Author Topic: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er  (Read 151293 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #210 on: 08 December 2019, 18:31:45 »
Golden Century was supposed to be a standard TRO even if smallish b/c I think it was supposed to be a PDF.  Dark Age IndiMechs have appeared in several products already, I am not sure there was ever a plan to make a new exclusive IndiMech TRO.

BA Artillery I think is covered by the normal conventional artillery rules with the provision damage is multiplied by the number of active suits.  BA LBX . . . not really sure, its not like the RS does not give you ranges which is all you need to figure out the difference IMO.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #211 on: 08 December 2019, 20:33:52 »
First thing I enjoy battletech, but i am disappointed that the new Tech Manual is not updated with BA L-BX or BA artillery.   Can someone direct me to where I can get the numbers for BA L-BX and the BA- artillery?

Second, is there any news about XTRO Golden Century and XTRO Dark Age (Industrial Mechs).

BA artillery and LBX are in later printing of TacOps.  On of the reasons I picked up an updated copy.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #212 on: 08 December 2019, 21:45:36 »
First thing I enjoy battletech, but i am disappointed that the new Tech Manual is not updated with BA L-BX or BA artillery.   Can someone direct me to where I can get the numbers for BA L-BX and the BA- artillery?

Both were added to Tac Ops.  Since they were added as errata, you can find their stats in the TO errata document.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #213 on: 09 December 2019, 08:51:53 »
my local distro has neither the map pack or the battlemaps. Did see a shadowrun product I might get, despite my dislike of 6th.

I think--think--the busted link here is that the fulfillment warehouse may not have communicated to distributors that these are products available for order. Therefore, when the distributors provide lists to stores of what's available for them to order, they're not on there. That could be why, on your end, you're standing in front of the clerk at The Troll's Hole in East Waukegan, and they're saying they don't see it on the distributor's list.

(Although, Map Pack: Grasslands should definitely be on there, I know other distributors/stores have been able to stock it. I'd make sure your store is asking their distributor rep to ask the fulfillment center whether it's available.)

This is not necessarily the fault of the fulfillment center--in fact, I think I might know why it's happening. But I'm hampered from doing much to fix it because 1) I'm buried in KS work and 2) this means crawling into the guts of IMR/CGL business operations and I am not an employee, so there are limits to what I'm allowed to do. But I'll see what I can figure out.

Golden Century was supposed to be a standard TRO even if smallish b/c I think it was supposed to be a PDF.  Dark Age IndiMechs have appeared in several products already, I am not sure there was ever a plan to make a new exclusive IndiMech TRO.

FWIW, Golden Century is not dead, but all art assets and then some are tied up in the KS for now. IrregularTech is in my inbox for an edit, but is further down my list--because once I edit it, it'll run into the same art bottleneck. I'd like to see both get released next year, but need to talk with Ray and Anthony about a window when that might be possible.
« Last Edit: 09 December 2019, 08:55:24 by Cubby »
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #214 on: 09 December 2019, 09:03:23 »
Thanks for the update about the missing TROs.  Been waiting for years for them to come out. I know Kickstart was necessary vehicle get more people to buy and play the game, but darn it...now were back to waiting year or so for new stuff again.  :'(
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #215 on: 09 December 2019, 09:26:12 »
but darn it...now were back to waiting year or so for new stuff again.  :'(

...except for the unparalleled pile of new stuff you're getting in March!

I realize there's some previously-announced stuff that's being pushed back, and that's a bummer. But priorities aren't always set by what was announced first.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #216 on: 09 December 2019, 11:38:46 »
...except for the unparalleled pile of new stuff you're getting in March!

I realize there's some previously-announced stuff that's being pushed back, and that's a bummer. But priorities aren't always set by what was announced first.

Is that most of the Clan Kickstarter or different materials??
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #217 on: 09 December 2019, 12:00:47 »
Is that most of the Clan Kickstarter or different materials??

