a ton of armor, but you gain a standard engine. Obviously, the Hellstar is the more overtly scary package, but the Kingfisher C costs 440 points less, almost 15%. Unlike most other configurations, may no longer be a budget assault, but I feel it is well worth the investment.

Kingfisher D: Ultra AC/10 (20), 3 ER large lasers. When I was young and dumb, there was one reason and one reason only to take the Kingfisher D: BV. BV1, to be precise, because at 1,966, it had that magical “1” at the beginning, definitely making it not only equal, but tangibly cheaper than a lot of the heavies at the Clans' disposal.
I never bought into the positive judgment that very many of my peers bestowed on it: relatively concentrated damage and huge range. To me, it ran too hot, wasn't flexible enough, and... right next to it in the same TRO, I had another ’Mech with equal mass and exactly double the ER LL! If I wanted inefficient long range laser spam, the Supernova would always be my go-to unit.
But now that BV2 pushes it up to 2,364—beyond the A's 2,261 and into the vicinity of the great Prime—the above arguments really need to stick to make the D worthwhile.
I still don't think it's the chassis' best use. But the whole long range argument starts making sense a bit more if one is stuck with the Kingfisher in the long run and explicitly wants something that works at range. No other config does this job as well. But you tell me. It's the one configuration where I have the sinking feeling that my own intuition goes against the general common sense. I genuinely think it's better than the A (what, BV itself isn't broken on the Kingfisher? :D), but I'd still love for you to tellme how good it really is.

Kingfisher E: Large pulse laser, 4 medium pulse lasers, ATM 12 (15). The E configuration is one of the second generation Kingfishers, along with the H. It really shows what you can do when matching the advanced missiles to the strengths of a given chassis.
This Kingfisher starts out strong—it copies the best thing about the Prime: pulse lasers. Lots of them. With one large and four mediums, it lacks range, but gains respectable damage output at great accuracy.
Then the configuration is topped off with the largest ATM launcher and enough ammo to flexibly field it. With the missiles, this thing joins the B's average 68 damage at close ranges. Its heat balances out exactly, so unlike with the earlier model, there's no need to bracket here. The ATM launcher has more flexibility and both greater range and endurance. Its major drawback compared to the B's boomstick is obviously the lack of concentrated punch. Once the configurations are out of ammo, they both have four medium and one large laser, but the E has pulse models. And its main ammunition weapon will last three times longer in the first place, meaning it won't run into the mission-vs-combat endurance issues that the B has.
Alas, with its short range, the E almost exacerbates the issues the B and H may have in lacking long-range weaponry, and the ER ATM ammo, though nice to have, isn't enough to make up for it. Simply having such a nice lineup of pulsers does make it an easy ride to master, and it needs to be a bully. This is great for catching fast, light units trying to zip past your battle line and misjudging their range. It's great for beating up anything that's too slow to get away.
And boy, is it good at it, but ultimately it lacks the versatility of the Prime. If you know what you're facing and you know how you'll put the E to use, I contend it may be the best configuration of the lot. If you're unsure of either of that, always take the Prime instead.

Kingfisher F: HAG 30 (12), ER large laser, 3 ER medium lasers, ECM. This is the first out of the current Record Sheets' new configurations that bring the Kingfisher into the Jihad and beyond. Now, obviously the Kingfisher isn't currently being produced by any Council-of-Six Clans, but at least in the starting years of the Jihad, those factions still had access to some Home Worlds goodies. Beyond that, the Kingfishers in Ghost Bear/Rasalhague Dominion stockpiles have to labor on until they drop.
So, remembering that TRO 3050U's Gladiator entry, set in 3070, states that HAG weapons “have become so popular among younger warriors that the Ghost Bears are scrambling to negotiate for more HAGs from Diamond Shark merchants to meet demand”, I tasked Jellico with devising an appropriate configuration for the Kingfisher. I didn't believe he could do it, having fallen short of something satisfactory myself.
I must have been overthinking things.
The Kingfisher F is picture book simplicity. It all comes back to the fact that vanilla ER lasers are among the most efficient weapons one could choose. And the chassis already has the heat sinks for it. Though there is a reminiscence of the B configuration, the differences are obvious. This loadout lacks a single solid punch. But while it also plays best in the medium range bracket, the F has no problems with engaging at long to very long ranges if need be. 12 shots for the HAG are obviously best used frugally, but the option is always there to go for that range 24 shot.
Now, I've mentioned BV before. What undoubtedly is a drawback of the Kingfisher F is the HAG's extremely high intrinsic BV—IMO too high. At 2,568, is it easy to justify taking the F into a BV-balanced game? When the Prime is 2,401 and even the sublime E is 2,443? Alas, I'm not at all sure the answer to that is “yes”...

