Author Topic: MotW: Centurion  (Read 29459 times)

JadeHellbringer

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MotW: Centurion
« on: 15 October 2016, 09:51:37 »




(NOTE: Edits are being made to this article, so if you see weirdness that's probably why. Apologies for the inconvenience!)


When we discuss some of Battletech’s true timeless designs- Mechs so popular that they virtually define a unit style- what do we think of? For LRM support, the Archer is usually what people think of first, maybe a Cyclops as a command unit, or a Locust for scouting. Trooper designs have a few solid entries, of course, but perhaps none fit the bill better than the Centurion, a design that has embodied the frontline soldier aspect of Battlemech warfare since the fall of the Star League. While perhaps not the most agile, most powerful, or toughest design, it is a solid fighter at any range that allows one to meet any task with ease, from its earliest days to the cutting-edge versions now fighting in 3150.

We’ll start by looking at the machine’s history. Corean designed the Centurion as a sort of bodyguard for their Trebuchet fire support Mech, but it ended up being versatile enough to do just about anything one could ask. The Mech was first built in the last few years before the First Succession War, making it a rare example of a machine that came about as humanity declined into madness, yet still managed to be produced in large numbers. That lasted only until the destruction of the Ramen II assembly line in 2845, but Corean rebounded by building a new line on the Federated Suns capital world of New Avalon a century and a half later- the machine, despite its being built in Marik space originally, was very popular with the AFFS, so this move made a lot of sense.

Bringing in a standard-model CN9-A for review, we find a fairly basic machine in most respects. At 50 tons, it’s average in weight, like many of its contemporaries in the trooper class. A 200-class engine moves the machine at a somewhat disappointing 4/6, with no jump jets to compensate like the Panther or Enforcer can boast. That can be a problem in a rapid-moving battle, but as a trooper design the Centurion really isn’t intended for that kind of job anyway- its role is steady advances or holding its own ground, and as such mobility isn’t a high priority.

What IS a priority is being able to take the beating that will be thrown at it, and with eight and a half tons of armor a Centurion isn’t an easy Mech to put down. The spread is about what you would expect, with no big surprises in coverage. Since the machine can’t effectively dodge most fire, it has to be able to absorb it better, and the Centurion, while not exactly putting the Atlas out of business in terms of armor, won’t go down from a couple of quick hits generally.

Going back at the target is a pretty handy array of weaponry for a Mech this size. The primary weapon, mounted in the right arm as so many Mechs of Battletech’s early days were, is a big Luxor AC-10, a weapon that probably isn’t the best choice. The brutal power of the cannon is undeniable, but its size is a solid fifth of the unit without counting its two-ton ammo bin. That’s a big gun, and one can’t help but wonder if a PPC and some heat sinks wouldn’t have been a better choice. Regardless, the gun packs a hefty punch at modest ranges, and while one is merely a concern a lance of these machines can be a sobering sight. However, the Luxor has a major problem with jamming (in fluff, obviously, in game this isn’t an issue), which made the design somewhat unpopular with technicians and Mechwarriors alike.

Backing the cannon is a chest-mounted Luxor LRM-10, again supplied with two tons of ammo. This gives the Centurion a solid long-range bombardment option as it closes to cannon distances, and with plenty of ammo one can afford to throw shots downrange even at questionable numbers (In later eras, the second ton of ammo is also a fine choice for alternate ammo types such as Thunder rounds!). As so many units do, the Centurion backs up the two main weapons with a pair of medium lasers, both in the center torso. One is faced forward and the other backward, to provide better protection against fast units getting behind the Centurion, but one can’t help but wish to turn that laser forward for better firepower and trust the Centurion’s lancemates to keep its rear safe- or failing that, the Luxor cannon being brought about at the harassing enemy. Regardless, the Centurion has a weapon for every range, and earns its place as a true jack of all trades.

The problems with the cannon resulted in many field modifications to Centurions, but the first named new model was the CN9-AH, which pulled the gun and the two medium lasers in favor of an AC-20. While the firepower obviously goes up in terms of cannon power, the loss of range is disappointing, and the author suggests sticking to the Hunchback for your assault-grade autocannon needs. The AH isn’t a bad machine, but the differences between the LRM and cannon’s ranges mean that it’s sometimes difficult to do much more than one-weapon attacks. Support this machine well.

Our next variant is the CN9-AL, another attempt to remove the wretched autocannon. This time however, the result was an over-under combination of a large laser and small laser, with six more heat sinks added to help cover the added heat. Two and a half tons of armor also were tacked on to an already tough machine, making for a really fun Mech. The laser’s range isn’t that different from the old Luxor, and only loses two points of damage per shot in exchange for being free of ammo concerns.  While the author wouldn’t mind dropping half a ton of the new armor to bump that small laser to a medium, the CN9-AL is a very fun machine to use, and should be strongly considered over the original for raiding and other operations that might make cannon reloads difficult to come by.

By the time the Clans invaded, the Centurion had become one of the most important Mechs in the AFFS/AFFC arsenal, and so it was no surprise that recovered Star League technology was quickly added to the Mech in the hopes of making it an even more useful design than ever. The CN-9D that resulted first pulled off the autocannon yet again to add a Mydron LB-10X instead, a simply fantastic upgrade in terms of both reliability and utility. The engine bumped to a 300XL, an upgrade that may or may not be viewed as acceptable depending on preferences- while it does make for a more fragile machine than the old version, the boost in speed to 6/9 is certainly nice! What had been a stately-paced trooper suddenly can kick its heels up and keep pace on the ground with the old bug Mechs and the like, and suddenly the Centurion can is capable of flanking an enemy rather than finding itself on the wrong end of a flanking maneuver! Endo-steel internal structure was used in this as well to keep weight down, making for a difficult field upgrade if one wishes to improve their old machine but no problem for the New Avalon production site.