(facepalm)

The Kickstarter. My apologies for not being specific.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #218 on: 10 December 2019, 04:48:47 »
(facepalm)

The Kickstarter. My apologies for not being specific.

Thank you.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #219 on: 10 December 2019, 08:03:12 »
Golden Century was supposed to be a standard TRO even if smallish b/c I think it was supposed to be a PDF.  Dark Age IndiMechs have appeared in several products already, I am not sure there was ever a plan to make a new exclusive IndiMech TRO.

I would love and IndiMech TRO!  I'd love stats on the Dump Truck Mech.  :smitten:



FWIW, Golden Century is not dead, but all art assets and then some are tied up in the KS for now. IrregularTech is in my inbox for an edit, but is further down my list--because once I edit it, it'll run into the same art bottleneck. I'd like to see both get released next year, but need to talk with Ray and Anthony about a window when that might be possible.

I'm glad Golden Century isn't dead and I'm totally thrilled IrregularTech is still alive too!  :smitten:

Out of curiosity, and this might have been asked already so apologies if it has, but has anyone there considered a RAW edition without art, or other units as placeholders?  It seems to work for another company and it would generate interest as it can be used now. And of course the official published edition would have corrections and art.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #220 on: 10 December 2019, 10:06:43 »
Out of curiosity, and this might have been asked already so apologies if it has, but has anyone there considered a RAW edition without art, or other units as placeholders?  It seems to work for another company and it would generate interest as it can be used now. And of course the official published edition would have corrections and art.

It's been suggested before, yes.

And my opinion then and now is that releasing something sub-par simply for the sake of getting it out there is not a viable strategy. The gaming market is just too crowded with product, and those products for the most part are finished, polished publications, not something that looks like a 1980s 'zine. It's possible that such a "raw" TRO" would generate the wrong kind of interest--"god, look at this rag that BattleTech threw out there"--and reinforce the idea of BT as some dated, groggy game. The thing about the new box sets is that that's the art/design/quality bar for future products. We don't want someone buying those, loving the look of the game, and the next thing they get is an artless phonebook in 10-pt font. Our product density (the amount of stuff we make) isn't strong enough to support that. (IMO.)

Also, because the market is so crowded, you can't assume that people will definitely come back for the nice version. One chance to make a first impression, and "hey, we know this looks like garbage, but stay tuned, we'll do it nicer the next time (and charge you again for it)" is a really bad marketing message.

More to the point, it might solve (postpone, really) the art bottleneck, but it wouldn't solve other issues like the need for editing work, at least a rudimentary layout, etc. Those production resources are being consumed by the KS stuff, too. My sense is that the KS is having one good effect of helping deepen our bench in some areas (art especially). But we're not there yet.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #221 on: 10 December 2019, 17:13:20 »
I really respect and appreciate that stance Cubby.  I'd rather pay once for a high quality product.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #222 on: 10 December 2019, 23:37:02 »
True, I don't know if people will come back for a finished version however RAW Editions aren't mass produced books. They're not meant to be sold in the stores. The one's I've gotten have been limited to a couple hundred copies, available only from the game creator. In this case it'd be Catalyst. So it's not like a casual player would pick it up and be unimpressed. And with limited copies made it'd only be the players who really want the book and are willing to buy multiple copies

As for edition, there's a forum here where fans list corrections. I think using fan help like this would end up with a better finished product as all the mistakes have already been corrected.

There is also the time factor, a Raw Edition would allow players to use things, now, instead of waiting for years. Personally, I'd rather have an unfinished product than spend money and wait for years and never get anything.


Now that I think of it, wasn't something like this tried a few years ago?  Buy the early edition PDF and be able to upgrade to the finished edition for free or at a discount? I think it was called a beta version of something? Why not do something similar with these TROs or other long awaited books?

