How do you select forces?

[NightmareSteel]

BVs? Random roll?  Tonnage?  C-Bills?  Other?

Why?

Just trying to figure out usual economics for the community.  I know I'm OCD and keep economics in mind, but I'm curious about you guys?

[Havock]

BV and 'what I have'.

[Mattlov]

I do BV exclusively at this point for demos.  I'll usually have a few units on each side already in mind already, and see what that BV comes out to.  Then I'll in to get the number of units I want for one side, and figure out the rest of the BV from there.

[Minchandre]

Most of my games are pretty casual, so we sort of eyeball what "seems fair" and factional...but we definitely take BV into account more than tonnage...and I don't think we've ever looked at cost except when someone wants to RP a garrison.

[Saint]

My group does BV2 90% of the time, and a "Grinder" the rest of the time.

Grinders are games where ( aftter a tech level is picked ) each player picks one mech from each weight class, Assault, Heavy, etc. We then randomly roll which mech starts for each player (using a d12) and have at it. It works best for a pick up game of four or more players. :)

[House Davie Merc]

I prefer BV2 WI a set minimum and maximum number of units.

NO FSM .


Lately I've played a lot of games using random mech assignments tables
at several locations and I absolutely hate it .
I inevitably get crap .

I recently played one game where I randomly rolled  a Vulcan VL-2T,Jagermech JM-6S ,Rifleman RFL-3N ,and
a Charger CGR-1A1  .
The Rifleman wound up being my star mech for the game .
My opponent rolled  a Griffin GRF-1N ,Archer ARC-2R ,Warhammer WHM-6K,and a Banshee BNC-3S .

He also won the roll for choosing which side to start on .   ::)

Spare me the "It's all about working with what you got " spiel .

I don't get enough time off work to waste it with match ups like that .

[Havock]

Those were some pretty shitty dice you had there HDM. ;D

[Nibs]

BV, generally, though there is nothing wrong with scenarios that are unbalanced.

[Stormlion1]

I prefer Tonnage, BV is used a lot, and very rarely RAT's because I find it restrictive.

[Deathknight69]

It depends on what's going on. For a Campaign, we go w/ what our char's get. Pick-up games we either go w/ tonnage or BV.

[SteveUK]

BV2 for non campaign games, RAT's when were feeling lazy, a twist on the RAT's is let your opponent roll your mechs and you roll for his.

[Shin_Fenris]

Tonnage. Have never played a BV/BV2 game, but we use a 1.25t modifier for Clantech to keep the IS players from rockin' out the 4 Daishi lances.

[Sartris]

BV.  Barring an early catastrophe here and there we've had good luck with balance. 

[Durandal]

BV2 for most everything unless we are doing level 1 3025 tech games where tonnage is usually good enough so long as no one takes a charger. :P

For pure narrative scenario play it is all done by ear just like with Stargrunt II but the BV2 is taken into account to make sure you don't end up with Daishi vs. Locust scenarios.  Basically whatever makes sense in those cases.

And in campaign play BV2 or C-bills is pretty normal at first, after that it is up to who plays smart and doesn't put all their eggs in one basket.

Never really tried a random force before mostly because we all have our favourites and most people in my group don't have the collection to pull out whatever they roll without proxies.

[Reaver]

I typically do campaigns, so what gets selected is "what I have" meeting "what's assigned to perform this mission."  Sometimes it means that we run into some pretty long odds and simply have to bug out, but then again real life isn't BV-balanced.

If it's a simple one-off game, I'll BV balance + eyeball it.  I've played enough that I can usually figure out in the opening moments whether the fight is fair, and I can tinker with the results to ensure a pretty even fight.

[markhall]

Normally Our group gives out BV and force size so the games can be of an even strength.

I have 5 units I've done up set rosters for and Generally play with them the most.
Using them to pull out my forces on a given day.
As to most of the group.

[Crunch]

We do either BV2 or RAT games with BV2 predominating.

[Demos]

BV and faction.

In campaigning mostly random, tailor-sized by BV

[NightmareSteel]

I prefer BV2 for pickup games, C-Bill for campaign, and factions taken into account.  I just find it difficult to find good faction lists- pretty new to actually playing Battletech, vice being peripherally involved via Crescent Hawks Inception/Revenge, then Mechwarrior series, and the faction tables in TW are way more limited than the stack o' TROs.  Looking forward to the upcoming master lists.

Sounds like BV2 is the majority, with some RAT or Tonnage.

Frankly, I'm not surprised C-Bill is so... ignored.  Who want's to be an accountant?

[Havock]

I pick good looking sculpts, or at least interesting/funny ones. Like the Crab.

Salvaged it/fell from a dropship.

