Industrial Equipment which should exist (in BattleTech), but doesn't

[Daemion]

Oh.  Is there an UrbanMech grill attachment?

[Argus1348]

If you are lifting weapons up high like that, I'd want to make sure that they had low or zero recoil.  So energy weapons, recoilles rifles, TAG, Recon Cameras, etc.

I think there was once a prototype british tank that lifted it's weapon over a cover. Maybe called "Praying Mantis"? But it did'nt work. Perhaps because of the recoil-issue, you mentioned.

For low-tech items that are not present, I'd simplify it as doubling the heat, mass, and crits of the item for each TL below its availability.

For turrets there is also the option of giving them the "Slow Traverse" design quirk.

So if you wanted a TL D Gauss Rifle and the only version is the Star League TL E Gauss Rifle, then your TL D version would be 2 Heat, 30 tons, and 14 crit slots.  In exchange you get a weapon doing 15 pts of damage at ranges of (2) 7/15/22.  TL C Gauss Rifle would be Heat 4, 60 tons, and 28 crits.

This is a nice idea. There are also rules for prototype weapons in "Interstellar Operations - Alternate Eras" (page 112).

[idea weenie]

This thread is making me think of a couple things:

Mech-towable disc attachment.  For when you need to make the land arable, but it's on too steep a slope for regular tractor types, and the soil's too shallow for easy terracing.  Think about a world where the only land you have is mountainous, like maybe nothing more than island chains, with very few flat valleys.

Would just using a bulldozer + Rock Cutter Mech be a better idea?  Scrape off and save the good topsoil, create terraces, and put the topsoil back on top?

You still won't be able to harvest the plants with a Combine, but if you only use plants that need human attention (i.e. picking strawberries) then the limitation of human-only workers is not an issue

[Lycanphoenix]

Let's steal some design concepts from the classes of Deep Rock Galactic.

Just reading that name makes me think a lot of this will be over the top.   

From the gunner, we can steal the Anchor Line Deployment System, a rather nasty harpoon gun and tough cable that can be used either to tie the enemy down, or to create a mech-scale zipline.  Attach several to a landed dropship to create Fun on liftoff.  Gunner has guns, what do you expect?

Off to a good start, but probably more military than Industrial.

From the Scout, let's steal the Phereomone Canister, for getting the wildlife to do your fighting for you,

What do we look like, druids?

and the flare gun,

Already kinda(?) exists in BattleTech, but a civilian flare gun instead of a special munition seems like a good idea.

because we sure can't steal the grapling hook that lets you attach and zip around like a gremlin.

Maybe not if you're a mech.

Scout's not good for ideas either.  Maybe turn the Inhibitor Field generator into a 'annoy PPC users' weapon that treats any target within the field as at minimum range?

Sounds like a better version of the Blue Shield. I'm on board, but justifying it as industrial rather than military is going to be a hard sell.

Driller, on the other hand can give us several things.  Mech-sized satchel charges for demolitions?  Now you can cause machine gun ammo explosions on anyone you can attach this to, even if they don't have machine gun ammo-just be careful, it has literally 0 armor and any damage can cause an ammo detonation.

I'm on the fence about this one.

The Sludge Pump, for when you want to spray thick sticky acidic goo all over your enemy.

Sprayer and Fluid Gun already have you covered.

The Colette Wave Cooker, a long-range microwave-based flamer, which...doesn't cause heating to armored units, heats up itself way faster than you are comfortable with, and might be a minor warcrime if used on civilians.  Just use it for defoliating, please!

HELL no. Even for defoliation, it's more likely to cause a forest fire than anything else.

Finally, we have the Engineer.  Say hello to Star-League era polycrete foam projectors.  Do you want to build UP the terrain, instead of knocking it down?  Do you want to build a shelf a mech can stand on?  Spray fast-setting Polycrete and stand back for 12 seconds as it sets as hard as rock, but is still as light as pumice!  Use it to seal wall breaches, to block passes, or to simply create platforms on flat ground to stand upon.  And with our new shock-absorbing compound, it can even reduce damage caused by falling onto it!  Or mix in xenofauna repellents to funnel native animals away from your construction sites.  Or just...overclock the inertia inhibitors and spray rapidly hardening construction materials onto your foes, you might actually disable them in this way.

