Author Topic: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions  (Read 41784 times)

worktroll

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #90 on: 11 August 2011, 01:49:02 »
Well, we can reclaim our original role in the Clans as recon/strike experts. In Klondike, we scouted for the other slower units; it's only later, as the boundaries hardened and Clans stopped cooperating, we became sidelined. Likewise, pack zel is going to make it easier for us to adapt to local fighting styles, and we should also be used to dealing with less-than-stellar equipment by cooperating.

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #91 on: 11 August 2011, 02:31:20 »
I believe the Scorpions do value Recon/Strike more than some other Clans and their history is proud
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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #92 on: 11 August 2011, 13:00:05 »
Aborption is much better than extinction. If they stay with the Scorps, there is hope for everyone.

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #93 on: 12 August 2011, 07:33:17 »
A few statements/questions to get some discussions going:

- Fluffwise: how in effect do they use all those light mechs. 'Lightning raids' and harassment but some more details would be nice.

- In game: How to beat those heavier stars? As even with 2-3 lights versus a far heavier model it can be highly difficult

- Ice Hellion Heavies and Assaults. They have them yet at times I read they'd just trade it in for 2 small ones. In how far is this correct? How large a portion of their forces is heavy or assault? And how are they employed/mixed with the forces.

- Elementals in what quantities and how are they employed?

- Do they rely a lot on airsupport or is this facet somewhat ignored?


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Darthvegeta800

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #94 on: 24 August 2011, 15:18:18 »
Besides the questions of my last post, what's with the constant 'mental unstability' bit attributed to the Hellions. I know we come across as easily angered but still... i can think of other Clans more unstable or agressive even.

Also how would you organize these forces in stars (disregarding leftovers)

- Puma/Adder
- Puma/Adder
- Puma/Adder (annoying how i have 2 big ones and 1 small one)
- Mad Cat / Timber Wolf
- Dragonfly/Viper
- Black Lanner
- Kit Fox / Uller
- Vulture / Mad Dog
- Hellbringer / Loki
- Mist Lynx / Koshi
- Hellion
- Man-o-War / Gargoyle
- Ryoken / Stormcrow
- Solitaire
- Kodiak
- Icestorm
- 5 Elementals
- 5 Centaur Protomechs


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TheOldGuy

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #95 on: 19 September 2011, 17:55:48 »
A few statements/questions to get some discussions going:

- Fluffwise: how in effect do they use all those light mechs. 'Lightning raids' and harassment but some more details would be nice.

- In game: How to beat those heavier stars? As even with 2-3 lights versus a far heavier model it can be highly difficult

- Ice Hellion Heavies and Assaults. They have them yet at times I read they'd just trade it in for 2 small ones. In how far is this correct? How large a portion of their forces is heavy or assault? And how are they employed/mixed with the forces.

- Elementals in what quantities and how are they employed?

- Do they rely a lot on airsupport or is this facet somewhat ignored?

Finally picked up and read WoR. Sigh.

1) The Hellions are not really discussed much at all.  The best resources are the Field Manual Crusader Clans and Operation Klondike, but it doesn't go into to much detail.  When I have time I'll take another look at OK because I remember it discussing some strategy.  The Hellions really boil down to using light mechs as you'd imagine them to be used.  What many people forget is that while the Hellions use lots of lights, they're more focused on "speed" over "weight".  So the Hellions do field lots of heavier mechs (having assault clusters and such), just utilizing faster assaults.  This is where, in my mind, pack zell comes in on a strategic level.  Having such consistently fast units allows the Hellions to bring large amounts of firepower to bear on an isolated target - kind of plays into Khan Montoses' moving Hellion units around in the "shell game".

2) Depends.  If you're facing pulse lasers then you'll be in trouble in more open terrain.  Pulses are the weapon that will always pose trouble for lighter stars.  Otherwise its about using high combat modifiers and mobility to pick on units.  Its legitimately tough to follow Zell (pack zell has never been well explained) and I'll typically break it simply because strict Zell doesn't permit "pack zell" or really much Light vs. Heavy mech fighting.  Strictly speaking, you're opponent should bid down weapons, heat sinks, etc. if you're doing straight 5 on 5 (or whatever fighting).  But realistically, that doesn't play into the advantages gained by lighter, faster, more mobile mechs.  Its a grey area, but if you're Clan you ultimately play to win.

The last 3 questions I can't answer.  I've never heard of them trading heavies/assaults for lighter mechs, if you could point to were you read that it'd be helpful.  It also depends what period you're talking about as I believe FM: Crusader Clans and Operation Klondike has a bit of information (right now my books are in storage).  How Assaults/Heavies are mixed in forces is really going to vary - some units will be mixed and some more homogeneous among weight classes.  Practically, its best to use speed/mobility as the determining factor.