[Slideways]

I normally use Tonnage.  From that, I look at what minis I have and go from there.  I also try to pick appropriate Mechs for certain factions, such as a Panther for House Kurita, etc.  We mostly play a campaign setting so the players roll for availability on the units they purchase/acquire. 
For one off skirmishes we go strictly by tonnage.

[Lyran Archer]

We usually choose a BV limit. I then take as many Archers (2Rs if pre-3052, 5Ws otherwise) as I possibly can and fill in the rest with infantry, vehicle, and/or BattleMech spotters (with TAG and/or NARC if post-3052). I use Archers for massed indirect bombardment.   

[Diamondshark]

I like using my main character set, but has no friends who are good enough to do campaigns, so I just do pick-up matches.  I generally use the same mechs each time for my side, and a different OpFor.  Otherwise, I use the RATs as guidelines for what mechs to expect in a faction, and then pick from the list by BV.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

BV, generally, though there is nothing wrong with scenarios that are unbalanced.

Only up to a point.  When the odds are blatantly stacked on one side, there's really not much that I find terribly enjoyable, regardless of which side I'm on.

[Crunch]

Only up to a point.  When the odds are blatantly stacked on one side, there's really not much that I find terribly enjoyable, regardless of which side I'm on.

Unless the victory conditions take the imbalance into account. The "Desperate Last Stand" scenario can be fun.

[NightmareSteel]

Or the "desperate breakthrough to disable the dropship/nuke/[insert crucial objective here]" scenario.

[Nibs]

Only up to a point.  When the odds are blatantly stacked on one side, there's really not much that I find terribly enjoyable, regardless of which side I'm on.

True. Which is why we think that uneven scenarios should be used sparingly, not consistently.

[Mendou]

As a casual player who played a lot more fifteen years ago, I tend to use tonnage.

[agen2]

Miniatures availability and all theyr possible  variants.

[Iron Mongoose]

Someone here once posted a fun method I've used (though I later saw that it was in use on Saved by the Bell decades ago watching reruns):  if both players, or both sides, are roughly equal in skill and understanding of the game, then have one player pick two forces that they belive to be as even as possible, and then let the second player pick which of the forces to use.  If the first player has confidance in the second, then they will expect to take the lesser force, if there is one, and so they'll do their very best to make things as ballanced as possible.

Generaly, though, since I play most often on MM I use BV, since the program handles it so quickly and effortlessly.

[Diamondshark]

Hmm, that vaguely reminds me of Clan batchall in a way.  I like that, it's a pretty balanced system.

[JPArbiter]

see my friends and I seem to understand each other pretty well, we use the clan Batchall, simply begin the bid the a large force, then counter bid each other to what would be interesting and relativly speedy.  because we know each other so well, we can pick our forces in secret, roll skills randomly and still have a fairly competitive game.

[RangerRob]

BV, What I have, and to a lesser extent... Paint scheme.

[Dread Moores]

BV2 with no FSM. Tonnage and C-bills is a nightmare of mistakes.

[bmcauliffe]

Tonnage with a modifier for tech level on pickup games.

For campaign its player units against likely designs for each house.

Price only comes into effect when the Mercenary Unit is buying new 'Mechs.

[willydstyle]

I like using BV2, but there have been a lot of problems with using it that as a player just getting back into the game, and trying to get my friends into it, have been pretty problematic.

For example, C3 has a pretty hefty BV2 modifier based on the number and value of mechs in the network.  However, this isn't something that's obvious just from adding up the BV2 values from the sheets we've printed from SSW.

Also, I've been playing against at least one guy who still use Heavy Metal Pro rather than SSW, and I'm not sure what BV system it uses, however I suspect that it's BV1 because they seem to consistently have way more stuff than I do.

[Charlie Tango]

Also, I've been playing against at least one guy who still use Heavy Metal Pro rather than SSW, and I'm not sure what BV system it uses, however I suspect that it's BV1 because they seem to consistently have way more stuff than I do.

There's this thing called the Master Unit List you can use to check it...

[Bad_Syntax]

Historically I've played by building units at the start, then playing those subunits for missions after.

For example I may randomly roll up a regular heavy mech regiment.  From there I determine all the company weights, and use faction tables for the appropriate timeframe to determine the makeup of each company.

Then games over the next few months are simply one or more elements, chosen randomly, from that initial force.

Sizes are also random, for example each player could roll 1d3 and get that many lances of their force.  We rarely made it through a whole regiment, but if we did we'd just roll up a new one and continue.

No BV was ever used until victory conditions determined.  If you had 3.56x the BV of your opponent, each kill you got was worth 3.56x the BV of the unit, and each kill the enemy got was 1/3.56, or 0.28x the BV of the unit they killed.  This meant even if you lost all 4 of your mechs when facing 12, if you killed 4 in return you probably won the game.  It was very fulfilling to have a light lance take out an assault mech, even if you lost everything.  The cheers and excitement far outweighed "loosing", and could be far more humiliating for the "winner" :)

At the end of the year VP was calculated, looser bought the winner a new miniature lance of his choosing.

