Classic Battletech RPG vs. A Time of War

[FLAKPANZER]

My gaming group sat down this last weekend to make up characters for our upcoming campaign, and four hours into A Time of War, we realized it was probably going to take us another game session (4 more hours) to finish.

Is the Classic Battletech RPG any simpler?

Which game integrates better with the tabletop game?

How can I find out what products are compatible with the Classic Battletech RPG?

What are the main difference between the Classic RPG and A Time of War?

[Atlas3060]

D10s, weapons damage, and life module results are the main differences from what I remember.
MW3RPG aka the CBT:RPG used D10s for some rolls and actually had results you rolled for in the life modules.
Problem with that was you may want a Mechwarrior but you also risk making a one armed blind warrior who contracted a "disease" on a trip to Canopus and washed out.
Also damage was a base penetration value then you rolled randomly for damage instead of the set value in AToW.

Integration-wise with the board game it wasn't too friendly.

AToW uses D6 just like the Total Warfare game and doesn't give you rolls for life modules.

I remember a reviewer named Iron Liz looked over all the Battletech RPGs and gave her assessment from a non BT player. I'm not sure if these vids help, but they do provide some overview of certain sections.
A Time of War video review

CBT:RPG video review

[monbvol]

AToW was designed from the ground up to integrate better with the standard board game.

As to which is simpler and easier to run?

For my money AToW by a long shot.  Character creation may seem more daunting in AToW but once I wrapped my head around it I got good enough to pump a character out in under an hour using module build with a minimum of four modules.  It took me a lot longer before I got a character out with CBT:RPG in under an hour.  I'm still not sure I ever actually did it right and those events rolls were pretty imbalanced.  Once character creation is finished though it is a lot easier to sort out how to do certain things.  Sure I may have a whole thread on alternatives to handle certain things a bit better than AToW does but my list would still be largely the same for CBT:RPG with only a few mechanical differences.  AToW as a pure XP point buy system at it's heart is also a lot easier to come up with new modules, factions, and other such content for.

CBT:RPG isn't really a bad product but I do have more trouble defending it simply because I have full heartedly made the switch to AToW.  Finding supplements isn't impossible and some of those expansion books got even worse in the imbalance of their event rolls.

In our group we tend to tell the story of a player who wanted to play an honest cop to illustrate how wonky those event rolls just in the core book could get.  When he started rolling for events and wound up in prison.  A lot.  So much so he gave up and decided his character was a serial killer instead.

[Atlas3060]

AToW and CBT:RPG have similar character construction rules. Both even have point based character creation options for faster creations, but less well rounded unless you make it happen.
The main thing I like about AToW over the earlier version is the lack of wound system. Combat was horrible to play out in CBT:RPG. Yes AToW does have hit points and is more brutal, but at least it is simplier. The other thing I liked was ditching the event rolls for character creation as monbvol stated it was more hazardous to your character than the GM's whims.

[Freefall357]

The main thing I like about AToW over the earlier version is the lack of wound system. Combat was horrible to play out in CBT:RPG. Yes AToW does have hit points and is more brutal, but at least it is simplier.

I rather liked the wounds/hit locations...but it certainly was complicated.

The other thing I liked was ditching the event rolls for character creation as monbvol stated it was more hazardous to your character than the GM's whims.

LOL!
I liked them, but you really did end up just re-rolling all of the "Now you have no left arm!" rolls.

[HABeas2]

Hello,

My gaming group sat down this last weekend to make up characters for our upcoming campaign, and four hours into A Time of War, we realized it was probably going to take us another game session (4 more hours) to finish.

A simple recommendation regarding character creation: The Life Modules are not required; if you wish for faster character design, we might recommend the optional Points-Only character design approach indicated on pp. 51 and 89, AToW. (IronLiz's otherwise-excellent review missed that option, but given the Points-Only rules' proportionate size and the passing note that it may be best for key NPCs rather than PCs, it's easily overlooked.)

