Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun

[Isanova]

Now I'm wondering about using super-heavy tank rules to create a WH40K-esque monster with slabs of archaic armor, a AC-20 in each facing, tons of MGs and the like... sorta something you might see in the middle of Von Strang's world (pre-clan)

[Arkansas Warrior]

You know, reading this article I have a new goal in life. A Hetzer IIC with twin UAC20s.

You can do it at 40 tons with some serious cuts and a major price increase(I ended up using a 100 XLFE, less armor, less ammo), or at 55 tons and be short only a half ton (which becomes a spare half ton if you switch to FF), though with about the same price increase even just using a SFE.

[Welshman]

Okay, so to make it truly a Clan "what were you thinking?", you mount one AC front and one AC rear. :)

"Turret? We don't need no stinking turret..."

[Grantwhy]

There are a couple bits of equipment that I'm surprised haven't turned up on Hetzers yet (officially that is, I suspect there might be some around)

a Gauss Rifle would swap nicely with a AC 20 and allow for plenty of ammo (3 tons) ... that would be a "B" class refit? (maybe ... I'm guessing here). 

and considering that there are plenty of Hetzers in the Periphery I'm shocked there aren't any official Rocket Launcher Hetzer lurking on battlefields, waiting for a 'Mech to walk in front of them.

I'm guessing we will see stats for Rocket Launcher Hetzers before one with Gauss Rifles?

[blitzy]

Other then the AMS vulnerability and that it would sort of not be a Hetzer anymore, a large MML would be a nice swap out for the AC.  Hmmmm, Large MML and stealth armor.. [drool]

[Lorcan Nagle]

Silly thought - pack an AC/20 (or UAC/20 if you have the tech) and an SRM 6 one into a hex for ambush.  The AC makes a hole which fills with SRMs.  And fire a couple of racks of infernos for the laugh.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Switch to a fuel-cell engine and you can kick in an extra four tons of gear; that's enough for a six-pack and ammo to supplement the big gun.  Alternatively, pour all that into AC20 ammunition - and stock way, way up on precision rounds. 

[Isanova]

Switch to a fuel-cell engine and you can kick in an extra four tons of gear; that's enough for a six-pack and ammo to supplement the big gun.  Alternatively, pour all that into AC20 ammunition - and stock way, way up on precision rounds.

What would it cost to upgrade the engine thusly? (I'm still waiting for Heavy Metal to come out updated to TW specs)

Tossing in the ammo bins, an extra ton and a half of armor, and CASE (which is cheap in itself) would make a greatly improved militia unit... particularly with the ammo bins to carry Armor-Piercing ammo, Flichette Ammo AND standard ammo with ease.

(BTW, does two tons of the same type specialty AC-20 ammo make for 5 round or 4 rounds?)

[ANS Kamas P81]

What would it cost to upgrade the engine thusly? (I'm still waiting for Heavy Metal to come out updated to TW specs)

Tossing in the ammo bins, an extra ton and a half of armor, and CASE (which is cheap in itself) would make a greatly improved militia unit... particularly with the ammo bins to carry Armor-Piercing ammo, Flichette Ammo AND standard ammo with ease.

(BTW, does two tons of the same type specialty AC-20 ammo make for 5 round or 4 rounds?)

Four per; each ton counts separately and rounds down.  So it becomes a bit of a derringer, but frankly loading precision ammo in a -20 class is going to do very nasty things.  Maybe have two rounds of AP just in case you come across something big, but I think that's a sweet setup.  Alternatively, an MG in a turret on top with a half a ton of ammo might make a good addition - sure it's 1.5 tons for all that, but half a ton of CASE and then the extra two tons for ammo still makes a great little tank-destroyer.

[sillybrit]

You'd want want to spend more than just 1.5t on that turret: some armor might be a good idea, so you'd only be looking at an extra ton of ammo for the AC. Or, you might as well just go the whole hog and move the AC to the turret as well, instead of adding the extra ammo.

[Isanova]

Four per; each ton counts separately and rounds down.  So it becomes a bit of a derringer, but frankly loading precision ammo in a -20 class is going to do very nasty things.  Maybe have two rounds of AP just in case you come across something big, but I think that's a sweet setup.  Alternatively, an MG in a turret on top with a half a ton of ammo might make a good addition - sure it's 1.5 tons for all that, but half a ton of CASE and then the extra two tons for ammo still makes a great little tank-destroyer.