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #223 on: 11 December 2019, 07:50:26 »
Now that I think of it, wasn't something like this tried a few years ago?  Buy the early edition PDF and be able to upgrade to the finished edition for free or at a discount? I think it was called a beta version of something? Why not do something similar with these TROs or other long awaited books?

In this case it seems the reason is that CGL has considered it and decided it's not a good idea for them.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #224 on: 11 December 2019, 09:48:01 »
Now that I think of it, wasn't something like this tried a few years ago?  Buy the early edition PDF and be able to upgrade to the finished edition for free or at a discount? I think it was called a beta version of something? Why not do something similar with these TROs or other long awaited books?

In this case it seems the reason is that CGL has considered it and decided it's not a good idea for them.

What RM is remembering is the Beta for BattleMech Manual from January 2017, where you bought the Beta PDF for (IIRC) $9.99, with the option to do a survey and get $5.00 off something in the CGL store. There was also one done for Interstellar Operations, but I was solely an editor then, and I'm not aware what the discounts or anything might have been for that one.

There was a Closed Beta for MechWarrior: Destiny which was limited to KS backers, so we do still do them. But it's infrequent--and IMO, should remain so.

The problem with CGL doing Betas, or "raw" editions like you're describing, is that they jam up the production pipeline, which already has certain bottlenecks. For instance, with Destiny, we're essentially making the book twice--and on a tight timeline to hit the KS delivery dates. The Beta went through a full edit cycle, a full layout cycle, and had various art produced/reviewed/revised/inserted both for the Beta, and for the final. Now, with the feedback, there's new writing, which needs editing, then it's inserted into the manuscript, which needs re-proofing, and then layout has to at least flow the text in again, but probably a lot more.

That's a justifiable use of resources (both monetary and personnel-bandwidth) when it's a "big" book that you want to get right. The BMM qualified, Destiny qualified (mostly), and for other companies, things like D&D 5th and Pathfinder 2nd were worth doing that way. But to do it for less-impactful products, or to do it frequently, is going to clog the production pipeline terribly.

Personally, I'd rather have an unfinished product than spend money and wait for years and never get anything.

So, it's the second part of that, "wait for years and never get anything," that's what really needs to be addressed and what I feel like the core concern is here. That's the part that many of us involved in producing the game discuss a lot - building an effective, smooth production process so that stuff comes out. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "spend money and wait" (preorders? buying into a game initially?). But the basic sentiment that you want more BattleTech, as frequently and as high-quality as possible, that I 100 pct hear and agree with. If we can knock down that challenge, and you're getting lavishly-illustrated, engaging products a couple times a year to spice up your games...that's where I want to be, too. We shouldn't have to produce half-finished stuff just to get things out to you.


« Last Edit: 11 December 2019, 09:51:11 by Cubby »
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #225 on: 11 December 2019, 10:57:31 »
Didn't the first Combat Manual also have a beta version? I think it might have been the first BT product to do so.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #226 on: 11 December 2019, 11:06:18 »
Didn't the first Combat Manual also have a beta version? I think it might have been the first BT product to do so.

yes

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #227 on: 11 December 2019, 11:08:12 »
A Time of War had the first Beta Version, back in 2009
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #228 on: 11 December 2019, 11:09:57 »
forgot about that one. i've largely chosen to disavow knowing anything from more than a decade ago for the sake of my sanity.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #229 on: 11 December 2019, 12:06:44 »
Ah so. I don't remember AToW having a beta.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #230 on: 11 December 2019, 16:45:08 »
In this case it seems the reason is that CGL has considered it and decided it's not a good idea for them.

Okay. Thanks.


What RM is remembering is the Beta for BattleMech Manual from January 2017, where you bought the Beta PDF for (IIRC) $9.99, with the option to do a survey and get $5.00 off something in the CGL store. There was also one done for Interstellar Operations, but I was solely an editor then, and I'm not aware what the discounts or anything might have been for that one.

There was a Closed Beta for MechWarrior: Destiny which was limited to KS backers, so we do still do them. But it's infrequent--and IMO, should remain so.

