Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes

[worktroll]

Those who frequent the Minis forum know I like making combined arms units - typically battalion-sized. So this means I have on the order of 58 companies of infantry in all shapes - foot, mechanised, motorised, BA, etc.

Leaving BA aside for the moment, I'd like to get people talking about their actual in-game use & experience with infantry. Barring Weirdo's games, we've got (I think) 3 basic types:

1) Foot infantry, either legging it, or with transport
2) Motorised infantry
3) Mechanised infantry

Infantry have some apparent benefits when used as pre-positioned spotters, when used in urban or congested terrain, or as objectives (eg. "take  a building"). But what I want to hear is what you who've used them think. When did they work? What's key to successfully using them? What's fun about using them?

And side issues - battle taxi, or IFV? Etc.

Looking forward to a lively discussion!

W.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I once used a pair of Rifle Infantry to utterly cripple an Atlas.  Ambushed it where it couldn't move away easily and started making Leg Attacks until I critted both hips.  Good times.

[Daryk]

Since no one else only one person has answered yet, I suppose I'll go first second with my recommendations.

1) Squad deployment.  No, really.  The +1 to be hit and ability to be EVERYWHERE is worth it, especially if you're spotting for ANYTHING.

2) Foot infantry aboard real transports.  Every time.  They're universally faster, better armored, and can provide covering fire.  For example: a five ton jeep can carry a squad and have 10 points of armor per side.

3) Infantry armor.  It's cheaper than you think.  Divisor 2 armor is in three places in AToW: Davion and Lyran Armor Jackets, and Ballistic Plate Vests.  All three don't slow you down, and make you much harder to kill.

4) Long range Standard Secondary Weapons and Auto Rifles for everything else.  This gives you the best combination of range, damage and mobility.  An Intek Laser Rifle costs no more than a standard Laser Rifle, and gives you 3/6/9 range in any era.  Mark XX ER Laser Rifles give you a trifle more damage, but for a lot more money.

5) Squad Size.  Check it out.  Taurians (and anyone else your GM allows) can have 10 troopers per squad.  This makes the most use of Support Weapons at minimum cost.  Conversely, if you go with 5 or 6-trooper squads, you can get more squads per platoon, and thus more bang for your spotting buck.

EDIT: MLO4H posted while I was typing this...

[Wolf72]

I don't get to play much (like not a lot, maybe come end of KS that might change).

Anyway I like to create/have 30-man platoons ... totally fill out that 3 tons of compartment space.  I've designed a number of 10 ton and under transports (love using class 10 and 40 engines).

Have to look up more on infantry body armor.

[Col Toda]

You missed Jump Infantry .  I like to break up Mob units with either SRM Tear Gas type 1 chemical  and rifle jump infantry w rubber bullets . Between year gas and Sniper modifiers just about guarantees  the break up of the mob unit w/o a war crime trial invitation  . Rifle infantry at check points ect .

[Mendrugo]

I like using infantry in conjunction with fortifications.  McCarron's Armored Cavalry is my bible for this purpose, and I love breaking out my turrets, bunkers, walls, and towers to make miniature Maginot lines for 'Mechs to assault.  Infantry are integral both for manning the turret guns and for defending/investing the fortifications.  When an emplacement gets a "weapons destroyed" result, but the crew lives, I usually have them exit and try to get to a bunker that received a "weapons fine and dandy, crew killed" result, hopefully putting it back into the fray.

I typically use a separate interior map (the one from TSR's Marvel Secret Wars) for fights if/when attacking infantry breach the tunnel complex and start a room-to-room battle, breaking out the old BattleTroops rules.

[Colt Ward]

I have been using a pair of 3 gunner Clan Mech Inf LRM Points in our Invasion era Tournament.  They avoid some of the damage from AI weapons and have been scooting around with my Dire Wolf Widowmaker- they pretty much keep up with Natasha.  They are a pair of SRM10s that screen the assault mech.  When she  hammers down mechs with split fire (2 cLPL at one mech, UAC/20, ERPPC & ERML at another) they follow up with their infantry LRMs to peck at the open locations . . . its nice b/c the Widowmaker does not really have a crit-seeker weapon, and unlike Elementals they do not run out of ammo (in BT scale).