Kingfisher H: 2 heavy large lasers, 4 ER medium lasers, targeting computer, 9 DHS. Posting this article gives me the luxury of openly spouting my opinions. Well, I really, really don't like this configuration. As mentioned above, this one precedes the F and X, coming along with all the 2nd wave Hs and all “E”/ATM configurations in.
Here's a super short summary of my opinion of H configurations foolishly mimicking established ones (instead of going their own, original route): Look, in some rare occasions, dropping ER LL for HLL kinda, sorta works. The Thor H works because the Thor D already had a targeting computer and some tertiary stuff that could be dropped for more heat sinks. And the Thor lacked a brawler configuration up until then, anyways. The Ryoken H otoh, doesn't work, because its base, the Prime, lacked either attributes. And then going on to replace ER PPCs with HLL? Goodness. Well, it actually sorta works for the Puma, but only because dual ER PPCs completely overburdened its chassis. The Kingfisher...
Nonono. You're spending most of the mass savings vs the C configuration mounting the targeting computer that you need to make up for the shocking accuracy issues of the HLL. Despite an additional DHS compared to its parent design, heat management that is so vital (see above) is now shot. And with its primary and secondary weaponry sharing exactly the same range, bracketing doesn't work intuitively. You really shouldn't have to bracket. Again, see above!
It's a piss poor alternative to the C and its BV at 2,525 adds insult to injury. When you're only playing the mid ranges already, and that's what you want, take the B, warts and all, at 2,472.
And in ways of postscript: we've covered the good (= nothing), the bad (= everything), so here's the ugly: thanks to the large crit size of the lasers and the limited space of the torsos, the left arm medium laser had to be moved into the left torso. That's...just...no! #P

Kingfisher X: ER PPC, 2 ER medium pulse lasers, 3 improved heavy medium lasers, LRM 15/Artemis V (16), targeting computer, ECM. And this is what happens when you let Jellico loose to do what he really wants to do. The Ghost Bear doing his Ghost Bear thing! The good man didn't really comment on this devilish concoction beyond pointing out that every single weapon on the ’Mech has at least a -1 bonus to hit. Nice touches are grouping the iHML LA and, as previously pointed out, putting the ER PPC into the CT. There are varied bracketing options here, catering nicely to all ranges, and the pure amount of damage the X can do is intimidating. Like the F, the X carries an ECM, to really put the pain to the Wobblies' networks. This would have been an ultimate monster to face in the Jihad.
It is the only advanced/experimental configuration, and it's the most expensive of the lot. Use it if you are allowed to, can afford it and if you like the Ghost Bear style! Fun trivia: which 3145 NTNU Omni do you think is this guy's spiritual sibling?

This marks the end of my rambling review! If you just scrolled past the wall of text to get to the bottom line, here it is:
  • The Kingfisher is a great anvil or anchor to your battle line. It's tougher than most everything else, meaning it simply won't die in any hurry and it won't fall behind as badly as some other assaults.
  • The Kingfisher is a budget assault. While not actively cheap, there are several configurations that will yield good and/or flexible firepower at BVs that will otherwise get you a heavy.
  • If prepared to fork out the corresponding BV, a few configurations are plain scary by any standard. Just by picking the right configuration, you can face the big boys as if you were one yourself.

All that remains is your input below, and for Scotty to post his corresponding ASMotW tomorrow. Thanks for reading!
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Kojak

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #1 on: 12 July 2015, 18:18:32 »
A great review of probably one of my all-time Top Ten favorite 'Mechs. I've been getting a lot of use out of the X since its debut, I can't speak highly enough of it. The fact that it has that ER PPC in the CT, able to spew hot particle death at your opponents until they finally dedicate the firepower to pound the 'Fisher to scrap, really can't be understated in its usefulness. I've seen so many games turn on redirecting just enough of an opponent's firepower onto the "wrong" target, and the X excels in this regard.