Extensive playtesting required.

And moving on, we have other options.  Use a starship-disassembling breach cutter to slice off limbs, if you can get the unweildy monster on-target.

That has been proposed before...

Use a swarm of flying wiring robots to attack your foes!

That's, uh... Seems more Lancer than BattleTech, but sure, why not? Treat as missiles.

Deploy ECM lure that generate ghost targets!

That is DEFINITELY military. Full stop.

[Daemion]

Would just using a bulldozer + Rock Cutter Mech be a better idea?  Scrape off and save the good topsoil, create terraces, and put the topsoil back on top?

You still won't be able to harvest the plants with a Combine, but if you only use plants that need human attention (i.e. picking strawberries) then the limitation of human-only workers is not an issue

What if you don't have the time to make that happen?

[idea weenie]

What if you don't have the time to make that happen?

If you don't have the time to make the land arable, then you should be using the bulldozer to make the land defensible so you have the time to make it arable.  If the planting season is short enough, then you basically have to write off the current growing year, and make it arable for the next year.

For a general Disc Harrowing setup, I'd just go with the Combine and state that it covers all agricultural equipment (i.e. all agricultural equipment masses 2.5 tons and takes up 4 crits).  The advantage is that a Planter/Seeder consumes far less of a cargo bay when processing an acre of farmland than a Combine.

[Grand_dm]

I think some sort of larger Nail-Rivet gun is in order. One that is used to drive massive nails or pieces of rebar into all sorts of asteroids or stone.

In game terms it would be able to deliver its damage to BAR10 targets.

[acksed]

Winches! The most basic tool of heavy equipment handling, but one I have wanted for a very long time. When I proposed it, I eventually got a message that it had existed (in a non-canon magazine):

[...]there's rules for winches in MechForce Quarterly. Apparently, the rules were that a winch had to be mounted in a turret, and that a winch masses one ton for every twenty tons it was required to pull.

So Light, Medium, Heavy and Ultra-Heavy Winches are available for pulling tanks and mechs out of mud, stump-pulling, bridging and anything else you use a coil of wire rope on a motorised reel for.

The actual rules for dragging, I can't find on cursory inspection.

[Daryk]

I think Lift Hoists are pretty much that.

[RifleMech]

This thread is making me think of a couple things:

Mech-towable disc attachment.  For when you need to make the land arable, but it's on too steep a slope for regular tractor types, and the soil's too shallow for easy terracing.  Think about a world where the only land you have is mountainous, like maybe nothing more than island chains, with very few flat valleys.

On the flip side, say hello to the tractor Mech.  it takes the torso of a mech, (arms not necessary, but can have some function) and saddle it on a vehicle body.  (Think the G-Tank from Gundam)  The purpose for this design is that the turret-like torso can be tilted on sloped angles to keep the 'operator' relatively comfortable and keep the center of gravity relatively centered for operation in sloped environments.

Finally, the mining drill laser might have a high-pressure liquid (water) drill version.  Thought of this a while ago for the guys in the attached image.

Got your Mech Tiller.  ;)

It could make normal terrain into rough.

A cross between a mech and a vehicle could be fun. Some advantages of vehicle and Mech along with their disadvantages.

[RifleMech]

Winches! The most basic tool of heavy equipment handling, but one I have wanted for a very long time. When I proposed it, I eventually got a message that it had existed (in a non-canon magazine):So Light, Medium, Heavy and Ultra-Heavy Winches are available for pulling tanks and mechs out of mud, stump-pulling, bridging and anything else you use a coil of wire rope on a motorised reel for.

The actual rules for dragging, I can't find on cursory inspection.

A small winch would be useful for small vehicles that can't mount a 3 ton lift hoist.