A brief sidenote is the CN-9D3, an NAIS testbed machine equipped with triple-strength myomer. This Mech can’t really gain enough heat to reliably use the myomer, so outside of the testbed scenario this isn’t a great machine- you’re best leaving it as a standard 9D and using that myomer on something that can really utilize it, like a Griffin.

A halfway measure came along in the late 3050s with the CN10-B, keeping the Endo-Steel and LB-10X of the 9D but sticking with the original 200-class fusion engine and 4/6 movement. The Mech gains Artemis to its LRM rack and one of the lasers gains pulse technology as well, but one can’t help but like this if you need a low-cost anti-armor machine that can take a bit of a pounding. LB-10X is a great way to park enemy vehicles and lawn-dart aircraft, and this makes for a great way to get one in the field on the cheap.

As the FedCom Civil War began to swirl, yet another variant debuted, this time using the 300XL of the 9-D to keep the 6/9 speed. This version, the D5, took the idea of the fast-Centurion even further though with the inclusion of MASC, allowing for brief Locust-like bursts of speed. The weaponry is completely overhauled, with paired ER medium lasers in the chest providing backup to a mighty Rotary AC-5 in the right arm. Three tons of ammo provide a standard combat load for the cannon, while CASE keeps an explosion from wiping out the Mech in the event of a catastrophe (the XL engine, of course, means the Mech is still out of the fight). A targeting computer helps put the gun on-target, and a C3 Slave module means that the RAC is just the beginning of the target’s suffering. This is a REALLY fun Mech for jobs like headhunting, or for responding to threats along a defensive front- a brief burst of speed, and the CN9-D5 is on the scene to punish those who attempt to breach the line. The author strongly recommends this design for mobile operations, though the LRM of previous designs is missed for ranged attacks.

As the D5 marched off the New Avalon assembly lines, we also see the D3D enter service. Keeping the same engine/MASC as its cousin, the D3D also retains the LRM-10 of older versions, backed by an ER medium laser. The obligatory big-ballistic has become a Light Gauss Rifle, making for an excellent mobile sniper. A switch to ferro-fibrous armor also makes it a bit tougher than usual, never a bad thing. (NOTE: The MUL lists this variant as being from TRO:3050, but I’m having trouble finding it in anything- this info came from Megamek and Sarna, and any help in figuring out where it’s hidden would be appreciated)

Based on the D3D, the D4D drops the engine back down a notch to bump the LRM to a 15, with an Artemis system attached. Less speed, more missiles- if you feel that’s a good tradeoff, this design is for you. If not, it’s really the same basic idea.

The Jihad was, for all its horror, a boon to those looking to debut new Battlemech designs, and the Centurion was a beneficiary of new ideas yet again. The earliest jihad version seems to be the CN-9D9, license-built via Jalastar. Using several new technologies, a compact gyro and light-ferro-fibrous armor among them, we find the D5’s twin ER medium lasers in the center torso have returned. A plasma rifle, with two tons of ammo, now take up that right arm mounting- this is a hilariously fun weapon for almost any situation and should be viewed as a whole lot of fun as a result. For the first time though, jump jets appear on a Centurion, giving the Mech a six-hex leap. Combined with the rifle, this is a very intriguing design that deserves respect from opponents- the author was caught off-guard by one not long ago and certainly won’t underestimate one twice.

CN9-Ar meanwhile threw in more new treats- including double heat sinks, something the design hadn’t really needed before. This is because that nice cool autocannon has become a monstrous heavy PPC, backed by a light PPC with it. That requires some heat sinks, for sure! This major upgrade to the original 9-A model finishes things by replacing the rear-mounted laser with a pulse model. This is fun- it fixes a lot of problems with the original Centurion model, and while it runs warm if you push it this works surprisingly well on Jihad-era battlefields. The author was impressed with his test run of this design!

Less impressive was the CN-9-Da, a field modification that removes the 3050-made 9-D’s LB-10X (nooooo!) with a standard AC-5 (NOOOOO!!!) and a targeting computer. While intended to use the Davion-designed speciality munitions, the loss of the LBX’s utility and punch are sorely felt, and I cannot in all good conscience advise commanders to use this variant unless absolutely necessary or if you owe the Mechwarrior money.

Yet another version came from the Marians, who understandably with their culture in mind find the Centurion intriguing. This machine uses primitive technology, with a bulky engine and less-than-effective armor. An LB-10X and a medium laser seem familiar, but where a regular Centurion would have an LRM rack this thing packs in a gaggle of RL-10 packs, as Periphery forces like to do. While not nearly as effective as a standard-tech design, this again gives the Marians the ability to put a versatile anti-vehicle/aircraft platform into the field for dirt-cheap, and deserves respect as a result.

It remains to touch briefly on one last Mech, because while a future article will cover it in detail I would get nothing in the comments but complaints if I leave out Yen-Lo-Wang. The personal ride of Justin Allard, the machine was modified somewhat like the CN9-AH to gain an AC-20 in place of the original cannon, though it also had what we could now call ‘claws’ on the left hand. The Mech was later handed down to his son Kai, who further modified the famous machine with a Gauss rifle replacing the cannon, pulse lasers in place of the other weapons, triple-strength myomer, an XL motor, and one presumes cupholders. With a few exceptions, Kai operated this machine until after the Jihad, and died in its seat. Handed down now to Danai Centrella-Liao, the most recent incarnation of the famous machine seem to have been turned into a melee-nightmare with an axe and shield. More info will be done in a MotW special eventually on Yen-Lo-Wang.