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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #2 on: 12 July 2015, 18:25:14 »
I don't use the Kingfisher much...but I do remember one battle in the FGC where I was dragooned into playing a Jaguar raider. I selected a fairly typical Jaguarish star and the Ghost Bear Khan at the time dropped three elite Kingfishers on me. While all three Kingfishers were eventually destroyed, the survivor of the Battle star I used was a one armed Nova that probably would've collapsed if Megamek could simulate a stiff breeze.

sillybrit

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #3 on: 12 July 2015, 19:12:00 »
Way back I used to prefer SFE designs, due to losing what seemed like way too many XLFE Mechs due to side torso destruction. Lightweight designs that relied on speed to avoid being hit in the first place were something of an exception, but overall XLFEs made me uncomfortable, even when the Clans arrived with their more survivable version. That all made the Kingfisher a very interesting Omni for me when I first saw it in the Black Thorns scenario book. It was 5t overweight for my preferences, but at least had the good grace to invest in near maximum armor. For me it wasn't an assault, it was a slighty inefficient SFE heavy, with the Clan technology more than making up for being a little overweight when compared to 3025 heavies and assaults.

That's how I saw the Kingfisher, so that's why the A made sense to me. For me it was a generalist heavy - able to headcap, hole punch, crit seek at long range, etc all by itself - that I would use to anchor a line or support more specialist designs. Later rules changes added Inferno capability and flak vs ASFs (originally flak was only against VTOLs and AirMechs), while making them weaker vs PBIs (assuming I didn't use Infernos on them), but I still liked it as a generalist.

The Prime and C were also good, especially the energy boat C in campaigns or when I was transporting Elementals... which was a lot of the time! The latter was almost my only incentive to field the D, as it could still shoot two of the ERLLs and the UAC while carrying battle armor, and thus allowed me avoiding fielding just Cs with my Elementals. Overall though the UAC frustrated me and I would have much preferred a LBX for the cluster option. Maybe I just have bad luck with UACs jamming, but I've never really liked them. Sans Elementals, for me the UAC10 was just a replacement for an ERLL in the turns when I wanted to cool down or when I desperately needed the extra firepower. The B was somewhat different for me, as even in single-shot mode a 20-point hit is still a 20-point hit, and most opponents feared the possibility of a double-tap, so on the right map a Kingfisher B occasionally snuck its way into my lineup.

I don't really have the experience with E and upwards, although given my druthers I wouldn't touch the H with a bargepole. I view HLs less favorably than UACs, especially on a platform that's not got the mobility to be a reliable backstabber.


Sweet write-up.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #4 on: 12 July 2015, 19:34:57 »
One wonders if the Kingfisher was deliberately made less "Offensive" to contrast many of the other clan machines, IC time and all that.
Still, if it works, it works.
Neat article, I, for one, have no qualms about reading some rambling, or I'd just skim over sarna instead of reading articles in the first place.
Anecdotes, tactical advice, backgroundinfo, that's what I'm here for after all.
It's impressive some configurations coax some impressive firepower out of the existing shell.
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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #5 on: 12 July 2015, 20:19:12 »
Kingfisher is a fun design to spring on someone . . . we need a supercharger config!

The Prime is what you put that MechWarrior fresh from the sibko who does not quite have the skills of his starmates in.  More accurate to offset his lesser skills.

The A?  Wish it was a ERLL rather than a ERPPC since I think the laser is a superior weapon.  I think the fault here lies in having two critseeker weapons, that SRM would better serve as a 3rd ton of LBX and maybe more mixed lasers.  It is also the anvil for a star that is 5/8 speed against someone you do not plan to follow dueling rules against.  Let everyone else go fast, using ErPPC, ErLL and UAC/10 to punch holes in other peoples' armor, the Kingfisher A will come behind to sweep the cripples aside.

The B is when as a Clanner you have to fight the IS players on a postage stamp (aka 2x2 maps) for that wonderful bubble of doom on a SFE monster.  While it may not always work, it pitches the fight into something more closely run.

A D is still very solid against Inner Sphere assault which will not be able to match the range and for most can barely grind forward faster than you can fall back.  Keep walking into my ERLLs while you struggle to get LRMs, GRs and ERPPCs.  Then you can also exploit the better range brackets of those ERLL and when its closer quarters you can trade off to the AC.

The problem I have with the E is that it is like the supposed Night Gyr 'E' which should really be called the P . . . for Pulse.