Additional hand held tools.
Mech scale shovels for digging.
Mech scale hammer useful for pounding on things without being as heavy as a pile driver.

Leg Clamps/Magnets used to anchor mechs in slippery terrain or low to zero gravity like asteroids and the surface of warships.

[idea weenie]

A small winch would be useful for small vehicles that can't mount a 3 ton lift hoist.

You could cheat by using a 1.5 ton Lift Hoist that had only half the capability of the three-ton Lift Hoist.

This way instead of trying to fit a 3-ton Lift Hoist onto a 5-ton vehicle, you fit a 1.5 ton Lift Hoist and accept the lower lift capability.

[Hazard Pay]

1.5 tons for 25% lift capacity? Sounds doable.

[Lycanphoenix]

Leg Clamps/Magnets used to anchor mechs in slippery terrain or low to zero gravity like asteroids and the surface of warships.

Mech Anchoring System

[RifleMech]

You could cheat by using a 1.5 ton Lift Hoist that had only half the capability of the three-ton Lift Hoist.

This way instead of trying to fit a 3-ton Lift Hoist onto a 5-ton vehicle, you fit a 1.5 ton Lift Hoist and accept the lower lift capability.

Sounds reasonable.  :thumbsup:

Mech Anchoring System

Good name  :thumbsup:

[Lycanphoenix]

I believe I made a post about it already. I’ll dig it up later.

[Jeyar123]

May have missed this elsewhere...

Fisher of mechs: a large pull system of netting - we have a few in universe terrors of the deep. Now use a mech to pull them in - and then try to trap a mech with them. More of a trap/piloting skill impact than damage maybe.

Grounding suit: ESD is the enemy of civilian industries all over the place. Adding grounding suits (often with grounding straps) for civilians has been a solution, why not for an industrial mech doing electrically delicate work it wasn't intended for initially (also the mental image makes me giggle). No idea what to translate that into for mechs, maybe less em noise creation or partial protection from plasma ppc or stealth spoofing?

Crowbar: useful for breaking up walls and lifting heavy stones in the field. Also loads of information about them used in fights - I'd suggest they get a bonus for damage or crits under certain conditions.

Mentally I often try to think of mech as giant people with arthritis, partially tied up and with an inner ear infection - i.e. not too agile unless moving impossibly slowly. So a hammer to break up foundations or hammer in nails to split out large architecture scale stone may be a stretch.

Knife: not a sword or blade or vibro blade all with all the bonuses, but maybe it does what the unit can't by itself. Normally you can't quickly shape trees iron beams or stone, but with the mech knife you can make log cabins reasonably, I beam into mech Punji sticks or stone into Caltrops.

Wheelbarrow: early on, when we had no idea how someone salvaged mechs in this game world, we figured mechs either worked together to carry units back, they used drop ship armor placed the unit on top and the dragged it back or they built mech wheelbarrows (traditionally Asian style instead of European if possible). With these once you got the unit stuffed in it was easy to imagine a 20 finger bringing back assaults. However once they are legal the things carried bloom terrifyingly.

Anyway this was fun. First post back.

[Jeyar123]

Steal toed boots - the clans develop maybe the best physical weapon. Talons - so maybe a big strong boot can mitigate that a bit. Call it 25% damage to kicks and maybe slightly lighter or aid piloting checks.

Leaf blower - give it ammo of fine dust and you are had to see. Give it charged graphite and maybe you can commit a war crime.

Jugs - it takes a huge amount of energy to make what is in the jog to spill on you, but get into physical range and not only a bonus for one hit damage, you get what was in the jug on the target.

Lasso - myomer lasso that pulls, may take a bit of energy (heat). Tripping and restraining fears.

Mech scale duct tape. Add the mech knife from above and you might have mech scale MacGyver. All those traps in the woods, sticky ammo, attaching ammo to physical weapons (AC 20 on you sword is just a one shot hatchet with fond memories).

Hmmm... All for now.

[idea weenie]

Fisher of mechs: a large pull system of netting - we have a few in universe terrors of the deep. Now use a mech to pull them in - and then try to trap a mech with them. More of a trap/piloting skill impact than damage maybe.