And finally, stay tuned for next week’s look at the Centurion’s new Omni-tech platform, different enough to warrant its own article (by Empyrus). You know what to do- get to talking in the comments!
« Last Edit: 15 October 2016, 09:53:11 by JadeHellbringer »
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #1 on: 15 October 2016, 10:28:44 »
Great article!

With the Marian primiTurion*, I'm still trying to decide if it might be better to concentrate a bunch of them into a single Century(possibly lead by an oldtech Cataphract) for an el cheapo group that can pump out midrange firepower out of all proportion to their cost as long as the armor holds out, or to spread them out across a Cohort in order provide multiple Centuries of mostly oldtech mechs with at least some LB-X support.

* A primiTurion is built with crappy tech. A primTurion has a glitchy hand actuator, so when it reaches out to crush an Elemental, the little finger stays extended.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #2 on: 15 October 2016, 10:35:34 »
Love the write up, one of my favorite mechs always had good luck with it rarely flashy but always  dependable.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #3 on: 15 October 2016, 11:06:34 »
I'm surprised we haven't seen one with an MML yet.  Okay, I'm always surprised when something doesn't have an MML, but with the Centurion's all-in-wonder workhorse design it just seems like it would be such a natural fit.  Perhaps it's used on the omni version?
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #4 on: 15 October 2016, 12:09:41 »
I'm surprised we haven't seen one with an MML yet.  Okay, I'm always surprised when something doesn't have an MML, but with the Centurion's all-in-wonder workhorse design it just seems like it would be such a natural fit.  Perhaps it's used on the omni version?
The Omni Centurion has so many MMLs i'm sick of them.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #5 on: 15 October 2016, 12:39:19 »
Its worth noting that the CN9-D (the 3049, Recovered Star League variant) gains Artemis IV FCS, and CASE as well. The downside is that in order to utilize the CASE only in one location, all the armor is transfered to the RT, so its easier to go boom. Still, its a pretty solid upgrade, and I think the 6/9 speed is one of the big surprises of TR3050. DC fans are probably annoyed that the FedSuns got a Dragon clone at 10 tons lighter however :)

The CN10-B also has a 220 rated standard engine, because its the bizarro design that increases the weight of the Centurion from 50 to 55 tons. Why? Who knows.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #6 on: 15 October 2016, 12:49:49 »
The CN10-B also has a 220 rated standard engine, because its the bizarro design that increases the weight of the Centurion from 50 to 55 tons. Why? Who knows.

It is based on MechCommander Centurion that is 55 tons for some reason, i think. Just like that 70-ton JagerMech.

I dislike the CN10-B, it is like an optimized version of the Centurion, all thanks to the 5 extra tons. Well, almost, it lacks double heat sinks. And has torso bomb, though DHS would reduce probability of an ammo explosion.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #7 on: 15 October 2016, 13:08:53 »
Great article!

With the Marian primiTurion*, I'm still trying to decide if it might be better to concentrate a bunch of them into a single Century(possibly lead by an oldtech Cataphract) for an el cheapo group that can pump out midrange firepower out of all proportion to their cost as long as the armor holds out, or to spread them out across a Cohort in order provide multiple Centuries of mostly oldtech mechs with at least some LB-X support.

* A primiTurion is built with crappy tech. A primTurion has a glitchy hand actuator, so when it reaches out to crush an Elemental, the little finger stays extended.

Obviously a Centurion should be the lead 'Mech in a Maniple made up of Legionnaires. ^-^
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #8 on: 15 October 2016, 13:37:25 »
When we discuss some of Battletech’s true timeless designs- Mechs so popular that they virtually define a unit style- what do we think of? For LRM support, the Archer is usually what people think of first, maybe a Cyclops as a command unit, or a Locust for scouting. Trooper designs have a few solid entries, of course, but perhaps none fit the bill better than the Centurion, a design that has embodied the frontline soldier aspect of Battlemech warfare since the fall of the Star League. While perhaps not the most agile, most powerful, or toughest design, it is a solid fighter at any range that allows one to meet any task with ease, from its earliest days to the cutting-edge versions now fighting in 3150.

I have always liked the look of the old centurions..  Though i never understood the fascination with the one big RIGHT Arm gun..  What, they had no lefties?

Bringing in a standard-model CN9-A for review, we find a fairly basic machine in most respects.
..Snip..

One of my all time fave base line units..  A solid mech, that gives almost as good as it gets...

The problems with the cannon resulted in many field modifications to Centurions, but the first named new model was the CN9-AH, which pulled the gun and the two medium lasers in favor of an AC-20. While the firepower obviously goes up in terms of cannon power, the loss of range is disappointing, and the author suggests sticking to the Hunchback for your assault-grade autocannon needs. The AH isn’t a bad machine, but the differences between the LRM and cannon’s ranges mean that it’s sometimes difficult to do much more than one-weapon attacks. Support this machine well.

I never understood that model..  Going with the big boomstick vice keeping the AC-10, and maybe upgrading the LRM to a 15 pack..

Our next variant is the CN9-AL, another attempt to remove the wretched autocannon. This time however, the result was an over-under combination of a large laser and small laser, with six more heat sinks added to help cover the added heat. Two and a half tons of armor also were tacked on to an already tough machine, making for a really fun Mech. The laser’s range isn’t that different from the old Luxor, and only loses two points of damage per shot in exchange for being free of ammo concerns.  While the author wouldn’t mind dropping half a ton of the new armor to bump that small laser to a medium, the CN9-AL is a very fun machine to use, and should be strongly considered over the original for raiding and other operations that might make cannon reloads difficult to come by.