The problem with CGL doing Betas, or "raw" editions like you're describing, is that they jam up the production pipeline, which already has certain bottlenecks. For instance, with Destiny, we're essentially making the book twice--and on a tight timeline to hit the KS delivery dates. The Beta went through a full edit cycle, a full layout cycle, and had various art produced/reviewed/revised/inserted both for the Beta, and for the final. Now, with the feedback, there's new writing, which needs editing, then it's inserted into the manuscript, which needs re-proofing, and then layout has to at least flow the text in again, but probably a lot more.

That's a justifiable use of resources (both monetary and personnel-bandwidth) when it's a "big" book that you want to get right. The BMM qualified, Destiny qualified (mostly), and for other companies, things like D&D 5th and Pathfinder 2nd were worth doing that way. But to do it for less-impactful products, or to do it frequently, is going to clog the production pipeline terribly.

I don't remember a survey but I'm probably not remembering right. I'm also not advocating that it be done on something that has a deadline, small things, or everything. That would be a pain. I was just wondering if it could be useful for key products, maybe, and or products that have been in the work for years and look to stay that way for a while. The key products would need testing and checking anyway. The others are so far down the list that a raw or beta edition wouldn't really effect the rest of the schedule.




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So, it's the second part of that, "wait for years and never get anything," that's what really needs to be addressed and what I feel like the core concern is here. That's the part that many of us involved in producing the game discuss a lot - building an effective, smooth production process so that stuff comes out. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "spend money and wait" (preorders? buying into a game initially?). But the basic sentiment that you want more BattleTech, as frequently and as high-quality as possible, that I 100 pct hear and agree with. If we can knock down that challenge, and you're getting lavishly-illustrated, engaging products a couple times a year to spice up your games...that's where I want to be, too. We shouldn't have to produce half-finished stuff just to get things out to you.

I was referring to pre-orders and kickstarters. Pre-orders have lasted years and even been cancelled. Kickstarters have also failed. I'm glad this one seems to be working but I'm still leery of them.

I also don't mean that you, or others, should produce a half finished product just for me. I'm thinking all the players who've been waiting for these products. Maybe I'm not remembering right, but weren't TROs Golden Century and IrregularTech cancelled a few years ago? I'm pretty sure I remember a lot of us being disappointed when told they weren't coming out. I'm also pretty sure we're all thrilled they're not canceled and might be coming out in a couple years. I think a few of us would be happy to pay for a look at a book that won't be out for a few years. But if a raw beta edition isn't workable, that's okay. I just wondered.

As far a frequency of releases and quality of production goes. It'd be great to have products coming out every few months. I know it can take longer than that though. I also know that when it comes out it'll be a quality product. However, there does come a point where waiting with anticipation becomes wondering if it'll come out which eventually becomes, "I'll believe it when I see it." Which turns into, "It came out when?" or "Still not out yet? No surprise." :(

Again, I'm thrilled that these TROs are going to be coming out.  :excited:  That they're still being worked on is a very nice surprise. :) I'm just hoping the wait won't be so long that I get to the last points above.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #231 on: 11 December 2019, 20:50:39 »
I was part of the Combat Manual, IntOps, CamOps, and BattleMech Manual betas as well as the one for Destiny though I wasn't as into that one as the others.

All but Destiny had some discounted price for the beta (not much) but also upgraded to the final version when complete iirc. Except possibly BMM.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #232 on: 12 December 2019, 11:01:26 »
I'm also pretty sure we're all thrilled they're not canceled and might be coming out in a couple years. I think a few of us would be happy to pay for a look at a book that won't be out for a few years.

Years? I sure hope not. I realize it's been years since they were announced, but I really enjoy crossing things off of lists...and I really want to cross these off by the end of next year.