With all that said, I really want to see a supercharger for the fun panic you could cause in the spheroids as the zombie races into their midst.  Maybe the B, drop a ton of AMS ammo for UAC ammo and some lasers for the SupC.  For the Drac forces possibly facing that they would need to be issued brown pants for uniforms.
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cold1

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #6 on: 12 July 2015, 21:23:00 »
We really didn't have an otW article on this?

This thing is awesome!  I'm about as big a fan of clan assaults as a player in this game can be.  I prefer the 4/6 assaults and pocket assaults over just about anything else.  The Kingfisher is the bully of the class.  It has good configurations (I even like the H).  It has configurations designed for different scenarios.  Awesome mech!

As much as I love the more guns than sense approach on Blood Asps, Night Gyrs, and Nova Cats, those mech ALWAYS roll with at least one Kingfisher.  Two 'Fishers make a mean anchor with 3 of them (or an Executioner).  If there's no zell involved some of the long range versions of the gunboats with the in your fAce 'Fishers can be devastating.

The Bears have the toughest clan assault and the most mobile clan assault... CHEATERS!!!!!

I second the SC variant becoming real.  Be nice for the Bears to have one that could run and with the Executioner.


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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #7 on: 12 July 2015, 22:02:18 »
I've always had a place for this guy (usually D, E, H, or Prime)  I'll detail those haha

Prime is obvious and jymset hits the note perfectly.  You can't beat pair LPL's with appropriate backup weapons and all that armor and standard engine.  Good stuff

D - Rage got me started on this guy under BV one where I'd field the Savage Coyote B (1850's BV1,) Kingfisher D (1950's BV) and Blood Asp C(?) (1950's BV) and then two cheapish mediums (Stormcrow C and uh, doesn't matter)  That star (or ones where I subbed the Blood Asp out for a Warhammer IIC *insert flavor*) would under-BV the Fan Grand Council opponents who wanted to bring Warhawks Prime's and C's and Dire Wolve A's etc (aka super high BV units) The cheapness, ruggedness, and firepower of all the units really helped in the duels.  I'd pair the Kingfisher (or Warhammer) up against the "best" opponent with the idea that it would wear them down.  Might not beat them (but it did happen with enough regularity to impress me,) but when that Warhawk or Dire Wolf finished it off, it was beat up and one of my others units would finish it off.

BV2?  I don't know as much as it's price did go up, but I've used it enough to know the ropes with it and would still be comfortable taking it.

E - great combination of pulse and ATM's.  I played this one and the H the same way.  Run every turn towards the dueling opponents firing everything you have and force that opponent to deal with you.  You get close enough those HE ATM's are not fun... for your opponent!

H - I used this and Warhammer IIC 3's a lot when I was playing as Blood Spirits and played them both the same way, mad dog rushing at the opponent as I tried to get into optimal range.  The HLL's are "nice enough" though the pulse batteries on both doe the heavy lifting.  it was cheapish IIRC under BV1 and was worth taking against someone who didn't see it coming.

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #8 on: 12 July 2015, 22:35:28 »
It's surprising we see so many Ghost Bears piloting Kodiak's when the Kingfisher exist but that's only because the rule of cool is followed by all in fiction.     
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #9 on: 12 July 2015, 22:36:53 »
I had SUCH disrespect for this mech when I first saw it.
That 360-SFE reminded me so much of the Cyclops & even the Banshee.
Just too fast & needed to be 3/5 or XL,  or so I thought.

Then I faced one down in my Warhawk & it just about kicked my arse. 
Yeah, I won, but man was my armor trashed, that thing would JUST NOT DIE!
I learned to respect it that day & it has been a favorite ever since.
The Kingfisher & D-Wolf are my Go-to Assaults in any situation where I don't need a Garg to keep up with the Heavies.

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #10 on: 12 July 2015, 23:16:13 »
Fantastic write-up, it's refreshing to read one of your articles once more!!

I'll second what people are saying about the X. Tried it in a campaign, it smashed stupid amounts of face. Never saw the parallel between it and the new Executioner, but I'm definitely seeing it now. I'm ashamed to say that I ignored that variant (mostly) in favor of the "I", but that'll have to change.