Every time i used one of those back in the day, it always LOST that arm with the large in..  Only had a few who lost it when they kept the AC-10...  Strange that.

By the time the Clans invaded, the Centurion had become one of the most important Mechs in the AFFS/AFFC arsenal, and so it was no surprise that recovered Star League technology was quickly added to the Mech in the hopes of making it an even more useful design than ever. The CN-9D that resulted first pulled off the autocannon yet again to add a Mydron LB-10X instead, a simply fantastic upgrade in terms of both reliability and utility. The engine bumped to a 300XL, an upgrade that may or may not be viewed as acceptable depending on preferences- while it does make for a more fragile machine than the old version, the boost in speed to 6/9 is certainly nice! What had been a stately-paced trooper suddenly can kick its heels up and keep pace on the ground with the old bug Mechs and the like, and suddenly the Centurion can is capable of flanking an enemy rather than finding itself on the wrong end of a flanking maneuver! Endo-steel internal structure was used in this as well to keep weight down, making for a difficult field upgrade if one wishes to improve their old machine but no problem for the New Avalon production site.

If anything i would have liked them to go to a 5/8/5 spread rather than 6/9/0...  BUT the LB-10's greater range did help imo.

A brief sidenote is the CN-9D3, an NAIS testbed machine equipped with triple-strength myomer. This Mech can’t really gain enough heat to reliably use the myomer, so outside of the testbed scenario this isn’t a great machine- you’re best leaving it as a standard 9D and using that myomer on something that can really utilize it, like a Griffin.

I always wondered why they had that version..

A halfway measure came along in the late 3050s with the CN10-B, keeping the Endo-Steel and LB-10X of the 9D but sticking with the original 200-class fusion engine and 4/6 movement. The Mech gains Artemis to its LRM rack and one of the lasers gains pulse technology as well, but one can’t help but like this if you need a low-cost anti-armor machine that can take a bit of a pounding. LB-10X is a great way to park enemy vehicles and lawn-dart aircraft, and this makes for a great way to get one in the field on the cheap.

The 10-b was a decent refit for the older one..  Though i could have seen going ferro vice endo, and keeping the MLs at regular levels vice pulsing one..  That way they could have still done the Art IV on the LRM, and added some jump jets.

As the FedCom Civil War began to swirl, yet another variant debuted, this time using the 300XL of the 9-D to keep the 6/9 speed. This version, the D5, took the idea of the fast-Centurion even further though with the inclusion of MASC, allowing for brief Locust-like bursts of speed. The weaponry is completely overhauled, with paired ER medium lasers in the chest providing backup to a mighty Rotary AC-5 in the right arm. Three tons of ammo provide a standard combat load for the cannon, while CASE keeps an explosion from wiping out the Mech in the event of a catastrophe (the XL engine, of course, means the Mech is still out of the fight). A targeting computer helps put the gun on-target, and a C3 Slave module means that the RAC is just the beginning of the target’s suffering. This is a REALLY fun Mech for jobs like headhunting, or for responding to threats along a defensive front- a brief burst of speed, and the CN9-D5 is on the scene to punish those who attempt to breach the line. The author strongly recommends this design for mobile operations, though the LRM of previous designs is missed for ranged attacks.

This is one of the few refits i hated..  Always jammed up that RAC....  Well in the 9 games i used one, i jammed up 7 times... 

As the D5 marched off the New Avalon assembly lines, we also see the D3D enter service. Keeping the same engine/MASC as its cousin, the D3D also retains the LRM-10 of older versions, backed by an ER medium laser. The obligatory big-ballistic has become a Light Gauss Rifle, making for an excellent mobile sniper. A switch to ferro-fibrous armor also makes it a bit tougher than usual, never a bad thing.

The Light gauss is a good switch out to replace the AC..  Much better range, but the drop in damage is a little like going to the large laser...

Based on the D3D, the D4D drops the engine back down a notch to bump the LRM to a 15, with an Artemis system attached. Less speed, more missiles- if you feel that’s a good tradeoff, this design is for you. If not, it’s really the same basic idea.

With my love for LRM-15s you would think i would have known of this model, but i didn't till i saw it in HMP.. >:(

All in all, i have always liked them, more so the original models, than some of the upgraded ones..
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #9 on: 15 October 2016, 16:22:38 »
Why do I get the feeling that the 9Da is the variant you get assigned after you bring the Colonel's daughter home at 3 AM with her shirt on backwards?
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #10 on: 15 October 2016, 17:12:27 »
A halfway measure came along in the late 3050s with the CN10-B, keeping the Endo-Steel and LB-10X of the 9D but sticking with the original 200-class fusion engine and 4/6 movement. The Mech gains Artemis to its LRM rack and one of the lasers gains pulse technology as well, but one can’t help but like this if you need a low-cost anti-armor machine that can take a bit of a pounding. LB-10X is a great way to park enemy vehicles and lawn-dart aircraft, and this makes for a great way to get one in the field on the cheap.
actually the CN10-B would be using a 220 class engine, since the CN10-B is a 55 ton variant. Sarna's write up left that part out and a lot of fans tend to forget that, since every other Centurion model is 50 tons.
the CN10-B was a canonization of the 55 ton Centurions found in the first Mechcommander game. personally i'm just glad they went for a "super CN9-A" feel rather than try to cannonize the loadouts from the game. though the weapons variant with the PPC replacing the lasers and some armor might have made an interesting design in the boardgame.

my guess is that, given the 3057 intro date, the CN10-B was a not quite successful attempt to make a "clanbuster" trooper mech, to support the increasingly common fights along the clan front.
« Last Edit: 15 October 2016, 17:24:13 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #11 on: 15 October 2016, 17:52:55 »
Great article, JHB.  I like trooper the Centurion is.  I like the AL version for the raiding and long campaigns.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #12 on: 15 October 2016, 22:21:31 »
I was not aware of the existence of the CN9-Ar. Even better, it winds up on the Periphery General list. Woo hoo!
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #13 on: 16 October 2016, 00:46:54 »
One thing i always wondered about..  That "razor fin; on their heads..
Was there any in game reason ever given for why that was on the head?  OR was it just artists prerogative?
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #14 on: 16 October 2016, 00:53:43 »
One thing i always wondered about..  That "razor fin; on their heads..
Was there any in game reason ever given for why that was on the head?  OR was it just artists prerogative?

