Most Overrated Mech?

[Stormfury]

Seems like we have a good few level 1 mechs that fail to live up to a shadow of their fluff. Now, are there any level 2+ mechs that meet the same criteria as those that came before?

The Snake is one.

Built as an anti-Elemental 'Mech, with an LB-10X and 3 Streak SRM-2s.

Not that great at the time, because you couldn't target Battle Armour with Infernos. Not that great now, because you can't load Infernos in Streaks any more.

The Wolf Trap was specifically built to counter the Wolfhound... It was unlikely to manage that against the WLF-1, never mind the upgraded models.

[WONC]

Most overrated 'Mech? Will y'all come at me in my sleep if I say the TimberWolf?

Okay, okay, let's put down the heavy weaponry. I base my statement on my personal experiences, of course, but I've yet to have the T-Wolf do anything for me that one of the more "specialized" (Mad Dog, Stormcrow, and Kit Fox come to mind) Omnis can't do just as well. Of course I tend to play games with ops in them, just for the fun of having a framework to go with, and using something as noteworthy as the T-Wolf tends to land me in more hot water than she's proven worth.

Of course, YMMV.

[Stormfury]

As someone who plays Clan a lot, I'd have to say I'm with you there. The base chassis is sublime, probably the most optimal out there, but the majority of its configurations don't take advantage of what it could do.

[Acolyte]

The Snake is one.

Built as an anti-Elemental 'Mech, with an LB-10X and 3 Streak SRM-2s.

Not that great at the time, because you couldn't target Battle Armour with Infernos. Not that great now, because you can't load Infernos in Streaks any more.

The Wolf Trap was specifically built to counter the Wolfhound... It was unlikely to manage that against the WLF-1, never mind the upgraded models.

Quite true! Of course, if you're using the TacOps BA vulnerability rule.......

   - Shane

[Wotan]

Just one hint for the missing long-range firepower of the Atlas. I always thought it fit well and good for him.
Remember, he was constructed for the SLDF ... means a user of heavy artillery fire. He is build to march in an take out the remaining defenses in close combat.
At that time running battles were rare for the SLDF.

Similar for the Rifleman. Build to stand in the background and fire on ASF. Never meant to go for other mechs.

Both "specialists" have problems with the changed settings after the fall of the SL. ;)

[Molossian Dog IIC]

Most overrated 'Mech? Will y'all come at me in my sleep if I say the TimberWolf?

...

No, in fact I would agree with you. While an excellent allround Mech with optimal weigh/speed ratio, there are way more evil things you can do with the broken clan tech rules.

MAD-3R Marauder. The heat problems on this thing are incredible. Luckily there's the -3M, which I will take in every instance I'm able to.

In the IS the MAD-3R clearly is one of the overrated models. Terrfiyingly thin side torso armour, ammo bomb, conveniently placed in said side torso and inadequate heat dissipation. It is iconic, though, and few mechs can match its lean, deadly look. But if you really want to bring a good top tier heavy, you should switch to the -3M. It brings everything the stock Marauder does and it can use it. It has just the right amount of overheat potential to get the most out of its armament, in my opinion.

There was a time when Marik Mechs and Marik heavies especially, played in the top leagues. (no pun intended) See also the ON1-VA. The Succession Wars were a good time. Might be that we will see such times coming back, now, in 3145.

[Kret69]

It now got me thinking why the most notable icons from the BT universe are being listed as overrated.

I think I have a wrong approach to that.  Anything that was not put in original box will probably be far superior in game terms.

But the constant fight with heat buildup and faults in old Mechs was what made this game fun.  Flawless, fast and perfectly designed machines only make the game last longer.

So from a game perspective, I take it back. These oldtimers are not overrated, they bring me the greatest fun. ;)

[cold1]

Summoner, if you want to know what's wrong look no further than the Grand Summoner in TRO 3145: Clans.  The Falcons fixed what was broken.

Gargoyle Prime;  I love me some Gargoyle but the prime is terrible at stopping anything but vees.  I'll grant you that in Revival and against militia forces (lvl 1 mediums/lights and tanks) it probably decimated some units too.

I think Blood Asp and Timby are borh great chasis but have some underrated configurations.  I could say the same of the Ebon Jaguar.  Those are three of my top 5 omnis too.