As to differences:
* As noted, the dice mechanics were reset to 2D6, to aid in compatibility with the tabletop wargame. For familiarity with veteran role-players, AToW refers to all modifiers as "roll modifiers", however, while TW and the other tactical rules refer to "target numbers" or "to-hit" numbers. Because the mechanics are designed for compatibility, this is only a semantic issue; a +1 to-hit modifier in TW translates to a -1 roll modifier in AToW play.
* As noted, Random Life Event effects are dropped from character creation. Also dropped were a number of redundant or unbalanced Life Paths, in favor of a more streamlined approach.
* The Skills and Traits from CBT: RPG were massively simplified between AToW and CBT: RPG (There were about 96 Skills and 92 Traits in CBT: RPG; AToW has 51 Skills and 56 Traits). Most of those dropped from CBT: RPG were actually redundancies merged into other character features or eliminated entirely for balance purposes.
* As noted, the Damage to Wounds system was simplified, eliminating the indirect character damage method of CBT: RPG, though the result is not only more streamlined, but deadlier (hence "lethality reduction" options were added).
* Comment: Hit locations rules were retained in AToW as an optional rules effect. See pp. 190-191, AToW
* AToW includes a tactical addendum intended to further integrate RPG-scale combat with tactical (Total Warfare) combat. Also incorporated are advanced rules for vehicular combat which produces a hybrid form of the discontinued BattleTroops and Solaris Rules systems.
* Virtually all personal equipment featured in previous CBT:RPG sourcebooks have been faithfully carried over in the core AToW rulebook. Only the most extreme examples (such as Manei Domini-style implant technologies) were left out.

Game Support - At present, AToW is the main rulebook for role-playing. All sourcebooks identified as Era Reports or Era Digests incorporate role-playing support compatible with AToW, to enable adventure play in those settings. The A Time of War Companion, a supplemental RPG rulebook, is slated to come out later this year.

Hopefully, that all helps.

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
  BattleTech
  Catalyst Game Labs

[Freefall357]

Hello,

* As noted, the dice mechanics were reset to 2D6, to aid in compatibility with the tabletop wargame. For familiarity with veteran role-players, AToW refers to all modifiers as "roll modifiers", however, while TW and the other tactical rules refer to "target numbers" or "to-hit" numbers. Because the mechanics are designed for compatibility, this is only a semantic issue; a +1 to-hit modifier in TW translates to a -1 roll modifier in AToW play.

I LOVE the compatibility.  I think moving CBT to D10 would have been better, allowing for finer granularity, but I imagine that would have been a bear.

* As noted, Random Life Event effects are dropped from character creation. Also dropped were a number of redundant or unbalanced Life Paths, in favor of a more streamlined approach.

I was surprised to not see the option for random events.  Saved for the companion book mayhaps?

* AToW includes a tactical addendum intended to further integrate RPG-scale combat with tactical (Total Warfare) combat. Also incorporated are advanced rules for vehicular combat which produces a hybrid form of the discontinued BattleTroops and Solaris Rules systems.

squeeee  O0


Thank you,

- Adam Carrera
  BattleTech
  Catalyst Game Player




...I see what I did there.

[Atlas3060]

I was surprised to not see the option for random events.  Saved for the companion book mayhaps?

Even if they were considered again it would probably just be used as inspiration for crafting your life story and have no impact on the stats of your character.
If that was the case I'd just recommend fans buy the pdf of the book on Battlecorps.

[monbvol]

I did miss the randomness but not the severity so I came up with some that are compatible with AToW and put a lot of effort into making sure they summed to 0 XP once everything was said and done.  Which reminds me I wanted to fix that last event roll I have that forces the player into certain modules.  I'm not really against it so much but I would like to have it so the end user could just make a note of what they roll for each module then apply the results so the end user doesn't have to flip back and forth to consult the results table.

[ErikModi]

The Events of MechWarrior 3rd were an interesting idea, but ultimately poorly-implemented.  I mean, when you sit down to build a Trueborn Clan MechWarrior, select your Trueborn Creche Early Childhood Life Path, and the first three roll results on the Events table have you washing out of training. . . that's a flaw in the system.  It's certainly realistic to the way Clan warrior training is presented (especially in the Jade Phoenix Trilogy), but hardly fun for a group of player characters, and can only be a nightmare for GM, when he and his group sit down with the idea of creating a group of Clan MechWarriors and end up with a bandit, a parapalegic technician, and a one-eyed Star Colonel.  I'd hate trying to run that mess.

In addition, MechWarrior 3rd simply had WAY too many skills.  There's frankly no need for Gunnery/Humanoid/Ballistic, Gunnery/Humanoid/Laser, and Gunnery/Humanoid/Missile.  We never got to run the game, but my friends and I had planned a MechWarrior campaign, where my character concept was best defined as Jame Bond in a BattleMech.  Getting all the skills I felt a FedCom secret operative would require to just fundamentally do his job resulted in a skills list two pages long, and ridiculously small bonuses to all of them.  I haven't tried recreating that character in AToW yet, but it at least looks possible this time around.