Antenna or sensor blister, IIRC, from Blood of Kerensky trilogy.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #15 on: 16 October 2016, 01:50:19 »
Added benefit of giving it a look closer to it's name sake

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #16 on: 16 October 2016, 02:46:18 »
No mention of the ammo storage?

Don't get me wrong, I like the Centurion, but a penetrating hit to the right torso has a bad habit of reducing the 'Mech to confetti.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #17 on: 16 October 2016, 04:16:25 »
actually the CN10-B would be using a 220 class engine, since the CN10-B is a 55 ton variant. Sarna's write up left that part out and a lot of fans tend to forget that, since every other Centurion model is 50 tons.
the CN10-B was a canonization of the 55 ton Centurions found in the first Mechcommander game. personally i'm just glad they went for a "super CN9-A" feel rather than try to cannonize the loadouts from the game. though the weapons variant with the PPC replacing the lasers and some armor might have made an interesting design in the boardgame.

my guess is that, given the 3057 intro date, the CN10-B was a not quite successful attempt to make a "clanbuster" trooper mech, to support the increasingly common fights along the clan front.
Considering how the availability of that variant develops, I get the feeling that the Filtvelt Coalition might have a production/refit facility for it.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #18 on: 16 October 2016, 07:54:47 »
No mention of the ammo storage?

Don't get me wrong, I like the Centurion, but a penetrating hit to the right torso has a bad habit of reducing the 'Mech to confetti.
Yeah, well, this applies to rather many introductory level designs, like the far more famous Marauder. Though admittedly the Marauder has a slight chance of reducing the ammo explosion to a manageable level, somewhat harder to do that with the Centurion.

Pretty sure someone did mention the torso bomb though.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #19 on: 16 October 2016, 08:15:43 »
No mention of the ammo storage?

Don't get me wrong, I like the Centurion, but a penetrating hit to the right torso has a bad habit of reducing the 'Mech to confetti.

Being that it's something that is fairly common in that era, with no good fix to it, it seemed like a detail best left out- you might have noticed that this was running pretty long as it is.  :-\
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #20 on: 16 October 2016, 10:40:15 »
I think its hilarious to hear a 4/6 55 ton mech without DHS in the mid 3050s be called optimized- especially when it still has a medium type laser pointed to the rear.  IMO the 10-B was the logical upgrade (minus weight of course) to the old CN9-As the AFFC were fielding when the Clans came calling . . . of course they used Endo at the time because of the difference in rules.  Now they would have used FF . . . which IIRC can still be fit on a CN10-B as well.  Throw on the wasted weight of the Artemis system . . . yeah, not optimized.

I had not seen the Plasma Rifle Centurion before, I will have to look into that since I have wanted a Wolverine mounting one for a while, it might be my canon solution.

Like others, I am a bit surprised we did not get a MML version in the Jihad.

Any thoughts on the various Centurion minis?  I have the Lance Pack plastic and an old RP one.  Do the 3050 set look any different?
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #21 on: 16 October 2016, 11:14:44 »
Great write up of an absoutely solid trooper.  The Centurion is a good machine, it fits into most roles and whilst a bit slow, its got a punch to make a mess of folks who underestimate it. Thank you for writing this :)
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #22 on: 16 October 2016, 11:24:02 »
Agreed, this was a nice read on a weekend that's been a little trying.  Thanks, Hellbie.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #23 on: 16 October 2016, 22:55:08 »
hands down my favorite Battlemech ever, only the Wolfhound comes in second place.

the D3D and D4D models FYI were introduced in Record Sheets: Dark Age, well before Catalyst gave us the Centurion Omnimech.  I think most of the stuff from that is now fluffed as "Prefecture Compliant" versions of much more effective vehicles, not sure though
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #24 on: 17 October 2016, 07:25:15 »
hands down my favorite Battlemech ever, only the Wolfhound comes in second place.

the D3D and D4D models FYI were introduced in Record Sheets: Dark Age, well before Catalyst gave us the Centurion Omnimech.  I think most of the stuff from that is now fluffed as "Prefecture Compliant" versions of much more effective vehicles, not sure though

Aha, a book that I admit I didn't even crack open while trying to find those wayward versions. Excellent, I'll update the article in a while with that info once I can get the office insanity under control!
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #25 on: 17 October 2016, 08:47:48 »
Prefecture Compliant?
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #26 on: 17 October 2016, 12:23:59 »
I've used the stock Centurion a lot and I've always been struck by the fact that it really doesn't have an optimal range band to fight at: it can do something at a lot of ranges but there really isn't a range where it does particularly well.  I expect better from a mech that ought to have Power Extreme.

The RACturion was seriously fun to use, though.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #27 on: 17 October 2016, 12:54:10 »
I've used the stock Centurion a lot and I've always been struck by the fact that it really doesn't have an optimal range band to fight at: it can do something at a lot of ranges but there really isn't a range where it does particularly well.  I expect better from a mech that ought to have Power Extreme.