[False Son]

Maybe I'm just not remembering, but isn't the Thunderhawk a 3x GR, max armored monster?  I don't see it worrying about infernos or LBX ACs any more than anyone else.

Yes, but the initital variant, the 7X only had 10 single heat sinks, a XL Engine and 3 GRs, 2 of which are torso mounted.  Infernos will make a mockery of such a slow beast and LBX can trigger TACs on the GRs.

[Stormfury]

Not everyone plays with floating crits, and when it was released Infernos only added 6 heat per turn.

On top of that there's the problem of being in range of up to 3 Gauss Rifles if you want to LB-10X it (the only LB weapon available at the time of TR: 3058) or use Infernos against one.

[evilauthor]

Agreed on the MAD-3R.

Also the Atlas. The thing would have been sooo much more dangerous with the simple expedient of dumping the LRMs and arm mounted lasers for a pair of arm mounted PPCs. Turn the CT lasers forward and you suddenly have a very nasty bracket fighter that can spam PPC fire at long range all day while being able to use it's AC/20, SRM-6, and 2 Medium lasers (and possibly both fists!) at short range.

The Rifleman? Aside from the AC/5s and inadequate heat sinkage, this thing only has 6 tons of armor. There are LIGHT mechs that carry more armor than that!

[Natasha Kerensky]

Ares.  Woefully lacking in firepower for a superheavy (with Clantech to boot) and almost as immobile as they come.  There are much cheaper and less vulnerable ways to get initiative bonuses.

Same goes for the Poseidon, minus some additional speed.

Too bad the TRO 3145 series was so handcuffed by Clickytech designs.  "Ultimate 'Mech", my arse.

[Jim1701]

I would definately NOT say the Rifleman.  The topic is most OVERRATED mech.  I don't think anyone EVER overrated the Rifleman.   @p?

The most overrated mech has to be the Marauder 3R.  There is no scenario that makes this thing anywhere near as good as its hype. 

[False Son]

I'm going to go with the Panther.  I know it's fairly good in 3025, but otherwise it hasn't aged well.  The in universe love for the Panther, and almost as bad, the Dragon just puzzle me.  At least the Dragon got "upgraded" to an oddball line mech, the Dragon II.

[Fat Guy]

Definitely the MAD-3R. The gulf between its reputation and its actual battlefield performance is enormous.

 [stupid]

[Wolf Reaper]

The Omega.

The weapons load is nothing special and it is easy to kill with enough firepower due to the super heavy rules that govern it's use.  And it's speed is ridiculous.

[Prince of Darkness]

Ares.  Woefully lacking in firepower for a superheavy (with Clantech to boot) and almost as immobile as they come.  There are much cheaper and less vulnerable ways to get initiative bonuses.

Same goes for the Poseidon, minus some additional speed.

Too bad the TRO 3145 series was so handcuffed by Clickytech designs.  "Ultimate 'Mech", my arse.

Sooooo seconded.

For my running: the Hellstar.  Oh sure, it powerful.  It also can't critseek and it's BV is so high it can't be readily used in-game.

[Beazle]

TRO 3025: WHM-6R Warhammer often finds itself lacking too much armor. As such, it's best employed as a fire support unit where most of its firepower is unused. Hardly the hard hitting heavy as advertised.

If I had a nickel for every time I've legged a Warhammer, I could put them in a sock, spin it around and leg another Warhammer.

[StuartYee]

The Snake is one.

Built as an anti-Elemental 'Mech, with an LB-10X and 3 Streak SRM-2s.

Not that great at the time, because you couldn't target Battle Armour with Infernos. Not that great now, because you can't load Infernos in Streaks any more.

The Wolf Trap was specifically built to counter the Wolfhound... It was unlikely to manage that against the WLF-1, never mind the upgraded models.

Agreed.

I have a hunch (in meta-game terms) that when FASA people designed these mechs for the TROs, that no one ever play tested these designs to see if they lived up to the fluff they were based on.

I have somewhere a Dragon magazine dated from the early 90's where the author of one article said he played several Wolfhound vs Wolftrap duals and the Wolftrap never delivered.