Can't say on Elementals or Air Support (good question for TPTB), but they do field a number as seen by having their own Elemental (the Afreet).  Having fast mechs and elementals are a good mix, so I always field a large number (standard and Afreet).

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #96 on: 19 September 2011, 17:59:41 »
Thanks! Having picked up War of Reaving (skimmed through it and noticed some Hellions have survived possibly Oo;), read Operation Klondike and got the Crusader Clan Sourcebook. It did give me a lot of insight in them.

My force of Ice Hellions is nearing completion. Bar the elementals and protomechs all are painted, awaiting some flocking and decals. :)


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TheOldGuy

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #97 on: 19 September 2011, 20:06:34 »
Thanks! Having picked up War of Reaving (skimmed through it and noticed some Hellions have survived possibly Oo;), read Operation Klondike and got the Crusader Clan Sourcebook. It did give me a lot of insight in them.

My force of Ice Hellions is nearing completion. Bar the elementals and protomechs all are painted, awaiting some flocking and decals. :)

You have them organized into forces yet? 

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #98 on: 19 September 2011, 20:09:11 »
Between WoR and BSD, it's pretyt clear that there were survivng Helion warriors; however, they were pretty much absorbed wholesale into the Falcons and Scorpions, just depending on where they were at the time. Certainly there's no real survving Helion units/groups as such.

With that beign said, Connor Rood is the greaterst Helion ever.
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TheOldGuy

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #99 on: 19 September 2011, 20:33:15 »
Between WoR and BSD, it's pretyt clear that there were survivng Helion warriors; however, they were pretty much absorbed wholesale into the Falcons and Scorpions, just depending on where they were at the time. Certainly there's no real survving Helion units/groups as such.

With that beign said, Connor Rood is the greaterst Helion ever.

Per WoR, at least two units survived, the Lancers (281st?) had some association with the Green Ghosts, and another unit in Castille apparently as a merc company.

Darthvegeta800

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #100 on: 20 September 2011, 04:31:09 »
You have them organized into forces yet?

Ice Hellion ‘Light’ Star:

Ryoken/Stormcrow (medium)
Koshi/Mist Lynx (light)
Hellion (light)
Puma /Adder(light)
Black Lanner (Fast Medium)

Ice Hellion ‘Light’ Star:

Ice Storm (light)
Puma / Adder (light)
Viper/Dragonfly (medium)
Solitaire (light)
Kit Fox / Uller (light)

Ice Hellion ‘Heavy’ Star:

Mad Dog/Vulture (Heavy)
Timber Wolf/Mad Cat (heavy)
Gargoyle/ O War (Assault)
Hellbringer/Loki (Heavy)
Kodiak (Assault)

 Ice Hellion Elemental Star

Centaur Protomech Star


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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #101 on: 09 October 2011, 20:16:51 »
Can anyone tell me the fate of the 78th Hellion Lancers? I can't seem to find their fate in WoR or in BlakeDocs. I'm sure they were destroyed in the JFOZ, but anything more specific?
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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #102 on: 09 October 2011, 21:02:15 »
I haven't seen anything concrete either but my guess would be they fell in the heavy fighting on Evilcer, or right at the end on Vantaa with their Khan.

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #103 on: 16 October 2011, 22:14:09 »
Anyone have any info on what Protomechs the Ice Hellions used?

worktroll

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #104 on: 16 October 2011, 22:49:12 »
My first recollection was "only the crappy ones".

On second thought, "Harpy and Centaur".

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ShockaTime

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #105 on: 16 October 2011, 22:53:09 »
I would imagine they used the Satyr and Roc as well.

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #106 on: 17 October 2011, 04:44:31 »
Satyrs (all three variants), Sirens (all three), Roc 1, Gorgon 2, Minotaur 1 according to the old faction list.
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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #107 on: 17 October 2011, 18:09:52 »
Thanks for the info, gents. I'm going to go with a Point of 3 Satyrs and 2 Siren 2s. (Not looking for power there, just a low BV addition for battle flavour that can keep up with the mechs).

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #108 on: 20 March 2012, 19:36:23 »
Hello.

I picked up an Icestorm and I'm curious as to how the Hellions employ it within the confines of zellbrigen.  You being the Hellion fans of the game, I'd love to get your opinions.  Thanks.

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #109 on: 20 March 2012, 21:22:50 »
Hello.