The RACturion was seriously fun to use, though.
The Centurion is definitely a team player, occasionally a body guard (such as the AH, which seems to be well suited to keeping attackers away from a fire lance while contributing extra firepower at distance). It adds its firepower within a bracket to others, rather than doing much in it self.
The same applies to the Omni-Centurion quite heavily, i think, though its heavier armor and speed, along with certain configs makes it more of a threat in itself.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #28 on: 17 October 2016, 13:05:37 »
I've used the stock Centurion a lot and I've always been struck by the fact that it really doesn't have an optimal range band to fight at: it can do something at a lot of ranges but there really isn't a range where it does particularly well.  I expect better from a mech that ought to have Power Extreme.

The RACturion was seriously fun to use, though.

What you did in there? I see it. And now I have theme music from 30 years ago stuck in my head.

I don't think I like you.  ;D
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #29 on: 17 October 2016, 13:14:32 »
Mission accomplished.  >:D
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #30 on: 17 October 2016, 16:19:31 »
What you did in there? I see it. And now I have theme music from 30 years ago stuck in my head.

I don't think I like you.  ;D

30 years since centurions, power extreme was on the TV..  man do i feel old.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #31 on: 17 October 2016, 17:09:04 »
Nice writeup. Though I prefer the lighter Enforcer because in 3025 it was prettier than the Centurion, the Centurion was the real backbone medium Mech of the Fed Suns.

Its worth noting that the CN9-D (the 3049, Recovered Star League variant) gains Artemis IV FCS, and CASE as well. The downside is that in order to utilize the CASE only in one location, all the armor is transfered to the RT, so its easier to go boom. Still, its a pretty solid upgrade, and I think the 6/9 speed is one of the big surprises of TR3050. DC fans are probably annoyed that the FedSuns got a Dragon clone at 10 tons lighter however :)
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #32 on: 17 October 2016, 22:57:57 »
Prefecture Compliant?

Sort of like State Compliant Firearms, Down graded, nerfed or otherwise less functional then stuff meant for the RAF
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #33 on: 18 October 2016, 10:24:28 »
Here's a thought for the CN9-AH, it goes back to the original goal for the Centurion, LRM bodyguard. But wait you say, it still can only fire one weapon at a time (due to range brackets). That's fine, it's got LRMs to pitch in with the rest of the LRM lance it's guarding, and a big honkin' autocannon to smack around anyone that gets close to his lancemates. Sure it will have a hard time hitting fast movers, but so does anything intro-tech. But if it does hit, you've crippled or destroyed any light/medium fast movers.

The RACturion is a more modern take on the LRM lance bodyguard. But wait, it doesn't have LRMs. You're right, but it does have a C3 Slave, perfect for spotting for the rest of it's C3 lance or company. Also with it's speed and RAC it can go chase down enemy harassers before they get close to the rest of it's lance.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #34 on: 18 October 2016, 12:08:03 »
Sort of like State Compliant Firearms, Down graded, nerfed or otherwise less functional then stuff meant for the RAF
What source mentions this concept? I haven't encountered it before, despite a fair amount of research on the dark age era.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #35 on: 18 October 2016, 12:33:08 »
Maybe some ancillary MWDA material? Sarna makes some notes about "downgraded export variant" for some 'Mech variants, usually Dark Ages 'Mechs.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #36 on: 18 October 2016, 13:22:40 »
I just noticed TRO3050U makes a claim of the Centurion being used to test Compact Engines (among other things). Is there such a variant (ie did i somehow miss it) or is it just  mentioned without there actually being a published Centurion with a Compact Engine?

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #37 on: 18 October 2016, 14:25:08 »
I just noticed TRO3050U makes a claim of the Centurion being used to test Compact Engines (among other things). Is there such a variant (ie did i somehow miss it) or is it just  mentioned without there actually being a published Centurion with a Compact Engine?

I didn't see one in my prep for the article, but I also didn't find the RS:MWDA variants at first either. If they're out there, I may very well have simply missed that it had such an engine, but I feel like I'd have noticed something like that.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #38 on: 18 October 2016, 14:42:27 »
It would be a interesting degree of changes with the 3050s Centurions, a supposed Compact Engine for absorbing damage and the Omni-Cent which has a XL & IIRC a Compact Gyro.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #39 on: 18 October 2016, 14:51:17 »
I just noticed TRO3050U makes a claim of the Centurion being used to test Compact Engines (among other things). Is there such a variant (ie did i somehow miss it) or is it just  mentioned without there actually being a published Centurion with a Compact Engine?
My guess would be they were never more than testbeds.  We only get record sheets for production versions.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #40 on: 18 October 2016, 16:14:27 »
maybe we'll get lucky and a future XTRO will have an example of one of the testbeds.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #41 on: 21 October 2016, 12:53:02 »
So is there a boondoggled LAM version of Centurion nicknamed "Skyknight" or "Skybolt"?  ;D  :-X
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #42 on: 21 October 2016, 14:20:36 »
Gads no. No more LAMs.

The Centurion is a fun little trooper. It was one of the kernals of ideas that became XTRO Retrotech (which drove Jymset nuts because not everything was Experimental rules level  ;)). I did like how it got some separation from the Enforcer as the new technology hit. It changes roles from trooper to more of a skermisher but that isn't a bad thing, especially when you can fit a RAC-5 on a medium.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #43 on: 24 October 2016, 21:55:07 »
The Centurion is a great mech.  The 9A and 9D being old favorites.  Just have to get over the slower speed on the old 9A. 