I have also had a opposing heavy mech walk around a hill  to find itself within 10 hexes of a RAC/5 platoon . . . BRRRRRAPPPP.  With a UAC/5 platoon right next to it . . . Ba-Boom.  Unfortunately scattered over the armor and they did not hit the opening it made in the torso.

Finally, in a MM campaign I used Jump infantry squads as SAR for ejected mechwarriors in a long range raid.  I cannot remember if it was a Wasp, Stinger or some other low level light that had been salvaged by the militia my mercs were supporting/training, but it got hammered . . . and when the pilot ejected after falling to a long range shot, the SAR Jump squad swooped in on . . . a Ferret?  They jumped free, got to the pilot and sped off to a LZ where they could load back on the VTOL to escape.  Green rebel militia mechwarrior got some more experience, mission was accomplished, and the downed pilot was recovered to fight again if they salvaged another mech, or someone died in the hotseat.

[Daryk]

I really think TPTB (or TPTW, at least) erred in chopping a squad off Jump Platoons vice chopping a Trooper off each Squad.  A six-Trooper Jump Squad fits into one ton, which is the bog standard compartment for "Squads" (up to TEN foot sloggers).  At this point, I know that would require a MASSIVE retcon, but it really makes more sense.

[Colt Ward]

Eh, organization can be whatever you want for infantry IMO.  The 28/21/25 man platoons does not work for how the Marians do it.  Does it work for ComStar infantry Level 1s?

I know I reorganized my merc's infantry after getting into a real city fight (6x6 BT maps) of 48 blocks by 48 blocks and running into concentrating firepower- keep lances together where at least 2 can fire on both streets- left a lot of holes for enemy troops to try to bypass.  Three squads of BA did not offer much coverage, and even the limited light vehicles I had could not screen the flanks.  A mess of a running fight let a lance or so of mechs, vehicle company and nearly two mechanized/motorized infantry companies escape . . . I had medium mechs running over to that side of the map trying to slow down the escape convoy so my heavies could get into range, the medium lance got a bit chewed up.  I instead shifted to 44 man platoons- four 10 man platoons and a 4 man command section (CO, 2 RTO & 1SG) for organization.

Anyone use the CQB type rules for buildings?

[Daryk]

No, it doesn't work for ComStar (which is how I found out 6-Trooper Jump Squads fit into a ton).

[Colt Ward]

Well, to be fair . . . no unit is ever really 100% . . . a jump infantry platoon that is at 85% strength is still combat ready . . . and now you have your three 6 man squads.  Or if you want to be 100%, you can still have three 6 man squads with a 3 man command (CO/RTO/FO) section.

[Daryk]

True, but transport is still wacky.

[Colt Ward]

Sure, but its going to be that way when we are using weight to actually describe volume.

[Daryk]

By wacky, I mean your APCs (including Ferrets) have one-ton infantry compartments, while 7-Trooper squads weigh more than that.

[Colt Ward]

Well, I think real world practice carries over here . . . really you do not want to be putting a platoon into a combat transport.  Chinook that is not dropping on the frontlines?  Ok . . . everyone else piles in Huey or M113 to get up to the battle line.

[Daryk]

True, but four Ferrets with a Jump Squad each makes more sense than four Ferrets with four partial squads does, especially since only two can disembark in the same hex.

[Sartris]

Sure, but its going to be that way when we are using weight to actually describe volume.

Cargo in the btu is all properly dense liquid until observed disembarked

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Cargo in the btu has mass but no volume.

[Daryk]

Cargo in the btu is all properly dense liquid until observed disembarked

Except that the first disembarkation will result in a squad and a fraction, and won't be a full platoon until the next turn...  ???

[Retry]

Those who frequent the Minis forum know I like making combined arms units - typically battalion-sized. So this means I have on the order of 58 companies of infantry in all shapes - foot, mechanised, motorised, BA, etc.