I picked up an Icestorm and I'm curious as to how the Hellions employ it within the confines of zellbrigen.  You being the Hellion fans of the game, I'd love to get your opinions.  Thanks.

there idea of zell is. . . special. Pack tactics are not unheard of, hit and run is acceptable, and ambushes are ok as well, the rationale being if they are stupid enough to fall into it it is their fault.
« Last Edit: 20 March 2012, 22:14:20 by ShockaTime »

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Takiro

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #110 on: 15 February 2016, 12:09:37 »
Four years since the Hellions got some love!?! Well lets change that up.

I have been working on a fanfic set in the 3050s where the Ice Hellions are still very much around. Studying this oft overlooked and derided Clan I have made some observations which I'd really like to get some comments on.

1. There are no true Keshiks in this Clan. All six of their Galaxies lack a Keshik unit of either trinary or cluster size which other Clans seem to possess. While Attack Clusters are generally the Command Clusters of every Galaxy except in one case they are not formally dubbed Keshiks. There are two places (Alpha Galaxy nickname and the 200th Attack Cluster nickname) were the Keshik designation is present but not in the fashion other Clans use it. So to me this means a few things. One, to quote Starship Troopers "everyone fights". From the highest commanders to the lowest warriors there is nobody hanging back. Certainly this philosophy (very Clan IMO) would lack strategic guidance during engagements but tactically I would expect Hellion forces to act "instinctually" like no other on the battlefield. Also there is an almost "blue collar" workman like comradery in this fighting side by side mentality.

2. There are no unit nicknames at the Cluster level with the exception of the 200th Attack Cluster (Lithe Kill Keshik). This is another almost unique Hellion phenomenon (only mirrored in Blood Spirit) within the Clans who as a rule almost always have nicknames especially among Front Line Clusters. Some Clans do not have nicknames for Second Line Clusters which I understand as lesser units such honors would not be bestowed. I wonder if the Clans follow the SLDF example canonized in that FM which essentially says everyone has a nickname but few are actually endorsed by the First Lord. It seems like the Hellions (and the Spirits) do not honor their Clusters in such a way.

3. Ice Hellion Second Line Galaxy Commanders have no Bloodnames in Field Manual Crusader Clans. Now this is whacky cause according to Clan custom a Galaxy Commander must have earned a Bloodname for such a high post yet none did for the Hellions! So what does this mean? Are all the Hellion Bloodnamed in Front Line service? Eventually Galaxy Commander Eld did earn the Coddington name which is remarked to be an unimpressive Bloodline in FM Updates. That same book also updates all Galaxy Commanders to Bloodnamed status but the question remains for me. Is Line service so prestigious to Hellion Bloodname warriors that they turn down higher Second Line posts to serve at the front? Are Second Line Galaxy Commanders without Bloodnames a common occurrence here? Without a Bloodname are they really Galaxy Commanders or just Senior Star Colonel's acting as commanders??

I've got some more on Unit Types and a Hellion tactic I've been developing but let me here what you think.

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #111 on: 09 April 2019, 05:58:04 »
Good lord, where did all the Hellions go?

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #112 on: 09 April 2019, 06:59:59 »
Some went  the Scorpion Imperio and the Stone Lions. The others took the wiser course and, like all good Clanners, died gloriously or ignominiously in battle.
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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #113 on: 09 April 2019, 07:40:21 »
A lucky few of them can answer us directly as to who the heck the Green Ghosts are. 

Finding them is a different matter.  The Green Ghosts aren't found, they find you.
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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #114 on: 19 September 2019, 20:00:07 »
Does anyone know what the exact color scheme for the zeta prime galaxy is

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #115 on: 19 September 2019, 20:16:07 »
Does anyone know what the exact color scheme for the zeta prime galaxy is

Tne canon paint scheme from CamoSpecs says the Zeta Prime Galaxy...

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... often paints its machines in a solid white scheme, with blue and purple trim to match the Clan insignia (which is proudly displayed on the left side of all units).

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #116 on: 21 September 2019, 06:07:56 »
That was mistake i meant zeta galaxy i got zeta and zeta prime mixed up my bad

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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #117 on: 21 September 2019, 10:28:34 »
Zeta’s paint scheme is a simple dull gray. Distinguished pilots are permitted to add colors and markings of their liking.
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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #118 on: 22 September 2019, 02:28:14 »
Zeta’s paint scheme is a simple dull gray. Distinguished pilots are permitted to add colors and markings of their liking.

What's the source of that one? I've been trying to find a source for Zeta's scheme for ages
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Re: The frozen Plains! Home of the Ice Hellions
« Reply #119 on: 22 September 2019, 09:11:17 »
What's the source of that one? I've been trying to find a source for Zeta's scheme for ages

That's from the Unit Color Compendium and which may be non-canonical.

 

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