[Wotan]

And you can be sure, that Luthien Armor Works has a fine Lobby to convince anybody within the Combine that the Wolftrap is worth its money. ;)
But to be fair a Wolfhound should at least be carefull if he see a Wolftrap. But who becomes carefull when he see's a Rifleman crossing ?
And if we talk about ill guided procurement and something like the Wolftrap and Snake ... then we should also mention the famous Elemental hunter Fireball. ;)

[False Son]

I'm not sure the Wolf Trap would fall on my list.  It is one of the few mechs I can recall that was intentionally put out of production.  The DCMS hated it so much they stashed them away in warehouses to be hauled out during the Jihad.  And that was only because LAW had been reduced to a crater.  So, well intentioned, certainly.  Overrated?  That would imply someone actually praised it in the first place.

The -2, -2B and Bear Trap are vast improvements.

[mike19k]

As much as I like them not sure if I would say the "Most Overrated" but on the list I would put the Hatchetman and the Axman (especially the 2N). They are a one trick pony, and the 2N does that poorly.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

IMO The Executioner: in MW4 Everyone used them, so when I involved with the actual RPG system I was super happy!!!!! (...I Mean Sad.... :( ) to see their stats: low speed, low armor, permenant jump jets with MASC , and horrible weaponry. The Kodiak was at least passable (some variants good and some bad), and Vlad Ward’s model we acceptable, but the generic chassis was in my opinion was just ‘bleh, kill me now and be done.

[StuartYee]

IMO The Executioner: in MW4 Everyone used them, so when I involved with the actual RPG system I was super happy!!!!! (...I Mean Sad.... :( ) to see their stats: low speed, low armor, permenant jump jets with MASC , and horrible weaponry. The Kodiak was at least passable (some variants good and some bad), and Vlad Ward’s model we acceptable, but the generic chassis was in my opinion was just ‘bleh, kill me now and be done.

I find in general the playability of heavy and assaults in the Mechwarrior series differs from the boardgame.

When I used to play MW3, my favorite was the Annihilator. I'd load it up with weapons, march toward the next objective, sit in the cockpit and hammer away at everything. Playing an Annihilator in the boardgame is not so much fun...so few movement points and almost never a defensive movement mod =(

[Ferrosol]

The Berserker. Only one variant is worth using and that is the C3 every other variant is terrible and all the c3 ensures is that it'll be the first mech to be shot down because 40 point tsm kicks are that much of a threat.

[Papabees]

The Snake is one.

Built as an anti-Elemental 'Mech, with an LB-10X and 3 Streak SRM-2s.

Not that great at the time, because you couldn't target Battle Armour with Infernos. Not that great now, because you can't load Infernos in Streaks any more.

I have to argue that I like the Snake for it's role. As a first fire mech that spreads damage over a point of Elementals it's very useful. Remember that when it was introduced alot of IS weapons did 9 damage or less so plinking them for 2-4 points of damage could make a big difference as the rest of your force started firing at them.

[CrossfirePilot]

I argue for the MAD-6R. Its supposed to be a fearsome machine on the battlefield. However it seems that it really isn't that much of a game changer.  Especially with the torso ammo bomb.

[cold1]

IMO The Executioner: in MW4 Everyone used them, so when I involved with the actual RPG system I was super happy!!!!! (...I Mean Sad.... :( ) to see their stats: low speed, low armor, permenant jump jets with MASC , and horrible weaponry. The Kodiak was at least passable (some variants good and some bad), and Vlad Ward’s model we acceptable, but the generic chassis was in my opinion was just ‘bleh, kill me now and be done.

Blasphemy!!!  ;)

I like the Executioner despite its flaws, but at that weight you either need MASC or jump jets.  Not both.

[JadeHellbringer]

Blasphemy!!!  ;)

I like the Executioner despite its flaws, but at that weight you either need MASC or jump jets.  Not both.

Sums it up nicely- it's hard to justify the large amount of weigh invested in both at once. Imagine what one could do if you dropped the MASC, say, in favor of another ton or so of armor and a couple of more tons of pod space?

Ah well. Hardly the most flawed of the 3050 Omnimechs, is it?  ;D

[verybad]

The Hellstar. It's ugly.