[Skyth]

If you want simplicity, just go with MW2 in my opinion.

[ckosacranoid]

Or you could go with Mech warrior 1st if you really want to go old school. 2nd gets very easy to make chararters. But it can get munhlink power levers very quickly though. never run 1st, but read thought the book many time. I have run many 2nd game though. not bad and easy to run and play. 3rd sucked, not a fan of it at all. 4th read once, need to look at it again though.

[Freefall357]

The Events of MechWarrior 3rd were an interesting idea, but ultimately poorly-implemented.  I mean, when you sit down to build a Trueborn Clan MechWarrior, select your Trueborn Creche Early Childhood Life Path, and the first three roll results on the Events table have you washing out of training. . . that's a flaw in the system.

it is...until you realize you can re-roll...keep the effects for truly random characters, or reroll any derailing events if you have something specific in mind.
It is just like with AToW's ability to make a super OP mechwarrior right out of the gates.  If you don't want boring broken games, just don't do it.  Self-regulate.
I think that having two options for the negatives would have been nice.  One that keeps you in the path and the other being the "lolz, you have lost limb 3 now!" events.
In any event, I think they did a brilliant job with AToW.  I loved MWRPG for what it was, and AToW stayed true to it, while making it better.

[Deadborder]

CBTRPG: You want to create a Clan Mechwarrior. What you get is a one-eyed pirate frycook with a substance abuse problem and a love of 23rd Century Korean Opera.

AToW: You want to create a Clan Mechwarrior. What you get is a Clan Mechwarrior.

I know which I prefer. I've allways hated Random Lifepath tables, and their implementation in CBTRPG struck me as particularly bad. That they also meant clogging up every sourcebook with a bucket of more particularly bad tables only made it worse.

[Freefall357]

CBTRPG: You want to create a Clan Mechwarrior. What you get is a one-eyed pirate frycook with a substance abuse problem and a love of 23rd Century Korean Opera.

AToW: You want to create a Clan Mechwarrior. What you get is a Clan Mechwarrior.

I know which I prefer. I've allways hated Random Lifepath tables, and their implementation in CBTRPG struck me as particularly bad. That they also meant clogging up every sourcebook with a bucket of more particularly bad tables only made it worse.

Really? I got a clan mechwarrior in both cases <two stars worth>...though I kinda wish I got that frycook from the description :D

[ErikModi]

it is...until you realize you can re-roll...keep the effects for truly random characters, or reroll any derailing events if you have something specific in mind.
It is just like with AToW's ability to make a super OP mechwarrior right out of the gates.  If you don't want boring broken games, just don't do it.  Self-regulate.
I think that having two options for the negatives would have been nice.  One that keeps you in the path and the other being the "lolz, you have lost limb 3 now!" events.
In any event, I think they did a brilliant job with AToW.  I loved MWRPG for what it was, and AToW stayed true to it, while making it better.

Yeah, you can reroll. . . by making it progressively more expensive to buy Edge.  It still ends up punishing the unlucky and rewarding the lucky.  Which one could argue all RPG systems do to some extent, thanks to the very nature of rolling dice, but a clever and determined player can usually overcome the effects of bad dice rolls in-game.  Even in games like D&D, where attribute rolls can saddle you with a less-than-optimal character, you can still play more or less the same character you sat down to play at the start of character creation.  MechWarrior 3rd, or CBT:RPG, could very quickly make playing the character concept you had when you started extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible.

[Freefall357]

Yeah, you can reroll. . . by making it progressively more expensive to buy Edge.

Those terrible results may very well have been put in JUST for that reason [a -EDG factor].


You could also say "Noo, I want a mech warrior!" and flat out ignore the rolls that would prevent you from making one.

*Roll*
you wash out of training
"no I don't; *free reroll*"

It is your game, play it how it suits you.

[ErikModi]

At that point, you're not arguing the merits of the system, your arguing the merits of how many rules your GM will allow you to ignore.

[Freefall357]

At that point, you're not arguing the merits of the system, your arguing the merits of how many rules your GM will allow you to ignore.

I guess my first part would be the argument..the second part is just a fix that would not cause any real problems.

[Atlas3060]

Then just use points system from either CBT:RPG or AToW.

[Freefall357]

Then just use points system from either CBT:RPG or AToW.

Just not the same *shrug*...randomness can be entertaining.  If I started to miss it [I haven't yet], it would be easy enough to convert the ones from CBTRPG.