This was a LONG time ago though, but that is how we played it, and it was really fun.

The only other way I've ever played and really enjoyed was a full campaign between a clan galaxy and an AFFS RCT.  The "pick X BV and X number of units" types of battles are just "slugfests" or "die rolling contests", as with completely equal forces the winner is nearly always determined by luck, and not skill, or perhaps skill in picking forces, but not so much in tactics which is why I want to play games.

[Ataraxzy]

Someone here once posted a fun method I've used (though I later saw that it was in use on Saved by the Bell decades ago watching reruns):  if both players, or both sides, are roughly equal in skill and understanding of the game, then have one player pick two forces that they belive to be as even as possible, and then let the second player pick which of the forces to use.  If the first player has confidance in the second, then they will expect to take the lesser force, if there is one, and so they'll do their very best to make things as ballanced as possible.

Generaly, though, since I play most often on MM I use BV, since the program handles it so quickly and effortlessly.

My father called this "You cut, he chooses," usually in reference to cake or pie. 

I like pie.

[Hellraiser]

My local commando has us select forces based on a few things.

#1 = BattleValue
#2 = Faction Lists
#3 = Unit Type Limits
#4 = Number of Units

So for example, 
Attacker =
BV = 4500
Faction = Clan Ghost Bear = Clan General & Clan Ghost Bear & SLDF 2750.
Units = 1-5 w/ No Aerotech.

Defender :
BV = 4500
Faction = Draconis Combine = IS General, Draconis Combine
Units = 2-8 w/ No Aerotech.

Sometimes we have no "goals" and its a slugfest, most the time its some kind of scenario.

I myself try to pick units that I own mini's for but sometimes IWM doesn't have that mini made or I just want to use something different that I don't own.

1-2x a year we play a Tonnage based game for a "King of the Hill" or a "Create your Own Mech" day and you just have to bring something custom at a certain tonnage.

The only time C-Bills is ever used would be a home campaign for mercs.

[Hellraiser]

I like using BV2, but there have been a lot of problems with using it that as a player just getting back into the game, and trying to get my friends into it, have been pretty problematic.

For example, C3 has a pretty hefty BV2 modifier based on the number and value of mechs in the network.  However, this isn't something that's obvious just from adding up the BV2 values from the sheets we've printed from SSW.

Also, I've been playing against at least one guy who still use Heavy Metal Pro rather than SSW, and I'm not sure what BV system it uses, however I suspect that it's BV1 because they seem to consistently have way more stuff than I do.

HMPro originally used BV1, but shortly after BV2 was finalized they offered a Patch to update to BV2.
Its possible he never downloaded it.
I know I did on my desktop but didnt' on my laptop just so I could compare the new & old value of things.

[Demon55]

What ever I think is necessary for the mission.  What ever I can get at other times.  Some times on occasion what the voices in my head tell me to select, which is what I deem necessary.

[Showers]

BV 95% of the time, occasionally by tonnage.

[StoneRhino]

Standard games was always tonnage. Thats a bad idea since 400 tons of clan mechs vs 400 tons of any tech level IS mechs is going to be at a disadvantage. We did that for years, but thats not something I would want to go back to. The few games...welll the games that were planned on being played were using BV2, which is a heck of a lot better then BV1.

RPG games were ran off of cbills. Outside of that the only time money came into play was for infantry using a conversion of 1 toad = x amount of cbills, which gave you something a bit more fair to work with instead of saying a easily killed platoon of foot infantry(back in the days) cost 3 tons because they required 3 tons of cargo to be moved about.

[E. Icaza]

BV2, faction and what I have, generally in that order for PUGs.  For campaigns, I use whatever method we devise, although I'm very much enjoying the Warchest system method. 

[Ian Sharpe]

BV2 with no FSM for 3039+ games, tonnage for 3025/SW tech games. 

[Hellraiser]

BVs? Random roll?  Tonnage?  C-Bills?  Other?

Why?

Just trying to figure out usual economics for the community.  I know I'm OCD and keep economics in mind, but I'm curious about you guys? 

BV w/ Faction Lists & Unit # limits.


RATs are for a quick OpFor, not for home forces.
Tonnage foolish idea in anything but a "Design Your Own Mech of X tonnage" contest.
Cbills are for merc campaigns to track pay, not to choose mechs.

[JoeJones]

I generally use either tonnage (sort of, 'Mech class rather that tonnage. e.g.: 1 light, 1 med, 1 heavy, and 1 assault per side), checking BV2 for balance or else straight BV2.  This is, naturally, modified by which minis I have available.