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However, there does come a point where waiting with anticipation becomes wondering if it'll come out which eventually becomes, "I'll believe it when I see it." Which turns into, "It came out when?" or "Still not out yet? No surprise." :(

Total agreement. That's what I'm talking about, when I talk about establishing production pipelines and practices, so that initial excitement doesn't curdle into disappointment or even bitterness just like you describe. My personal opinion is that there are NO points awarded for announcing a thing, only for making and delivering a good thing. It'll take time to establish a solid pipeline and get things in order, but that's the goal.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #233 on: 13 December 2019, 04:28:14 »
Years? I sure hope not. I realize it's been years since they were announced, but I really enjoy crossing things off of lists...and I really want to cross these off by the end of next year.

And I'm really looking forward to getting them. :thumbsup: :excited: :)

Quote

Total agreement. That's what I'm talking about, when I talk about establishing production pipelines and practices, so that initial excitement doesn't curdle into disappointment or even bitterness just like you describe. My personal opinion is that there are NO points awarded for announcing a thing, only for making and delivering a good thing. It'll take time to establish a solid pipeline and get things in order, but that's the goal.


And I think I'm just one of many who hope you not only reach but surpass that goal. That's why I wondered about raw/beta editions. To wet our appetite and keep our anticipation up. But if its not practical or possible, then it won't happen. Oh well. :(  We'll just have to keep waiting for you to cross it off your list. :)
« Last Edit: 13 December 2019, 22:46:37 by RifleMech »

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #234 on: 13 December 2019, 07:52:28 »
In the end i think if seemless process that CGL getting polished and really sought out products it wants to put out is the important thing.

After the TRO3145-Faction-PDFs came out, with it's wonderful records sheets included, it seem like something broke and products stop coming out in that scale. 

I will be glad see that kind energy again, but i am getting bit conservative in my enthusiasm of new products coming out now, waiting see actual thing come out. I think CGL would just hurt itself just putting half-made beta stuff out for sale than finish thing.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #235 on: 13 December 2019, 23:09:57 »
In the end i think if seemless process that CGL getting polished and really sought out products it wants to put out is the important thing.

After the TRO3145-Faction-PDFs came out, with it's wonderful records sheets included, it seem like something broke and products stop coming out in that scale. 

I will be glad see that kind energy again, but i am getting bit conservative in my enthusiasm of new products coming out now, waiting see actual thing come out. I think CGL would just hurt itself just putting half-made beta stuff out for sale than finish thing.

I don't think CGL would hurt itself with a beta. Depending on the beta. I do worry about new products though. I do think older work should be available for purchase and I do think the occasional new product made for the past. New things are always coming to light so its good to keep revisiting the past. But I thought  most of TPTB's attention was going to be moving the timeline forward? Only now we aren't.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #236 on: 16 December 2019, 14:18:42 »
As far a frequency of releases and quality of production goes. It'd be great to have products coming out every few months. I know it can take longer than that though. I also know that when it comes out it'll be a quality product. However, there does come a point where waiting with anticipation becomes wondering if it'll come out which eventually becomes, "I'll believe it when I see it." Which turns into, "It came out when?" or "Still not out yet? No surprise." :(

I've had a few "It came out when?" moments. If I am honest, I don't really follow product announcements or the front page anymore. Once in a while I skim the top of this forum for new product topics, and glance over this thread to see if there is any interesting news.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #237 on: 16 December 2019, 15:38:02 »
Ah so. I don't remember AToW having a beta.

It was called MechWarrior Third Edition.  ^-^
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #238 on: 16 December 2019, 16:55:02 »
Now that I remember.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XV: Pitter Patter Let's Get At'er
« Reply #239 on: 17 December 2019, 03:29:57 »
I've had a few "It came out when?" moments. If I am honest, I don't really follow product announcements or the front page anymore. Once in a while I skim the top of this forum for new product topics, and glance over this thread to see if there is any interesting news.

That's about it for me too. I don't mind being surprised something has come out. I'd just rather not miss something because it'd been so long I gave up looking for it.