Leaving BA aside for the moment, I'd like to get people talking about their actual in-game use & experience with infantry. Barring Weirdo's games, we've got (I think) 3 basic types:

1) Foot infantry, either legging it, or with transport
2) Motorised infantry
3) Mechanised infantry

There's Jump Infantry as well.

Infantry have some apparent benefits when used as pre-positioned spotters, when used in urban or congested terrain, or as objectives (eg. "take  a building"). But what I want to hear is what you who've used them think. When did they work? What's key to successfully using them? What's fun about using them?

Spotters and urban terrain is definitely their best use.  They can also work pretty well at holding a position if you dig them into a forest, if you have the engineers to do that.  Unless someone's fielding artillery.  Using them successfully does obviously depend on knowing how to use them, but also depends on what the other side has.  If they're loaded with artillery cannons for some reason, there's really not much of anything you can do no matter how good with Infantry you are.  It can be satisfying to fell a Dire Wolf with a couple well-placed infantry squads.

Unfortunately, infantry in TW scale is rather one-dimensional.

The absolute top echelon of non-field gun infantry basically consists of 3 weapon loadouts: Mauser IIC equipped "Light" Infantry, and long-ranged (all of which are Energy) support weapon equipped "Heavy" Infantry (whose primary weapon is probably going to be Mauser IICs), and "TAG" Infantry.

If you're more interested in "bang for your buck" than raw high-tech power you can take Daryk's suggestion and shove 2 Inteks onto an auto-rifle squad to get all the Intek's range and most of the Auto Rifle's damage.  Because of the quirky way TW handles conventional infantry, that results in a far cheaper (in C-Bills) squad with around double the damage of pure Inteks for essentially the same BV.  You can accomplish similar ridiculousness by mounting long-ranged primaries and one high-damage secondary (Rival the range and damage of Mauser IICs with primary Inteks and a secondary Heavy Grenade launcher with an "innovative" two-man squad size for half the BV and a sliver of the Mauser's cost?  Sign me up.)

Other than that there's not a whole lot of "innovation" in infantry design.  You pick a motive system, and then range+damage based on primary and secondary weapon picks, add armor kits if you have them.  That's about it.  And they all deal their damage the same way: 2 point groups and standardized range brackets.  So the Infantry end up being pretty bland with not much variation in between.  The specials don't really change the equation much: The Infantry AA is useless, you're not using Needlers regularly on the Tabletop (in TW anyways), Burst can be nice but often you're just better off getting a more powerful weapon.  The fire weapon special can be nice sometimes.

If you're just tossing a few squads for your forces or the OPFOR it's not something you'll probably notice or mind.  But the more infantry heavy you want to go, the more you'll notice it.  I've been working on an infantry system that's more interesting, but that's for another thread.

Sure, but its going to be that way when we are using weight to actually describe volume.

Cargo in the btu has mass but no volume.

Cargo in the btu is all properly dense liquid until observed disembarked

The weight of the BT infantry bays go to a dimensional transcendence device and makes them bigger on the inside a la TARDIS, change my mind

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

No, I'm pretty sure that that's the way it works.

[Colt Ward]

I would say you load in a can of infantry and pop the top to get troopers.

But its infantry . . . you load in a keg, open the tap, and suddenly infantry appear.  Its Military Magic I tell you.

[Scotty]

Infantry are excellent ground control in platoon strength.  In built up terrain with short sightlines, you can prevent enemy units from engaging your infantry before they get into range, and make close quarters maneuvering dangerous.

When built-up terrain isn't an option, your infantry are unlikely to be a priority target if you have armor or 'Mechs in the same engagement.  You should still never put them in clear terrain (which doubles damage taken; always take woods or the ubiquitous rough terrain that no one ever seems to want to actually be in otherwise) but infantry is easy to 'hide in plain sight'.  The big anti-infantry weapons are (until the 3060s) universally short ranged weapons, while anti-infantry weapons with longer range are either at significant opportunity cost (Fragmentation missiles for SRMs) in terms of loadout or in terms of better targets (plasma).