But adding a turret involves a lot more complicated equipment, maintenance costs, and a structural rebuild instead of just an engine refit.

IMO it's one of the few times it would be worth carrying Flechette ammo... though I'd expect to see these supported by infantry units of course, but one ton (out of six) isn't unreasonable at all. Worst case, if you ran out of all other ammo, it still does 10 damage vs armored targets.

[SCC]

One other thing you can cram into this ride in place of the Doomcanon is a PPC

[Colt Ward]

There are a couple bits of equipment that I'm surprised haven't turned up on Hetzers yet (officially that is, I suspect there might be some around)

a Gauss Rifle would swap nicely with a AC 20 and allow for plenty of ammo (3 tons) ... that would be a "B" class refit? (maybe ... I'm guessing here). 

It exists, it dropped 10 tons, switched to treads powered by a fusion engine and has a light gauss rifle . . . oh, and they decided to call it a Main Gauche.

[FedSunsBorn]

IMO, the  Jagdpanzer II should have gotten a gauss rifle instead of the UAC-20 since the original was well known for it's 7.5 Pak cannon.

[Jim1701]

One other thing you can cram into this ride in place of the Doomcanon is a PPC

Blech!  If you want to do something like that use a Hunter. 

My personal preference would be to replace the AC with as many rocket launchers as I can fit on it and nickname it the Claymore.  Wait for someone to trip over it and then set it off.

[glitterboy2098]

One other thing you can cram into this ride in place of the Doomcanon is a PPC

between the power amplifier and heatsinks, not really an ideal choice. you are basically swapping a 20pt punch at 9hexs for 10pts out to 18. it would be much easier to just swap the AC20 for an AC10 and extra ammo or armor.

i much prefer the guass idea.. straight swap and 24 shots. would make a really nice, fairly low BV and low cost sniper unit.


speaking of other obvious refits.. switching from wheeled to tracked (making it more similar to it's WW2 namesake) would offer greater offroad mobility at the expense of losing the road MP bonus.

[Orin J.]

the Hetzer looks like it stumbled out of the tail-end of WW1 to me. it's more or less a small teepee of armor covering a set of treads and a very big gun. i can very much see this as something the accountants made the engineers rush through as fast as possible, skimping on a number of streamlining processes that might have made it more effective because they wanted it ready for sales yesterday.

that said, it's not too bad to look at in a spartanly utilitarian way. it's simple, it's lines are clean enough, and it has the merits of a big gun. it may not be pretty, but at least it's not stupid looking.

[Jim1701]

between the power amplifier and heatsinks, not really an ideal choice. you are basically swapping a 20pt punch at 9hexs for 10pts out to 18. it would be much easier to just swap the AC20 for an AC10 and extra ammo or armor.

i much prefer the guass idea.. straight swap and 24 shots. would make a really nice, fairly low BV and low cost sniper unit.


speaking of other obvious refits.. switching from wheeled to tracked (making it more similar to it's WW2 namesake) would offer greater offroad mobility at the expense of losing the road MP bonus.

Uh, ground units is ground units.  They all get the bonus on pavement:

Ground vehicles: Ground vehicles moving on pavement may receive a movement bonus of 1 MP, regardless of whether the vehicle uses cruising or fl anking movement. To gain the extra MP, the unit must begin its turn on a paved hex and continue to travel on pavement for the entire Movement Phase.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

the Hetzer looks like it stumbled out of the tail-end of WW1 to me. it's more or less a small teepee of armor covering a set of treads and a very big gun. i can very much see this as something the accountants made the engineers rush through as fast as possible, skimping on a number of streamlining processes that might have made it more effective because they wanted it ready for sales yesterday.

that said, it's not too bad to look at in a spartanly utilitarian way. it's simple, it's lines are clean enough, and it has the merits of a big gun. it may not be pretty, but at least it's not stupid looking.

Actually it is modeled on a WWII tank destroyer/assault gun of the same name.  Though it's namesake was tracked.

[YingJanshi]

Yeah it always looks ugly. Especially when you're staring down the barrel of it's gun!  ;D

[JadeHellbringer]

I love hiding these things in cities to screw with people.  Few things are as fun as a surprise boom-sticking or three.