Net would be short-ranged if tossed by the Mech, though using a Thunderbolt munition might be possible.  So short-ranged, but a hit means the enemy Mech gets piloting penalties to remain upright depending on how much you beat the TN by?  Maybe a divisor, so beating the TN by 4 or 5 means a 3-pt penalty to enemy Piloting rolls (1 for meeting the TN, 1 for each 2 full pts of beating the TN)

Grounding suit: ESD is the enemy of civilian industries all over the place. Adding grounding suits (often with grounding straps) for civilians has been a solution, why not for an industrial mech doing electrically delicate work it wasn't intended for initially (also the mental image makes me giggle). No idea what to translate that into for mechs, maybe less em noise creation or partial protection from plasma ppc or stealth spoofing?

Mech gets a bonus vs Mech Tasers, at a cost in tonnage?

Crowbar: useful for breaking up walls and lifting heavy stones in the field. Also loads of information about them used in fights - I'd suggest they get a bonus for damage or crits under certain conditions.

Use the rules for a club, mace, or Rock Cutter?

Knife: not a sword or blade or vibro blade all with all the bonuses, but maybe it does what the unit can't by itself. Normally you can't quickly shape trees iron beams or stone, but with the mech knife you can make log cabins reasonably, I beam into mech Punji sticks or stone into Caltrops.

Take a vibrosword, halve the mass and damage for that size of Mech, but give a bonus on the roll to change raw materials into finished goods?  A proper sawmill/cutting frame/stoneshaping facility can do it faster, but sometimes you need the capability in the wild.

Wheelbarrow: early on, when we had no idea how someone salvaged mechs in this game world, we figured mechs either worked together to carry units back, they used drop ship armor placed the unit on top and the dragged it back or they built mech wheelbarrows (traditionally Asian style instead of European if possible). With these once you got the unit stuffed in it was easy to imagine a 20 finger bringing back assaults. However once they are legal the things carried bloom terrifyingly.

Wheeled vehicle, no engine, just structure and cargo capacity?  Pick the max movement speed of the wheelbarrow, and make sure you have enough structure to handle that.  Of course the question then becomes if it would be better to just use a flatbed truck or a CargoMech.
- European wheelbarrow with the wheel in the front would split the cargo weight between the Mech and the wheel, so if a Mech could lift only 10 tons then the max mass of the loaded Wheelbarrow (wheelbarrow and cargo combined) would be 20 tons.
- Chinese Wheelbarrow has the wheel in the center so the load has to be carefully arranged to be symmetrical.  Since most of the weight is resting on the central wheel then the load on the Mech is much lower, meaning the Mech can carry more weight (same Mech could carry 60-120 tons).

Steal toed boots - the clans develop maybe the best physical weapon. Talons - so maybe a big strong boot can mitigate that a bit. Call it 25% damage to kicks and maybe slightly lighter or aid piloting checks.

Extra tonnage in the legs, not sure if proportional to Mech tonnage to get the benefit, or flat benefit per ton (like Mech armor, but mean and Atlas can have BIG STOMPY BOOTS).  Honestly I'd treat it as Patchwork Armor, using Hardened armor in the Legs.

Leaf blower - give it ammo of fine dust and you are had to see. Give it charged graphite and maybe you can commit a war crime.

Vehicle grenade launchers firing smoke or chemical rounds would be a good way to simulate this.

Jugs - it takes a huge amount of energy to make what is in the jog to spill on you, but get into physical range and not only a bonus for one hit damage, you get what was in the jug on the target.

Cargo tonnage and a Fluid Cannon could simulate this.  Unless you are thinking Mech-scale Bucket Brigade?

Lasso - myomer lasso that pulls, may take a bit of energy (heat). Tripping and restraining fears.

Similar to the Net above, but lower tonnage and needs more piloting skill?