If you have entrenched positions field guns are an excellent choice, especially longer ranged light caliber autocannons, which plays into the above.  Good fields of fire can put out significant firepower downrange at a fraction of the cost of the number it tanks it would take to do the same thing.  Losing troopers loses you guns, though, so make sure you have something that can take the heat.

Individual infantry squads do little enough damage and have a significant enough penalty on swarm/leg attack rolls that I don't have much of a use for them; as such, having transports that can handle at least the 3 tons for a foot platoon (if you're not bringing self-propelled motorized or mechanized infantry) is a must.  Anything that can transport a battle armor squad can handle a foot platoon, so it's possible to swap 1:1 if you already have the transports handy.

[Sartris]

Except that the first disembarkation will result in a squad and a fraction, and won't be a full platoon until the next turn...  ???

Reconstituting too many humans in one space had unpredictable consequences

[Daryk]

Heh... they become Schrodinger's platoon for that turn... there and NOT there at the same time...  ^-^

As far as Field Guns, Artillery Cannons (as opposed to regular Artillery) can be good choices.  Thumper Artillery Cannons reach out to 15 hexes and are only 10 tons for 5 points of AoE damage.  Long Tom Artillery Cannons reach out to 20 hexes and are 20 tons for 20 points of AoE WITH R1 for 10 more to the surrounding hexes.

[BloodRose]

Infantry make great ambushers or a solution to That Guy who brings nothing but Gausszillas and Discofridges. There is not much I can add to what the others have said except get creative.
Think about how you can transport them, where you can drop them in and how you can make the most out of them. entrench infantry in cover, place fieldguns with defiladed fields of fire. Drop a bunker in with a platoon of LRM infantry and then surround it with minefields 3 hexes out. Your opponent wants to shift those infantry? Tough shit, now hes got to walk through a minefield to get them. Oh and those fieldgun platoons? They are positioned to provide overlapping covering fire to the bunkers. Good luck getting close enough to burn them out now.
Whats that? There is a mcguffin to grab and you have to get it soon? 'light infantry' rifle platoon in Karnovs or some other VTOL transport zip in and grab it, dropping some damage o his units whilst they are at it. Need to secure a forward position? Send in the airborne with some gunships as support, they can hold out until your main units get there.
Opponent secured his flanks with a deep river? Well good thing you brought hoversled mounted infantry isnt it?
Fighting through a city? Your infantry mousehole through the buildings and crawl the sewers and drains to pop up all over the place to blast him with SRM's whilst platoons equipped with heavy mortars drop fire from somewhere the block over.
What, hes using mines and you didnt bring any anti-mine missiles? Send in the engineers!
Against superior forces? Use a light mech to bait him into a canyon and then let your infantry open up on both sides.

When used correctly infantry are truly evil. You can be a monster, especially against an enemy who is unprepared to deal with them and has few, if any, anti-infantry weapons.

[Pooman]

The thing is, infantry are much more common than mechs or tanks. If we're true to canon, infantry should be in almost all battles. But in real life, my group find that infantry (more units, generally) slow the game down  - that's not to say that I don't or won't use infantry, it's just that that most of our games go into the early hours of the morning with mechs and vehicles alone.

[Challenger]

I’ve had great success with foot infantry using Heavy Support Lasers.

Use a ‘battle taxi’ to get into position and then let loose with a potential 20 odd damage per platoon at 15 hexes.

Trick is to ensure they are not left alone. Unsupported infantry are fairly easy to kill, but if you can make your opponent choose between engaging your mechs are killing your infantry they will last much longer.

Challenger

[Col Toda]

Incorporated  in an advancing order of battle to facilitate  salvage operations  .

Police Action break up mobs and such .

LZ perimeter  defense .

Star port Base security .

Area Denial around strategic  targets . Water purification,  power , factories  and large projects like canals and dams  .

Should not see it anywhere  else . I do not play Cappellons so I have no opinion  of how good insurgency units are ?

[Daryk]

Campaign-wise, I usually use infantry as my AsTech pool.  Or rather, I organize my AsTech pool into infantry platoons...