Bonus points if it's sharing a surprise hiding spot with an SRM carrier. Nothing more fun than surprising an unwary heavy Mech with an AC-20 blast followed by SRM-spam. I caught a Crusader years ago doing this and dropped it in one salvo- and while it was thanks to an ammo hit, even CASE would have meant a crippled Mech. Replace that Crud with a Mad Cat, and it still would have been pretty fouled up. Solid combo for an urban defense force on the cheap if you're overrun by heavy forces- just don't expect them to be overly survivable after the big reveal.

[DoctorMonkey]

the Hetzer looks like it stumbled out of the tail-end of WW1 to me. it's more or less a small teepee of armor covering a set of treads and a very big gun. i can very much see this as something the accountants made the engineers rush through as fast as possible, skimping on a number of streamlining processes that might have made it more effective because they wanted it ready for sales yesterday.

that said, it's not too bad to look at in a spartanly utilitarian way. it's simple, it's lines are clean enough, and it has the merits of a big gun. it may not be pretty, but at least it's not stupid looking.

That's because it's a Quickcell product, designed by accountants, nailed together by "engineers" and died in by 3rd line troops

[ANS Kamas P81]

Bonus points if it's sharing a surprise hiding spot with an SRM carrier. Nothing more fun than surprising an unwary heavy Mech with an AC-20 blast followed by SRM-spam. I caught a Crusader years ago doing this and dropped it in one salvo- and while it was thanks to an ammo hit, even CASE would have meant a crippled Mech. Replace that Crud with a Mad Cat, and it still would have been pretty fouled up. Solid combo for an urban defense force on the cheap if you're overrun by heavy forces- just don't expect them to be overly survivable after the big reveal.

I hereby dub this particular move the Hellbie Parking Ticket.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

I hereby dub this particular move the Hellbie Parking Ticket.

And now I'm recalling the 'No Ticket' scene frorm Indana Jones and the Last Crusade. O0  Also for your traffic enforcement needs the SRM Hetzer half a SRM carrier, faster, and better armored.  Pair them for punching a mech's ticket?

[glitterboy2098]

That's because it's a Quickcell product, designed by accountants, nailed together by "engineers" and died in by 3rd line troops

given he mentioned treads, i think we was referring to the original Hetzer, the Jagdpanzer 38(t)

which was a stopgap product, designed for low cost, hammered together by 'engineers', and died in by 2nd and 3rd line troops.

the original hetzer was intended to replace the Marder III tank destroyer, when it was realized the Jagdtiger and Jagdpanther heavy tank destroyers proved too difficult and expensive to build in numbers. it was a modification of the Panzer 38(t), which was a light infantry support tank designed in 1935 in  Czechoslovakia. the 38(t) was obsolete pretty much from the point it was first built, but got used into the early 40's anyway. after the country was absorbed into nazi germany, the 38(t) saw use in the german army. the Hetzer was a redesign done in 1943-44 to turn it into a self propelled anti-tank gun. the upper hull and turret was removed for a more heavily armored sloped casemate, which was actually remarkably high tech for the time.

[Sami Jumppanen]

Silly thought - pack an AC/20 (or UAC/20 if you have the tech) and an SRM 6 one into a hex for ambush.  The AC makes a hole which fills with SRMs.  And fire a couple of racks of infernos for the laugh.

M-pod.

[E. Icaza]

I've always loved the Hetzer and it's one of my main vehicles when I play with them.  They make great ambush vehicles and generate fear and confusion all out of proportion to their BV.

In the two double-blind scenarios that I've played (both in city terrain), the look on the other player's face when they stumbled into an intersection and discovered that there were two Hetzers, and a pair of SRM carriers in one instance, hidden there was priceless!  In the first instance I mauled a BattleMaster and in the other I obliterated a Dire Wolf, complete with a point of Elementals that it was carrying.

[YingJanshi]

I learned a long time ago: always wear brown pants when playing against these monsters.

I have a similar story to the last post except I was facing the Hetzers. Playing double-blind I ran my Wolfhound around a corner and found myself at point-blank range of two Hetzers. Thankfully the other player whiffed his roles (barely). I jumped out. Worst part of the whole affair was the bill for getting the stains out of my command couch. :)

[Hersh67]

Be glad you *survived* to get that bill!

[Wrangler]

If a XL engine is put into Hetzer to make it faster, would become a Hetzer Express?  ^-^