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #44 on: 02 November 2016, 10:28:17 »
Thank you for the great article. I've always had a soft spot for the centurion.  A great all around trooper/ work horse, that can fill a slot in almost any lance.  I'm not a fan of the Xl engine variants, but the D has its uses. 
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #45 on: 18 November 2016, 00:19:59 »
Thank you for the great article. I've always had a soft spot for the centurion.  A great all around trooper/ work horse, that can fill a slot in almost any lance.  I'm not a fan of the Xl engine variants, but the D has its uses.

That is does.  I like the Centurion even though I prefer to run mech units in which all the mechs have jump jets. 

The ability for the 5D to carry both standard and LB-X ammunition makes it very flexible.  It is a threat at any range as long as it has ammunition.  Unless it has a severely damaged side torso, then it is likely going to be a casualty unless it retreats. 
« Last Edit: 18 November 2016, 00:21:34 by Demon55 »

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #46 on: 20 July 2019, 18:44:14 »
Centurion D3D - the light gauss done right. In fact, I'd say it's the only light gauss mech done right. Although you need a big map to use the weapon range, being able to tell the clanner scum you're in medium band and his ER energy weapons are at long? Priceless. Having enough speed and ammo to Kite and circle-strafe him to death? Better

Then the D4D takes what was done right and reverses most of it.
« Last Edit: 20 July 2019, 18:53:03 by Greatclub »

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #47 on: 21 July 2019, 00:15:30 »
So is there a boondoggled LAM version of Centurion nicknamed "Skyknight" or "Skybolt"?  ;D  :-X

There was an attempt, but there were extreme issues with power.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #48 on: 21 July 2019, 16:17:50 »
There was an attempt, but there were extreme issues with power.

*slow clap*
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #49 on: 25 July 2019, 08:52:49 »
My personal appreciation for the Centurion's gone up a notch with HBS BattleTech.  It's one of my core troopers until I manage to get my hands on a stable of heavies, a steadfast and reliable slugger to balance out other 'Mechs.  One recent game I started with two of them.  It was glorious having two AC/10s and some LRMs on tap from the get-go.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #50 on: 29 July 2019, 08:13:59 »
Added benefit of giving it a look closer to it's name sake



Didn't Roman centurions have their crests mounted transversely instead of forward to back?
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #51 on: 29 July 2019, 09:57:19 »
Probably, but the evidence for that is not considered conclusive.  And crests don't appear to have been worn all the time, either.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #52 on: 29 July 2019, 10:44:45 »
Probably, but the evidence for that is not considered conclusive.  And crests don't appear to have been worn all the time, either.

I vaguely remember that it might have changed at one point, then changed back? and that some parade uniform might have had different bits?


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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #53 on: 11 August 2023, 16:12:57 »
Has CGL ever released an official record sheet for Dani Liao-Centrella's version of Yen-Lo-Wang?

Looks like we get a nice image and description of the mech in the novel Principles of Desolation, but I don't see anything in my collection of TROs and Record Sheets.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #54 on: 11 August 2023, 16:27:48 »
It was the Omni Cent D IIRC.
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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #55 on: 11 August 2023, 17:28:53 »
Thats strange, the Yen-Lo-Wang was never an OmniMech and the artwork from Principles of Desolation shows it was based on the standard Centurion.

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #56 on: 11 August 2023, 18:07:43 »
per sarna:
Quote
After passing to Danai Liao-Centrella, the ancient 'Mech featured a Series 4D-2 Heavy Large Laser, a Type XX "Long Bow" LRM-20 with Artemis IV, a Hatchet, a Shield, and Triple Strength Myomer; it was noted to feature experimental Clan technology though it remains unclear to which components exactly this refers.[1][15] By this time, its chassis had been replaced with a Corean Model K77 Endo Steel chassis and it was powered by a Vlar 300 XL fusion engine.

-----
[1] Danai Liao-Centrella's dossier card
[15] Principles of Desolation, pp. 78-90, 98-99

i don't think we've gotten a record sheet for it. the mini for it was a mod of the MWDA centurion figure, and iirc it got some recolors that became the omni centurion D config.

the chassis switch to endo was notable to me, given the extensive work that would have required. i guess the damage it took when Kai died in it combined with the wreck sitting in a warehouse for so long was extensive enough that a complete rebuild was needed
« Last Edit: 11 August 2023, 18:12:53 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #57 on: 11 August 2023, 18:15:54 »
the chassis switch to endo was notable to me, given the extensive work that would have required. i guess the damage it took when Kai died in it combined with the wreck sitting in a warehouse for so long was extensive enough that a complete rebuild was needed

Something just occurred to me:  If 'mechs are anything like modern vehicles, a new chassis, especially a different one, means it's practically a new 'mech in identity too, especially if serial numbers are stamped on the chassis like they tend to be somewhere on the frames of cars and trucks.
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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #58 on: 12 August 2023, 01:18:32 »
Thats strange, the Yen-Lo-Wang was never an OmniMech and the artwork from Principles of Desolation shows it was based on the standard Centurion.

The MWDA was not a Omni until CGL started converting the MWDA designs, see the notes for Maclovia Saavedra . . . I have the figure sitting on a bookshelf.  The pilot card's mech portion says it was modeled on a Solaris VII model.