[Spartan117]

We play a lot of the scenarios from the old scenario packs (Dragon Roars for example)  so we will just use whatever pre-generated forces the book gives us.  Most of the time I am running missions for my brother's mercenary company.  I usually just roll on the faction specific RAT he is fighting at the moment and see what I get.  Sometimes I will re-roll some of the results to make the mission a little more challenging or if the mech does not fit the scenario (Urbanmechs will not be very hard to prevent from "escaping").

We don't use BV or C-bills, but when we do play each other it's usually by tonnage with no customization allowed(Yes it sucks that the Mad Cat D has 2 rear firing SRM 6 Streaks but if you don't like it pick a different mech).  Could be something like we each get 4 mechs can have a combined weight of 150 tons or less.

[Kobold]

I only play in MekWars campaigns, so it is based entirely on BV matching.

[Kealios]

This is a great question because Im coming up with my own campaign system using a hybrid of all sorts of material Ive found on the internet.

This is a non-GM'd campaign, meaning we'll be building our forces to pound on each other, not some randomly-determined OP4 on a RAT or something.

For building our lists, I am thinking of giving each player X C-bills to buy a company of IS-only mechs. We'll use the costs in MegaMek or a Force Faction Table list I found (and can't seem to re-find!).  Im not sure yet if we want to force tonnage maximums for the different lances (ie Recon lance may be up to a certain tonnage, etc) or just "let it flow".

The for actual battles, tracking experience for Mechwarriors, it will be one player fielding a full lance versus another player's lance, and hope you assembled a competent and competitive list, BV-wise, to stand your ground.

We'll likely even throw in random scenario types so that having diversified lances will be to a player's benefit.

During the campaign, C-bills will be used to repurchase Mechs.

[snewsom2997]

Tonnage if any, usually just tailor objectives for whats being used, for example a Lance of Locusts are not going to have to defeat a lance of Marauders to win, but may have to get 3/4 past the Marauders to occupy an objective a map sheet or two away.

[Water Kitsune]

BV for the most part, even in 'unbalanced scenarios.'

Sometimes declare the size of each force (star vs lance vs Level 2, Binary vs. Company, etc) and then try to get them roughly equal in BV, and then just agree that the battle is fair and go to it, if we don't think its fair swap a few mechs around till it becomes a 'fairer' matchup.

[Khymerion]

Cash (if a true campaign), BV2 (if pick up), and what can be brought along on a dropship/jumpship or scattered about defending.

Doesn't matter what the BV says, if there is only an Invader, a Union and a Leopard supporting the assault... well, the does limit things both in terms of Salvage, available supplies, and number of mechs now, doesn't it?  No dropship captain is going half loaded, not if there is a better job on the horizon.  So no 13 mech groups because that leopard is charging premium to ship your understrengthed butt or only 12 are going in ready to go off the Union first encounter due to the last riding in coach (and the pilot feeling sad because there wasn't a proper bunk for him... camp out during the long burn out, jump, and burn back in)...  Not a campaign?  That 13th isn't showing up... can't explain how it got there unless they are the defender.   Sizes of units are thus 4, 12, 36, or a combo of that...  (Clanners get the 5, 10, 15, or 45)...  ASF are under similar constraints.  No ride, no play...

[Zombyra]

For the most part i want to use BV2 to build a battle or scenerio.  We used to use tonnage, but it quickly became obvious what mechs were more effective than others, and surprise, surprise, they're mechs that have consistently high BV2's for their class that let them punch well above their weight.  Using BV you can reasonably take a Jagermech 6-S knowing it only punches as hard as a Wolfhound 1!  We also design our own campaigns, though, and BV is a useful guide for UN-balancing a scenerio on purpose using the terrain to advantage or disadvantage, or letting my players beat up on a bunch of heavier mechs without straight up outgunning them.  Usually i just eyeball it though, so i wouldn't say it's a hardline rule so much as a guideline.

I know, real war isn't balanced.  But the un-fun part of a war game is when you can completely overwhelm your opponent with superior numbers and better equipment.  From a war game perspective it's more fun when the outcome is in doubt.  And yeah, part of the outcome is how lucky you are, but a balanced scenerio forces players to use strategy if they want to tip the odds in their favor rather than just moving the mechs together and smashing each other's faces in.  After all, marching your company out in the middle of an empty field isn't going to be much of a fight for the 20 archers that level your butt while you're standing out in the open.

On a side note, random rolls do have alot of potential play value to them, and we use the following variation:  In a lance v. lance for instance, you random 3 of your mechs, run the BV2, agree on a BV cap and then you get to pick your 4th mech with the points balance.  That way you can still pick one of your favorites and you get to play with a few new toys!

[monty]

BV2 or RAT (rerolling if obviously very unbalanced).

Lately making up larger unit from available models mainly faction specific, usually only 1 per company that isn't faction appropriate, then agreeing BV with opponent & choosing approprite value sub-unit.