Mech scale duct tape. Add the mech knife from above and you might have mech scale MacGyver. All those traps in the woods, sticky ammo, attaching ammo to physical weapons (AC 20 on you sword is just a one shot hatchet with fond memories).

This one I have no idea how to model.

[Cannonshop]

Concrete/Ferrocrete mixer (vehicle mounted).  What's it for? pouring quikset Ferrocrete over a bunker's exits and it stops being a fighting position and becomes a tomb.

also good for firming up earthworks.

'mech Scale Sandbags! Improvised fortification on the go, and cheap.  (*also good for shoring up earthworks to contain or prevent flooding).

Sandblaster/media blaster: good for removing paint and resistant coatings, polishing surfaces, and frosting ferroglas to inhibit vision and permanently screw up sensors.

Welding rig.  Not the cutter torch, this is the thing that JOINS the metal plates./armor plates, lays a bead at melee ranges and on a critical hit can damage actuators or paralyze limbs...but god the heat load...(also requires ammunition, aka 'welding rod or wire-feed')

[Jeyar123]

*slap face* - mech helmet.

Mech punk jacket (with spikes).

I almost said mech scale atl-atl, but that seems too likely to require more agility than the mech has.

On the other hand since we have the flail, why not the chakram (basic throw only) and myomer launched slingshots...

Oops - industrial equipment. Oddly enough maybe an exosuit? I mean stories like "the mech touch" have mech inside mechs so...

Mech harness pulling a mech wagon - free the hands.

You know, Building a city INSIDE a mech scale Warehouse picker would be terrifying to anyone who entered without destroying it first. Those things can take out a forklift already.  :o

I suppose mech scale forklifts would be silly, but is SO close to allowing me something that can do a charge with horn looking things on it.  >:D

You know, looking at some of the special environment rules, maybe an expansion of the ESD suit to environmental defence may be better, even with enc. slowing you down.

Large towel to safely scrape off enemy BA? No don't do the dance!

I love the mech scale sand bags. They really do sound good. :thumbsup:

Shovel was already out too, keep cycling back to it as so useful in different situations.

The mech scale duct tape too, its too useful in odd ways. Mech are weirdly weak in a way vs. the pull strengths of ropes and fabrics.

Saw another with hammer earlier too now. Didn't mean to miss it then.

Mech ladder - I've been trapped in pits (and trapped others) too often. If a world is known for broken terrain, and I have too much of my force without jump jets, it may be better to have a unit dedicated to moving this than attacking.

Had a terrible image involving mech scale packing peanuts, so should probably just quit now.

[ANS Kamas P81]

\
Had a terrible image involving mech scale packing peanuts, so should probably just quit now.

The static electricity from that much styrofoam could kill...

[RifleMech]

With the net, I'd go with the Mech throwing distances. The larger the net the greater chance of entangling a mech or capturing a vehicle. The chance of success would be some kind of formula of who's piloting skill is greater vs chance of entanglement. There'd also need to be modifiers for size and motive type. It'd be easier to catch a hover vehicle than a tracked vehicle or a light mech with a large net vs an assault mech with a small one.

For the knife, I'd just go with the retractable blade minus the retraction mechanism. I wouldn't give any bonuses to finished products though. Not unless you're trying for a mech scale carving.

Wheelbarrows. The Chinese one is pretty cool. There's also a wheelbarrow with two wheels in the middle, one on each side but I'm not sure what it's called. I would build them as trailers. European types would depend on the mechs lifting capacity. The Chinese types would be double that. Single wheels would also have a Piloting skill modifier if they're not balanced.

[Grand_dm]

I think a Car Crusher is in order. From Wikipedia:

A car crusher is an industrial device used to reduce the dimensions of derelict (depreciated) cars prior to transport for recycling.

Historically, because scrap cars were too big and bulky to transport to the sites that turned them into reusable material, and the cost to transport them was uneconomical because, at times, it would cost more to send it than the car was worth, because transportation costs were determined by weight. Since uncrushed cars were less dense and took up more space, even for a short haul, the scrap cars were worth less than it cost to deliver them.