Definitely a fun unit to run, unless you lose it within a turn or two to a headcapper of course.
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #11 on: 12 July 2015, 23:50:51 »
This is an assault mech I have always enjoyed using when given the opportunity. With regards to the H Variant, I wonder if it would have been better if the weapons loadout had two Large Pulse Lasers and four Heavy Medium Lasers instead...
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #12 on: 12 July 2015, 23:53:46 »
Just a question - is the art, and the mini, meant to depict the A config? Is there a possible reason why the mini wasn't the Prime variant (eg. the version published in the original source was the A for some reason)?

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #13 on: 13 July 2015, 00:10:30 »
Another one of those mechs I had read about bypassed and then looked at again later.

I'm impressed: an that's really all I have to say. It's got some good configs (I've used the C and D) it's a solid zombie and it's from my faction.

Lovely mech for a second line unit, and a nice machine to balance out your front line Cluster.

Nice write up

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #14 on: 13 July 2015, 00:29:07 »
A great article :)  Well written and funny and there's nothing wrong with a good ramble!  I kind of see the A as a different flavour of the Prime, its a generalist and anchor unit in a similar vein to the Prime and F which in my head was an A that got damaged and then retrofitted and the config stuck.
I always took the X as more of a trials unit, basically a tech demonstrator to try out the ER pulsers and IHL's as well as the Artemis V system and again the Bears looked at the config, found it good and stuck with it. 

Its great to see the methodoligy that went into the design of this mech, sure you can overlook it because pfft 24 tonnes of pod space, but its better protected than anything in the Clan inventory save the Dire Wolf and those 24 tonnes are used for the most part very very cleverly, there's no donkey configs with UAC/LB-2/5's sticking out of it or anything.  Its very efficient with what its got.

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #15 on: 13 July 2015, 01:17:04 »
Dunno . . . you could sort of do a Nova Cat C version with this (light on the ACs) . . . 2 Large Pulse, ER Large and a LB-5X with a single ton . . . or you reverse the amount of the Larges and you have 2 tons more to play with for equipment.
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #16 on: 13 July 2015, 02:42:15 »
Good article, though I do think you're underestimating the A a little, it's another generalist in my opinion, though a different flavour from the Prime. But that's just an opinion, the breakdown of the configurations is pretty insightful.

That being said I'm a latecomer to the Kingfisher, though after being forced to use Field Manual RATs I've come to find a place for all of them to one degree or another, there's something to be said for that downright monsterous survivability the armour and engine provide, even if you are reduced to kicking the enemy's kneecaps off. ;D

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #17 on: 13 July 2015, 09:46:50 »
Although this is fluffed as being a Bear 'Mech, I think the Blood Spirits and Steel Vipers would've liked it as well, since both Clans were known to favour 'Mechs with standard engines.

Has anything more been made of the possible connection between this 'Mech and the Pulverizer? 

And looking at it alongside the first-generation Omnis from Era Digest:  Golden Century, it does seem like it belongs with that group.

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #18 on: 13 July 2015, 09:55:30 »
I've always loved the brutal simplicity of an assault 'Mech that does.  Not.  Die.  It's one of the reasons I love the AWS-8Q so much.  The Kingfisher was heavily used by my two favorite Clans, the Bears and Spirits, so I took some time to really get to know the chassis back in the day.  I had such a healthy respect for it that I used to field it in pretty good numbers against opponents in the FGC; the Charlie variant with its double-peepers and lasers was one of my favorite duelists to take into Trials of Possession.

My only regret is that I've never actually bought a miniature for it.  I need at least one for my 1st Bear Guards force, for sure.
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #19 on: 13 July 2015, 10:27:42 »
The miniature is, unfortunate.  Second on my list of needs a resculpt behind the Night Gyr.

Considering the Adders based the Blood Asp off the Kingfisher... I feel it's appropriate for my Adders to have them... always. 


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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #20 on: 13 July 2015, 10:30:40 »
The miniature is, unfortunate.  Second on my list of needs a resculpt behind the Night Gyr.

I've seen worse.  The Verfolger for instance, or the Anvil (which isn't that bad, just impossible to repose.
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #21 on: 13 July 2015, 13:49:00 »
With all that said, I really want to see a supercharger for the fun panic you could cause in the spheroids as the zombie races into their midst.  Maybe the B, drop a ton of AMS ammo for UAC ammo and some lasers for the SupC.  For the Drac forces possibly facing that they would need to be issued brown pants for uniforms.