Serial Number TA6101-11J
Mass 50 tons
Chassis Corean Model K77 Endo Steel
Power Plant Magna 250 Fusion
Cruising Speed 54 kph, 65 khp w/Triple-Strength Myomer
Maximum Speed 86.4 kph, 112khp w/Triple-Strength Myomer
Jump Jets None
Armor StarGuard III
Armament 1 Defiance Model XXII Extended-Range Medium Laser
1 Federated 10-shot Long-Range Missile 10 Launcher

Originally deployed by the Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey, one of the former Free
Worlds member states, serial number TA6101-11J was captured by the Wolf‘s
Dragoons during an objective raid in the early 3110s and heavily customized to
mount a shield and hatchet, similar to a Centurion variant seen recently on
Solaris. Saavedra, an accomplished close-in fighter, is particularly adept at using
the shield and hatchet combo to great effect in battle, but she prefers to whittle an
enemy‘s defenses down first with her ranged weapons.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Wrangler

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #59 on: 12 August 2023, 09:20:45 »
Essentially, Danai's version of the Yen-Lo-Wang Dark Age era machine wasn't stated out officially, though canon.   It was to have Clan Heavy Medium Laser, Shield, Hatchet, LRM and the Hatchet.  It was depicted twice in the Novels, with backstory of Danai Liao-Centrella being gifted the wreck of the 'Mech after Kai's death. She rebuilt it.

I'm not owner of this, but BattleTech: Essentials may have record sheets for it. I know there some Record Sheets for the Yen-Lo-Wang is included, but I'm unsure where I saw Clan stats.  The Succession War Era version appearing in TRO: 3039 Record Sheets, and the Clan Invasion era Yen-Lo-Wang stats (the CN9-YLW2) showed up in TRO: 3050U Inner Sphere record sheets.

Kai's CN9-YLW3 version, with Clan weaponry does appear in Turning Points: Capellan Crusades. Record sheet, but it's not quite same machine.  Shield missing, has Clan Gauss Rifle instead.  It has a Heavy Medium laser, Hatchet, Clan LRM 20 and the TSM with light Ferro.

Closest one that has the Shield is the OmniMech version of the Centurion, the CN11-OD  which has a Medium shield on it.  Technically, you can fit it out that way. However, no TSM like real deal.
« Last Edit: 12 August 2023, 09:24:40 by Wrangler »
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DarkSpade

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #60 on: 12 August 2023, 13:16:36 »
Essentially, Danai's version of the Yen-Lo-Wang Dark Age era machine wasn't stated out officially, though canon.   It was to have Clan Heavy Medium Laser, Shield, Hatchet, LRM and the Hatchet.  It was depicted twice in the Novels, with backstory of Danai Liao-Centrella being gifted the wreck of the 'Mech after Kai's death. She rebuilt it.

Iirc, Kai had declared she would inherit the mech after meeting her as a child.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #61 on: 12 August 2023, 14:32:36 »
I thought the laser on Danai’s version was a Heavy Large.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #62 on: 12 August 2023, 15:26:48 »
That was my recollection as well.
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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #63 on: 12 August 2023, 20:50:51 »
That was my recollection as well.

It was, the LRM rack was Clan as well which is prob where extra weight comes from.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Wrangler

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #64 on: 13 August 2023, 19:29:58 »
I thought the laser on Danai’s version was a Heavy Large.
Correct. It was, that's why i said her version wasn't stated out in Record Sheet verse, Kai's which was.   Her's slightly different and using Clan tech just like his version.
« Last Edit: 20 August 2023, 16:21:13 by Wrangler »
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
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Alex Keller

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #65 on: 20 August 2023, 02:35:56 »
Wow, so Kai's last ride had three (3) headcapping weapons including a Clan Gauss (15 points), Clan Heavy Large Laser (16 Points), and a Hatchet with TSM (20 points) in addition to a Clan LRM-20? That's insane when I think about his Special Pilot Abilities!

Empyrus

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #66 on: 20 August 2023, 02:42:25 »
YLW3 doesn't have heavy laser, only Clan ER Medium. Two headcappers, the Gauss and TSM-d hatchet.
Danai's YLW trades the Gauss for a shield (implicitly, as we have no official record sheet) and the laser for the heavy large.

MarauderD

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #67 on: 23 August 2023, 17:02:46 »
Wow, so Kai's last ride had three (3) headcapping weapons including a Clan Gauss (15 points), Clan Heavy Large Laser (16 Points), and a Hatchet with TSM (20 points) in addition to a Clan LRM-20? That's insane when I think about his Special Pilot Abilities!

How does all this goodness fit on a 50 ton Centurion?

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #68 on: 23 August 2023, 17:24:54 »
How does all this goodness fit on a 50 ton Centurion?
as mentioned, it doesn't.. kai only had the CLRM20, Cgauss, and a CERML. plus a switch to light ferro. given it is also said to have DHS it is actually oversinked, producing 14 and sinking 20.

when i rebuild it in MML, it actualyl comes in a ton under, so i'd guessing some armor got added.


when i try to build Danai's version, i have trouble fitting everything. if you use IS tech you can fit it all crits wise (though its close) but you end up 3.5 tons overweight.. if you switch to a clan LRM rack you can do it 1 crit and 1.5 tons under max. (and i couldn't figure out what "experimental clan tech" she might be using.. especially given that mixed tech and IS built clan weapons aren't experimental anymore.)
« Last Edit: 23 August 2023, 17:36:19 by glitterboy2098 »

Wrangler

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #69 on: 25 August 2023, 21:16:28 »
There must be other things done to it. Endo-Composite may work.  The MWDA novels, at least first one that introduced her was vague on what it was armed with other than it had shield and hatchet. It only said Clan LRMs and a "Heavy laser", but not which one. Its been while since I read the novels, I do know later she had Heavy Larger Laser.

I'm curious if the authors have access to functional version of Danai's machine.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: MotW: Centurion
« Reply #70 on: 01 September 2023, 11:59:26 »
I'm curious if the authors have access to functional version of Danai's machine.

Nope. It would really help with clearing out my neighbor's dead trees if we were allowed to use it.
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