Cars can be crushed either dropping heavy weights onto them, using an excavator bucket or mechanical grab, but these means can be time consuming and produces inconsistent scrap sizes, which necessitates the need for a dedicated machine. Some scrap yards, still employ these more rudimentary methods where they do not own a dedicated car crushing machine.

A mobile version was invented in the 90s.

I think this would be a cool way to wreck vehicles even in combat.

[idea weenie]

I think a Car Crusher is in order. From Wikipedia:

A car crusher is an industrial device used to reduce the dimensions of derelict (depreciated) cars prior to transport for recycling.

Historically, because scrap cars were too big and bulky to transport to the sites that turned them into reusable material, and the cost to transport them was uneconomical because, at times, it would cost more to send it than the car was worth, because transportation costs were determined by weight. Since uncrushed cars were less dense and took up more space, even for a short haul, the scrap cars were worth less than it cost to deliver them.

Cars can be crushed either dropping heavy weights onto them, using an excavator bucket or mechanical grab, but these means can be time consuming and produces inconsistent scrap sizes, which necessitates the need for a dedicated machine. Some scrap yards, still employ these more rudimentary methods where they do not own a dedicated car crushing machine.

A mobile version was invented in the 90s.

I think this would be a cool way to wreck vehicles even in combat.

If you have time and available space to bring a mobile car crusher to a fight location, that means the opponent cannot oppose you for a decent period of time.  I'd also assume you are a raiding force, where your technicians don't have enough time to strip the vehicles for useful components.

In that case I'd expect your force to use Small Lasers or similar energy weapons to just melt and destroy the vehicles, or a jumping Mech to 'Mario' the captured vehicles.

Car crushers might be more efficient in terms of power used per vehicle destroyed, but they would be slower and less flexible than an array of weak lasers.

You also have to consider that car crushers are working on civilian vehicles that have relatively little internal structure, compared to an armored vehicle.  Consider how effective would a car crusher be vs a Bradley

[Grand_dm]

You also have to consider that car crushers are working on civilian vehicles that have relatively little internal structure, compared to an armored vehicle.  Consider how effective would a car crusher be vs a Bradley

In the 31st century, I would hope they would crush one easily.

[RifleMech]

I think a Car Crusher is in order. From Wikipedia:

(snip)

I think this would be a cool way to wreck vehicles even in combat.

Wouldn't that be Mech steps on vehicle?

[Jeyar123]

What about industrial rollers? Even the cheep ones at work can support multiple tons (somehow) without collapse. Even better you hit a button and everything locks in place (red button cuts all power). Scale it up and make it remotely controlled and when an ally walks across it has friction, but an enemy has to fend against vectored rolling underneath, random low friction or maybe button mash special.

Ball bearings on concrete may be cheaper, but these are contained and allow for ally getting out of a jam.
-------
Also I keep getting an image in my head of those slaughterhouse hooks and mechs on them, but I can't see how to make it work...

[RifleMech]

What about industrial rollers? Even the cheep ones at work can support multiple tons (somehow) without collapse. Even better you hit a button and everything locks in place (red button cuts all power). Scale it up and make it remotely controlled and when an ally walks across it has friction, but an enemy has to fend against vectored rolling underneath, random low friction or maybe button mash special.

Ball bearings on concrete may be cheaper, but these are contained and allow for ally getting out of a jam.
-------
Also I keep getting an image in my head of those slaughterhouse hooks and mechs on them, but I can't see how to make it work...

Would rollers be like the big conveyor belts used to unload dropships? Other than loading and unloading faster, I'm not sure how they could be used.

With the slaughter house hooks the mechs could be in side a building or cave/tunnel system with the hooks moving about on the ceiling. Like a lift hoist. Roll to see if the mech of vehicle hits one. If it does, roll again to see if it gets hooked, damaged, or no effect. If hooked, next turn roll again to see it unhooked. Repeat until free.

[Grand_dm]

Wouldn't that be Mech steps on vehicle?

A super-sized piece of industrial equipment designed to crush things could still exist.