Ah, but the only factor that stipulates supercharger mass is the weight of the engine. And the Kingfisher's engine is a hulking monstrosity. So you'd have to invest 3.5 tons. In your example, that would mean... .5 tons out of AMS (its ammo goes to the UAC/20), and 3 ERML. I'm not sure that 1 ERSL, 1 ERML, 1 ERLL and 1 UAC/20 is enough to make this really scary?

Yeah, I'd not recommend a SC Kingfisher. And this is factually coming from the SC's most rabid advocate.
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #22 on: 13 July 2015, 13:50:54 »
I'll second what people are saying about the X. Tried it in a campaign, it smashed stupid amounts of face. Never saw the parallel between it and the new Executioner, but I'm definitely seeing it now. I'm ashamed to say that I ignored that variant (mostly) in favor of the "I", but that'll have to change.

:o I'd actually been thinking of the Mad Dog, but now that you've said it... you're absolutely right, of course! O0
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #23 on: 13 July 2015, 14:39:20 »
Yeah, I played with it in HMP- largest SC I have seen!

Forget dropping the AMS (move it for the SC) but drop off the cERLL (odd saying that as a huge fan of the weapon) and ERSL, put in another ERML or maybe a HML for the punch- or that other ton of ammo.  Actually, the long range can be compensated for . . . a handheld LRM weapon?

I actually like it better on a Nova C rip off- LPL, ERLL, LB-5X and some lighter lasers.
« Last Edit: 13 July 2015, 14:53:00 by Colt Ward »
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #24 on: 13 July 2015, 15:17:15 »
Was it the Tukayyid SB that had the in-universe IS analyst theorizing that one of the values of the Kingfisher was how it fit into the Clan bidding process.

A prospective Clan officer could bid away a Kingfisher.. he doesn't lose as much firepower as if he had cut a Masakari or Daishi but the bottom line is still that he cut an Assault omni from the bid.  If his competition did not also have a Kingfisher to bid away, matching the bid would cause a deeper hurt to his proposed force.

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #25 on: 13 July 2015, 15:30:08 »
Though if both sides get rid of one assault, both sides are one assault short.
Losing less because you had less doesn't suddenly put you in front.  ;)
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #26 on: 13 July 2015, 15:34:22 »
Though if both sides get rid of one assault, both sides are one assault short.
Losing less because you had less doesn't suddenly put you in front.  ;)

It does in the Clan bidding process.  If you brought a Kingfisher along specifically to bid away, you weren't counting on it anyway, and suddenly your opponent is down a much more dangerous 'Mech than you are.

Clan bidding calculus is not as simple as people make it out to be.
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #27 on: 13 July 2015, 15:38:57 »
Though if both sides get rid of one assault, both sides are one assault short.
Losing less because you had less doesn't suddenly put you in front.  ;)


That's how the Clan bidding process works.  Or is supposed to.  Or used to.  Whatever, I'm a grognard.  Officer A competes against Officer B from the same Clan, probably the same Cluster, for the honor of leading a Trial.  If A cuts a Kingfisher, B has to either cut an Assault as well or forfeit the honor of leading the assault to A.  And if B's assaults are all Masakaris/Daishis/the like, he might be close enough to the cutdown that he can't afford to do so when A can because the mech in question is a Kingfisher with only 24 tons of offense.

Edit: Nijad.
« Last Edit: 13 July 2015, 15:41:58 by Tai Dai Cultist »

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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #28 on: 13 July 2015, 16:14:42 »
On the flipside . . . he could put forward a bid dropping a heavy mech but it has to be deemed a 'lower' bid of forces.  Question is does the Oathmaster for the bidding buy that a say Summoner has more value for the Trial than a Kingfisher.  The Summoner may not, but if they also threw out a point or two of Elementals than it gets a lot more speculative.
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Re: MotW: Kingfisher
« Reply #29 on: 13 July 2015, 16:21:44 »
I doubt the Kingfisher was actually designed to be bid away as the SB observer speculated.  However its qualities does give it the ability to be (ab)used in novel ways during bidding.  I don't think there's any fluff or lore explaining an in-universe analogue to BV.  A Kingfisher might be "worth" a lighter omni, but if the rules of the bid only recognize factors like omni vs battlemech, weight class, and frontline/second line, a bidder can use wiggle room to get some bang for the buck in spending a Kingfisher to get the other guy to spend something scarier (as Scotty put it).  Even the mere threat of such a move is a tool in of itself.

 

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